View Full Version : Sleeping Pads: This? That? Or the Other?
Technology seems to have improved on my current inventory of under-sleeping bag supports. My grand kids live in Boone, NC and we go visit at Christmas. I anticipate overnight+ trips with them in the future. I know what to expect in late December-early January. I think it is time to buy something new.
Current:
9 tube High Loft air mattress. 3/4 length. Heavy. Not exactly durable. Comfy. R-Value = 0
Generic, blue CCF 3/4 length pad. Bulky. OK insulation. R-Value = ?
The next two are probably from the mid-90s:
Therm-A-Rest Ridgerest, full length. R-Value = 2?
Therm-A-Rest Ultra Light, full length. 20x72x1. R-Value = 2?
Considering:
Therm-A-Rest ProLite Plus. 20x72x1.5. R-Value = 3.8. 1 1/2 pounds. $110. USA
Therm-A-Rest NeoAir All Season. 20x72x2.5. R-Value = 4.9. 1 lb. 3 oz. $150. USA
Just for the sake of argument:
Big Agnes Q-Core SL Mummy. 20x72x3.25 or 3.5 (internet sources differ). R-Value = 5. 1 lb. $160. not-USA
The above new pads all improve on my current Therm-A-Rest pad for thickness, weight (lighter) & R-Value. My current assortment of foam pads can be used with any of the above if it is really cold or the snow pack is deep.
The ProLite Plus scores high marks for known durability (my current T-A-R pad has never let me down), ease of use (no inflation required) & price. It looses marks for thickness & R-Value.
The NeoAir All Season & Q-Core SL Mummy are pretty much a toss up on weight, price & R-Value. The NeoAir pulls ahead slightly on price & I really like to by American made. The Big Agness pad is 3 ozs. lighter and thicker. Durability is the one question mark with both inflatables.
Am I missing something?
What say Ye?
Wayne
Heading to REI with his Spring Discount coupon soon. :cool:
This chart has good R-values listed for common pad models. You can extrapolate the data for other models fairly easily. For example, an REI blue foamer is 1.4..so other brands are probably similar. Though the 1990s RidgeRest is a different color and named slighlty different than the 2012 equivalent, I suspect is not too far off the SOLite RidgeRest listed at 2.8. And so on.
http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/
Personally, I don't like inflatable pads and prefer foam pads. I use a blue foamer for three season use, a Z-Lite for shoulder season. I do steal my wife's NeoAir and combined it a Z-lite for winter backpacking.
OTOH, Mrs Mags loves her NeoAir for backpacking.
Everyone is different (http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/). :)
Thanks Paul. That list led me to my short list of 3 pads above.
Which NeoAir model do you borrow from your wife for winter use? I could add a Z-Rest for winter use as well.
I'm thinking that I should also consider the Therm-A-Rest NeoAir Xtherm, if they have one at the store in Houston.
I will perform an in person NeoAir crinkle-noise test.
Did i mention that I am a side sleeper? That thread was started on my birthday and has gotten a lot of replies.
Wayne
FatHead64
03-23-2013, 21:17
Thanks Paul. That list led me to my short list of 3 pads above.
Which NeoAir model do you borrow from your wife for winter use? I could add a Z-Rest for winter use as well.
I'm thinking that I should also consider the Therm-A-Rest NeoAir Xtherm, if they have one at the store in Houston.
I will perform an in person NeoAir crinkle-noise test.
Did i mention that I am a side sleeper? That thread was started on my birthday and has gotten a lot of replies.
Wayne
I recently got an Xtherm - haven't been out with it yet, but the crinkling was not as bad as comments had led me to believe.
I recently got an Xtherm - haven't been out with it yet, but the crinkling was not as bad as comments had led me to believe.
That is good to know.
Wayne
Which NeoAir model do you borrow from your wife for winter use?
The original version in a size "short". Mrs Mags is only 5'3". For me (at 5'6"), the short version works well when combined with the z-rest.
I like the Exped, for all seasons.. http://www.rei.com/search?query=sleeping+pads+by+exped
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/SubCategory___40000000228_200406459
+1 on the Exped. Got one last summer and enjoyed the best sleep I've ever experienced backpacking. Weighs practically nothing and withstood sites with rocks and roots in Maine
moose717
03-24-2013, 08:57
For winter backpacking in Harriman State Park, NY (first winter backpack!) I used my Exped 7 downmat. It worked great. I don't have the pump, just the bag you "fill up" with air and use to inflate. Another person with us had the pump, but I can fill my mat in under 2 minutes using the "bag". It stuffs relatively small and weighs under 1lb. For 3 season, when I usually bp, I use Wallyworld blue mat that I scored to fold up. Works good too.
moose717
03-24-2013, 09:00
BTW ... I got the downmat specifically for winter backpacking ... X-mas present and will probably bring it bp in other seasons. It's just so comfortable!
k2basecamp
03-24-2013, 10:53
I just got a nemo astro insulated and love it.
Moose717,
Thanks for the specific Exped model and observations. I must have overlooked the DownMat. The Exped SynMat UL 7 was way behind the NeoAir and Q-Core pads on my list above.
Something is amiss. REI spec.s page for the Exped DownMat 7:
http://www.rei.com/product/780362/exped-downmat-7-air-pad-with-pump
The weight is not even close to the 1 lb. 3 oz. quoted by Moose717. Are there other models that REI doesn't carry? No worries. The DownMat7 is not stocked in Houston. There is a DownMat Lite 5. Hmmmm....
A Therm-A-Rest NeoAir Model ? (T.B.D.) is still the leader in the clubhouse. Pending Crinkle-Noise test.
Wayne
...
Sleeping pad: Whereas I have found the perfect tent and quilt for me I have not found the perfect sleeping pad but only the best compromise available. Close cell foam pads are great because they are cheap, reliable and relatively lightweight. But they have two downsides: They are not very comfortable. This does not really matter very much on short trips, but sleeping on it for months on end I want a bit more comfort. Even more important, cell foam pads are too bulky. I find it hard to fit a foam pad into my pack and always have to strap it onto it. Not very practical, especially when you have to bushwhack or crawl under obstacles. The pad is always in the way. So I moved one step up towards being more comfortable and started using Thermarest Prolite pads. A short one for 3 season use and a regular length Prolite Plus for fall and winter. So far I have not found a better solution although the TAR Prolite series (or any other similar inflatable pad) comes with one built in defect: After about 6 months of constant use it will start delaminating. Luckily this is covered under TAR's life time warranty and this is also the only reason why I stick with TAR. The delaminted pads are usually exchanged without much hassle and there are TAR dealers worldwide. Despite the fact that I don't even use a groundsheet underneath my tent I have never had a puncture in a TAR Prolite in all my hiking career. Several years after the NeoAir series had come out I was finally lured into buying one myself, a NeoAir All Season. This turned out to be one of the biggest mispurchases in my whole hiking career. After only a couple of weeks of use I got my first puncture which was very difficult to detect and repair in winter conditions. This frustrating experience confirmed my belief that the NeoAir series is still too delicate for real long term use. The conclusion for me is that a robust inflatable pad like a TAR Prolite is, although far from being perfect, the best compromise between weight, bulk, comfort, price and durability.
This one opposing view has me wondering for sure. I originally bought my current Therm-A-Rest pad after air mattresses left me sleeping on rocks out west.
Pondering in East Texas.
Wayne
People love their Neoairs - I use one myself - but if you hike much you'll find someone who will never trust one again.
People love their Neoairs - I use one myself - but if you hike much you'll find someone who will never trust one again.
True. Like tire debates on car forums & RAW vs. JPEG flame wars on camera forums.
Compounded by a faint voice way in the back of my brain that is saying, "Use what you have. It ain't broke. Don't fix it."
Wayne
I've been watching this thread because I, too, am in the market for a new sleeping pad. I don't want to hijack Venchka's thread, but I've narrowed my choices down to the following three (all size 20"x72" for width and length).
NeoAir Xtherm
Big Agnes Q Core SL
Exped SynMat 7
On a strictly numbers based game, the Xtherm is the clear winner being the lightest (15oz) with the highest R value (5.7). The only problems are the collapsing sides that some people have complained about, effectively reducing the perceived width of the pad, and the crinkly noise that some reviews have made out to be quite detracting. The width issues could be negated by purchasing a Large, but not without adding a few oz.
Venchka, I'm not sure where you're getting the R value for the Q Core SL but Big Agnes estimates it to be at 4.5. REI is reporting it at 5 on their website. To be honest, I'm leaning to the side of 4.5 simply to be on the cautious side. The regular Q Core (non SL) is estimated at an R value of 5, however. Maybe that's the one you were looking at? Either way, at 3.5" it's sure to be one of the more comfortable pads.
Last for me is the SynMat 7. It's the middle of the road in terms of thickness and warmth (2.8"/4.9) but is the heaviest (31oz). By all reports, Exped makes some of the most comfortable mats on the market, but the weight and thickness of the Q Core SL are attractive to me as a side/stomach sleeper. If it is dramatically more comfortable than the other two, then I wouldn't mind hauling the extra weight.
Seeing that the nearest REI is 2 hours away from me, it's hard for me to just take a trip to an REI to try them out, but I will be getting out to REI this Friday to check out, hopefully, all of them and will report back. Hopefully I can come up with a ranking for you guys (and a decision for myself so I can use my 20% coupon!).
swofford
03-24-2013, 18:45
I just retured the Big Agnes Q Core SL. My husband and I both had one and they both lost air within a couple of hours. We have decided to go with NeoAir Xtherm. It is half the weight and seems to be easier to get the air out of the pad when packing up.
Just the opposite of swofford. I returned the NeoAir, being too noisy for me and irritating to others in the area. No issues with the the Big Agnes Q Core SL, other than the 20x72 is supposed to be 17 ounces, and is really 19 ounces. 15 puffs to inflate, and no issues deflating. It is VERY comfortable, and oozes heat while laying on it.
moose717
03-25-2013, 16:08
Clarification on the Exped downmat 7 -- it's the UL and weighs just over a lb not under a lb. Sorry for any confusion :)
I think your numbers are off a bit.
Exped Downmat7, 2.8", 32 oz., 5.7R; Exped Synmat UL7 2.8", 16.2 0z., 3.1R.
From REI site.
Just a clarification.
A clarification from me RE: Big Agnes Q-Core SL...
I am looking at the Mummy version. It fits my tent better. Slightly lighter than the rectangular model.
Specs. from the Big Agnes web description:
20" x 72" x 3 1/4" thick
16 oz. (1 pound)
R-Value: 4.5
Temp. Range: 15°
Price: $159.95
Meanwhile, the Minister of the Treasury & Keeper of the Purse Strings (a.k.a. Mrs. Wayne) has a different plan. Start my 2014 NOBO Section Hike on the AT with the barely ever used Therm-A-Rest pad that I currently own. If it isn't up to the task, replace it at my first opportunity. That would probably be Franklin, NC. She definitely believes in the Redneck Maxim: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Wayne
moose717
03-25-2013, 17:25
Hi jrwiesz -- not sure if your talking about my numbers, but I got my mat from campsaver and here are the specs for a size small, taken directly from their specs page:
Brand
Exped
Weight
14.8 oz / 420 g (XS); 18.7 oz / 530 g (S); 20.5 oz / 580 g (M); 26.5 oz / 750 g (LW)
Packed Size
9 x 3.5 in / 23 x 9 cm (XS); 9 x 4 in / 23 x 10 cm (S); 9 x 4.3 in / 23 x 11 cm (M); 10.6 x 4 in / 27 x 10 cm (LW)
Pad Type
Self Inflating Pads
R-Value
5.9
Material
Ultralight polyester and an absolutely airtight and moisture resistant TPU film
18.7 ounces is just a little over a pound :) to me.
MI was referring to the #s oroy38 posted on the SynMat7, he was also using the MED size mat, so I referred to them in MED.
As I have learned, the only weight that counts is the weight as shown on Mrs. Wayne's digital scale at home.
Wayne
As I have learned, the only weight that counts is the weight as shown on Mrs. Wayne's digital scale at home.
Wayne
You mean, concerning a new pad in your future, you'll have to wait.:D:D
MI was referring to the #s oroy38 posted on the SynMat7, he was also using the MED size mat, so I referred to them in MED.
Your numbers correspond to the SynMat UL7, not the standard SynMat 7 that I was referring to.
Looking back to Exped's website, I was off about the weight anyway. Not sure where I got the 31oz figure. Exped SynMat 7 in M weighs in at 29.5oz according to Exped's website.
takethisbread
03-26-2013, 10:56
I am not a huge fan of the synmat.
Theoretically it is great, but it's comfort/weight ratio isn't great. Like Mags, I prefer foam mattresses. Side sleeping seems better on them for sure . The air mattresses do offer a small pack space attraction and little weight.
I've never had a durability issues with our neo air or big Agnes air core inflatable mattress . And we are rough on our gear. I have sampled the q core new quilted style mattress and I found it to be the best of the air matress's
I just picked up the Big Agnes QSL. I only had it out 3 nights so far, but it is very comfortable, warm, light and packable.
I don't know who else has seen it, but I just stumbled upon the Exped SynMat UL9. 9cm thick, 21.9oz, R value of 6.0 for a size M. That's actually a pretty attractive set of numbers!
I don't know who else has seen it, but I just stumbled upon the Exped SynMat UL9. 9cm thick, 21.9oz, R value of 6.0 for a size M. That's actually a pretty attractive set of numbers!
If you read the small print, it doesn't come with the nice pump bag or built in pump. Extra $$s and ounces to put it on an even playing field with other pads that include a pump of some sort.
Wayne
If you read the small print, it doesn't come with the nice pump bag or built in pump. Extra $$s and ounces to put it on an even playing field with other pads that include a pump of some sort.
Wayne
I did see that, and it is unfortunate, but I'm pretty sure it's mouth inflatable (maybe I'm wrong). The moisture issue isn't a huge deal until you hit colder temps, but I'm just speculating.
I did, however, make it out to REI today to test out some pads. I tested the SynMat 7, the NeoAir Xlite, and the Big Agnes Q Core. The SynMat was actually the most comfortable. Its larger tubes on the sides actually made the pad feel wider than the Q Core. The Xlite felt the narrowest. It was rather crinkly, but not as bad as some reviews made it seem. I can't imagine the Xtherm being much worse.
For overall comfort, in my opinion, the SynMat pretty much blew everything else out of the water, at the expense of weight.
rockymountainhigh
03-31-2013, 02:34
+3 for the q core. Worth it
And now for the bad news...
I finally put pencil to paper and came up with the following information.
Current sleeping pad-
Therm-a-Rest 20 x 72 x 1. 1 lb. 12 oz. R = 2.2 (estimate based on current models)
My short list of contenders:
Therm-a-Rest ProLite 20 x 72 x 1. 1 lb. 0 oz. R = 2.2. $100. Weight loss = $133/pound
Therm-a-Rest ProLite Plus 20 x 72 x 1.5 1 lb. 6 oz. R = 3.8. Weight loss = $293/pound
Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Xtherm 20 x 72 x 2.5. 15 oz. R = 5.7. Weight loss = $234/pound
Therm-a-Rest NeoAir All Season 20 x 72 x 2.5. 1 lb. 3 oz. R = 4.9. Weight loss = $267/pound
Big Agnes Q-Core SL Mummy 20 x 72 x 3.25. 1 lb. 0 oz. R = 4.5. Weight loss = $213/pound.
Exped DownMat UL 7M 20 x 72 x 2.8. 1 lb. 6 oz. R = 5.9. Weight loss = $ 587/pound.
The jury will be out on this verdict for awhile.
Wayne
You should definitely give the different styles of mats a try at the store if possible. In spite of the Q-Core being thicker, I found that the Exped SynMat style pads were the most comfortable by far. The Therm-a-Rest NeoAir style pad was certainly crinkly enough to be irritating. It's a difficult choice, for sure, but i'm starting to lean in the direction that a good night of sleep is more important than shaving a couple of ounces.
Best of luck with your decision! I know I'm having a hell of a time with mine!
TheYoungOne
04-04-2013, 15:53
Just the opposite of swofford. I returned the NeoAir, being too noisy for me and irritating to others in the area. No issues with the the Big Agnes Q Core SL, other than the 20x72 is supposed to be 17 ounces, and is really 19 ounces. 15 puffs to inflate, and no issues deflating. It is VERY comfortable, and oozes heat while laying on it.
I understand wanting to be as lightweight as possible but I really don't like the Neo Air pad because of the "Crinkle, Crinkle" of that potato chip bag material.