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moldy
03-25-2013, 09:02
Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 09:04
if you choose to hike long distance then you carry your trash and dump it in a town. pretty simple

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:09
I am a believer of what you say but from my experience the trash container in even remote area normally turn to a trash disposal place of the neighborhood sooner or later. I carry my trash as long as necessary to the next spot but I really hate doing it and like you believe there should be some solutions to it.

Chaco Taco
03-25-2013, 09:10
I have no problem carrying trash and think on the AT, there are plenty of trash recepticals. 3 days of carrying it? Thats it? I have forgotten to empty food bag trash bags older than that. Im still of the opinion that throwing anything into a fire ring not a good thing. Just my opinion

Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help.

Tuckahoe
03-25-2013, 09:13
Umm yeah, I dont see this as an issue. The hiker that brings the packaging in, should hike the trash out to a suitable point of disposal. Asking for a maintaining club to set up trash disposal along the trail or at trail heads is just asking for trouble and a mess.

The best solution is that hikers should manage their packaging and trash more effectively.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:18
if you choose to hike long distance then you carry your trash and dump it in a town. pretty simple

"Practically" the trails are getting trashier and trashier every year that means that the current law ( which is not a bad one) is not 100% practiced these days ( OP saw it by himself). So although this current law is doable and moral but hikers has started to get rid of their trash after certain days and before the next town. You are realistic Lone Wolf, I am pragmatic , that is our difference I guess.

Sly
03-25-2013, 09:21
If you can carry 10-15 pounds of food you should be able to carry 1-2 pounds of trash.

Most towns are less than 75 miles apart, so there goes the trash barrel in the woods for lame hikers that expect volunteers to carry it away solution!

Chaco Taco
03-25-2013, 09:22
"Practically" the trails are getting trashier and trashier every year that means that the current law ( which is not a bad one) is not 100% practiced these days ( OP saw it by himself). So although this current law is doable and moral but hikers has started to get rid of their trash after certain days and before the next town. You are realistic Lone Wolf, I am pragmatic , that is our difference I guess.
Having more trash cans does not mean hikers will use them, they will continue to burn it and stuff it down privies or throw it in the woods or leave it on the side of the trail, bury it, whatever. If you cannot carry in and carry out, then stay home. Its not a trash issue, its a people issue.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:25
Having more trash cans does not mean hikers will use them, they will continue to burn it and stuff it down privies or throw it in the woods or leave it on the side of the trail, bury it, whatever. If you cannot carry in and carry out, then stay home. Its not a trash issue, its a people issue.

Yes , Isn't it still an issue?

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:28
I am not saying the trash container is the solution but there is some.

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 09:35
I love burning trash... I think it comes from growing up in NH, where all the dump sites were on fire all the time. I'm not saying that's a good solution but it's what I grew up seeing. I like to burn my paper trash in the camp fire, the rest of it I pack out. I don't really mind....

FatMan
03-25-2013, 09:35
Hikers that are going to pack it out are going to do so regardless of whether there are trash containers every 3 days or they have to carry it to the next town. Those that don't pack it out aren't going to just because there is a trash can every three days. I agree it would be more convenient for those that do pack it out, but I doubt it would do much to help with trash on the trail. Case and point is Springer to Woody Gap where there are trash cans. Yet there is plenty of trash all over in that section at campsites, shelters, and on the trail itself during the thru hike season. Some thru hikers are either poorly educated on pack it in - pack it out or simply just feel entitled to leave trash behind. After all, the maid will come by soon.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:39
Hikers that are going to pack it out are going to do so regardless of whether there are trash containers every 3 days or they have to carry it to the next town. Those that don't pack it out aren't going to just because there is a trash can every three days. I agree it would be more convenient for those that do pack it out, but I doubt it would do much to help with trash on the trail. Case and point is Springer to Woody Gap where there are trash cans. Yet there is plenty of trash all over in that section at campsites, shelters, and on the trail itself during the thru hike season. Some thru hikers are either poorly educated on pack it in - pack it out or simply just feel entitled to leave trash behind. After all, the maid will come by soon.
Very clever input and observation FatMan.

Sly
03-25-2013, 09:41
Some thru hikers are either poorly educated on pack it in - pack it out or simply just feel entitled to leave trash behind. After all, the maid will come by soon.

Without labeling any specific group, wouldn't it be safer to say "some hikers at the start of the trail..... ?

Old Hiker
03-25-2013, 09:44
My favorite is the trash can that is partially full with trash all around it. I guess each trail club is going to have to designate a personal trash person for each hiker so the hiker is not inconvenienced by having to carry some trash. Not it!

You carry your trash out. A large gallon zip-loc works. The quart sized zip-loc the food came in works. A spare zip-loc if the first one leaks works. Laziness doesn't work.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 09:47
Without labeling any specific group, wouldn't it be safer to say "some hikers at the start of the trail..... ?

Not only it is safer to say but It is closer to the reality.

leaftye
03-25-2013, 09:49
If you have too much trash, then you need to work on repackaging your supplies before you get back on the trail.

In any case, I don't see this as a problem, not even on the PCT where the towns are further apart.

Lyle
03-25-2013, 09:53
Non-issue for me. Would it be nice? yeah. Would I take advantage if they were there? yeah. However, simple trash cans would attract critters of all types and they would pull it apart and make a mess. Critter-proof containers are expensive. Money better spent in other areas.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 09:57
this is the year of snivelin' and whinin' about every little thing. hikers need to toughen up. it ain't that hard out there

Pedaling Fool
03-25-2013, 09:58
I don't believe that most people realize how tough it would be to provide trash receptacles all along the AT. It's not something you can just put along the trail at every road crossing, you got to go check it periodically, all the time, I mean all the time...think about it.

Then you got the issue of locals dumping stuff in there, not just simple trash that hikers produce, then you got the brainless LNT types that think just because there is a trash receptacle every X-miles that they need to dump food waste in there, so now you need a heavy, bulky animal/bear-proof container. Guys just dump the crap in the woods :rolleyes:

Most every one hits town every 3-5 days, just pack it out. I typically stay out longer and my trash I pack out is very small, mostly because I plan ahead when I resupply and discard most of the trash at that time.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:07
I don't believe that most people realize how tough it would be to provide trash receptacles all along the AT. It's not something you can just put along the trail at every road crossing, you got to go check it periodically, all the time, I mean all the time...think about it.

Then you got the issue of locals dumping stuff in there, not just simple trash that hikers produce, then you got the brainless LNT types that think just because there is a trash receptacle every X-miles that they need to dump food waste in there, so now you need a heavy, bulky animal/bear-proof container. Guys just dump the crap in the woods :rolleyes:

Most every one hits town every 3-5 days, just pack it out. I typically stay out longer and my trash I pack out is very small, mostly because I plan ahead when I resupply and discard most of the trash at that time.
So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ?

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 10:09
So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ?

it's never been a "problem". just carry your crap to a town

max patch
03-25-2013, 10:11
So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ?

There's no problem. If you can carry trash INTO the woods then you carry trash OUT of the woods.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:14
it's never been a "problem". just carry your crap to a town

Come on man, I have not hiked the AT but many people say the trails have started to show the signs of trashing here or there. If it is not a problem then what are we talking about here.??

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:16
There's no problem. If you can carry trash INTO the woods then you carry trash OUT of the woods.

Max patch the question is this: Do majority of hikers carry trash out or not?

Pedaling Fool
03-25-2013, 10:19
So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ?The problem is over stated. The only place where there is trash is at the shelters and most of it is because people are not just lazy, but also think they are helping fellow hikers by leaving stuff for them, sort of like a shelter is a big hiker box. Putting the burden on the clubs will not address this. The trail itself is not trashed.

Tuckahoe
03-25-2013, 10:21
Come on man, I have not hiked the AT but many people say the trails have started to show the signs of trashing here or there. If it is not a problem then what are we talking about here.??

Really? You have not hiked the AT, but believe it to be trashed, or that its showing signs of being trashed? Do you know how silly that sounds?

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 10:23
Come on man, I have not hiked the AT but many people say the trails have started to show the signs of trashing here or there. If it is not a problem then what are we talking about here.??

people are the problem. trash ain't. maybe the ATC shouldn't promote/encourage thru hiking

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 10:24
Come on man, I have not hiked the AT but many people say the trails have started to show the signs of trashing here or there. If it is not a problem then what are we talking about here.??

It'a a problem, alright.... Apparently trail angels, ridgerunners and other trail maintenance groups haul trash, out of the woods, all the time. So what I think the point is, the same folks that tend to throw trash out the window of their car, for instance, will not dispose of their trash properly no matter what is provided for them along the trail.

Pedaling Fool
03-25-2013, 10:26
Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help.


So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ?

BTW, even the OP is asking for this service based mostly on convenience, but the idea of them burning their plastic trash is the part that I mean when I say it's an overstated problem. Most hikers visit towns every 3-5 days, they're not buring their plastics before that. I don't believe my trash I packed out every weighed more than a few ounces, and I NEVER burn plastics and I stay out generally twice as long as the typical 3-5 days.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:28
When I came to Canada and got my first poppy I thought there are two groups of people regarding cleaning after their pet , the group that cleans after his/her pet and the group who don't.

But soon I found the third group who clean after their pet when somebody is watching them or if they have not forgotten to bring a nylon bag with them. They are not that scarce to be honest. I carry some extra bags to offer them when possible.

Now there are parks and places that you can find a free bag in some boxes to clean after your dog if you have forgotten it. Is it the ultimate solution ? No but other than education which needs time it is a temporary solution to keep the parks clean and it does not cost too much.

max patch
03-25-2013, 10:30
Really? You have not hiked the AT, but believe it to be trashed, or that its showing signs of being trashed? Do you know how silly that sounds?

One of the most prolific posters on WB has never even set foot on the trail. Anyone can say anything.

mcstick
03-25-2013, 10:32
Max patch the question is this: Do majority of hikers carry trash out or not?




The answer is yes

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 10:35
The answer is yes

I agree with this statement.... others (including hikers) seem to pick up the slack for ones that don't pack in and out.

Sly
03-25-2013, 10:38
people are the problem. trash ain't. maybe the ATC shouldn't promote/encourage thru hiking

Ummm.... what does "thru-hiking" have to do with it? Even day hikers have trash.

Tuckahoe
03-25-2013, 10:39
One of the most prolific posters on WB has never even set foot on the trail. Anyone can say anything.

Reminds me of so many of those on other hot button issues... they know nothing about an issue, they are not familiar with the topic, but they have an opinion, believe there is a problem, and that they are the expert to fix it.

bear bag hanger
03-25-2013, 10:41
Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help.

Right you are, you're hired! We expect results before our next hike!

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:42
Really? You have not hiked the AT, but believe it to be trashed, or that its showing signs of being trashed? Do you know how silly that sounds?

I love to know how silly that sounds , honest question for every one reading this comment,

Kookork
03-25-2013, 10:51
One of the most prolific posters on WB has never even set foot on the trail. Anyone can say anything.

I have never said anywhere in this forum that I hiked AT, ever and you knew that before. I have been a member of this forum on a and off for 17 months and my post count is under 600 . Have you looked at the post numbers of yours and mine just for a second and then posted this comment.?

max patch
03-25-2013, 10:53
I have never said anywhere in this forum that I hiked AT, ever and you knew that before. I have been a member of this forum on a and off for 17 months and my post count is under 600 . Have you looked at the post numbers of yours and mine just for a second and then posted this comment.?

I was not referring to you.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 11:05
I was not referring to you.

Sorry, I jumped the gun. Now I remember who you are referring too.

leaftye
03-25-2013, 11:15
I was not referring to you.

It could be me. :) I have freely admitted several times that I'm a PCT man. In any case, it doesn't matter. Carrying trash isn't a big deal. Some people are going to carry it, and some people won't no matter what's available to them. Near my house there's a short 1.5 mile round trip trail up a mountain and back. There are trash cans at the top and bottom of the mountain. That means it's only 3/4ths of a mile from one trash can to the next. It generally takes people only 20-30 minutes to walk up to the trash can at the top. Even with that very short distance there's still trash all over the trail. Is the solution another trashcan half way up the mountain, what about 2 trash cans on the way up, or four, or five? Wait, there's still trash in the parking lot even though the trashcans are less than 30 yards away. Maybe the parking lot needs more trash cans. Trash cans every 5 yards. That's the answer.

max patch
03-25-2013, 11:21
It could be me. :)

Not you. 3,000 posts? You're still a rookie. :)

I'm not going to name the individual; I've stopped reading his posts about a year ago and for all I know maybe he has hit the AT for a mile or two in that time.

MDSection12
03-25-2013, 11:24
Wow. I can't believe this discussion even exists. I was out on the AT this weekend and saw where someone had defecated near the trail... Maybe we could solve that problem by putting in more privies? I noticed parts of the trail were rocky as well, maybe we could pave the trail? While we're paving it why not make it wide enough for cars so I don't have to walk? Also carrying food is quite inconvenient, could we put in some restaurants?

Kookork
03-25-2013, 11:30
Wow. I can't believe this discussion even exists. I was out on the AT this weekend and saw where someone had defecated near the trail... Maybe we could solve that problem by putting in more privies? I noticed parts of the trail were rocky as well, maybe we could pave the trail? While we're paving it why not make it wide enough for cars so I don't have to walk? Also carrying food is quite inconvenient, could we put in some restaurants?

So lazy people will trash the trails no matter what? And we LNT hikers should just watch and ignore the problem?

Sara
03-25-2013, 11:40
Wow. I can't believe this discussion even exists. I was out on the AT this weekend and saw where someone had defecated near the trail... Maybe we could solve that problem by putting in more privies? I noticed parts of the trail were rocky as well, maybe we could pave the trail? While we're paving it why not make it wide enough for cars so I don't have to walk? Also carrying food is quite inconvenient, could we put in some restaurants?

Escalators would also be nice... :p

leaftye
03-25-2013, 11:41
So lazy people will trash the trails no matter what? And we LNT hikers should just watch and ignore the problem?

Must there only be two possible solutions? Must only one solution be applied at a time, and only if it's 100% effective?

Kookork
03-25-2013, 11:45
Must there only be two possible solutions? Must only one solution be applied at a time, and only if it's 100% effective?

No, the number of solutions does not matter. The practicality and effectiveness matters.

Rasty
03-25-2013, 11:52
If you have packed with a IQ level of 45 or more then 10 pounds of food should produce about 1/2 a pound of garbage over a 5 day period. :p

garlic08
03-25-2013, 12:01
If you have packed with a IQ level of 45 or more then 10 pounds of food should produce about 1/2 a pound of garbage over a 5 day period. :p

Yeah, I just don't get the problem. On a recent 160-mile hike between resupplies, all my trash fit into the empty peanut butter jar. The area was under a burn ban, too. The solution is called "buy bulk food and repackage it into reusable ziplocks." Think about your trash when you pack. It's not that hard.

Seatbelt
03-25-2013, 12:09
While hiking different trails in different states and observing the trail conditions, including trash condititons, I have been impressed with the condition of the AT so far (400+miles). Especially, considering the huge volume of traffic.

There will always be trash on trails, in parking lots, along the roadside, etc. No way to completely stop it.

MDSection12
03-25-2013, 12:13
So lazy people will trash the trails no matter what?

Yes, absolutely.


And we LNT hikers should just watch and ignore the problem?

When did I say that? I try to pack out trash I find as much as possible, though I admit some things I just don't want to put in my pack. My point wasn't that we do nothing, it was that we can't expect volunteer groups, whose resources are already spread thin, to fix a problem that will never truly be 'fixed' (see above) anyway.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 12:15
Ummm.... what does "thru-hiking" have to do with it? Even day hikers have trash.

Ummmm.... 30 hikers a day hitting georgia who have never hiked before...

WingedMonkey
03-25-2013, 12:20
Fire pits are for wood, not trash.

Burning food or refuse is even forbidden in some National Forests. All National Forest which the Florida Trail passes through forbids burning trash and food as part of its bear safety rules.

prain4u
03-25-2013, 12:21
At one level, would it be nice to have conveniently located trash cans located at convenient intervals? Sure! Would people use them? Yes!

On the other hand--would people misuse such trash cans? Yes. Would animals cart stuff off and make messes? You bet! Would it be costly to install the "right" containers and a pain in the butt to maintain and empty. Definitely! Who is going to have to pay for these containers and maintain them? The already overburdened trail clubs and trail maintainers.

All of this cost, effort and inconvenience to the clubs and trail maintainers--just so a few hikers won't be inconvenienced. (And, after all of this effort and cost are expended, people will still make messes on the trail and throw their trash where ever they want).

I have a better idea. You pack it in. You pack it out. Carry your trash to town--and just be glad and extremely thankful that towns, park districts, and businesses in those towns are willing to take your trash and dispose of it for you at no charge.

leaftye
03-25-2013, 12:23
No, the number of solutions does not matter. The practicality and effectiveness matters.

So the solution has to be 100% effective or forget about it? In that case, my plan for trash cans every 5 yards is the way to go.

Trash cans is a nice idea on its face, but the problems that others have posted are serious. It's a lot of work for forest service employees and volunteers to take care of. Is the trail already in such great shape that extra resources can be siphoned off to take care of the trash cans? Putting it by the roads seems like it'd make emptying them easier, but those are likely to be abused by people driving by. On a hike last year I witnessed someone pull up to a trash can and throw trash at it. They missed. They were less than 5 yards away on an empty road, and they couldn't be bothered to get out to put their trash inside the trashcan. The animal issue is another big problem, especially if people don't close the trashcans properly. Then there's the issue of money.

Educating hikers probably wouldn't work for the kind of people that are willing to dump their trash in the forest.

Beating litterers would be awfully satisfying, and would probably work, but the prison time for this solution probably isn't worth it.

Volunteers, rangers and hikers already carry out litter. It isn't 100% effective, but it's something.

How about another solution that also wouldn't be 100% effective? Getting places like REI to see ziploc-style bags with new super fancy and instructive packaging that extols the virtues of repackaging food so that there's less trash to carry out. It'd be like selling snow to an eskimo, but I bet REI could pull it off.

Rasty
03-25-2013, 12:27
So the solution has to be 100% effective or forget about it? In that case, my plan for trash cans every 5 yards is the way to go.

Trash cans is a nice idea on its face, but the problems that others have posted are serious. It's a lot of work for forest service employees and volunteers to take care of. Is the trail already in such great shape that extra resources can be siphoned off to take care of the trash cans? Putting it by the roads seems like it'd make emptying them easier, but those are likely to be abused by people driving by. On a hike last year I witnessed someone pull up to a trash can and throw trash at it. They missed. They were less than 5 yards away on an empty road, and they couldn't be bothered to get out to put their trash inside the trashcan. The animal issue is another big problem, especially if people don't close the trashcans properly. Then there's the issue of money.

Educating hikers probably wouldn't work for the kind of people that are willing to dump their trash in the forest.

Beating litterers would be awfully satisfying, and would probably work, but the prison time for this solution probably isn't worth it.

Volunteers, rangers and hikers already carry out litter. It isn't 100% effective, but it's something.

How about another solution that also wouldn't be 100% effective? Getting places like REI to see ziploc-style bags with new super fancy and instructive packaging that extols the virtues of repackaging food so that there's less trash to carry out. It'd be like selling snow to an eskimo, but I bet REI could pull it off.

I got to walk 5 yards to a trash can? No way, it's just easier to throw it on the ground! :)

leaftye
03-25-2013, 12:31
I got to walk 5 yards to a trash can? No way, it's just easier to throw it on the ground! :)

What's sad is that I'm pretty sure the person I witnessed is an Olympian.

Rasty
03-25-2013, 12:32
What's sad is that I'm pretty sure the person I witnessed is an Olympian.

Sports Olympian or Washington State?

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 12:36
I got to walk 5 yards to a trash can? No way, it's just easier to throw it on the ground! :)

back in the day we usta bury tuna cans

leaftye
03-25-2013, 12:40
Sports Olympian or Washington State?

Colorful circles and a flaming torch olympian.

max patch
03-25-2013, 12:42
Greg Louganis hikes?

Hikemor
03-25-2013, 12:51
Trail clubs have more valuable things to do than service trash cans.

In this day and age, ANY hiker that does not dispose of trash properly is being willfully lazy and/or ignorant.

Doesn't the current UL paradigm suggest that you should resupply evey other day to cut down the amount of food to carry? How much trash can that be... a couple of Clif Bar wrappers and tuna foils?

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 12:56
So john gault tell me do you have any solution to the problem beside packing in packing out and LNT ? You packed it in,now it's empty.If you can't completely burn it,YOU PACK IT OUT.That's the way it's supposed to work.I try to get in to 2 shelters about every 2 weeks.You wouldn't believe what gets left behind in those 2 weeks.Litter,wet clothes,cooking pots and a whole bunch of crap.The problem is really bad as soon as the thru hikers start coming through and last till the SOBOs get past.When you sometimes have 20-30 hikers at a shelter for several weeks it would be a real mess if volunteers didn't clean-up after the ones who do not care about the problem.Not everyone is a litterbug,but it only takes a few to get a real trash pile started:eek:.......

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 13:02
back in the day we usta bury tuna cans

We still bury our trash...Mt Trashmore in VA Beach is popular. We even make it pretty :)

Also, we dump it in the ocean...not so nice! I guess there are places that still burn trash, in a more controlled way then I saw growing up. We try...

Should we make everyone that wants to hike the trail take a class on hiking? Everyone has to earn a "hiking license" in order to hike the trail? You must pass the class called, Hiking 101 per the U.S. government? Make everyone take an oath on LNT?

max patch
03-25-2013, 13:09
There's a reason the FS hasn't installed bear boxes at the shelters in GA...

leaftye
03-25-2013, 13:15
Should we make everyone that wants to hike the trail take a class on hiking? Everyone has to earn a "hiking license" in order to hike the trail? You must pass the class called, Hiking 101 per the U.S. government? Make everyone take an oath on LNT?

While we're at it, on this coast we can have mountain bikers take classes about not biking on the PCT, you know, that trail that has signs with no biking symbols at all the trail heads and some points in between. :D What about a class for not 4 wheeling on the AT so that those people ripping up signs and barriers know not to 4 wheel on the AT?

Seatbelt
03-25-2013, 13:15
You packed it in,now it's empty.If you can't completely burn it,YOU PACK IT OUT.That's the way it's supposed to work.I try to get in to 2 shelters about every 2 weeks.You wouldn't believe what gets left behind in those 2 weeks.Litter,wet clothes,cooking pots and a whole bunch of crap.The problem is really bad as soon as the thru hikers start coming through and last till the SOBOs get past.When you sometimes have 20-30 hikers at a shelter for several weeks it would be a real mess if volunteers didn't clean-up after the ones who do not care about the problem.Not everyone is a litterbug,but it only takes a few to get a real trash pile started:eek:.......
.......and then someone else sees the trash and says--what the heck, I can leave mine too.....

leaftye
03-25-2013, 13:17
I won't leave john and hikermom hanging. I burn some trash sometimes too. I'm awful though. Occasionally I'll throw plastic in the fire. No metal though.

Rasty
03-25-2013, 13:18
We still bury our trash...Mt Trashmore in VA Beach is popular. We even make it pretty :)

Also, we dump it in the ocean...not so nice! I guess there are places that still burn trash, in a more controlled way then I saw growing up. We try...

Should we make everyone that wants to hike the trail take a class on hiking? Everyone has to earn a "hiking license" in order to hike the trail? You must pass the class called, Hiking 101 per the U.S. government? Make everyone take an oath on LNT?

Shirley you can't be serious?

Deacon
03-25-2013, 13:19
There's a reason the FS hasn't installed bear boxes at the shelters in GA...

Several shelters in Vermont have bear boxes, but the FS locked them up because hikers kept using them for trash cans.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 13:22
Packing out trash is just part of being a responsible hiker.Here in this area there are USFS maintained trash cans 100yds south of Allen Gap and at the hiker parking lot at Sam's Gap about 28 miles from AG.Then it's only about 20 miles to Erwin.When I'm out on a multi-day maintenance trip I sometimes ask hikers if they have any trash and offer to pack it out for them.I'm just one guy who tries to keep about a 10 mile section clean because I live 15 minutes from the trail.Any help is appreciated,I can just do a small section,I'm sure that if not for volunteers in GA the first few miles would be really in bad shape.....

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 13:24
Several shelters in Vermont have bear boxes, but the FS locked them up because hikers kept using them for trash cans. Down here hikers sometimes leave a large amount of trash in a bag on the bear cables.Thanks:mad:......

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 13:24
While we're at it, on this coast we can have mountain bikers take classes about not biking on the PCT, you know, that trail that has signs with no biking symbols at all the trail heads and some points in between. :D What about a class for not 4 wheeling on the AT so that those people ripping up signs and barriers know not to 4 wheel on the AT?

Yeah..............:sun Education & more control fixes everything.....:eek:

Not trying to bash education at all but... yeah!

leaftye
03-25-2013, 13:27
Education and rules are great, but ineffective with some people. That's why I suggested a different way. Unfortunately people are stuck on LNT or nothing being the only possible solutions.

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 13:27
Shirley you can't be serious?

Sneriously? :D

Chaco Taco
03-25-2013, 14:35
Down here hikers sometimes leave a large amount of trash in a bag on the bear cables.Thanks:mad:......
yea it is pretty common to see that down south. I love when dog crap gets bagged and left hanging from signs..

prain4u
03-25-2013, 14:42
back in the day we usta bury tuna cans

I am old enough to remember those days! It used to be standard practice for hikers and campers to bury and/or burn all trash--not just tuna cans. Many people also dug trenches around their their tents for rain runoff and cut down trees for projects around camp.

peakbagger
03-25-2013, 14:48
The trash pits used to be referred to as the "goat". They were quite extensive at popular sites.

prain4u
03-25-2013, 14:50
.......and then someone else sees the trash and says--what the heck, I can leave mine too.....


Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across across the dump saying, "Closed on Thanksgiving." And we had never heard of a dump closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage. We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw our's down. That's what we did :)

Sly
03-25-2013, 14:52
I am old enough to remember those days! It used to be standard practice for hikers and campers to bury and/or burn all trash--not just tuna cans.

Really!? Not sure what part of the country that was the norm but I'm older than both of you and it was always pack in in, pack it out.

prain4u
03-25-2013, 15:28
Really!? Not sure what part of the country that was the norm but I'm older than both of you and it was always pack in in, pack it out.

Go back and look at the camping books from the 1950s, 1960s--and sometimes even early 1970s. They taught that stuff. The Boy Scouts had the most widely distributed books on camping and hiking from that era--that is exactly what they taught. Military manuals sometimes taught it. Since that was the prevailing method taught in those years (and earlier)--such things were passed on by adults to kids--sometimes even today.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 15:42
Go back and look at the camping books from the 1950s, 1960s--and sometimes even early 1970s. They taught that stuff. The Boy Scouts had the most widely distributed books on camping and hiking from that era--that is exactly what they taught. Military manuals sometimes taught it. Since that was the prevailing method taught in those years (and earlier)--such things were passed on by adults to kids--sometimes even today.

That is one messed up technique to teach to our children. That should be addressed fast if true.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 15:48
Really!? Not sure what part of the country that was the norm but I'm older than both of you and it was always pack in in, pack it out. +1...........

max patch
03-25-2013, 15:50
I have a couple of books from 1970 and 1973 (Campers Bible and Hikers Bible) that I just took a quick look at. The both said that trenching a tent is usually not necessary anymore - and then both gave specific instructions on how to do it when it was "necessary". Haven't seen anything yet about burying trash.

Kookork
03-25-2013, 15:53
I have a couple of books from 1970 and 1973 (Campers Bible and Hikers Bible) that I just took a quick look at. The both said that trenching a tent is usually not necessary anymore - and then both gave specific instructions on how to do it when it was "necessary". Haven't seen anything yet about burying trash.

and burning it?

leaftye
03-25-2013, 15:56
The rangers in the sierras didn't have very nice things to say about commercial packers and the mess they leave behind. Iirc, they said the mentality was they've been doing it for a very long time, so they'll keep doing it, and they go to places where no one goes, so no one else should be complaining about it.

As far as backpackers go, I don't know why. Some of it may be by habit, like smokers dropping their butts, or cops littering crime scenes. Maybe some day I'll go berserk and interrogate a littering backpacker and have a better answer for you guys.

max patch
03-25-2013, 16:06
I have a couple of books from 1970 and 1973 (Campers Bible and Hikers Bible) that I just took a quick look at. The both said that trenching a tent is usually not necessary anymore - and then both gave specific instructions on how to do it when it was "necessary". Haven't seen anything yet about burying trash.

Haven't seen anything about trash - I guess "anything goes" was the standard.

The Campers Bible gave me great directions on how to cut a bough mattress.

The Hikers Bible (ounce weenies stop reading here) said that no backpacking tent should weigh more than 10 pounds, and that some nylon tents were as light as 6 pounds.

I bought my first backpacking tent around 1975 a Eureka something or other and I think it was 5 1/2 pounds.

Don H
03-25-2013, 16:06
The problem with trash cans on the trail is they have to be close to a road to be serviced. In some areas homeowners have to pay for trash pickup or dump fees if they haul their own so what ends up happening is the locals use the cans to avoid the fees (this is one of the reason why some businesses lock their dumpsters). Now you have trail maintainers picking up the local's trash.

On the other hand there are a few trash cans along the trail. I seem to remember some bear proof cans in a remote location in NJ somewhere that were not overflowing. I was grateful to be able to unload some trash in them.

It's really no problem hauling your own trash, and while you're at it pick up some trash along the way. If everyone pitches in we'll have a nicer trail.

max patch
03-25-2013, 16:06
I have a couple of books from 1970 and 1973 (Campers Bible and Hikers Bible) that I just took a quick look at. The both said that trenching a tent is usually not necessary anymore - and then both gave specific instructions on how to do it when it was "necessary". Haven't seen anything yet about burying trash.

Haven't seen anything about trash - I guess "anything goes" was the standard.

The Campers Bible gave me great directions on how to cut a bough mattress.

The Hikers Bible (ounce weenies stop reading here) said that no backpacking tent should weigh more than 10 pounds, and that some nylon tents were as light as 6 pounds.

I bought my first backpacking tent around 1975 a Eureka something or other and I think it was 5 1/2 pounds.

Sly
03-25-2013, 16:07
Go back and look at the camping books from the 1950s, 1960s--and sometimes even early 1970s. They taught that stuff. The Boy Scouts had the most widely distributed books on camping and hiking from that era--that is exactly what they taught. Military manuals sometimes taught it. Since that was the prevailing method taught in those years (and earlier)--such things were passed on by adults to kids--sometimes even today.

What books?

My father never brought me hiking/camping, I did it as a teen with my friends in the Whites in the late 60's-70's and we never, ever, buried our trash.

WingedMonkey
03-25-2013, 16:11
Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across across the dump saying, "Closed on Thanksgiving." And we had never heard of a dump closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage. We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw our's down. That's what we did :)

This is the land that that little ditty (very long actually) paid for, along the Appalachian Trail in Massachusetts.

:p

20685

Cookerhiker
03-25-2013, 16:19
From Ed Garvey's first edition Appalachian Hiker - Adventure of a Lifetime published in 1971 following his 1970 thruhike.


"...The hiker will see signs saying 'Pack it in, Pack it out'...Even though you may see piles of trash at a shelter or covered garbage dump, do not use them. Carry out everything you bring in. Don't bury anything! [my emphasis]. Be able to say at the end of your 2,000 mile hike that you did not leave a single item of trash at any point along the entire 2,000 mile Trail"

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 16:21
From Ed Garvey's first edition Appalachian Hiker - Adventure of a Lifetime published in 1971 following his 1970 thruhike.


"...The hiker will see signs saying 'Pack it in, Pack it out'...Even though you may see piles of trash at a shelter or covered garbage dump, do not use them. Carry out everything you bring in. Don't bury anything! [my emphasis]. Be able to say at the end of your 2,000 mile hike that you did not leave a single item of trash at any point along the entire 2,000 mile Trail"

shoulda included never burn ANYTHING in a fire pit except wood

Rick Hancock
03-25-2013, 16:23
Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help.

My trail club TATC has members that live an average of 150/200 miles away from our section (Reeds Gap /Tye River). We provide several, 5 or more scheduled maintenance trips per year, plus other trips for emergency reasons. Is it too much trouble to carry a bit of trash for a couple of days? Try getting rid of as much excess packaging before you leave town, burn what you can, have a designated zip lock trash bag (gal. size) and quite complaining!

Cookerhiker
03-25-2013, 16:23
From Ed Garvey's first edition Appalachian Hiker - Adventure of a Lifetime published in 1971 following his 1970 thruhike.

"...The hiker will see signs saying 'Pack it in, Pack it out'...Even though you may see piles of trash at a shelter or covered garbage dump, do not use them. Carry out everything you bring in. Don't bury anything! [my emphasis]. Be able to say at the end of your 2,000 mile hike that you did not leave a single item of trash at any point along the entire 2,000 mile Trail"




shoulda included never burn ANYTHING in a fire pit except wood

Well that's covered in "Carry out everything you bring in" but I guess a little redundancy wouldn't hurt for those who need it.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 16:25
burn what you can,

no, pack out EVERYTHING

leaftye
03-25-2013, 16:26
The problem with trash cans on the trail is they have to be close to a road to be serviced. In some areas homeowners have to pay for trash pickup or dump fees if they haul their own so what ends up happening is the locals use the cans to avoid the fees (this is one of the reason why some businesses lock their dumpsters). Now you have trail maintainers picking up the local's trash.

It can get much worse if people start taking advantage of those to throw hazardous materials like batteries, fluorescent bulbs, paint and oil.

I would think that by now we agree that trash cans aren't feasible, except for maybe a few locations that have the perfect combination of location and willing volunteers and other uknown-to-me factors.

Rick Hancock
03-25-2013, 16:32
If I'm having a fire I burn paper trash that's it. I also burn my waste paper as I don't dig a cat hole. If I'm in an area with fire restrictions like SNP I carry all of my trash including my waste paper till I can dispose of it at a trail head container.

Don H
03-25-2013, 16:32
My trail club TATC has members that live an average of 150/200 miles away from our section (Reeds Gap /Tye River). We provide several, 5 or more scheduled maintenance trips per year, plus other trips for emergency reasons. Is it too much trouble to carry a bit of trash for a couple of days? Try getting rid of as much excess packaging before you leave town, burn what you can, have a designated zip lock trash bag (gal. size) and quite complaining!

I didn't think any clubs advocated burning trash but...
See item 11. http://www.tidewateratc.com/tatc/pages/cabin_rules.html


"DO NOT BURN TRASH, ESPECIALLY PLASTIC, STYROFOAM, TIN
FOIL, ETC
. Burn only paper trash; pack out all the rest."

Rick Hancock
03-25-2013, 16:38
Those are cabin rules not trail rules however, I normally repackage my meals in freezer weight zip locks and just collect them in my bigger trash bag (gal zip lock) that way I don't have a bunch of extra trash. I could hike a month and not have more than a 1/2 pound of trash.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 16:44
Why don't the trail clubs make a better effort at providing a places for hikers to get rid of trash? There are places where you have to carry it for too many days right now. If the trail clubs would put out and maintain a trash container at a few road crossings along the way it would make the trail cleaner. If they could place it back a ways so that people don't use it to clean their cars it would only need minimum dumping. Of course it would be nowhere near a shelter. The current non system of hauling it to the next town sometimes involves a weeks worth of trash. I have met long haul hikers who's system was to carry it for 3 days and if they did not come across a proper disposal place they would toss it into the fire. Even if it just one place every seventy five miles, it would help. How about your backyard:rolleyes:.........

leaftye
03-25-2013, 16:47
Those are cabin rules not trail rules however, I normally repackage my meals in freezer weight zip locks and just collect them in my bigger trash bag (gal zip lock) that way I don't have a bunch of extra trash. I could hike a month and not have more than a 1/2 pound of trash.

That's the beauty of repackaging. I go a tiny step further. My trash bag is my first used ziplock bag.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 16:53
From Ed Garvey's first edition Appalachian Hiker - Adventure of a Lifetime published in 1971 following his 1970 thruhike.

"...The hiker will see signs saying 'Pack it in, Pack it out'...Even though you may see piles of trash at a shelter or covered garbage dump, do not use them. Carry out everything you bring in. Don't bury anything! [my emphasis]. Be able to say at the end of your 2,000 mile hike that you did not leave a single item of trash at any point along the entire 2,000 mile Trail"

I totally agree.After completing a thru hike I could not imagine leaving the trail lined with with one's own litter.I guess some folks tend to forget certain aspects of their hike.....

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 17:02
My trail club TATC has members that live an average of 150/200 miles away from our section (Reeds Gap /Tye River). We provide several, 5 or more scheduled maintenance trips per year, plus other trips for emergency reasons. Is it too much trouble to carry a bit of trash for a couple of days? Try getting rid of as much excess packaging before you leave town, burn what you can, have a designated zip lock trash bag (gal. size) and quite complaining! Jeez only 5 maintenance trips?With the crowds on the trail these days,shelters need to be checked every few week during the peak thru season.I've been hiking the local area for 30 years and have seen Carolina Mtn. Club work crews less than a dozen times.Met shelter caretakers at Hogback Ridge shelter once and Big Bald shelter once also....

Chaco Taco
03-25-2013, 17:52
Jeez only 5 maintenance trips?With the crowds on the trail these days,shelters need to be checked every few week during the peak thru season.I've been hiking the local area for 30 years and have seen Carolina Mtn. Club work crews less than a dozen times.Met shelter caretakers at Hogback Ridge shelter once and Big Bald shelter once also....
I love that section with Big Bald, Butt, Hogback, Hot Springs. The CMC does a pretty good job. Nice easy drive up from Asheville. This was a common afternoon hike when we were in the south. Great section of the AT!

Rayo
03-25-2013, 17:56
if you choose to hike long distance then you carry your trash and dump it in a town. pretty simple

Amen.

The trash component weighs a fraction of what it did before you consumed it. Toughen up and pack it out. :)

Rayo
03-25-2013, 17:58
Oh, I forgot, one of the worst things I witnessed almost daily on trail was the dreaded throw-you-garbage-in-the-fire-ring tactic. Please don't, it's bad wilderness ethics, it encourages others to do the same, it never works out as well as you have pictured, and the weight difference is inconsequential.

prain4u
03-25-2013, 18:19
Let me start by saying: I DON'T ENDORSE BURYING TRASH, TRENCHING TENTS ETC. Except for a few occasions VERY EARLY in my 40+ year years of camping and hiking, I have personally practiced Leave No Trace. However, Leave No Trace was not what was always taught in camping and hiking literature. People who were in Scouting or the military from the 1920's through 1960's were generally taught MUCH different camping practices than LNT--and they continued to pass those camping practices along for many years after the 1950s and 1960s.

Scouting and the military have probably influenced more campers and hikers than all of the other influences combined. So, what they taught was very significant--in terms of it's impact in the outdoor world.

My own old books are in storage. So I could not get quotes from them. However, here are some things I found online with a quick search. They demonstrate some of the practices which were being taught to a couple generations of hikers and campers. (This first article does mention packing out cans--but it is interesting in other ways:

From a June 1974--Field and Stream article on dealing with bears. Under "Back County Camping" it says: "Burn all trash and garbage except for glass. Burn out cans, flatten them, and pack them and all other unburnable trash out in plastic bags"

Boys Life Magazine (Boy Scouts of America) April 1949:
Under a list of "Wilderness Manners"
5. Burn all garbage and refuse.
6. Flatten and bury tin cans.


This is from a 1959 camping book (title not given). The quote is regarding proper cleanup procedures following a meal:
"Get rid of the garbage. Burn whatever will burn at one end of the fire. Burn out cans and flatten them. Wash out empty jars. Bury the burned out cans and the washed out jars".


Boys Life Magazine: Boy Scouts of America. July 1945
"Burn garbage. Smash tin cans, burn them out; then bury them"


From the book, The Patrol Goes to Camp, by REX HAZLEWOOD, Editor, The Scouter and The Scout. Published by the Boy Scout Association (of Great Britain). Copyright 1950, 5th reprint 1960

"Leave your camp site as you would like to find a camp site when you arrived. Here are some rules:

(i) You should have burnt all garbage as you went along. Donít leave it till the last minute

(ii) Flatten out tin cans and bury them fairly deep. (If necessary take them home with you and see they reach the domestic dust-bin). Donít leave them about.

(iii) Fill in your latrines and mark with a sign. Fill in your grease pit."


From a U.S. Forest Service Publication for Routt National Forest.Printed in 1941:

GARBAGE.óBurn all paper, old clothing, or rubbish. Bury or place in pits or receptacles provided, all garbage, tin cans, bottles, and other refuse.


Boys Life Magazine, June 1954 Boy Scouts of America.
"If it isn't feasible to cart them along, burn out cans, smash them bury them; rinse out bottles and jars fill them with dirt and bury them".

From Camping and Woodcraft; a Handbook for Vacation Campers and for Travelers in the Wilderness (1921):

Destroy at once all refuse that would attract flies or bury it where they cannot get at it. Fire is the absolute disinfectant. Burn all solid kitchen refuse as fast as it accumulates. When a can of food is emptied toss it on the fire and burn it out, then drop it in a sink-hole, that you have dug for slops and unburnable trash, and cover it with earth or ashes so no mosquitoes can breed in it after a rainfall.

Do I endorse these practices? Of course not! But, they WERE the mainstream practices for much of the 20th Century--especially the first half of the 20th Century.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 18:49
Oh, I forgot, one of the worst things I witnessed almost daily on trail was the dreaded throw-you-garbage-in-the-fire-ring tactic. Please don't, it's bad wilderness ethics, it encourages others to do the same, it never works out as well as you have pictured, and the weight difference is inconsequential. This is #1 thing a whole lot of hikers still do.Before long instead of a firepit there is a trash pile....

Another Kevin
03-25-2013, 19:11
It's not my trash I grumble about packing out. It's forty-'leven other people's trash.

I usually pack out what I can when I find a mess on the trail, but there are limits. I rather despaired a year ago when I got to a shelter, about 4-5 miles from the trailhead, and found behind it a pile of discarded gear: a couple of sleeping bags, a couple of packs, a tarp, goodness knows what-all else, all mildewy and soaking wet. No way I could carry any of that out. It looked as if a family had got in there, decided backpacking was not for them, abandoned their gear and slacked out. I tented that night - I was planning to anyway - but I still hated leaving that trash-heap behind.

A lot of hikes, the rubbish I pack out outweighs the consumables I packed in.

FatHead64
03-25-2013, 19:30
It'a a problem, alright.... Apparently trail angels, ridgerunners and other trail maintenance groups haul trash, out of the woods, all the time. So what I think the point is, the same folks that tend to throw trash out the window of their car, for instance, will not dispose of their trash properly no matter what is provided for them along the trail.

It's a problem everywhere. If it is only just getting to be an issue on the AT, lucky comes to mind. I hike every weekend in a little-used state park. Every weekend, I collect trash that I don't bring into the park. Someone has to take it back out and, in general, people have a lot of practice at being sloppy pigs. Sorry, but bluntly stated. Hardest thing to haul out - tires. Dragging tires through through sand dunes is like dragging a wake anchor.

Anyway, starting to digress, you shouldn't bring it in if you aren't willing to take it out. All the way out. Period.

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 19:39
It's not my trash I grumble about packing out. It's forty-'leven other people's trash.

I usually pack out what I can when I find a mess on the trail, but there are limits. I rather despaired a year ago when I got to a shelter, about 4-5 miles from the trailhead, and found behind it a pile of discarded gear: a couple of sleeping bags, a couple of packs, a tarp, goodness knows what-all else, all mildewy and soaking wet. No way I could carry any of that out. It looked as if a family had got in there, decided backpacking was not for them, abandoned their gear and slacked out. I tented that night - I was planning to anyway - but I still hated leaving that trash-heap behind.

A lot of hikes, the rubbish I pack out outweighs the consumables I packed in. That's similar to what a thru hiker told me 20 years ago.Apparently it still goes on.Kinda of one of the reasons I never really wanted to thru hike.2100+ miles and a lot of garbage at many places though not all.Lots of neat places&great people.So here I will do what I can to keep one little section nicer.Still enjoy meeting hikers from all over the world but some of them are not so nice.They will thank me for my trail work then throw their trash in the next firepit:(.....

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 19:42
FWIW thanks Another Kevin for your greatly needed efforts:sun......

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 19:47
IMO a lot of trash is left behind by the way those who I call Hostel Hoppers.Run up the trail not caring for nothing except for the next hostel or town.....

BillyGr
03-25-2013, 19:58
Not sure why anyone would be surprised that books that are 40 years (and more) old would suggest doing things that aren't commonly (if at all) done now - that change has occurred in many things, not just hiking.

However, if there was an area where trash disposal was a problem, how about recruiting someone living in that area to help with the trail and local group. While not all road crossings do, I've seen many where there is a house (or other building) close by. If that person (or group) was willing, they could simply place a regular trash can (like one would use to put the trash out for a service to pick up) somewhere on the property and let it be known through the trail guides that it was available for hikers to use. That cuts the issues of others dumping trash in it (since people wouldn't do that any more than they would normally when these cans are out overnight for early morning pickup).

The burning of paper shoudln't be an issue (assuming fires are OK where you are camping) - after all it's used as a firestarter all the time, and is made (for the most part) out of wood.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 20:09
so bottom line, if you carry somethin' in the woods you carry it out. real friggin simple. if your weenie butt can't handle that then stay on the internet and snivel. close thread

HikerMom58
03-25-2013, 20:22
so bottom line, if you carry somethin' in the woods you carry it out. real friggin simple. if your weenie butt can't handle that then stay on the internet and snivel. close thread

Yes agreed- But, we were trying to figure out a way to convince/encourage EVERYONE to do the same..... I don't think that's going to happen- Sooooo we will pick up the slack for the ones that don't ... grrr.....

I have pyro tendencies so I will throw my paper stuff that burns up, well, into a camp fire... blah!

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 20:26
Yes agreed- But, we were trying to figure out a way to convince/encourage EVERYONE to do the same..... I don't think that's going to happen- Sooooo we will pick up the slack for the ones that don't ... grrr.....

I have pyro tendencies so I will throw my paper stuff that burns up, well, into a camp fire... blah!

whatever.......

The Cleaner
03-25-2013, 20:27
so bottom line, if you carry somethin' in the woods you carry it out. real friggin simple. if your weenie butt can't handle that then stay on the internet and snivel. close thread Very well said....:cool:

Rick Hancock
03-25-2013, 20:47
I didn't think any clubs advocated burning trash but...
See item 11. http://www.tidewateratc.com/tatc/pages/cabin_rules.html


"DO NOT BURN TRASH, ESPECIALLY PLASTIC, STYROFOAM,
TIN
FOIL,
ETC
.Burn only paper trash; pack out all the rest."


Those are cabin rules/guidelines. The cabin isn't on the AT. I don't ask anyone to follow my lead just offering my input. If I'm having a fire I'll burn my paper trash which is very limited as I repack my instant meals (pasta, rice, etc.) in qt. zip lock bags which I cook in and then store them in my gal. zip lock till the end of my hike or I find a trash can. If possible, I also burn my waste paper. If I'm in a no fire area like SNP I pack all trash out including my waste paper! I can hike 3 weeks and generate less than 1/2 pound of trash.

jeffmeh
03-26-2013, 07:35
There will always be those that show no respect for the outdoors (or anyone else's property, for that matter). I'm not sure that we are going to stop it on Whiteblaze, if neither the non-PC Crying Indian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM)nor Woodsy Owl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZB7gSQRIuM)could stop it.

That said, the environment is significantly cleaner in the US than when those were made, in the 1970's.

fiddlehead
03-26-2013, 08:52
No sense getting upset here folks.
Seems to me the experienced hikers know what to do with their trash.
They consolidate it down at the store where they bought the stuff to minimalize their trash.
And then they pack it back out to the next town.

Most everyone who doesn't know this is a newbie and maybe needs to be shown how to do it. (and have their mistakes pointed out to them)
They'll catch on soon enough

And remember: "No matter how hard you try, tin foil will not burn"

Sly
03-26-2013, 09:44
Do I endorse these practices? Of course not! But, they WERE the mainstream practices for much of the 20th Century--especially the first half of the 20th Century.

Few of us we born in the 1st half of the 20th century. There was no excuse to continue using antiquated methods into the late 60's and 70's. That people are still burying and burning trash today is absurd.

Bronk
03-27-2013, 04:13
Just wake up really early in the morning and put all of your trash in the bottom of somebody else's pack. By the time they realize its there you will be long gone.

rocketsocks
03-27-2013, 05:29
Just wake up really early in the morning and put all of your trash in the bottom of somebody else's pack. By the time they realize its there you will be long gone.Maybe throw in a couple losing lottery tickets too, just so they'll know you were really down on your luck and needed a break.

MuddyWaters
03-27-2013, 05:56
I dont mind hauling my trash

What I dont like, is anticipating to be able to get rid of it at a road crossing with garbage cans, and then finding the cans are locked when I get there.

If the forest service is going to have trail heads with parking and trash cans, they need to be operable, all the time. Otherwise, just get rid of the trail head.

moytoy
03-27-2013, 06:25
The only trash I can think of that I have is used TP. I repackage everything into baggies or plastic bottles that I carry with me through out my hike. On a few occasions I have carried the package that comes with jerky into the woods but this is after all just another baggie that I can use. Where is all this trash coming from?
On the subject of buried trash. I don't recall my BS manual teaching anything about burning or burying trash but I do remember my elders doing this type of disposal when I was a child. After all I did use an outdoor privy until I was about 8 years old. Doing this while on a trip in the back country only made sense at the time. A few "tin" cans and bottles got buried as well. Not so much plastic or aluminum in those days:) Fast forward 60 years...there is no excuse for doing it now. I will say I don't see the harm in burning a plain piece of paper in a campfire that is already burning.

Chaco Taco
03-27-2013, 06:47
so bottom line, if you carry somethin' in the woods you carry it out. real friggin simple. if your weenie butt can't handle that then stay on the internet and snivel. close thread
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