View Full Version : Is There Anything You Won't Compromise On w/ Weight? And Other Ramblings
capehiker
03-26-2013, 11:32
I'm in the process of turning over my decade old gear for more current lightweight gear. My old big 4 weighs in at 12.5lbs and I think I can't get down to 6lbs-ish for next years thru. The only thing I don't see myself reducing weight in is my sleeping pad. 21 years in the military has given me a few more aches and I've turned into a side sleeper. I want some thickness to the sleep pad so my hips don't grind into the ground.
But...the piece of gear that has been the subject of many Google, YouTube, and Whiteblaze searches is my shelter system (currently have an 11 yr old SD Clip Flashlight CD). I'm all over the place with this. One day I'm set on the SMD Trekker, the next day I'm drooling over the Lightheart Solo, then yesterday's thread about the Big Agnes Platinum has me going back to the drawing board. Deep down I'm a traditional tent guy so I've been looking at the Big Agnes UL series pretty much daily. However, I don't want to discount the light weight single wall hiking pole tents, either. The only trouble with the cottage industries is I can't drive to their store and test it out. Other concerns are losing a trekking pole or breaking it (I realize tent poles break as well). Actually, the trekking pole issue is a big concern.
In short, for those who lean to the UL side of backpacking, is there anything you won't compromise on no matter what the weight is? I don't want to cut ounces just to cut ounces and I'm factoring in mental morale for a 5-6 month trip.
Sorry for the ramble. :D
I'm in the process of sorting out my DECADES old equipment for a proposed 30 day NOBO section hike next year. I have not found a valid reason to change anything. I am sifting through 3 different stoves & trying to decide on one. I am also debating between 4 shelter options: North Face Bullfrog, Garuda Atman or MSR Heptawing or Vistawing. Pack, sleeping bag & pad will remain the same.
I have looked long and hard at newer, lighter, smaller backpacks. I will NOT give up my 1994 Dana Design ArcFlex Terraplane backpack. The same goes for the WM Antelope Super Dry Loft bag. They were the best available when I bought them. I don't see anything better today.
Go figure.
Wayne
Wayne
I am in the same boat as you on the pad. But having said that, you can get a comfy neoair xlite for under a lb. Want lighter still, the shorty is about 8 oz and I personally don't see a drop in comfort. Yes, these weight more than a 4oz piece of foam but a lot less than some much heavier inflatable alternatives. This may not be cushy enough for you but it illustrates the point that there is often light weight alternatives that I would view as the 80/20 solution. As a very experience hiker once told me "there is not right or wrong, just trade offs". Low Weight, low cost, High comfort.... It's often pick two out of three.
I don't have a "do not compromise" list. But given the environment I am usually in, my order of priority for shelter is:
1) Rain/moisture protection
2) Insect protection
3) Size
4) Wind protection
5) Weight
6) Warmth
7) Privacy
The privacy one is interesting. I've essentially stopped using a hammock because of it and wind issues.
Good Luck
Poopsy
Odd Man Out
03-26-2013, 13:36
My hat - I wear a hat everyday. It protects from the sun, heat, cold, rain, bugs. I ignore weight when picking out this item. Plus, as it sits on top of your head, its effective weight is negligible - ever notice how in many cultures people tote very heavy loads balance on the top of their heads?
SCRUB HIKER
03-26-2013, 14:13
ever notice how in many cultures people tote very heavy loads balance on the top of their heads?
You can still do this with your backpack; it's called a tump line. Patagonia makes one (http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-tumpline?p=11685-0-155).
Sorry for going off-topic.
max patch
03-26-2013, 14:32
A 4 pound pack that fits you and has an adequate suspension system is lighter than a 2 pound pack that doesn't.
Feral Bill
03-26-2013, 14:41
. I will NOT give up my 1994 Dana Design ArcFlex Terraplane backpack.
Wayne
I use my Terraplane for heavy, bulky winter loads, and for family loads when my kids were small, or group leader loads. But it is crazy heavy. What's your reasoning on that one?
I, of course, am still using my late sixties SVEA stove. No compromises there. ;)
A 4 pound pack that fits you and has an adequate suspension system is lighter than a 2 pound pack that doesn't.
Max Patch, that is a very good point
I use my Terraplane for heavy, bulky winter loads, and for family loads when my kids were small, or group leader loads. But it is crazy heavy. What's your reasoning on that one?
I, of course, am still using my late sixties SVEA stove. No compromises there. ;)
My SVEA stove is one of the 3 choices that I mentioned above. Actually, I have 4 stoves. Decisions. Decisions.
Why the Terraplane? It is paid for. It holds anything I care to throw in it. I know it fits me & is very comfortable. I can't say the same for several packs that darn near killed me before I found the Terraplane. I don't want to go back to finding another pack that works as well as the Terraplane.
If I want to go light in warm weather, I also have an early 1970s Jensen Frameless pack from Rivendell Mountain Works. Funds permitting, I would buy one of Western Mountaineering's ultralight bags. My present summer bag is difficult to cram in the Jensen pack. My only minor nit pick about the pack & the bag.
Small world: I started school at Fairchild A.F.B. We moved east after 4th grade. I miss Spokane. A good friend is a retired opthamologist and lives in Spokane. I keep saying that I am going to go him one of these days.
Wayne
Odd Man Out
03-26-2013, 18:09
You can still do this with your backpack; it's called a tump line.
Yes, I've seen pictures of Nepalese porters using them. Nepalese porters who go UL go out of business real fast.
MuddyWaters
03-26-2013, 18:18
Sometimes...I will take a rubber snake with me depending on whos with me.
I try to keep my pack light enough, it doesnt matter.
capehiker
03-26-2013, 18:21
But having said that, you can get a comfy neoair xlite for under a lb. Want lighter still, the shorty is about 8 oz and I personally don't see a drop in comfort.
I tested one out at the outfitter and it seemed awfully loud. My concern was that I would wake up from tossing and turning (which I am).
Rocket Jones
03-26-2013, 19:01
Add a few ounces and a bit of durability, and subtract quite a bit of the noise with a NeoAir Trekker.
max patch
03-26-2013, 19:53
If I had to blow up a sleeping pad every nite I'd stick to day hikes.
MuddyWaters
03-26-2013, 20:45
If I had to blow up a sleeping pad every nite I'd stick to day hikes.
or carry a microburst inflator 2.3 oz w/batteries
Feral Bill
03-26-2013, 23:22
My SVEA stove is one of the 3 choices that I mentioned above. Actually, I have 4 stoves. Decisions. Decisions.
Why the Terraplane? It is paid for. It holds anything I care to throw in it. I know it fits me & is very comfortable. I can't say the same for several packs that darn near killed me before I found the Terraplane. I don't want to go back to finding another pack that works as well as the Terraplane.
If I want to go light in warm weather, I also have an early 1970s Jensen Frameless pack from Rivendell Mountain Works. Funds permitting, I would buy one of Western Mountaineering's ultralight bags. My present summer bag is difficult to cram in the Jensen pack. My only minor nit pick about the pack & the bag.
Small world: I started school at Fairchild A.F.B. We moved east after 4th grade. I miss Spokane. A good friend is a retired opthamologist and lives in Spokane. I keep saying that I am going to go him one of these days.
Wayne The Svea and Terraplane do make a nice pairing.
Swordpen
03-26-2013, 23:52
A camp stool (not chair). I have so much arthritis, I almost consider it a medical necessity.
another is a buff &/ or hat of some sort (I have crazy, thin, all over the place, hair).
lighter, smaller backpacks. I will NOT give up my 1994 Dana Design ArcFlex Terraplane backpack. The same goes for the WM Antelope Super Dry Loft bag. They were the best available when I bought them. I don't see anything better today.
Go figure.
Wayne, you're thinking is spot on.
Will say, today's gear is the best it's ever been in every area EXCEPT packs... that area has gone completely backwards.
A comfortable pack with real suspension should not be though of in terms of lbs & ozs... it doesn't translate.
I'll take my old Osprey Silhouette or Arcteryx Bora 80 over anything on the market currently... they're infinitely comfortable and I'll gladly pay a "weight penalty" to carry them.
I will be more refreshed at the end of the day with the extra 4lbs of a real suspension than a 3lb wonder stripped of everything that makes a pack work comfortably.
I made the switch from externals to internals in 1978 and have used dozens of packs since then... the old Dana's, Osprey's and Arcteryx Bora's are as good as packs ever got.
And BTW, I too had a WM Antelope Super DL... I switched to a WM Versalite and never looked back. Just not a big fan of DL and the Versalite was worth the switch and was able to dump a bit of weight.
Jetboil Sol TI rocks... I still have my circa 1975 Svea 123 and it's still going strong. Also have an MSR WL International, Snow Peak Giga, and first Gen Jetboil... since acquiring the Sol Ti none get used anymore except the WG stoves in winter.
There are a few things that I simply will not budge on, weight be damned, especially since I'm clumsy and tend to be hard on items, and since some items in my kit have withstood the test of time.
Wet Gear: Gear that keeps me dry regardless of the type of precipitation, and is breathable, ie: Gore Tex Pro Shell in my Arc'Teryx Beta AR. It's not light. But at elevation when the weather turns south and I still have a ways to go, I know it will keep me dry, inside and out.
Knife: Strider SMF. I made a long post in another thread about knives, but this knife goes everywhere with me. It's not light either, but the quality of steel, the thickness of the blade, etc, make it a hard use item that I know I can rely on in the worst of circumstances.
Pack: I carry a behemoth Kifaru MMR. It is the complete antithesis of UL. I think the monster is something like 9.5lbs. However, there is only one brand of packs that comes close/is on par with the level of bombproof construction and dream-like suspension on Kifaru packs, and that is Mystery Ranch (obviously just my opinion). On desert hikes where you have no choice but to carry all of your water for extended periods because of infrequent or questionably present water sources, there is no going UL simply because water is so damn heavy. I have yet to find a pack that can carry 50-60lbs or more as comfortably as a Kifaru or Mystery Ranch pack. You have to understand though, that 60lbs is ALWAYS going to have some degree of discomfort. The difference is whether or not that discomfort is exacerbated by poor pack design/suspension, or simply the fact that you have a lot of weight on your back. As a result, however, lighter loads feel like they're not even there with this kind of pack. However, I am in the process of finding a pack to use for less extreme trips where I don't have to carry as much weight.
rocketsocks
03-27-2013, 13:51
What won't you compromise on...
Backup light source...mini/micro bulb
Swiss army knife
Back-up back-up meal...usually cold food/power bars high in protien
2 poly carbonate mirrors..for removing tics from the back of your head or arse, (sometimes these are one and the same) Y head and arse MV
Thread...real thread...I don't sew with floss, but I'll floss w/thread.
moose717
03-27-2013, 14:11
Swordpen ... what camp stool do you use? I have arthritis in my lower back. I got one of those chairs that you put your pad in, but I'm still basically sitting on the ground and it's hard to get up sometimes. Thanks!
Two Speed
03-27-2013, 14:21
The only thing I won't compromise on is food. Everything else is open for consideration, depending on where and when I'm going and how long I plan to be out.
Mystery Ranch packs are infused with Dana Design pack DNA. 'Nuff said.
On the SVEA 123 - I was surprised to find out that my Coleman Peak 1 APEX stove + fuel bottle + pump is slightly lighter than my SVEA stove + fuel bottle + wind screen. The Peak 1 is at the top of my 4 stove list at the moment.
The WM Lite series is most tempting.
Wayne
flemdawg1
03-27-2013, 15:32
In short, for those who lean to the UL side of backpacking, is there anything you won't compromise on no matter what the weight is? I don't want to cut ounces just to cut ounces and I'm factoring in mental morale for a 5-6 month trip.
Sorry for the ramble. :D
I've seen ALOT more broken tent poles than broken trekking poles.
I don't get 6lb packs, my 3lb GG Nimbus Ozone is plenty comfy and more than enough room for anything I would want to carry up and down mountains.
The thing I won't compromise is safety, and real food. My buddy and I went for a 3 day hike on the Pinhoti recently. My buddy brought his 6lb Osprey pack, his 5lb NF tent but to save weight he left his raingear behind thinking it probably won't rain since the chance was only 30%. STUPID. He owns a ULA Catalyst and a TT Contrail. But wanted the extra roomy tent. SMH.
I also EAT every meal. No instant breakfast, no power bars, real food, and coffee in the morning. Yes I know it stops progress to sit down, construct, and eat a cheese and summer sausage wrap for lunch. But I've got 11-15 hours of daylight to use, not going to try to hike 20 miles, and I'm not in a hurry.
The Solemates
03-27-2013, 15:44
the only thinig i wont compromise on is a book. i often go without a tent, but never without a book.
Mystery Ranch packs are infused with Dana Design pack DNA. 'Nuff said.
Well, we'll part company there... I find MR packs highly compromised, fit's-all suspensions gimmicky junk. The bags are beautifully made, the harness/frame is utterly second rate. Wish I felt otherwise, but there it is...
My SVEA stove is one of the 3 choices that I mentioned above. Actually, I have 4 stoves.
Wayne
I hiked with Bandana last year. He carried a SVEA stove that was older than most of the other thru hikers!!!
Wise Old Owl
03-27-2013, 19:59
I don't have a "do not compromise" list. But given the environment I am usually in, my order of priority for shelter is:
1) Rain/moisture protection
2) Insect protection
3) Size
4) Wind protection
5) Weight
6) Warmth
7) Privacy
The privacy one is interesting. I've essentially stopped using a hammock because of it and wind issues.
Poopsy
Wow could not post better.
If I had to blow up a sleeping pad every nite I'd stick to day hikes.
Its a challenge ... you need to work up to us champion old wind bags...
The only thing I won't compromise on is food. Everything else is open for consideration, depending on where and when I'm going and how long I plan to be out.
Me too need a good plan.
Mr. Bumpy
03-27-2013, 20:08
Swordpen ... what camp stool do you use? I have arthritis in my lower back. I got one of those chairs that you put your pad in, but I'm still basically sitting on the ground and it's hard to get up sometimes. Thanks!
I'll give a shout out to the Sling Light chair.
http://slinglight.com/sl
Getting out of it takes some thought but if you can squat to pump water you can get out of the chair. It weighs about the same as a can of beer so it is lighter than some of those metal and plastic jigsaw puzzles that are being sold as chairs. It straps to the outside of your pack so it is easily available for a lunch break. I can go on.
Mr. Bumpy
03-27-2013, 20:10
What won't you compromise on...
A couple of pounds of distilled beverage.
Blackbeard30
03-27-2013, 21:39
No one said gun yet???
moose717
03-27-2013, 21:55
Mr. B that chair looks pretty cool, but a little out of my price range right now. Thanks.
shakey_snake
03-28-2013, 20:24
My current "luxuries" list includes:
coffee mug+filter (will not do instant, will not drink from my 1.3L grease pot. A regular, early morning BM more than compensates for the weight hit this costs)
Fixed blade knife (survivalist instincts just won't let me do without it, yes I do use it)
Space blanket (never gets used, always "just in case". I refuse to be the dumbass that dies of hypothermia.)
Pipe (even if I'm hiking 20 miles a day, If I'm gonna be outside in nice weather, I'm gonna enjoy a good nic hit)
I'm in the process of turning over my decade old gear for more current lightweight gear. My old big 4 weighs in at 12.5lbs and I think I can't get down to 6lbs-ish for next years thru. The only thing I don't see myself reducing weight in is my sleeping pad. 21 years in the military has given me a few more aches and I've turned into a side sleeper. I want some thickness to the sleep pad so my hips don't grind into the ground.
But...the piece of gear that has been the subject of many Google, YouTube, and Whiteblaze searches is my shelter system (currently have an 11 yr old SD Clip Flashlight CD). I'm all over the place with this. One day I'm set on the SMD Trekker, the next day I'm drooling over the Lightheart Solo, then yesterday's thread about the Big Agnes Platinum has me going back to the drawing board. Deep down I'm a traditional tent guy so I've been looking at the Big Agnes UL series pretty much daily. However, I don't want to discount the light weight single wall hiking pole tents, either. The only trouble with the cottage industries is I can't drive to their store and test it out. Other concerns are losing a trekking pole or breaking it (I realize tent poles break as well). Actually, the trekking pole issue is a big concern.
In short, for those who lean to the UL side of backpacking, is there anything you won't compromise on no matter what the weight is? I don't want to cut ounces just to cut ounces and I'm factoring in mental morale for a 5-6 month trip.
Sorry for the ramble. :D
I gotta have a blowup mattress and a good pillow plus a good bag or quilt. everything else is light or left at home and the bag and bedding is my refuge. On the april to october AT and east coast, I like my TT rainbow but there's a lot of 2 pound tents that are good. Tents, I'd look for one that doesn't take up a lot of room once its set up. many of them have lines running out a long ways and you need a big spot to put them on.
No one said gun yet???
gun, no but I do carry a couple of big ole cherry bomb type explosives that weigh about 1 oz each. one and done.
Swordpen
03-30-2013, 15:38
Swordpen ... what camp stool do you use? I have arthritis in my lower back. I got one of those chairs that you put your pad in, but I'm still basically sitting on the ground and it's hard to get up sometimes. Thanks!
Hi Moose,
I am using a Walkstool Basic. Its 23 oz, but supports 320# of weight. Its 20" tall, very steady (all normal height chairs are 18" tall <- like a kitchen chair, thats the industry standard).
The thing is amazing & tough. Its around $49 on Amazon.
Swordpen
03-30-2013, 15:43
Here, the Walkstool Basic is even cheaper on Campsaver $37
http://www.campsaver.com/basic-stool?gclid=CMW_1ZKZpbYCFch7Qgod-mAAQg
I love this thing, honestly, best thing I ever got, sometimes my back hurts, I just have to stop & sit for a bit (& tho, with bad hips, its also hard to get up off the ground kinda).
Pack what you need, just what you need - and leave the rest.
Resist the urge to start going "Well... I might need this and I might need that....." after you have what you need because that is a sure-fire way of ending up with a 30 lb pack.
Nutella
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Only 30#? that's lite!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
For me the one thing I must carry is enough soap to shampoo. Maybe be silly and mental but my head seems clearer if it's cool and washed at regular intervals. LNT or course so I wait until I'm far enough away from the usual stopping (spring, shelters, etc) places. I've even stooped low enough shave. Oh the humility!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Son Driven
01-05-2014, 16:22
Ear Plugs - even it they weighed a pound. Not just for the humans who snore. If you ever been Whooper Willowed? You know what I mean.
I don't compromise on...
Food - I like tasty food and hot coffee
A good night's sleep - I sleep in my hammock, even though I can save a pound using a tent
Pack - it's got to fit right, feel right, and work right, so an extra pound won't hurt to get the right pack
I consider myself a lightweight backpacker - my spring / summer early fall base-weight is somewhere around 14 pounds and I use a combination of store bought (industry) gear, improvised gear, and occasionally some home-made or self-made (Ray-Way) item.
I try to keep my pack weight down because I like to do long distance trips and (for me) covering a lot of ground (i.e. a 25 mile day) is super fun. But my main point is that I backpack for FUN. If I couldn't sleep without a bigger pad then it wouldn't be fun. If it's going to rain cats and dogs and I don't have rain pants and a couple of pair of dry socks and an insulating layer, it's no fun.
So, my suggestion is that you break it all down and lay it all out - - I bet there are a lot of things that you can do without or replace - like ditching a water pump for aqua-mira or getting a lighter weight cook kit but if you have things that you just know you won't be happy without, then keep them in your pack. Enjoy.
In short, for those who lean to the UL side of backpacking, is there anything you won't compromise on no matter what the weight is?
I should work for the U.N., NO!