Trash Fairy - split from: Any theories regarding these trends?

[wacocelt]

I counted 252 people in the Greyson Highlands in a 6 hour period, on a Tuesday. I also witnesses a disabled child get bit by a horse and a group of 6 old folks, huddled around a medic bag, waiting for rescue. Those two instances were within .1 miles of each other.
Thus my motivation to stop hiking north, wipe the slate and start a SoBo hike.

Did I also metion that I saw 4 different fire rings so piled with empty gatorade/soda bottles and snack wrappers that I could barely see the stones comprising the ring?

It is MY opinion that we should take a lesson from the Japanese (the American graphitti artist incident) and require Park Rangers and Ridge Runners to carry ratan canes and apply them to the hind quarters of the ignorant, slovenly masses that leave all that tripe in our public wildlands.

[Jack Tarlin]

The caning incident that Celt refers to took place in the spring of 1994, and it was in Singapore, not Japan.

But Celt's heart is in the right place, and on this matter, I agree with him. Public corporal punishment for vandals is a fine idea.

[A-Train]

Not so sure I would go as far as desiring a cane, but it is awfully frustrating as a Ridgerunner when I have to pack out gallons (literally) of trash after a weekend on the Kitattiny Ridge. I even found a gas grill and coleman fuel can abandoned on the side of the trail yesterday. Oh and did I mention a waffle iron grill at Sunfish Pond? The impact the trail sees during this time of year is way too much for Rangers and Ridgerunners, especially when people blatantly don't follow rules, such as camping illegally and insisting on making fires.

Very frustrating, but not suprising

[SGT Rock]

I concur, I went out to my section yesterday and there was so much trash at a campsite along the Little Tennessee that I didn't have the ability to carry it all out, and I had forgot to bring a lighter, otherwise I would have just made a bonfire and toted the remainder of the trash out. Seems that people think a trash fairy will come and get it all up for them, and a perfectly nice campsite is ruined in the interim.

[Youngblood]

I concur, I went out to my section yesterday and there was so much trash at a campsite along the Little Tennessee that I didn't have the ability to carry it all out, and I had forgot to bring a lighter, otherwise I would have just made a bonfire and toted the remainder of the trash out. Seems that people think a trash fairy will come and get it all up for them, and a perfectly nice campsite is ruined in the interim.
Hmmmm.... Trash Fairy. That's kind of a catchy name. :) All kidding aside, everyone of us that hike the trails appreciate what you and the other trash fairies are doing.

Youngblood

[Jester2000]

Hey Rock, ATrain and other trash fairies -- I've got a question for ya. It's possible that this is just my perception and I'm completely wrong, but does it seem to you that you find the most trash in places closer to the roads? I've packed out a lot of other people's trash over the years, and yet it seems like I never have to carry it that far.

What I see (and again, I could be wrong here) is a lot of people heading in for an overnight and a bit of a party, but not too far. And then leaving behind stuff that was heavier when they packed it in, 'cause they don't need it anymore and they're lazy (and, it should be noted, they weren't really out there for the nature anyway, so who cares if you mess it up). The recent Billville cleanup trip to Whitetop seems to bear this out.

Or am I wrong, and long-distance folk are as much to blame as anyone else?

[Freighttrain]

i know i cant even count how many times ive found neat lil ziplocks full of what looked like, and i consider to be, LDH trash tossed neatly into firerings..... or mtn house wrappers in the firering w a pebble in it to keep wild animals and wind from moving it:D

it still dont add up to anywhere near the trash local drunks leave on trail ....... i say drunks because of the ammount of beer cans and broken/melted beer bottles.

[TJ aka Teej]

Interesting trend towards topic drift :D



Or am I wrong, and long-distance folk are as much to blame as anyone else?
Two or three times a year I clean up the Long Distance Hiker site in Baxter Park. The Rangers clean there almost every day. The Daicey Pond lean-tos were pretty bad, but the Birches gets trashed even more. You'd think by the time LDHs get to Katahdin they'd "get it", but they still leave lots of garbage and litter behind.

[SGT Rock]

Hey Rock, ATrain and other trash fairies -- I've got a question for ya. It's possible that this is just my perception and I'm completely wrong, but does it seem to you that you find the most trash in places closer to the roads? I've packed out a lot of other people's trash over the years, and yet it seems like I never have to carry it that far.

What I see (and again, I could be wrong here) is a lot of people heading in for an overnight and a bit of a party, but not too far. And then leaving behind stuff that was heavier when they packed it in, 'cause they don't need it anymore and they're lazy (and, it should be noted, they weren't really out there for the nature anyway, so who cares if you mess it up). The recent Billville cleanup trip to Whitetop seems to bear this out.

Or am I wrong, and long-distance folk are as much to blame as anyone else?
I would say in my experience that the closer to the trail head the more likely it is to find frequent and HUGE piles of trash. In my recent experience the campsite is actually right on the Little Tennessee river where there is a place you can get a boat right up to the campsite. There were about 5 HUGE plastic tarps left laying around, a barrel full of glass and cans, unburied poop, etc. etc. etc. Just nasty. My guess is a group came in by boat and did all that.

Just for the record, this is the Benton McKaye trail, not the AT.

But, on my previous trip, I took about 5 pounds of trash out of the fire rings in the places that were miles from the road. There was less of it in the scheme of things, the hikers could have easily packed out what they left, they were just not doing it. I have contemplated getting some signs made for those high impact camping sites asking folks to remember to pack the foil, cans, and glass out and not leave them in the fire rings because it hurts the wildlife.

[TDale]

I'm going to propose that Trash Fairies are part of the problem. Cleaning up these sites only encourages the delinquent behavior. These reprobates come for a rowdy weekend and don't see the last weekend's mess because someone cleaned it up for them. Perhaps the first site from the roads in each direction should remain as trashed by the party animals. When it gets nasty enough, mark it as a crime scene.

[jlb2012]

last weekend I carried about 5 pounds of trash out of about 4 or 5 campsites that are a few miles from a road or navigatable river - these were the sites between Ike Branch Tr. junction and the first upstream creek crossing on the Slickrock Cr. Tr. (BMT) - one whiskey bottle, two old propane 1 pound tanks, and the rest tin cans and foil - I don't think too much about it but I have seen that a clean campsite will usually collect less trash than a campsite that is already trashed so I try to clean them up as best as I can.

[SGT Rock]

I'm going to propose that Trash Fairies are part of the problem. Cleaning up these sites only encourages the delinquent behavior. These reprobates come for a rowdy weekend and don't see the last weekend's mess because someone cleaned it up for them. Perhaps the first site from the roads in each direction should remain as trashed by the party animals. When it gets nasty enough, mark it as a crime scene.
I've thought about this, but then again, they would probably just turn it into a dump site and then that would be worse, plus they would probably just move to a pristine spot and turn it into another trashed campsite.

[hiker5]

TDale
I suspect that if those rowdy reprobates saw that there was a mess from last week they would figure that 'Its already a mess, so adding to it isn't going to make a difference'. Of course, that is assuming that they thought about it at all, which is assuming a lot.

[SGT Rock]

last weekend I carried about 5 pounds of trash out of about 4 or 5 campsites that are a few miles from a road or navigatable river - these were the sites between Ike Branch Tr. junction and the first upstream creek crossing on the Slickrock Cr. Tr. (BMT) - one whiskey bottle, two old propane 1 pound tanks, and the rest tin cans and foil - I don't think too much about it but I have seen that a clean campsite will usually collect less trash than a campsite that is already trashed so I try to clean them up as best as I can.
HOI, what day were you out there? I was out cleaning up Sunday afternoon when the rain started, I was working from the trail head below the Choah Dam to the Ike Branch Trail turn. The bad campsite I am talking about was down by the river near the sign for the Ike Branch Trail. It is about .5 miles from the parking down that old FS road.

[jlb2012]

I was there Friday night and Saturday night - Saturday I was back and forth to the car at the Tapoco trailhead to get/return tools to work on trimming the rootball of the scramble around blowdown up on Ike Branch - the second time up Ike Branch in the heat of the afternoon was less than fun. I hiked out Sunday leaving Tapoco at about 11 AM approximately.

[weary]

I'm going to propose that Trash Fairies are part of the problem. Cleaning up these sites only encourages the delinquent behavior. These reprobates come for a rowdy weekend and don't see the last weekend's mess because someone cleaned it up for them. Perhaps the first site from the roads in each direction should remain as trashed by the party animals. When it gets nasty enough, mark it as a crime scene.
Sorry. Trash breeds trash. Once a site is littered, virtually everyone leaves more on the theory, I guess, that a little bit more won't do any harm.

Bad as the conditions are today, things are better than they were in the 60s and 70s when every fireplace had a can dump nearby and few even thought of carrying out their trash.

I buried scores of can dumps before the carry in, carry out ethic began to take hold.

Weary

[SGT Rock]

I was there Friday night and Saturday night - Saturday I was back and forth to the car at the Tapoco trailhead to get/return tools to work on trimming the rootball of the scramble around blowdown up on Ike Branch - the second time up Ike Branch in the heat of the afternoon was less than fun. I hiked out Sunday leaving Tapoco at about 11 AM approximately.
I didn't get up that far, how much of that root system is left to get out - and I assume the log is still there needing cut.

[Skyline]

I'm going to propose that Trash Fairies are part of the problem. Cleaning up these sites only encourages the delinquent behavior. These reprobates come for a rowdy weekend and don't see the last weekend's mess because someone cleaned it up for them.

Sorry, gotta disagree. Trash breeds trash. Ask any shelter maintainer. If you don't keep after it on a regular basis it multiplies big time. Even the "good guys" seem to think it must be OK to not pack it out. By keeping it regularly maintained, only the worst ignoramusus leave their trash behind.

[jlb2012]

I didn't get up that far, how much of that root system is left to get out - and I assume the log is still there needing cut.

As I left it there is about another foot or so of the root ball that should be trimmed off using an axe or pulaski (don't use a good axe - there are still rocks I could not get out with my crowbar that you might hit) - once that is trimmed off I would be inclined to leave it until the sap dries out before cutting anything - I used an el cheapo 7 inch folding saw on the roots I cut and it is rather gummed up at the momment (still need to clean it with some solvent). The current state of the blowdown is what I would call a swing around - its relatively easy to get by - just grap a root / handle that I left and swing around what is left of the root ball - it is no longer necessary to climb down the bank and then back up. If you do decide to saw the main trunk take some oil for the saw with you (Canola oil works OK) and keep the saw well oiled - I am assuming a crosscut saw at this point cause I think this blowdown might be in the wilderness area - it is definately in an area where there are no blazes so I am assuming a big-W area. The cut itself does not look too bad but I am unsure where the tree will go when cut - it could easily land on the trail considering the slope it is on.

[SGT Rock]

Thanks HOI! Yes it is a Wilderness are and a cross cut saw will be required. I'm going to see if I can get on at the BMT opening the weekend of July 16 and then hit that on the way home. My plan this weekend was to take a mattox/maul to the roots with a bow saw and reduce it to the point that someone could get around. The last time I was up there is was a bugger to get past. You've done a world of service getting that thing reduced.

[jlb2012]

in general I dislike bow saws and in fact one of my last rants over on the PATC forum was about managers supplying bow saws instead of the much more useful backless pruning saws - my personal favorite is the 21 inch Corona Pro - big enough to take out 90% or more of the blowdowns that I run into - in fact I was half tempted to use that saw on the main trunk of the blowdown on Ike Branch Tr. but I decided against it after seeing how sappy the still green pine was and I had not brought any oil for the saw - it was a tough decision to make especially after hauling the come-along and straps and hammer and wedges up Ike Branch Tr. - at least the crowbar was useful - a good all around digging, rock moving, blowdown moving tool - the other reason was that the come-along work looked to be slightly questionable - I would have been pulling the root ball down on top of myself assuming I was able to get it to go at all - at first I thought I would just drop the stump/root ball back into the hole it came from but when I got up there it did not look like it would have worked all that well due to the way the soil had been dragged and sort of folded over the bottom side of the root ball. Well anyways that is the story of why I hauled 40 pounds of tools up Ike Branch and ended up using only about 5 pounds of them - sigh.

[The Solemates]

just reading this thread pisses me off. why do people have to be so rude to leave trash around...i dont care how experienced or nonexperienced you are, you should know better. the root of the problem is their upbringing. i know growing up if i acted like that while camping or at home my dad woulda whooped my a$$

[dougmeredith]

the root of the problem is their upbringing. Maybe. For whatever reason, some people just don't care about other people. They do what is easiest for them personally. They don't care about the consequences, or maybe even take joy in the consequences.

Doug