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Boogie Monster
04-05-2013, 21:50
Trail town 'characters' like Ron Haven run businesses don't forget that. Ron told us (and everyone) the San Ran Motel in Robbinsville had a free shutte in and out and $40 hiker rates, they actually charge $5 pp each way and have $70 room rates no hiker rate. We had some bad experiences in Neel Gap too, the shuttles tend to pretend to be free until you buckle up. The San Ran 'forgot' to mention fee until we got to town and took our stuff into our room before his wife 'could make it down to ring us up' then they hit us with the rate. Dishonesty seems to be part of 'southern hospitality' here. Ask and demand rates and prices and if u can stay out of town.

Wise Old Owl
04-05-2013, 21:56
Folks I came back to this first posted and removed the original post for posterity. As this thread progressed it really went bad for a new member Boogie Monster as Ron Haven runs a great business. The real whiner here is BM. He should have asked before getting in the car and could have refused.

Boogie Monster
04-05-2013, 22:02
I would have hitched and gone to the cleaner Microtel, or resupplied hitched out and camped. my bad for trusting false advertisement. The purpose of this post was a reminder that as helpful as people who own the businesses here try to seem they still want as much of your money as they can get. Don't assume. Also to correct Ron Havens misinformation he is giving in Franklin.

Tuckahoe
04-05-2013, 22:56
Is the San Ran Motel one of Ron's. I ask because I dont recall it being mentioned here and I only know of the Budget Inn and the Sapphire Inn in Franklin and the Budget Inn in Hiawassee, Ga. If thats the case how can he be fleecing you or anyone? Your post isnt exactly clear, but it seems like he gave advice on another hotel that might not have been accurate. If my interpretation is correct that sounds more like a mistake, not really fleecing.

Regardless isnt it your responsibility to know and agree on terms before services are provided?

And whats the beef with folks running profitable businesses? Southern hospitality doesnt mean we have to get taken advantage of either.

Train Wreck
04-05-2013, 23:07
Is the San Ran Motel one of Ron's. I ask because I dont recall it being mentioned here and I only know of the Budget Inn and the Sapphire Inn in Franklin and the Budget Inn in Hiawassee, Ga. If thats the case how can he be fleecing you or anyone? Your post isnt exactly clear, but it seems like he gave advice on another hotel that might not have been accurate. If my interpretation is correct that sounds more like a mistake, not really fleecing.

Regardless isnt it your responsibility to know and agree on terms before services are provided?

And whats the beef with folks running profitable businesses? Southern hospitality doesnt mean we have to get taken advantage of either.

Well said.
Seems like that thru-hiker entitlement syndrome just seems to kick in earlier and earlier each year :rolleyes:

10-K
04-05-2013, 23:14
When I hiked the Sheltowee Trace Trail last month I was told that Charit Lodge (a hostel in Big South Fork) had $19 hiker rates...

I hiked in just as it was getting dark and the caretaker built a fire in the hostel's wood stove, fixed a great big dinner for me and the 2 other guests and gave me a towel and some soap for the shower.

Before I went to bed I asked if I could go ahead and pay because I'd be leaving the next morning before dawn and he said "Sure, that's $75."

It didn't occur to me that he was ripping me off.. My first thought was about kicking myself for not asking what the price was *before* I started receiving services.

SOBO_Pace
04-06-2013, 00:18
It's not just in the south it is all along the trail and I actually thought the south was cheaper. I didn't blame them for their shuttle prices. Gas is expensive and your on their clock. I also made it the whole way without having to pay for a shuttle but also did a lot of extra walking.

chief
04-06-2013, 00:59
Really simple, ask the price before committing to the service. If you don't like the answer, move on. Trail providers aren't your friends, most are running a business and you are a customer, nothing more.

Different Socks
04-06-2013, 00:59
When I hiked the Sheltowee Trace Trail last month I was told that Charit Lodge (a hostel in Big South Fork) had $19 hiker rates...

I hiked in just as it was getting dark and the caretaker built a fire in the hostel's wood stove, fixed a great big dinner for me and the 2 other guests and gave me a towel and some soap for the shower.

Before I went to bed I asked if I could go ahead and pay because I'd be leaving the next morning before dawn and he said "Sure, that's $75."

It didn't occur to me that he was ripping me off.. My first thought was about kicking myself for not asking what the price was *before* I started receiving services.

How did he come up with $75? Hostels are meant to be cheap. If I paid $75, I'd want a hotel room.

10-K
04-06-2013, 06:24
There's a big sign out front that says HOSTEL and they have a hostel style bunk room with nothing but beds...

It's more like a low-end Mt. Leconte from what I gather. In fact, the same company that has the contract for Leconte had the contract for Charit Creek but they let it go.

http://www.charitcreeklodge.com/

Boogie Monster
04-06-2013, 06:55
Look negative people, we were told wrong, lots of people were. I posted this to let others know. We were intentionally misled. Hasn't been the first time, no entitlement here just looking for some upfront honesty. Businesses have. Right to charge what they want but its not cool to advertise on a bus panel and have the recipient of the ad money tell everyone wrong. Lots of know it alls on these threads who aren't even out here. Not helpful to be rude people.

10-K
04-06-2013, 07:01
I think the message you were trying to give was lost in the presentation.... You could have said the same thing differently and I suspect had 100% agreement (rare though it is on WB... :) )

Lone Wolf
04-06-2013, 07:10
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

Train Wreck
04-06-2013, 07:14
Look negative people, we were told wrong, lots of people were. I posted this to let others know. We were intentionally misled. Hasn't been the first time, no entitlement here just looking for some upfront honesty. Businesses have. Right to charge what they want but its not cool to advertise on a bus panel and have the recipient of the ad money tell everyone wrong. Lots of know it alls on these threads who aren't even out here. Not helpful to be rude people.

When you make sweeping and judgmental statements like "Dishonesty seems to be part of southern hospitality" on a forum, you can expect some push back from folks who don't feel the same way. Don't confuse "hospitality" with "business for profit". You said you had problems at Neels Gap, in Franklin, and Robbinsville, virtually every stop that you've passed through since Springer. Maybe all you need to do is just take a little more time beforehand to make sure everyone on both sides of the deal understands up front what is free and what is a paid service?
btw, if you continue on the trail, you are going to encounter plenty of "hospitality" in the form of hiker feeds, trail magic, etc. as you make your way northward. Good luck and I really do hope you have a successful and enjoyable hike.

Hairbear
04-06-2013, 07:21
id pay 5 bucks for a ride with almost 4 dollar a gallon fuel. Thats almost a non profit deal.

rickb
04-06-2013, 07:37
Look negative people, we were told wrong, lots of people were. I posted this to let others know. We were intentionally misled. Hasn't been the first time, no entitlement here just looking for some upfront honesty. Businesses have. Right to charge what they want but its not cool to advertise on a bus panel and have the recipient of the ad money tell everyone wrong. Lots of know it alls on these threads who aren't even out here. Not helpful to be rude people.

What did the people checking you in say when you informed them Ron Haven had told you and many other hikers hat the San Ran rooms would be just $40?

Don H
04-06-2013, 07:51
Ron's shuttle policy can be found here:http://www.ronhavenhikerservices.com/free_guest_Shuttle.htm

I stayed at two of Ron's hotels and was pleased with the service. He is reasonable and up front with his costs.
I'm sure Ron didn't intentionally give you incorrect information on the shuttle cost. I don't believe he owns or operates the San Ran Inn in Robbinsville. At least he does not list it on his website. He posts here occasionally, maybe he'll weigh in.

moytoy
04-06-2013, 08:20
Like any hotel if there is a "convention" in town the special rate does not apply. I talked to the San Ran this morning and they quoted $50+tax for a single hiker in the room. Just remember that everything is negotiable if you negotiate before the service is provided. I'm sure Ron Haven would not have misled you on purpose and if had been one of his motels he would have honored his word.

Trail Bug
04-06-2013, 08:31
Never had a problem with any of the places or people mentioned in this thread. I think a lot of this starts with trail magic. You start giving thru hikers free stuff right from the start and before long they start to feel entitled. I wish the magic would start further down the trail to help weed out the freeloaders.

Wise Old Owl
04-06-2013, 08:44
Look negative people, we were told wrong, lots of people were. I posted this to let others know. We were intentionally misled. Hasn't been the first time, no entitlement here just looking for some upfront honesty. Businesses have. Right to charge what they want but its not cool to advertise on a bus panel and have the recipient of the ad money tell everyone wrong. Lots of know it alls on these threads who aren't even out here. Not helpful to be rude people.

After seeing the ad and understanding what is happening, I question why we are having the discussion, I offer a "free bedbug inspection" but if I find them I am not going to do a free treatment. And sometimes its carpet beetles in the bed. Ron is running a business and gas & time to a limited group of hotels is understandable.


Really simple, ask the price before committing to the service. If you don't like the answer, move on. Trail providers aren't your friends, most are running a business and you are a customer, nothing more.

Ditto many of the same things were said if you internationally travel.


When you make sweeping and judgmental statements like "Dishonesty seems to be part of southern hospitality" on a forum, you can expect some push back from folks who don't feel the same way. Don't confuse "hospitality" with "business for profit". You said you had problems at Neels Gap, in Franklin, and Robbinsville, virtually every stop that you've passed through since Springer. Maybe all you need to do is just take a little more time beforehand to make sure everyone on both sides of the deal understands up front what is free and what is a paid service?
btw, if you continue on the trail, you are going to encounter plenty of "hospitality" in the form of hiker feeds, trail magic, etc. as you make your way northward. Good luck and I really do hope you have a successful and enjoyable hike.


good post TW, BM you were not intentionally misled, but you certainly are not having the right conversation or interacting with the drivers.

ChuckBrown
04-06-2013, 08:49
I have had nothing but great experiences on my hikes in the South. Except,In 2000,I went into Robbinsville, before Microtel.I went to both the small hotels, and neither would rent me a room. So I left and went to Hike INN. At least OP got a room, I call that Progress.

Jack Tarlin
04-06-2013, 10:41
I take great exception to the negative comments about shuttle services at Neel Gap. I have known the staff shuttlers there for years, and they make it extremely clear what a ride will cost. On many occasions I have seen them give people free rides and not charge them a cent. On short-term rides (like down the road a few miles so a hiker can get cigarettes, etc.) it has long been the practice for the hiker to throw in some money for gas/expenses......as of course they should. But to imply that there's anything under-handed, shifty, or deceptive about the good folks (Lumpy, for example, is something of a saint) who shuttle hikers at Neel Gap is a malicious falsehood. (Please note----this applies to STAFF shuttlers or the reputable local people we will recommend or steer hikers towards, and this is VERY short list. If hikers accept a ride from non staff/official shuttlers at Neel Gap or anywhere else, it is up to the hiker to find out up front and beforehand whether or not a fee/cost is involved; likewise, people who offer rides to hikers should also make it clear at the outset if they expect compensation. This cuts down on surprises later on down the road).

SOBO_Pace
04-06-2013, 11:27
Never had a problem with any of the places or people mentioned in this thread. I think a lot of this starts with trail magic. You start giving thru hikers free stuff right from the start and before long they start to feel entitled. I wish the magic would start further down the trail to help weed out the freeloaders.

+1
I didn't notice the entitlement in the sobos nearly as much as the nobos.

Rocket Jones
04-06-2013, 11:36
I think the OP's main complaint is that Ron Haven is passing along bad info. He may have been given the wrong info by the original businesses or things may have changed. I didn't take it to mean Ron is in on the "fleece", just that we tend to trust Ron as one of the good guys and don't often question his info.

The solutions provided above are simple: always ask ahead of time what the services cost and what they consist of. Even if it's more than expected, you can then decide if it's still worth the expense.

Groomez
04-06-2013, 11:40
Is the San Ran Motel one of Ron's. I ask because I dont recall it being mentioned here and I only know of the Budget Inn and the Sapphire Inn in Franklin and the Budget Inn in Hiawassee, Ga. If thats the case how can he be fleecing you or anyone? Your post isnt exactly clear, but it seems like he gave advice on another hotel that might not have been accurate. If my interpretation is correct that sounds more like a mistake, not really fleecing.

Regardless isnt it your responsibility to know and agree on terms before services are provided?

And whats the beef with folks running profitable businesses? Southern hospitality doesnt mean we have to get taken advantage of either.

Exactly, it'd be dumb not to set up a business near the trail. Especially if you live in the area

atraildreamer
04-06-2013, 11:42
id pay 5 bucks for a ride with almost 4 dollar a gallon fuel. Thats almost a non profit deal.

I agree with Hairbear:

"The IRS has released mileage reimbursement rates for 2013:

The standard mileage rate for transportation or travel expenses is 56.5 cents per mile for all miles of business use (business standard mileage rate)."

Multiply 56.5 cents per mile by the miles to the pick-up, then add the miles to the drop-off and double the answer( The shuttle driver has to drive back.) Then figure routine repairs, wear and tear, their time, etc. Add a bit for profit (after all...it is a business). Quit complaining, and tip the driver!

goedde2
04-06-2013, 12:03
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

If that would be the case, why then is The Hike Inn, near Fontana Dam/Robbinsville, NC, recommended in the AT Guidebook by "AWOL"? All things considered, and realizing it seems to be a "hikers only" service, it appears the "hiker package" is very reasonable, with the shuttle to Robbinsville for a good meal and re-supply at a real market, one load of laundry, and a ride back to the Dam, etc. I have no quarrel with your logic, because I think you are in agreement with me that "hikers" shouldn't automatically assume they should get a break, just for being a "hiker". Just sayin'

max patch
04-06-2013, 12:03
There's a big sign out front that says HOSTEL and they have a hostel style bunk room with nothing but beds...

It's more like a low-end Mt. Leconte from what I gather. In fact, the same company that has the contract for Leconte had the contract for Charit Creek but they let it go.

http://www.charitcreeklodge.com/

I don't know anything about Charit Creek but thanks for the link - my Dad went to Big South Fork and said I would like it so its on my short list of places to get to.

If its like LeConte (location, location, location) then the price seems reasonable. LeConte gets $126 per person per nite.

Ron Haven
04-06-2013, 12:18
Boogie,
I don't own the San Ran motel and I haven't had a complaint until now. I will check into it. For many years i have tried with all my heart to be a trail sevant to the trail in my community. I have hiked in to save peoples life, work 14 hours a day for 2 months a year to help, leaving my family for the thru hikers. Many think I need your money.

In return, I have been liad to, stole from, complained about by bums who need attention like a child, all pointing a finger at me. My family has continouslly asking me why am I so stupid? We in 2014, I am going to listen to my family for a change. No more shuttles! No more answering the phone listing to bums, thieves liars, free loaders at other motels wanting me to change my schedules just for them and haul them for free.

I am going to lower my motel rates for those staying in Franklin or Hiawassee but you have got to get in and out the best way you can. I know it will be a hard ship for good people but We think it is best. I my continue one more year of the hiker bash so I can say I did it for 10 years, then I am going to stop it.

Loyal friends for so many years on the trail, God bless and all of you know you are close to my heart. I will always continue our gatherings and the free rooms for our Christmas Party for you. Love always Ron Haven,

alxflwrs
04-06-2013, 12:25
I would have hitched and gone to the cleaner Microtel, or resupplied hitched out and camped. my bad for trusting false advertisement. The purpose of this post was a reminder that as helpful as people who own the businesses here try to seem they still want as much of your money as they can get. Don't assume. Also to correct Ron Havens misinformation he is giving in Franklin.
Dang Boogie, I'm sorry you had that happen to you! If you're still around, or other members, who's Ron Haven?

alxflwrs
04-06-2013, 12:34
-finishes thread, inserts foot in mouth-

Another Kevin
04-06-2013, 12:48
I agree with Hairbear:

"The IRS has released mileage reimbursement rates for 2013:

The standard mileage rate for transportation or travel expenses is 56.5 cents per mile for all miles of business use (business standard mileage rate)."

Multiply 56.5 cents per mile by the miles to the pick-up, then add the miles to the drop-off and double the answer( The shuttle driver has to drive back.) Then figure routine repairs, war and tear, their time, etc. Add a bit for profit (after all...it is a business). Quit complaining, and tip the driver!

The IRS rate is supposed to account for wear&tear and vehicle depreciation but NOT the driver's time. A buck a mile (double that if the driver will be deadheading one way) is reasonable most places.

Tuckahoe
04-06-2013, 12:53
I agree with Hairbear:

"The IRS has released mileage reimbursement rates for 2013:

The standard mileage rate for transportation or travel expenses is 56.5 cents per mile for all miles of business use (business standard mileage rate)."

Multiply 56.5 cents per mile by the miles to the pick-up, then add the miles to the drop-off and double the answer( The shuttle driver has to drive back.) Then figure routine repairs, war and tear, their time, etc. Add a bit for profit (after all...it is a business). Quit complaining, and tip the driver!

Another way of considering the cost is to consider the cost of a taxi, which in my city is $3.50+ per mile. Now how is that $50, 30 mile shuttle looking?

Tuckahoe
04-06-2013, 12:57
In return, I have been liad to, stole from, complained about by bums who need attention like a child, all pointing a finger at me. My family has continouslly asking me why am I so stupid? We in 2014, I am going to listen to my family for a change. No more shuttles! No more answering the phone listing to bums, thieves liars, free loaders at other motels wanting me to change my schedules just for them and haul them for free.

And people wonder we cant have nice things...

SGT Rock
04-06-2013, 15:19
Ron Haven has been going out of his way for years to do this. If you have ever spent time with him in town just hanging out with him in hiking season you would know how hard it is on his family and personal time for those couple of months. It also isn't cheap, but most have already covered this...

I remember back when he started doing the free shuttle into Franklin and I was frankly amazed he was doing this considering the effort and the cost. And when I stayed with him almost a week in 2009, I was frankly surprised he had been making this work for so long. And for the most part I saw hikers that greatly appreciated his help but did their thing and get back on the trail. But every year it seems more and more people expect this to be done for free. They expect that everyone along the trail is going to be giving them a deal, and cater to them because it is so hard to be a hiker. It seems you can give some people free cake and they'll complain about the frosting.

Anyhow, Ron, your service will be missed. Hikers in the years to come will quickly figure out how much that ride into Franklin really meant. Maybe someone can start a pay shuttle service into town like the Cherokee Transit is doing in the Smokies, although without the casino to help foot the bill like they do for Cherokee/Gatlinburg, it will certainly cost a lot more.

RED-DOG
04-06-2013, 15:29
You will see this problem on the entire trail from GA-ME, just make sure before you except a ride from a shuttler or motel, hostel, ETC ask them what their rate is and don't put your stuff in their property, car, motel room, if you do you are obligated to pay whatever they charge. I have seen this problem on all three of My thru-Hikes. And they will GAUGE you to death if you let them.

Lone Wolf
04-06-2013, 15:37
i'm surprised you lasted this long ron, helpin' out the ungrateful.

RED-DOG
04-06-2013, 15:39
Most places on the AT don't have hiker rates just a few far and between. and yes most thru-hikers think they are entitled to the so called hiker rates only because their hiking the world famous AT.

SGT Rock
04-06-2013, 15:41
http://www.aldha.org/ethics.htm

FatMan
04-06-2013, 15:45
This thread is shameful. Does the OP really believe that Ron Haven intentionally mislead him? Give me a break. Ron has been helping hikers and providing excellent services to hikers for years. Looks like the OP needs to take on some personal responsibility and learn to ask questions before accepting services. How hard is that? And why should any hiker ever expect a shuttle to be free? And if it is free, should the hiker not automatically offer a tip commensurate to the service provided anyway? Like I said, this thread is shameful.

SGT Rock
04-06-2013, 15:50
There is at least one every year for any service on the trail. Ron has been helping so many people for about 10 years (as I recall) that there is always bound to be one popping up. Ron has been trying to get Robbinsville to be a more friendly trail town for a couple of years now, and except for the customary places like The Hike Inn and Fontana Village, he has met some resistance from the community who seem to have frankly no use for hikers.

Therunner1Guy
04-06-2013, 15:51
Maybe it's just me, but I would never take a ride, a meal, a room, etc. without a) knowing the cost b) offering something in return, even if it's only a few bucks. The guy has to make a living.

HikerMom58
04-06-2013, 16:06
Wow, this thread is enlightening to say the least. It's clear to see the clash between "Trail Angel's" kind deeds and ones that are offering services for part/most of their lively hood. Then, you throw in hikers that expect everyone to be TA's because of who they are or the way they think/learned it "should be". This proves to be an interesting mix of interactions and expectations.

First off, I will say that hikers should expect NOTHING. I'm not a thru hiker, myself, but if I was, I would expect NOTHING free from anyone. None of the hikers should expect any SPECIAL treatment/deals.

Having said that, I can see where people could take advantage of hikers b/c they don't have their own transportation, while hiking the trail. Also, carrying "good food" on your back, for a long time, leaves something to be desired. There's a lot to be said about comfy lodging, laundry facilities & a hot shower. Hikers shouldn't be "taken advantage of" for these services, either. Thru hikers might need to pay a lil more, though, for the level of "clean up"that might be required after their stay. It all depends...

Hummm...... interesting!!

slow mind
04-06-2013, 16:23
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do."
Ben Franklin

Smile
04-06-2013, 16:24
Thanks Ron for all you have done for hikers over the years, it's too bad you have not been appreciated as perhaps you should have been!
I've utilized your services in the past, one time when I was injured and I was more than thankful that the van showed up. The small cost of the
shuttle was more than worth it - priceless to be able to 'bail' when injured with no hassle, just a very short wait.
I'm in your corner, your family comes first. They are what matter more than anything :)

TD55
04-06-2013, 16:39
The OP was malicious, to say the least. Wether due to a lack of maturity, experiance or intelligence, the poster was unable to conduct simple busness transactions and when given the oppurtunity to refuse of back away from those transactions he failed to speak up for himself. Rather than evaluate and analyze his weakness and learn from it, he chose to take his grudge to the internet and lash out at those who exposed his lack of maturity. It would have been exposed only to hmself and perhaps a few friends. Thanks to his foolish post he has exposed his lack of manliness to the world. Dumb.

atraildreamer
04-06-2013, 16:45
Another way of considering the cost is to consider the cost of a taxi, which in my city is $3.50+ per mile. Now how is that $50, 30 mile shuttle looking?

In Providence, the meter ticks off $2 when the trip starts. Then it is $0.25 every 1/10 mile ($2.50 per mile). A 3 mile trip is $9.50. That $50, 30 mile shuttle ride will set you back $77 if you took a taxi. Expect it to go up as fuel costs increase. The days of cheap gasoline are over. Learn to live with it and pony up.

(BTW, the bus costs $2.50 a ride & $0.50 for a transfer.)

wyclif
04-06-2013, 17:02
This is not rocket surgery, folks.

Two quick points to add to what is sure to be a contentious thread:

1. Whatever happened to the Golden Rule? Don't hikers know gas is expensive now, as well as the wear and tear inherent in owning, insuring, and operating a vehicle? Not to mention the time these kind people spend shuttling strangers to and fro. Do hikers consider the time of the people offering the service, as well as the material cost? Same goes for hostels, motels, and hotels. Why is it considered unreasonable for hikers to behave themselves, have good manners, and do unto others as they would have others do unto them? If you're hiking you should consider yourself on vacation. Nobody owes you anything. You're not entitled to anything for free, and if by God's good graces you do get to partake of some good trail magic and hiker feeds you should be grateful. But don't just be grateful yourself, express gratefulness and thanks to those who have helped you.

2. If you're considering patronizing a given service, you should know what the fee is up front. If you don't, it's your fault, not the fault of the people you're patronizing. The onus is on you to know where you are staying, how much it costs, and what is offered.

Slo-go'en
04-06-2013, 17:17
That's too bad Ron, that a few bad apples can ruin it for everyone. Although, I suspect it's more like a bushel or two, eh?

Back in my caretaker days I found 98% of those who passed by just came and went, not leaving an impression one way or the other. About 1% were a real PITA to deal with and wished they'd go away as quickly as possible. Then there was that 1% which made the whole thing worth doing.

Old Hiker
04-06-2013, 17:24
OP joined 24 Mar 2013. Had 4 (four!) posts. And we are responding?!? Especially knowing Mr. Haven?

Mr. Haven, if you are still reading, you were great in Mar 2012. Learned a LOT from you - got some GREAT advice. You knew my hometown in Texas. Sorry it came to this. Hope you can find time to relax a bit now. I'll miss you in 2016.

Take care - God bless - thank you for what you've done.

Coffee
04-06-2013, 18:19
I never realized that the market economy stops along the AT. Personally I would never expect anything from anyone at any time without offering compensation for the service and I would never get into a transaction without knowing in advance what the cost will be. This is pretty basic consumer behavior. Isn't long distance backpacking about self sufficiency? How is it being self sufficient to rely on getting free or heavily discounted stuff just for being a hiker? Call me confused.

Loneoak
04-06-2013, 19:25
Another one in Ron's corner. Sorry it came to this Ron, but your are surely right when it comes to family first. Thanks for all the yrs you have put into helping others, even the ones who didn't even say thanks. I know myself and family were treated right and enjoyed our stay in Franklin.

Lyle
04-06-2013, 19:32
Ron,

The hiker in me says "Sorry to hear you are cutting back. Your excellent services will be missed by the hiking community." The normal citizen in me says "Good for you, good for your family."

If there has gotten to be more ungrateful hikers out there (or a high enough percentage) to sour you on your mission of service, then you should cut it back to a more manageable commitment. Thank you for all the years you made our hikes better.

I only stayed in Franklin once, at the Budget Inn. We got our own ride into town, arrived about 9PM. This was in mid May, outside of your normal shuttle times. We were not expecting a ride back to the trail, but in the morning, you fired up the bus and gave about 8 hikers a lift. It was very much appreciated. You also told us, if we ever needed assistance, no matter where we were along the trail, and couldn't find anyone to assist, give you a call, and you would employ your MANY contacts all along the trail to help us out. This was such a generous and impressive offer. Never forgot it.

Again, thank you for all your years of dedication to hikers. You certainly would not remember me, but I certainly DO remember you!

atraildreamer
04-06-2013, 20:12
This thread is shameful. Does the OP really believe that Ron Haven intentionally mislead him? Give me a break. Ron has been helping hikers and providing excellent services to hikers for years. ...

In recognition of his years of hard work and loyal service to the hiking community, Ron Haven is hereby awarded the following:

20981

You will be missed Ron, but not forgotten! :)

atraildreamer
04-06-2013, 20:16
In recognition of his years of hard work and loyal service to the hiking community, Ron Haven is hereby awarded the following:

20981

You will be missed Ron, but not forgotten! :)


Anyone who disagrees with the above-mentioned award for Ron is hereby awarded the following certificate:

20982

Feel free to print it out and fill in your name. :eek::banana

Dances with Mice
04-06-2013, 20:32
Look negative people,....Well aren't you just a shining light of positivity!
.... Dishonesty seems to be part of 'southern hospitality' here. ....
...We were intentionally misled.... You posted some serious accusations there, Sparky. Got anything to back it up?

Also to correct Ron Havens misinformation he is giving in Franklin.So you contacted Ron first before posting, right? Right?!
Not helpful to be rude people.Damn! I bought a brand new shiny irony meter and you just smoked it.

Marta
04-06-2013, 21:15
Ron has never been anything but kind, generous, and one of the best all-around folks to spend a few hours with that I've ever met.

I hope your family's wanderings will lead you to Montana one of these summers, Ron. I'd be pleased to return even a tenth of the kindness y'all have shown me!

gunner76
04-06-2013, 21:18
While I have never had a chance to stay at any of Ron's places I also keep his phone # and address to his hotels handy so when I am traveling thru his area because I know that is where I want to stay if I get a chance. I have never met the man but from everything I have read about him and his replies on the forum I believe that if he did give out bad info it was only because that is what he was told. A big thanks to Ron for all his support of the hikers over the years.

Kookork
04-06-2013, 21:30
Boogie Monster, I am a 2014 prospect Thru hiker and thanks to your rush judgment I wont be able to meet and enjoy Ron's presence. Would you please pick me up where run used to help hikers? I will pay you more.

rainmaker
04-06-2013, 21:31
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

Couldn't agree more. The idea that long distance hikers and now in my case, long distance cyclists, are entitled to discounts and special perks is pathetic. If someone wishes to lower their price for a motel room, that's fine but it should not be expected. In my last hike through New England I found that paying the regular rate and tipping appropriately resulted in everybody being happy, me for the services I received and the provider for being appreciated. I also found that communications helped avoid misunderstandings.

HikerMom58
04-06-2013, 21:43
Couldn't agree more. The idea that long distance hikers and now in my case, long distance cyclists, are entitled to discounts and special perks is pathetic. If someone wishes to lower their price for a motel room, that's fine but it should not be expected. In my last hike through New England I found that paying the regular rate and tipping appropriately resulted in everybody being happy, me for the services I received and the provider for being appreciated. I also found that communications helped avoid misunderstandings.

I agree... it's so confusing! Misunderstandings seem to abound currently..... blah!

Don H
04-06-2013, 21:50
Ron, before making that decision please consider all those who support and appreciate what you do.

in 2011 I stayed with you at the Budget in Franklin. You picked up our group at the trail and brought us to town. The you took us to the outfitters and grocery store. The next morning you took us back to the trail, all for the cost of a room, which I believe was $40. I appreciate what you did. Thank you!

soilman
04-06-2013, 22:34
I stayed at the Budget Inn in Franklin on my 2010 thru. I got to town via my thumb, but took the shuttle back to the trail and enjoyed Ron's commentary along the way. Ron is very knowledgeable about the trail and tells a good story. This is an unfortunate turn for future hikers. Another example of "endangered services" that ALDHA discusses. Back in the 70's there was not the infrastructure along the trail that exists today. I am afraid that hiker bad behavior may result in undoing a lot of the good will that has built up over the years and unfortunately many hikers expect. I am sure that many have witnessed other episodes that don't paint the AT hiker in a good light. As I posted last year, some hikers think that they are rock stars because they are attempting to hike the length of the AT, and you know how rock stars behave.

Cookerhiker
04-06-2013, 23:09
I'm sorry that Ron's been subject to such boorish and ungrateful behavior that he's had to make this decision but I understand. He's been more patient than most of us would have been.

Regarding paying for shuttles, on my Colorado Trail thruhike, I stayed in two excellent and well-known hostels - Simple Lodge in Salida and the Leadville Hostel. Both very hiker friendly. And both charged a reasonable fee for shuttling, even if you were a guest. No problems whatsoever.

Cookerhiker
04-06-2013, 23:14
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

You know Wolf after reading your post, my first thought was to one-up you and say let's get rid of the Companion and ask AWOL to stop his guide - let hikers find their own ways like the old days. But of course, that punishes the X% who don't cause problems or act like entitled a-holes. A fleeting thought.

Bearpaw
04-06-2013, 23:27
Thank you for every thing you've done and I'm sure will continue to do Ron. You are one of the folks that makes he trail a special place.

In 1999, I walked about 4 miles in rain down to the RV campground and phoned into Franklin to get a cab. (Nobody was picking up a soaked hiker.). Franklin was still a great memory. I'm sure folks who have to work a little more will still appreciate Franklin, maybe even more.

Lone Wolf
04-07-2013, 01:50
You know Wolf after reading your post, my first thought was to one-up you and say let's get rid of the Companion and ask AWOL to stop his guide - let hikers find their own ways like the old days. But of course, that punishes the X% who don't cause problems or act like entitled a-holes. A fleeting thought.

i hear ya. i do meet some wonderful folks that walk through damascus

Rasty
04-07-2013, 05:57
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

You know Wolf after reading your post, my first thought was to one-up you and say let's get rid of the Companion and ask AWOL to stop his guide - let hikers find their own ways like the old days. But of course, that punishes the X% who don't cause problems or act like entitled a-holes. A fleeting thought.

Would also hurt many section hikers. Some of us section hikers are nice and not too nasty!

Mrs Baggins
04-07-2013, 06:04
I never thought Ron didn't charge. As he absolutely should have been doing all along. A friend and I had him shuttle us up to Wayah Bald in 2008, he told us the fee upfront, and we paid. No argument. We didn't get as far as Fontana, as we'd planned, and called for a ride from Stecoah Gap back to Franklin - - he sent someone and we paid. Period. We stayed at his hotels and paid whatever he said the cost was. We thoroughly appreciated all he did for us.

Cookerhiker
04-07-2013, 06:42
Would also hurt many section hikers. Some of us section hikers are nice and not too nasty!

As a section hiker myself, how could I not agree?:)

10-K
04-07-2013, 07:00
There is SO much information in these guidebooks about what's ahead that I can't see how it doesn't take at least some of the fun out of a hike. You really don't have to think very much - just walk to wherever the guidebook says to whatever it is you need.

I'm waiting on Fodor's to buy rights to "The AT Guide" and publish their own travel guide. :)

Chaco Taco
04-07-2013, 07:36
Trail town 'characters' like Ron Haven run businesses don't forget that. Ron told us (and everyone) the San Ran Motel in Robbinsville had a free shutte in and out and $40 hiker rates, they actually charge $5 pp each way and have $70 room rates no hiker rate. We had some bad experiences in Neel Gap too, the shuttles tend to pretend to be free until you buckle up. The San Ran 'forgot' to mention fee until we got to town and took our stuff into our room before his wife 'could make it down to ring us up' then they hit us with the rate. Dishonesty seems to be part of 'southern hospitality' here. Ask and demand rates and prices and if u can stay out of town.
Hmm and how the heck is this Ron's fault? He does not need to keep up with other motels that may change their policy? Thats not his problem. Where in Neel Gap does it say anything is free? Nothing is free dude. You have to pay just like any other tourist. I may not agree with LW on just about anything, but he is right, shut all of the hiker rate crap down. Thru's choose to be unemployed. You dont ever see Hostel owners come on here and complain about the countless theft's, getting ripped off and having needy, entitled thruhiker's whine and complain. See, its also the stuff we dont hear about. I have friend that was hiking near franklin and almost froze to death. Guess who drove out to get hiim in the wee hours of the morning? How is that for "fleecing"? Get a life Boogie or do everyone a favor, and go home.

Cookerhiker
04-07-2013, 08:44
There is SO much information in these guidebooks about what's ahead that I can't see how it doesn't take at least some of the fun out of a hike. You really don't have to think very much - just walk to wherever the guidebook says to whatever it is you need....:)

You know there, there's something to that. I spent an enormous amount of time preparing for my would-be Allegheny Trail thruhike in 2010 because of the minimal resources e.g. no guides to services, little-to-no shuttlers, limited offerings in "trail towns" such that they were. And I enjoyed it.

Ron Haven
04-07-2013, 09:07
Hmm and how the heck is this Ron's fault? He does not need to keep up with other motels that may change their policy? Thats not his problem. Where in Neel Gap does it say anything is free? Nothing is free dude. You have to pay just like any other tourist. I may not agree with LW on just about anything, but he is right, shut all of the hiker rate crap down. Thru's choose to be unemployed. You dont ever see Hostel owners come on here and complain about the countless theft's, getting ripped off and having needy, entitled thruhiker's whine and complain. See, its also the stuff we dont hear about. I have friend that was hiking near franklin and almost froze to death. Guess who drove out to get hiim in the wee hours of the morning? How is that for "fleecing"? Get a life Boogie or do everyone a favor, and go home.Chaco, thanks and for all of you I have met, and all of my hiker friends I have met thru thru the years. I am in Tulsa. Oklahoma on business but I covered shuttlers befor I left. Two are working out sorder bad and my wife is doing most of the shuttling since Friday, I will be home later today to take over and let her be mom. Yes O want to continue helping hikers, but if I do I am just going to tighten the screws and so no to disrespectful people.

I don;t run to other motels for pick up because of conflict in my scedule. Last week I had a hiker call me and begged for a shuttle from Microtel on Sat for a Sunday morning shuttle. Said he called all and everyone said no. Please I got to catch my group. I agreed to pick him up at 7:30 so I could be back for my 9am shuttle. I told him about my guest shuttle and had to be back to Franklin by 8:30, he said. I will be ready to go straight back to Rock gap at 7:30

I arrived and called his cell and he wasn't even out of the bed. Then he forgot fuel and wanted to stop at 3 Eagles. I had to go by and show the fool that they opened at noon on Sunday. Then he ask to stop at Burger King for something to go. I eaited in the car and he ordered and set down to eat, I went in and ask to come and get his pak. It was already 8:20 and so I was late by 15 minutes but my guest understood.

One of my shuttlers picked up section hikers at the NOC a few days late and said they run into a hiker begging fuel because that sorry Ron Haven wouldn't wait for him to go into the outfitter, I had a lady threating me with aldha a few days laterbecause I wouldn't come for her at Microtel at her demand. Since I have had hikers demand me come to Hampton Inn, Colonial Inn, Comfort Inn, Nights Inn and other peoples home. Where does it end with these people.

If I do continue next year I am not allowing anyone in my vehicles except my guest, I will provide a list of shuttlers online, and I did tell San Ran had rooms fro $39.99 with a free shuttle. He said: people were calling wantind picked up at NOC, Fontana, Yellow fork Gap and othe places. I stated every time he anly picks up at Stecoah. He got tired of the crap and stopped it. Ony problem was is he didn't call me. Sorry Boogie but I didn't know. I will stop giving any info to hikers. This is why they have guide books.

But personally at Neels Gap these are my friends and I think they do a great job but nothing is free there, Winton, Pirate, Jack, and Lumpy are all working hard with the truth and for you and all hikers.

Sailor (The other one)
04-07-2013, 11:10
I take great exception to the negative comments about shuttle services at Neel Gap. I have known the staff shuttlers there for years, and they make it extremely clear what a ride will cost. On many occasions I have seen them give people free rides and not charge them a cent. On short-term rides (like down the road a few miles so a hiker can get cigarettes, etc.) it has long been the practice for the hiker to throw in some money for gas/expenses......as of course they should. But to imply that there's anything under-handed, shifty, or deceptive about the good folks (Lumpy, for example, is something of a saint) who shuttle hikers at Neel Gap is a malicious falsehood. (Please note----this applies to STAFF shuttlers or the reputable local people we will recommend or steer hikers towards, and this is VERY short list. If hikers accept a ride from non staff/official shuttlers at Neel Gap or anywhere else, it is up to the hiker to find out up front and beforehand whether or not a fee/cost is involved; likewise, people who offer rides to hikers should also make it clear at the outset if they expect compensation. This cuts down on surprises later on down the road).


+1.
Iíve benefitted from the generosity of Neel Gap shuttlers twice Ė in one case a free 36-mile round trip.
Iím not writing this to defend the good people who have been maligned. Iím writing to encourage people new to the trail not to make my mistakes. Iím a selfish, self-centered, pessimistic cynic who expected the worst from people along the AT, especially business people. Wrong. (I wrote the details in a long version of these experiences here (http://here/)). This includes people I was paying, who went beyond what I was paying for, and people who could have ethically charged me when I was in difficulty and did not. I have had only one bad experience with an employee who I hope no longer works for the hiker-oriented business involved, but in every other case I have been amazed at how helpful and ethical people along the AT have been.

wcgornto
04-07-2013, 11:59
I don;t run to other motels for pick up because of conflict in my scedule. Last week I had a hiker call me and begged for a shuttle from Microtel on Sat for a Sunday morning shuttle. Said he called all and everyone said no. Please I got to catch my group. I agreed to pick him up at 7:30 so I could be back for my 9am shuttle. I told him about my guest shuttle and had to be back to Franklin by 8:30, he said. I will be ready to go straight back to Rock gap at 7:30

I arrived and called his cell and he wasn't even out of the bed. Then he forgot fuel and wanted to stop at 3 Eagles. I had to go by and show the fool that they opened at noon on Sunday. Then he ask to stop at Burger King for something to go. I eaited in the car and he ordered and set down to eat, I went in and ask to come and get his pak. It was already 8:20 and so I was late by 15 minutes but my guest understood.


Well, your patience is far greater than mine. I might have given five minutes around 7:30 to allow for a watch not being correctly set, but that's about it. Plus, I wouldn't have indulged the side trips given the prior conversation about scheduling and timing for picking up your regular guests.

I think it is wise for you to put boundaries in place and adjust your services to place more emphasis on family. It is just unfortunate that a few demanding, entitled, ungrateful bad apples cause you and others such direct hardship and spoil service availability for everyone else all along the AT.

I was most grateful for your services in November 2009 as I neared completion of my SOBO thru hike, as your stellar reputation preceded my visit and my experiences simply validated all of the great things I had beard beforehand. Best wishes to you and your family in all that you do.

Donde
04-07-2013, 12:01
+1 Ask the cost first.

Also talking **** about somebody who has going to great lengths for hikers since before I had hair under my arms, without anything to substantiate it, is lousy.

It seems like the trail is overrun with entitled tourists who will do this trail and this trail only, one time to cross it off some list. These a-holes don't even seem to like hiking ( i.e. I am not going to do Amicola 'cause it doesn't count, I'm going to stay in town every two GD days). Dirtbag freeloaders and criminals have ruined Everest, and are well on their way to ruining the AT. I'm starting to like the Ouachita better than the AT just there ain't any A-holes on it.

V Eight
04-07-2013, 12:09
Trail town 'characters' like Ron Haven run businesses don't forget that. Ron told us (and everyone) the San Ran Motel in Robbinsville had a free shutte in and out and $40 hiker rates, they actually charge $5 pp each way and have $70 room rates no hiker rate. We had some bad experiences in Neel Gap too, the shuttles tend to pretend to be free until you buckle up. The San Ran 'forgot' to mention fee until we got to town and took our stuff into our room before his wife 'could make it down to ring us up' then they hit us with the rate. Dishonesty seems to be part of 'southern hospitality' here. Ask and demand rates and prices and if u can stay out of town.


Chuck, is that you whining again? The cadence and tempo, sure are the same.

Slo-go'en
04-07-2013, 12:14
Ron, the problem is your too nice a guy and try to help out everyone. Now it's gotten out of hand with some hikers thinking your their personal (and free) taxi service. The solution is simple, be a little more cold hearted. Make it clear that the free shuttle (but donations are welcome -have a tip jar) is from Winding Stairs Gap to one of your motels or the outfitter ONLY and ONLY at the scheduled times. If someone needs a ride some place else or a different time, they can find and pay for a shuttle from some one else. End of problem.

RE: Hiker rates: Why hikers get to pay less then everyone else is a mystery. It's not like we're less trouble then the average tourist. We leave a lot of garbage and bring in a lot of mud and dirt. But then, for many of these little motels, I supose any buisness is good buisness and if it weren't for hikers, they'd no longer exist at all. I also suspect that the "hiker" rate in many cases is the normal rate. Or maybe more in some cases.

As for companion and guide book buisness listings, sure it was fun back in the day going into a town with out a clue as to what one would find or where one could stay. But I'm sure all the buisnesss are more then happy to be listed in the books as it helps direct buisness their way. The guide book town and buisness info is a win-win for everyone.

Every one who works in the service industry knows thier going to have to deal with A-holes from time to time. You just have to hope there aren't too many of them. The hard part is resisting smacking them on the side of the head to knock some sense into them :)

Feral Bill
04-07-2013, 12:44
RE: Hiker rates: Why hikers get to pay less then everyone else is a mystery.

Hotels have all sorts of discount rates for different classes of people: Seniors, Government workers, AAA, etc. If they choose to give hikers a special rate, that's their business decision. It always pays to ask for a better rate. If the business chooses not to offer one, pay full freight or leave.

Many Moons
04-07-2013, 14:08
What a bunch of wimps. Quit crying. I thought when you get to a town it would be an experience. Just go with the flow. It is what you make it. You want drama, you will find drama. You are supposed to be a tough hiker. Tough hikers don't complain about a little something not going their way. These town people have lives to and are trying to get by the best way they can. I met town people last year on my first hike that gave back way more than they took. Just my guess, the complainers give back less than they take. See you on the trail at Winding Stair on 12th. Hike On!!!


Miller

hikingshoes
04-07-2013, 14:26
Looks like a LOT of NEGATIVE hiker's this yr. Wonder why? I try to stay away from neg. since it will take you out if you stay around it for some period of time. I for one will walk away from it , I don't want any place ot it on my thru-hike 2186miles is along way to hear negative in my book so stop it once it starts. HYOH

10-K
04-07-2013, 14:33
It's been 3 whole days since I've had fast food.. WAHHHH :( :(

:)

Chaco Taco
04-07-2013, 14:43
Looks like a LOT of NEGATIVE hiker's this yr. Wonder why? I try to stay away from neg. since it will take you out if you stay around it for some period of time. I for one will walk away from it , I don't want any place ot it on my thru-hike 2186miles is along way to hear negative in my book so stop it once it starts. HYOH
lots of negative hikers on the internet that also happen to be hiking. This accounts for a very very small percentage of the folks hiking. When you ask hikers about WB, most have never heard of it. Thats the advatage of hiking, if you have an issue with anyone, just keep walking...... :)

MuddyWaters
04-07-2013, 18:29
1) its appalling that people expect anything for free

2) shame on anyone that doesnt ask pricing details before committing to anything

3) sometimes hotels have different rooms, some are more $$ than others due either to amenities or condition. They might stick hikers in the worst rooms for $40 , but if those are already full then they have to go in the $75 room . That is no different from most hotels.

4) anything complimentary, is given only to garner business. Free shuttles from trailhead to motel, are a way to get customers to stay at the motel. If you arent planning to do that, you shouldnt be surprised if asked to pay. You should at least offer no matter what. And not be surprised if they take someone else with a reservation and leave you standing on the side of the road if they are full up.

RockDoc
04-07-2013, 20:15
In a really desperate economy, people are looking for sales opportunities in which a lot of people are needing services. Especially if those people are ready to spend cash money and are fairly desperate (i.e. must buy and have few options).

Do thousands of hungry, cold, wet hikers sound like a good business opportunity to you?

This was less of a problem when the sheer number of hikers did not attract unscrupulous sales enterprises. Now, there's thousands of people making good livings off hikers. You should see the fixtures in the renovated bathroom at the Appalachian Trail Lodge; they are gold plated. I was shocked. Big money is changing hands in hiker services!

Train Wreck
04-07-2013, 20:21
It's been 3 whole days since I've had fast food.. WAHHHH :( :(

:)

Ron made me cross the road to get to the grocery store, boo hoo hoo!!

Lugnut
04-07-2013, 22:21
In a really desperate economy, people are looking for sales opportunities in which a lot of people are needing services. Especially if those people are ready to spend cash money and are fairly desperate (i.e. must buy and have few options).

Do thousands of hungry, cold, wet hikers sound like a good business opportunity to you?

This was less of a problem when the sheer number of hikers did not attract unscrupulous sales enterprises. Now, there's thousands of people making good livings off hikers. You should see the fixtures in the renovated bathroom at the Appalachian Trail Lodge; they are gold plated. I was shocked. Big money is changing hands in hiker services!

I'm assuming this post was made as a joke, or at least I hope it was! :eek:

Serial 07
04-07-2013, 22:31
Dang, it's been a while since i've been on white blaze...sorry to hear about your trouble Ron...

Fredt4
04-07-2013, 22:53
Clearly from the posts replying to the OP Ron has a good name. I certainly had a positive experience in 2011. I suppose you can't please everyone but certainly the OP should regret his post.

Didn't expect anything from anyone other than kindness, but as a long time hiker I have given food and rides and accepted same.

Even when some are rude I usually take it the wrong way and thank them for their kind words. Funny how most will then apologize for their behavior.

Perhaps the OP has been a good opportunity for us to thank Ron and the many others for the good memories and excellent hikes we've enjoyed over the years.

Bronk
04-08-2013, 03:14
Anybody who has ever worked the front desk at a hotel knows that there is no such thing as a set price, and that "hiker discount" is just one way of moving the price around when the clerk wants to sell a room. In a lot of hotels, the pricing goes something like this...you charge as much as you can while still selling all the rooms you can. If its a Tuesday night and there's nothing going on in town you might sell your rooms for $40. If you offer the $40 price and the customer starts to walk away, you ask them if they are a hiker (or travelling on business, an AARP member, military, AAA member, or whatever other BS)...just keep going down the list until you find something they qualify for and then offer the discount. But if its friday night and there's a softball tournament in town for the weekend you're selling every room for $99, and you're calling all the other hotels in town every hour or so to find out how many rooms they have left. As the supply of rooms in town dwindles, the price goes up. You might be charging $179 for a room identical to the same one you sold 3 hours ago for $99. But after 11pm the price starts to slide back down if you've got a bunch of rooms left...you're not likely to sell many rooms late at night so every one you sell is free money.

JAK
04-08-2013, 06:07
You have to be prepared to say "thanks but no thanks", or "sorry I guess I misunderstood, and walk away. That's the beauty of have a pack, two feet, and some stamina. People need to make a living. There will always be misunderstandings. Sometimes you gotta pay. Sometimes you gotta walk away. Some people will call you cheap, and all sorts of names, but you only have to be true to yourself. Always take the high road, even if it means being the loan voice crying in the wilderness. Don't be vindictive. Just keep it simple.

Most High, all-powerful, good Lord, all praise is yours, all glory, all honor,
and all blessing.
To you, alone, Most High, do they belong. No mortal lips are worthy to pronounce your name.
All praise be yours, my Lord, through all you have made, and first my lord Brother Sun, who brings the day; and through whom you give us light. How beautiful is he, how radiant in all his splendor; Of you, Most High, he bears the likeness. All Praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Moon and the stars; in the heavens you have made them, bright, and precious, and fair. All praise be yours, my Lord, through Brothers wind and air, and fair and stormy, all the weather's moods, by which you cherish all that you have made. All praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Water, so useful, humble, precious and pure. All praise be yours, my Lord, through Brother Fire, through whom you brighten up the night. How beautiful is he, how cheerful! Full of power and strength. All praise be yours, my Lord, through our Sister Mother Earth, who sustains us and governs us, and produces various fruits with colored flowers and herbs. All praise be yours, my Lord, through those who grant pardon for love of you; through those who endure sickness and trial. Happy are those who endure in peace, By You, Most High, they will be crowned. All praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Death, From whose embrace no mortal can escape. Woe to those who die in mortal sin! Happy those she finds doing your will! The second death can do them no harm. Praise and bless my Lord, and give him thanks And serve him with great humility.

Chaco Taco
04-08-2013, 06:08
In a really desperate economy, people are looking for sales opportunities in which a lot of people are needing services. Especially if those people are ready to spend cash money and are fairly desperate (i.e. must buy and have few options).

Do thousands of hungry, cold, wet hikers sound like a good business opportunity to you?

This was less of a problem when the sheer number of hikers did not attract unscrupulous sales enterprises. Now, there's thousands of people making good livings off hikers. You should see the fixtures in the renovated bathroom at the Appalachian Trail Lodge; they are gold plated. I was shocked. Big money is changing hands in hiker services!
How about you provide a list of those thousands of people making big money on the trail. Id love to see that list then ask those on your list about the big money they are making? :rolleyes: Do you have any pictures of this gold plated bathroom at the ATL? I never noticed anything close to that at the ATL when I was there in 08 and if I had seen that, I most certainly would have taken a picture....

double d
04-08-2013, 10:45
Ron is the one guy that I've heard nothing but great things about while hiking the AT. But I would say that in any line of work it will have its morons, its called the 1% rule (that is, 99% usually get "it", while 1% do not/can not/never will). Also, the OP only had 4 prior postings-maybe he's just some idiot looking to start trouble.

Almost There
04-08-2013, 11:16
How about you provide a list of those thousands of people making big money on the trail. Id love to see that list then ask those on your list about the big money they are making? :rolleyes: Do you have any pictures of this gold plated bathroom at the ATL? I never noticed anything close to that at the ATL when I was there in 08 and if I had seen that, I most certainly would have taken a picture....

Have to agree with Chaco, over the past few years there have been quite a number of businesses that catered to hikers along the AT that have gone out of business. I'd venture to say more have gone out of business than have been started.

Almost There
04-08-2013, 11:19
There are the fools that hike the trail once, and act entitled, and ruin a good thing for good people, and then there are those of us who actually go back again and again. I've been using Ron for rooms and shuttles for the past seven years. Even though I haven't seen him much the past couple of years due to becoming a dad, I consider him a friend, and above all else he is a fair and more than honest man.

SGT Rock
04-08-2013, 11:44
I love how this thread has turned into a testimony thread about how good a guy Ron Haven is. Not the malicious anti-Haven thread the OP intended.

Ron, 99% of us have always appreciated all you do for hikers. I'm at least thankful that this bad thing turned into a positive place where those of us that know you and have benefited from your efforts can publicly testify how much we care for you and your family. Lord knows they have had to put up with a lot as well over the years. And no matter what, you and they have always remained positive and are greater people for it. It is an honor to know you and your family.

SassyWindsor
04-08-2013, 12:01
there should not be ANY hiker rates for anything. charge em' full price just like any tourist

My "hiker rate" would be higher than the standard tourist rate. :rolleyes:

jj2044
04-08-2013, 12:27
My "hiker rate" would be higher than the standard tourist rate. :rolleyes:
LOL kidding, I bet it takes DAYS to let that hiker funk to air out lol

Donde
04-08-2013, 12:27
My "hiker rate" would be higher than the standard tourist rate. :rolleyes:

A surcharge of the same rate as for allowing dogs in the room makes sense to me, given the way motel room smells when me and 3 other hikers are done there.

Seatbelt
04-08-2013, 12:35
My "hiker rate" would be higher than the standard tourist rate. :rolleyes:

Exactly what i was thinking!! I run a small business and there are some people I am tempted to charge more just to endure their BS.

jj2044
04-08-2013, 12:46
Also, the OP only had 4 prior postings-maybe he's just some idiot looking to start trouble.
I have a theory..... no way to prove it. but when I first saw the OP's writing it reminded me of my favorite whiteblazer, Irishbastard, the everyone screwed him over attitude, the world owes me something attitude. and writing styles seem somewhat the same.... maybe the op is IB's 3rd personality coming out... you know after IB, and roadside(the nicest hiker ever). last time ib posted was around march 20th... then this guy shows up the 24th....and I could be 100% wrong.

ChuckBrown
04-08-2013, 12:51
Every future thru hiker should have to do a free Internship at any hostel in GA, NC, TN. During the peak season. Then they would learn about how to treat the Hiker business. In 2001, wanting to continue the great experience I had hiking from GA to ME, I went to TN and worked at hostel in march and april. It was 15 hours a day seven days a week, non stop. I actually commented to the owner, "where we like that last year..."

I forgot where is AT Lodge, Damascus?

Chaco Taco
04-08-2013, 12:58
Every future thru hiker should have to do a free Internship at any hostel in GA, NC, TN. During the peak season. Then they would learn about how to treat the Hiker business. In 2001, wanting to continue the great experience I had hiking from GA to ME, I went to TN and worked at hostel in march and april. It was 15 hours a day seven days a week, non stop. I actually commented to the owner, "where we like that last year..."

I forgot where is AT Lodge, Damascus?
The AT Lodge we were discussing earlier is in Millinocket, ME

Almost There
04-08-2013, 13:33
A surcharge of the same rate as for allowing dogs in the room makes sense to me, given the way motel room smells when me and 3 other hikers are done there.

Most hotels/motels do charge extra for dogs.

HikerMom58
04-08-2013, 13:55
Most hotels/motels do charge extra for dogs.

I think they should charge more for cleaning up after hikers. Before they check out they could do a room inspection & depending on how the room looks would determine how much they pay to check out OR better yet, make them pay up more up front for the room and give them back their "deposit" if the room hasn't been trashed.

SGT Rock
04-08-2013, 14:03
The hike inn charges charges more for thru-hikers.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

bigcranky
04-08-2013, 14:11
The hike inn charges charges more for thru-hikers.



Yes, but to be fair, that higher rate gets more services: a ride to Robbinsville for groceries, and laundry. I've stayed there half a dozen times as a section hiker, and always been very pleased with the people and the service provided. I would happily pay the higher thru-hiker rate for the extra services were I on a longer hike.

RED-DOG
04-08-2013, 14:12
A lot of places along the AT charges Thru-Hiker's more I noticed this on my 2012 Thru-Hike. and it's only going to get worse.

jbwood5
04-08-2013, 14:18
If that would be the case, why then is The Hike Inn, near Fontana Dam/Robbinsville, NC, recommended in the AT Guidebook by "AWOL"? All things considered, and realizing it seems to be a "hikers only" service, it appears the "hiker package" is very reasonable, with the shuttle to Robbinsville for a good meal and re-supply at a real market, one load of laundry, and a ride back to the Dam, etc. I have no quarrel with your logic, because I think you are in agreement with me that "hikers" shouldn't automatically assume they should get a break, just for being a "hiker". Just sayin'

The Hike Inn (formally the Fontana Motel) does an excellent job and provides decent value considering how far they are away from Robbinsville. It used to be be a $30 - $35 charge for what they now charge $65 or $70 (I believe that is the most recent rate).

I remember in the late 80's you would have an almost impossible time finding anybody to shuttle you in that area. Hitching was the only way. Jeff and Nancy bought the Fontana Motel, giving up their lifestyle in Orlando, FL as employees in a hectic world to pursue their dream of living in the Country, running a small business away from the turmoil of a big City. They bought the motel with the understanding that it was a legitimate business only to find out it had been vacant and there were no established customers or tourists that wanted to stay their. The little motel down the road with a big swimming pool captured a few of the travellers who passed through and that motel did not want unkept looking hikers staying there. It took a little bit of observation and recognition on Jeff and Nancy's part to realize that there was a need for hiker services. It took some time, but by word of mouth amongst the hiker community they gradually built a business and they are successful. They are not making a lot of money and never really intended to make a windfall. They have a little niche in a rural area and have fullfilled their dream of running a small service business. With any business, taxes, utilities, maintenance, and (especially) gasoline costs have soared since they first started. Someday these folks will want to retire or they may no longer be able to run the place. I can just about guarantee, the next owners, if it ever happens, will have to charge even more. With the rather poor economy now, prices are somewhat stable. When (or if) things start booming again, prices will skyrocket.

I know this is slightly off the original discussion, but you really have put it all in perspective.... you can't expect to get services at values below cost, even if there are wonderful people out there willing to help hikers. As mentioned always ask the cost before committing to any service.

Almost There
04-08-2013, 14:41
I think they should charge more for cleaning up after hikers. Before they check out they could do a room inspection & depending on how the room looks would determine how much they pay to check out OR better yet, make them pay up more up front for the room and give them back their "deposit" if the room hasn't been trashed.

I agree with you, most hotels have normal rules similar to this. Smoke in a nonsmoking room your credit card gets charged for the cleaning (runs $300 to $500 and up). When you check into a hotel/motel you sign a document, if something were included in there about potential charges...it is on you to read it, and if you violate it, then you pay to rectify the situation.

Hotels, motels, and hostels along the trail could include a hiker clause. Back in 2006 I remember counting nine thru hikers file out of a room at the Econolodge right there by the interstate in your neck of the woods. They were snuck in after dark. I ratted them out, but don't know what came of it. They had been jerks to my hiking partner (23 year old female), and even bigger ones to me because I called them on their krap. Booze makes people stupid, but everyone shouldn't have to suffer for it. Make the malefactors pay for it.

SGT Rock
04-08-2013, 16:59
Yes, but to be fair, that higher rate gets more services: a ride to Robbinsville for groceries, and laundry. I've stayed there half a dozen times as a section hiker, and always been very pleased with the people and the service provided. I would happily pay the higher thru-hiker rate for the extra services were I on a longer hike.

Agreed

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

10-K
04-08-2013, 17:44
I was talking to a motel owner here in town today and he said last week A hiker came got a single and then snuck 7 more hikers in and left the room a mess.

Said he figured it out by looking at the security tapes.

That's just wrong.

SGT Rock
04-08-2013, 18:14
I was talking to a motel owner here in town today and he said last week A hiker came got a single and then snuck 7 more hikers in and left the room a mess.

Said he figured it out by looking at the security tapes.

That's just wrong.I agree. If I got a room, the last thing I want is seven other roommates. Especial stinky hikers.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

max patch
04-08-2013, 18:24
I was talking to a motel owner here in town today and he said last week A hiker came got a single and then snuck 7 more hikers in and left the room a mess.

Said he figured it out by looking at the security tapes.

That's just wrong.

Gator Gump in his book bragged about sneaking 4 other hikers into his room in Manchester Center. Said when they left everything was black from the mud - carpet, walls, bedding, towels. Plugged the shower and the toilet. Said the owner probably wouldn't be too happy about renting to future thru hikers....

Deadeye
04-08-2013, 18:40
Is the San Ran Motel one of Ron's. I ask because I dont recall it being mentioned here and I only know of the Budget Inn and the Sapphire Inn in Franklin and the Budget Inn in Hiawassee, Ga. If thats the case how can he be fleecing you or anyone? Your post isnt exactly clear, but it seems like he gave advice on another hotel that might not have been accurate. If my interpretation is correct that sounds more like a mistake, not really fleecing.

Regardless isnt it your responsibility to know and agree on terms before services are provided?

And whats the beef with folks running profitable businesses? Southern hospitality doesnt mean we have to get taken advantage of either.

Exactly. 10

HikerMom58
04-08-2013, 19:41
I agree with you, most hotels have normal rules similar to this. Smoke in a nonsmoking room your credit card gets charged for the cleaning (runs $300 to $500 and up). When you check into a hotel/motel you sign a document, if something were included in there about potential charges...it is on you to read it, and if you violate it, then you pay to rectify the situation.

Hotels, motels, and hostels along the trail could include a hiker clause. Back in 2006 I remember counting nine thru hikers file out of a room at the Econolodge right there by the interstate in your neck of the woods. They were snuck in after dark. I ratted them out, but don't know what came of it. They had been jerks to my hiking partner (23 year old female), and even bigger ones to me because I called them on their krap. Booze makes people stupid, but everyone shouldn't have to suffer for it. Make the malefactors pay for it.

Yeah, it seems like business owners could come up with something that wouldn't punish everyone. I agree with you, there's many ways that it could be worked out.

It was prob the Travel Lodge that you remembered staying in, in 2006. :) It may have been called the Econolodge back then. I know right where that is in Daleville, VA. Good for you for calling them on their crap. There needs to be consequences for bad behavior or else it will just continue.

Almost There
04-08-2013, 19:42
Gator Gump in his book bragged about sneaking 4 other hikers into his room in Manchester Center. Said when they left everything was black from the mud - carpet, walls, bedding, towels. Plugged the shower and the toilet. Said the owner probably wouldn't be too happy about renting to future thru hikers....
Proprietors should make thru-hikers pay with credit cards, and then when this happens, they can make an additional charge for "cleaning." Once word spreads many will stop this behavior, or else they'll end up paying for it big time.

MuddyWaters
04-08-2013, 21:04
Gator Gump in his book bragged about sneaking 4 other hikers into his room in Manchester Center. Said when they left everything was black from the mud - carpet, walls, bedding, towels. Plugged the shower and the toilet. Said the owner probably wouldn't be too happy about renting to future thru hikers....

That is why hotels require a credit card to check in. No one lets you pay cash in advance any more. Used to many yrs ago
You will be charged for damage, excessive cleaning, and missing items , generally speaking.

Desert Reprobate
04-08-2013, 21:25
Most hotels/motels do charge extra for dogs.

They should let the dogs stay free and charge extra for the hiker

Two Speed
04-08-2013, 21:42
Ayup. A lot more likely to get some appreciation from the dog.

Wise Old Owl
04-08-2013, 21:50
Well I watched this thread with great interest - Ron if you ever get this far on the posts - great rebuttal, I think you should keep the shuttle going but that's your decision. A couple bad apples doesn't spoil the orchard....

soilman
04-08-2013, 22:01
That is why hotels require a credit card to check in. No one lets you pay cash in advance any more. Used to many yrs ago
You will be charged for damage, excessive cleaning, and missing items , generally speaking.

Beg to differ from you, but many places along the trail are cash only or charge a surcharge for credit card.

Lone Wolf
04-08-2013, 23:10
Well I watched this thread with great interest - Ron if you ever get this far on the posts - great rebuttal, I think you should keep the shuttle going but that's your decision. A couple bad apples doesn't spoil the orchard....

it's about a bushel nowadays

Wise Old Owl
04-08-2013, 23:27
it's about a bushel nowadays


Remember Jeff Dunham? Jalapeno on a stick?


Here is Apple on a Stick!
21004https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR27UA3xUhAxBtj_Tx6fNKzuwDTHFYaW OdiMfrHr8WNLYPsVj7n

Coffee
04-09-2013, 07:28
I've been thinking about whether the AT or PCT should top my list of long trails to hike in the future. One thing that I'm quite sure of is that if I hike the AT I will go SOBO... I don't like what I'm reading about the "bubble" heading north. My guess is that the trail towns will be easier to deal with in their "off season" ... Fall rather than Spring in the south.

Ron Haven
04-09-2013, 15:25
Wise Old Owl, I have a little while to study about it. They are a few out there who should be with their parents a few more years, but this year has become an exception to the rule. It is almost an everyday thing.

Dogwood
04-09-2013, 15:44
Folks I came back to this first posted and removed the original post for posterity. As this thread progressed it really went bad for a new member Boogie Monster as Ron Haven runs a great business. The real whiner here is BM. He should have asked before getting in the car and could have refused.

IMHO, WOO got it spot on right in the first post on this long thread. Didn't need to have gone any further than this.

curtisvowen
04-09-2013, 16:52
Wise Old Owl, I have a little while to study about it. They are a few out there who should be with their parents a few more years, but this year has become an exception to the rule. It is almost an everyday thing.
I agree.
It seems to have started 3 years ago and since then it's "spiked" this hiker season

aficion
04-09-2013, 16:55
Wise Old Owl, I have a little while to study about it. They are a few out there who should be with their parents a few more years, but this year has become an exception to the rule. It is almost an everyday thing.

I hear you. Having been in the restaurant, and then the hotel business since 1981 until about a year ago, I have discerned a steady decline in the ethics of employees as well as customers. That is not to say that there are not a whole lot of really decent people out there. It is just that the indecent seem to be multiplying arithmetically. Being longer with parents, who behave the way the parents of the last Little League team to come through my hotel, would just result in more damage.

My hat is off to you and your family for your example. That it does not get through to some is sad, but not surprising. Looking forward to meeting you when I get my chance to thru. :)

T-Rx
04-09-2013, 17:32
Ron,
keep up the good work! You provide a valuable service to hikers. Please don't let a few bad apples color your attitude and willingness to help those hikers with good manners and a true appreciation for people like you and your family. Thanks for all you do!

fiddlehead
04-09-2013, 17:58
I can relate to Ron's story of the guy who badly (said) he needed a ride and then was still in bed as well as he then sat down in Burger King, etc.
Happened to me once and it was almost funny how this guy begged to be taken to a store for "one more thing" (45 minutes later, I went in and he was cruising the aisles, looking at everything and telling his story how he walked all the way from GA, blah blah blah) Problem was, i was in a hurry and had told him so.

Anyway, I think it needs to be said that the OP came here to talk about some bad advice that he received from advertisements including some from Ron Haven.
Ron admitted he may have done so yet almost everyone on here is tearing into the OP for his complaint.

So easy to jump on the bandwagon isn't it?

SOBO_Pace
04-09-2013, 19:24
Gator Gump in his book bragged about sneaking 4 other hikers into his room in Manchester Center. Said when they left everything was black from the mud - carpet, walls, bedding, towels. Plugged the shower and the toilet. Said the owner probably wouldn't be too happy about renting to future thru hikers....

That is why hotels require a credit card to check in. No one lets you pay cash in advance any more. Used to many yrs ago
You will be charged for damage, excessive cleaning, and missing items , generally speaking.

Paid for one room with a credit card in Hanover, nh last year. All the rest seemed happy to take cash.

jj2044
04-09-2013, 20:07
[QUOTE=fiddlehead;1457415]
Anyway, I think it needs to be said that the OP came here to talk about some bad advice that he received from advertisements including some from Ron Haven.
Ron admitted he may have done so yet almost everyone on here is tearing into the OP for his complaint.

[QUOTE] you still have to take it upon yourself to check for yourself. Its the OP's attitude that everyone here is hating, the "its my vacation, and you should help me do whatever I want for free" attitude. No one owes you anything in this world. IF and I say IF Ron gave bad advice its became HE was given bad info, Ron is one of the nicest guys I met on the trail, he wouldn't try to screw over someone

Tuckahoe
04-09-2013, 21:11
Anyway, I think it needs to be said that the OP came here to talk about some bad advice that he received from advertisements including some from Ron Haven.
Ron admitted he may have done so yet almost everyone on here is tearing into the OP for his complaint.

So easy to jump on the bandwagon isn't it?

And Fiddlehead, that's not exactly the case either. Lets be honest here, the OP didnt post to correct what was inaccurate information and pass along correct information. They accused folks in trail towns of being dishonest and out to fleece hikers. The tone of the original post was rather uncalled for.

coheterojo
04-09-2013, 21:30
God golly Miss Molly! Such vitriol! Every experience I've had with Ron Haven has been a real treat. This man is a great asset to the AT. Not only does he devote great gobs of his time to hauling around hikers, grateful and ungrateful. He also tells a helluva a story. Have any of you guys heard him speak Spanish? He speaks it fluently and rapidly but with a Franklin, NC accent that makes the experience memorable at the very least.
And in regards to getting ripped off in towns by "characters" I can't say I had that experience. My hikes kinda restored my faith in humanity. I was exposed to far more generosity and hospitality than I've ever seen out in the "real" world.

Chaco Taco
04-09-2013, 21:30
And Fiddlehead, that's not exactly the case either. Lets be honest here, the OP didnt post to correct what was inaccurate information and pass along correct information. They accused folks in trail towns of being dishonest and out to fleece hikers. The tone of the original post was rather uncalled for.
See thats the beef I had. Going on an internet website instead of dealing with the person directly is chickens**t.

SouthMark
04-10-2013, 00:08
See thats the beef I had. Going on an internet website instead of dealing with the person directly is chickens**t.

That deserves a big LIKE for telling it like it is.

Trillium
05-09-2013, 20:54
Gator Gump in his book bragged about sneaking 4 other hikers into his room in Manchester Center. Said when they left everything was black from the mud - carpet, walls, bedding, towels. Plugged the shower and the toilet. Said the owner probably wouldn't be too happy about renting to future thru hikers....what makes this even more egregious is that this man is a business owner himself; owns an ice cream shoppe in Bradenton, FL. I wonder what his reaction would be if people came into his shoppe and got mud all over the floor, chairs, tables. Class will tell.

SouthernPride
05-09-2013, 21:57
what makes this even more egregious is that this man is a business owner himself; owns an ice cream shoppe in Bradenton, FL. I wonder what his reaction would be if people came into his shoppe and got mud all over the floor, chairs, tables. Class will tell.

I posted on a FB page that I was hoping to get back a little more appreciation for mankind after spending the past 22 years in law enforcement and dealing with the dredge of society. I hoped I would meet some really great people on the trail that would renew my faith in humanity, but alas, it appears that ******** are everywhere. Havent started on the AT yet, but am going to do so next year - sad that ******** run what appear to be good businessmen providing valuable services off because their mommy spoiled their ass too much and they now feel entitled. I bet the OP got a trophy in Little League for "participation". Guess I should bring my *******-b-gone spray with me next yr.......

Ron Haven
05-09-2013, 22:57
I have decided to keep doing my shuttles and trying to help as many hikers as I can. I have added on my web site that it is going to be for my guests only. I want hikers to stay where they want to but I am not going to let them in my vehicles period if they are not my guest. I hate to have to be this way but when I work an average of 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 10 weeks, my fuse is getting a little shorter than it use to be. my site is http://ronhavenhikerservices.com

I actually am considering opening a nice hostel and a small supply store for next year. It will also include about 15 rooms besides the bunk house. I am going to put laundry facilities, Internet, sell cold beer on site and other plans.. I already have the property.

ChinMusic
05-09-2013, 23:33
I was hoping you would reconsider for your own guests. That seemed like a win-win to me. But, I knew whatever you decided to do it would be well thought out.

Signed, Big Ron Haven Fan

Cookerhiker
05-10-2013, 09:08
I have decided to keep doing my shuttles and trying to help as many hikers as I can. I have added on my web site that it is going to be for my guests only. I want hikers to stay where they want to but I am not going to let them in my vehicles period if they are not my guest. I hate to have to be this way but when I work an average of 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 10 weeks, my fuse is getting a little shorter than it use to be. my site is http://ronhavenhikerservices.com

I actually am considering opening a nice hostel and a small supply store for next year. It will also include about 15 rooms besides the bunk house. I am going to put laundry facilities, Internet, sell cold beer on site and other plans.. I already have the property.

Sounds very reasonable on your part. Thanks for all you do for hikers, many of whom don't seem to appreciate the hard work and extra effort.

finish9
05-10-2013, 11:32
Ron you have a big heart!

coach lou
05-10-2013, 12:09
I have decided to keep doing my shuttles and trying to help as many hikers as I can. I have added on my web site that it is going to be for my guests only. I want hikers to stay where they want to but I am not going to let them in my vehicles period if they are not my guest. I hate to have to be this way but when I work an average of 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 10 weeks, my fuse is getting a little shorter than it use to be. my site is http://ronhavenhikerservices.com

I actually am considering opening a nice hostel and a small supply store for next year. It will also include about 15 rooms besides the bunk house. I am going to put laundry facilities, Internet, sell cold beer on site and other plans.. I already have the property.

Ron, you hotel magnate! Pretty soon you'll be registered with 'Starwood'....I can trade my week in the Caribbean for a few hostel nites along the Appalachian:banana

Gray Blazer
05-10-2013, 12:26
Ron Haven is a good man. One of the best.

gunner76
05-10-2013, 12:52
Hopefully I will have a chance to stay at one of Ron's places one day.

generoll
05-10-2013, 19:36
Ron, is the Forest service still charging you $300/yr to pick up hikers for free?

max patch
05-10-2013, 19:45
Ron, is the Forest service still charging you $300/yr to pick up hikers for free?

Is that the permit fee? I emailed them a couple months ago asking them how much it was, but I guess between lunch and a couple 3 hour breaks every day they were too busy to get back to me.

Ron Haven
05-11-2013, 00:58
Yes Gene, that is what my permit cost. I am very proud of all the hiker friends I have made thru the years everyone. I just got home from shuttling a hiker right now and it is almost 1am. I have a meeting at 7:30am also. Guess I better hit the bed.

chiefduffy
05-11-2013, 06:06
Ron, God bless you for everything you've done for hikers(including me!) through the years.

- Duffy

SouthernPride
05-11-2013, 15:41
I wasnt planning on staying anywhere other than on the trail, but given the generosity of this man....I have to meet him. Next year, on my section hike of that area - I am booking a stay. For no other reason than to support someone who obviously supports everyone else.

mfleming
05-11-2013, 21:34
Ron, you are a living example of generous to a fault. Your family are the ones who are most appreciative of all you do. Make sure you spend your time with them.

Train Wreck
05-11-2013, 22:19
Ron provides some darn good entertainment at the Hiker Fool Festival as well. Most attendees enjoyed the opportunity to meet new friends :D

21581

DaSchwartz
05-12-2013, 00:58
The website sounds fair enough. He shouldn't shuttle people for free who aren't staying at the listed hotels. And some hikers do take advantage of hotel owners by getting a room for one person, then sneaking in 3 or 4 and other stuff. $39 bucks plus 5 bucks extra a person is a very good deal in my opinion.