SEVERE norovirus outbreak

[HikerMom58]

SEVERE norovirus outbreak on the trail between Hot Springs and Erwin. Shelters and privies reported contaminated by sick hikers. Avoid the area or at least the shelter / public areas. I'm just passing along this information from other Whiteblaze Members. ChinMusic, who is currently on the trail, is also reporting this outbreak.

[slow mind]

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/norovirus/article_em.htm

[slow mind]

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/norovirus/page7_em.htm

Self treatment, interestiing it say that things like Imodium ect. will NOT help and only prolong it .

[Jack Tarlin]

1. Nobody knows this is "norovirus." Nor has any health practitioner described the problem as "severe."
2. Something like this happens every year. It is widely discussed and then discounted.
3. It is increasingly well-reported and discussed as more and more hikers spend too much time on-line each year.
4. These episodes of danger or "hiker plague" are usually greatly exaggerated.
5. This includes accounts of "contaminated" shelters, hostels, trail facilities, etc.
6. These reports tend to do little except worry hikers and their families needlessly.

A bit of calm might seem in order. Words like "severe"; "outbreak;" "contamination"; etc. probably do not help here. This is not England in 1348; this is not a plague year. It would generally be imprudent to read too much into what one might read in a a trail journal or two. Until we hear some sort of corroboration from a Trail official, or better yet, a medical person on the ground in the "affected" area, I suggest that everyone take a deep breath.

[WingedMonkey]

Have any state or county heath departments confirmed this is norovirus?

[HikerMom58]

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/norovirus/page7_em.htm

Self treatment, interestiing it say that things like Imodium ect. will NOT help and only prolong it .

yes, interesting..

Here's ChinMusic's post:

Folks, we have a full-blown trail epidemic going on between Hot Springs and Erwin. If it is beyond that I cannot tell. More than 50% of the hikers are sick or recovered. Those unaffected are in the minority. I personally only know a few folks now that have NOT been sick. The last three nights I have gone to sleep with the sounds of dry heaves. Every day I see people still in their sleeping bags trying to sleep it off. Fortunately it only lasts 24-36 hours. But it is 24-36 hours of hell.

[HikerMom58]

Have any state or county heath departments confirmed this is norovirus?

No, I don't think they have WM... Chin is hoping that the CDC will look into the matter- their headquarters is in Atlanta, I believe.

[curtisvowen]

SEVERE norovirus outbreak on the trail between Hot Springs and Erwin. Shelters and privies reported contaminated by sick hikers. Avoid the area or at least the shelter / public areas. I'm just passing along this information from other Whiteblaze Members. ChinMusic, who is currently on the trail, is also reporting this outbreak.
Define:"SEVERE"
There's a 48 hour cold bug going around, but posting there's a Norovirus outbreak?
Are you a doctor? So it's Norovirus? Avoid the area?
O.K. I'll bypass 75 miles of trail because of what you said.
I talked today with 5 hikers 30 miles South of Erwin....no problem.
Every time hikers leave town they have problems with their guts....gorge themselves on "normal food" in town and within the first 10 miles leave everything they ate in a cat hole somewhere along the trail.
Best thing to do is never shake hands with anyone....do the hiker shake...Fist Bump and move on.

[Luddite]

So is this likely due to a contaminated water source?



their headquarters is in Atlanta, I believe.

I thought Dr. Edwin Jenner took care of it. :-? lol

[curtisvowen]

P.S. I've known ChinMusic for years. We broke bread together while he was here and spent time with my family.

[HikerMom58]

Define:"SEVERE"
There's a 48 hour cold bug going around, but posting there's a Norovirus outbreak?
Are you a doctor? So it's Norovirus? Avoid the area?
O.K. I'll bypass 75 miles of trail because of what you said.
I talked today with 5 hikers 30 miles South of Erwin....no problem.
Every time hikers leave town they have problems with their guts....gorge themselves on "normal food" in town and within the first 10 miles leave everything they ate in a cat hole somewhere along the trail.
Best thing to do is never shake hands with anyone....do the hiker shake...Fist Bump and move on.

I just posted what I've seen others posting on the hikers FB page. I first saw ChinMusic talking about it on 2013 Thru-hikers FB page.

Here you go another post from FB- *QUOTE* "Somebody from the ATC needs to call Curtis at Standing bear and the outfitter in Hot Springs and get them to post this info where hikers will see it."

Are they talking about you, curtisvowen? I'm not a doctor. I'm just a concerned WB member....I thought people would like to know about this....

[Meriadoc]

Mmm, I had norovirus twice last year. That's what I get for flip flopping!

Practice good hygiene and stay hydrated. (The latter in case you get it - trust me, it sucks to come down with norovirus when you are already dehydrated.)

Thanks for the heads up HikerMom. I'm heading down for a quick two week section so I'll just have to be careful.

[Chaco Taco]

YET, another reason to avoid shelters

[Mrs Baggins]

Same thing as the "cruise ship virus" - - extraordinarily contagious. I caught it in late 2002 from a co-worker who came to work sick. She touched the door handles and taps in the ladies room (she was throwing up all the way to work and then insisted on staying at work while continuing to throw up)...then I touched it not long after. That's the ONLY thing we had in common. Woke up the next morning feeling as though my eyes were about to explode out of my head and then the throwing up started..among other things. The obvious symptoms did last about 24 hours but I was weak, dizzy and unable to eat much of anything for a good week afterward. At that time it was tearing thru whole neighborhoods here.

[WingedMonkey]

YET, another reason to avoid shelters

YET another reason to avoid Facebook.

;)

[curtisvowen]

Or get a life after Facebook.

[RF_ace]

Why does basic hygiene go out the window for most when they start walking in the woods

[HikerMom58]

YET another reason to avoid Facebook.

;)

WM... FB is good, sometimes. ;) When hikers don't come over to WB to share, they share it on FB... TMI..:eek:

Meriadoc... be careful and have a blast!

[Jack Tarlin]

Curtis' post (#8) makes a world of sense. Everyone here needs to take a deep breath and calm down.

[Chaco Taco]

so yet again, we have case of he said, she said. This is all speculation. Until the health department puts out some sort of warning, Ill just go with folks getting on the internet and freaking out......

[Chaco Taco]

naturally because of the post by the WB member, people are freaking out on facebox, get a grip folks

[curtisvowen]

WM... FB is good, sometimes. ;) When hikers don't come over to WB to share, they share it on FB... TMI..:eek:

Meriadoc... be careful and have a blast!
Oh really.

[Chaco Taco]

Oh really.
Seriously.......

[HikerMom58]

so yet again, we have case of he said, she said. This is all speculation. Until the health department puts out some sort of warning, Ill just go with folks getting on the internet and freaking out......

CT... it's not speculation. People are really sick on the trail.

[4Bears]

No, I don't think they have WM... Chin is hoping that the CDC will look into the matter- their headquarters is in Atlanta, I believe.
The CDC is not likely to get involved unless notified by a Dr. or Health Official, confirming it is, say the Norovirus, and then not until a specific number of cases with some commonality are identified, as I understand it. So unless folks are going to a Dr. or E.R., it would be as if it never happened.

[Chaco Taco]

CT... it's not speculation. People are really sick on the trail.
People get sick every year.... giardia, lyme, flu........

[Chaco Taco]

People get sick every year.... giardia, lyme, flu........
hangovers.....eating crappy food. You are going based on what some guy is posting on the internet in one town.

[HikerMom58]

People get sick every year.... giardia, lyme, flu........

Well, whatever it is they are sick in record numbers... I'll get Chin over here to explain, he's the one on the trail telling about it.

[WingedMonkey]

Maybe they all ate at the same hiker feed?

:banana

[HikerMom58]

Maybe they all ate at the same hiker feed?

:banana


Ha ha!! There you go with that :banana. Very funny!

[HikerMom58]

I just left Chin a message... he's having dinner with 10-K in Erwin. He should come over to post here soon to explain what's going on...

[SOBO_Pace]

Happened last summer between andover,me and gorham, nh. They were calling it noravirus too. We called it the plague.

[HikerMom58]

Happened last summer between andover,me and gorham, nh. They were calling it noravirus too. We called it the plague.

One girl that just got it hiking this year said this- "The curse of little laurel shelter :^p that's what we were all calling it Hhaha"

[Toli]

1. Nobody knows this is "norovirus." Nor has any health practitioner described the problem as "severe."
2. Something like this happens every year. It is widely discussed and then discounted.
3. It is increasingly well-reported and discussed as more and more hikers spend too much time on-line each year.
4. These episodes of danger or "hiker plague" are usually greatly exaggerated.
5. This includes accounts of "contaminated" shelters, hostels, trail facilities, etc.
6. These reports tend to do little except worry hikers and their families needlessly.

A bit of calm might seem in order. Words like "severe"; "outbreak;" "contamination"; etc. probably do not help here. This is not England in 1348; this is not a plague year. It would generally be imprudent to read too much into what one might read in a a trail journal or two. Until we hear some sort of corroboration from a Trail official, or better yet, a medical person on the ground in the "affected" area, I suggest that everyone take a deep breath.

Apparently ur boy "Lumpy" does not have cable... Ummmm, does "The Walking Dead" ring a bell??? Now where's that thread on "Guns on the Trail" again...

[ChinMusic]

If y'all don't want to believe the severity of this outbreak, frankly I do not care. I actually expect this from WhiteBlaze.

More than half the hikers in the past 5 days between HS and Erwin have become sick. Yes, the Dx of norovirus is speculation, but I would bet money on it. 6 of 6 hikers that stayed at Little Laurel several days ago became sick. Big Bald Shelter has vomit all over it as of last night.

Do what you do best WhiteBlaze.....belittle me. See if I care.

[HikerMom58]

If y'all don't want to believe the severity of this outbreak, frankly I do not care. I actually expect this from WhiteBlaze.

More than half the hikers in the past 5 days between HS and Erwin have become sick. Yes, the Dx of norovirus is speculation, but I would bet money on it. 6 of 6 hikers that stayed at Little Laurel several days ago became sick. Big Bald Shelter has vomit all over it as of last night.

Do what you do best WhiteBlaze.....belittle me. See if I care.

Sorry Chin... it's my fault. ATM brought it up in the Cafe and TW agreed that someone should post about it. I volunteered. I actually copied the thread title from Bliss off of her page. These ignorant people are just being stupid.... my bad.

[curtisvowen]

I just left Chin a message... he's having dinner with 10-K in Erwin. He should come over to post here soon to explain what's going on...

You don't get it do you?
Let Chin Music explain? Explain what?
Today, April 8th I did shuttles to Erwin, Sam's Gap and Hot Springs. 6 hrs. on the road. Typical everyday for me.
I saw at least 20 hikers throughout my travels and talked to 5 hikers, (the other 15 were bleeding out their noses...what disease is that? I was to scared to talk with them), a fellow shuttler, another hostel owner and the owner of an outfitter in Hot Springs.
Not one nor the hikers said anything about some kinda disease.
So I'm in the trenches and you're surfing FB/WB and telling us 1 person said blah blah blah?
3k posts and 3 miles of hiking don't mean much.

[Another Kevin]

OK, let's review the bidding, and tone down the language (as Baltimore Jack comments, expressions like "severe outbreak" don't help!)

Several hikers have unquestionably[1] reported that their fellows are suffering from gastroenteritis at the given location. It appears to be self-limiting but severe enough to impede travel for 1-2 days while the hiker is going through the worst of it. The reported symptoms are consistent with norovirus. (The symptoms are nonspecific, but norovirus causes well over half the gastroenteritis in the US in any case, so it's not a bad bet.) The number of sufferers suggests that the illness is quite contagious, at least in the special environment of the trail (many people at close quarters in shelters and hostels, with dodgy sanitation).

If it is norovirus, practicing good sanitation confers some protection but is by no means foolproof, particularly in crowded areas like shelters. The sometimes violent vomiting and diarrhoea of norovirus can aerosolize the virus and get it onto all neighbouring surfaces. By far the best prevention is hand washing - most important after defecation, before eating or food preparation, and after touching potentially contaminated surfaces, especially things like brooms, shelter logs, and bear pole hooks that are typically handled by a great many hikers. Noroviruses can survive for 2-4 weeks on surfaces.

Norovirus can also be waterborne. Hikers who use filters or who trust the water sources might be well advised to consider chemical treatment or boiling when others in the vicinity are reporting serious but brief gastroenteritis. Most filters offer little or no protection against norovirus, while all the popular chemical treatments, boiling (or even pasteurization), and UV treatment kill norovirus quite effectively.

Jack is right that this sort of thing is nothing new. I seem to hear about one or another "hot spot" for gastroenteritis somewhere on the Trail once or twice a season.

Fortunately, the healthy athletes who make up most of the thru-hiker population are likely to suffer nothing more than a day or two of illness and impeded travel from a norovirus infection. We all get the screaming squirts every so often, on trail or in town, and most of us are fine a day or two later.

Best treatment for those who do get norovirus is oral rehydration. The usual recommended mix is 2 tablespoons sugar or honey, and a quarter-teaspoon each of salt and baking soda per litre of clean water If available, add half a cup (125 ml) of fruit juice or take a commercial potassium supplement. Ideal is to supplement potassium by 6 milliequvalents per liter of rehydration solution consumed. Sports drinks are ordinarily too sugary but could be diluted to half- or even quarter-strength. In a pinch, rehydrate with any clear liquid, even plain (treated!) water: the specific makeup isn't all that critical in adults who were healthy before the gastroenteritis commenced.

Bismuth subsalicylate can provide some relief of symptoms. Loperamide (e.g., Imodium) and belladonna derivatives (e.g. Lomotil) are best avoided if vomiting - or, actually, in any case unless you need them to get off trail (for instance, to be able to ride a bus). Rehydrating and waiting it out are much less likely to cause complications. If nausea and vomiting are severe enough that the patient has trouble retaining clear liquids for rehydration, a 25-50 mg dose of diphenhydramine (Benadryl) might conceivably help. It's not ordinarily prescribed as an antiemetic, and isn't anyone's first choice for the purpose, but it does have some antiemetic effect. Its chief disadvantage as an antiemetic is the extent to which it sedates the patient - which might actually help in waiting out an illness on trail. Its chief advantage in this situation is that it's the antiemetic that's most likely to be obtainable - many hikers carry diphenhydramine for treating allergic reactions or as a sleep aid.

(If I were local, I'd probably now be making plans to day-hike into the affected shelter with a mop, a bucket, and a bottle of bleach, to disinfect where people had been puking. That's probably the best single thing that a trail angel could be doing for the situation right now, if any angels down there are listening!)

[1] I've read their trail journals. http://timontheat.blogspot.com/ reported hypothermia - and subsequent gastroenteritis - contracted between Hot Springs and Devil's Gap. http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=406409 reports eight ill hikers at Whistling Gap.

[Toli]

If y'all don't want to believe the severity of this outbreak, frankly I do not care. I actually expect this from WhiteBlaze.

More than half the hikers in the past 5 days between HS and Erwin have become sick. Yes, the Dx of norovirus is speculation, but I would bet money on it. 6 of 6 hikers that stayed at Little Laurel several days ago became sick. Big Bald Shelter has vomit all over it as of last night.

Do what you do best WhiteBlaze.....belittle me. See if I care.

Now that's funny... :welcome ...

[slow mind]

You don't get it do you?
Let Chin Music explain? Explain what?
Today, April 8th I did shuttles to Erwin, Sam's Gap and Hot Springs. 6 hrs. on the road. Typical everyday for me.
I saw at least 20 hikers throughout my travels and talked to 5 hikers, (the other 15 were bleeding out their noses...what disease is that? I was to scared to talk with them), a fellow shuttler, another hostel owner and the owner of an outfitter in Hot Springs.
Not one nor the hikers said anything about some kinda disease.
So I'm in the trenches and you're surfing FB/WB and telling us 1 person said blah blah blah?
3k posts and 3 miles of hiking don't mean much.# someone pooped in my soup #internet crimefighter #superhero
I fixed your post for you.

[4Bears]

Chin, stay safe out there, the best prevention is what you have been doing, keeping some separation, no matter what the illness may be. I have been enjoying your journal, on TJ.

[curtisvowen]

If y'all don't want to believe the severity of this outbreak, frankly I do not care. I actually expect this from WhiteBlaze.

More than half the hikers in the past 5 days between HS and Erwin have become sick. Yes, the Dx of norovirus is speculation, but I would bet money on it. 6 of 6 hikers that stayed at Little Laurel several days ago became sick. Big Bald Shelter has vomit all over it as of last night.

Do what you do best WhiteBlaze.....belittle me. See if I care.
I love you man but your numbers don't add up and it makes u look stupid.
"More than half the hikers in the past 5 days have become sick"?
There's easily 100 hikers between A & B and more than half have become sick?
What did you do sit there at some gap and survey everyone that passed.
I'm done.

[HikerMom58]

You don't get it do you?
Let Chin Music explain? Explain what?
Today, April 8th I did shuttles to Erwin, Sam's Gap and Hot Springs. 6 hrs. on the road. Typical everyday for me.
I saw at least 20 hikers throughout my travels and talked to 5 hikers, (the other 15 were bleeding out their noses...what disease is that? I was to scared to talk with them), a fellow shuttler, another hostel owner and the owner of an outfitter in Hot Springs.
Not one nor the hikers said anything about some kinda disease.
So I'm in the trenches and you're surfing FB/WB and telling us 1 person said blah blah blah?
3k posts and 3 miles of hiking don't mean much.

I don't know who you are but you are not making any sense.... Blah Blah Blah!! You just don't get it! I trust Chin Music, if he said there's a lot of hikers sick on the trail then I believe him. He's actually on the trail, in the shelters. ARE YOU? I'm not listening to you, I don't know you.

[Lone Wolf]

SEVERE norovirus outbreak on the trail between Hot Springs and Erwin. Shelters and privies reported contaminated by sick hikers. Avoid the area or at least the shelter / public areas. I'm just passing along this information from other Whiteblaze Members. ChinMusic, who is currently on the trail, is also reporting this outbreak.
much ado over nothin'. sleep in a tent, avoid hostels, shelters, motel rooms with other hikers and you'll be fine. oh and don't treat your water.

[ChinMusic]

I am slow so I see lots of hikers. Of course I haven't seen them all. That is a non-starter. I have seen enough to know the severity of this. I just walked through it. Of the hikers I know, very few made it through the corridor without becoming sick.

[Lone Wolf]

I don't know who you are but you are not making any sense.... Blah Blah Blah!! You just don't get it! I trust Chin Music, if he said there's a lot of hikers sick on the trail then I believe him. He's actually on the trail, in the shelters. ARE YOU? I'm not listening to you, I don't know you.

curtis is brother Marine and hostel owner

[Mountain Mike]

much ado over nothin'. sleep in a tent, avoid hostels, shelters, motel rooms with other hikers and you'll be fine. oh and don't treat your water.

May be a bad/contaminated batch of aqua-mira out there!:eek:

[tridavis]

I don't know who you are but you are not making any sense.... Blah Blah Blah!! You just don't get it! I trust Chin Music, if he said there's a lot of hikers sick on the trail then I believe him. He's actually on the trail, in the shelters. ARE YOU? I'm not listening to you, I don't know you.

Curtis is the owner of Standing Bear Hostel right outside of the Smokies. Of course he is going to fall in the camp of it being speculation because he makes most of his money now and if it is true people will avoid his hostel like the.........well, you know.

[HikerMom58]

much ado over nothin'. sleep in a tent, avoid hostels, shelters, motel rooms with other hikers and you'll be fine. oh and don't treat your water.

LW? Who is this, curtisvowen? Other than not treating the water, I like your post and I agree!:D

[WingedMonkey]

Sorry Chin... it's my fault. ATM brought it up in the Cafe and TW agreed that someone should post about it. I volunteered. I actually copied the thread title from Bliss off of her page. These ignorant people are just being stupid.... my bad.

If a member said that about you, you'd be screaming for a moderator and threatening to quit WB.

[Toli]

:rolleyes:
I fixed your post for you.

Returning the fav... #Hope my mom doesn't poop in my soup bringing it to me the basement # My mom doesn't understand the interweb #Hope my mom still respects my Superman Jammies I'm still wearing :D...

[HikerMom58]

Curtis is the owner of Standing Bear Hostel right outside of the Smokies. Of course he is going to fall in the camp of it being speculation because he makes most of his money now and if it is true people will avoid his hostel like the.........well, you know.

O-KaY... Thanks tridavis.

[HikerMom58]

If a member said that about you, you'd be screaming for a moderator and threatening to quit WB.

Yes, you are right WM... I'm very sensitive.

[HikerMom58]

curtis is brother Marine and hostel owner

Ok.. thanks. I've heard really good things about him.

[slow mind]

:rolleyes:

Returning the fav... #Hope my mom doesn't poop in my soup bringing it to me the basement # My mom doesn't understand the interweb #Hope my mom still respects my Superman Jammies I'm still wearing :D...

Speculation!
#I stay in your;) mom's basement

[curtisvowen]

Curtis is the owner of Standing Bear Hostel right outside of the Smokies. Of course he is going to fall in the camp of it being speculation because he makes most of his money now and if it is true people will avoid his hostel like the.........well, you know.
Wrong.
I retired when I was 38 years old and do this business cause I love it.
What I don't like is B.S.
I'm the Preacher, the Wizard and the A**hole of the trail.
People start goofin with my hikers I get pissed and I don't care if your family or friend.

[HikerMom58]

:rolleyes:

Returning the fav... #Hope my mom doesn't poop in my soup bringing it to me the basement # My mom doesn't understand the interweb #Hope my mom still respects my Superman Jammies I'm still wearing :D...

I remember you did something nice a few times....:D

[Toli]

If a member said that about you, you'd be screaming for a moderator and threatening to quit WB.

Oh snap WM...Again???

[HikerMom58]

Wrong.
I retired when I was 38 years old and do this business cause I love it.
What I don't like is B.S.
I'm the Preacher, the Wizard and the A**hole of the trail.
People start goofin with my hikers I get pissed and I don't care if your family or friend.

Curtis... sorry. I hit a nerve with my thread. I'm really sorry, I upset you. I can see why now. It's all good. I'm sure that your Hostel will be a great place to stay. Good to hear from you that no one is sick. THat's GREAT! :)

[Toli]

I remember you did something nice a few times....:D

Still do girl... always have, always will...

[HikerMom58]

Oh snap WM...Again???

Dude................

[Toli]

Speculation!
#I stay in your;) mom's basement

That would be hard, my mom died 9 years ago and we sold the house... Too many painful memories...

[HikerMom58]

Still do girl... always have, always will...

I like that!!! :D Sorry to hear about your Mom's passing. I haven't lost either of my parents. I know it must be hard.....

[Kookork]

I prefer to believe ChinMusic because he is right there but even in this case nothing serious is happening. My guess is that a bunch of hikers who hike close to each other are sick and they are passing the virus( if it is a virus )to each other. So if you are travelling within that group it may seem that many hikers are sick. no need to panic, It is not a case of cholera but as a medical doctor I was involved in a serious cholera outbreak in Iran/Afghanistan border and I can tell you that it barks more than it bites let alone this possible virus.

Another Kevin gave a great blueprint about how to approach it but I make it simpler since baking soda and juice may not be available :

Recipe for Making a 1 litre ORS solution using Sugar, Salt and Water


Clean Water - 1 litre - 5 cupfuls (each cup about 200 ml.)
Sugar - Six level teaspoons

Salt - Half level teaspoon

Stir the mixture till the sugar dissolves.

Now use this ORS as frequent as you can and do not get frustrated if you vomit after using it. It works partially enough even if you vomit it.

No medication help unless it is prescribed by a physician and normally not necessary unless it is really severe.

Now Hiker Mom. I respect you even more since you know how to say sorry . It takes courage .

[ChinMusic]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.

[Kookork]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.

I am happy you have not lost your sense of humor on the trail ChinMusic. My year is 2014 .

[Mountain Mike]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.
Yeap sure none of your training as a DDS (did I get that right) has anything to do with infectious diseases!

[Train Wreck]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.

While you're at it, be sure to tell him that they disapprove of his gear, daily mileage, hiking speed, and anything else he hasn't asked their opinion on.

[Another Kevin]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.

I surely don't say he's fine! I say that if it is norovirus and he rehydrates, he'll likely be fine in a couple of days - and miserable (and contagious!) until then.

This outbreak is good cause to be scrupulous about sanitation, because you'll surely be miserable if you come down with a nasty case of gastroenteritis. But it's hardly a public-health emergency, if only because a nasty case of viral gastroenteritis is highly unlikely to be life-threatening in a healthy and athletic population like A-T hikers. A similar outbreak in a hospital, a nursing home, a day-care center or even a cruise ship would be considerably more of a worry, owing to the fact that those communities include more vulnerable individuals.

The warning here is certainly well-placed - it targets the appropriate community and conveys the threat. I could nitpick the original posting for using stronger language than I would have - but it's indeed a nitpick. Instead, in the earlier posting I tried to offer some reassurance - not to minimize your experience, ChinMusic! - and to offer what practical advice I could. And I had hoped that it might turn down the heat in the discussion here - but alas, that appears not to have been the case.

[ChinMusic]

Actually I just heaved. Me and the neighbor were singing a duet. I hope in my case it is because my system couldn't handle the porterhouse 10-K bought me. I'm not ready to state that I'm sick too.

[Mountain Mike]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.
Thanks for the post! I think many are losing sight here of your message that something is wrong in this area. You can offer places & observations & see what is up at ground zero. Suggest other hikers take precautions in this area. It may not be norvro (sp) but something is out there. Not much sand to stick your head under on AT so just take reasonable precautions. I think Hiker Mom was all she wanted to say when she started this thread.

[Another Kevin]

Another Kevin gave a great blueprint about how to approach it but I make it simpler since baking soda and juice may not be available :

Recipe for Making a 1 litre ORS solution using Sugar, Salt and Water


Clean Water - 1 litre - 5 cupfuls (each cup about 200 ml.)
Sugar - Six level teaspoons

Salt - Half level teaspoon

Stir the mixture till the sugar dissolves.

Now use this ORS as frequent as you can and do not get frustrated if you vomit after using it. It works partially enough even if you vomit it.

Right, that's why I said "if available"... and you're right, replacing the baking soda with more salt is OK if that's what you have.

Except for the fact that I carry enough sugar and salt to make a couple of litres of ORS, I wouldn't ordinarily carry either one apart from premixed meals. But, since I usually carry rice, I might instead try making a thin congee - it'd take a lot of fuel to simmer it down properly, but if I could get a campfire going it'd be workable. I think that's the only way I could make several litres of anything if I found myself with a shelter full of sick hikers. Congee is another WHO-recommended rehydration material.

Failing that, I'd push whatever clear liquids I could arrange.

[10-K]

Well, there is definitely something being passed around. I haven't been keeping hard numbers but a majority of the hikers I've picked up in the past 7 days have been ill.

I took a guy to Johnson City yesterday to rent a car so he could drive back home to Ohio - he quit his thru attempt. He said he'd been at the Super 8 sick for 3 days....

Is there a connection? Don't know. Is it norovirus? Don't know. Is it caused by water? Don't know.

But there are a lot of sick hikers out there. The only connection that I can see is that people start getting sick between Hot Springs and Erwin.

[joshuasdad]

I hiked Iron Mountain Gap to Erwin on Sunday (the $10 shuttle special at 7 am from Johnny's). One thru (Ambassador) claimed to have had Norovirus the prior 3 days (took three zeroes in Erwin). Coffee Grounds, the traveling trail angel following this group up, was taking precautions for norovirus (had the hand sanitizer out, and was using it liberally at his hiker feed). Besides a few hikers taking it slow up a hot Beauty Spot climb (which could have been from too many yummy hot dogs), saw no other possible evidence of Norovirus. No one was talking about it at Johnny's, and I saw at least 10 hikers there over three days. Did not hear anything at Hemlock Hollow as well (stopped by on Saturday to pickup my hiking sticks, which I had left there two weeks ago).

[Bronk]

More than likely this is another unintended consequence of the latest trends in ultralight backpacking. As many hikers no longer carry toilet paper and resort to using their hands (and then later wiping them on the shelter walls), the shelters are becoming pretty contaminated. Many hikers are also getting worms. A lot of people are now recommending that people not sleep in shelters but sleep in the privy instead.

[Ladytrekker]

I have a friend who is a LD hiker and the first advice she ever gave me about the trail was never let anyone put their hands in your food bags and never eat anything of anyone's that they put there hands in and if you share your food pour it so I have always practiced this especially working in a hospital know the importance of keeping hands clean that being said on the trail my hands are usually pretty nasty and sanitation goes out the window boy I am ready to get in the woods and get dirty I love it

[Chaco Taco]

I am listening to dry heaves from the room next door as I try to sleep. Poor fellow. I'll tell him in the morning that the experts on WB say he is fine.
You don't get it. You go on the net and make a claim about an epidemic of norovirus from your own observation and assumptions and not ant sort fact based evidence from a medical professional. Allllllll speculations.

[Chaco Taco]

If y'all don't want to believe the severity of this outbreak, frankly I do not care. I actually expect this from WhiteBlaze.

More than half the hikers in the past 5 days between HS and Erwin have become sick. Yes, the Dx of norovirus is speculation, but I would bet money on it. 6 of 6 hikers that stayed at Little Laurel several days ago became sick. Big Bald Shelter has vomit all over it as of last night.

Do what you do best WhiteBlaze.....belittle me. See if I care.
..........................

[Chaco Taco]

Could be fecal bacteria that is also something that could be causing it, not water born. People crap too close to the shelter, people get sick

[rickb]

You don't get it. You go on the net and make a claim about an epidemic of norovirus from your own observation and assumptions and not ant sort fact based evidence from a medical professional. Allllllll speculations.

I'd agree if any of the posters in this thread left their declaration with the implication that this info was coming from some authoritative medical source. When medical experts talk, even the word "severe" can take on a specific meaning. But in this case it seemed clear (to me at least) that all the useful information was simply the best judgement of a hiker who had experience this first hand. Right from the fist post that was made clear. I figured that out, and suspect anyone reading past the "Headline" did too. This is very good info to have online, and I hope Chin Music and everyone else effected feels better. A rose is a rose by any name.

[Chaco Taco]

I'd agree if any of the posters in this thread left their declaration with the implication that this info was coming from some authoritative medical source. When medical experts talk, even the word "severe" can take on a specific meaning. But in this case it seemed clear (to me at least) that all the useful information was simply the best judgement of a hiker who had experience this first hand. Right from the fist post that was made clear. I figured that out, and suspect anyone reading past the "Headline" did too. This is very good info to have online, and I hope Chin Music and everyone else effected feels better. A rose is a rose by any name.
That is a fair assesment and I respect it.

[Chaco Taco]

either way, good luck Chinmusic on your hike. Hope you stay healthy and get to Maine.

[10-K]

The thread title is rather alarmist.

"There are a LOT of sick hikers out here" would have been more accurate and less dramatic.

[Jefe]

Just another way to cull the herd. The strong recover and continue hiking. Wash your hands and don't touch the dirty hikers.

[ChinMusic]

Well, with all my precautions, it got me. About midnight or 1am it hit. And hit hard. I've been up all night heaving and diarrhea. Thank goodness for me I am in town now. Having a toilet in my room is a bonus. As bad as last night was I can't imagine going through that in the field.

I stayed at no shelters. I used no privies. I shared no food. I shook no hands. And the damn thing got me anyway. Who knows maybe a sick hiker had selected the same ground as me for their tent the night before. I was almost certain I had dodged it with my precautions.

[Chaco Taco]

Well, with all my precautions, it got me. About midnight or 1am it hit. And hit hard. I've been up all night heaving and diarrhea. Thank goodness for me I am in town now. Having a toilet in my room is a bonus. As bad as last night was I can't imagine going through that in the field.

I stayed at no shelters. I used no privies. I shared no food. I shook no hands. And the damn thing got me anyway. Who knows maybe a sick hiker had selected the same ground as me for their tent the night before. I was almost certain I had dodged it with my precautions.
Sucks to be you, but ride it out, you will be fine.

[ChinMusic]

Sucks to be you, but ride it out, you will be fine.
Some guys hiked on with it. I'm not made of that. I know I'll be better in a day or so like everyone else. I was due for a zero anyway.

I am actually "lucky" in that I am in town when this hit.

[Chaco Taco]

Some guys hiked on with it. I'm not made of that. I know I'll be better in a day or so like everyone else. I was due for a zero anyway.

I am actually "lucky" in that I am in town when this hit.
Happens every year. Id clean the bottom of your tent and go with Aqua Mira, if you dont already. We wipe our sleeping bags down with denatured alcohol. Be glad its happening early....

[The Cleaner]

When I was up at Jerry's Cabin shelter cutting firewood at the end of last month,I heated a liter or so of water to boiling and poured it on the privy seat:o.........

[wakapak]

Being sick on the Trail does suck, I can say that from experience. With that said, every year there are small pockets of hikers that do get sick for one reason or another out there. My first thru-hike in 1999 I was hit hard with vomiting, diarrhea, nausea while in Daleville/Troutville VA. Turned out lots of other hikers had been sick in that general area too and the local Health Department came out to the hotels and did interviews, took samples, etc. 99 was a very dry year on the trail and water sources were running real slow or not all, so if possible alot of hikers were filling up at places in towns along the way. The day before arriving in Daleville/Troutville we passed through Catawba and stopped at the general store, ate some food, filled water and moved on. We also re-supplied our water on trail between Catawba and Daleville (I did filter that year) from a very slow running almost dried up water source.
Anyway, the Health officials came knocking on our room door to see if any of us were sick (there had been quite a number who were that had previously passed through town) and interviewed us, took samples and let us know they were testing both water in Catawba itself and the sources on trail in between. Here is a write up I have found online from what was found out.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+Norwalk-like+virus+outbreak+on+the+Appalachian+Trail.+(Fea tures).-a085920305

I have hiked the Trail twice since 99 and thankfully never got sick like that again. I have also stayed, ate and drank water in Catawba since then too and all was fine. As I stated before, 99 was a very dry year with that part of the south going through a good drought, which unfortunately sets up situations for contaminated water sources happening.

[ChinMusic]

Happens every year. Id clean the bottom of your tent and go with Aqua Mira, if you dont already. We wipe our sleeping bags down with denatured alcohol. Be glad its happening early....
If it is a norovirus as I suspect, alcohol/hand sanitizer has little effect. It is very susceptible to bleach though.

[wakapak]

Forgot to add in that it turned out water sources in town (wells, outside taps, etc) and on trail were contaminated with Fecal Coliform Bacteria, which was most likely from surrounding agricultural (animals). Just goes to show that even with the best precautions (avoiding shelters, privies, shaking hands, filtering water) you could still get sick.

[Chaco Taco]

If it is a norovirus as I suspect, alcohol/hand sanitizer has little effect. It is very susceptible to bleach though.
Could also be fecal born, human, dog, horse. Hikers poop in overflowing privies, in the woods and track poop into shelters....boom. People in 08 got sick from getting water and NEVER EVER washing their hands or sanitizing them and spread it.

[10-K]

I have been around sick hikers for days and I feel fine.

So...either I have some form of acquired immunity or there is something unique about how it is transmitted.

Regardless, there is something going around.

[Kookork]

Just another way to cull the herd. The strong recover and continue hiking. Wash your hands and don't touch the dirty hikers.

I smell Lone Wolf here.

[illabelle]

Hilarious!

More than likely this is another unintended consequence of the latest trends in ultralight backpacking. As many hikers no longer carry toilet paper and resort to using their hands (and then later wiping them on the shelter walls), the shelters are becoming pretty contaminated. Many hikers are also getting worms. A lot of people are now recommending that people not sleep in shelters but sleep in the privy instead.

[The Cleaner]

When signing shelter registers USE your own pen,if you have one.....

[ChinMusic]

When signing shelter registers USE your own pen,if you have one.....
I haven't even looked at a shelter registers in recent days. I do take your advice about having my own pen. I may just quit looking at them altogether.

[Kookork]

I have been around sick hikers for days and I feel fine.

So...either I have some form of acquired immunity or there is something unique about how it is transmitted.

Regardless, there is something going around.

10-k:

It sounds more like a waterborne infection to me. ChinMusic has done every precaution he could and still he got it that shows it maybe waterborne. This type of infections happens in the seasons and years that due to overflow of streams( heavier than normal precipitation) the water sources mix up .

Ps : This is not an statement and I am using words like" sounds" and "maybe". Fair enough?

ChinMusic: ORS works . It is not fun to drink it I know but it really works both for reducing dehydration and nausea and vomiting.

[aficion]

I haven't even looked at a shelter registers in recent days. I do take your advice about having my own pen. I may just quit looking at them altogether.

Thanks for putting the word out. It will help some hikers avoid getting sick. Sorry it got you and glad you are in a room. Thanks also for all the great pictures and journaling!

[The Cleaner]

Maybe I should go up to Allen Gap and put up a bag of trail magic stash of small bottles of hand sanitizer.....

[Another Kevin]

If it is a norovirus as I suspect, alcohol/hand sanitizer has little effect. It is very susceptible to bleach though.

Phenol also, so try Lysol with stuff that can't tolerate bleach.

[Tuckahoe]

Within the context of the report posted by Wakapak, I found this paragraph interesting.


The majority of hikers filtered or purified their drinking water (73 percent), some used iodine or chlorine to treat water (15 percent), several used a combination of methods (three percent), and a small minority did not filter their water at all (nine percent). Only one person filtered the drinking water at the store; most assumed that this source provided potable water. Hikers who filtered their water were slightly more likely to become ill than those who drank "raw" water. Traveling alone conveyed a small protective effect over traveling in groups of two or more, although the effect was not statistically significant (RR = 0.7; 95 percent CI: 0.4-1.3). Finally, camping overnight at Store A was associated with a 50 percent increased risk of illness compared with not camping at the store (RR = 1.5; 95 percent CI: 1.0-2.1).

[BirdBrain]

much ado over nothin'. sleep in a tent, avoid hostels, shelters, motel rooms with other hikers and you'll be fine. oh and don't treat your water.

Information is good (including many of your 1-liners). Your 2nd sentence is an example of advice I will be heeding. Are you suggesting treating water could be the cause? As a a person who has suffered from the Giardia, I could not disagree more. What is the down side to treating or filtering water? There is an obvious one to not treating and filtering. I am not being sarcastic or a know-it-all. I am here to learn.

[wakapak]

I also found this interesting, and very true. Majority of time town water is safe, however there is always that one in a million instance.


Educating hikers on the nature of the Norwalk-like virus infection and potential risk factors in different environmental settings may help reduce risk and control outbreaks. Hikers should be aware that not all water sources in town are free from contamination -- especially those that rely on well water. Most hikers in this study did not filter water while in town because they assumed the water was potable. Routine inspection and monitoring of public water supply systems is critical to maintaining a safe water supply Nevertheless, wells in heavily agricultural areas can be contaminated by runoff from barns or fields.

[The Cleaner]

Phenol also, so try Lysol with stuff that can't tolerate bleach. I guess I should take a spray bottle w/bleach and spray the privies and shelter/picnic table areas.....

[perrito]

I'd avoid AYCE buffets too. That's unfortunate.....
Take care out there guys.

[wakapak]

I will say that I have done loads and loads of hiking since that time in 99 and more often than not I do not treat my water. However, if I am skeptical of a source I will treat it, but that is very far and few between. Just use your head, if there are cow pastures nearby, treating is better (still not 100 percent protection though) or if the source is slow and low and looks cruddy, it may be a good idea to treat it.

There's also the thought that not treating and drinking "raw" water as the article put it could over time help build ones immunity to things in the water. Who knows really...

[Another Kevin]

Within the context of the report posted by Wakapak, I found this paragraph interesting.

(...Hikers who filtered their water were slightly more likely to become ill than those who drank "raw" water....)

The "treated water" cohort had a confidence interval of 0.6-5.9 on the risk ratio, so the elevated risk did not rise to the level of statistical significance. The cohort was really too small to draw an inference: the authors report that nine percent of the hikers interviewed used no water treatment, and only seventy hikers participated in the study. What can you say about six individuals?

I'd speculate that if there was a protective effect, it might just be that the non-treaters consumed less town water.

What surprised me was that there was one individual who filtered the tap water at the store.

[HikerMom58]

The thread title is rather alarmist.

"There are a LOT of sick hikers out here" would have been more accurate and less dramatic.

I copied the title from someone else that had been on the trail recently - nothing in the OP is my own words. I respect this person(that I quoted) & ChinMusic very much! I believed ChinMusic's report's of all the sick hiker's on the trail. I thought it was appropriate when I posted the thread. I'm not an alarmist and neither is the person I quoted.... just sayin. I like you 2.

[HikerMom58]

Some guys hiked on with it. I'm not made of that. I know I'll be better in a day or so like everyone else. I was due for a zero anyway.

I am actually "lucky" in that I am in town when this hit.

You are doing well, Chin! Sorry to hear that it hit you last night. :mad: It couldn't have happen to a nicer person at the better time. Glad you can ride this out in a more comfortable place! :)

[ChinMusic]

I guess I should take a spray bottle w/bleach and spray the privies and shelter/picnic table areas.....
IMO that would help.

I just ventured out to the lobby of the hotel. More hikers that had previously avoided the illness got hit yesterday. I asked the group of thrus to put a number on the percent of hikers they personally know to have been sick. The common answer was a staggering 80%.

Miss Janet was there and agrees this outbreak is bad.

[BirdBrain]

I copied the title from someone else that had been on the trail recently - nothing in the OP is my own words. I respect this person(that I quoted) & ChinMusic very much! I believed ChinMusic's report's of all the sick hiker's on the trail. I thought it was appropriate when I posted the thread. I'm not an alarmist and neither is the person I quoted.... just sayin. I like you 2.

I believe the information is more important than the perfect phraseology. Those that prefer wording over information should be summarily dismissed. You are wasting your time defending yourself against such critics. They have much practice at being critical and they are not interested in the information. Some are offering constructive criticism. AK is an example. I am not judging each post or poster. I am trying to help a friend.

[Jefe]

I smell Lone Wolf here.

I think he is just rubbing off on me. :)

[aficion]

I copied the title from someone else that had been on the trail recently - nothing in the OP is my own words. I respect this person(that I quoted) & ChinMusic very much! I believed ChinMusic's report's of all the sick hiker's on the trail. I thought it was appropriate when I posted the thread. I'm not an alarmist and neither is the person I quoted.... just sayin. I like you 2.

You clearly did the right thing with the best intentions. Thanks! And please just disregard the obtuse among us.:)

[rocketsocks]

Semantics....Peeps is sick as sick is. Thanks Chin, and thank you Hiker Mom for keeping our community abreast of all that bites and skitters. The trots ain't fun anywhere much less on the trail. Interesting I was in a convenient store yesterday, and saw that the sell "Pedialyte" (not sure I spelled that right) but it is what I'd drink if it were available to replace the much needed electrolytes after a bout.....and how!

[aficion]

I will say that I have done loads and loads of hiking since that time in 99 and more often than not I do not treat my water. However, if I am skeptical of a source I will treat it, but that is very far and few between. Just use your head, if there are cow pastures nearby, treating is better (still not 100 percent protection though) or if the source is slow and low and looks cruddy, it may be a good idea to treat it.

There's also the thought that not treating and drinking "raw" water as the article put it could over time help build ones immunity to things in the water. Who knows really...

I also rarely treat or carry water. I have a knack for finding springs when thirsty, and rarely drink from streams or spigots. So far so good.

[HikerMom58]

Thanks for the support from all of you. Thanks for all your kind words towards me. I'll be more careful next time. ;)

On a positive note, I hope that everyone that is sick out there feels better soon. I hope this illness or whatever it is goes away ASAP. I'm proud to be part of WB b/c I feel the concern and advice, that I've read on this thread, is da bomb!!! :D Have a great day y'all!!

[rocketsocks]

IMO that would help.

I just ventured out to the lobby of the hotel. More hikers that had previously avoided the illness got hit yesterday. I asked the group of thrus to put a number on the percent of hikers they personally know to have been sick. The common answer was a staggering 80%.

Miss Janet was there and agrees this outbreak is bad.Ugh! sounds like somebody's gonna get the trail name "Charmin" before this bug plays out. Stay safe, stay well...stay close to a toilet!

[aficion]

Information is good (including many of your 1-liners). Your 2nd sentence is an example of advice I will be heeding. Are you suggesting treating water could be the cause? As a a person who has suffered from the Giardia, I could not disagree more. What is the down side to treating or filtering water? There is an obvious one to not treating and filtering. I am not being sarcastic or a know-it-all. I am here to learn.

If you are suggesting that a sarcastic know it all can't willingly learn, I am here to differ.

[BirdBrain]

If you are suggesting that a sarcastic know it all can't willingly learn, I am here to differ.

If you were a know-it-all, you would know that you should beg to differ.

[aficion]

If you were a know-it-all, you would know that you should beg to differ.

Begging is unbecoming and not in my nature. I do, however, sincerely appreciate the effort to lighten the mood, while reserving the right to differ.

[rocketsocks]

OMG....Now I think I'm sick....naw it was just gas.

[BirdBrain]

OMG....Now I think I'm sick....naw it was just gas.

Put a sock on it.

[Snowleopard]

Diarrhea and vomiting can lead to serious dehydration, whatever the cause.

Everybody should know to treat dehydration or diarrhea with oral rehydration solution (Pedialyte, Gatorade diluted to half strength, homemade ORS) or plain water if no ORS available. Peptobismol usually helps some with diarrhea. If the dehydration is severe enough, medical treatment is needed (ER visit).

If it's norovirus then filtering water won't help, but treating water with bleach will.
You'll feel miserable if you get it, whether it is a severe outbreak or not.

Another Kevin and Kookork have excellent advice posted that everyone should read.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?94270-SEVERE-norovirus-outbreak&p=1456887&viewfull=1#post1456887
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?94270-SEVERE-norovirus-outbreak&p=1456959&viewfull=1#post1456959
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?94270-SEVERE-norovirus-outbreak&p=1457035&viewfull=1#post1457035

ChinMusic, I hope you get well soon.

As OneSock said, "Stay safe, stay well...stay close to a toilet!" And stay hydrated.

[ChinMusic]

As OneSock said, "Stay safe, stay well...stay close to a toilet!" And stay hydrated.

I just woke up. I agree, I need to drink, but that sounds so unpleasant.

[HikerMom58]

I just woke up. I agree, I need to drink, but that sounds so unpleasant.

Ahhh... so sorry Chin. Come on 24 hours from now! I believe you will feel so much better!! :)

Snowleopard... I like ur post ... very helpful! :sun

[rustmd]

i did a section hike march 29-april 3, from I-40 Crossing, TN to Sam's Gap. there were indeed two shelters where hikers were very sick. i met a group that turned around to hike out, seek medical help. they warned me not to stop at the shelter, touch nothing, keep going. at a second shelter there were 3 tents with hikers laying inside, at noon, feeling very sick, they too told me not stop or touch anything, just move on. i met only a handful of hikers, not many thrus (delayed by the earlier snow), those who recovered said this sickness hit hard & fast, very violent reactions.

glad i did not get sick, good to be hiking alone this time i guess.

.com

[Another Kevin]

Semantics....Peeps is sick as sick is. Thanks Chin, and thank you Hiker Mom for keeping our community abreast of all that bites and skitters. The trots ain't fun anywhere much less on the trail. Interesting I was in a convenient store yesterday, and saw that the sell "Pedialyte" (not sure I spelled that right) but it is what I'd drink if it were available to replace the much needed electrolytes after a bout.....and how!

Pedialyte (or Ricelyte, Infalyte, Rehydralyte, or any of the other brands of ORS) is perfect. I was trying to describe something that could be improvised on the trail, because I have a hard time finding powdered ORS in this part of the world, and nobody wants to hump in all that water. I mix my own at home according to the recipe above. It's not as balanced as Pedialyte (which is buffered to an alkaline pH with 30 mEq of base per litre), but much better than improvising with sport drinks.

An afterthought: If you've been puking, you've been losing zinc rapidly. For two weeks after recovery, replenish your stores witn 20 mg (300 microequivalent) of supplemental zinc daily. Even in convenience stores and truck stops, you can often find zinc gluconate lozenges marketed as a cold remedy - read the label and dose accordingly. That will be an important guard against reinfection because it will help you rebuild damaged intestinal lining.

[Another Kevin]

i did a section hike march 29-april 3, from I-40 Crossing, TN to Sam's Gap. there were indeed two shelters where hikers were very sick. i met a group that turned around to hike out, seek medical help. they warned me not to stop at the shelter, touch nothing, keep going. at a second shelter there were 3 tents with hikers laying inside, at noon, feeling very sick, they too told me not stop or touch anything, just move on. i met only a handful of hikers, not many thrus (delayed by the earlier snow), those who recovered said this sickness hit hard & fast, very violent reactions.

glad i did not get sick, good to be hiking alone this time i guess.

.com

I'm hundreds of miles away, so can't intervene. Any chance of getting a trail angel to hike into the affected shelters with a folding bucket, a bottle of bleach, a floor sponge and a pair of heavy rubber gloves? Mix the bleach 3/4 - 1 cup per gallon of water (water doesn't need to be treated, the bleach will kill everything) and sponge down all surfaces: floor, walls, bunks, picnic table and benches, privy seat, the works. Probably best to wear a surgical mask and safety glasses when doing the job.

Change out the register book (the old one will be safe after a month in a dry place) and pens.

It would be doing all these people a huge favor to have the place decontaminated.

If there's a bear-proof, rodent-proof storage option, then mix individual containers of rehydration salts (recipe above) and leave them along with an instruction sheet so that hikers who still fall ill can self-medicate.

If people are looking to do trail magic that will make a huge difference, this is it.

[Chaco Taco]

drinking too much can lead to dehydration. It happens..........:cool:

[yaduck9]

could someone "lock" this thread, and put it out of its "misery".....

[yaduck9]

Another Kevin

I appreciate the depth and amount of information you have provided, and have communicated in such a deferential manner. Thanks

[Jack Tarlin]

How unfortunate that some folks have personally attacked Curtis Owen, who has run a Trailside hiker facility for many years. He meets countless hikers each and every year. If he says that the illness figures this year are exaggerated, I think this is an opinion that deserves to be respected, and as for the suggestion that as a hostel-owner, he somehow wants to downplay this "crisis" for financial reasons.......just want to say that this suggestion would be utterly laughable were it not so ugly. This is not the way Curtis operates.