Too Much Trail Magic!?!

[Almost There]

Alright, let me preface that I think trail magic in the right places is great, but thinking about the past eight years I've spent on the trail, I can remember starting the AT in March of 2005, and not seeing any trail magic through Georgia. It just seems that it was far less common even 5 years ago than it is today.

Now, reading some trailjournals it seems like some people are hitting it every other day or more from Springer into the Smokies.

Has trail magic gotten out of hand? I mean if you need it the second day out...why are you backpacking? Also does it lend itself to this entitlement attitude we're seeing from some, that is having a detrimental effect on some providers along the trail that do charge for services?

I'm not trying to bash the good hearted people who only want to give encouragement, but have angels become people who feed bears?

Seeing all of it, has sold me on a SOBO thru when my boys are old enough, or I may say screw it and go out to hike the PCT.

Feel free to bash my viewpoint if you want, I've got my big boy pants on, but I really want to know what others are seeing/think.

[Train Wreck]

Alright, let me preface that I think trail magic in the right places is great, but thinking about the past eight years I've spent on the trail, I can remember starting the AT in March of 2005, and not seeing any trail magic through Georgia. It just seems that it was far less common even 5 years ago than it is today.

Now, reading some trailjournals it seems like some people are hitting it every other day or more from Springer into the Smokies.

Has trail magic gotten out of hand? I mean if you need it the second day out...why are you backpacking? Also does it lend itself to this entitlement attitude we're seeing from some, that is having a detrimental effect on some providers along the trail that do charge for services?

I'm not trying to bash the good hearted people who only want to give encouragement, but have angels become people who feed bears?

Seeing all of it, has sold me on a SOBO thru when my boys are old enough, or I may say screw it and go out to hike the PCT.

Feel free to bash my viewpoint if you want, I've got my big boy pants on, but I really want to know what others are seeing/think.

Looking at your avatar, you might want to rephrase that last sentence :p

[max patch]

Looking at your avatar, you might want to rephrase that last sentence :p

i don't know how this thread is going to progress, but i know already that that is the best answer.

[Blissful]

There is a lot of it and except for one giving out Little Debbies, I bypassed it.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Q: Is there too much Trail Magic?

Correct Answer: Maybe, it depends who you ask. :p



i don't know how this thread is going to progress, but i know already that that is the best answer.

We already know how this thread is going to progress, I'm going to just post this comment and then stay away. :sun

[Almost There]

Looking at your avatar, you might want to rephrase that last sentence :p

Awesome response...I got nothing:banana

[Almost There]

I was just thinking early June Pearisburg to Waynesboro in 2006, there were two instances of trail magic... a cooler with sodas on the climb up to Wind Rock...and free lunch for thru hikers at the Dutch House...(and if you were willing to walk that detour you earned the lunch!) Don't know what the magic is like up there in June these days, but just thought I'd throw out the comparison.

[Cookerhiker]

Didn't we just have a thread about this a month or two ago with >100 responses? Do we have to rehash it again? I guess so - that's WhiteBlaze.:rolleyes:

[Almost There]

Didn't we just have a thread about this a month or two ago with >100 responses? Do we have to rehash it again? I guess so - that's WhiteBlaze.:rolleyes:
Sorry, Cooker, nothing original anymore., and many don't see it before it goes goodbye...I didn't or I wouldn't have started it. I was just reading some gal's journal who seemed to get magic every day, and thought, I've read about a ton of magic, and was thinking about the whole Ron Haven thing, and got to thinking the two are most likely linked.

[shelterbuilder]

I've been on both ends of Trail Magic, and if it's done properly, it's cool. Trail Magic is NOT about leaving sodas in a cooler with a note attached (although some would disagree). THAT is just an invitation to "trash" a small corner of the woods. But a cooler full of sodas and ice water (on a 98* day when the springs are drying up) that's manned by the Trail Angel so that there's a give-and-take between PEOPLE (and clean-up afterward) - now THAT'S Trail Magic. It can be as simple as a bottle of water, or as elaborate as a trailside cookout - as long as there are people getting to know each other, getting to help each other, and getting the chance to say "thank you", it's magic.

[HikerMom58]

Trail magic isn't the same as "real" trail magic! ;)

[Almost There]

Trail magic isn't the same as "real" trail magic! ;)

On this we agree 100% "Real" magic is the couple who gave me a ride out the wilderness in Maine when I sprained my MCL, and then bought me lunch. Drove 50 miles out of their way to help me.

[Chaco Taco]

"real" trail magic is when you find Baltimore Jack on a trail relo at fontana and he informs you that he is going to take you with him to Sgt Rock and Dixie's house for some quality southern hospitality. I still tell people this story and it makes me smile.

To answer AT's question, yes there is too much "trail magic" on the AT. Hiker feeds are overdone. The intention is good but it happens way too muc. Why not take the money from those endeavors and donate to local trail clubs or hostels like The Place. These places could use some magic.

[HikerMom58]

On this we agree 100% "Real" magic is the couple who gave me a ride out the wilderness in Maine when I sprained my MCL, and then bought me lunch. Drove 50 miles out of their way to help me.

I concur!!:D

[SCRUB HIKER]

Below is the link to the aforementioned recent thread on the subject. Plenty of viewpoints expressed, some of them valid, some of them not (i.e. "The younger generation is morally bankrupt and thinks they're entitled to take everything and that's why they enjoy trail magic so much."). My view, condensed, is that trail magic, planned or not, is such a benevolent, benign, happy thing that I don't understand how so many people complain about it. Also that no one complains about it when they're hiking, only afterward when they're online.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?93412-Helpful-vs-Non-helpful-Trail-Magic

[Luddite]

I don't consider the coolers or the guys who cook hot dogs trail magic. There's too much of that; it's nice, but it's not trail magic.

Now that woman who pulled over and handed me an ice cold bottle of Guinness draught at some road crossing in NC, that was random and I consider it trail magic. Stuff like that.

[SCRUB HIKER]

I don't consider the coolers or the guys who cook hot dogs trail magic. There's too much of that; it's nice, but it's not trail magic.

Now that woman who pulled over and handed me an ice cold bottle of Guinness draught at some road crossing in NC, that was random and I consider it trail magic. Stuff like that.

You're lucky. The only ice-cold beer anyone ever handed me out of a passing car was a guy who couldn't give me a lift into Buena Vista, but could offer a Natty Light from the cooler in his back seat. Even though it was Natty, that stuff's never tasted so good.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Right now, handing out rolls of toilet paper just north of Hot Springs, N.C. would qualify as "real" trail magic.

[Papa D]

Trail Magic has come to mean food and drink that is virtually "expected" - - hikers have become like the poor bears in the smokies that were once fed by carloads of tourists like fish in a pond at a park. Once they developed a taste for human food, they lurked and now often have to be killed. back to trail magic:

to me, "trail magic" isn't some church having a barbeque for hikers at a road crossing - - that is "expected" - - magic is something "un-expected" and random - - a ride from a remote forest service road on a cold, lonely and rainy day, a free cup of hot coffee or finding a cold beer stashed in a creek with a little note on a branch - - that's magic to me - the rest is just commercial and pedestrian and in the realm of what I like to hike to escape from.

[Chaco Taco]

Right now, handing out rolls of toilet paper just north of Hot Springs, N.C. would qualify as "real" trail magic.
thats pretty funnuy, maybe multiple rolls to each hiker

[Alligator]

And some ice cold Pedialyte.

[Ladytrekker]

I was thinking this the other day when I was catching reading updated trail journals that it seemed that trail manic wad at every corner although I think it admirable I think it's overdone I go hiking to escape and be totally independent this is a little intrusive I think just my opinion

[Kookork]

I think trail magic is simply a nice tradition that is almost exclusively done on AT( I might be wrong). It is done with the best intention and shows the generosity of a nation toward their hikers. It is now part of the culture and the good thing is that if somebody does not like it he/she can pass it. we are not forced to accept it. It is a gesture of humanity. If they clean the place they feed the hikers before they leave ,I think there is no harm in doing it.

Some of the trail magics now are more than trail magic, they are trail feasts.

Trail magic is mostly a random act of helping hand and is sweater when it is random. Call it trail feast or trail magic, it is a nice gesture. It rises the moral and fun of the trail.If some people are now feeling entitled by receiving it ,it is their attitude problem and I do not blame the trail magic for that . I blame the entitlement attitude of some of the new hikers.

[Schooley]

My first thought is " don't look a gift horse in the mouth"... of you don't want the "trail magic" - keep walking and don't take it. But I am just a section hiker and haven't experienced a lot of it.

[Chaco Taco]

I think trail magic is simply a nice tradition that is almost exclusively done on AT( I might be wrong). It is done with the best intention and shows the generosity of a nation toward their hikers. It is now part of the culture and the good thing is that if somebody does not like it he/she can pass it. we are not forced to accept it. It is a gesture of humanity. If they clean the place they feed the hikers before they leave ,I think there is no harm in doing it.

Some of the trail magics now are more than trail magic, they are trail feasts.

Trail magic is mostly a random act of helping hand and is sweater when it is random. Call it trail feast or trail magic, it is a nice gesture. It rises the moral and fun of the trail.If some people are now feeling entitled by receiving it ,it is their attitude problem and I do not blame the trail magic for that . I blame the entitlement attitude of some of the new hikers.
I think you are refering to Hiker Feeds? I do not group hiker feeds and trail magic together. Coolers left on the trailside is not really trail magic. Trail magic is situiations like Almost There had described. Getting a ride from a total stranger when the need is great. Sitting in a thunderdtorm at a gas station at 7pm and a nice lady and her kids asking if you and your 10 friends would like to come to their house and dry out and get a good nights sleep. To me, thats trail magic. Totally spontaneous and unexpected. Seeing a sign posted at UJ's advertising the Sams Gap Feed is not, in my opinion, trail magic. But the again, you will get all sorts of Trail Magic descriptions and definitions.

[Cookerhiker]

Below is the link to the aforementioned recent thread on the subject. Plenty of viewpoints expressed, some of them valid, some of them not (i.e. "The younger generation is morally bankrupt and thinks they're entitled to take everything and that's why they enjoy trail magic so much."). My view, condensed, is that trail magic, planned or not, is such a benevolent, benign, happy thing that I don't understand how so many people complain about it. Also that no one complains about it when they're hiking, only afterward when they're online.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?93412-Helpful-vs-Non-helpful-Trail-Magic

Thanks for finding this. And since we're having the same discussion again, here's what I said on that thread:

I have nothing against hiker feeds - I've taken advantage of the few I've encountered while section hiking and I also organized one myself, setting up at the Gathland State Park in MD and feeding 17 thruhikers.

Well-organized and well-publicized feeds and events are not really "magical" when most hikers know about them in advance because they're either an annual event or the word spreads up and down the corridor: "Hey, did you hear there's gonna be trail magic tomorrow at XXX gap?" Again that's not to say that they're bad or "unhelpful." There's just very little "magic" involved, putting such events on the same plane as true magic which as others have stated, is usually spontaneous and serendipitous.

From the book I'm writing about my Colorado Trail thruhike, I've addressed the subject after we had enjoyed 2 instances of trail magic early in the hike within an hour of each other:



"....A young guy with a dog came by, struck up a conversation, and offered a ride back to the trailhead. Because he was basically living out of his car, we couldn’t fit in together with our packs so he made two trips. He was recently homeless and could use our proffered gas money so things worked out....

Dee ... offered to call Northern Harrier’s wife Charlene when she reached an area with cell phone service to assure her we were still alive and well, a gesture which greatly relieved him.

Here it was only our third day and twice in less than a one-hour period, we were recipients of Trail Magic provided by Trail Angels. What? When people do good things for hikers, especially when the acts are unexpected, unplanned, spontaneous, arising from circumstances, from being at the right place at the right time - the givers are Trail Angels and the act is Trail Magic. The homeless guy didn’t go out looking to do good deeds. He met us, we talked, and the offer of his act was generated. We all know this kind of serendipity occurs in life as well and is not limited to hikers on trails.

In recent years, the term “Trail Magic” has been misused in a reductionist way to be regarded as one-and-the-same with well-organized and publicized “hiker feeds” and with leaving coolers of food and drinks in the woods where, if not tended to every day, they inevitably cause litter. But the best Trail Magic I’ve received is real “magic” like the time I lost the tip of my hiking pole and a hiker behind me a half-hour later happened to see it sticking in the mud. Or back in 1980 when I lost a camera hiking in Vermont, convinced myself it was gone for good, and celebrated my good fortune when it was returned after posting a lost-and-found notice. So on this day, we had received the first of what turned out to be many instances of bona fide Trail Magic."

[Lone Wolf]

i took a 30 pack of beer and a quart of shine packed on ice into lost mtn. shelter yesterday. i'm a hypocrite

[Chaco Taco]

i took a 30 pack of beer and a quart of shine packed on ice into lost mtn. shelter yesterday. i'm a hypocrite
Now thats magic.....Shine can be medicinal..

[barf_jay]

In my opinion can you really overdue helping out someone out on the trail, either by providing food or drink at a road crossing? If you don't want to partake then just walk on by, but I think the majority of hikers really appreciate the help. I did a hiker feed a few weeks ago up at Woody Gap, helped out about 30 hikers, and the whole thing went great. Everyone was very thankful and appreciated the items provided. That is my 2 cents.

I will be doing it again next year.....

[Jack Tarlin]

This subject seems to come up annually. When I was growing up in Boston, one was taught this: When offered something by a stranger or anyone else, if you're not interested, you look the person in the eye, smile, and say "No, thank you." The very simple answer and solution to the folks who think that there is excessive Trail magic is quite simple: Decline it, and keep walking. This is not rocketry.

[Spirit Bear]

Has anyone ever thru hiked only surviving on trail magic?

I wonder how far one could go packing no food or water if they left out around april 1st.

[msupple]

Below is the link to the aforementioned recent thread on the subject. Plenty of viewpoints expressed, some of them valid, some of them not (i.e. "The younger generation is morally bankrupt and thinks they're entitled to take everything and that's why they enjoy trail magic so much."). My view, condensed, is that trail magic, planned or not, is such a benevolent, benign, happy thing that I don't understand how so many people complain about it. Also that no one complains about it when they're hiking, only afterward when they're online.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?93412-Helpful-vs-Non-helpful-Trail-Magic I'm with you. Last Spring I experienced what I refer to as my trifecta trail magic experience. I hiked into a gap one night as two church elders were setting up their camp. They insisted I eat with them. When I awoke the two had grown to thirty with a full blown smorgasbord going on. Several miles up the trail a couple of former thrus were passing out PBRs and one of the best stews I've ever eaten. Along about dinner time I crossed another gap and came across another couple from out west who invited hikers to camp with then including a full blow dinner. I must have gained five pounds that day and appreciated both the company and the food. It was all pretty magical to me and it left me with great memories....perhaps the best magic of all. Cat in the Hat

[MDSection12]

i took a 30 pack of beer and a quart of shine packed on ice into lost mtn. shelter yesterday. i'm a hypocrite
I've wondered about this; is the assumption that any underage kids will be with an adult? I can only imagine if a bunch of teenagers are the first to get to that they're gonna be happy campers... Followed by really, really unhappy campers most likely.

More on topic; between the hiker feeds and 'SEVERE outbreaks' I've been convinced that if I ever hike the AT it will be SOBO. It's funny but I came to this site with the dream of thru-hiking the AT and the more I read the less I want to do it. I still love section hiking on the AT, but the idea of doing the whole thing within the 'bubble' of other thrus has been almost completely pushed from my mind.

[Kookork]

Couple of years ago,I was waiting beside a not so busy road to hitchhike with my dog with no success. It was raining heavily and was getting late in the afternoon, then a car passed by and slowed down and then stopped way ahead of me. Two young fellow were in the car ,maybe early twenties. I ran toward them to take the ride when the driver drove his car fast showing me his middle finger and they both laughed at me looking back. I was like what the hell is wrong with them and just started to laugh at my misery.

Half an hour later a car came by and stopped and gave me a ride. I opened the conversation with the driver and told him about the incident. He himself was a hiker and a dog lover and we were enjoying our conversation when we saw a car that seemed the driver had lost the control and the car was in the mud and the occupants were trying to hitch hike to the next town for finding a way to save their car from the deep mud.

When we got closer ,I found out that the car belongs to the fellows who showed me the middle finger and I told him that this is the car and driver that I was talking about. He slowed down and stopped for a second. Then with no hesitation he drove his car and said , let them stay in the rain for a while.

I just laughed and taught to myself maybe it is a trail magic.

[atraildreamer]

Didn't we just have a thread about this a month or two ago with >100 responses? Do we have to rehash it again? I guess so - that's WhiteBlaze.:rolleyes:

Never let a good disagreement die! :mad: It helps to fight off boredom! :D

[max patch]

There can never be too much trail magic.

Trail feeds are not trail magic.

[max patch]

Wingfoot used to say that trail feeds were more for the benefit of the giver, not the recipient.

Lot of truth in that observation.

[FarmerChef]

To the OP's question I have to say that as a section hiker my experience with trail magic in the form of food is that it has been few and far between. It so rare for us that we consider it magic to find anything. On this last hike we found a bag of easter candy and fruit left in a trash bag with a note that said, "Happy Easter" at Overmountain Shelter. That was nice but we had already humped in 5 pounds (you read that right) of candy and treats for my wife, myself and our kids. So we let that be (ok, except for one orange we split 3 ways).

On our last day out we were told by NOBO hikers (we were SOBO) that there was a hiker feed at the place we parked our car - they had hotdogs and they encouraged us to go. By the time we got there they had already packed up and left with only the smell lingering in the air. Had they been there we would have said hello but probably not taken anything. After all, we were about to drive to food anyway.

What we did receive was a hitch in the rain on the eve of a big winter storm (for 5 people and a dog, no small hitch), a helping hand from one hostel owner to another to find us a place to stay in Damascus, a free ride on one of our shuttle days, and my girls getting their hair braided by Connie at Greasy Creek Friendly. I planned for none of that and in the case of the hitch and a place to stay it was just what we needed at just the right time.

So for me I personally haven't seen "too much" trail magic but the magic we've received/given back have easily been some of the most memorable moments for my kids and that means a lot to me.

[Coosa]

Trail Magic is in the eye of the beholder. No one forces anyone to accept it. A POLITE "Thanks for the offer, but I'm good" will suffice if you don't wish to partake.

Back in the day ... early 2000's, during a drought in North GA, I was taking 20 one-gallon jugs of water to Hog Pen Gap and refilling them at least twice a day and three to four times on weekends [on week days, dropping full jugs off before work, collecting empties at lunch break and dropping off more full jugs and collecting empties in the evening and dropping off filled jugs.] I left notes asking hikers to take the Water but Leave the Jugs so I could re-use them. This worked well for a couple of weeks or so ... maybe a month, my memory is fuzzy.

WELL, not ALL my memory.

THEN, one day after work, when I got to Hog Pen Gap, ALL my jugs of water were gone. I'm talking 20 one-gallon jugs of water. GONE. The rope I'd used to attach them between trees was cut. My plastic bag with note paper and pen were there, no indication what happened. I knew no one in an "official" capacity had removed them because there was no 'ticket' or notice.

Needless to say, I was fuming at the inconsiderate "hikers" when the Ridge Runner came across the road toting nearly all of my empty jugs. THAT was when I found out that a BOY SCOUT group had CONFISCATED my jugs and water and then as they drank the water, just Littered the AT with the empty jugs.

THAT WAS THE END OF THAT TRAIL MAGIC.

I told the Ridge Runner that from that moment on, it was survival of the fittest. I was done on both sides and would NOT be a party to inconsiderate LITTERING in the woods. Not to mention the unkind, selfish stealing of my water jugs without regard to the work and time and gasoline money it took to provide the Trail Magic. Total disregard of other people. I'm still fuming, aren't I? [You now understand why I have a distaste for Boy Scout and other "Wilderness" style groups who hike the Appalachian Trail without regard to the environment and Trail etiquette?]

I wasn't looking for a 'reward' ... I left instructions to TAKE THE WATER but leave the jugs ... I'm sure the Boy Scout group had water containers ... and had they been thoughtful, I'd have kept providing water until we got some rain to relieve the drought.

REMEMBER ... it only takes ONE person or group to mess up Trail Magic for others ... be it a Hostel, a Motel, a Restaurant, a Grocery Store, a Shelter, a Shuttle, an offer of a ride, a cooler of drinks, a stash of water in a dry year, etc. Therefore, BE POLITE ... you don't have to agree with the Trail Magic, you don't have to partake of it, but do not trash the Magic itself. You can walk all the way into town, you can live in your tent/tarp/hammock the entire hike, you can skip the can of cola or brew or refuse to refill your canteen with water from a jug in a dry year, you can be an island unto yourself ... but if you partake of the Amenities and the Trail Magic ... do so with civility and class. And please do not take advantage of other people or of businesses along the AT.

RANT OVER.

Oh, I didn't stop the Trail Magic. I'd bring fresh veggies to Neel Gap, hand out homemade cookies, and even hauled in a 6-pack of brew to Low Gap ... the back way, not on the AT. And one time, for John O'Mahoney, I cached water at Unicoi Gap.

When I hike this year and next, do I 'expect' a payback in Trail Magic? I'm not planning on it. If it comes, I'll be pleasantly blessed. If it doesn't, I'll be fine.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm good.
Coosa

[SCRUB HIKER]

i took a 30 pack of beer and a quart of shine packed on ice into lost mtn. shelter yesterday. i'm a hypocrite

nothin' magical about goin' blind!

[Luddite]

I've wondered about this; is the assumption that any underage kids will be with an adult? I can only imagine if a bunch of teenagers are the first to get to that they're gonna be happy campers... Followed by really, really unhappy campers most likely.


At least they're not driving.

[Almost There]

Reading everyone's posts I think maybe the term "trail Magic" has come to be used for far more than "magic." So I suppose when thought of it that way there is still th right amount of "magic" out there, just a lot more planned events than there used to be.

[HikerMom58]

Reading everyone's posts I think maybe the term "trail Magic" has come to be used for far more than "magic." So I suppose when thought of it that way there is still th right amount of "magic" out there, just a lot more planned events than there used to be.

One could say that for sure!! :D I love your avatar!! It makes me laugh every time!!

[RED-DOG]

If you don't like Trail Magic or don't want it just say NO, but me when i am on the trail and see some one giving stuff away i will walk over and say HOWDY if i don't want it i say NO thank you and walk away. But the Magic i can't say no to is those coolers that sits at trail heads or the beer some one leaves in a nice spring.:jump

[Almost There]

One could say that for sure!! :D I love your avatar!! It makes me laugh every time!!
Thanks! Found it a few years back and just stuck with it!:banana

[FarmerChef]

Ok. One more trail magic story from my last section hike a couple weeks ago.

When we hiked out of the trail to find our car, our battery was dead. Though I had called AAA they weren't exactly confident of where we were and I was worried about when we'd get home (turned out to be 5am thanks to a 2 hour dead stop on I81). Well, as magic would have it, a woman in a car pulled up on the road and I flagged her down. She helped us jump our car. What she said while we were hooking up batteries blew me away. She told me she'd been watching our car all week as she passed by and was glad to see we had arrived safely. She had been a bit worried with the weather.

I'm sure she was just driving back and forth on her commute or something similar but I was touched that she cared enough to pay attention to the car and cared about whether or not we made it back safely. Trail Magic from a Trail Angel.

[fireneck]

My view, condensed, is that trail magic, planned or not, is such a benevolent, benign, happy thing that I don't understand how so many people complain about it. Also that no one complains about it when they're hiking, only afterward when they're online.

^This is so true.

Last year the bubble I was hiking in would jokingly say, "The trail will provide, maaan." In Carlin's Hippie Dippie Weatherman voice. And it did many times... left my chapstick at a Wayside. Found one at a beautiful overlook. Was not able to speak to my mom for over a week because of phone issues and a nice woman let me use her smartphone to email my mom/send a photo of me in Pine Grove Furnace. This wonderful woman had no clue I had not been in contact with my Mom. This type of trail magic, is just dumb luck -- happenstance. It's a part of long distance hiking. The trail does provide... maann.

I of course do enjoy a fine soda at a road crossing, as well. :cool:

[SwissGuy]

See, I have of course not thru'd the AT yet, but have done many other trails... I always took trail magic to mean that kind of supernatural help that came up out of nowhere when you really needed it. It was your duty as a hiker to stop and help when someone needed it and provide trail magic to them, because you might need the help down the line. Even when I'm behind on mileage or tired or in a bad mood, you stop and help the poor soul sitting by the side of the trail with a broken pack strap, or no water, or who just needs a little pep talk. You give freely of yourself and the trail will repay you in dividends.

So, whatever they mean by trail magic nowadays, that is what it will always mean to me.

[HikerMom58]

See, I have of course not thru'd the AT yet, but have done many other trails... I always took trail magic to mean that kind of supernatural help that came up out of nowhere when you really needed it. It was your duty as a hiker to stop and help when someone needed it and provide trail magic to them, because you might need the help down the line. Even when I'm behind on mileage or tired or in a bad mood, you stop and help the poor soul sitting by the side of the trail with a broken pack strap, or no water, or who just needs a little pep talk. You give freely of yourself and the trail will repay you in dividends.

So, whatever they mean by trail magic nowadays, that is what it will always mean to me.

Wow....that's about the best definition of trail magic that I have ever heard. I'm not saying that I discount or belittle any act of kindness that someone randomly does or even plans to do, but yeah, you nailed that one Swissguy... well done! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-signs018.gif And you are right on, when you mention your fellow hikers more than random strangers having your back. Excellent!

[Seatbelt]

Wow....that's about the best definition of trail magic that I have ever heard. I'm not saying that I discount or belittle any act of kindness that someone randomly does or even plans to do, but yeah, you nailed that one Swissguy... well done! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-signs018.gif And you are right on, when you mention your fellow hikers more than random strangers having your back. Excellent!
Ditto here. And i don't understand how a six pack in a spring is trail magic but a cooler full of soda is not??

[MDSection12]

Ditto here. And i don't understand how a six pack in a spring is trail magic but a cooler full of soda is not??

You don't understand why beer is magical and soda is not? There's no hope for you then. :p

[Seatbelt]

You got me there!! I surely do understand the difference, I digress...

[EllieMP]

Wow.. You have spent eight years on the trail? You are sooo fortunate to be able to do that!

I do not fully understand why "Trail Magic" is bothering you enough to write against it. It's a wonderful thing that people are doing for others. There is no one there forcing you to accept it. I don't believe it is a matter of "needing" it on the second day or further along. I'm not planning my hike with the assumption that there will be trail magic to supplement my own food.

Are the providers along the trail complaining? You compare us to "bears" who will become dependent on trail magic? How silly is that!

No.. I give thanks to anyone who is willing to share what they have with those who are making a long journey. They understand that we have a goal and want to see us achieve it. A celebration of sorts! Does it matter where on the trail that acknowledgement is made?

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you"!

[Jack Tarlin]

This conversation is not new. And everytime I hear it, I think about all those times I've been at a fireworks display and people complain about the noise, or that they're too many red ones....... Oh, wait a minute. I've NEVER heard anything this silly at a fireworks show. And that about sums up this dialogue. You don't wanna accept kindnesses from strangers? You have qualms about the propriety of such offerings? Cool. Decline them. Why this is somehow a complicated concept for some folks completely escapes me. Any four year old knows how to smile and say "No, thank you." Why this simple statement becomes a problem for people twenty-five years later is a mystery.

[Almost There]

Wow.. You have spent eight years on the trail? You are sooo fortunate to be able to do that!

I do not fully understand why "Trail Magic" is bothering you enough to write against it. It's a wonderful thing that people are doing for others. There is no one there forcing you to accept it. I don't believe it is a matter of "needing" it on the second day or further along. I'm not planning my hike with the assumption that there will be trail magic to supplement my own food.

Are the providers along the trail complaining? You compare us to "bears" who will become dependent on trail magic? How silly is that!

No.. I give thanks to anyone who is willing to share what they have with those who are making a long journey. They understand that we have a goal and want to see us achieve it. A celebration of sorts! Does it matter where on the trail that acknowledgement is made?

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you"!

It isn't that trail magic bothers me, I was just positing a question based upon observation, and asking if people thought some of the entitlement attitude we're now seeing on the trail has to do with all the free stuff given out to hikers now.

I believe I gave kudos to those who offer help/do feeds/magic. Didn't know asking a question was belittling people.

See I'm the type of person who has no issue with what a trail business charges, and gladly pay for services I want or need. I don't haggle or complain about what someone charges me, and know up front what things are going to cost me. Hiking is a vacation, and vacations cost most people money.

[Almost There]

This conversation is not new. And everytime I hear it, I think about all those times I've been at a fireworks display and people complain about the noise, or that they're too many red ones....... Oh, wait a minute. I've NEVER heard anything this silly at a fireworks show. And that about sums up this dialogue. You don't wanna accept kindnesses from strangers? You have qualms about the propriety of such offerings? Cool. Decline them. Why this is somehow a complicated concept for some folks completely escapes me. Any four year old knows how to smile and say "No, thank you." Why this simple statement becomes a problem for people twenty-five years later is a mystery.

Jack, I don't know if you're addressing me or the entire group. If you remember me then you know my background as a historian, and know a policy analyst means I don't get mad about much, and honestly like to start a dialogue to find out what others think. There has been a lot of complaining about cheap and rude hikers this year and last year...my question was to cut it down to a simple question..."Does free stuff help to create a sense of entitlement/rudeness amongst some hikers?" Nowhere was I attacking those who provide niceties, nor was I suggesting people should not accept them.

Sorry for making an observation you have fault with. I haven't had this conversation before. I think you missed the point of the question, because you've heard the discussion so many times.

Put another way, if people are gonna give tons of free stuff to hikers, should they really be surprised that some hikers are entitled/greedy/rude? I have two boys now, and if I give them everything their little hearts desire should I be surprised when they throw a fit the first time I say no?

BTW, Jack I've always like you, and have always thought you a friend to all hikers...if we disagree on this point, then that's ok too.

At least we'll always have Doyle.:rolleyes:

[Almost There]

Cont'd-The trail is still the real world, and as such mirrors it in different ways. It may bring out the best in some, but some...sadly it does not.

[Colter]

Awesome response...I got nothing:banana

Except that response. Nice!

[hoppy from GA]

After a section hike, I left a bag of oranges at Dicks Creek Gap, GA with a note to help yourself to a piece of fruit because I saw someone eating a piece of fruit at a shelter earlier and thought it was the most delicious thing I ever set my eyes on. I'm I going to hell, now?

[RED-DOG]

Has anyone ever thru hiked only surviving on trail magic?

I wonder how far one could go packing no food or water if they left out around april 1st.

You could probably make it to VA, then you would have to start buying food, because their is not much "MAGIC" from VA to ME, Good Luck and Happy Hiking.:-?

[Nooga]

I didn't hear anyone complaining last year about the water left at road crossings in PA - NY, or the cooler of drinks and snacks left by the Sunday School class in VA. I think it is all good. No one is forcing anyone to partake. Its easy, just keep walking.....

[louisb]

I'm I going to hell, now?

No, just North Carolina.

--louis

[rickb]

Some opinions are best kept to ones self-- not just because yours might reveal you to be a Neanderthal, but because they really don't matter.

Like mine regarding woman's sufferage.

Opinions on Trail Magic are now on this same group.

But not sure I buy the idea those who elect to walk on by such generosity wont have the spirit of their hikes impacted.

To my way of thinking, that is like saying hiking in a place with frequent road crossings is no different than one where there are few-- just so long as you don't elect to hitch down one of them.

God help you all if I ever decide to set up a BBQ and entertain myself sharing my rapier wit and years of unparalleled wisdom in person.

[MDSection12]

Some opinions are best kept to ones self-- not just because yours might reveal you to be a Neanderthal, but because they really don't matter.

Like mine regarding woman's sufferage.

Opinions on Trail Magic are now on this same group.

But not sure I buy the idea those who elect to walk on by such generosity wont have the spirit of their hikes impacted.

To my way of thinking, that is like saying hiking in a place with frequent road crossings is no different than one where there are few-- just so long as you don't elect to hitch down one of them.

God help you all if I ever decide to set up a BBQ and entertain myself sharing my rapier wit and years of unparalleled wisdom in person.
Well stated all around. Unfortunately the answer seems to be 'if you don't like it hike elsewhere.'

[Jack Tarlin]

To Almost There: My last comment (Post 54, I think) was certainly NOT directed at you or at anyone individual. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And I understand the potential (actually, sometimes, it's a very real) problem with "entitled" hikers thinking everything they see on the Trail is free or just for them. But I still have a problem with people who make such a hullaballoo about Trail Magic. Done properly, i.e. not in a backwoods/wilderness setting, but instead, in a park or parking area, it hurts nobody, and people can take part or pass it by as they please. I simply don't think this issue is that big a deal.

[max patch]

The ATC says that trail feeds should not be done; but adds that if their recommendation is ignored and a trail feed is going to be done anyway that (a) it not be done directly on the trail, and (b) it not be advertised.

I find it interesting that the recommendations of the organization charged with looking after the best interests of the trail are ignored.

Wingfoot used to say that the trail feeds are done for the benefit of the giver, not the recipient.

Where should a trail feed be done? Best place in GA would be at Mountain Crossings.

[MDSection12]

I don't think 'trail feeds' really exist up here in MD... At least not that I've ever seen. Funny thing is that means the hiker feeds are predominantly benefitting those that won't make it. (Just from a statistics standpoint.)

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, Max Patch, you are very much mistaken. "Trail Feeds", whether it's a large cookout, party, or any other kind of get-together where all sorts of stuff is given away, should NOT be done at or adjacent to any business/restaurant that sells food, anymore than a "Hiker gear giveaway!!" would be appropriate on the property of a Trail outfitter. There are all sorts of businesses on or near the Appalachian Trail that have, for years, catered to hikers, have gone out of their way to help them, etc. People that want to do Trail magic should make sure they're doing it somewhere where it doesn't negatively impact anyone.......or let's put it another way: If you want to give away 20 pizzas to passing hikers, I think that's swell. If you do it in a Trail town in a parking lot next to a pizzeria that has been welcoming to hikers for many years.....probably not so swell. First rule with Trail magic: Do no harm.

[Hairbear]

Looking at your avatar, you might want to rephrase that last sentence :p You just made tears come out of my eyes I laughed so hard.

[HikerMom58]

You just made tears come out of my eyes I laughed so hard.

Between TW and Rasty... they never disappoint for a good laugh! :D

[Almost There]

To Almost There: My last comment (Post 54, I think) was certainly NOT directed at you or at anyone individual. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And I understand the potential (actually, sometimes, it's a very real) problem with "entitled" hikers thinking everything they see on the Trail is free or just for them. But I still have a problem with people who make such a hullaballoo about Trail Magic. Done properly, i.e. not in a backwoods/wilderness setting, but instead, in a park or parking area, it hurts nobody, and people can take part or pass it by as they please. I simply don't think this issue is that big a deal.


Appreciate the response Jack. You've always been a standup guy to me on WB, and in person. My purpose in starting this wasn't to disparage those that provide food/services, or magic to hikers, but to see if others thought there might be a link between behavior and "free stuff." I wasn't even saying I thought it was a big deal. My mind just picks away at stuff, and sometimes I just have see what others think. Take care of yourself!

[Almost There]

You just made tears come out of my eyes I laughed so hard.

Hey! Be nice, mullets and diapers are SEXY!!!:cool:

[max patch]

Actually, Max Patch, you are very much mistaken. "Trail Feeds", whether it's a large cookout, party, or any other kind of get-together where all sorts of stuff is given away, should NOT be done at or adjacent to any business/restaurant that sells food, anymore than a "Hiker gear giveaway!!" would be appropriate on the property of a Trail outfitter. There are all sorts of businesses on or near the Appalachian Trail that have, for years, catered to hikers, have gone out of their way to help them, etc. People that want to do Trail magic should make sure they're doing it somewhere where it doesn't negatively impact anyone.......or let's put it another way: If you want to give away 20 pizzas to passing hikers, I think that's swell. If you do it in a Trail town in a parking lot next to a pizzeria that has been welcoming to hikers for many years.....probably not so swell. First rule with Trail magic: Do no harm.

What I meant - although I didn't say it - was that Mountain Crossings is an excellent place for a feed (for those who feel the need to do one) and IT SHOULD BE COORDINATED THRU MOUNTAIN CROSSINGS. Mountain Crossings, for those not yet familiar with the place, has many groups that put on feeds there next to the building. I did not mean to imply that one should just show up and set up in the parking lot.

[Jack Tarlin]

Thanx, Max. There are indeed several local groups (mostly church affiliated) that regularly hold hiker events here at Neel Gap. Everyone has a good time and we're delighted to work with them.

[Hairbear]

Seems to me that trail magic is no different than any other gift,it has to be taken in the same spirit that it is given to enjoy the gift

[Hairbear]

Hey! Be nice, mullets and diapers are SEXY!!!:cool:

Grin, I hear joe dirts baby pictures will be in playgirl magazine this month.

[Capt Nat]

That would be Joey Dirt...

[Darwin13]

Only on this website would trail magic ever come under scrutiny. Off to backpacking light for everything now, this site has become too gross now

[HikerMom58]

Only on this website would trail magic ever come under scrutiny. Off to backpacking light for everything now, this site has become too gross now

I know exactly how you feel, Darwin13. Who would have thunk it---trail magic under scrutiny? :-? Just try to stay open minded about it all. That's what I've had to do. Some comments are just so ridiculous it's laughable. :D Some comments make sense as to the "downside" of trail magic but those are few and far between.

[max patch]

No one has a problem with trail magic. Trail feeds are what is being debated.

[MDSection12]

Only on this website would trail magic ever come under scrutiny. Off to backpacking light for everything now, this site has become too gross now

Yes of course. Anything done with good intentions is above scrutiny. That's worked out really well in the past. :rolleyes:

[Almost There]

No one has a problem with trail magic. Trail feeds are what is being debated.

Agreed! Perhaps I titled wrong, but most seem to lump it all into one pot these days, and I didn't mean for it to be a debate, but rather a rational...woops there's my mistake, well I meant for it to be a discussion.

[Doctari]

Trail magic isn't the same as "real" trail magic! ;)

To me, "Trail Magic" is just that, MAGIC! Where you meet someone along the trail who helps you out, not planned, not extravagant, etc. Help with maybe with just a "Spare" candy bar, or with a little extra water, or in the case of my first magic meeting, 3 Triscuits, that were EXACTLY what I needed right then, no more, no less.
What I think of what the OP refers to as "Trail CHARITY!" & in moderation, that too is nice. But at every road crossing there is a group of people with burgers & chips & drinks & on & on & on. Yea, IMHO that is WAY too much.

[rickb]

To me, "Trail Magic" is just that, MAGIC! Where you meet someone along the trail who helps you out, not planned, not extravagant, etc. Help with maybe with just a "Spare" candy bar, or with a little extra water, or in the case of my first magic meeting, 3 Triscuits, that were EXACTLY what I needed right then, no more, no less.
What I think of what the OP refers to as "Trail CHARITY!" & in moderation, that too is nice. But at every road crossing there is a group of people with burgers & chips & drinks & on & on & on. Yea, IMHO that is WAY too much.

I am sure you found the foundation for the magic in your first example to matter, too.

It flowed from a connection made between strangers.

It wasn't bestowed upon you because you were held up as something special, or deserving, or a member of a fraternity by someone driving to intercept you.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I am sure you found the foundation for the magic in your first example to matter, too.

It flowed from a connection made between strangers.

It wasn't bestowed upon you because you were held up as something special, or deserving, or a member of a fraternity by someone driving to intercept you.

I.... Have no response, that was perfect. :sun

[yaduck9]

No one has a problem with trail magic. Trail feeds are what is being debated.

In Japanese society, the act of giving and receiving is a very structured.

http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=610&catid=18#02

Giving a gift obligates the receiver for something of value in return.

In America, the ritual of gift giving is muddled at best. I suspect there is a breakdown of communication between the two parties. For our culture, the usual path of resolution is joint therapy, arbitration, or in the worst case..........the courts. I hope we don't get to that :rolleyes: