We worry too much about gear....

[Parkie Man]

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/photos/10-famous-appalachian-trail-hikers/grandma-gatewood

Take the time to read about Grandma Gatewood.first woman to solo thru hike and first person to thru hike 3 times.....and she did it in a pair of Keds

I'm taking her picture wwith me next year on my thru.

http://images.mnn.com/sites/default/files/styles/node-gallery-display/public/grandmagatewood_0.jpg

[Venchka]

Amen! "Run what you brung."

Wayne

[Therunner1Guy]

Cool Link. I agree, people managed to complete trails long before tech fabrics and UL Gear. Not that I want to go in with only my converse all stars and a toothbrush, but it's ok to not have "The perfect gear".

[Tipi Walter]

It must be remembered that her first attempt in 1955 from Maine ended quickly after she broke her glasses and so she returned home to retry in 1957---successfully. So, gear is vital, i.e. glasses. Her diet consisted mostly of dried beef, cheese and nuts. No stove. And wild edibles.

Plus, did she pull her hikes in January/February? Doubt it. So, no need for winter gear. A blanket wouldn't cut it in winter. Also, since she resupplies often like all other future AT hikers, she didn't have to haul 40 lbs of food for a 20 day stretch w/o resupply.

[Cookerhiker]

"We worry to much about gear.... "Yes, I agree.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that this year's threads of hikers (mostly thrus) announcing their gear list and requesting comments is at an all-time high?

[Tipi Walter]

"We worry to much about gear.... "

Yes, I agree.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that this year's threads of hikers (mostly thrus) announcing their gear list and requesting comments is at an all-time high?


I never can understand why people post their gear lists and ask for comments. To me it's like asking "What's the best toilet paper for wiping??" It's personal and just find what works, period. No one outside of the person hiking needs to know or care what he is hauling.

Want to take the two volume book set on linguistics? Go for it. Want to take canned food? Fine with me. How about a whole watermelon? Why not? An 10 lb iron pry bar for a hiking pole? Sure, awesome. Banana sack speedo? Feel free. Cast iron dutch oven? If it works who's complaining?

[Odd Man Out]

Please review my gear list for this summer's exploration of the the Sierra Mountains:
I will throw some tea and bread into an old sack.

Thanks

John Muir

[Spirit Walker]

I agree with the basic premise, since I was one who had all the wrong gear, and yet had a great first thruhike.

OTOH, I sort of understand the obsession with gear, though I am far from a gearhead. It is one aspect of thruhiking that hikers have real control over before they start their hike. They don't know what kind of weather they'll have to deal with, or how hard the hike will be, or whether their bodies or minds will be able to handle a thruhike. All those things are uncontrollable and unknowable. Getting a good pack or sleeping bag or shoes - that is something they can learn about ahead of time and have some control over. There is a hope that perfect gear will mean an easy hike. It isn't that simple, of course, but new hikers don't know that. It would be more helpful if they actually got out and hiked, got into shape and got experience with camping, but it's easier to sit at a computer and discuss the perfect weight for your big four. Add to that the fanaticism of some ultra-light hikers, who tell newbies that if they are carrying too much weight, they'll never finish the trail. Reality is, it's what's in your head, not your pack that determines whether or not you'll finish. But gear is easier to predict.

[Tipi Walter]

Please review my gear list for this summer's exploration of the the Sierra Mountains:
I will throw some tea and bread into an old sack.

Thanks

John Muir

Excellent gear list. He left out a few important items, like a big old full length wool coat he wore to stay warm, etc.


I agree with the basic premise, since I was one who had all the wrong gear, and yet had a great first thruhike.

OTOH, I sort of understand the obsession with gear, though I am far from a gearhead. It is one aspect of thruhiking that hikers have real control over before they start their hike. They don't know what kind of weather they'll have to deal with, or how hard the hike will be, or whether their bodies or minds will be able to handle a thruhike. All those things are uncontrollable and unknowable. Getting a good pack or sleeping bag or shoes - that is something they can learn about ahead of time and have some control over. There is a hope that perfect gear will mean an easy hike. It isn't that simple, of course, but new hikers don't know that. It would be more helpful if they actually got out and hiked, got into shape and got experience with camping, but it's easier to sit at a computer and discuss the perfect weight for your big four. Add to that the fanaticism of some ultra-light hikers, who tell newbies that if they are carrying too much weight, they'll never finish the trail. Reality is, it's what's in your head, not your pack that determines whether or not you'll finish. But gear is easier to predict.

A reasoned response.

[swjohnsey]

Grandma Gatewood was the first ultra-lite hiker.

[Mags]

I've always said while gear is important, it is the least important part of hiking.

I think so many people talk about gear because it is tangible and concrete. Much easier to talk about your new tent or sleeping bag than the sunrise you saw from your sleeping bag.

As Ginny said, it is also something people CAN talk about. Days of hiking in the rain, resupply, bears, plagues of locust...all unknown. But they CAN discuss the Ti cup. :)

Also, and this is just a theory, buying and discussing gear is way to participate int the experience without having necessarily done the experience. Not everyone can climb, ski, bike and hike as much as they like (myself included!), but you can buy that new climbing harness, get the latest A/T bindings, purchase a new carbon bike frame and get ghe latest down quilt. No surprise that people on a high powered career path have the least time, but seemingly have the "best" gear. :)

In other words, by purchasing a stove, you are part of the group that is about the outdoors. You are an outdoors person by owning the sanctioned equipment.

Call it "gear as lifestyle".



It is what REI (and EMS, and Patagonia and whoever) sells....not gear but a lifestyle.

And by purchasing and discussing the gear, it is a way to live part of that lifestyle.


How about a whole watermelon?

http://pmags2.jzapin.com/gallery2/d/2270-2/affWTRMLNK_001.JPG

[Marta]

I agree with the basic premise, since I was one who had all the wrong gear, and yet had a great first thruhike.

OTOH, I sort of understand the obsession with gear, though I am far from a gearhead. It is one aspect of thruhiking that hikers have real control over before they start their hike. They don't know what kind of weather they'll have to deal with, or how hard the hike will be, or whether their bodies or minds will be able to handle a thruhike. All those things are uncontrollable and unknowable. Getting a good pack or sleeping bag or shoes - that is something they can learn about ahead of time and have some control over. There is a hope that perfect gear will mean an easy hike. It isn't that simple, of course, but new hikers don't know that. It would be more helpful if they actually got out and hiked, got into shape and got experience with camping, but it's easier to sit at a computer and discuss the perfect weight for your big four. Add to that the fanaticism of some ultra-light hikers, who tell newbies that if they are carrying too much weight, they'll never finish the trail. Reality is, it's what's in your head, not your pack that determines whether or not you'll finish. But gear is easier to predict.

Exactly!

The point novice aspirants seem to resist, which makes it all the more important to state it strongly and often, is that they need to practice with the gear and their bodies and minds ahead of time. Why can one person do fine with a knife and loincloth, while another is calling for rescue with a pack full of the latest and greatest? Experience.

Start easy, with short trips in good weather, work up as you learn. Experience--accept no substitute.

[msupple]

I never can understand why people post their gear lists and ask for comments. To me it's like asking "What's the best toilet paper for wiping??" It's personal and just find what works, period. No one outside of the person hiking needs to know or care what he is hauling.

Want to take the two volume book set on linguistics? Go for it. Want to take canned food? Fine with me. How about a whole watermelon? Why not? An 10 lb iron pry bar for a hiking pole? Sure, awesome. Banana sack speedo? Feel free. Cast iron dutch oven? If it works who's complaining?

I was with you....then you just HAD to mention the speedo....

[capehiker]

I'm taking her picture wwith me next year on my thru.


How much will that weigh? :)

[Parkie Man]

at least its weight in gold

[Namtrag]

It must be remembered that her first attempt in 1955 from Maine ended quickly after she broke her glasses and so she returned home to retry in 1957---successfully. So, gear is vital, i.e. glasses. Her diet consisted mostly of dried beef, cheese and nuts. No stove. And wild edibles.



She was the original Paleo backpacker then! Who needs carbs? :)

[Kookork]

We can drive our car from Georgia to Maine by an old rundown car which has no amenities of today's modern car and reach the destination and we can drive the same road by a modern fully equipped car with air condition and whole the nine yards and reach to destination.In both case we are the driver and they both take us from A to B but the experience is not quite the same.

Same goes for gear, the experience is not quite the same with appropriate and inappropriate gear. Appropriate gear just makes the experience more enjoyable but we are the one that walk from A to B.

[Therunner1Guy]

The level of enjoyment is kind of a personal thing too. Where one person may love a hot meal and smart phone another gets the same level of enjoyment from roughing it a bit. Nobody likes being dangerously unprepared, but some of us like it a more on the basic side. Nobody is right or wrong, just different tastes.

[Tipi Walter]

http://pmags2.jzapin.com/gallery2/d/2270-2/affWTRMLNK_001.JPG

You belong to a select club of Melon Humpers. My first watermelon was back in '84 into the Pisgah NF along Upper Creek but sadly I have no pics of the event. Then last year my buddy brought a "small" watermelon into the Bald River wilderness and surprised me with fruit.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-mt5txvC/0/L/TRIP%20136%20403-L.jpg
Patman along Bald River with his surprise melon.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-nBBvwFp/0/L/TRIP%20136%20408-L.jpg
How It Was Humped, a pictorial how-to guide for Newbs.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-65wmjnq/0/L/TRIP%20136%20404-L.jpg
I loft the Holy Fruit before consumption.

[Mountain Mike]

Gear is no substitute for experience. Not to long ago someone posted a link about a hiker whining & swearing because his fuel bottle dropped out of his pack. "he had no way to cook or heat anything up!" I guess he never heard of a fire. People have been hiking the AT long before UL became the rage. Has the completion rate really changed that much? It's more what is inside your head than on your back that leads to a successful hike.

[4shot]

It's more what is inside your head than on your back that leads to a successful hike.

this is true. what's also true is that you don't know this unfortunately until after you have thru hiked.

on a side note, I have done may thing and have alas been called many things along the way....however I have never been accused of being a melon humper. I am quite proud of this actually.

[prain4u]

Many good comments on this thread, thus far. And, while I agree (in general) with most of the comments that have been made, I don't think that we should totally downplay the importance of "gear" and "gear talk". Gear choices can--and DO--make a difference--both in terms of comfort and in terms of "safety".

Talking about gear is a good way to learn from other people. It is not possible--nor is it practical--for ONE hiker to know and "test drive" all pieces of gear which exist in the world. Thus, it is good to talk to other hikers and to learn from their gear experiences. "Gear talk" has helped me to learn about companies---and/or products--that I didn't even know existed.

One of the problems that I see, is that people purchase a bunch of (usually) expensive gear--THEN they post their gear list on WhiteBlaze--and ask "What do you think?". In my opinion, they probably should have asked that question of the WhiteBlaze members--PRIOR to purchasing a $350 sleeping bag or a $400 tent or $250 pack. What is the point of seeking the advice of other hikers AFTER you have purchased a bunch of gear?

A second problem (in my opinion) is people who readily admit that they have little (or no) hiking experience--who post their gear list on WhiteBlaze and request feedback. Then, they proceed to ARGUE with the people who provide them with feedback. Personally, I really don't care what someone carries in their pack (or on their person). HYOH. HOWEVER, if you request feedback--please don't argue with the people providing you with the feedback.

Final note: When Grandma Gatewood did her first thru hike. There were very few gear choices available and very few fellow hikers and thru hikers to talk to about gear--and definitely no internet or WhiteBlaze. Who knows what Grandma Gatewoold would make today.

[MuddyWaters]

People concern themselves with gear today, because there is gear light enough to carry.

In the early days of the AT, there wasnt. So you didnt.

The early thru hikers only carried 20-30 lbs. That was minimal gear because the little they did carry was still heavy.

They didnt carry 40 lbs


They carried 20-30 lbs, same as many today, but actually took a lot less stuff.
Slept on boughs, under ponchos, wool blankets, cooked over wood fire
Not acceptable LNT today

It took Earl Schaffer only a couple of weeks to get rid of his tent, and just use his poncho.


See my signature line below.

[shakey_snake]

Some people like gear.

[Tuckahoe]

I enjoy reading about, the opinions of others and gear reviews. Love looking at website, catalogs, and advertising. And who doesnt enjoy gear shopping. Gear talk is just an enjoyable way to pass the time off the trail. On the trail, who cares? You're on the trail and you now have to live with what you brought.

Funny thing is, the four of us that hike together, we've never talked about gear on a hike.

[rocketsocks]

Why do I need a tent when I can just throw on my poncho and lean up against an old tree and fall asleep. Why would I want to bring a homemade alcohol stove and fuel when I can just eat bagels, jerked meat and GORP. Why why why?...cause it's fun! Not necessary, but fun. My new tent will allow me to actually sit up, light a candle, and read a book and not have my head jammed into the rain fly causing a stiff neck the next morning. My new sleeping bag rated for 32*-40* will keep me more comfortable at higher temps where my 15* bag would not be appropriate at higher temps. There are times when i'd want to just stuff a loaf of bread in an old sack, a pond of tea and jump over the back fence....these I call...Day Hikes, and they are quite coveted to me. YMMV :)

[Kookork]

Many good comments on this thread, thus far. And, while I agree (in general) with most of the comments that have been made, I don't think that we should totally downplay the importance of "gear" and "gear talk". Gear choices can--and DO--make a difference--both in terms of comfort and in terms of "safety".

Talking about gear is a good way to learn from other people. It is not possible--nor is it practical--for ONE hiker to know and "test drive" all pieces of gear which exist in the world. Thus, it is good to talk to other hikers and to learn from their gear experiences. "Gear talk" has helped me to learn about companies---and/or products--that I didn't even know existed.

One of the problems that I see, is that people purchase a bunch of (usually) expensive gear--THEN they post their gear list on WhiteBlaze--and ask "What do you think?". In my opinion, they probably should have asked that question of the WhiteBlaze members--PRIOR to purchasing a $350 sleeping bag or a $400 tent or $250 pack. What is the point of seeking the advice of other hikers AFTER you have purchased a bunch of gear?

A second problem (in my opinion) is people who readily admit that they have little (or no) hiking experience--who post their gear list on WhiteBlaze and request feedback. Then, they proceed to ARGUE with the people who provide them with feedback. Personally, I really don't care what someone carries in their pack (or on their person). HYOH. HOWEVER, if you request feedback--please don't argue with the people providing you with the feedback.

Final note: When Grandma Gatewood did her first thru hike. There were very few gear choices available and very few fellow hikers and thru hikers to talk to about gear--and definitely no internet or WhiteBlaze. Who knows what Grandma Gatewoold would make today.
A beautiful piece of wisdom right here. Couldn't say it better.

[SwissGuy]

Swapping talk about gear is something literally every single profession, hobby, or pastime does. Ball players go for hours about a glove or the weight of a bat, Fencers about grip and blade flexibility, carpenters about rasps and awls and files, Soldiers about Rucks and boots and weaponry. Yes, going out and actually playing ball/fencing/making a table is better practice than gear talk, but every single thing human beings do requires gear, and guess what, people like to talk about it. Thinking that this is somehow abnormal or a problem is, well, strange. No offense to the purists, but the whole idea that these young whipper-snappers are any more gear obsessed than anyone else or any generation ever is just front-porch "damn kids" banter. I'm sure that the roman legion had many a conversation about what brand of gladius was the most effective and who made the best.

Not everyone is John Miur, hell, most everyone I meet who espouses the "grab a bunch of things and go and see what happens" philosophy over a beer, goes hiking once a year and has 2k worth of ultralight hi-tech gear to do a 20mi yo-yo. That is hyperbole, by the way, but you get the point.

[Cookerhiker]

this is true. what's also true is that you don't know this unfortunately until after you have thru hiked....

You don't have to experience "thru" hiking to know what gear is necessary and effective nor to appreciate the mental aspect of hiking.

[Parkie Man]

I guess I should explain why I started this thread in the first place.. It is simply more of a decleration of who I find inspiration from. That I can do this too. That all the skeptics out here, and usually its family, are wrong. That even battling PD for 3 years....I can do this. Because If Grandma can make it...then I can too.

Dean

[swjohnsey]

People concern themselves with gear today, because there is gear light enough to carry.

In the early days of the AT, there wasnt. So you didnt.

The early thru hikers only carried 20-30 lbs. That was minimal gear because the little they did carry was still heavy.

They didnt carry 40 lbs


They carried 20-30 lbs, same as many today, but actually took a lot less stuff.
Slept on boughs, under ponchos, wool blankets, cooked over wood fire
Not acceptable LNT today

It took Earl Schaffer only a couple of weeks to get rid of his tent, and just use his poncho.


See my signature line below.

I believe Schaffer and Espey were carrying around 45 pounds. Schaffer didn't have a tent or sleeping bag but he had two fairly large cameras. Grandma Gatewood had a lot of local support.

Light weight modern gear makes life easier.

[Mags]

Many good comments on this thread, thus far. And, while I agree (in general) with most of the comments that have been made, I don't think that we should totally downplay the importance of "gear" and "gear talk". Gear choices can--and DO--make a difference--both in terms of comfort and in terms of "safety".



Generally, the less experienced you are the more obsessed you are with gear.

I always give the following anecdote.

My late Grandmother was an amazing cook and baker. The humble dishes she cooked are now considered gourmet fare at restaurants that charge $40 a plate for what can be made for a few dollars. A few eggs, some veggies and olive oil was the basis of a comfort food called frittta growing up. Now it is something so called-foodies salivate over at, again, at very expensive restaurants selling "authentic rustic cuisine" paired with free-trade coffee. And don't get me started on places that sell zucchini flowers on the menu...


The same people who go to the above places obsess over the correct knife and copper bottom pots for their home kitchen. They want to get just the right size and shape to make food.

They pour over the ingredients list, make sure the recipe is followed to a "T" that some celebrity chef had ghost written for them (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrewfriedman/cookbook-ghostwriters-new-york-times_b_1368018.html) . Discuss dining like it something of a status symbol rather than the celebration and shared experience that any good meal should be.

Grandma? I know she had her favorite knife. Her favorite skillet. And her favorite cutting board. As a person who (I'd like to think) inherited some of her skills in the kitchen, I do too.

But I never though to ask her what knife or pot she used. :) Nor did she spend hours around the kitchen table discussing them.

She just cooked. And baked. And made meals that resonate with me (http://www.saveur.com/article/Menu/A-Feast-of-Seven-Fishes) in some cases decades after I last had them.

In the same way, people who are new to the outdoors may be inclined to discuss packs, and water filters and sleeping bags in detail.

But when you have more experiences the sunset seems more important. The sound of a brook in the woods is more memorable. And that last push to the summit resonates more.


S No offense to the purists, but the whole idea that these young whipper-snappers are any more gear obsessed than anyone else or any generation ever is just front-porch "damn kids" banter.

If anything, it is an older and more established person phenomenon. The middle aged family person who has money, but not not time. Easier to acquire gear and talk about it. Time to backpack, ski, mountain bike etc is in short demand. By purchasing and discussing gear, it is way to be part of the life style. The twenty-five year old thru-hiker who has done the AT already is probably not obsessed. The 25 yo on a career fast track and is working 50+ hour weeks at his accounting job wants to talk about gear non-stop. :)


Is gear talk not needed? Of course not.

But it seems more important than it warrants IMO.

The main 'criticism' of our silly little podcast (http://thetrailshow.com/)is that people wished we discussed gear more. :)

[Cookerhiker]

Generally, the less experienced you are the more obsessed you are with gear.... :)

Your example of your grandmother's kitchen applies to me. When I first took up cooking in the early 80s, I obsessed over the precise elements and quantities in the recipes and over the exact types of implements. Fortunately, I moved on quickly enough so that nowadays when asked for recipes, I'm very inexact - "pinch of this, handful of that..." And nowadays we have that "perfect" role model to follow in Martha Stewart LOL; at least there's no equivalent to her for backpacking gear and techniques.

I'm not sure though that we can generalize about backpacking gear hangups vis-a-vis age levels and/or experience. It's more likely related to personality. - how adaptable/flexible are you, fear of the unknown, need for control, risk taking, comfort levels etc.

[Marta]

The truly equipment-obsessed gravitate towards cycling... :-)

[yaduck9]

I guess I should explain why I started this thread in the first place.. It is simply more of a decleration of who I find inspiration from. That I can do this too. That all the skeptics out here, and usually its family, are wrong. That even battling PD for 3 years....I can do this. Because If Grandma can make it...then I can too.

Dean


Grandma had the big advantage of living in an age where there were a lot less people on the planet, and there was no social media......

[SwissGuy]

Generally, the less experienced you are the more obsessed you are with gear. [...]. But it seems more important than it warrants IMO.

Well, I don't outright disagree with you. And the point that Discussing gear as a way to take part in the hobby without actually going on a hike is a very well put point.

So, in the Army we had this specific brand of soldier we label the "geardo", who is often both a "geardo" and a "fobbit". A Geardo is someone who spends a large percentage of his pay ordering the latest and greatest military accessory, usually something that has no real use in their job. A Fobbit is a soldier who rarely or never leaves the FOB (forward operating base), meaning they don't actually engage in combat activities. Basically the people who actually needed specialized gear of course had it, and used it.

So, discussing combat gear among other combat soldiers is something that happened regularly, we were all looking for different ways to make our job more comfortable or be more effective. But, walking into a conversation about gear with geardos or fobbits was basically just giving them a scornful look and moving on. I guess with hikers this mentality is similar, we are all about talking about gear with people who are accomplished outdoorsmen and generally exude legitimacy, and are slightly annoyed when discussing it with someone who is a newer outdoorsman because it is assumed that they don't have the experience needed to actually evaluate a piece of gear. So, boiling it down, it is not a question of discussion of gear or not, it's a question of if those discussing it have the experience needed to evaluate it, which is of course a very hard call to make on an internet forum. I don't mind launching forth on a wide and broad dissertation on gear with a new hiker, I love new hikers, and I hope they find as much fun in the outdoors as I have. Sure, one must indulge their naivety, but at the end of the day, we were all once new hikers.

I don't have a major point, I guess I just think gear discussion among new hikers shows their enthusiasm for the hobby, and should be indulged rather than scornfully dismissed.

As to OP's post, Grandma was certainly a badass, and good on you for drawing inspiration from her.

[Mags]

I don't have a major point, I guess I just think gear discussion among new hikers shows their enthusiasm for the hobby, and should be indulged rather than scornfully dismissed.



Where's the scorn when I just launched a discussion about fleece? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?94266-Fleece-Reconsidered) :)

Safe to say, many of us gladly help out people new to backpacking and even some gear discussion (http://www.pmags.com/topics/getting-started).

However, I'll stand my original assertion: Gear is important but it is the LEAST important part of backpacking. It is discussed far more than its importance for various reasons discussed.

[SwissGuy]

Where's the scorn when I just launched a discussion about fleece? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?94266-Fleece-Reconsidered) :)

Safe to say, many of us gladly help out people new to backpacking and even some gear discussion (http://www.pmags.com/topics/getting-started).

However, I'll stand my original assertion: Gear is important but it is the LEAST important part of backpacking. It is discussed fare more than its importance for various reasons discussed.

Oh, not pointing out any scorn on your behalf, or generally at anyone in particular! ;) Sorry that I didn't make that more clear. It's just a common reaction I've noted among some (but no-where near a majority) of accomplished hikers/outdoorsmen. And you are not wrong, gear is the least important part of the hike, the efficient use of that gear is of far, far more importance. A tool is useless without the knowledge to use it effectively. And that knowledge is of course only acquired by getting off the internet and going inna'woods.

However, I don't think the strict minimalist approach that is often espoused as "more pure" has any more validity than any other method of hiking. It isn't the gear or lack thereof, it's the person carrying it and how they interact and experience the wild that they are walking through. Your grandmother was I am certain a great cook with simple tools, but does that make the person who is a great cook with advanced tools any less a great cook?

[MDSection12]

This debate reminds me of one I'm familiar with from guitar; the notion that 'tone is in the fingers.' People will often say that it doesn't matter what gear you use, you will sound like you because of your technique. That's not true at all with guitar. Technique can't make an unplugged electric guitar loud and it can't make a clean signal distort... However in this case technique is more important than gear. With the correct technique it is possible to go backpacking with almost nothing. I can't think of a single piece of gear that is completely necessary for wilderness survival, given the right skill set...

That said, the skills it requires to replace a knife, fire starting device, sleeping bag, shelter, etc. are very esoteric and even well seasoned backpackers often don't posess them.

[Mags]

, but does that make the person who is a great cook with advanced tools any less a great cook?

Find me a great cook with lots of gear he uses and I'll show you a guy with a commercial contract and sponsorships. :)

But in any case, when did anyone espouse a "less is more" philosophy or somehow something is more "pure"?


As TW said, take whatever you..what do we care? :)

In the same way, talk about your gear all you want. But it really is the least important part no matter how a person talks it up ;)

[10-K]

It must be remembered that her first attempt in 1955 from Maine ended quickly after she broke her glasses and so she returned home to retry in 1957---successfully. So, gear is vital, i.e. glasses. Her diet consisted mostly of dried beef, cheese and nuts. No stove. And wild edibles.

Plus, did she pull her hikes in January/February? Doubt it. So, no need for winter gear. A blanket wouldn't cut it in winter. Also, since she resupplies often like all other future AT hikers, she didn't have to haul 40 lbs of food for a 20 day stretch w/o resupply.

Right.. she was hiking the AT. She probably didn't take a canoe or bicycle either... :)

[Mags]

And, finally, some humor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3SFqV0hMyo

[Marta]

And, finally, some humor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3SFqV0hMyo

Perfect!!!!

This brings to mind a discussion I had with someone the other day. His wife is pregnant. They plan to buy a bigger car and either completely redo their existing house or buy a larger one. Seriously...an eight-pound baby does not take up that much space.

[SwissGuy]

Perfect!!!!

This brings to mind a discussion I had with someone the other day. His wife is pregnant. They plan to buy a bigger car and either completely redo their existing house or buy a larger one. Seriously...an eight-pound baby does not take up that much space.

Even less with a decent compression sack.

[Marta]

Even less with a decent compression sack.


Lol. The baby is just escaping a compression sack.

[capehiker]

Even less with a decent compression sack.

Lol. Awesome!

[perdidochas]

Perfect!!!!

This brings to mind a discussion I had with someone the other day. His wife is pregnant. They plan to buy a bigger car and either completely redo their existing house or buy a larger one. Seriously...an eight-pound baby does not take up that much space.

Your results may vary, but the 1600 sq ft starter home I bought proved to be a lot smaller after the first baby. Didn't sell/redo the house, but it wasn't nearly as spacious as it was before.

[Another Kevin]

However, I'll stand my original assertion: Gear is important but it is the LEAST important part of backpacking. It is discussed far more than its importance for various reasons discussed.

It's hard to discuss technique very much. You learn it by doing.

It's hard to discuss conditioning very much. It's critical, but you get it by getting out there and doing stuff.

And hardest of all, and most important, is spirit. Which, as far as I can tell, comes unlooked-for when it comes and eludes when it is sought.

So people talk about gear, because it's one of the things that can actually be talked about.

[Malto]

It's hard to discuss technique very much. You learn it by doing.

It's hard to discuss conditioning very much. It's critical, but you get it by getting out there and doing stuff.

And hardest of all, and most important, is spirit. Which, as far as I can tell, comes unlooked-for when it comes and eludes when it is sought.

So people talk about gear, because it's one of the things that can actually be talked about.

i agree with this and will add that buying the latest gismo is easier than getting in shape or getting experience which are likely the best indicators of success on a thru, not gear alone.

[Crusinsusan]

Back to the OP's post: I read about her a while ago....berries and all....only seeing one other person on the trek...27 grandchildren (another good reason to get away!).

She rocks and is an inspiration. Wish I was as brave just to carry a shower curtain and a few other items. She was written up in Sports Illustrated in 1955.

Very cool.

[shelb]

Many good comments on this thread, thus far. And, while I agree (in general) with most of the comments that have been made, I don't think that we should totally downplay the importance of "gear" and "gear talk". Gear choices can--and DO--make a difference--both in terms of comfort and in terms of "safety".

Talking about gear is a good way to learn from other people. It is not possible--nor is it practical--for ONE hiker to know and "test drive" all pieces of gear which exist in the world. Thus, it is good to talk to other hikers and to learn from their gear experiences. "Gear talk" has helped me to learn about companies---and/or products--that I didn't even know existed.

One of the problems that I see, is that people purchase a bunch of (usually) expensive gear--THEN they post their gear list on WhiteBlaze--and ask "What do you think?". In my opinion, they probably should have asked that question of the WhiteBlaze members--PRIOR to purchasing a $350 sleeping bag or a $400 tent or $250 pack. What is the point of seeking the advice of other hikers AFTER you have purchased a bunch of gear?

A second problem (in my opinion) is people who readily admit that they have little (or no) hiking experience--who post their gear list on WhiteBlaze and request feedback. Then, they proceed to ARGUE with the people who provide them with feedback. Personally, I really don't care what someone carries in their pack (or on their person). HYOH. HOWEVER, if you request feedback--please don't argue with the people providing you with the feedback.

Final note: When Grandma Gatewood did her first thru hike. There were very few gear choices available and very few fellow hikers and thru hikers to talk to about gear--and definitely no internet or WhiteBlaze. Who knows what Grandma Gatewoold would make today.

Only thing I might add is the problem with some people's perception of "entitlement."
From difficulty in persevering, to problems living up to what is socially acceptable, to being respectful of those around you, this is a major problem today!

[Marta]

Your results may vary, but the 1600 sq ft starter home I bought proved to be a lot smaller after the first baby. Didn't sell/redo the house, but it wasn't nearly as spacious as it was before.

True, but when the kids got on my nerves, I sent them to play outside. :-)

[MuddyWaters]

Earl Shaffer's Advice for Long Distance Hikers on the Appalachian Trail, circa 1950

Good planning, a sturdy physique, exceptional determination, and ingenious adaptability are essential on a long and strenuous foot journey. Most attempts to travel end to end on the Appalachian Trail fail within two hundred miles. Above all, do not underestimate the difficulties involved or overestimate your own capabilities. Both good luck and good management are necessary. Preliminary experience on shorter trips is very helpful. The weight and bulk of the packload should be kept to a minimum, yet the necessary equipment must be carried. The pack should be rigged low so the weight rests mostly on the hips and is kept as near the body as possible, to reduce the backwards pull. Food supplies should be as free of cans as possible to reduce weight, yet maximum nourishment is absolutely essential.
There should be no exact day-by-day schedule set in advance. Conditions of weather and terrain prevent this. But a steady pace, if persistently followed, will result in a good daily average. Don't expect a picnic stroll. Mountain hiking is hard work.
EQUIPMENT: total weight approximately twenty pounds.



Framepack--Mountain troop or similar, with large pocket removed.
Poncho--serves as raincoat, parka, groundcloth, shelter cloth, etc.
Rainhat--indispensable because of variable weather.
Sheath knife--small size. Pocket knife as auxiliary.
Small axe--necessary for maintaining campfire in rainy weather.
Compass, waterproof matchsafe, snakebite kit-just in case.
Cook kit--Mountain troop or similar (two nested kettles and frypan)
Sleeping bag--blanket type (April-October), down or kapok in winter.
Extra set of clothing--for added warmth, rather than heavy underwear, and as a dry change after a rainy day.
Socks--(heavy) reinforced wool or spun nylon.
Canteen--flat, one quart, slung to side of pack.
First aid kit--include foot powder such as quinsana, insect repellent.
Headnet, flashlight, plastic food bags.

FOOD: Recommended staples: cornmeal, oatmeal, flour, brown sugar, salt, raisins, potatoes, powdered milk, rice, dried meats, dried fruits, dehydrated vegetables (if available). Diet can be varied by immediate consumption when visiting stores.



I read Earls gear was 16lbs when he hiked the first time.
His gear list:

Mountain Troop Ruck Sack (a framepack)
Marine Corp poncho
rainhat
"paper mill" blanket
Marble Company match safe, compass, sheath knife
sewing kit
snakebite kit
toothbrush (minus handle)
razor
potato sack
Mountain Troop cook kit
spoon
pencils
pocket knife
Army can opener
twine
spatula
Little black notebook
Retina camera and case with neck strap
color film
roadmap
Great Smoky Park map, other road maps, postcards
flashlight
comb
Quinsana footpowder
Food for a week- canned milk, tea, oatmeal, cornmeal, canned Vienna sausage,
cheese, bread, brown sugar
Clothing-T shirts, Navy turtleneck, Mountain Cloth pants, wool-cotton socks, Birdshooter boots with the heels shaved off

[swjohnsey]

My guess is that weeks worth of food weighed more than 20 lbs. Shaffer carried two cameras 'til one was stolen.

[prain4u]

Generally, the less experienced you are the more obsessed you are with gear.

Mags: I see your point. I understand what you were trying to say. I simply beg to differ.

There are plenty of experienced hikers who are also gear junkies. The same is true in many other professions, endeavors and hobbies. There are "gear junkies" in every field--and some of them are very accomplished, very experienced, and very skilled at what they do.

To use your analogy regarding cooking. Sure, most great cooks CAN cook great food with limited and very basic "gear". HOWEVER, there are also plenty of great cooks who are constantly buying new stuff, upgrading gear and remodeling their kitchen. The cooking "gear" industry is a multi-billion dollar business

Racing car teams, top level golfers, pro fishermen, electronics fans--even world-class swimmers--are constantly trying to upgrade their gear and clothing. (Who would think that people are constantly working hard to improve things as simple as THE SWIMSUIT--or the tennis racket,or the golf club?). Tiger Woods is a great golfer--but give him the same golf clubs and golf balls that golfers used 50 years ago--he would not win modern tournaments. Put the 2012 Olympic swimming medalists in the suits from the 1972 Olympics--and their times will be slower. Why would hiking be any different. In the past 40 years, there have been many advances in outdoor gear which make modern hiking lighter, safer, and more comfortable. Why not use the modern gear--and why not talk about it--especially before you go out ans spend big bucks to buy it?

I don't live near the Rocky Mountains--nor do I near the AT. In West Central Illinois, there are no high quality outfitters or gear stores nearby. Even the closest REI is nearly a 500 mile roundtrip. Major hiking trails--or significant hiking clubs/communities--are located even farther away. I can't take weekend trips to major trails where I will have the chance to see other hikers or their gear--because it will take most of my weekend just to drive to/from the trail. Thus, if I am looking to replace (or upgrade) a piece of gear, I NEED to go to the internet if I am going to learn of the latest gear choices which are available-or if I am going to hear some other people express how they liked/disliked a certain piece of gear.

I think many other hikers are in a similar situation. Some of us are pretty isolated from other hikers (and we reside far away from places were quality hiking gear is used or sold). Thus, we need to use things like the internet in order to be in contact with other hikers and to keep up-to-date on the ever-changing gear options.

It is not a matter of experience or inexperience--it s often just a matter of geography and/or some people's natural tendency to be "gear junkies" in fields which greatly interest them.

[Mags]

Prain4u, you are missing my entire point.

I'll sum it up for you and others again:

Gear is important, but it is the least important part of backpacking. Discussed a lot for various reasons.

I mean, how many ways can you discuss the same canister stove that is more or less the same as other canister stoves? :)


The fact that you wrote a multi-parapraph e-mail espousing the importance of gear just kinda strikes the point home.

Thanks. :)

[MuddyWaters]

I wish I didnt have to carry any gear at all.
But since I do, all I really care about is that it does its function reasonably well, and is light as possible.

[Mountain Mike]

I am kinda a gear junkie , & nobody wants to carry more weight than they have to. I have several sleeping bags & several tents. It's my experience that lets me choose that will work best for what ever trip I go on. Experience that tells me when I can push it & when to hold back. Even if you have all the latest UL gear you can still slip on a wet root & tear up a ligament. The most import thing on any trip is inside your head.

What I dislike is reliance on electronics for navigation & rescue. I believe you should be able to navigate with a map & compass before you venture to far into a remote area. Granted AT is never really this, but not knowing bail out points can be hazardous. If you rely on a cell phone or Spot beacon when you get in trouble you are potentially putting others at risk!

It amazes me how many times I have seen hikers on the trail having to read instructions on how to use a stove, or set up their tent. Before setting foot on the trail it should be familiar if not instinct. Practice where no storm is threatening. Good gear make our hikes easier & more enjoyable, but it has to be the right gear that works for you in the conditions. I might be warm & toasty in a 20 degree bag where guy next to me may be shivering. How do you know without practice & experience?

[kayak karl]

i bet this discussion never comes up on a Skydiving forum:rolleyes:

[levibarry]

Gear isn't the most important as has been posted by 10-K and others.
What is important is what sits between our ears and the decisions we
make on what to carry or not to carry.