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Nearly Normal
07-07-2005, 05:58
I've yet to read where the hiking experience was elevated by finding mice in the shelters. People seem to agree they are pest with little appeal.
Nothing could compete with the experience of a fast moving mouse followed by snake along the back wall of a shelter where your face is usually located.
Many post complain about mice and you even read where hikers seem to take pride in killing them. The Blue Mountain shelter even boast numbers slain, updated on the wall. Reports are, the hangers in the shelters nor even bear cables are very effective.
Most shelter reviews include facts about mice and this brings me to the point.

Various mice baits (Decon, Rat Rock) are designed for outdoor use but
I've never heard where a hiker claimed to have used this control in and/or around shelters.
Why not? :-?
pete

Nean
07-07-2005, 06:58
never thought of packin poison, but now that you mention it- I like it. If the ATC will cover my expenses, I'll put some in every shelter!

Two Speed
07-07-2005, 06:59
The main reason for not using poison to kill mice is there's no way to guarantee that only mice will eat it. Raccoon, possum and other small animals may eat the poison.

Short version: If you really, really object to mice, don't sleep in the shelters. Unfortunately, they're part of the scene, along with snoring, farting, etc.

java
07-07-2005, 09:28
Most folks only stay in a shelter for one night. The poison baits may take longer to have an impact on the mouse population. Also, shelters are in the woods, pretty much an unlimited population of mice to move in when the others die off.
Hikers live in the present, so what happens after they leave is of little worry.

trippclark
07-07-2005, 10:06
Not sure if this is true, but it is plausible. I have been told that rat poisoning should not be used in shelters because the effect of the poison causes the mice to be thirsty -- so they go to the water source where they die. Dead mice in or very near the shelter water source would not be a good thing.

Tripp

Alligator
07-07-2005, 10:31
Seems like an egregious violation of LNT. "I think I'll leave a little unattended mice/rat poison out then head on up to the next shelter and leave some there too. Hope the other wildlife won't eat it and that the wind doesn't blow it around the shelter. La la la.":rolleyes:

Tin Man
07-07-2005, 10:35
Not sure if this is true, but it is plausible. I have been told that rat poisoning should not be used in shelters because the effect of the poison causes the mice to be thirsty -- so they go to the water source where they die. Dead mice in or very near the shelter water source would not be a good thing.

Tripp

Sounds right. When I poison the mole holes around my house, I find drowned moles in my pool a day or two later.

One way to deal with mice is to make peace with their leader. Ask him/her where to put your food to avoid pilfering in exchange for leaving them be. Mice in the shelters seem natural. Moles tearing up my yard is another matter - my next house will be a cabin or boat where nature can have its way. On the other hand...moles in my pool make my wife crazy...pass the mole poison please.

Red Hat
07-07-2005, 11:19
Although I started planning on using my tent most nights, I found the shelters to be much easier. My tent would be damp in the mornings, even when it did not rain. So I switched to using shelters almost every night. I tried to get an inside spot and slept with my head toward the open side. I never had any problems with mice! I made sure I ate outside the shelter and hung my pack. My food bag was bear bagged every night. I think the mouse problems are over rated.

Tin Man
07-07-2005, 11:58
Although I started planning on using my tent most nights, I found the shelters to be much easier. My tent would be damp in the mornings, even when it did not rain. So I switched to using shelters almost every night. I tried to get an inside spot and slept with my head toward the open side. I never had any problems with mice! I made sure I ate outside the shelter and hung my pack. My food bag was bear bagged every night. I think the mouse problems are over rated.

I agree, head toward the open side of shelter and bear bagging keeps the mice at bay. However, some shelters are overrun a bit (some with mice, and some with 2-legged vermin) and a tent can come in handy.

A-Train
07-07-2005, 13:35
It is more their home than ours. If they bother you that much, use a tent!

stupe
07-07-2005, 13:57
Kill all the mice you want, as long as you're going to eat them.

Footslogger
07-07-2005, 14:35
Yuk ...gag me with a spoon !!

'Slogger

dougmeredith
07-07-2005, 14:45
It is more their home than ours. If they bother you that much, use a tent!
I don't think that mice built the shelter.

Doug

Frosty
07-07-2005, 15:06
I don't think that mice built the shelter.

DougNeither did the thruhikers, I think A-Train meant the mice live there all the time, whereas hikers only one night, so the shelter is more their home than ours.

Footslogger
07-07-2005, 15:12
I don't think we're headed towards a WIN-WIN outcome here.

'Slogger

dougmeredith
07-07-2005, 15:31
Neither did the thruhikers, I think A-Train meant the mice live there all the time, whereas hikers only one night, so the shelter is more their home than ours.
At the risk of prolonging an old and tired argument (which I knowingly entered into - aren't I bright?), humans built the shelter not mice, so it is more our home than theirs.

But mice live in the woods and we don't so it is more their home than ours.

But we lived in the woods until we built cities, so... AHHHHHHHHHH!

Doug

Lone Wolf
07-07-2005, 15:38
Mice must die. They're vermin. So all you mice killers have at it!

Dances with Mice
07-07-2005, 15:44
At the risk of prolonging an old and tired argument (which I knowingly entered into - aren't I bright?), humans built the shelter not mice, so it is more our home than theirs.

But mice live in the woods and we don't so it is more their home than ours.
A contractor built my house, but it is not his home.

Purposefully leaving poison in the wilderness is not a good idea. Too much is already there by accident.

trippclark
07-07-2005, 15:50
Because of the above discussed problems with poison, I have never seriously taking poison with me. I have, however, seriously considered carrying mousetraps. I would imagine that hearing it SNAP would be a very fulfilling sound to hear :banana

Footslogger
07-07-2005, 15:53
Because of the above discussed problems with poison, I have never seriously taking poison with me. I have, however, seriously considered carrying mousetraps. I would imagine that hearing it SNAP would be a very fulfilling sound to hear :banana===================================
...but who would stay up all night emptying and rebaiting the traps??

'Slogger

trippclark
07-07-2005, 16:39
===================================
...but who would stay up all night emptying and rebaiting the traps??

'Slogger

Yeah, and besides, I ain't sharing my cheese or peanut butter willingly anyway! It is one thing when they steal it, quite another to give it to them . . . of course, on a trap it might be worth it!! :-?

A-Train
07-07-2005, 16:52
Who cares that humans built the shelters. They're in the woods, where mice and lots of other animals live. It''s kinda common sense and should be acknowledged and accepted when you head out backpacking that you are in someone elses territory (the other being animals). I really don't think putting poison or even traps is a great idea. The mice are only there because most likely previous hikers were careless with their food. Is that the mice fault? Trust me I don't love the buggers, but the simplest solution is to use a tent. Tents are a brilliant invention. It's just like when people complain about snorers in shelters. I just scratch my head and don't get it.

Tin Man
07-07-2005, 18:14
Let's face it, mice came 2 days after the shelter was built and will come back 2 days after the current population is cleared out. It is a no-win situation. So, if you want to hunt, then hunt. If you want to live and let live, then live and let live. As far as I am concerned, pass the scotch.

TwoForty
07-07-2005, 18:53
===================================
...but who would stay up all night emptying and rebaiting the traps??

'SloggerI met some thruhikers in the Smokies that said they had a contest in some of the mice infested shelters of GA. They each bought one mouse trap and had a great time with it. The winner got 10 one night, which sounds a bit extreme. I guess he told the story so many times that by the time he hit the smokies, it was 10 :jump

Ridge
07-07-2005, 19:08
My husband told me about someone taking his cat(probably started off as a kitten) on a thru-hike, carrying it in his pack while it slept during the day. At night the cat stood guard over the shelter catching many a vermon.

wolf
07-07-2005, 19:33
do not bring it on trail it will posion water that we drink!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lobo
07-07-2005, 19:47
A fellow thru-hiker killed 28 mice in two traps at Hightop Hut in SNP on April 25 2000 with two traps baited with peanut butter. He left his catch in a pile in the front of the shelter, and a section hiker going south buried each mouse under a rock. My friend would have killed more mice, but he ran out of peanut butter!

Kerosene
07-07-2005, 19:52
Speaking of peanut butter, if the mice are really bad and you're against trapping, consider placing a slug of peanut butter out back of the shelter. That will keep the mice busy for the night!

stupe
07-07-2005, 20:10
If you hate mice ( I suspect it's more fear than hate ) just stand on a chair and hold the hem of your skirt up so they can't reach it. Scream for help.

Lone Wolf
07-07-2005, 20:13
If you're stupid enough to stay in shelters and let mice crawl all over you, then you're just stupid.

stupe
07-07-2005, 21:12
And if you're stupe enough to stay in shelters and let mice crawl all over you, then you're just stupe!

Frosty
07-07-2005, 21:28
I don't think we're headed towards a WIN-WIN outcome here.Yeah, but what are the alternatives? We have threads about the politics of the AMC, Jardine vs Golite, and whether minnesotasmith should staple his mouth shut. This seems the least of all evils, and at least the mice have stayed out of it. So far.

Moxie00
07-07-2005, 22:01
:cool: I remember the last shelter northbound before Front Royal in 2000. Burley, Gnarley, Pat from Maine and I all arrived at the same time. There was a note in the log and a notice on the wall that a rattlesnake was living under the shelter and no on had been able to catch it. The general feeling among the group was a good feeling that if a rattlesnake under the shelter there would be no mice. We all stayed except Burley and Gnarley set up their tent in the shelter. I was very careful to use my headlamp when I got up to pee at night as I am sure Pat was. One fellow was afraid of Snakes and set up his tent about a million yards from the shelter. There were no mice that night so Mr Rattlesnake did his job well, much better than decon or a snap trap.:eek:

saimyoji
07-07-2005, 22:38
Kill all the mice you want, as long as you're going to eat them.
http://bertc.com/cooking_rats.htm

stupe
07-07-2005, 22:56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footslogger
I don't think we're headed towards a WIN-WIN outcome here.

Yeah, but what are the alternatives? We have threads about the politics of the AMC, Jardine vs Golite, and whether minnesotasmith should staple his mouth shut. This seems the least of all evils, and at least the mice have stayed out of it. So far.

I don't think anybody has to win, I just think everything should be aired. The AMC's politics are an issue, so is Jardine vs Golite. And stapling minnesotasmith's mouth shut sounds like a violation of his first amendment rights, and worthy of discussion.
Besides the limits put on members by the moderators and administrators, members should not :
1) Advocate the seditious overthrow of our government
2) Deliberately incite a riot
3) Shout "fire" in a crowded theatre
And that's about it.
I belong to three other forum sites, and they are all as flat as latex paint. One of them is an AT site ( guess which one ) where certain opinions are not tolerated. Even the Critical Mass site I belong to lacks the fire that Whiteblaze has, and there are actual anarchists on it.
Somehow, in this ( almost ) anything goes site called WhiteBlaze.net, you can get personal and fast answers to questions, the archives and articles provide top notch information, and everybody has lively discussion and nobody gets physically hurt. ( Probably because nobody knows where anybody else lives ) I think tolerance is what makes it one of the best sites on the web. I have been backpacking since I was a kid, and I still learn something new every week on this site.
The mice are in this, for better or worse. They chewed holes in my food bag once, they got in my backpack, they put nesting material in my boots, etc. I think they're cute, some don't. Some members think they should be killed, trapped, and poisoned, others feel strongly that this is unsportsmanlike, immoral, and sadistic. Talking about these issues make the world go round. Some members have a few too many beers and post provocative, cruel, or sarcastic remarks. Not me, of course, but some members do.
Thanks for the link, saimyoji. I like a nice red with my rat, or maybe a hearty Belgian beer.

saimyoji
07-07-2005, 23:02
...and whether minnesotasmith should staple his mouth shut...

I missed this one. What was the outcome?

cutman11
07-07-2005, 23:29
And while we are on the subject of Rat poison, a few medical facts about it....The most widely used poison, Warfarin Sodium, is actually an anti- clotting agent. When the Rats eat the stuff, their blood will not clot properly in the event of bleeding. The rats are constantly biting each other and bumping into things that cause small bleeding points, and then they basically bleed to death. The "poison" is also known by another name to humans, Coumadin, which is a commonly used anti clotting pill given to many people with clogged blood vessels to prevent them from clotting up and losing the blood supply to essential organs and extremities. Small amounts of the stuff in the water supply would not cause any real issue as the concentration ingested would be so dilute it would not cause you a problem. Now, if you eat a bottle of the stuff, thats different. So there you have it...Rat poison that humans put in a bottle and get from the Doctor for their ailing arteries. And thats the rest of the story, Paul Harvey, Goodnight.

Frosty
07-07-2005, 23:53
I missed this one. What was the outcome?Taken out of context. It referred to eating and not first amendment issues. I was just joking with Footslogger about some of the threads. To answer your question, there is a thread about whether or not someone should have some kind of surgical procedure done to lose weight in order to thruhike. The thread got kind of weird and currectly sits with Dr. Orangebud providing a referral to a psychiartist for all involved.

stupe
07-07-2005, 23:55
Small amounts of the stuff in the water supply would not cause any real issue as the concentration ingested would be so dilute it would not cause you a problem.

I bet the folks who poisoned the hills around Palmerton, Pennsylvania thought a little bit of zinc could'nt hurt anybody.

digger51
07-08-2005, 01:09
How about if we all carry a non lethal trap and gather the little critters up and as we pass Harpers Ferry get someone to carry them into DC? A few more vermin there wouldnt hurt much.

Heater
07-08-2005, 01:56
A contractor built my house, but it is not his home.

Purposefully leaving poison in the wilderness is not a good idea. Too much is already there by accident.
Oh, you are just saying that so you don't lose a dancing partner. :rolleyes:

kyhipo
07-08-2005, 08:48
when i was out west last yr they had them there prairie mice:bse ky ruthless

stupe
07-08-2005, 10:49
A bear has become an unwanted guest in one Croatian town after learning how to knock on the door to trick people into letting it in.
http://www.dehavilland.co.uk/webhost.asp?wci=default&wcp=EntertainmentStoryPage&ItemID=16111530&ServiceID=8&filterid=345221&searchid=234672&category=1

VAMTNHIKER
07-09-2005, 10:40
when i was out west last yr they had them there prairie mice:bse ky ruthless


In the mountains of New Mexico (Philmont) last year, the "mini"-bears were relentless!!!



----> chipmunks.... :banana