Mental illness on the AT. Hazardous to themselves and others?

[Carry-On]

Hypothermia and mental illness do not mix well on the Appalachian Trail in early October in Pennsylvania (2012). We have a nervous night with someone in danger who might also have been a danger to us. Would you have stayed? Gone on? What if you were alone? The only reason I stayed is because I had a friend (also a woman) with me, and a local guy who was aware of the situation.

http://carryonadventures.blogspot.com/2013/04/10-02-12-pa-bake-oven-knob-shelter.html


Has anybody else had unnerving experiences like this? Also, did anybody ever meet Chris and his dog, Lou last year? He seemed like he had just gotten on the trail and I don't see how he could have survived headed north. I've been wondering what happened to them.

[Carry-On]

Last I heard Chris and Lou were accepted into the Jail House Hostel in Palmerton.

[HikerMom58]

Carry-On... I told you about meeting JJ (or John) on the trail in 2008, at McAfee Knob. Same thing as you experienced with this Chris dude. It was so obvious that he suffered from a mental illness plus the fact he was homeless living on the trail. I think about him often, just like you think about Chris....

If I had met him in a shelter on the trail, I would have been so much more upset. I was already upset just meeting him, briefly, like I did.

But like you said, you feel like there was a reason for the meeting and you helped met a need. Even to the point of meeting a life or death need. :eek:

I don't know what to do about this. I wish we could do something to help them out, long term. If anyone met/heard about what happened to JJ, I would love to know that he's OK. I understand how you feel....

[greenmtnboy]

I have never felt threatened or upset by other hikers on the AT or LT, etc.; you never know what people have been through in their lives that have brought them to this point. One person's "mental illness" is another person's unhappiness, weirdness, dysfunction, and so forth. To me the greatest transgressions are those that leave others in these difficult predicaments.

[TheYoungOne]

Now you know why I want to skip the Bake Oven Knob section if I ever do a thru hike. I hiked that section twice, and both times I seen nothing but trash, junkies, and creepy stuff. I extremely enjoy every other section in PA and other parts of the AT, but that section is just nasty. My advice is if you are on a thru is to skip Bake Oven shelter and just got to Allentown Shelter if you are SOBO or Outerbridge Shelter if you are NOBO.

[WingedMonkey]

If bipolar folks are allowed to post on Whiteblaze, they certainly should be allowed on the trail.

[HikerMom58]

I have never felt threatened or upset by other hikers on the AT or LT, etc.; you never know what people have been through in their lives that have brought them to this point. One person's "mental illness" is another person's unhappiness, weirdness, dysfunction, and so forth. To me the greatest transgressions are those that leave others in these difficult predicaments.

I'm glad you never felt upset or threatened, yourself, while hiking on the trail. What do you mean by...."to me the greatest transgressions are those that leave others in these difficult predicaments." What are you trying to say?

[HikerMom58]

Now you know why I want to skip the Bake Oven Knob section if I ever do a thru hike. I hiked that section twice, and both times I seen nothing but trash, junkies, and creepy stuff. I extremely enjoy every other section in PA and other parts of the AT, but that section is just nasty. My advice is if you are on a thru is to skip Bake Oven shelter and just got to Allentown Shelter if you are SOBO or Outerbridge Shelter if you are NOBO.

I'm so glad to hear about this shelter, I'll def. avoid it.. Thanks for sharing. :)

[Bronk]

This may sound cold to some (no pun intended), but if you cannot take care of your own needs you shouldn't be on the trail. I wouldn't have stayed the night with a person with obvious mental problems just because I was afraid they would freeze to death. My own safety trumps the safety of others. I would have hiked on in the rain and the dark until I felt like I was a safe distance away and then I would have pitched my tent where it wouldn't be visible from the trail. He had his dog, he would not have frozen to death.

[vamelungeon]

Bronk is correct. I have had to deal with mentally ill people on a professional level (I'm not a mental health professional) and it's hard to know if a person is a danger to themselves or to others if you aren't a professional- and sometimes if you are- so perhaps the best thing to do is distance yourself from them. Most states have systems in place to get help for the mentally ill who are dangerous or who are unable to take care of themselves. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to contact the authorities if someone needs help, and this guy obviously did. With the right medication his illness might not have been so obvious, and perhaps might have not been a problem at all.

[kayak karl]

If bipolar folks are allowed to post on Whiteblaze, they certainly should be allowed on the trail.
i think they should post in the "special' forum and on the trail only hike the psychedelic blazes.

[HikerMom58]

Bronk is correct. I have had to deal with mentally ill people on a professional level (I'm not a mental health professional) and it's hard to know if a person is a danger to themselves or to others if you aren't a professional- and sometimes if you are- so perhaps the best thing to do is distance yourself from them. Most states have systems in place to get help for the mentally ill who are dangerous or who are unable to take care of themselves. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to contact the authorities if someone needs help, and this guy obviously did. With the right medication his illness might not have been so obvious, and perhaps might have not been a problem at all.

Bronk... I don't think you are cold.

vamelungeon.... I've had to learn about mentall illness. (I'm not a mental health professional, either) Unless they harm themselves or someone else you can't force them to get help. Others can clearly see that they need help but they can't/are unwilling to get the help they need. That's what is so upsetting, to most people, that love them or care about their well-being.

The loved ones I talked too, in the group setting, admitted that they were forced to lie and say their loved one was a danger to themselves so they could get medication for them. Once they got the medication, they needed to be closely monitored or else they would not take the medication. Without medication, they were not able to care properly for themselves and didn't want to wait around for the day, their loved one, did end up harming themselves or others.

These folks on the trail, apparently, have no one to watch out for them at all. How Carry-On handled this situation is commendable. But, I wouldn't have thought she was a bad person, at all, for leaving the shelter to protect herself.

The system that allows situations like this to occur, IMHO, is broken. I feel the most empathy/compassion for the one that is not well. No one should have to live like that....

[Wise Old Owl]

Mental Illness, drunk behavior, doing drugs, rude hikers, and dogs, all part of the trail experience.


Try to find the good in people = priceless.

[chris too]

I have mixed feelings about these posts because I understand how safety is an important factor on the trail; and if your gut tells you a person might be dangerous, listen to it, and move on. However, not all mentally ill people are dangerous and not all people acting strangely are mentally ill; there are health problems such as diabetes when sugar is low that can appear to be very odd. I feel uncomfortable with advising people to distance themselves from people in need: sometimes people just need a kind word, a laugh, a power bar. For many of us the trail is part of a solitary journey, but I hope to find a balance between my internal search, need for safety, and my intent to be compassionate. I like the idea of calling authorities as one way to help a lost, sick soul -- if it were myself, a family member, or friend I would hope someone would look after me or them.




"When we assert intuition, we are therefore like the starry night: we gaze at the world through a thousand eyes." Clarissa Pinkola Estes

[HikerMom58]

chris too... It's funny that you mentioned diabetes. I haven't thru hiked but was in contact with both a diabetic and a mentally ill person on the trail. It wasn't hard for me, or the ones I was with, to tell the difference at all. I'm sure that's not always the case, tho. The diabetic person didn't hide the fact he was diabetic. I wouldn't think that anyone would. Of course, the mentally ill person didn't mention his illness at all. Both of them had problems that I was able to help them out with.... I looked after both of them.

[chris too]

Hiker mom, it sounds like you're a very caring person as many people are on this site and on the trail. I have had a few experiences with people who had low sugar and were very out of it and weren't able to explain, but it makes sense when you say that most people are able to explain their condition. I haven't thru hiked or section hiked yet. I have only day hiked and car camped, have a week long section hike in the fall planned, am completely consumed by it and have been on here a lot lately. I work in the mental health field frequently with the poor and disadvantaged and can feel a bit protective at times... I would never judge anyone for feeling the need to walk away for safety and personal boundaries -- I guess I just hope that people would listen to their intuition to help them stay safe while helping others when they can.

[imscotty]

This is a sad story. It was so very good of the poster to stay and try to help, but it may have been safer for her to move on. I am not sure what I would have done; I certainly would not have slept much. The deinstitutialization of the mentally ill has had a mixed bag of outcomes. Perhaps a bad day on the trail for Chris is still better than the alternatives. It was Chris's choice, presuming he can make reasoned choices. Unless someone is a danger to others, I do not support coerced treatment or detention. I have over time grown to appreciate and support people's right to neurodiversity.

[chief]

I have over time grown to realize people who use made up words are probably just stupid.

[Feral Bill]

Perhaps the hardest thing I've dealt with as an educator is accepting that sometimes I can't help a person who clearly needs it. Yet each of us can, at times, be of real help to a person in need. At the time, we may not even realize what we have done. HikerMom sets a good standard to follow.

[HikerMom58]

Here's a RidgeRunner's account of the interaction with JJ/John a few years before my encounter with John/JJ on McAfee Knob in 2008.

John/JJ
Heya Karen... I beleive it was 2006 when I met John but possibly 2005, either April or May. I was heading South towards T.K. Shelter to get out of the storm. Lightning was literally crashing all around on the unprotected totally exposed ridgeline. About 5 minutes before I got there, off to my left, about 30 feet off The Trail, I saw someone standing/hiding inside of a large thicket of Rhodis. I kept walking and made some space between me and this sketchy behavior, circled around off The Trail and walked back North directlly toward him in the open/plain view. As I approached, he stumbled out of the bush and said "I found it! I found it! I found The Trail!" I responded "Hey buddy, I know where The Trail is and your not on it" He looked at me with his rattling eyes and said "Oh, I guess, you know where The Trail is" I asked if he was Thru-hiking and he said he was. We was wearing blue jeans and carrying an old large external frame pack. I knew he wasnt thru-hiking. I asked when he started his hike and it seemed to cause his eyes to rattle more severely. He couldnt remember when he started. I asked him his name and it looked like his eyes almost rolled back in his head. Took him at least 10 seconds of total silence between us before he said his name was John. He seemed to be struggling to even reach/find/remember/say his name.

Seemingly out of no where our brief talk turns. He says "You think your pack is heavy? Mine was 115 pounds and his was almost 150 pounds" No one else there. He continued to tell me stories of War, Vietnam. Before, he went off the deep end I tried to interupt his train of thought. I said his name kind of loudly "John! Are you ok?" He was totally derailed, he looked me off, his eyes were shaking like a hypothermic person shakes and jerks. Just not his body, only his eyes. Eventually, He said he was just hungry. I had some candy in my pocket, pulled some out, and ate a piece. I offered him some and he said he was fasting and not eating. Def. not a clear headed behavior for a hiker soaked by cold rain. Soon, he accepted the candy but I didnt see him eat it.

I asked him to come to the shelter with me but that only brought out more confusion and seemed to kinda aggitate him. He said he'd hiked The PCT, The CDT and had hiked The A.T. a few times. He said he had miles to go before he could sleep and wouldnt go back to the shelter with me. I stood in the rain and watched him walk up the ridge in the storm. I saw lightning strike within 20 yards of him and prob. 60 yards from me.

I went to the shelter to dry/warm. Five hikers there told me they saw him the night before at Lost Mountain shelter. He showed up late at night asking for help, even demanding someone to help. He gave no reason for wanting assistance and was gone about the time he got there. I asked if he stopped by T.K. shelter and they said no, he just walked by. They all seemed to know him as the crazed fasting hiker.

I sat with them for about 10 minutes before I put my wet rain gear back on and went back North after John. I wanted to do something for him, to protect him from himself. I hiked as hard as I could to just past Massie Gap but never saw him. I walked back South over Wilburn Ridge to Rhodi Gap more cautiously expecting to spot him tented out somewhere but never did. I took The Crest Trail over to The Scales and got out of the rain myself. The next morning I headed South. I asked everyone I saw that day if anyone had met john and no one had. I talked to everyone that stayed at Wise Shelter the night before and no one saw him. That day I swept both sides of The Trail and kept thinking I would come across him in a tent under a tarp or something. I neevr saw a sign of him, nobody else saw him after T.K. Shelter.


Jhn was prob in his 40's but he looked older like he'd been living hard, hard to get an exact age on him.
Gotta go for now.... Be safe

When I met him he said he was a starving "thru hiker". He was very paranoid. When you looked in his eyes, it looked like no one was home. He talked about how corrupt the government was and how they were out to get him. He told us that Alanis Morissette wrote songs just for him and sang them to him, herself, in a row boat, etc..... During dinner at the HomePlace he was spitting out pieces of his own teeth. When I suggested he might need to see a dentist, he looked agitated at me for even suggesting it. He told me he didn't need to go to a dentist. I dropped him back off the trail head on 311 in Catawba and haven't heard anyone talk about him since. We reported him that night. They phone interviewed me and the SOBO's that was staying with me. Someone went looking for him the next day. I, like Carry-On with Chris, would love to know that he's OK.

I really like what this same Ridgerunner wrote in the comment before he described his encounter with John/JJ.....

John/JJ
Hey Karen... I worked for a few years as the Mount Rogers Ridgerunner and met John one cold windy rainy day just north of Thomas Knob Shelter. It took just a few seconds to see something was wrong with him and just a few more to see he had some serious emotional issues. Sadly, he's not the only broken soul living on The Trail or in the woods just off The Trail. I talked with him for 10 minutes or so in the midst of an intense thunderstorm. I could see inner turmoil in his eyes and hear them in his words. He almost instantly spoke of war, fasting, losing The Trail, lonliness. I notified The Forest Service, Backcountry Law Enforcement and The A.T.C. of his location. I never saw him again and never heard anything else about him. I met over 15,000 people as a Ridgerunner and I can only think of less than a dozen others like him. Many people are drawn to wilderness, including the sick. Only by the grace of God... there goes I.

[imscotty]

I have over time grown to realize people who use made up words are probably just stupid.

Hello Chief,

I am guessing that your comment was directed to me, if so then I am sorry if my wording offended you. Actually, neurodiversity is not a word that I made up, it is actually a social movement that has been around and growing for some time that advocates for the mentally ill. For example here is an article from the New York Times Health section from 2004.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/09/weekinreview/neurodiversity-forever-the-disability-movement-turns-to-brains.html

Here is a quote from the Wikipedia entry on Neurodiversity that explains it better than I could...

"Neurodiversity is also an online international disability rights movement, and has been promoted primarily by the autistic self-advocate community (though other disability groups and disability rights communities are being included). This movement frames neurodiversity as a natural human variation rather than a disease. These advocates reject the idea that neurological differences need to be (or can be) cured, as they believe them to be authentic forms of human diversity, self-expression, and being. These advocates promote support systems (such as inclusion-focused services, accommodations, communication and assistive technologies, occupational training, and independent living support[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity#cite_note-1)) that allow those who are neurologically different to live their lives as they are, rather than attempting to enforce uncritically accepted views of normalcy, or conform to a clinical ideal."

I have a close relationship with someone most people would consider as having a mental illness. The more we both focused on 'fixing' the aberrant behaviors the more miserable we both became. When I finally began to fully accept this person for who they are, the happier and healthier we both became. This person experiences the world in ways that I will never fully comprehend, yet from their unique perspective has flowed such incredible creativity, and beauty and yes sometimes pain. It can hurt to watch them struggle in a world that values normal, but I love them deeply and knowing this person has enriched my life so very much.

Anyway, that is my perspective and the reason I posted as I did. I am sorry if it made me sound stupid.

Scott

[Carry-On]

I would like to thank everybody for your responses. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion. I don't want people to be fearful while hiking the AT or any trail, and I'm not trying to increase fear. I am, however, a big advocate of being alert and prepared in your mind ahead of time for certain scenarios you might encounter.

One thing I never seriously considered was encountering serious mental illness. I had considered how I would help someone who was hypothermic, though (as a former EMT, it's just natural).

So anyway, I think I made the right decision for me, for that situation and it worked out, so that was a relief. I was not alone and had phone service and somebody else who knew the situation. After thinking about it a bit I decided that had I been alone, I would have moved on and then called the police, for his safety.

[adamkrz]

I believe a couple were murdered on the trail helping a mental person, I would give some food and move on.

[Wise Old Owl]

sad but unfortunate and true... again driving to the trail is far more dangerous.

[Dogwood]

Mental Illness, drunk behavior, doing drugs, rude hikers, and dogs, all part of the trail experience.

Try to find the good in people = priceless.

+1 Ditto! Nice post WOO!

[chris too]

Chief, thank you for sharing part of your personal experience; I've been in a similar situation and it has resulted in a combination of much joy and pain for me. It might not count for a lot, but I don't think you sound stupid at all. I appreciate your input and am glad we are all sharing our ideas and perspectives on this topic. I'm not sure there are any right or wrong answers here; I guess that's why I mentioned each of us following our own instinct because it often won't steer us wrong if we pay attention. At least every time I have not listened to my gut, I have paid for it later -- but when followed it has kept me and others out of jams. It sounds like the poster, Chris, is kind and also sensible; he had support while he was helping the person -- and I respect his choice.

We can only help as much as the person lets us and at times we might feel discouraged, but kind words and deeds can have a huge impact on someone. I once read a book about a psychiatrist who was doing therapy with a young man who would not talk to this doctor. The doctor respected the young man's wishes and each session said "I'm here for you when you're ready to talk. I will just sit here and read until you say something." This went on for several months. Finally the parents contacted the doctor and gratefully thanked the psychiatrist for all the wonderful work he had done with their son and reported that the teen had much improved and was doing very well. Here all the young man needed was to be respected and given the power to choose silence. Amazing how simply respecting a person can plant a seed of healing that we might never fully understand. However, some people might have severely criticized this mode of therapy and said the good doctor was uncaring and ripping off this family who was paying for therapy every week -- yet it was just what the adolescent needed. Long story short -- ya just never know...

[chris too]

sorry for the oops: I called Carry On, Chris in my above post.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I have over time grown to realize people who use made up words are probably just stupid.

Please give me an example of a word that wasn't made up by somebody. :D

[WingedMonkey]

i think they should post in the "special' forum and on the trail only hike the psychedelic blazes.


If you can figure out a way to keep them in the "special" forum. To some all the blazes are psychedelic.

[Carry-On]

sorry for the oops: I called Carry On, Chris in my above post.

No worries. :)

[Carry-On]

For anybody who is interested in what happened next, I finally got the next blog entry completed. As you can see, it all turned out okay, at least for us. It was one of the most intense nights I would spend on my thru-hike, but nothing bad happened to any of us that night. It didn't negatively affect my overall experience or add more fear to my hike. Chris is someone I could have encountered in any city. Just most of the time I wouldn't spend the night with him. :P

http://carryonadventures.blogspot.com/2013/05/10-03-12-pa-allentown-hiking-club.html

[gre96]

So true ....

[keepinitsimple]

nice.......
I have over time grown to realize people who use made up words are probably just stupid.

[keepinitsimple]

A few posts here helped me with what I have been dealing with lately. Life with a child who has autism. Through the pain of fighting his behaviors I have started to see the beauty. Or I should say, pain is the touch stone of all growth? I had to look for the beauty in his behavior, otherwise I would go nuts. It is constant, night and day, affects all in the home. We really focus on good days, because the bad ones would leave you hopeless. Ok- enough, life is good, it could be worse. I love WB. Maybe I will start a post for Hikers with autistic family. He loves the woods. The pics in my profile are of him at the Pinnacle in PA. Anyhow, I think I am going to put a post up. Thanks for letting me dump.

[HikerMom58]

God bless you keepinitsimple. My husbands sister has an autistic son. The picture of you and your son is beautiful. He is a beautiful boy.

I know it's not easy at times..... I think you should start a post for other families dealing with autism. Support is a good thing. So glad you found some support on this thread. :)

[MDSection12]

I've met two people so far that both told me outright that they were on disability for mental illness and lived on the trail. Both seemed nice enough, but both also gave me cause for a little concern. Not enough to make me uncomfortable but enough to make me a little more aware of what's going on around me. If it got to the point that I was uncomfortable I'd just move on.

I was a little concerned for the liking one of the guys seemed to take for last year's ridgerunner at Annapolis Rocks though. I got the impression that he was circling up and down the trail just to have an excuse to stop and see her. When we mentioned her briefly he perked up and had a lot of questions. She was probably half his age. No offense to the very friendly and helpful guy that's up there this year, but I don't forsee him having the same problem. :p

[BostonBlue]

I have known too many people who have died at the hands of, or were serious hurt, by mentally unstable people to get involved with them on the trail. I am cautious even in the city, but on the trail when I am hiking alone? There is no way. Women should be even more cautious.

I realize that many feel compelled to reach out to the mentally unsound people on the trail. As politically incorrect as it may sound, I think it is dangerous to do so especially if you are alone. When I am off the trail, I help in other ways, but when I am on the AT or out hiking? No.

[MDSection12]

I have known too many people who have died at the hands of, or were serious hurt, by mentally unstable people to get involved with them on the trail. I am cautious even in the city, but on the trail when I am hiking alone? There is no way. Women should be even more cautious.

I realize that many feel compelled to reach out to the mentally unsound people on the trail. As politically incorrect as it may sound, I think it is dangerous to do so especially if you are alone. When I am off the trail, I help in other ways, but when I am on the AT or out hiking? No.

As has been mentioned, sometimes calling the authorities is helping. If I really thought someone was in danger, but didn't feel comfortable helping myself, I'd call the authorities once I got what I considered a safe distance away. You can't categorically say you wouldn't help in any way. Just from reading this one post of yours I think you seem too compassionate for that... But who knows, I may be wrong.

[Silent Stroll]

Originally Posted by chief
I have over time grown to realize people who use made up words are probably just stupid.

Shakespeare invented over 1700. I won't go on a "rant", as I may be perceived as one traveling on a "moonbeam". Now I would not call him "zany" or "gnarled" but his "stupidity" seems a bit "unreal". The post I quoted made me "uncomfortable" but my "addiction" to words spun my feelings towards "laughable".

[BostonBlue]

As has been mentioned, sometimes calling the authorities is helping. If I really thought someone was in danger, but didn't feel comfortable helping myself, I'd call the authorities once I got what I considered a safe distance away. You can't categorically say you wouldn't help in any way. Just from reading this one post of yours I think you seem too compassionate for that... But who knows, I may be wrong.

I think it goes without saying that the majority of us would naturally call the authorities just to alert them of the situation and save them from themselves if need be. Likewise, if someone was hurt or suffering from hypothermia, I would help them regardless. If it was possible, I would call for help first. Hypothermia indeed often masks itself as deranged and disoriented anyway. Hopefully I could get a signal and the person would allow me to help. If not, I would do what I could and then seek out help.

[imscotty]

Thank you Silent Stroll for your clever 'ode' against my 'critic'. To be 'besmirched' and 'accused' of stupidity for my post left me feeling a bit 'gloomy' and 'jaded'. I will try not to 'scuffle' with or 'mimic' negative posters or let them 'dishearten' me. Instead I will strive to only use Whiteblase to 'champion' the 'majestic' 'mountaineer'.

[chief]

You guys are so clever.

[LAHiker]

Wow! That is an incredibly sad story. I hiked that area all through my high school years in the 80's. Can't imagine what would have happened had we rolled across this guy. People can be scary and people can be truly wonderful human beings and I am equally impressed with the unusual nature of both.

[Feral Nature]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by kayak karl http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1464894#post1464894)
i think they should post in the "special' forum and on the trail only hike the psychedelic blazes.




If you can figure out a way to keep them in the "special" forum. To some all the blazes are psychedelic.


I am Bipolar and do not see the humor in this. I have struggled with "neurodiversity" my whole life and I am so looking forward to my thruhike, to seeing a part of the country I haven't seen, to meeting new people, to feel a sense of happiness, satisfaction and pride. Now, after reading this thread, I feel unwelcomed on the trail.

[Feral Nature]

This was written by WM
If you can figure out a way to keep them in the "special" forum. To some all the blazes are psychedelic.

[da fungo]

It's unfortunate that you feel unwelcome because of that statement. However, in my reading of those words what comes across to me iss that the author was trying to be humorous, not hostile. Perhaps, even probably, it wasn't funny to you, but that shouldn't make it into a personal insult to you.I hope you are able to undertake and complete your through hike. But keep in mind, you'll be just another through hiker. Everyone out there will run into people they don't like; everyone will hear things that they'd rather not hear. On White Blaze, it's popular to say "Hike your own hike". But that at least implies that you are responsible for the success of your own hike - you can't blame someone else's comments for the quality of your experience; you have to carry your own welcome with as you go.

[Feral Nature]

I HMOH everyday.

[kidchill]

OK, here's my story, as well as my 2 cents...And this is only MY "subjective" opinion. I met someone in that very same spot in PA. I was SOBO last year and it was roughly the first week in Oct when I was in PA. It was a rainy day from the get-go so I was pretty much just trudging along, listening to my music. I stopped at a shelter, got some water and ate some food. I can't remember the terrain exactly, but I thought I had a climb of some sort, and then went over the knife's edge. All I know, is it was raining like crazy and I was moving as quick as possible. Knife's Edge slowed me down though, I was wearing those Cascadia shoes and the wet rock was slippery as all hell. I had just come down the edge in the pouring rain and I noticed this extremely large white dog. I want to say it was a husky, but I don't know for sure, but it was figgin huge! It was also a beautiful dog, so I stopped to say hi real quick and kept moving. The owner was not far behind and as he approached, his first words were, "Do you have any bread I can have?" It just seemed odd, so I said no and kept moving. Then he asked if I had "any" food he could have. Again, I said no, and was slowly hiking on. Then he asked "Where is the log-cabin?" This threw me for a loop! I was like, "The shelter? You mean the shelter?" He replied, "Yah, the log cabin! Where is it?" At this point I'm confused, I would NEVER refer to a shelter as a log-cabin...to me, a log-cabin is something nice. I basically told him it was a shelter, and at that point it was roughly 4miles away. He replied, "Oh, that's nothing. Yah, and I can stay there right? It's free right?" So, now I'm a little taken-aback. No, the miles weren't that high, but it was craptastic terrain, up in the air, slippery as hell, and pouring down rain! So, I was just thinking, yah 4 miles is nothing, have fun with that...It was quite obvious this guy was just straight up pan-handling on the trail and probably didn't have the appropriate resources to be out there. I think he was wearing jeans, I can't remember exactly, but he was definitely wearing one of those knitted ponchos (the hispanic looking ones); basically, the worst possible clothes for the rain! He also had a messenger type bag on...not even a true backpack, a one strap messenger bag. The whole thing was odd, so I just hiked on. I could barely hear him say something over the noise of the rain as I hiked away. He repeated himself, yelling at that point, I just pretended not to hear anything and hiked faster. I wasn't in fear of him, I just wasn't gonna deal with any BS, especially with rain pouring down on me...also, unless he's in awesome shape, there's no way in hell he was gonna catch me on the trail. This may or may not be the same guy you're talking about. Now, here's my opinion about the situation. First of all, no one out there is my responsibility. I AM number one in the woods. I have absolutely NO problems helping someone out, and the times I was with others on the trail, and a hiker needed something, I had their back! That being said, I refuse to offer help to people that are begging/panhandling, completely unprepared, or have no money. I'm not trying to sound like a total D-bag, but I saw quite a few people that were trying to hike the trail and were reliant on hand-outs, or completely dependent on others to mail money, food, gear, etc. It's NOT my problem. I planned, saved, and had a healthy bank account before I went on my thruhike. For example, there was a guy I met on the northern end of the trail that was jobless, so he decided to thruhike. Nice kid, I have no problems with him, and I'm not trying to talk bad about him; however, he was in his mid 20's and was jobless for no reason other then he didn't want to work! Not only that, but he was living off of food stamps and government assistance in the real world, and was completely dependent on his girlfriend's family to send money/supplies. There was a town that he couldn't get his maildrop in because they sent it to the next town, so he was pretty much screwed. He literally had NO money, and had like 1 pack of ramen to cover the next 20 something miles. I probably could've spared a little food, but that meant I would have to miss a meal because of him. My opinion is this, between SS, Medicare/medicaid, and income taxes, I'm paying the gov't roughly 50k a year. I'm essentially paying for this guy's food, housing, and healthcare on a daily basis in the real world...is it also my responsibility to support him on the trail? The answer is no! He wasn't going to die, and I wasn't going to miss a meal because of him. Plain and simple. Now, the guy in the shelter that you saw, most likely had some mental health issues going on...but, it's not your responsibility to provide him with healthcare. Further, trying to help the mentally ill can end up in your being injured. My point is this, and purely my opinion, you shouldn't risk your health or safety to assist others when it's not your responsibility. Now, this isn't a blanked apathetic statement. Like I said, I have no problems helping people out of a jam, but not at the risk of myself, and sometimes purely out of principle...I just can't bring myself to do it. So, you didn't do anything wrong by moving on, and If were you, I probably would've moved on even sooner and not spent the night there. Don't question your actions, I think you made the right choice.

[rickb]

Thru hikers are some of the most accepting and tolerant people there are.

Thru hikers are also extremely comfortable and confident in their environment.

Thru hikers believe that the AT is safer than any other place on earth, and that violent crime is as unlikely as winning the lottery.

But...

The cold facts are that five thru hikers (yes, theu hikers) have also been murdered on the AT proper-- all of them many hundreds of miles in to their adventure.

Compasion is important, but so is caution. To my way of thinking, every future thru hiker -- and sobos and couples and women in particular-- should know the names and history of the five thru hikers whose trips were cut short by a crazy ****. Not to be afraid along the way, but for you to keep in the back of your mind when you are tempted to stay at a shelter with some oddball, because it is YOUR trail, and you are belong there (damn it).

In another thread the poster spoke of tenting around a shelter where a drunk was shooting his 45 out the front of the shelter at 1 AM. They had spoken to him and his family earlier, but didn't know what was up. Perhaps they were rationalizing his behavior as that of a garden variety idiot. They were to afraid to investigate, but did not move on. Can you see yourself in that situation doing the same? I can.

But I hope I would have packed up and left-- and would have reacted in the same manner as I would have expected of myself in any other place, other than the AT.