Week long route - anyone know a cheap and scenic way?

[TEMortimer]

So I've started to plan a weeklong trip for about 25 people around mid to late august, and as I've been looking into more secluded routes we could take I've found that there are some insane rates that certain sites are charging(e.g. Baxter state park $20 per person per night). We're younger folks and none of us are very privileged so we were trying to keep the costs of permits as low as we possibly can. A minority of us are novices, so we'd probably be doing a maximum of 10 miles a day. Any ideas for cheap, nice, secluded routes? Thanks.

[TEMortimer]

We're going for a backcountry type of experience, by the way.

[rocketsocks]

Lots of good back country hiking in Michigan.

[Another Kevin]

25 people is really high impact in the backcountry - few sites can accommodate a party that large without taking some serious damage. Dividing the group into four parties of 6-7 would be more reasonable. Get all the people together afterward at a restaraunt in town or a front-country campground if you want a big gathering.

[TEMortimer]

Oh yeah, it's beautiful here. Nailed the porcupine mountains, which are actually hills, a couple summers ago. I think we want a change in scenery, though. Maybe real mountains with some different plants and exotic trails.

[TEMortimer]

Dividing the group into four parties of 6-7 would be more reasonable. That's what we usually do, is divide up into smaller groups and take different camp sites. We are typically very good at moving in a mass without damaging nature, maybe because a large number of us are former boy scouts. And again, if you know a nice section of the trail that's cheap and scenic in august, that'd be great.

[Siestita]

For an August trip its helpful to get up fairly high and stay there, mitigating that month's heat. So, consider spending your week in Southwestern Virginia, specifically within the Mount Rogers National Recreation area. You'll probably encounter mostly pleasant weather there, but keep in mind that the elevations go up to 5,700 feet. In the words of one official warning, "Be prepared for sudden temperature drops at high elevations, even in summer. Several hikers on short outings have died of exposure in this area! Dense fog, rain, and cold are potential hazards any month of the year."

Individuals or small, informal groups of backpackers do not need to obtain permits to backpack in the Recreation Area, but reportedly outfitters and organized groups (such as scout troops) do need permits. The Park Service wisely insists that large groups be broken up into separate, much smaller, parties. (See Kevin's sage advise above.) Permitting the organized groups may help disperse those back country campers somewhat. You'll probably meet section hikers at shelters and camp sites along the AT, while at similar locations along the Iron Mountain Trail you may find yourselves camping along side courteous, competently led religious youth groups. During late July and early August of 2012 I spend twelve nights back country camping as I completed a very leisurely loop using the AT and Iron Mt. Trails. I hiked solo, but had a shelter or camping area completely to myself on only four nights.

The current AT, and an earlier AT route on a parallel ridge (now the Iron Mountain Trail) can be combined to create loop hikes of varying lengths. Between the town of Damascus and Marion there are various ways that out-and-back or loop hikes of 60-70 miles can be put together.The most scenic areas, such as the open 'Crest Zone" zone above Grayson Highlands State Park, receive many day hikers, along with backpackers. Apparently, backpackers have not been having problems with nuisance /habituated bear activity in the Grayson Highlands area. But, in some places hikers need to guard their food from pesky wild ponies.

To learn a little bit about the area's attractions see:

http://mratc.pbworks.com/w/page/34776112/Suggested%20Hikes%20and%20Trips

http://virginiatrailguide.com/2009/10/17/mount-rogers/

[Siestita]

Finding extended trails that impose no fees is easy. You have many potential choices, both along much of the AT, and on other trails. But, in the higher parts of the Appalachians, especially in those places that are especially scenic, your group will not necessarily experience solitude during August.

So, if having camp sites to yourselves is a high priority, consider instead hiking a stretch of a lower elevation trail, such as, for example, the southern portion of Kentucky's Sheltowee Trace. That one's very scenic in a different way, but it gets hot in August. Trip planning, like life, is alas full of trade offs.

[peakbagger]

A group of 20 is not going to be welcome on much of the AT unless you break the group up. On most of the trail in New England its not illegal, just very uncourteous. Realistically, the cost to transport a crew a long distance to hike out east would be better spent staying closer to home and spending a bit more on campground. What many youth groups in the whites do is rent a group site at Barnes Field at the USFS Dolly Copp Campground and then split into groups of 10 or less, it is a short drive to more trails of differing difficulty than you could do in several weeks. Dayhiking is a lot easier on the group, some members will go slower and some faster and the itinerary on each day can be shifted as needed.

If you insist on shooting for baxter state park, a group site is $7 per head. Of course BS has a new very restrictive policy on groups, basically if there a group hiking with more than ten or anywhere near another part of their group, the group gets fined. If you do want to go there, reservations are essential. A minor thing to keep in mind is that the park roads are limited to cerain size vehicles, extended vans are okay, but no buses.

[fredmugs]

I haven't done it but a guy I hike with did the Superior Trail and it was pretty secluded from what he told me.

[DavidNH]

You should split your group of 25 into two separate groups! With 25.. you won't be able to use any shelter or perhaps even tent site because you are simply too many people. There won't be space. Besides, as already mentioned, this (a group of 25) is high impact and highly inappropriate in the back country.

Financially speaking, you get no sympathy from me. Don't go hiking in back country with so damned many people!

[Tuckahoe]

For an August trip its helpful to get up fairly high and stay there, mitigating that month's heat. So, consider spending your week in Southwestern Virginia, specifically within the Mount Rogers National Recreation area. You'll probably encounter mostly pleasant weather there, but keep in mind that the elevations go up to 5,700 feet. In the words of one official warning, "Be prepared for sudden temperature drops at high elevations, even in summer. Several hikers on short outings have died of exposure in this area! Dense fog, rain, and cold are potential hazards any month of the year."

This is a pretty good suggestion. There are plenty of trails in the Mt Rogers area to do a loop hike, or to do a straight shot on the AT either NOBO or SOBO.

Personally I'd suggest a SOBO hiking down to Damascus, as you'll still have elevation gain, but your generally working your way down from the highest point at Mt Rogers, to the lowest at Damascus. You could start at Massie Gap for about a 30 mile hike; Fox Creek for about 35 miles; or Dickey Gap for about 43 or so miles.

[TEMortimer]

Thanks for the advice Siestita, I had never even looked into the Iron Mountain Trail, and this is really helping the whole thing come together. I can probably create a few versatile routes in the area to break my group up into.
Trip planning, like life, is alas full of trade offs. The taste is bittersweet.

[Feral Bill]

Perhaps a front country group campsite in Glacier would suit you, with various day hikes for smaller groups.

[TEMortimer]

A group of 20 is not going to be welcome on much of the AT unless you break the group up. On most of the trail in New England its not illegal, just very uncourteous. Realistically, the cost to transport a crew a long distance to hike out east would be better spent staying closer to home and spending a bit more on campground. What many youth groups in the whites do is rent a group site at Barnes Field at the USFS Dolly Copp Campground and then split into groups of 10 or less, it is a short drive to more trails of differing difficulty than you could do in several weeks. Dayhiking is a lot easier on the group, some members will go slower and some faster and the itinerary on each day can be shifted as needed.

If you insist on shooting for baxter state park, a group site is $7 per head. Of course BS has a new very restrictive policy on groups, basically if there a group hiking with more than ten or anywhere near another part of their group, the group gets fined. If you do want to go there, reservations are essential. A minor thing to keep in mind is that the park roads are limited to cerain size vehicles, extended vans are okay, but no buses.

I understand where you guys are coming from with the courtesy bit. If there was a small stampede of young folk plowing through a pristine country, I'd consider it pretty inappropriate too. However when it comes to 'leave no trace', we're quite autocratic in embedding that moral code into the guys and gals, and I've always planned a way to have our crews broken up into smaller, personal groups that move at their own speed. Most of us are conditioned and aspire to do much more than day hikes, and we tend to make sure the stragglers straggle themselves into shape by the end of the experience. And for baxter, now that I see the group site rates, it seems much more feasible. Though the laws of the land over there seem to be quite strict and I would want to make sure I figured those out before even picking a route there. Thanks for the input.

[TEMortimer]

Perhaps a front country group campsite in Glacier would suit you, with various day hikes for smaller groups.
We've dreamed for many years about venturing west of the Mississippi, but that always seems to end with hurt feelings from estimating the traveling expenses.

[TEMortimer]

You should split your group of 25 into two separate groups! With 25.. you won't be able to use any shelter or perhaps even tent site because you are simply too many people. There won't be space. Besides, as already mentioned, this (a group of 25) is high impact and highly inappropriate in the back country.

Financially speaking, you get no sympathy from me. Don't go hiking in back country with so damned many people!
I mean, of course. We don't just want to drive down here so we can merely haul our backpacks up and down inclines, we're here to enjoy the appalachians, and that means making sure the trails are kept intact too. And if we go together as a group, we can buy our food and consumables in bulk, bringing down the costs for the folks who'd have trouble getting the money for it if they did it solo.

[TEMortimer]

This is a pretty good suggestion. There are plenty of trails in the Mt Rogers area to do a loop hike, or to do a straight shot on the AT either NOBO or SOBO.

Personally I'd suggest a SOBO hiking down to Damascus, as you'll still have elevation gain, but your generally working your way down from the highest point at Mt Rogers, to the lowest at Damascus. You could start at Massie Gap for about a 30 mile hike; Fox Creek for about 35 miles; or Dickey Gap for about 43 or so miles.
I'm really liking what I see in the mt rogers area, or just the elevated areas of southwest virginia. There are a lot of options around there.

[Siestita]

Here is a thread that I started a year ago about nuisance bear activity (or rather its absence) in the Mount Rogers Nat. Recreation Area:


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-85659.html
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-85659.html)

Also, if you decide to make Mount Rogers your destination, consider first contacting “Wilderness Trials Ministries”. They operate a base camp there. I am not suggesting that you join WTM’s program, but that you might be able to obtain some helpful, highly specific route planning advice from them. WTM has extensive experience sending youth groups on multi-night trips using that particular trail network, doing so thoughtfully so as not to inconvenience or crowd other hikers. Their last summer, 2013 group is scheduled to leave the woods on August 3rd. That may then leave some Iron Mountain shelters and attractive back country campsites vacant for your enjoyment. For contact information:


http://www.wtrail.com/our-location/