PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts on Magic...



Jack Tarlin
07-07-2005, 22:48
There's been a lot of discussion lately about the phenomenon of Trail Magic and organized Hiker Feeds and events. Some folks, including some very well-known folks in the hiker community are dead set against it, or at the very least, think there's too much of it.

Your thoughts, please. Is Trail Magic getting out of hand? Is it interfering with or causing damage to anyone's hike? Are today's hikers getting greedy, expectant, and spoiled because there's too much of it? Are critics of today's magic and large hiker feeds raising a legitimate point, or are they merely crabby and jealous because such things didn't exist when they were hiking? Should Trail magic be limited to towns or trailheads, or is it OK anywhere on the Trail?

Any and all comments are welcome.

saimyoji
07-07-2005, 22:59
Should Trail magic be limited...?
Ah, yes. More rules on how to hike. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank those whose trail magic (though very few) I have received (it was very appreciated), and those who chose not to provide TM when I was in particular need of something (again, very few times) as it made me stronger and reinforced my self reliance.

Maybe we could agree that people who don't like trail magic should pass it up, and leave it for people who do. Perhaps on our AT hiker cards, along with being stamped at each shelter, could contain a "TrailMagic Receiver" box. Then all you have to do is show that and get your TM and off you go. This would be reinforced by the cameras moitoring us as we pass each whiteblaze.

MOWGLI
07-07-2005, 23:11
I enjoyed the trail magic I received in 2000 very much. I found that the best kind of magic was the spontaneous type - but that's just me. It was all good.

Regarding organized hiker feeds and other such events - it is my opinion that an AT hiker could be most helpful volunteering with an ATC affiliated trail club, or along another trail in your community. It doesn't have to be trail work either. Maybe stuffing envelopes or folding newsletters, sharpening tools, or flipping burgers at a club event. There are dozens of tasks that need attending with a trail club. Of course, one of the best known hiker feeds is organized by a longtime maintainer with the Carolina Mountain Club.

Personally, as a former thru-hiker, I don't like to inject myself into someone elses hike experience. If someone needs a lift or assistance at a trailhead or in town, I offer it. I did that alot when I lived near the trail in NY. I also shuttled a number of folks for free after my thru-hike. I do that less now that I live nearly 2 hours from the AT.

These days, I usually don't identify myself as a 2000-miler (to other hikers) unless specifically asked. It changes the whole tenor of the conversation, and frankly, it ain't about me. The fact that I hiked the trail in a previous year is really totally irrelevant to someone elses hike experience.

neo
07-07-2005, 23:18
i think trail magic is cool,but i am a hiker that doesnt think it is owed to me,bou i do appreciate it very much,and i try to return something to the hiking community:cool: neo

TakeABreak
07-07-2005, 23:34
Well I think it goes both ways, some people go on a day hike, and knowing that it is thru hiker season and bring along fresh fruit, candy bars and such which is kool. Even if someone wants to drop a cooler in a stream (high enough to keep water out of course) like fannypack did in 2000 with peanut butter and Jelly sandwhiches. Someone I know put a baggy in it for donation and I left a buck.

But, on the other hand, while I was on day hikes, I ran across some hikers in the Nantahala section (where I lived for a couple of years) who expected it, and hinted towards it, to the point where they were flat out annoying.

A couple of ladies kept telling me how they were wanting to get into the NOC a day early so they could have time to rest before a friend met them there the next evening. We were at Tellico Gap and I was just getting ready to go for an evening hike, I first asked if they had plenty of food and fuel, cause i carried extra in my truck just in case I came across a hiker that was low or out. When they assured they had plenty of both. I told them look, it's only 10 or 12 miles to the noc by trail, if you do a couple more miles tonight and get an early start tomorrow you should get there in plenty of time to shower, do laundry and relax for a bit. They gave me dirty looks and I hiked on over to cold spring shelter to hand out cup cakes and such I got from the brakery.

Personally I think if someone wants to set up a grill and feed hikers, that it is going overboard, because they will begin to expect it. If a person wants to do magic to that level, why not go to where a trail crew is working and doing a major one or two day project. I think they would appreciate it more.

Whistler
07-07-2005, 23:39
I got TM three times this summer. Two were within 24 hours, large coolers set up with the drinks, snacks, etc. The first, and best by far, was when I stopped by Nean's to enjoy an OCP and have a few minutes of good conversation. Simple, but rewarding.

For me, it's that human touch that makes the magic. The analogy I'm thinking is writing a check to a charity v. working in a soup kitchen. The coolers were generous, yes, but also seemed a bit detached. That face-to-face contact makes it more special for both parties.

Never been to a hiker feed. My inclination is that if you keep it unobtrusive, it's no big deal [see: cellphone, mj, pets, etc.]. I probably wouldn't attend one, though.
-Mark

David S.
07-07-2005, 23:47
As a hiker that has never thru hiked, I have thought about doing some trail magic on several occasions but never have. What kind of psychology would make me want to do such a thing? I guess part of me was thinking that since I haven't hiked the trail, then the second best thing is to feel like I helped contribute to someone elses hike in some microscopic sort of way. Then I guess another part of me wants to feel like a hero to someone. Kind of a selfish motive I suppose but I think we all like to help or volunteer and get a few heartfelt thankyous every now and then. It feels good to be the giver rather than the taker more often than not.
If I were to run into someone that offered me trail magic...whether it be planned or spontanious, I would hopefully accept it with gratitude and many thanks....and if I didn't need what that person was offering, I would still offer heart felt thanks for the offer. These trail angels probably do what they do because at the end of the day it makes them feel good. Why should I deny them that good feeling? What harm is there in that? Regardless of the motive...if I'm out there because I want to feel like somebody's hero for 30 seconds or if I just enjoy spending money on complete strangers, trail magic should not be viewed as a negative thing. There are way more important things to pout about besides someone wanting to give a hiker a free meal or a ride into town. On the other hand, I have heard of trail angels fighting over locations and even hikers. That is not a good thing because they are obviously doing it for all the wrong reasons. If your out seeking to be famous amoung the hiking community by being a trial angel, then I would think that is a bad motive...though I would still take your food... :) These are just my thoughts on the subject...which is written from my limited perspective. I've never thru hiked and have never done any trial magic...and I'm willing to be corrected if my thoughts are out of sync. :)

A-Train
07-08-2005, 00:32
Good topic. Personally my opinion has shifted recently. I used to support any type of magic. Thru-hiking was an amazing thing in my eyes and these people needed to be celebrated for doing what I thought was incredible. I still have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who tries it, but it has become more popular and i've done it, so my position has changed a bit I guess. I tend to agree more with the old-school purist thought that trail magic should be a spontaneous thing that happens on the spot. I've seen a lot of this recent pre-scheduled magic and feeds and cookouts and I think a lot of it is more about the person giving it then the hikers recieving it. I think often people give to feel better about themselves. Its human nature just like giving to a charity and then seeing your name posted next to being a generous donor. Some people don't crave this but many do.

Even this summer I've driven a lot of miles to get hikers to a pizza place and ice cream, and gas ain't exactly cheap. But I know they appreciate it, and personally, I get pleasure out of it. I like to be around LD hikers and I like to help when I can. But the desire to help hikers for me has recently diminished. There are too many hikers, and often they are so warn out from magic, I've had hikers turn me down for a free handout or ride to a store. I realize I can't please everyone, so don't often want to offer anymore. Plus I do think it makes me or anyone else seem kind of desperate.

Long story short, nothing wrong with helping a hiker who is in need, and doing something nice once in awhile. I really think the spontaneous magic i.e. giving someone a lift while you were driving by, or meeting someone on the trail and bringing them home is more natural and healthy than planning to look for hikers at a parking lot and cook for them for 3 days. tHIS has become a tradition the past couple years and I know hikers DON'T have to partake if they don't want to, but it seems like it really does take away from the experience more.

Personally I would have never hitched 100 miles ahead or behind to a town on my hike, but that is my opinion and style of hiking. The Whiteblaze gathering comes to mind that we had in Caratunk. It was a great time and I was so glad to meet and talk with Whiteblazers, but it seemed like a lot of the hikers were hitching from one party to the next, finding any way to take a week off here or there to sit around and drink. Seems these gatherings just breed more boredom on the trail for hikers and a desire to have distractions. Just an observation, so don't kill me for it. Again, nothing wrong with this style, just differs from my own. Just my 2 cents.

Tha Wookie
07-08-2005, 00:39
Trail magic is great: people out to help other people have the time of their lives. How selfless, inspiring, and beautiful.

Thank you Trail Angels!

Sly
07-08-2005, 00:57
I tend to have a problem with alot of trail definitions, trail magic being one of them. To me, today's trail magic such as hiker feeds, and coolers are acts of "trail kindness". And although I have no problem with them, afterall, it's easy enough to walk on by, I do believe many hikers begin to expect it. How can they not, it's so prevelant.

To me, "trail magic" is something completely spontaneous more along the lines of a wildlife encounter, a rainbow or turning a corner to a spectacular view.

Bankrobber
07-08-2005, 01:01
Good topic Jack,
When I was hiking in 2003, trail magic absolutely made my day. Coming upon a coke in stream during a steamy July day in Pennsylvania absolutely made my day. Coming up to a grill set up at a road crossing seemed sent by God. I still feel that it is a beautiful thing.
At the same time, its increasing presence is undoubtedly changing the experience. While it will it never lose its intrinsically wild character, the trail does seem to becoming less so. It may be making the trail a bit softer, but that does not mean it is bad. Hike the AT for the beauty of the landscape and the comraderie of the community, and move on to some other long distance hike if you want deep wilderness (Continental Divide Trail comes to mind).
I will never turn a cold coke by a road crossing on a hot trail day!

Peaks
07-08-2005, 07:26
There are two types of trail magic.

First, there is the spontanous type. Examples are giving a ride to someone with their thumb out. I see nothing wrong with that, and encourage more people to do it. After all, it's a long walk into (and out of) places like Rangely.

Second, there is the planned. Examples are hiker feeds. The problem with this type of "magic" is that it benefits only a select few, namely those who just happen to be in the area at the time. Frankly, if someone wants to truely help hikers, then volunteer with a local trail club. That way, all of us can benefit.

dougmeredith
07-08-2005, 08:29
These days, I usually don't identify myself as a 2000-miler (to other hikers) unless specifically asked. It changes the whole tenor of the conversation, and frankly, it ain't about me.
Awesome and selfless approach!

Doug

kyhipo
07-08-2005, 08:35
Boy i tell ya God Bless trail magic and i think its honestly ashame of people complaining against it most trail angels are doing it because they want too!.I can remember several as desperato and others allong my journeys I have accepted gifts from them and have not I dont like it when they have a sighn up for thru hikers only,but heck i guess its their call aint it:D ky

MacGyver2005
07-08-2005, 10:28
I hope I don't come across as crass, but get over it. It seems like this is just another drama topic. If people want to do Trail Magic, why should there be any issue with that? Sure, the arguement can be made that instead of dropping goodies or all out cooking that trail maintainence or other trail-related work would be a better use of that time. But who are we to tell them what to do?!? If that's what what they want to do, leave them alone and let's not make an issue out of it.

As for hikers expecting it, that's something we cannot control. That is like saying hikers expect to get a hitch going into town and throwing a fit when it doesn't happen. That doesn't mean that we should have a topic on whether or not people should stopping giving hitches to hikers! It simply means that there are people on the trail that just expect too much, and aren't really out there for the trail itself. Trail Magic can be a great uplift to a hiker, no matter how big or small.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA -->ME 2005

Spirit Walker
07-08-2005, 10:33
When I thruhiked the AT I really appreciated the trail magic I received. Most of it was spontaneous and small scale - a dayhiker pulling fruit or a coke or a cookie out of their pack - and I really appreciated it. The next couple of years we tried to 'give back' by bringing coolers of sodas and beer and juice to the trail and offering slackpacks. We found that many of the hikers said they had gotten so much trail magic that it was no big deal any more. They said thank you, but it was obviously not really magic for them. So we decided to put our time and energy into trail work, which is even less appreciated by most, but really does benefit hikers, and not just those who happen to run into us on the right day.

One thing about the organized feeds is that you end up with people rushing ahead or hitching to take advantage of them. We saw that with the weekly potlucks at DWG, and thought how ridiculous it was to allow a meal to determine your hike. But as others have said, a lot of folks are out to party, not to hike.

If I were to hike the AT again, I wouldn't turn down trail magic if I ran into it - always encourage people's generous impulses, they may not come again - but I also wouldn't let word of a feed determine how fast or far I hiked in order to participate. YMMV

jackiebolen
07-08-2005, 10:44
When I was on the trail, I loved trail magic. So many nice people helped me out in a lot of ways. Thank you!

But just a thought for the trail angels who spend A LOT of money each year doing stuff...could that money perhaps be better spent on environmental conservation/trail maintenance/feeding the poor people in your own city? I wonder why people spend so much money feeding/helping middle class people who can afford to take 6 months off work. Anyway, just a thought.

I am totally for those kind people who pick up hitchhikers, or invite you to their house for a meal once in a while, that's just being hospitable.

SGT Rock
07-08-2005, 10:52
Think about the "spontaneous clause" - if you are on the trail and walk up to a crossing not expecting anything but a road and there is a group feeding hikers - then to your perspective it is a spontaneous thing. Just a thought anyway...

My personal thoughts, if someone wants to feed hikers then let them. Sort of asinine to even debate the idea if someone should be allowed to do it because they are going to do it no matter how people on the Internet feel about it. Hikers can either accept it or just hike through and not accept it, I've never heard of a feed set up where people were forced at gunpoint to accept the food. The only problem I have ever had with this sort of thing is people that want to discriminate between hiker types with these things (i.e. day hikers, section hikers, thru-hikers, etc.), that sort of elitism is just poor manners IMO. When you set a table you feed who shows up out of good manners as a host.

rickb
07-08-2005, 11:12
"Sort of asinine to even debate the idea if someone should be allowed to do it"

No argument here.

But has anyone in this thread suggested that?

Perhaps I am too hung up on the word "allowed", or as McGyver said "let them".

I do think that our individual decisions on how and where we offer Trail Magic (or not) can affect "the Trail". Not so much as an individual event, but when considered in the context of everyone else's choices.

I can say that I think is its good that so many of of us are shy and have poor self esteme (and so assume no one wants to have anything to do with us), other wise it would get really crowded out there ;-). You won't be seeing me, that's for sure. Or, more accurately, if you do you won't know it.

Rick B

Footslogger
07-08-2005, 11:29
I experienced so many random acts of kindness during my thru in 2003 that it's hard to recall them all. I really appreciated the occasional cache of water at a road crossing or cold soda but I wasn't a very fast hiker so most of that stuff was gone when I hiked by. What I admire and remember the most were the serendipitous encounters with people along the trail (non-hikers) who would reach out in generosity and offer me something ...be it a phone number for later use if I needed it or an overnight at their home. Once I was sitting in a small diner in NY eating my breakfast. An elderly couple came in and asked if they could join me. We had a nice conversation and they said they needed to leave. We said our goodbyes and out the door they went. When I finished my breakfast (fantastic omlet, by the way) I went to the counter to pay, only to be told that the elderly couple had paid for my breakfast.

I'm not sure I would ever "plan" to sit at a road crossing and hand out goodies, but I do know that based on my experience it would be an honor and a pleasure to extend a kindness to another hiker similar to that which was shown me in 2003. It's a little tougher out here in Wyoming since the hiker volume does not come close to that of the AT. However, the wife and I were on our way to Yellowstone last weekend and spotted 2 hikers along the side of the road. I stopped the car and got out to chat. After introductions we learned that they were CDT thru hikers. It felt good to be able to offer them food, water etc. Amazingly though, the only thing that each of them would take was a cold bottle of water but you could tell by the expression on their faces that just the fact that we stopped to talk meant a great deal to both of them.

'Slogger

A-Train
07-08-2005, 12:03
Some good points here. Let me be more specific about two things that bother me, that I see regularly.

One, being that people leave coolers, whether they be styrofoam or plastic, leave goodies and drinks, and then abandon the cooler. Thus is becomes trash for someone else to pack out. The same can be said for dumping food at shelters, and having others pack out the garbage.

The second being thru-hiker specific magic, as others have mentioned. I've seen things that have "thru-hikers only" on them and this doesn't seem right. When you leave something at a shelter, on the trail or at a road crossing, you kind of lose your right to say who it goes to. And it creates a disparity and seperation between thru-hikers and weekenders. We need to come together more in general, not find ways to isolate groups.

weary
07-08-2005, 12:07
There's been a lot of discussion lately about the phenomenon of Trail Magic and organized Hiker Feeds and events. Some folks, including some very well-known folks in the hiker community are dead set against it, or at the very least, think there's too much of it.

Your thoughts, please. Is Trail Magic getting out of hand? Is it interfering with or causing damage to anyone's hike? Are today's hikers getting greedy, expectant, and spoiled because there's too much of it? Are critics of today's magic and large hiker feeds raising a legitimate point, or are they merely crabby and jealous because such things didn't exist when they were hiking? Should Trail magic be limited to towns or trailheads, or is it OK anywhere on the Trail?

Any and all comments are welcome.
People obviously are free to do whatever they want. But I suspect much "trail magic" has more to do with the egos of the purveyors of the magic than a desire to "help" thru hikers. It strikes me as a way for some to participate vicariously in a thru hike without actually having to deal with the real trail.

The trail has many legitimate needs. Offering free food to folks with the money and leisure to take a six month walking vacations strikes me as the least of these.

For instance, MATC is facing a severe shortage of volunteers for it's trail crews this summer. The following is an excerpt from the Maine club's June newsletter:

"Currently the Maine Trail Crew is facing a volunteer crisis with only 26 of 82 spots filled.

The Maine Trail Crew needs volunteers for constructing and maintaining the Appalachian trail in Maine. Generally the crews work from Saturday to Wednesday, but weekend volunteers are always welcome. Food and lodging is provided. Sites for this season include the Firewarden’s trail on Bigelow, White Cap, and Old Blue.

The Maine crew, sponsored by the Maine Appalachian Trail Club, ATC, the National Park Service, and the Student Conservation Association (SCA), is based in central Maine. Projects are located along 280 miles of the A.T. in the scenic Maine woods, and most involve reconstruction and rock work. The crew achieves great success through a combination of SCA interns and week-long volunteers. Projects are supervised by crew leaders under the direction of modern trail-work pioneer Lester Kenway.
MATC’s Maine Trail Crew needs you.

Join the crew and work on Maine’s Appalachian Trail to help preserve this precious resource for future generations of hikers. An enthusiastic staff awaits your arrival and is looking forward to building trail with you.
These are the trips scheduled for the summer of 2005:
• July 16 Difficult trip to Old Blue and White Cap
• July 23 Difficult trip to White Cap and West Baldpate
• July 30 Difficult trip to White Cap and West Baldpate
• August 6 Difficult trip to White Cap and West Baldpate

In 1991, the MATC organized a Footpath Recovery Crew (FORCE) to repair, reconstruct and rehabilitate damaged places along the Appalachian Trail in Maine (MATC changed the crew’s name in Sept. 2000 to the Maine Trail Crew).

Each summer, volunteers from other parts of the country join with MATC members to work on the Trail. Directed by experienced crew leaders, volunteers receive food and lodging at a base camp in exchange for their labor.

Come out and learn the correct and safe usage of our various trail construction tools and learn valuable trail construction and reconstruction techniques.

Come join us and cool off in some of Maine’s most beautiful lakes and streams after a hard day of work. Share your camp with the resident moose population and fall asleep to a loon’s enchanting serenade. Experience the Maine summer at its best!

The Maine Trail Crew is based on the high ridgeline of an old farmstead outside of Dexter, with views out more than 50 miles. The crew stays in wall tents at the base camp when it is not out on the A.T. A contemporary lodge serves as a kitchen and dining and social area. Showers and laundry are available in town; swimming is available at a nearby public beach.

This year, our weekly trail crew season runs from June through mid-August, Saturday to Wednesday, to allow members of the MATC to work with the crew on weekends.

Crew off-days, Thursday and Friday, are for recreation, preparations for the next work week, and rest. The Maine Trail Crew works on heavy-duty trail construction and reconstruction projects from Grafton Notch to Katahdin in Maine, some of the most rugged and remote terrain on the entire Appalachian Trail.

On recent projects, the Maine Trail Crew has constructed rock steps and waterbars on the south sides of Saddleback and Barren Mountains; installed hundreds of feet of cedar bog bridges near Gulf Hagas; quarried, cut, and placed more than 100 rock steps on the Hunt (Appalachian) Trail near Katahdin; dug a new sidehill trail in Horseshoe Canyon; and created a safer ascent out of (or descent into) Orbeton Stream Canyon with 40 rock steps, including three carved into bedrock with the power drill. "

Weary

SGT Rock
07-08-2005, 12:14
I think the real trail magic is something like Weary is pointing out and most folks really take for granted and that is the maintenance of the trail. The shame of it all is trail maintenance, while it is hard work, is very rewarding and the fellowship with other like minded people is excellent. I think if more hikers ever took the time to experience it and the word spread about it, problems like this would disappear.

SGT Rock
07-08-2005, 12:19
"Sort of asinine to even debate the idea if someone should be allowed to do it"

No argument here.

But has anyone in this thread suggested that? Not here, well, not here yet. But the idea has been said before in other discussions about this topic or when other threads get around to this topic. This isn't the first time the idea has been discussed on the Internet, so I guess I got the thought out ahead of someone mentioning the idea here.

Lone Wolf
07-08-2005, 12:25
Thoughts on magic? Very little of it happens on the AT nowadays. Planned feeds, coolers at trailheads, etc. are a dime-a-dozen. Like hostels, they're everywhere. I don't accept or participate in "magic" anymore. Used to. Back in "the day" trail magic was infrequent and highly appreciated. Today it's expected.

Footslogger
07-08-2005, 12:58
Today it's expected.===========================
Well ...not by everyone. There were days on my thru in 2003 when I fantasized about a cold beer, fried chicken and ice cream sitting along side the road when I crossed, but I sure didn't really expect it to be there and I wasn't disappointed when it wasn't.

'Slogger

Skyline
07-08-2005, 13:56
I've received my share of Magic, and I've given my share of Magic. Not once did I ever witness anyone object to it in the Real World on the AT.

On the internet, it's another story. There are people on the internet who need to be a contrarian about nearly every topic that is raised. Some of them don't actually hike much.

So long as hikers don't get to the point that they seriously expect Trail Magic--like a spoiled child expects ice cream every time he or she goes for a ride in Daddy's car--then I see no downside to Trail Magic, whether spontaneous or pre-planned. Thankfully, I haven't actually witnessed very much of this kind of expectation, but I've read about it--you guessed it, on the internet.

Blue Jay
07-08-2005, 14:39
I see no downside to Trail Magic, whether spontaneous or pre-planned. Thankfully, I haven't actually witnessed very much of this kind of expectation, but I've read about it--you guessed it, on the internet.

I agree, I have never heard of or witnessed a single thru expecting Trail Majic. I have read about it, again you guessed it, on the internet.

TakeABreak
07-08-2005, 14:50
I think WEARY, made a good point along with some others here about trail magic and trail maintenace. I have done trail magic, trail maintenance and volunteered at the ATC for 2 weeks. One day when I can, I plan to spend time on a trail crew, volunteer at the ATC and do some magic again.

I just wanted ot add to my original comment above, that about the two ladies I met, a few days later I got to thinking about it and while doing a days trail maintenance with the Nantahala group, I mention it to some of the other guys, no one said a word until I was and done talking. Then three guys looked at me and said, that is the two ladies we were talking about this morning before you got to the club house(believe it is nothing spectaclular( the club house that is)).

From what they said, two of guys were hiking together one day and came across the same two ladies, they pulled a similar stunt accept they were hinting how it would be nice to get a ride a somehwere to take a shower and have pizza (something to that affect, it was after all 4 years ago). The two guys inquired about how much food they had and stuff, they had plenty as it turned out and were not in need of anything and had, had a shower only a couple of days before.

The third guy was hiking alone like me and said they were pulling the same stunt on him as the other two. He too inquired and they were not truely in need of anything. There is nothing wrong with trail magic, but people who YOGI and expect others to go out of there way, when they are not truely in need of anything irritate the crap out of me. I want to point that it has been four years, and I may have some of the details wrong, but the point is still the same.

What I am trying to say is, trail magic is fine but I think it should be spontaneous, and not an organized feed.

I probably shuttled at least 50 or more people either to Franklin, NC from Winding Stair Gap or vice versa, on trail maintenace days or when out for a hike. And did it Because I felt to compelled to do so and because others had showed be similar kindness on my hike and I wanted to give back.

I have left canned food, a plastic jar with band aids, candles and matches and such in shelters, especially in the winter months. About a week or so Later I returned to make sure there was no garbage left behind and if there was, I picked it and carried it out. Mostly what I found was a thank you note from a hiker who was in need when they came across I had left them.

I too have received trail magic on the trail, and thanked them and God, for I what I received. Because each time I received trail magic I was truely in need.

TOW
07-08-2005, 15:23
i think there is just enough trail magic out there to keep one perked and going, i am very grateful for what came my way when i was out there, let's just leave it alone and whatever we do and when we can, then be a trail angel......

rickb
07-08-2005, 16:41
For me, its not a question of whether or not an Angel's energies could be "better" employed doing Trail work, playing with one's kids, or curing cancer.

That's none of my business.

For me, its a question of whether or not one's presence somehow decreases the AT experience.

The answer to that is not so clear cut. So many factors come into play.

Rick B

VAMTNHIKER
07-09-2005, 10:31
I agree with Sarge... it is a matter of perspective...


have to laugh, as two weeks ago the Scout group I had the priviledge to be with between Punchbowl and Brown Mt, was the giver and receiver.

I wanted to thank the couple who hikes so much (she just had a kidney transplant... if I can be as spry as she is at her age, so soon after surgery!!), who first told us of a better cooling off spot on the trail another mile up towards Brown Mt shelter.... but also showed up at the shelter later with a birthday cake and treats for the scouts! The birthday boy was actually a younger brother... a Cub Scout who did better than some of the boy scout "backpacking first timers". The thoughtfullness was truly appreciated by all!

Then the remainder of the cake and the Moon Pies (our original dessert) were greatly (!) appreciated by the two section and thru hikers tenting/hammocking at the shelter (I apologize... I did not write down their names).

I have been out on the trail with a variety of scout units... sometimes food was shared, sometimes not... but in all cases I never found anyone hinting or expecting anything; all were very outgoing with the boys and leaders.

As a frequent weekend/short section hiker on the trail... it would not bother me at all to see items in a shelter or trail head with a sign stating please leave for thru-hikers...

...and I always stop at the shelter .. and apologize for the "youthful" noise level upon arriving... which is usually only a problem our first night out... by the second evening, they usually crash fast... once it gets dark! ::chuckle::

Smile
07-09-2005, 14:34
I don't think I can comment or offer my opinion on whether or not it is right or wrong. I can say from personal recent experience on a 31 day section from HF NOBO that:

Trail Magic is the unexpected "gift" along the trail intended for those who hike ( and anything floating in ICE is extra special!)

Trail Magic is NOT the girlfriend of the ThruHiker who shows up at the campground less than .1 from the road/parking lot with two coolers of beer that takes four people to haul in, consuming it while getting louder and louder till the wee hours of the a.m. while the rest of the folks are trying to sleep and then leaving bags of beer-dripping trash all over the counter of the rest room so that after our foul nights sleep we can be aroused by the stench of warm beer and moving it out of our way to do our morning sink ( WOW! AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A SINK HERE!) routine after we clear away the trash from last night's inconsiderate few who will no doubt be getting on the trail at a much later time of day than the rest of us.

That's just rude and not a whole lot of fun IMO.

Nean
07-09-2005, 20:52
Sly makes a great point. There's a difference between Trail magic and Trail kindness. Seems no one has a problem- really, w/ Magic/random acts of kindness. A few don't seem to care for the dreaded planned acts of kindness, or as Wingfoot calls it, trail catering. You know it scares me when you think like Dan, Lone Wolf. I used to think that way 'bout shelters too. Too many, etc., etc. But they aren't going away, its part of the AT experience.

SGT Rock makes another point: spontaneous or planned depends on your perspective. I've never had a problem with Magic or Kindness. For some the problem seems to be: it ain't the same as the good ol' days, todays hikers are spoiled and it ruins their [wilderness?] experience. Sometimes we all long for the good ol' days- but thats a dream. The world changes and so has the trail. I just cant ASSUME that todays hikers are worst off because of too much kindness (or shelters). From their point of veiw- the one that matters for them, they might think these are the good ol' days. And they'd be right.

I've meet a few hikers who seem to expect or yogi. That isn't from too much kindness- rather how they were raised, IMO. The other side of that negative coin is the elitist trail angel? who only caters to so called thru-hikers. Yes, prejudice and discrimination is their right, but does that make it right? It happened to us last fall. I was raised different.

Town/hostel/party/bar hoppin yellow-blazers have been round as long as I remember and according to the late, great Earl- longer than that;). There are party people who (might) hike and people who hike that might enjoy the party. If I were on the trail and a few days from Billville this weekend would I go? Heck yea! Harm? Different styles, reasons, people. I used to think some poeple were on the trail for the wrong reasons. Now I realize my reasons aren't better; they're different and I value them more. Is kindness the problem or is it the automobile?

We all have an ego, its how we feed it that define us. Helping others and having a good time doing it sounds ok to me. I don't think giving Little Debbies out makes me a saint, but I do enjoy it. I'm not the least bit ashamed of hiking a triple crown for charity but you won't catch me sending unsolicited, framed, autographed pictures of myself to hostels along the trails announcing it.

Other things I could be doing? Everyday, but not helping out someone because they can afford (or sacrificed) to hike -IMHO, misses the point. All the money in the world won't buy you a soda on the trail, but if I see you out while I'm working on my section you might get one; 'less it be ruinin' your... :eek: experience. BTW, maintaining the trail is a different animal than helping- and interacting w/, the people on it. Yes its great, feeds my ego too! I'd like to think I've done more "spontaneous" trail work than most planned crews. Maybe if the MATC would put on a couple of hiker feeds they would enlist more volunteers. He may not actually feed them, but kindness sure seems to work for Bob Peoples! Who wants to spend 2-3days with a grumpy ol' angel hater? I'm trying to make a point and not be personal Weary. I'd work with you anyday. Thank you for doing what you do.

And those abandoned coolers? Usually less than 100 yards from the road. One act of kindness deserves another. Pack it out-feed the ego :)

Live, Laugh, Learn, Love, LETITBE

SGT Rock
07-10-2005, 00:26
How about this:

Treat the thru-hikers that over-yogi like fed bears. Tranquilize them and re-locate them to the PCT. When they wake up they will have to figure out where they are and how to survive like wild hikers of the past :D

fiddlehead
07-10-2005, 02:17
Trail Magic is fun for both sides.
Maybe even more fun for the giver than the reciever.
Please, if you don't like it, walk on by. Other's do like it.
As for the organized bigger feeds. That's just a nice big party. Again, if you are not into partying, keep going.

weary
07-10-2005, 08:34
Trail Magic is fun for both sides.
Maybe even more fun for the giver than the reciever.
Please, if you don't like it, walk on by. Other's do like it.
As for the organized bigger feeds. That's just a nice big party. Again, if you are not into partying, keep going.
It depends on where the party is being held. Towns are harmless. Parties on the trail itself destroy the sense of remoteness that some hikers, at least, are seeking.

Weary

Blue Jay
07-10-2005, 08:46
How about this:

Treat the thru-hikers that over-yogi like fed bears. Tranquilize them and re-locate them to the PCT. When they wake up they will have to figure out where they are and how to survive like wild hikers of the past :D

It's great to see the quality of humor has increased on this site. Only on the internet would a term like over-yogi be invented. It would make a great trail name.

MacGyver2005
07-10-2005, 11:05
It depends on where the party is being held. Towns are harmless. Parties on the trail itself destroy the sense of remoteness that some hikers, at least, are seeking.

Weary
I am sure walking past a group with food for hikers (which is commonly seen in Shenandoah National Park, without it being for hikers) is a lot worse in disturbing the remoteness than walking an overpass over an interstate. :-? To me there is little different between a group-feed and coming across a shelter with a good handful of people there, or better yet a sectioning group.

As for the fact that people could better us their time, in this instance helping the trail itself as opposed to doing magic, that philosophy really can be applied to just about anything in life. How about this: instead of playing on some forum wasting our time discussing something we have no real control over, why don't we all go out and do something more productive and help the trail?

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME 2005

Belew
07-10-2005, 12:34
I don't see what the big deal is. Pass it by if you have a problem with it.
I can tell you this. A 24 oz. Budweiser Select about 2 miles before town is a nice change of pace. Trail magic kicks ass and makes me walk funny

ATSeamstress
07-10-2005, 14:19
I just got back from a two-week stint on the AT and had a wonderful experience from someone providing "trail magic". I had hiked my longest day of the trip, in 93* heat. I was pretty beat when I showed up at Bear's Den Hostel. After a shower and changing into some clean clothes, I laid down on the bed to relax, when someone stuck their head into the women's dorm and announced, "It's dinner time!" Dinner? As it turned out, a thru-hiker named Cycle Hiker was staying there and his family had come in for a visit. They put on a huge feast for him and whoever was staying there that night. It consisted of steak, sausage, asparagus, green beans, mashed potatoes, fried potatoes, lemonade, mint tea, magic bars, Rice Krispie sandwiches, and three different kinds of cookies. There were mostly thru-hikers there and I believe all of them thoroughly enjoyed that meal. For me, as a shy person, it was a wonderful way for me to meet the other people staying there. In the morning, the family provided breakfast as well.

I had come prepared, with plenty of food. I didn't expect anything but a shower and a soft bed. But that stay at Bear's Den turned out to be one of the highlights of my trip.

I had two other TM experiences on that same trip. Both were near road crossings where I expected to see civilization anyway, and both provided a trash bag for the trash. I participated, and it didn't bother me in the least. Whether I will have a different opinion as a thru-hiker (in 2009) remains to be seen.

weary
07-10-2005, 14:30
How about this:

Treat the thru-hikers that over-yogi like fed bears. Tranquilize them and re-locate them to the PCT. When they wake up they will have to figure out where they are and how to survive like wild hikers of the past :D
Bump and Margaret Smith, partime Maine farmers, were pioneer southbounders in 1970.

His slide show at the University of Maine in Orono after he came home was one of the most unconventional and fascinating I've ever seen dealing with the AT.

Anyway, Bump referred to everyone he met on the trail during his walk to Georgia as "out of staters" or tourists. But he added, "they were all nice people. They would give you anything, candy bars, food, anything. They treated us just like we were bears!"

Weary

Ridge
07-10-2005, 15:00
The times me or my husband have experienced TM was usually planned by other hikers friends/family who was meeting them at a trailhead. Weekend hikers will usually carry too much food and will leave it with other long distance hikers, creating a type of magic. I don't believe any thruhiker will ever expect magic on the trail. The only exception of expectations has been brought on by TrailDays in Damascus. Thru hikers have gotten to expect repairs/gifts/food/drink from vendors during this time. I know my husband expects it. This is sort of like feeding the bears for one week out of the year. Or is it xmas that comes in May and Damascus is the North Pole? Hope Trail Days continues.

rocket04
07-10-2005, 15:55
I like what A-Train said (as is often the case) and share his position on the issue, at least as far as my personal preference goes. The best magic I got was the non-planned, spontaneous kind. Like a man giving me some KFC by Watauga Lake as I was getting ready to cook some ramen. Awesome memories...

wacocelt
07-10-2005, 19:49
I've heard Thru-attepters moaning and groaning about wanting for some trail magic in thier first and second day. That's a load of crap.

Jester2000
07-12-2005, 23:09
Parties on the trail itself destroy the sense of remoteness that some hikers, at least, are seeking.

Weary

Oh, I don't know, Weary. I f their sense of remoteness wasn't destroyed by the railroad tracks in the Hundred Mile Wilderness, or the buildings and cars on Mt. Washington, or the ski lifts and warming huts in Vermont, or the tower on Greylock in Mass., or the manhole cover that was (briefly) on the trail in New York or . . .should I go on? Yes? The water truck that used to be in that field in New Jersey, the radio towers on the ridgelines in PA, the milk bottle Washington Monument in Maryland. . .I'll stop now and let a Southerner take over. . .

My point, if I have one, is that if you're trying to sense remoteness, you should probably give a thought to going somewhere remote. NONE of the places I mentioned are in towns.

If you can bend your willing suspension of disbelief into thinking you're out in the middle of nowhere after seeing all that, I think a cooler in the middle of the trail (where you might not expect it -- wouldn't that be "magical?") shouldn't be too hard to erase from your mind, after you pass it on a 95 degree day near Lehigh Gap without taking an ice cold drink from it (yeah, right).

(Note to all: I nobo'd, but put the sights in that order in honor of Bust Ace, SOBO extraordinaire from '73)

Jester2000
07-12-2005, 23:16
By the by, I don't consider Feeds "magic." I consider them nice, and fun, but not particularly magical. On Monday Jack and I decided to take the truck to the trailhead parking lot north of Rauch Gap Shelter with a cooler of soda, as it was hot and that section seems kinda dry. The folks we met that day thought it was sorta magical.

And a final note: I don't know of any hikers who hitched forward to come to our feed who did not get a ride back from whence they came on Sunday. I could be wrong, but we lined up an awful lot of shuttles for folks. So for you nervous nellies that fear that Feeds encourage people to skip, know that the kind of people who skip don't actually need any encouragement.

Sly
07-13-2005, 01:11
Any one know if Rat still does the Brown Gap feed? It's around Trailfest. I haven't heard anything since Hobocentral went kaput.

Maybe Billville can pick up the slack!

I went one year and had a lot of fun. A few trail legends were there including a couple here on Whiteblaze.

Sly
07-13-2005, 01:22
Yo Jester, Don't let anyone spoil your party! Billville's cool :cool: (bumpersticker), and anyone that's been there knows that.

Don't like the Monday morning armchair generals get to you!

weary
07-13-2005, 09:34
Oh, I don't know, Weary. I f their sense of remoteness wasn't destroyed by the railroad tracks in the Hundred Mile Wilderness, or the buildings and cars on Mt. Washington, or the ski lifts and warming huts in Vermont, or the tower on Greylock in Mass., or the manhole cover that was (briefly) on the trail in New York or . . .should I go on? Yes? The water truck that used to be in that field in New Jersey, the radio towers on the ridgelines in PA, the milk bottle Washington Monument in Maryland. . .I'll stop now and let a Southerner take over. . .

My point, if I have one, is that if you're trying to sense remoteness, you should probably give a thought to going somewhere remote. NONE of the places I mentioned are in towns....
My point, and I have one, is that the trail is the trail. The fact that few if any sections of the trail qualify as wilderness is not a logical reason to further reduce the sense of remoteness by adding parties at the shelters to mix.

I spend much of my time these days working to protect the sense of wildness that the trail -- especially in Maine -- provides. That's why we founded the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust -- to provide buffers around a narrow trail corridor now that most of the big landowner trail neighbors have sold their holdings to developers.

Are you saying that because a railroad crosses the trail, trains and a road summits Washington and a tower exists on Greylock that this is a wasted effort?

Weary www.matlt.org

dougmeredith
07-13-2005, 10:20
My point, and I have one, is that the trail is the trail. The fact that few if any sections of the trail qualify as wilderness is not a logical reason to further reduce the sense of remoteness by adding parties at the shelters to mix.
Obnoxious behavior is obnoxious in the woods or in the city. I think you should object to it as such. It is disingenuous to claim that this somehow reduces the remoteness of the trail.

Doug

Nean
07-13-2005, 11:00
There are parties at shelters? Well I missed that part (y)....or did I? Anyways, I love the sense of remoteness the lack of roads in Maine provide. I lived off one those roads a couple of years ago, LOVE Maine. As an AT9 sobo I credit Maine with hooking me on LDH. Your efforts are not wasted Weary! BTW, last fall during our Katahdin to H.F. attempt we came upon a "party" for "thru-hikers" in the 100m wilderness. We wern't allowed at the SITE, much less a soda:( I'll join you, LW, and Dan if this is what yall talkin bout. Also, what are your veiws on White House Landing?

As far as rucks, feeds, reunions, gatherings, shelters, kindness, magic, towns and other little reminders of civilization along the way, this is the AT, stardate 2005:welcome
I'm told its time to go, more later:eek: ?!?!

rickb
07-13-2005, 11:54
It is disingenuous to claim that this somehow reduces the remoteness of the trail.

Not at all.

Would a hotdog stand at every road crossing somehow reduce the remoteness of the Trail?

If you think it would, then the discussion over the impact of magic is one of degree.

If you don't think so, then we think very much differently.

To my way of thinking the best way an individual can increase the feeling of remotness of the trail would be to resupply a bit less often. Of course there would be a price to be paid for doing that. That price is easy to see, the benefits not so obvious.

Rick B

dougmeredith
07-13-2005, 12:18
I view it this way:

If someone is doing something illegal or rude, I have a right to complain. Otherwise they are simply using the trail too. If their legitimate use of the trail reduces my enjoyment then it is up to me to put up with it or find a new trail.

Extreme example: If too many people on the trial ruins it for me, it doesn't make sense for me to demand that others stay away.

There will always be people who have their hiking enjoyment decreased because of the presence/action/physical appearance/race of others. My concern is that some people tend to classify anything that reduces their enjoyment as rude or inappropriate. Take shelter parties as an example. A party is a group of people. Do we object to the presence of these people or is it their actions? If you don't like their presence, too bad. If their actions are truly inappropriate, then you have a legitimate complaint.

Doug

Cookerhiker
07-13-2005, 16:43
I've both given and received Trail Magic. When planning some TM last year, I expressed my thoughts in my Trail Journal reprinted below:

“ '...It is more blessed to give than receive.' Acts 20:35
Trail Angel. Trail Magic. An angel is a messenger of God. At first glance, a serious notion like this may seem preposterous (and presumptuous) when applied to helping people hiking the Appalachian Trail. But is it really? When the Gospels tell us that God will provide, isn’t He doing so by using us ordinary people to do His work? So isn't it possible that we as Angels are God's instruments in providing for those on the Trail by dispensing Trail Magic. Trail Magic is the synthesis created by the complementary meshing of two needs: the hiker’s need to receive and the angel’s need to give. The hiker receives something tangible, practical and useful while the angel receives something perhaps more pleasing: the gratitude, the warmth, the appreciation, indeed even the love bestowed by the recipient. And both are comforted and invigorated by knowing that - in a chaotic, confusing, conflict-ridden world - people can perform caring acts for their fellow beings, even when they are complete strangers or have only known each other for a few months. "

I generally agree that the more unexpected and anonymous the TM, the more "magical" it is. The TM I dispensed last year was semi-expected by the recipients who were friends of mine. But this year, I provided home-cooked meals in Shenandoah NP to 3 strangers picked out at random and found the experience quite rewarding.

weary
07-13-2005, 21:13
I've both given and received Trail Magic. When planning some TM last year, I expressed my thoughts in my Trail Journal reprinted below:

“ '...It is more blessed to give than receive.' Acts 20:35
Trail Angel. Trail Magic. An angel is a messenger of God. At first glance, a serious notion like this may seem preposterous (and presumptuous) when applied to helping people hiking the Appalachian Trail. But is it really? When the Gospels tell us that God will provide, isn’t He doing so by using us ordinary people to do His work? So isn't it possible that we as Angels are God's instruments in providing for those on the Trail by dispensing Trail Magic....".
give me just a smidgeon of evidence that God interferes in important things -- like maybe the millions slaughtered by the Germans in WW II, or the millions slaughtered in religious, genosiadal, and philosophical wars since -- and I might be persuaded that your argument is other than silly -- or perhaps, simply, ignorant, or misguided.

Weary

Jester2000
07-13-2005, 21:59
. . .by adding parties at the shelters to mix.


. . .Are you saying that because a railroad crosses the trail, trains and a road summits Washington and a tower exists on Greylock that this is a wasted effort?

Weary www.matlt.org

Hmmm. Well, I don't recall saying or writing anywhere that it would be a good idea to have parties at a shelter. I could be wrong. In fact, I shy away from shelters close to road crossings on the off chance that locals might choose that spot to do so, particularly if it's a weekend.

Similarly, I have never suggested that working on the development of a wide corridor for the trail is a wasted effort. But you know I wasn't suggesting that, just as you know that I didn't mention having parties at a shelter in my posts.

What I did suggest was that a cooler on the trail is a miniscule blight on the wilderness experience compared to those other things, that unlike those other things it might just benefit a hiker in need, and that you can ignore a cooler if you want. But if you don't feel there's any way to argue against what I've actually suggested, I guess we could talk about other things that have no relation to my statements. You know, if that's what you want to do.

Cookerhiker
07-13-2005, 22:35
give me just a smidgeon of evidence that God interferes in important things -- like maybe the millions slaughtered by the Germans in WW II, or the millions slaughtered in religious, genosiadal, and philosophical wars since -- and I might be persuaded that your argument is other than silly -- or perhaps, simply, ignorant, or misguided.

Weary
Weary thanks for reading my post. No, I certainly can't give you the type of "evidence" you're seeking and I certainly can't explain why terrible evil things happen in the world - that's an age-old question. It's particularly outrageous that many such tragedies - the Crusades, Inquisition, slaughter of Western Hemisphere natives to name a few examples and we could come up with more modern examples as well - have been perpetrated by villains who considered themselves as doing God's will.

Your points are at the macro level and I'm at the micro level. I'm merely trying to point out that faith motivates many individuals to perform acts of service and kindness (such as Trail Magic) as their way of living and practicing their faith. Of course not all Trail Angels are motivated this way - perhaps the overwhelming majority are not.

But some of us are.

I'm hiking Maine next month. Maybe I'll see you on the Trail.

bfitz
07-13-2005, 23:31
Um...some of my funnest parties ever have been at shelters near road crossings, and, come to think of it, you were typically there, Jester! Running in to locals partying there usually either adds to the party or the drama, either is entertaining...My sense of remoteness (from the beer store) was alleviated one night when Bag o' tricks and jester showed up at Allentown shelter huffin and puffin having just carried up a (very large) cooler, full of beer and other goodies, and a rockin time was had by all! Now, I had had trail magic earlier that day, and the day before, and the day before that, and several times on the preceeding days before even that day! I got trail magic on a slackpack and got so drunk I had to yellow blaze back to town only to party my ass off and get even more trail magic the next day! I'm a trail magic junkie! It started with just a ride, or some cookies at a road crossing every now and then, but you know, unlike crack, its not just the first one thats free. TM takes so many forms that it has like that natural chaotic evolving beauty, its not just food or unexpected luxuries in the wild, untamed wilderness (ha) its like community affirming and a way to connect the new members of the community to the past and future of the community. If I had a point (and I don't) It would be that fun and people is what its all about and I feel like its a great way for me to hang out with and meet new hikers and relive a little bit o the good times of my own, and mabye make a little mischeif in the hikes of others. A lot of the beauty of the trail for me comes from the Red Mages of PA! They do magic right.

bfitz
07-13-2005, 23:45
Oh, yeah, and God has definitely sent trail magic my way. Who knows how or if God has interfered in the horrible wars or disasters of history, or how they might have turned out if (he) had not interfered, certainly many of the people who experienced things during those times feel like he was at work in their lives, but I know that when Im flowing along the right way something puts the right stuff in my path. Call it harmony with the tao or whatever you want, the great spirit is on the trail...and in trail magic!

Nean
07-14-2005, 00:47
Out of the hundreds of hikers I had the pleasure of meeting this year, 3 was the most times any of them said they'd recieved Magic. Many said my OCP-Little Debbie was the only magic in their 1st 300miles. Most said it was their 2nd and the 1st was 30min earlier so many walked right on by my place because they were still so stuffed and/or had spent too much time. Others had enjoyed FishinFreds feed. Again, magic or kindness depends on your perspective- as does "too much". Out of all those people I had to tell about a dozen: Sorry, but we need to leave a few for the other hikers. This is a problem that seems to be overblown on the web, not the trail. My perspective;).Wacocelt, those folks were offthetrail by day 5 :p

MOWGLI
07-14-2005, 08:04
Oh, yeah, and God has definitely sent trail magic my way.

Well, they say that god watches out for drunks and fools, so you're probably right.

Dainon
07-14-2005, 08:13
I don't have much experience with distance hiking, but what I've most appreciated was being able to quickly get a ride when hitchhiking. Coming off the trail at Dick's Gap and needing to get to Hiawassee, I stuck out my thumb and the very first car going by picked me up -- a minister in a new Lincoln. Small world -- his son works at a federal prison located in my city, Lexington, KY.

This Sunday, getting off the trail at Winding Stair, I had my thumb out for maybe 2 mins. before a guy stopped to give me a ride to Franklin. I didn't catch his name, but he is a retired psychologist and had done a lot of hiking -- very interesting to hear him talk.

Each time I smelled like death, was dirty, and worried that I'd never get a ride, so I really appreciated getting rides to town so quickly.

I've never come across a cooler or a hiker feed, but if I did, I don't think that I'd turn it down.

Nean
07-14-2005, 09:09
But, but, Dainon!;) What about those who think it degrades your trail experience?:p Surely you are worried- what will they think- wont your hike mean less because you were so spoiled- ??? :D I do tend to think terms like magic and trail angel get overused, but then where's the harm? :-? There's something amusing to me about debating kindness, in all its shapes and forms, as a negative.:bse I'd like to debate something really important; like the fact that there is way too much love in the world and we are going to hell (or someplace very bad) in a handbasket because of it.:dance

bfitz
07-14-2005, 10:44
Well, they say that god watches out for drunks and fools, so you're probably right.
...Yup, and he especially loves the Irish, so Im definitely right...

Here's a good story...Last year was hiking down south and found myself with a gang of hikers at overmountain shelter (you know the big barn with the beautiful view...) After waiting out a day of terrible rain and getting to know eachother in that rainy day at the shelter kinda way we began to want to make it to a memorial day party for/with hikers at the big lake down there. These particular hikers had not done much hitchiking except quickie rides into town from nearby trailheads etc. but I convinced them we could make it any distance. The fact that there were four of us also discouraged them because there was fear that we wouldn't be able to fit together in most cars etc. etc. After much cajoling I managed to get them down the gravel road where we found some locals who gave us a short ride up the road, then another truck came along and we got a little further...into the middle of nowhere. The sky began to get dark, and very few cars were coming down this wooded road. My new friends began to get discouraged and mabye a little angry with me for dragging them out here to end up camping on the side of the road in the rain. I said confidently that I had never had to wait more than 45 minutes for a ride hitchiking anywhere and that the next car to come by would stop and pick us up. Sure enough a little while later a car came up the road and stopped, although there was barely room in the compact vehicle for 4 hikers plus packs and poles. The driver got out and introduced himself...and turned out we shared the same (Irish) last name (long lost cousins?). He loaded us all into his car, took us first to subway where he bought us all lunch, but then on to our final destination wich was quite a bit out of his way.
The moral of the story...Its not that I've been spoiled or feel entitled or depend on it, its that I just know its gonna happen and I never turn down a good thing or an oppurtunity do do a good thing because it always leads to a good experience. That party at the lake was a blast and several hikers from whom those I was with had become separated were reunited, and the next day they were all together swinging on the rope swing when a pontoon boat rolled up owned by a caterer who had tons of leftovers from catering a party who invited all the hikers onto the boat and eventually back home for a feast and fun and then that same boat owner ultimately went up the trail and found them a number of times to surprise them with more trail magic and even came to trail days! Oh yeah, and at the party in the later evening lots of folks went skinny dipping and, well, you know....

StarLyte
07-14-2005, 12:44
I remember being almost out of water and on top of a mountain--I couldn't go any further because it took me longer than expected and I was real tired. It was an AT Ridgerunner that helped me out - a true Trail Angel. He had 2 liters and gave me half !
Another incident occurred at Elk Garden - I needed a shuttle into Damascus and a kind man was sitting there with his van. He asked if I wanted a soda, snack or shuttle. Very kind indeed.
I needed help twice and I'm just a small time sectioner. Imagine what a Trail angel means to thru hikers.
The hiker feeds - which are quite rare are they not - are a blessing and those involved (you know who you are) should be commended. NOT ONLY THAT - it's fun.
What's really cool is that most Trail Angels only ask for a trail story--nothing else in return.
Marsha

Yahtzee
07-14-2005, 14:09
I visit the top of Peter's Mt at Rt 225 about 3 times a week to drop off water, and if I have time, run it out to the shelter. I do it for me, without giving much thought to whether there is someone at Rt 325 with water or any pt thereafter. I like to see the smiles on the hikers faces and hear their stories. It uplifts me. It is my way of trying to pass on some of the karma I have stored in my soul from all of the "magic" I have been blessed with. I can see the other side, tho.

Think of it this way. There are now over 8000 former hikers, and that # is simply going to keep climbing. If even a small percentage of those people feel as compelled as I do to help out hikers, the # of "angels" on the trail is sure to expand. The trail on the other hand is finite. You can see where I am going with this. I believe that this topic is going to be an issue in the community for some time, for whatever that is worth.

As for me, if you're leaving Duncannon, look for me at on top of Peter's Mt. I'll be the one with the water.

Yahtzee

Jester2000
07-14-2005, 22:31
I'll try to make this story quick. I was in Mass. in 2000 and had tendonitis in my left leg so badly that I could not walk. In Great Barrington this, coupled with finding out that a friend of mine had died hiking out of Kent, pretty much knocked me off the trail. I was in pain (many kinds), low on funds, in a town I didn't know.

A couple had put a notice on the board in the outfitters -- "Hikers, if you need help, call Jon & Kathy," followed by the number. They took me in for four days, let me get healthy, and convinced me that I should hike on. Kathy is a Unitarian minister. Jon is a stand up guy. If not for the two of them, my hike would have been over.

THAT'S trail magic.

trailangelmary
07-15-2005, 05:13
When I first started doing things for hikers 5 years ago, I did not know the terms trail magic or trail angel. I just did things that I thought would help the hikers with the journey. Bananas for potassium was a big thing that first year. I did not find out till the second season of doing things for hikers that I was considered a trail angel when someone called me Trail Angel Mary.
But to get to the point, every year there are hikers that tell me that they were very seriously considering quitting but the kindnesses of a feed, a free place to stay, or a fun time in Duncannon by me or any other of the many trail angels in this area, gave them the boost to continue.
Some of the more spontaneous trail magic as told in some of the stories above are more magical than others. However, all of us that are out there communicating with and doing a kindness for a long distance hiker, may have made a difference in a hikers journey. And that is my reason to continue with kindnesses and assists to hikers that cross my path in Duncannon.
May the presence of God watch over all hikers!

Smile
07-15-2005, 12:11
I like the bananas/potassium thing - great idea! Came across lots of trail magic this past month, and usually just enjoyed the ice/cold water....soda dehydrates.

Uh oh, I hope no one thinks I am suggesting or complaining about existing magic - it's all good, and a nice surprise to meet a van with folks in it at a road crossing, even if just to say hello and how's it going........wish I knew who the folks were that I met this year, and who left lots of goodies in the woods.....!

dougmeredith
07-15-2005, 12:45
soda dehydrates.
I don't believe there is anything about carbonation that would cause dehydration. Some people try and avoid caffeinated beverages, but from what I understand even drinking a Coke results in a net gain in hydration. Just not as great a gain as the same volume of water.

Doug

ps. Sorry to totally ignore your point and nit-pick on a passing comment but I have to be me. :)

Jester2000
07-16-2005, 16:50
Um...some of my funnest parties ever have been at shelters near road crossings, and, come to think of it, you were typically there, Jester! ...My sense of remoteness (from the beer store) was alleviated one night when Bag o' tricks and jester showed up at Allentown shelter huffin and puffin having just carried up a (very large) cooler, full of beer and other goodies, and a rockin time was had by all! . . .A lot of the beauty of the trail for me comes from the Red Mages of PA! They do magic right.

Dude, I never said I wasn't involved in a shelter party, only that I never said that it was a good idea, and generally I think it's not. The times I have been with you in a shelter, such as Allentown, it was because I knew ALL of the people who would be at that shelter, and I knew you would appreciate a visit. In addition, we packed out our trash and all the other trash there (except for the hiker trash), which many who show up at shelters do not do.

I DO have a problem with showing up and carrying on in a shelter where there may be others who want to sleep after a long day, others who don't drink, or others who simply don't want that kind of scene away from town.

I would never say no to a cold beer after a hot day when I'm hiking, but I know that that's not the way everyone rolls. And I respect that.

eric_plano
08-19-2005, 22:03
This year I only made it to Clingmans Dome but did experience what I feel was magic. Coming into Unicoi Gap Terrapin and I (No Legs) met a trail maintainer and had a nice conversation. I think we definitely expressed our appreciation for how well kept the trail was. When we reached Unicoi we couldn't hitch a ride for the life of us. 30 minutes later he and his wife showed up and gave us a ride in their immaculately clean car :)

At Rock Gap Shelter 4 guys from UNC Chapel Hill made steaks, corn and potatoes for the 3 of us there. Before they arrived a nice lady gave us Peanut Butter Crackers (yum!).

Lastly, and most importantly were Dan, Adam and Marleen from Ohio at Clingman's Dome. I decided to take the road down. My ankle had been swollen for days and was clicking as I walked. I had *no* idea the road walk was so far down. After about 3 miles of limping they passed me pushing bicycles up and we chatted. They caught me rather quickly riding down and Marleen rode with her son so I could coast down on the bike. I don't know if I have ever felt as appreciative or awed as I did that moment.

I don't know if this is a lot of Trail Magic at only 200 miles on the AT. I do know all of these people are appreciated because they came out of nowhere. I could have survived without them all but all of them produced a huge grin on my face and I still smile about the Ohio family. I did pass on one bit of trail magic during my trip because I wanted to hike on. The people involved were very unintrusive which was nice.

I know this thread took a turn for the argumentative so I am just injecting my ray of sunshine. See you on the trail in '06

bfitz
08-19-2005, 23:21
I DO have a problem with showing up and carrying on in a shelter where there may be others who want to sleep after a long day, others who don't drink, or others who simply don't want that kind of scene away from town.

There is always the potential for conflict when people sharing the same space desire different environmental conditions. Whether its hikers at a shelter who want to sleep, or stay up an carry on, or roomates who want to sleep while others watch TV, or neighbors who want to sleep while the band practices next door, or the party goes down, or people in tents at trail days who want to sleep (good luck!) rather than listen to people staggering around hootin and hollerin because they havent seen eachother in a year, these situations always require some planning and possibly compromise. I just hate it when one position assumes more validity than the other, like when someone who wants to sleep thinks they can tell ten people who are up that they need to respect his sleep schedule as if it is more sacred than their party (especially when that guy is up at 5 am making all sorts of noise around the campsite or shelter or whatever) Peoples right to a good time is just as sacred as others rights to peace and quiet. People planning to carry on should try to plan to make it least disruptive, while those who cant stand that sort of thing ought to avoid proximity. If this fails to solve all problems sometimes majority rules is a good rule to go by, but I have been on both sides of this divide and I can only say we all have tents, right?

LIhikers
08-23-2005, 09:08
Just a couple of weeks ago my wife and I were hiking in lower New England. At route 7 we headed into Great Barrington to find a new cartridge for our water filter. The outfitter that is 1.8 miles from the AT didn't have it and suggested a place right in the heart of Great Barrington. It was late in the afternoon and we headed off to town. Long story short we wound up spending the night with the same family that Jester2000 mentioned. They've been helping hikers for some time, but we were the first that their son Matt had ever offered help to. What a nice surprise to be able get a shower, do laundry, and have a good meal.

While our stay at their home may not have been out of the ordinary for them, it was special for us.

canoehead
08-23-2005, 09:17
it's nice to hear some possitive comments about this section of trail in MASS:clap
Great Barrington is a beautifull town and very hiker friendly:jump .

safe adventures
canoehead