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BostonBlue
05-10-2013, 00:39
Been reading occasionally about Thru- Hikers with sense of "entitlement." In many cases it sounds to me like most of these hikers are simply a little young. Still in that "the world owes me this hike" sort of phase. Granted I'm sure you see this in older hikers occasionally but the hikers who fit the bill in my opinion have just needed a few years on them. Doesn't make it right of course. Any suggestions we could pass along?

moldy
05-10-2013, 09:06
Nothing like a loaded question. Are you not talking about showing proper homage to the "rock stars" of our sport? The majority of hikers on the trail are day hikers, then comes overnighters, then weekenders, then long weekenders, then short, medium and long section hikers then finally in the fewest numbers come the "thru-hikers". The status of this term brings not just adulation but charity. Sometimes great charity. Some people will go above and beyond to help out a thru-hiker. With all this worship why not expect it? Of course that is the problem. I should also note that this phenomenon has not gone unnoticed certain members of our population. I have noticed greater and greater numbers of people on the margins of our society representing themselves as thru hikers in order to take advantage of this "rock star" status and the advantages it brings. Bums mostly, young and old, they talk the talk and know where and when to show up. The one I met recently at the jailhouse hostel in Palmerton Pa, had an old guide book, and a old boy scout backpack. He was hitchhiking from free or donation hostel to another along the AT. He had several good stories about how the people he meets should give him some trail magic so he can complete his dream of hiking the AT. He liked to hang out in front of the grocery store with all his gear and wait for someone to ask him a question. This only works in towns on or near the AT where the people are used to encountering hikers. Funny thing is that most experienced hikers can spot one of these guys within a few seconds. It's the "town people" who can't.

Chaco Taco
05-10-2013, 09:14
Been reading occasionally about Thru- Hikers with sense of "entitlement." In many cases it sounds to me like most of these hikers are simply a little young. Still in that "the world owes me this hike" sort of phase. Granted I'm sure you see this in older hikers occasionally but the hikers who fit the bill in my opinion have just needed a few years on them. Doesn't make it right of course. Any suggestions we could pass along?
I disagree with this. This isnt an age thing, its an attitude. Yea some of the younger hikers have this entitlement but I have met many older hikers, even those my age that have this sense that each town and hostel and shuttle driver owes them something.

hikerboy57
05-10-2013, 09:14
well as lone wolf says, its just walkin.
some would have you believe that a thru hike is akin to curing cancer or winning the nobel peace prize, when in reality its just an extended vacation. its a tough personal goal, and its great to be able to set a goal, and work hard to attain it, but in the end, its just walking.
i dont think entitlement issues are limited to the trail, i think its more a young vs. old thing, and i think its been going on for generations.fortunately we had better music, as my dad did, and his dad before that.

hikerboy57
05-10-2013, 09:15
I disagree with this. This isnt an age thing, its an attitude. Yea some of the younger hikers have this entitlement but I have met many older hikers, even those my age that have this sense that each town and hostel and shuttle driver owes them something.
yes ive seen that as well, but i have seen its predominantly the kids,getting angry even if they just cant get a signal.

Chaco Taco
05-10-2013, 09:20
yes ive seen that as well, but i have seen its predominantly the kids,getting angry even if they just cant get a signal.
Interesting. 9 times out of 10, hikers are great. Its that one a**hole that ruins it for everyone else. I love how up here, those entitled hikers always want to blame either the AMC or the trail clubs. ***** makes me laugh. Most of the time, from my own observations the one's that want to try to blame the AMC for whatever are the older hikers, esp one's out with their kids. Setting great examples by bitching at caretakers about $8 while the caretaker shovels their poop. See it every year....

fredmugs
05-10-2013, 09:22
yes ive seen that as well, but i have seen its predominantly the kids,getting angry even if they just cant get a signal.

Every kid wins a medal syndrome?

Grand Poobah
05-10-2013, 09:33
I blame the parents. I found myself getting frustrated when people wouldn't pick me up from the trail and get to town. But that's all. The trail taught me humility. But last year I met 25+ NOBO's who were out thru hiking on unemployment and using their free Obama phone and food stamps to buy beer, tobacco, and weed. It sickened me. I'm glad I could work hard save money and pay taxes so they could continue to be lazy and have others support their trip.

hikerboy57
05-10-2013, 09:34
Interesting. 9 times out of 10, hikers are great. Its that one a**hole that ruins it for everyone else. I love how up here, those entitled hikers always want to blame either the AMC or the trail clubs. ***** makes me laugh. Most of the time, from my own observations the one's that want to try to blame the AMC for whatever are the older hikers, esp one's out with their kids. Setting great examples by bitching at caretakers about $8 while the caretaker shovels their poop. See it every year....
well, a-holes can certainly be any age,and ive witnessed enough of the same bitchin up there as well, especially at the huts, but i think thats more a money entitlement thing.
i'll repeat the story i posted a few days back about the trail magic we received a few days before damascus, a cooler left by a local church filled with ice cold pepsis and cream pies. i turned to homebrew and starface and said"i'll bet some a-hole will come along, open the cooler,look inside and say, f***,no coke."
sure enough , a guy we'd been hiking with for the past 2 days comes up,opens the cooler,looks inside and says"f***,no coke"
he couldnt understand why we were laughing hysterically.

Cookerhiker
05-10-2013, 09:54
Interesting. 9 times out of 10, hikers are great. Its that one a**hole that ruins it for everyone else. I love how up here, those entitled hikers always want to blame either the AMC or the trail clubs. ***** makes me laugh. Most of the time, from my own observations the one's that want to try to blame the AMC for whatever are the older hikers, esp one's out with their kids. Setting great examples by bitching at caretakers about $8 while the caretaker shovels their poop. See it every year....

That's so true- in fact, there's an older thruhiker here on WB who bitched and whined about the AMC and the tough trail conditions in the Whites and Maine. Seemed that this guy wanted nice flat all-dirt, not too hard, not too soft treadway so he could experience his kind of hiking. He still complains about how he hated the trail in those 2 states.

kidchill
05-10-2013, 10:03
There's as many aholes on the trail as off the trail. It's just the way it goes. Man up and squash the reputation whenever you can. A lady in VT, I think it was Manchester Ctr or something like that, almost refused me a room in her hotel 'cause some NOBO's had trashed the place and were rude and disrespectful...apparently she had to call the cops and all this and that. So, I begged her for a room (it was a really LONG day), and ended up staying two nights. I always said please/thank you and did the best I could to clean up the room before I left. The second day I was there, she offered me a ride into town and asked if I needed anything. Unfortunately, a few people along the way mess it up for the rest of us. Maybe I saw more of this 'cause I was SOBO, so I was always coming in after the herd...Some people are always going to feel entitled and try to take advantage of it, the best anyone can do is treat people with respect and try to turn it around.

RodentWhisperer
05-10-2013, 10:13
I have to think (following Fredmugs and Grand Poobah): aren't parents to blame for the "every kid wins a medal" syndrome? That everyone is better, more deserving, and more privileged than everyone else?

atmilkman
05-10-2013, 10:16
There's as many aholes on the trail as off the trail. It's just the way it goes. Man up and squash the reputation whenever you can. A lady in VT, I think it was Manchester Ctr or something like that, almost refused me a room in her hotel 'cause some NOBO's had trashed the place and were rude and disrespectful...apparently she had to call the cops and all this and that. So, I begged her for a room (it was a really LONG day), and ended up staying two nights. I always said please/thank you and did the best I could to clean up the room before I left. The second day I was there, she offered me a ride into town and asked if I needed anything. Unfortunately, a few people along the way mess it up for the rest of us. Maybe I saw more of this 'cause I was SOBO, so I was always coming in after the herd...Some people are always going to feel entitled and try to take advantage of it, the best anyone can do is treat people with respect and try to turn it around.

This is all you can do. It's too bad though. You were probably apologizing for those who came before and that's not right.

Marta
05-10-2013, 10:21
I'll go even further and say that the difficulties of the Trail often turn even reasonable people into whining, carping A'holes. It's so HARD. I'm so HUNGRY. Everything HURTS. If only it were easier, I wouldn't be having such a hard time. I'm just plain ANGRY that it's so much harder than I expected.

When slapped in the face, and everywhere else, with the unexpected difficulty of this walk in the woods, we all can revert to our inner toddler. Some of us grow up. Some haven't yet. Some never will.

HikerMom58
05-10-2013, 11:14
I'm paying attention to what is being said on this thread... I know I'll continue to "help out" the hikers I get to know through this site and other "word of mouth" communications. :) I read people fairly quickly. So far it's been a good experience for me. Lots of friends, on here, have warned me about hikers that have this issue. I don't want to be part of the problem, with these type of hikers, but part of the solution. I'm gaining knowledge. Hike On! Thanks to all who have shared on this thread! :)

BirdBrain
05-10-2013, 11:24
That's so true- in fact, there's an older thruhiker here on WB who bitched and whined about the AMC and the tough trail conditions in the Whites and Maine. Seemed that this guy wanted nice flat all-dirt, not too hard, not too soft treadway so he could experience his kind of hiking. He still complains about how he hated the trail in those 2 states.

Maine is the best. The trails, the views, the variety... it is incredible. Of course I have not hiked in the other states across the AT. I am encouraged every time I hear people say that that hiking in Maine is hard. If I am ever blessed with the opportunity to hike thru I know I will be prepared. A certain section between Grafton Notch and Gorham makes me a bit nervous, but the rest sounds manageable.

Jeff
05-10-2013, 11:51
The vast majority of hikers are great folks.

maybe clem
05-10-2013, 11:58
I blame the parents. I found myself getting frustrated when people wouldn't pick me up from the trail and get to town. But that's all. The trail taught me humility. But last year I met 25+ NOBO's who were out thru hiking on unemployment and using their free Obama phone and food stamps to buy beer, tobacco, and weed. It sickened me. I'm glad I could work hard save money and pay taxes so they could continue to be lazy and have others support their trip.

Hear, hear.

hikerboy57
05-10-2013, 12:01
The vast majority of hikers are great folks.
+1 on this............

4shot
05-10-2013, 12:37
. I should also note that this phenomenon has not gone unnoticed certain members of our population. I have noticed greater and greater numbers of people on the margins of our society representing themselves as thru hikers in order to take advantage of this "rock star" status and the advantages it brings.

I agree with this.as a general rule, most of the people who create the bad vibe/bad reputation for "thru hikers" really aren't thru hikers. Maybe some (or most) of them really are (in their minds) trying to thru-hike. This element gets weeded out for the most part between Neel's Gap and HF.as you say, it's easy to call yourself a thru hiker out there. unfortunately, most of these characters create the negative image imo.

I am sure others have similar stories but the year I hiked, there was a "thru hiker" hanging out in every trail town along the way. Hiawassee, Franklin, Erwin, Damascus, etc. Oddly enough, no one could recall seeing him on the trail or signed in at the shelter registers. Lost track of the guty in central Va. - guess he ran out of money. The good news is - when he got back home, his boots were still in great condition after "500 + miles on the AT."

jeffmeh
05-10-2013, 14:17
Maine is the best. The trails, the views, the variety... it is incredible. Of course I have not hiked in the other states across the AT. I am encouraged every time I hear people say that that hiking in Maine is hard. If I am ever blessed with the opportunity to hike thru I know I will be prepared. A certain section between Grafton Notch and Gorham makes me a bit nervous, but the rest sounds manageable.

My son confirmed that having grown up hiking NH and Maine, he did not find anything on the AT more difficult. It's a definite advantage to start a thru with an understanding of how challenging the terrain can be, but one will figure it out eventually. :)

Mags
05-10-2013, 15:09
http://www.aldha.org/ethics.htm

HikerMom58
05-10-2013, 15:46
+1 on this............

I'm going with this.............. :)

Chaco Taco
05-10-2013, 15:58
Maine is the best. The trails, the views, the variety... it is incredible. Of course I have not hiked in the other states across the AT. I am encouraged every time I hear people say that that hiking in Maine is hard. If I am ever blessed with the opportunity to hike thru I know I will be prepared. A certain section between Grafton Notch and Gorham makes me a bit nervous, but the rest sounds manageable.
Grafton Notch north is simply the best part of the AT

Donde
05-10-2013, 16:40
All this talk about a-holes on trail is kind of amusing to me. In my 2400-2500 miles on the AT I have been constantly in love with lack of a-holes, both amongst hikers and in town. It seems like the a-hole ratio within 10 miles of the AT is at least 20 times lower than everywhere else. That's why I have gone back as able ( fixing to start another long one in a month here). Certainly there are a-holes but they are the outlier. I would always suggest the classic inward thought " If you run into an ******* in the morning, you ran into an *******. If you run into ******** all day, you're an *******."

xokie
05-10-2013, 16:56
The vast majority of hikers are great folks.
I just wanted to make sure Jeff's comment got repeated. My experience of thru-hikers is that they are tough, resilient, funny and generous.

Kookork
05-10-2013, 18:21
It is shocking that for most of the carriers including driving, plumbing, teaching ,etc you need a licence or education or at least you have to follow some regulations but when it comes to the most important and the most vital job which is parenting , most of us feel granted about being ready for it. AMAZING... ..... even SAD.

Sarcasm the elf
05-10-2013, 21:34
Been reading occasionally about Thru- Hikers with sense of "entitlement." In many cases it sounds to me like most of these hikers are simply a little young. Still in that "the world owes me this hike" sort of phase. Granted I'm sure you see this in older hikers occasionally but the hikers who fit the bill in my opinion have just needed a few years on them. Doesn't make it right of course. Any suggestions we could pass along?


Back to the opening question: BostonBlue, I wouldn't worry too much about hiker entitlement in real life.

People on the internet love to rant about things that annoy them (I'm as guilty of this as anyone else) and being that this forum is on a website it's natural for folks to complain about things that bother them. But keep in mind that this isn't real life, just a place for people to put their opinions in writing.

You will inevitably meet a couple of jackasses on the trail, since there are a few of them in every walk of life, but they will be outnumbered at least 50 to 1 by the great people that you meet while hiking.

Finally, when you read something on this site, don't forget that we're all just cranky because we're not out hiking ;)

Lone Wolf
05-10-2013, 22:14
i did Marine Corps boot camp. i've run 50 mile ultras. i'v'e had a major heart attack and by-pass surgery. walkin' the AT is child's play. buncha weenies

Sarcasm the elf
05-10-2013, 22:24
i did Marine Corps boot camp. i've run 50 mile ultras. i'v'e had a major heart attack and by-pass surgery. walkin' the AT is child's play. buncha weenies

Givin how many times you've hiked the A.T. does that mean you like child's play? ;)

fredmugs
05-11-2013, 08:06
I'll go even further and say that the difficulties of the Trail often turn even reasonable people into whining, carping A'holes. It's so HARD. I'm so HUNGRY. Everything HURTS. If only it were easier, I wouldn't be having such a hard time. I'm just plain ANGRY that it's so much harder than I expected..

Whenever I'm going thru a tough section I always say to myself: If this were easier there would be more people out here doing it. Tough is good. But then again I've been thru Marine Corps bootcamp. :)

T.S.Kobzol
05-11-2013, 09:15
The way I see it, everyone owes me at least a hundred bucks.


I disagree with this. This isnt an age thing, its an attitude. Yea some of the younger hikers have this entitlement but I have met many older hikers, even those my age that have this sense that each town and hostel and shuttle driver owes them something.



sent from samsonite using tapioca 2

MDSection12
05-11-2013, 10:11
If fact, and I have no reason to not believe it, I find this very troubling.
I dispute the exact facts given, but not the idea. I'm sure there are tons of guys on the AT on unemployment as we speak. I've met a few on disability on the AT... Though I'm not sure that's a bad thing, depending on their situation.

Im getting laid off at the end of June and as much as I'd love to take a month or two vacation on unemployment I can't bring myself to do it. I'll use the money if I need it, but I can't see signing up then shipping out for a long hike. :mad:

rocketsocks
05-11-2013, 12:06
Whenever I'm going thru a tough section I always say to myself: If this were easier there would be more people out here doing it. Tough is good. But then again I've been thru Marine Corps bootcamp. :)Well Ive never been through a boot camp...but I did have a book read to me when i was little....it was about this train that was trying to get up this hill, and he kept sayin..."I think I can, I think I can" So I usally call upon my "Can do" attitude to "get er done":)


But to keep her on track here....nobody owes you a living in life, you want something, dig your heels in and go get it...way to many takers out there, and not enough givers.

rocketsocks
05-11-2013, 13:06
here's some stand up people:rolleyes:...92' LA riots


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FAo5mmj83g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FAo5mmj83g

Donde
05-11-2013, 17:07
This thread has turned hilarious, folks bragging about the battle of basic what a boot thing to say!

Hairbear
05-11-2013, 17:34
I think we all have to take the blame for the entitlement attitude. We all bought into the idea of mass consumerism and passed it along to our kids.

Hairbear
05-11-2013, 17:36
I think we all have to take the blame for the entitlement attitude. We all bought into the idea of mass consumerism and passed it along to our kids. You know what i mean ,my child will have everything the so and so family has at all cost.

Hairbear
05-11-2013, 17:39
we are constantly bombarded by the media to feel inferior if we dont.

hikerboy57
05-11-2013, 18:32
we are constantly bombarded by the media to feel inferior if we dont.
and thats why we want our kids to see what backpacking has to offer-happiness without all the "stuff"

Mountain Mike
05-11-2013, 18:34
and thats why we want our kids to see what backpacking has to offer-happiness without all the "stuff"
+1.............

rocketsocks
05-11-2013, 19:02
You know what i mean ,my child will have everything the so and so family has at all cost.Guilty...but cognezant...and getting better.

hikerboy57
05-11-2013, 19:03
Guilty...but cognezant...and getting better.
best way to change the world is to start at home

rocketsocks
05-11-2013, 19:06
best way to change the world is to start at homeAmen brother

rocketsocks
05-11-2013, 19:08
Normally I'd post a video, say "man in the mirror"...but i don't feel like it, and not a big MJ fan...except for the early stuff..and thriller, that was a good one

Bronk
05-12-2013, 03:23
I disagree with this. This isnt an age thing, its an attitude. Yea some of the younger hikers have this entitlement but I have met many older hikers, even those my age that have this sense that each town and hostel and shuttle driver owes them something.

How are they supposed to act? When they get to every road crossing someone is waiting there to offer them a ride. People set up roadside barbeques in their honor. They give them free places to stay and chauffeur them around town. They treat them with awe and wonderment. And people wonder why they act like rock stars...they are treated like them. From what I've seen people don't start at Springer with this attitude, but by the time they've walked a couple hundred miles it is firmly in place.

HikerMom58
05-12-2013, 06:36
How are they supposed to act? When they get to every road crossing someone is waiting there to offer them a ride. People set up roadside barbeques in their honor. They give them free places to stay and chauffeur them around town. They treat them with awe and wonderment. And people wonder why they act like rock stars...they are treated like them. From what I've seen people don't start at Springer with this attitude, but by the time they've walked a couple hundred miles it is firmly in place.

I agree with this and then I disagree with it. The hikers that I've encountered haven't cocked this attitude and then "run with it", as you propose. I treat them like rock stars, sometimes. I treat them with awe and wonderment, sometimes. They don't ever stop thanking me for my kindness towards them. They appreciate everything so much. They say things like- "words can't describe just how much I appreciate it". On and on. I get a thank you text every Christmas from one hiker I helped out. We stay in touch and are like family.

I agree with "this" when I read HB's story about the hiker "complaining" about not having his favorite soda in the trail angel's cooler, that he came across. By the time these hikers are old enough to hike - "who they are" has already been well established. The treatment, on the trail, that you describe, just adds fuel to the fire. When some trail angels run into the hikers you describe, that's when you hear that they have stopped giving to the hikers.

Lone Wolf
05-12-2013, 07:01
How are they supposed to act? When they get to every road crossing someone is waiting there to offer them a ride. People set up roadside barbeques in their honor. They give them free places to stay and chauffeur them around town. They treat them with awe and wonderment. And people wonder why they act like rock stars...they are treated like them. From what I've seen people don't start at Springer with this attitude, but by the time they've walked a couple hundred miles it is firmly in place.
ain't it the truth? hikers are a dime a dozen on vacation. don't understand the need to feed them

HikerMom58
05-12-2013, 07:13
ain't it the truth? hikers are a dime a dozen on vacation. don't understand the need to feed them

I'm laughing at your post!! I'm picturing you using one finger to type those words. Ha Ha!! I hope you have a wonderful time with all those entitled hikers this coming weekend. :D Wish I was there!

Wise Old Owl
05-12-2013, 09:00
The vast majority of hikers are great folks. I have met "Entitled" people both young and old thru all walks in life. I have met a older man with a doctorate, he owns a large parcel of land and can't hold a job and enjoys his pot and liquor and EBT card, he is a good friend. There isn't a youth factor here, they simply cant help themselves and don't hide the behavior. There is a huge difference between what you folks watch on the news vs street smarts. People (can & will) lie, cheat, steal, swap, sell, gamble and simply take advantage of each other, or more importantly choose not to. Helping others is simply the judeo-christian thing to do, we call it trail magic, an opportunity to do something good for fellow hikers.

I find it interesting as the years progress on WB and many great people come and go I see less threads about bibles and more threads about hobo's and crazy people living on the trails - more threads are now about fears, complaints, and simply whining. And until someone wrote "Do I put my dentures in my bear box?" all the good questions have been asked! Get out and hike folks, step away from the computers and enjoy the view and stop worrying about it. Honest, when was the last time someone posted "Look what we accomplished!"?

As human beings we bash each others beliefs both in the news and in public and occasionally here on WB. And something I realized recently, I ask you the reader if there is one nugget of information as you go thru life understand this "Judge others not by their beliefs, judge others by their actions."


And Mr. Gator This Aussie and soon to be American kept the politics out of it... Mags would be proud of me, Yes Sir!

Kookork
05-12-2013, 10:09
The vast majority of hikers are great folks. I have met "Entitled" people both young and old thru all walks in life. I have met a older man with a doctorate, he owns a large parcel of land and can't hold a job and enjoys his pot and liquor and EBT card, he is a good friend. There isn't a youth factor here, they simply cant help themselves and don't hide the behavior. There is a huge difference between what you folks watch on the news vs street smarts. People (can & will) lie, cheat, steal, swap, sell, gamble and simply take advantage of each other, or more importantly choose not to. Helping others is simply the judeo-christian thing to do, we call it trail magic, an opportunity to do something good for fellow hikers.

I find it interesting as the years progress on WB and many great people come and go I see less threads about bibles and more threads about hobo's and crazy people living on the trails - more threads are now about fears, complaints, and simply whining. And until someone wrote "Do I put my dentures in my bear box?" all the good questions have been asked! Get out and hike folks, step away from the computers and enjoy the view and stop worrying about it. Honest, when was the last time someone posted "Look what we accomplished!"?

As human beings we bash each others beliefs both in the news and in public and occasionally here on WB. And something I realized recently, I ask you the reader if there is one nugget of information as you go thru life understand this "Judge others not by their beliefs, judge others by their actions."


And Mr. Gator This Aussie and soon to be American kept the politics out of it... Mags would be proud of me, Yes Sir!

By mentioning " Helping others is simply the judeo-christian thing to do" you contradicted the part of your post which says ""Judge others not by their beliefs, judge others by their actions."


Helping people is simply the right thing to do regardless of the faith of the helper . A trail magic done by a Buddhist, Muslim, atheist ,none believer ,Christian, Jew ... is still a trail magic and the burger they provide taste like a burger regardless of the faith of the provider.

WingedMonkey
05-12-2013, 10:57
I can see now, how sending Mel Gibson to Australia for his informative years turned him into such a entitled nut job. We really need to tighten our immigration policies.

And we certainly need to tighten our citizenship requirements.

Wise Old Owl
05-12-2013, 11:10
Interesting - I don't believe I did. I firmly believe in random acts of kindness. We are taught even as children to help one another, to offer support and caring. Hense my belief, even when others feel entitled. Chivalry isn't dead - yet.

Alright lets go down that path just for a moment.... 21586Here is a guy that people find entertaining and a over the top Atheist, & doesn’t want to pay his fair share of taxes - But he is a Charity Donating Machine.... Do you judge him by his beliefs or his actions? Would you want to hang out with him? He is tremendously popular.

Here is a Quote from Penn Jillette: "People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if we’re compassionate we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint."


Here is another example...

Here is a guy http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Piers_Morgan_2012.jpg/220px-Piers_Morgan_2012.jpgWho's actions prompted Lord Leveson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Leveson) that comments made in Morgan's testimony about phone hacking "clearly prove is that he was aware that it was taking place in the press as a whole and that he was sufficiently unembarrassed by what was criminal behavior that he was prepared to joke about it". His beliefs prompted him to say this...

"I do believe, because I grew up a Catholic and I remain so. But, you know, I think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whatever they may be. The problem for atheists, it must be so doom and gloom. When you get to, like, 70, 80, to think, well, hang on, that’s it. That’s the end of everything."

Even though he won a celebrity Apprentice and gave $754,300 to charity.... He has the worst rated show in the history of CNN and So unpopular in England they gave him the boot, and when the American public started a petition to send him back, England started one for us to keep him! he is a joke and making all Brits look bad.

His actions? "On 7 December 2005 Bhoyrul and Hipwell were convicted of conspiracy to breach the Financial Services Act. During the trial it emerged that Morgan had bought £67,000 worth of Viglen shares, emptying his bank account and investing under his wife's name too"

Morgan was fired as Editor of the Daily Mirror on 14 May 2004 after authorising the newspaper's publication of photographs allegedly showing Iraqi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) prisoners being abused by British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Lancashire_Regiment). Within days the photographs were shown to be crude fakes. Under the headline "SORRY.. WE WERE HOAXED", the Mirror responded that it had fallen victim to a "calculated and malicious hoax" and apologised for the publication of the photographs.

Morgan While he did "not believe to the best of my recollection" that phone hacking had occurred at the Mirror, he admitted to listening to the voice mail left by Paul McCartney for Heather Mills, but refused to "discuss where he was played that tape or who played it – it would compromise a source."

So his actions are that he lies badly, cheats and steals.... (cheated on his first wife and is now divorced) (is he acting Entitled?)


Do you judge him by his beliefs or his actions? Would you want to hang out with him? He is tremendously un-popular.


Ok does this clear it up?

Wise Old Owl
05-12-2013, 11:16
I can see now, how sending Mel Gibson to Australia for his informative years turned him into such a entitled nut job. We really need to tighten our immigration policies.

And we certainly need to tighten our citizenship requirements.


A lot of misconception there. If thats the way you feel free to put me on ignore, WM. I will understand.


Clearly you are comparing me to Mel Gibson, someone I do not like and saying I am entitled - I am not. I work my ass off, pay my taxes, and donate my time.

hikerboy57
05-12-2013, 11:19
it isn't up to us to judge any individual neither by his words beliefs or actions.
lest ye be judged.

rickb
05-12-2013, 11:21
it isn't up to us to judge any individual neither by his words beliefs or actions.
lest ye be judged.

I expect to be judged. Don't you?

MDSection12
05-12-2013, 11:21
and thats why we want our kids to see what backpacking has to offer-happiness without all the "stuff"
That's right. (But don't forget to bring the cuben!)

hikerboy57
05-12-2013, 11:25
I expect to be judged. Don't you?

perhaps but I hope to continue to live my life in a way that I won't be concerned. and I certainly don't care about a person or his opinion. it's just as valid or invalid as mine. just words.

Wise Old Owl
05-12-2013, 11:25
Thanks guy's I was trying to keep Politics and Religion out of it.... Its harder than I thought....:rolleyes:

hikerboy57
05-12-2013, 11:28
Thanks guy's I was trying to keep Politics and Religion out of it.... Its harder than I thought....:rolleyes:

the Golden Rule trumps both politics and religion.

rickb
05-12-2013, 11:30
the Golden Rule trumps both politics and religion.

Yup. He with the gold rules.

Kookork
05-12-2013, 13:05
Interesting - I don't believe I did. I firmly believe in random acts of kindness. We are taught even as children to help one another, to offer support and caring. Hense my belief, even when others feel entitled. Chivalry isn't dead - yet.

Alright lets go down that path just for a moment.... 21586Here is a guy that people find entertaining and a over the top Atheist, & doesn’t want to pay his fair share of taxes - But he is a Charity Donating Machine.... Do you judge him by his beliefs or his actions? Would you want to hang out with him? He is tremendously popular.

Here is a Quote from Penn Jillette: "People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if we’re compassionate we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint."


Here is another example...

Here is a guy http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Piers_Morgan_2012.jpg/220px-Piers_Morgan_2012.jpgWho's actions prompted Lord Leveson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Leveson) that comments made in Morgan's testimony about phone hacking "clearly prove is that he was aware that it was taking place in the press as a whole and that he was sufficiently unembarrassed by what was criminal behavior that he was prepared to joke about it". His beliefs prompted him to say this...

"I do believe, because I grew up a Catholic and I remain so. But, you know, I think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whatever they may be. The problem for atheists, it must be so doom and gloom. When you get to, like, 70, 80, to think, well, hang on, that’s it. That’s the end of everything."

Even though he won a celebrity Apprentice and gave $754,300 to charity.... He has the worst rated show in the history of CNN and So unpopular in England they gave him the boot, and when the American public started a petition to send him back, England started one for us to keep him! he is a joke and making all Brits look bad.

His actions? "On 7 December 2005 Bhoyrul and Hipwell were convicted of conspiracy to breach the Financial Services Act. During the trial it emerged that Morgan had bought £67,000 worth of Viglen shares, emptying his bank account and investing under his wife's name too"

Morgan was fired as Editor of the Daily Mirror on 14 May 2004 after authorising the newspaper's publication of photographs allegedly showing Iraqi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) prisoners being abused by British Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Lancashire_Regiment). Within days the photographs were shown to be crude fakes. Under the headline "SORRY.. WE WERE HOAXED", the Mirror responded that it had fallen victim to a "calculated and malicious hoax" and apologised for the publication of the photographs.

Morgan While he did "not believe to the best of my recollection" that phone hacking had occurred at the Mirror, he admitted to listening to the voice mail left by Paul McCartney for Heather Mills, but refused to "discuss where he was played that tape or who played it – it would compromise a source."

So his actions are that he lies badly, cheats and steals.... (cheated on his first wife and is now divorced) (is he acting Entitled?)


Do you judge him by his beliefs or his actions? Would you want to hang out with him? He is tremendously un-popular.


Ok does this clear it up?


I couldn't care less about Morgan or the other fellow. I found neither of them interesting nor worthy of following. They are not my type of guys and I couldn't care less about how much they donate. Why they donate and to whom they donate is more important to me.

I do not judge a person according to his/her beliefs or actions. I judge him according to his intentions.

Kookork
05-12-2013, 13:08
Thanks guy's I was trying to keep Politics and Religion out of it.... Its harder than I thought....:rolleyes:

No you were not, and that is why I started to comment about your comment.

TD55
05-12-2013, 13:49
Wow Kookork, I guess it's good we have a mind reader and person who can tell a persons intent about thier comments with just the use of your superior intelligence. And the way you can frame it with an insulting remark is just so cool.

daddytwosticks
05-12-2013, 14:12
Everybody just needs to go hike...

Hairbear
05-12-2013, 14:21
Guilty...but cognezant...and getting better. Me too. My comments came from self examination.

Wise Old Owl
05-12-2013, 14:24
Kookork - You said I contradicted myself and I tried really hard to understand what you meant by that. I provided what I thought was a reasonable example without going over the top. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or belittling. I have tried to honestly answer why some feel that youth appear to be entitled, yet I hang out with a large group of fifty somethings and good friends and some are clearly running around entitled cheating on the system and always with a hand out not a hand up. I don't hold it against them, I am never about trying to change their opinion. I was looking forward to add to an intelligent debate or conversation with my post. I do care about people. I do choose my friends carefully as well as my business associates. So honestly, if you don't understand the first post, I cant help you.

Which is a fit for you? Do you enjoy hanging out with lying, cheating, thieves or you don't care about people. Do you like being lied to?

You don't make friends based on others intentions...



Just an FYI :rolleyes:=sarcasm

Hairbear
05-12-2013, 14:29
best way to change the world is to start at home That is exactly my point . Teach humility ,not supieriority. I did not do a very good job myself.

Chaco Taco
05-12-2013, 18:09
Everybody just needs to go hike...
Ha like that happens. People sitting around talkin about hikin and somehow making all of nothing about religion or politics. What a joke. Looks like some folks had quite the excitting weekend bitchin and moaning on the internet.

Kookork
05-12-2013, 18:10
Wow Kookork, I guess it's good we have a mind reader and person who can tell a persons intent about thier comments with just the use of your superior intelligence. And the way you can frame it with an insulting remark is just so cool.

Please do me a favor and show me which part of my comment was "Insulting remark" because I have had no intention to insult. If I want to insult somebody I am very straight forward about it.Sometimes I am sarcastic but insulting ? I don't think so unless you show me where I crossed the line.

Kookork
05-12-2013, 18:26
Kookork - You said I contradicted myself and I tried really hard to understand what you meant by that. I provided what I thought was a reasonable example without going over the top. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or belittling. I have tried to honestly answer why some feel that youth appear to be entitled, yet I hang out with a large group of fifty somethings and good friends and some are clearly running around entitled cheating on the system and always with a hand out not a hand up. I don't hold it against them, I am never about trying to change their opinion. I was looking forward to add to an intelligent debate or conversation with my post. I do care about people. I do choose my friends carefully as well as my business associates. So honestly, if you don't understand the first post, I cant help you.

Which is a fit for you? Do you enjoy hanging out with lying, cheating, thieves or you don't care about people. Do you like being lied to?

You don't make friends based on others intentions...



Just an FYI :rolleyes:=sarcasm

WOO, I am not going to lie ,recently I can't connect with your comments the way I used to. It could be I have changed and you are the same or ...

Some of us are here to learn, some of us are here to teach and some are here to teach and learn. The winner in my book is the third group.

In which group do you honestly categorize yourself?

When was the last time you admitted that you have not been right about something?

BTW: About using smiley, I am a clueless person and honestly need to know more about how to use and interpret them. I did not know that :rolleyes: means sarcasm. I need to search internet to find a site that shows their meaning and usage so when I read your comment about religion and politics I missed the sarcastic smiley. My bad.

T.S.Kobzol
05-13-2013, 07:12
Would you please take my on call pager next time I want to go backpacking and instead have fix and support over 500 stupid database systems?




Ha like that happens. People sitting around talkin about hikin and somehow making all of nothing about religion or politics. What a joke. Looks like some folks had quite the excitting weekend bitchin and moaning on the internet.



sent from samsonite using tapioca 2

HikerMom58
05-13-2013, 08:53
Wow... what happened here? Koko, I believe I like the third group as well. I believe that WOO is teachable. He has admitted he's made a mistake before. I love y'all and hope things can be worked out.

Wise Old Owl
05-13-2013, 11:42
Nothing really happened ... I guess I have trouble making posts with clarity.... it just doesn't matter... just poorly spent time.

Kookork - you don't need to look up smileys - just hold the pointer on them and a explanation will pop up.

IrishBASTARD
05-13-2013, 11:45
I blame the hiker in general, REGARDLESS of age, as in prospect is an ignorant all be it, very disrespectful view. Age does not bring with it knowledge or skill, those things are honed and learned, how about the elderly who graduate High School, sadly at a much later age, does that make them wiser, say than a High school drop out at sixteen. Have heard from a hostel owner in VT, "You guy guys I love, the old guys bitch and moan, like I owe them something, you kids are all thankful" So basically age isn't anything, but truly a number and a date. So if you want to whine, go for it but I have seen a B&B wrecked by a forty+ former Soldier in the Army, all the while, I had both tipped and showed utter respect, both to the owners, as well as the wonderful staff. Age is nothing, respect is LEARNED.

FarmerChef
05-13-2013, 12:09
Ok. Finally going to wade into the shallow end here. Or perhaps just dip my toe ;)

I desperately want my children to grow up with a can-do attitude, especially that hard work on the right things brings great rewards - much of which is not necessarily monetary. But I constantly fight a culture that seems to teach the opposite. I'm not entirely sure how. Are standards lower so that achievers reach lower to achieve and the cycle repeats? Do parents give privileges too freely to their kids so that they have an attitude of "I deserve it" without a corresponding "because I earned it?"

I agree that the entitlement attitude is not age-specific on the trail, though I see an alarming trend in young people both kids and young professionals (in my experience conducting hundreds of interviews). I fear the situation may degrade as the issue of hiker entitlement is dwarfed by the much larger issue of a growing sense of personal entitlement (and I'm not talking about political views here at all - just personal responsibility). Sometimes I'm positive that I must look like a nut to my kids because they have to work so hard to get everything and I ride them hard when they do a poor job. I just hope it works out as I hope when they are responsible for paying their own bills, holding a job and, gasp, raising their own children. I know my respect for my parents went up a ton when I graduated college and again when our first baby was born.

Fingers crossed, hands folded.

HikerMom58
05-13-2013, 13:18
Nothing really happened ... I guess I have trouble making posts with clarity.... it just doesn't matter... just poorly spent time.

Kookork - you don't need to look up smileys - just hold the pointer on them and a explanation will pop up.

Hey WOO - we all have trouble posting with clarity. I know I do.

I agree with IB - respect for others should be taught therefore, can be learned/chosen. But, respect also needs to be earned. One can't just demand respect from everyone they interact with. It has to be earned by ones actions, not just by ones "words." You have earned respect, from me, by your actions/reactions, on this site. WAY TO GO, WOO. :D I've been paying attention. ;)

rocketsocks
05-13-2013, 13:29
I blame the hiker in general, REGARDLESS of age, as in prospect is an ignorant all be it, very disrespectful view. Age does not bring with it knowledge or skill, those things are honed and learned, how about the elderly who graduate High School, sadly at a much later age, does that make them wiser, say than a High school drop out at sixteen. Have heard from a hostel owner in VT, "You guy guys I love, the old guys bitch and moan, like I owe them something, you kids are all thankful" So basically age isn't anything, but truly a number and a date. So if you want to whine, go for it but I have seen a B&B wrecked by a forty+ former Soldier in the Army, all the while, I had both tipped and showed utter respect, both to the owners, as well as the wonderful staff. Age is nothing, respect is LEARNED.Your wrong dude...and obviously a isolated incident...I've known many who were taught solderin, they don't act like that. In fact most adults don't act like your suggesting, it's called growing up, it's a natural progression, it'll happen to you to....if you let.

Kookork
05-13-2013, 13:39
Wow... what happened here? Koko, I believe I like the third group as well. I believe that WOO is teachable. He has admitted he's made a mistake before. I love y'all and hope things can be worked out.

I wish I had a big heart like you HikerMom( aka The peace maker) but I don't. It seems I jumped the gun (again). WOO has been one of my favorite posters and one of my friends in this website. I lost my control and needed to attack someone and could not find any shorter wall to jump over it than WOO's:o .

I am here to make friends and share what I know and learn many things I don't. It seems I have a long way to go to learn to be patient and tolerant. I am just in the process of this transition but surely in a better position than when I started posting on WB.

PS: I am Sorry WOO and thanks for the smiley hint, I used it wisely this time.Didn't I?

HikerMom58
05-13-2013, 14:47
I wish I had a big heart like you HikerMom( aka The peace maker) but I don't. It seems I jumped the gun (again). WOO has been one of my favorite posters and one of my friends in this website. I lost my control and needed to attack someone and could not find any shorter wall to jump over it than WOO's:o .

I am here to make friends and share what I know and learn many things I don't. It seems I have a long way to go to learn to be patient and tolerant. I am just in the process of this transition but surely in a better position than when I started posting on WB.

PS: I am Sorry WOO and thanks for the smiley hint, I used it wisely this time.Didn't I?

You, my friend, have earned my respect. :D It's not about perfection, we will never "arrive". It's just not in the cards for any one of us.

It's all about making mistakes, mistreating others, judging others unfairly,not being patient, having little tolerance for the differences with each other, for losing control and acting like an A-hole, sometimes. It's all that. But, the beauty in it all, is realizing that there might be a better way. Some of us don't like the results .... it's not working well for us. So, we admit our short comings, say I'm sorry & try to learn from our mistakes. That's all we can do. That's it.
For me (& this is just for me personally, ok,) I go to a higher power, someone bigger than us, a perfect example of love and I strive to be like more like that... it's hard. I fail so miserably at times.

Koko... I appreciate the kind words but I know I don't have a bigger heart than you. I know I don't. You and me... we are the same. Our strengths and weakness maybe different but we are the same. We are all equally worthy.

Thanks for being teachable, Koko. It's fun being on this journey with ya!! :) I wonder when it'll be my turn to apologize, next. Ahhhh.... :eek: .... :D

TD55
05-13-2013, 15:00
Since we are being warm and fuzzy, let me offer my apology also. Sorry Kookork, guess I was feeling like an "entitled poster" and got into something that was none of my business. There's a lot of that that goes on here and I'm as guilty as anyone.

Namtrag
05-13-2013, 15:09
Inflection, facial expressions, hand gestures, and the like are all missing when we talk via a forum. Many times I think we would not be so easily hurt or angered by each others' comments if we were sitting around a bar with a bar saying the exact things we are writing.

FarmerChef
05-13-2013, 15:14
Inflection, facial expressions, hand gestures, and the like are all missing when we talk via a forum. Many times I think we would not be so easily hurt or angered by each others' comments if we were sitting around a bar with a bar saying the exact things we are writing.

Here, here. The way we talk on the forums is so often not at all like what we would say in regular, casual conversation with each other. It's so easy to express our opinions in a way that doesn't translate well and so easy to misunderstand the intent of another. Thank you guys for being as open to accepting criticism as you are to dealing it out. Being able to give AND take demonstrates maturity and wisdom and seeing it here, I think, increases respect for one another and Whiteblaze. You guys have certainly earned my respect at least.

MDSection12
05-13-2013, 15:16
Your wrong dude...and obviously a isolated incident...I've known many who were taught solderin, they don't act like that. In fact most adults don't act like your suggesting, it's called growing up, it's a natural progression, it'll happen to you to....if you let.

I hope this is sarcastic... But I'm missing the 'smiley' to roll my mouse over and tell. Lots in this post I see that could use some 'growing up.'

Kookork
05-13-2013, 16:48
Since we are being warm and fuzzy, let me offer my apology also. Sorry Kookork, guess I was feeling like an "entitled poster" and got into something that was none of my business. There's a lot of that that goes on here and I'm as guilty as anyone.

Accepted Sir. you all made my day. I think whatever is posted in this website is sort of our business otherwise it will be sent in private message so you did what you had every right to do and that was commenting about my post.
Somebody once said in this website that I like drama. I guess he was almost right except that I don't like drama ,I love it. So when the drama level of WB decreases, I am not bad at increasing it.( what kind of smiley should I use here? :D or :p or :)? How about :banana?

as Hikerboy says: It is all good.

hikerboy57
05-13-2013, 19:30
Accepted Sir. you all made my day. I think whatever is posted in this website is sort of our business otherwise it will be sent in private message so you did what you had every right to do and that was commenting about my post.
Somebody once said in this website that I like drama. I guess he was almost right except that I don't like drama ,I love it. So when the drama level of WB decreases, I am not bad at increasing it.( what kind of smiley should I use here? :D or :p or :)? How about :banana?

as Hikerboy says: It is all good.
balance has been restored.
indeed, its all good.

now back to our show....

birchy
05-13-2013, 20:42
I disagree with this. This isnt an age thing, its an attitude. Yea some of the younger hikers have this entitlement but I have met many older hikers, even those my age that have this sense that each town and hostel and shuttle driver owes them something.


It is not just hikers,, It is people in GENERAL.... sticking your nose where it don't belong is a sign that you may very well be one of these people, like spreading information (gossip) without direct knowledge of the facts. You are not entitled to provide information, unless you personally know it to be true.

MuddyWaters
05-13-2013, 20:47
Some folks simply confuse being on an extended vacation, with being a rock star.

They are having a great adventure that everyone must be envious of, right?
But its really only temporary, sporadic, self induced deprivation, and no one else in the world gives a crap.

Wise Old Owl
05-13-2013, 21:30
Folks we as a group have set a president here, part of posting is the struggle, kookork's posts have intrigued me a long time ago and I "befriended" him long ago as he has a lot to offer to many hikers. This is a very difficult thread as we as a group unravel the word Entitled. I step on egg shells with just the thought of having an intelligent conversation without someone having animosity after the thread. We are still friends and you the reader can understand that folks can disagree from time to time

lets see what we can do here.

hikerboy57
05-13-2013, 21:40
Folks we as a group have set a president here, part of posting is the struggle, kookork's posts have intrigued me a long time ago and I "befriended" him long ago as he has a lot to offer to many hikers. This is a very difficult thread as we as a group unravel the word Entitled. I step on egg shells with just the thought of having an intelligent conversation without someone having animosity after the thread. We are still friends and you the reader can understand that folks can disagree from time to time

lets see what we can do here.
and what entitles you to say whether we are entitled to comment on the entitled thread?

i feel entitled to an answer.

Kookork
05-13-2013, 22:32
I dream about a society that the younger generation act more rational or in a more responsible way than the older generations but I yet to find that society. It just may happen in the future but that is not the case now. Kind of wishful thinking I say.

Here in Canada when we are waiting for the pedestrian light to turn white and cross the street, many times some folks cross the street before it is time and do not wait for the light to turn white. Among this light jumpers there are mostly younger generation but there are some mid age and a few older folks also. That is the way it is. It is human nature.

I am hoping that the explosion of information and social media( internet and TV and ....) will make the transition faster and people reach to the maturity of life sooner than their parents and grandparents.

My father used to prepare for his elementary school exams under the street lights since most of the average income folks did not have electricity and he was living in the capital of Iran!!!. Now his son opens his laptop and endless source of information is just a few clicks away or checks his emails while he is hiking in the middle of nowhere. Have all these technology made us to act more responsible and more mature than our parents?

...... Open to discussion....

MuddyWaters
05-13-2013, 22:36
Have all these technology made us to act more responsible and more mature than our parents?

...... Open to discussion....

All I know is when I was a kid, if I wanted to see porn I had to find a rotting ,dirty magazine in the woods that some other kid had swiped and hidden out there. Im pretty sure most 13yr olds today have seen more porn than I saw by the time I was 30.

hikerboy57
05-13-2013, 22:44
unfortunately kookurk, i believe the social media explosion has made us somewhat antisocial ina sense, where its easier to sit inside and type away , rather than get out more and physically interact with people, real live people, and not just screen names.thats why its so refreshing to get away from all this crap , go out and hike, and it restores your faith in the good in people,and you begin again to look first for the good in a person, rather than look for his flaws.
conversely, i have made many friends here at whiteblaze, and ive had the privilege of meeting and hiking with quite a few of them. social networking can be a good thing,but real life is waiting while we're both sitting here typing.

Kookork
05-13-2013, 23:00
unfortunately kookurk, i believe the social media explosion has made us somewhat antisocial ina sense, where its easier to sit inside and type away , rather than get out more and physically interact with people, real live people, and not just screen names.thats why its so refreshing to get away from all this crap , go out and hike, and it restores your faith in the good in people,and you begin again to look first for the good in a person, rather than look for his flaws.
conversely, i have made many friends here at whiteblaze, and ive had the privilege of meeting and hiking with quite a few of them. social networking can be a good thing,but real life is waiting while we're both sitting here typing.

Amen to that ^^.

Social media to real life experience is like watching a kiss in a movie to kissing for real. No comparison indeed.:)

rocketsocks
05-14-2013, 14:43
I hope this is sarcastic... But I'm missing the 'smiley' to roll my mouse over and tell. Lots in this post I see that could use some 'growing up.'yep I always seem to forget the smiley, though this time I wasn't being sarcastic...I really don't think it's the older hikers that are the ones feeling entitled....I think they have saved the money needed for a thru-hike (vacation) and are not doing it on a shoe string budget, are not the ones partying till all hrs. of the night in a hostel or shelter, and basically following the rules. Not looking to get in a pissing match over this...it just my feeling and opinion, again based on the fact that when we age...we grow :). Me, I'm not ready to grow-up...I'm a Toy's 'R' Us kid, they gotta a lot of toys at toys r us for you to play with.:rolleyes: Lots of toy's here too

;) :(:-?:eek::clap:banana:bse:datz :welcome :jump


:p:clap:):dance

Chaco Taco
05-14-2013, 15:24
yep I always seem to forget the smiley, though this time I wasn't being sarcastic...I really don't think it's the older hikers that are the ones feeling entitled....I think they have saved the money needed for a thru-hike (vacation) and are not doing it on a shoe string budget, are not the ones partying till all hrs. of the night in a hostel or shelter, and basically following the rules. Not looking to get in a pissing match over this...it just my feeling and opinion, again based on the fact that when we age...we grow :). Me, I'm not ready to grow-up...I'm a Toy's 'R' Us kid, they gotta a lot of toys at toys r us for you to play with.:rolleyes: Lots of toy's here too

;) :(:-?:eek::clap:banana:bse:datz :welcome :jump


:p:clap:):dance
Yea I guess.....Respectfully....Most of the older folks I have hiked with were some of the greatest people on the trail. I said MOST. Most of the younger folks, the same. But you get that one guy that knows every single effing thing and starts yelling at folks about whatever. Never really seen it with the ladies :) Maybe cuz they are just so much smarter than the rest of us knuckleheads. Same thing with the younger kids, they get piss drunk, like Im sure we will hear plenty about on Monday, and start a fight. Most of the time you are right, the older folks out hiking have been waiting a long time or have been planning for awhile. But sometimes, it isnt what they thought and they get all pissy pants.

rocketsocks
05-14-2013, 15:37
Yea I guess.....Respectfully....Most of the older folks I have hiked with were some of the greatest people on the trail. I said MOST. Most of the younger folks, the same. But you get that one guy that knows every single effing thing and starts yelling at folks about whatever. Never really seen it with the ladies :) Maybe cuz they are just so much smarter than the rest of us knuckleheads. Same thing with the younger kids, they get piss drunk, like Im sure we will hear plenty about on Monday, and start a fight. Most of the time you are right, the older folks out hiking have been waiting a long time or have been planning for awhile. But sometimes, it isnt what they thought and they get all pissy pants.I hear ya, no doubt there's the older weirdo guy who won't go away, steals, cheats , lies, your basic bum...every towns got em.

prain4u
05-15-2013, 01:14
I don't view thru hikers as rock stars who are deserving of special treatment. In my mind, completing a thru hike doesn't mean that someone is a better hiker or a better person than any other hiker. Quite the contrary. Thru hikers are not "better. In most instances, they were simply individuals who were blessed, fortunate, lucky etc. They had a set of special circumstances converge which permitted them to drop out of the "real world" for 4-7 months. They then started walking and they didn't get injured, they didn't run out of money and/or they didn't give up. At the end of the day---"It's just walkin'". Rremember: "Everything is within walking distance if you have enough time"

If anyone impresses me, it is perhaps some of the section hikers who still manage to get out there and hike the trail---even as they attempt to somehow juggle jobs, families, limited vacation time, work responsibilities and significant financial struggles etc.. (And, having to regain your hiking legs each time that you start a new section hike is also impressive).

When it rains or snows--or when the outdoor temperatures are over 100 degrees--the same weather conditions are experienced by thru hikers, section hikers and weekenders alike. The mountains are the same height for all hikers. All types of hikers have to ford the exact same streams. Having a hierarchy or "pecking order" among hikers is really sort of silly.

Chaco Taco
05-15-2013, 05:49
I don't view thru hikers as rock stars who are deserving of special treatment. In my mind, completing a thru hike doesn't mean that someone is a better hiker or a better person than any other hiker. Quite the contrary. Thru hikers are not "better. In most instances, they were simply individuals who were blessed, fortunate, lucky etc. They had a set of special circumstances converge which permitted them to drop out of the "real world" for 4-7 months. They then started walking and they didn't get injured, they didn't run out of money and/or they didn't give up. At the end of the day---"It's just walkin'". Rremember: "Everything is within walking distance if you have enough time"

If anyone impresses me, it is perhaps some of the section hikers who still manage to get out there and hike the trail---even as they attempt to somehow juggle jobs, families, limited vacation time, work responsibilities and significant financial struggles etc.. (And, having to regain your hiking legs each time that you start a new section hike is also impressive).

When it rains or snows--or when the outdoor temperatures are over 100 degrees--the same weather conditions are experienced by thru hikers, section hikers and weekenders alike. The mountains are the same height for all hikers. All types of hikers have to ford the exact same streams. Having a hierarchy or "pecking order" among hikers is really sort of silly.
whats impressive is the hiker that helps clean up before leaving a hostel, or starts a load of laundry, asking the owner is there is anything they can do to help out or just doing something they know would help out around the place. Or the hiker that walks into Kincora and asks Bob Peoples if they can join him for a work day on the trail. These folks we never hear about. They are out there, but they dont walk around telling everyone what they did in search of recognition. We dont hear about these folks unless the hostel owner points it out. This is where I still say, 9-10 times you get really good folks out hiking.

Another thing Ill point out, Bayou is volunteering his time this year to help with The PLace in Damascus. Im sure he has the weight of Lone Wolf behind him as well and others we probably wont really hear about. These are the folks that help take care of that entitlement attitude and will run those sort of folks out of town.

Lone Wolf
05-15-2013, 06:44
Another thing Ill point out, Bayou is volunteering his time this year to help with The PLace in Damascus. Im sure he has the weight of Lone Wolf behind him as well and others we probably wont really hear about. These are the folks that help take care of that entitlement attitude and will run those sort of folks out of town.

he's running good folks out of town. power trips aren't good

Chaco Taco
05-15-2013, 06:45
he's running good folks out of town. power trips aren't good
well then Im sorry, I did not know. I had heard he was doing a great job. I was misinformed

HikerMom58
05-15-2013, 07:19
For me, the thing that impresses me about a thru hiker is the fact that they walked the entire trail, continuously. There's something to be said about that.
They experience the same thing that all types of hikers do but they don't get a break. There's something to be said about pushing through the mental and sometimes physical barriers that one would face in attempting a thru hike.

I realize that some hikers are hiking the trail for the "party" or just kinda lost. I not as impressed with those type of thru hikers. Although, I will always feel that hiking the entire trail, for whatever reason, is still impressive.

It's the hikers that I can relate 2 and their reason for hiking the trail that really blows me away.

I'm not impressed with the hikers that feel like they are "something special" while hiking the trail and the ones that continue the same attitude after they finish.

I knew someone that just finished hiking the trail, told someone random of their accomplishment and received no reaction at all. A lot of people have never heard of the AT and/or don't know much about it. The people that are the most "impressed" are the ones that love to hike.... the very ones that are so hateful sometimes and the most critical. That just blows me away......

JAK
05-21-2013, 08:20
Ok. Finally going to wade into the shallow end here. Or perhaps just dip my toe ;)

I desperately want my children to grow up with a can-do attitude, especially that hard work on the right things brings great rewards - much of which is not necessarily monetary. But I constantly fight a culture that seems to teach the opposite. I'm not entirely sure how. Are standards lower so that achievers reach lower to achieve and the cycle repeats? Do parents give privileges too freely to their kids so that they have an attitude of "I deserve it" without a corresponding "because I earned it?"

I agree that the entitlement attitude is not age-specific on the trail, though I see an alarming trend in young people both kids and young professionals (in my experience conducting hundreds of interviews). I fear the situation may degrade as the issue of hiker entitlement is dwarfed by the much larger issue of a growing sense of personal entitlement (and I'm not talking about political views here at all - just personal responsibility). Sometimes I'm positive that I must look like a nut to my kids because they have to work so hard to get everything and I ride them hard when they do a poor job. I just hope it works out as I hope when they are responsible for paying their own bills, holding a job and, gasp, raising their own children. I know my respect for my parents went up a ton when I graduated college and again when our first baby was born.

Fingers crossed, hands folded.Best wishes.
My motto is brainwash often and brainwash early. My daughter is 13 now, but she still listens, even though it may not seem so.
Can't just leave her to her friends and society, because friends and society don't get outdoors enough. Kick them or drag them outside to nature as much as you can without getting arrested and let nature do the rest. Regards. :-)

JAK
05-21-2013, 08:30
It just occurred to me that teenagers are no longer rebelling against society. They seem to be lapping the slop up just as fast as society is dishing it out. That tells you something right there. That's just messed up. Nature is the answer. Get them out there. The AT is hardly nature, any more than Canterbury Tales was religion, but at least it's along the way.

Dogwood
05-21-2013, 08:45
Dogwood's FIRST Commandment: Thou Shall NOT Whine.

Ron Haven
05-21-2013, 23:11
Chaco, you are right. Yes they are some great hikers `out there. Some of the best people on earth are hikers. It just seems like they are a few more who act stupid than they use to be..

nickgann
06-07-2013, 07:46
Fat girls talking about cardio... That's what the thread has become

Sunwolf
06-08-2013, 13:54
I just read through this entire thread and let me tell you, I'm upset.

First of all, my time is valuable and you people are not staying on topic at all. What's all this superfluous crap I'm seeing? As an American, I'm busy and I expect you all to be pithy.

Second, I resent the insinuation that I, as a hiker, am overly entitled. I'm entitled to only as much, and no more, as everyone else. When I'm on the trail that means I expect timely resupply points (a specific guide to upcoming trail magic for the season would be nice), a relatively manicured trail (I understand that some sections are remote...I guess weed-eating every other week would suffice), clean shelters (janitorial service once a week is pushing it but would do in a pinch if the day hikers pitched in and wiped up), a light pack (are there sherpas?), and entertainment (I'm bringing my own gimp).

HYOH

hikerboy57
06-08-2013, 15:05
Fat girls talking about cardio... That's what the thread has become

fat girls need love too.

HikerMom58
06-08-2013, 15:09
I'm so confused!!! :D

hikerboy57
06-08-2013, 15:13
I'm so confused!!! :D


hey, you're entitled (to feel that way)

atmilkman
06-08-2013, 15:16
fat girls need love too.

I suppose the Fat Bottom Girls video would be going too far.

BirdBrain
06-08-2013, 15:57
I suppose the Fat Bottom Girls video would be going too far.

Never seen it. Perhaps you should post it.

HikerMom58
06-08-2013, 15:59
never seen it. Perhaps you should post it.

no!!!!!! ...................

atmilkman
06-08-2013, 16:23
no!!!!!! ...................

I'm not gonna post HM. He's just trying to cause trouble. He's already seen the video. Probably has it in his favorites. In fact I'm sure he does. Have you seen the ones he's put on the jukebox. It's in that collection.

Lone Wolf
06-08-2013, 17:24
I'm so confused!!! :D

me too. i think i'm a lesbian...

Rasty
06-08-2013, 17:28
me too. i think i'm a lesbian...

The thought of you being a lesbian is kind of creepy!

It's mostly the bearded lesbian look that is weirding me out!

coach lou
06-08-2013, 17:30
The thought of you being a lesbian is kind of creepy!

It's mostly the bearded lesbian look that is weirding me out!
:-?................................................. ..................:eek:

hikerboy57
06-08-2013, 18:14
me too. i think i'm a lesbian...


im still having a problem picturing you hiking in robes

Tuckahoe
06-08-2013, 18:17
Aahhh what the hell... I'm just post ho'ing now...





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sailing_Faith
06-08-2013, 18:23
This thread has left the tracks....

I DO think there has been a change, I have seen it in my lifetime. I drove a car I bought, with my own money and fixed up.... Go look in a high school parking lot today. Some of these kids are driving nicer cars then their parents.

Why? I suppose it is not surprising that our society expects government to "take care of them" since so many have come to expect it... Not trying to turn political, so I will stop there.

Entitled hikers? Why not, so much of our society seems to feel "entitled" hiking need not be unique.

What is cool, the part that can not be circumvented is that you have to do it. Even with the griping about the approach some take to the trail... If you are there, you walked there. :)

HikerMom58
06-08-2013, 18:40
Aahhh what the hell... I'm just post ho'ing now...







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Giddy up .................:p

HikerMom58
06-08-2013, 18:41
me too. i think i'm a lesbian...

Not a chance!!! :o

hikerboy57
06-08-2013, 19:32
when i first posted on this thread, i thought it was mostly an age thing, that youth today have more entitlement issues than we did.but our fathers said the same thing about us, and their fathers probably did the same.i no longer feel this way.
i think its more about the evolution of the at itself.it was an awesome experience for me to hike north with the bubble this spring for 6 weeks.i normally dont look to backpacking as a social experience, used to taking solo trips and enjoying that solitude and feeling of self reliance.I can relate to those "old timers" who feel sad to see the way the trail has changed.ive spent a lot of time on the at in the northeast,and met plenty of thruhikers up north, but the attitude of those i met in nh and maine was a bit different among the spring bubble.we know how immensely popular the idea of completing a thru hike has become as each year we see record #s making the attempt. but there comes along with it an expectation, a certain feeling of entitlement for a support system to be in place 100% of the time. now i certainly didnt see this in the majority of hikers, but young or old, there were a few who had trouble dealing with minor inconveniences.of course if you've already hiked as far as nh or maine, you've learned to deal with just about anything thrown at you, so i would expect that some of these kids, young and old, will be broken of their entitlement issues by the time they summit katahdin.(although i have met a few a-holes in the north too.)
in the end its all good.

AngryGerman
06-10-2013, 11:23
Man do I have some input on this topic! I need to wrap my thoughts around this because this very topic encompasses way more than just the LDH community. I want you folks older then 30 to think real hard about this; what were the very things instilled unto you from a very young age? In my world it was responsibility, ethics, morals, trust etc. all of which needed to be displayed on a regular basis in order for me/us to earn privileges and the very things I/we wanted as a child. If I/we didn't meet ALL criteria I/we got squat! Todays society allows parents to forego teaching all the above mentioned because technology is there to teach, mentor and guide for them and that friends is partially where the disconnect is. Instead of parenting we allow technology to parent for us and we are showing our children how to be irresponsible through our inept ability to be responsible. It all starts from the top down, irresponsible government, religious and educating officials all the way down to the parents and their children. Is talking/texting while driving with your child in the car responsible, we feel entitled to do so because we A) have a vehicle, B) we have the phone and C) are not ethically correct! Who all reads this may think I've wondered off topic, but when you really take a minute to think about it, entitlement occurs when quality's, as stated above, are not taught and folks well... just don't get it.

staehpj1
06-10-2013, 14:03
I want you folks older then 30 to think real hard about this; what were the very things instilled unto you from a very young age? In my world it was responsibility, ethics, morals, trust etc. all of which needed to be displayed on a regular basis in order for me/us to earn privileges and the very things I/we wanted as a child.

I am over 60 and have to say that some of the young-ish adults of today have better values instilled in them than a lot of the folks I grew up with. Some of the younger generation have poor "responsibility, ethics, morals, trust etc.", but that isn't new or unique to their generation IMO.

TD55
06-10-2013, 14:20
I am over 60 and have to say that some of the young-ish adults of today have better values instilled in them than a lot of the folks I grew up with. Some of the younger generation have poor "responsibility, ethics, morals, trust etc.", but that isn't new or unique to their generation IMO.

Not new to or unique to their genation or the youth of any generation. I shake my head or give a giggle whenever I here about "the good ol' days". Folks like to point out or remember the good stuff and forget about or leave out the bad stuff. Texting while driving, what a joke. In the good ol' days drunk driving was acceptable. When the cops stopped you they would tell you to go straight home and be careful. God knows how many got dead over the decades from drunk driving. Oh, the good ol' days when a 12 year old kid could buy cig's with a wink and a not and hang out on the corner an smoke 'em. Back when people couldn't use the same bathroom, motel or restaurant or vote if they weren't a certain color. And don't fool yourself into thinking there wasn't massive entitlement going on. Everyone was entitled to a decent paying job, a home and an education. Thats why we built highways and bridges and had charitable non-profit hospitals. We have always had entitlements, always been guilty of bad behavior and always struggeled with right and wrong, positive and negative.

tawa
06-10-2013, 19:27
In my humble opinion the only individuals on the trail that are entitled to anything are those trail maintainers that make it possible for the rest of us. Yet is'nt it amazing how humble and grateful they are as they quietly go about doing their work.
Maybe those with the rock star entitlement attitude should volunteer to help clean out the privys.

hikerboy57
06-10-2013, 19:41
Not new to or unique to their genation or the youth of any generation. I shake my head or give a giggle whenever I here about "the good ol' days". Folks like to point out or remember the good stuff and forget about or leave out the bad stuff. Texting while driving, what a joke. In the good ol' days drunk driving was acceptable. When the cops stopped you they would tell you to go straight home and be careful. God knows how many got dead over the decades from drunk driving. Oh, the good ol' days when a 12 year old kid could buy cig's with a wink and a not and hang out on the corner an smoke 'em. Back when people couldn't use the same bathroom, motel or restaurant or vote if they weren't a certain color. And don't fool yourself into thinking there wasn't massive entitlement going on. Everyone was entitled to a decent paying job, a home and an education. Thats why we built highways and bridges and had charitable non-profit hospitals. We have always had entitlements, always been guilty of bad behavior and always struggeled with right and wrong, positive and negative.

why are we so fond of the "good old days"?

we were younger.

atmilkman
06-10-2013, 19:47
why are we so fond of the "good old days"?

we were younger.

I miss the good old days. :rolleyes: I bought cigarettes at 12 years old. I bought my first BB gun at the same age from a Western Auto with just a phone call from my momma. Walked down the street with it all the way home. It was a Daisy Pal. Cost $6.50 total. Took me forever to save up for it.

Drybones
06-10-2013, 19:52
I miss the good old days. :rolleyes: I bought cigarettes at 12 years old. I bought my first BB gun at the same age from a Western Auto with just a phone call from my momma. Walked down the street with it all the way home. It was a Daisy Pal. Cost $6.50 total. Took me forever to save up for it.

You must have been a rich kid...I had to smoke rabbit tobacco and grape vines and shoot a sling shot made from a stick and blow out inner tube.

atmilkman
06-10-2013, 20:04
You must have been a rich kid...I had to smoke rabbit tobacco and grape vines and shoot a sling shot made from a stick and blow out inner tube.

Well, really 4 of us had to chip in and buy the cigs. Then we would row the boat across the river from my grandma's house, climb a tree and smoke 5 cigarettes in a row. We'd get dizzy as hell and stagger around for about an hour and then row back. We'd pocket our milk money and drink water. Skip a lunch or two that week and take a sandwich from home. We called slingshots flips. Carved them out of pallet slats. Soaked inner tubes in kerosene to make them stretch. Oh yeah. We were entitled to do this because we were the future baby boomers.

Drybones
06-10-2013, 20:59
Well, really 4 of us had to chip in and buy the cigs. Then we would row the boat across the river from my grandma's house, climb a tree and smoke 5 cigarettes in a row. We'd get dizzy as hell and stagger around for about an hour and then row back. We'd pocket our milk money and drink water. Skip a lunch or two that week and take a sandwich from home. We called slingshots flips. Carved them out of pallet slats. Soaked inner tubes in kerosene to make them stretch. Oh yeah. We were entitled to do this because we were the future baby boomers.

I have a pretty nice truck now with all the gadgets but 10 years from now I wont remember it...but I'll still remember that first bicycle I put playing cards on the wheels to make it sound like it had a motor.

mumbls
06-30-2013, 19:00
The vast majority of hikers are great folks.


This is so good to hear. The horror stories of addlebrains make me think my hike might be a very lonely one.

Wise Old Owl
06-30-2013, 20:35
me too. i think i'm a lesbian...


And you get mad at me for my comments? Too funny LW..

Wise Old Owl
06-30-2013, 20:38
why are we so fond of the "good old days"?

we were younger.

We were not responsible. We were required to trustworthy, kind, and so naive. Then came Carrol O'Conner and removed all the doubt.

Wise Old Owl
06-30-2013, 20:41
Oh and Chris Rock, Billy Crystal, Bill Cosby, Woopie.. Need I go on?

Wise Old Owl
06-30-2013, 20:52
Not new to or unique to their genation or the youth of any generation. I shake my head or give a giggle whenever I here about "the good ol' days". Folks like to point out or remember the good stuff and forget about or leave out the bad stuff. Texting while driving, what a joke. In the good ol' days drunk driving was acceptable. When the cops stopped you they would tell you to go straight home and be careful. God knows how many got dead over the decades from drunk driving. Oh, the good ol' days when a 12 year old kid could buy cig's with a wink and a not and hang out on the corner an smoke 'em. Back when people couldn't use the same bathroom, motel or restaurant or vote if they weren't a certain color. And don't fool yourself into thinking there wasn't massive entitlement going on. Everyone was entitled to a decent paying job, a home and an education. Thats why we built highways and bridges and had charitable non-profit hospitals. We have always had entitlements, always been guilty of bad behavior and always struggeled with right and wrong, positive and negative.

I will be down in Ocean City Saturday with my wife at Harpoon Hanna at the Tiki bar... The first round is on me...If you cant make it... I will be there Sunday... It will be a great discussion for you to pull up a chair and discuss the trail.

I promise. After 4:30!

oruacat2
07-02-2013, 02:33
and thats why we want our kids to see what backpacking has to offer-happiness without all the "stuff"

True, but even with backpacking you see it creeping-in: I must have the newest, lightest tent, the best sleeping bag, the coolest boots, the greatest stove, etc.
"The stuff" changes, but does the attitude?

hikerboy57
07-02-2013, 06:29
True, but even with backpacking you see it creeping-in: I must have the newest, lightest tent, the best sleeping bag, the coolest boots, the greatest stove, etc.
"The stuff" changes, but does the attitude?well, the attitude is up to us and how we raise them.the more they do it, the more function trumps fashion.

hoffhiker
07-10-2013, 13:53
My grandpa was a God fearing man who when on the AT the only book he took was the bible and taught me the only entitlements we had on the trail was a peaceful walk in the woods with God

Dogwood
07-10-2013, 15:33
Entitled people, hence entitled hikers, are nothing new. They suck. We can analyze why it occurs...to death. So what. That doesn't change a darn thing. Having a sense of entitlement is disgusting and offensive.

However, I'm getting really annoyed with:
1) all those hostels that expect me to give them a reasonable donation - they should give me a free stay

2) the inconsiderate hikers who expect me to take down my hammock or erected tent inside a shelter when I'm trying to hang or camp peacefully - they should just suck it up and sleep outside the shelter

3) those idiots who keep telling me I shouldn't leave my leftover garbage or uneaten food in the campfire ring. - don't they know it will all be burnt up by the next person lighting a campfire or the animals need to eat too? These are the same idiots that tell me I don't need to light a HUGE fire when I know everyone else always enjoys a HUGE bonfire on a hike, or not to cut down live trees for fuel when trees always grow back, or that I need to make sure that my fire is completely extinguished when I leave when it CERTAINLY does rain on the AT. Duh! .

4) those who complain about me writing and painting graffiti in the shelters - haven't they heard of my right to "FREE" artistic expression?

5) those who expect or ask me to do trail maintenance or construction - this is really offensive to me because there are an overwhelming number of paid people who do that. Besides they should know I have no education in this type of demeaning physical blue color labor.

6) the bitchy unreasonable biz people who complain when I strew my dirty smelly hiker clothes around the laundromat, stink up the restaurant, etc - they should realize I'm providing them with my dollars

7) that Standing Bear Hostel guy who complains when I don't pay for the food I took based "on paying on the honor system" - this really shouldn't be a big deal to him because how much could it possibly cost him when I take a few "FREE" Pop Tarts, energy and candy bars, and some Lipton Side Meals. Besides he's insured, I think. He charges way too much, $10 a night, anyhow! What does he expect when he bases goods and services paying on the honor system anyhow? I just did what anyone else would do! He also didn't immediately grant me all my desires when I decided to graciously stop by his place. I don't recommend his place. Same with those religious cult nuts up in Rutland VT. Stay away from them too.

8) those hoity toity AMC idiots who expect me to pay or perhaps do a work for stay to go through the White Mts. I really don't care that they have a lot invested in the amenities there. This is a "FREE" country so I should have a right to go where I want, take what I want, and do what - they should just suck it up and provide some grub and a roof over my head when I'm hiking. The Gov't pays them for those amenities and besides they too overcharge anyhow.

9) those that mention it would be legally difficult to obtain all the licenses to hunt, fish, or carry my concealed firearm on an entire AT thru-hike - there's way too much legislation in this country therefore I'm going to avoid the parts of it I think are overly burdensome to me. The AT is a dangerous place anyhow, A man needs to protect himself in the wilderness!

10) all those hikers who don't hike like me - this really annoys me because these ignorant hikers obviously haven't found out that my way is the BEST way
Entitled hikers suck! They don't belong in my world!

shelb
07-11-2013, 01:04
Nicely said, Dogwood.....

The entitlement issue....as someome who has been working with youth for 20 years.... I can say that it just gets worth. (Please realize, not all are this way!). I blame it on a generation of parents.

Today's children are being raised by people who had parents who were raised by depression era people. Example: As a 47 year old, my grandma went through the depression. She was VERy frugal and passed that on to my mom. My mom told me to be frugal about some things - but spend on other things. Well, many people my age/younger feel they do not need to be frugal - in fact - they need to give it all to their kids.... yeah...don't I hear it all the time from my kids about how the others get more than they do. .... TOO BAD!!!

Pony
07-14-2013, 01:56
I've met a lot more people in real life who feel entitled than I did on the trail. You just stick out a little more when you're thru hiking. People with entitlement issues tend to suck on or off the trail.

Nasty Dog Virus
07-14-2013, 10:34
Yesterday I was coming down to Swatara Gap when I caught a whiff of entitlement in the air. Sure enough, there sat two young thru's with their thumbs out looking to hitch a ride into Lickdale. I slowed down enough to let them get a little excitment, then smiled as I flipped them the bird and continued on. It was a beautiful day ;)

Sarcasm the elf
07-14-2013, 10:44
I've met a lot more people in real life who feel entitled than I did on the trail. You just stick out a little more when you're thru hiking. People with entitlement issues tend to suck on or off the trail.

Agreed 100%, most people I've met while hiking are great, which really makes it stand out when I meet the occasional jackwagon on the trail.

Dogwood
07-14-2013, 13:16
I find it so, ummm, amusing when entitled Americans talk about anyone else including hikers, other Americans, etc having a sense of entitlement.:o

Hard to look at a person's actions separate from their beliefs and thoughts. They are connected.

rocketsocks
07-14-2013, 15:27
Yesterday I was coming down to Swatara Gap when I caught a whiff of entitlement in the air. Sure enough, there sat two young thru's with their thumbs out looking to hitch a ride into Lickdale. I slowed down enough to let them get a little excitment, then smiled as I flipped them the bird and continued on. It was a beautiful day ;)
Ok, you really need to post that here and ask for forgiveness :D
https://www.facebook.com/HikerTrashConfessions

Dogwood
07-14-2013, 15:48
They should have wiped those conceded grins off their thru-hiker pusses and put a lonely lost puppy dog look on their faces when they want a ride. Helps to limp a bit too.

I think you would have been even more satisfied if you told them why you weren't going to give them a ride after stopping. It can be discouraging when you think someone is stopping to give you a ride, especially if you've been hitching for a while, and then you suddenly are getting an earfullllll of a Dr Phil or DR Nasty Dog Virus pep talk.

Nasty Dog Virus
07-14-2013, 21:41
Ok, you really need to post that here and ask for forgiveness :D
https://www.facebook.com/HikerTrashConfessions

You'll have to do that for me. I'm not on Facebook.



They should have wiped those conceded grins off their thru-hiker pusses and put a lonely lost puppy dog look on their faces when they want a ride. Helps to limp a bit too.

I think you would have been even more satisfied if you told them why you weren't going to give them a ride after stopping. It can be discouraging when you think someone is stopping to give you a ride, especially if you've been hitching for a while, and then you suddenly are getting an earfullllll of a Dr Phil or DR Nasty Dog Virus pep talk.

Ha. I think you're right, Dogwood! Next time :D

Crazy Larry #1
07-15-2013, 06:40
Been reading occasionally about Thru- Hikers with sense of "entitlement." In many cases it sounds to me like most of these hikers are simply a little young. Still in that "the world owes me this hike" sort of phase. Granted I'm sure you see this in older hikers occasionally but the hikers who fit the bill in my opinion have just needed a few years on them. Doesn't make it right of course. Any suggestions we could pass along?

Yes I have a suggestion! I say we set up spanking stations the first 500 miles of the trail on each terminus so when we have one who feels they are entitled then we bust their butt.....that will get them in line......

rocketsocks
07-15-2013, 11:35
You'll have to do that for me. I'm not on Facebook.





Sorry Dog, not on Face book either...but there's a link there that allows you to post "Hiker Confessions" anomalously through "Survey Monkey"


http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/H7JYXPZ

Old Hiker
07-15-2013, 12:11
Yes I have a suggestion! I say we set up spanking stations the first 500 miles of the trail on each terminus so when we have one who feels they are entitled then we bust their butt.....that will get them in line......

Great. Now we'll get all SORTS of weirdos - "What?? I can get spanked on the AT for FREE??? Just for acting like I normally do???"

I mean, different weirdos than are usually seen on the AT.

Just sayin'.

Crazy Larry #1
07-16-2013, 14:28
Great. Now we'll get all SORTS of weirdos - "What?? I can get spanked on the AT for FREE??? Just for acting like I normally do???"

I mean, different weirdos than are usually seen on the AT.

Just sayin'.

my weirdness comes from Lone Wolf......been living around him way too long....

Siarl
11-20-2013, 10:31
I work in the hospitality industry and I live and work just outside of a National Park. I encounter entitlement almost on a daily basis. People who arrive here have questions about what activities and such are available. The odd thing about this area is that no one has a numbered address, business or residential. We all have PO Boxes. A couple of questions really stand out the most. 1.) Either over the phone or email I am asked, "What is your address so I can put it in my GPS?" and "Do you have cell service there?" They don't particularly enjoy my answer to either question. And that's when I get the response of, "Well, how am I supposed to find you if you don't have a numbered address?" as well as, "I have AT&T". Yes well, again, that doesn't change my answer of five seconds ago, you need to refer to your provider.

I don't know if it's just U.S. citizens that think that if they don't get cell service it's an injustice somehow or if it's just everywhere. And then to have to refer to a map is absolutely below them. I am wondering if I will encounter that on the AT. I hope not.

hikerboy57
11-20-2013, 10:36
you will. .

Namtrag
11-20-2013, 10:39
Makes you wonder how we even survived and found stuff in the old days since we didn't have cell phones or gps devices. We must have been a lot smarter back then.

Old Hiker
11-20-2013, 11:39
Makes you wonder how we even survived and found stuff in the old days since we didn't have cell phones or gps devices. We must have been a lot smarter back then.

Nah. Darwin played a LARGE role in those situations.

I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do hereby leaveth my bear rifle to whatever finds it. … It is a good rifle and killed the bear that killed me. Anyway, I am dead. Yours truly, Hatchet Jack.

RED-DOG
11-20-2013, 11:45
Any body regardless of age spends a few months on the AT or any other trail, will start to feel they are entitled to few free things from time to time, in my oppinion it's all the free Trail magic that gives people this ENTITLEMENT ATTITUDE.

RED-DOG
11-20-2013, 11:48
I work in the hospitality industry and I live and work just outside of a National Park. I encounter entitlement almost on a daily basis. People who arrive here have questions about what activities and such are available. The odd thing about this area is that no one has a numbered address, business or residential. We all have PO Boxes. A couple of questions really stand out the most. 1.) Either over the phone or email I am asked, "What is your address so I can put it in my GPS?" and "Do you have cell service there?" They don't particularly enjoy my answer to either question. And that's when I get the response of, "Well, how am I supposed to find you if you don't have a numbered address?" as well as, "I have AT&T". Yes well, again, that doesn't change my answer of five seconds ago, you need to refer to your provider.

I don't know if it's just U.S. citizens that think that if they don't get cell service it's an injustice somehow or if it's just everywhere. And then to have to refer to a map is absolutely below them. I am wondering if I will encounter that on the AT. I hope not.

YES YOU WILL, all the time.

Pedaling Fool
11-23-2013, 16:30
There's a dirty little flip side to this Entitlement issue and it does present somewhat of a dilemma. When you watch stories like this (below link) you begin to realize we Americans display a certain amout of entitlement mentality.

Many of us do expect a certain level of perfection in our foods when we go to the grocery store, including not having bugs in them. So many other examples if you think about it, but you really have to think about it, because we don't see them as entitlements; we just see them as standard. However, many people in 3rd world countries would definitely call us out on our radical entitlement mentality.

What comes, around goes around :)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/23/black-widows-grapes-us-supermarkets-midwest_n_4329380.html

kayak karl
11-23-2013, 16:56
radical entitlement mentality because we expect no bugs in the food we buy. LOL

Wise Old Owl
11-23-2013, 17:19
Actually I see this every day ... radical mentality because we expect no bugs in the food or e coli in our ice and water.

squeezebox
11-23-2013, 17:40
I have a big garden, bugs happen. get used to it.

WingedMonkey
11-23-2013, 18:02
Conversation of last week:

Mother: I threw out that self-rising flour, it had bugs in it, put it on your shopping list.

WingedMonkey: I know. They were in there two weeks ago when I made carambola cobbler.

Mother: Why didn't you throw it out then?

WingedMonkey: I only use the self-rising for cobbler, and they were small and all on top. Couldn't see any after I baked it.


I then fished it out of the garbage (was in a plastic grocery bag) dampened it down and fed it to my other bugs. The Black Solider Fly Larva I raise to feed my critters and compost my waste.

MuddyWaters
11-23-2013, 21:52
Even if theres no bugs, theres probably bug stuff.

Strangest thing happened one time. I had a small jar of cayenne pepper. Tight fitting lid was sealed up.
This jar of cayenne was in back of cabinet and was OLD. About 10 yrs or so. It had bugs all in it. I know it didnt for many years, and it hadnt been opened either for many years. I can only assume dormant eggs were present or something that hatched under the right circumstances.

Wise Old Owl
11-23-2013, 22:57
I thought we were talking about entitled hikers?

Slo-go'en
11-23-2013, 23:36
I'm entitled to hike, with or without bugs. Preferably without bugs, but most of the time it has to be with bugs. ;)

Slo-go'en
11-23-2013, 23:42
I'm entitled to hike, with or without bugs. Preferably without bugs, but most of the time it has to be with bugs. ;)

I should be entitled to delete a double post, but it seems I can only edit it...errr...

Wise Old Owl
11-24-2013, 00:59
Call a gator,,,, They eat double posts for lunch! Ha


You have the entitled right as a human being to smile and not be offended... :sun

jdc5294
11-24-2013, 12:13
For the most part on my hike, I saw thru hikers being the least entitled of all the people I saw. I developed the opinion that "the trail filters out ********", the farther you're on it the fewer you'll see. This activity (lifestyle I guess you could call it if you do it for 6 months at a time) doesn't lend itself to people who feel entitled.

Drybones
11-25-2013, 09:54
For the most part on my hike, I saw thru hikers being the least entitled of all the people I saw. I developed the opinion that "the trail filters out ********", the farther you're on it the fewer you'll see. This activity (lifestyle I guess you could call it if you do it for 6 months at a time) doesn't lend itself to people who feel entitled.

I agree, day hikers were the entitled ones I saw. Sunday afternoon in northern VA the trail was loaded with day hikers, many of which had no trail etiquette, they'd run you right off the trail without slowing down.

bamboo bob
11-25-2013, 10:07
I just wanted to make sure Jeff's comment got repeated. My experience of thru-hikers is that they are tough, resilient, funny and generous.

Completely true. The annoying people disappear as you get further north. After Harpers Ferry there are very few left. But really, the jerks stand out but there are very few of them.