View Full Version : 2013 Self-supported record attempt.
Scott "Messenger" Simcox
I'll be starting June 2 and going North.
No rides, no planned magic and no mail.
A friend will be getting emails and he'll keep a trailjournal (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=15326) updated.
I'm very aware of why this record has lasted so long but hope for the best.
If I fail I hope it's not due to injury so I can at least finish out and verify logistics for another future attempt.
Have you hiked the AT before?
topshelf
05-19-2013, 13:24
good luck to you.
as ive gotten more and more into long distance trail running and ultras, I've thought about trying something like this, even doing a section for a week or two to see how far I can get.
I'll be keeping up with ya through your trail journal.
MuddyWaters
05-19-2013, 13:26
All you gotta do is average 35+ miles per day, in the mountains, with a loaded pack for two months straight in the summer heat.
What could be hard about that?
Good luck.
Many announce, few are legitimate.
yellowsirocco
05-19-2013, 13:56
I couldn't care less.
Slo-go'en
05-19-2013, 14:09
Better June and July then April and May - less gear to carry and more daylight, although doing a lot of night hiking would be of benifit to avoid the heat of day and having to talk to a lot of people along the way.
Good luck, the last guy to try apparently didn't get too far. Be sure to check back in and let us know how far you got.
Half Note
05-19-2013, 14:16
How did you get your trail name?
I couldn't care less.
You cared enough to read the thread and post. Hmmmmm
Scott, good luck.
fredmugs
05-19-2013, 17:15
I would love to see somebody legitimately take this on and succeed. I would take and post lots of pics (if you can).
Yes.
There's a lot that will be hard, believe it or not.
I took messages uptrail for people.
I'd like to see someone succeed too. :)
MuddyWaters
05-19-2013, 20:15
Id like to see someone succeed.
The people that can do it are literally one in a million, and come with an extensive hiking resume.
To do it, GA has to be an "overnight " hike , Springer to Fontana 4 days max, etc. Its truly a monumental undertaking.
Violent Green
05-20-2013, 19:02
Scott,
Best of luck to you! If you can do the miles, the rest will be to keep your body from breaking down. I hope you've trained to help your body get used to it. I think JPD said she trained for two years before making her attempt and she still had a lot of leg & stomach issues.
Ryan
I'll be cheering for you.
Also think yout trail name is very appropriate. ;-)
Also...
oneiropompus = conductor of dreams
Godspeed
stranger
05-26-2013, 02:54
Ward hiked 1000 miles before he turned around and set the record...people seem to forget this, training for this needs to be an absolute priority, get that right and you got a shot. If it were me I would start at Damascus and hike south to Springer, with the aim of getting through GA in 2 days, take 4-5 zeros and start north! Good Luck!
BostonBlue
05-26-2013, 05:20
Scott-Do you have a tentative plan yet? How many days do you anticipate for each individual state?
lilricky
05-31-2013, 01:12
Good luck Scott! I too am curious about your plan. Also, I was looking over your gear list, it looks like you got it pared down pretty well. Just one suggestion, instead of taking that syringe to backflush your Sawyer filter, you might want to look at this thread at Hammockforums (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72512&highlight=smartwater). It will shave another 30 grams off your back and a heck of alot of bulk.
Anyone know if he started yesterday, and if so, how it's going?
grateful 2
06-04-2013, 01:16
I have looked for this thread on the hammockforums and I'm having trouble finding it. Can you give me some help with the title or a keyword search? I would like to shave 30 g off of my pack also, thanks.
Good luck Scott! I too am curious about your plan. Also, I was looking over your gear list, it looks like you got it pared down pretty well. Just one suggestion, instead of taking that syringe to backflush your Sawyer filter, you might want to look at this thread at Hammockforums (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72512&highlight=smartwater). It will shave another 30 grams off your back and a heck of alot of bulk.
jersey joe
06-04-2013, 08:48
Anyone know if he started yesterday, and if so, how it's going?
Just a 6/1/13 entry in trail journals that states he is headed to the trail...sounds like the hike is at least getting started.
"Leaving for Amicalola and the approach trail soon. Gear and food is all prepared
along with an itinerary that I'm sure will be wrong before the first
resupply."
Apparently ScottS has started his attempt. Good luck! I'll be watching his TJ to see how he does.
Who holds the current self-supported hike record?
max patch
06-04-2013, 16:54
Well, Ward Leonard holds the UNsupported record. Are there any wrinkles in a SELFsupported attempt that warrant a new category? Or is Matt saying the same thing just using different words?
Self supported and unsupported are essentially the same in this context. I believe the unsupported means that all resupply is carried from the beginning which really isn't practical on a trail the length of the AT. Would have meaning on the JMT or LT.
Well, Ward Leonard holds the UNsupported record. Are there any wrinkles in a SELFsupported attempt that warrant a new category? Or is Matt saying the same thing just using different words?
I think that's the record he's going for, which if I'm not mistaken is 60.5 days. Scott would have to average nearly 36.5 miles a day. (add 10 miles per week for off trail resupply), I day of food to Neel Gap, 2 through the Smokys, in the wilderness, he'll only need 3 days, 2 nights. It should be easy for him to carry no more than 10lbs.
I don't know if Scott can break it but it seems doable.
Apparently ScottS has started his attempt. Good luck! I'll be watching his TJ to see how he does.
Who holds the current self-supported hike record?
Can you post the link to his TJ or is the name obvious? Thanks!
jersey joe
06-05-2013, 11:37
Can you post the link to his TJ or is the name obvious? Thanks!
He has the link to his trailjournal in his first post. Here it is again: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=15326
It would be fun if ScottS turns out to seriously have a shot at the record headed north while Matt Kirk is going for the same record headed south! Could make for an interesting converation when the meet in the middle.
atmilkman
06-05-2013, 11:54
He has the link to his trailjournal in his first post. Here it is again: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=15326
It would be fun if ScottS turns out to seriously have a shot at the record headed north while Matt Kirk is going for the same record headed south! Could make for an interesting converation when the meet in the middle.
I wish that link to his gear list worked. I'd like to see it.
Link works fine if you cut and paste into your browser
jersey joe
06-05-2013, 13:10
I wish that link to his gear list worked. I'd like to see it.
Link works fine if you cut and paste into your browser
Yes you can copy and paste the link. Here it is again: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=11405
This is the first time i've seen the geargrams.com site...pretty cool!
atmilkman
06-05-2013, 16:49
Yes you can copy and paste the link. Here it is again: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=11405
This is the first time i've seen the geargrams.com site...pretty cool!
Thanks jersey joe. What do you suppose the weight savings is with the Petzl e+Lite headband vs. the stock Black Diamond Spot.
stranger
06-07-2013, 05:39
Well, Ward Leonard holds the UNsupported record. Are there any wrinkles in a SELFsupported attempt that warrant a new category? Or is Matt saying the same thing just using different words?
Semantics my friend, someone pulled self-supported out of their ass years ago and now we have 3 categories, what I find amusing is that on an modern day 'unsupported' hike it does not apply to water, just food.
I remember when we said...'did someone support the hike' and the answer was yes = supported. If NO ONE supported the hike then the answer was no = unsupported. Can't wait to see what's next!
Cookerhiker
06-07-2013, 09:22
Semantics my friend, someone pulled self-supported out of their ass years ago and now we have 3 categories, what I find amusing is that on an modern day 'unsupported' hike it does not apply to water, just food.
I remember when we said...'did someone support the hike' and the answer was yes = supported. If NO ONE supported the hike then the answer was no = unsupported. Can't wait to see what's next!
How about semi-supported?:D
Is there any confirmation that he's started?
I hadn't been to a spot where I had signal to email my friend to update the journal.
I failed hard and fast. Got sick the second day and spent three days with severe stomach pains and countless trips into the trees.
A little ways into GSMNP I realized my attitude had shifted from expecting to finish to wondering how long I could keep going. A person's mental/emotional state is much more important than their physical, in my opinion, and with where I was now I knew I wouldn't make it the rest of the trip. Quitting now or quitting in a few weeks is still failing. Horseshoes, hand grenades,etc.
Maybe a new record by Matt will be inspiring. Hope the best for him.
Re: support
The AT is very easy to do with no rides or maildrops (I'm aware of the irony of saying it's easy after failing, but I'm speaking in terms of resupplies). Having something shipped to you or brought to you by a friend is the same thing. You just have to carry more on some days and deal with a couple more expensive resupplies. Logistics are another factor which make this record unique. I didn't have a resupply planned that was more than 2 miles offtrail. A person has to be very familiar with the trail to do this.
I don't see the point of having a record with asterisks ( only two drops). You either do it all yourself or you don't.
Re: petzl
It saved about an ounce if I remember right. You have to find the old elite straps.
I hadn't been to a spot where I had signal to email my friend to update the journal.
I failed hard and fast. Got sick the second day and spent three days with severe stomach pains and countless trips into the trees.
A little ways into GSMNP I realized my attitude had shifted from expecting to finish to wondering how long I could keep going. A person's mental/emotional state is much more important than their physical, in my opinion, and with where I was now I knew I wouldn't make it the rest of the trip. Quitting now or quitting in a few weeks is still failing. Horseshoes, hand grenades,etc.
Maybe a new record by Matt will be inspiring. Hope the best for him.
Re: support
The AT is very easy to do with no rides or maildrops (I'm aware of the irony of saying it's easy after failing, but I'm speaking in terms of resupplies). Having something shipped to you or brought to you by a friend is the same thing. You just have to carry more on some days and deal with a couple more expensive resupplies. Logistics are another factor which make this record unique. I didn't have a resupply planned that was more than 2 miles offtrail. A person has to be very familiar with the trail to do this.
I don't see the point of having a record with asterisks ( only two drops). You either do it all yourself or you don't.
Re: petzl
It saved about an ounce if I remember right. You have to find the old elite straps.
Sorry to hear that it didn't work out. I love to see a record broken.
Anything in your planning or gear that you would have done differently? Do you plan to try again?
Thanks for providing the closing chapter. On the support vs no support, I think you're splitting hairs whether you use maildrops or not. I believe the standard that Scott Williamson established will become quasi official. If you choose to use stores vs maildrops then great but it doubt it will be viewed as a different catagory. Fastest known times lists the categories quite clearly. Hope to see you take another shot.
stranger
06-07-2013, 20:39
And fastest known times wasn't around when Ward was hiking and this record was set...regardless of what Williamson's opinion is, it doesn't translate to Ward's record...Ward hitched into towns, etc...
Sorry to hear you came up short, very impressive for trying!
Sorry to hear you got sick.
...Re: support
The AT is very easy to do with no rides or maildrops...
I respectfully disagree as evidenced by the reality that most people don't find the AT easy, let alone very easy, WITH rides and maildrops. The logistics of no rides might be simple, but they're not easy. Theory and reality are often very different critters.
Yes, the mental game (including an appropriate level of confidence) is very, very important to setting an AT thru-hiking record, and so is an extremely rare level of physical fitness, and so is enough experience and so is good luck. I know I couldn't do it, but I know there are a tiny handful of people who could, and someday will.
Thanks for updating us.
I'm confident my planning and training was good. I wasn't happy that I didn't get my own gear designs ready for this trip, but what I brought was adequate. I wouldn't recommend cuben fiber for dry/stuff sacks (or packs).
Uncertain about next year. Not at a point right now to decide.
The easiness is concerning resupplies. I obviously disagree on maildrops for this record but also recognize it's unlikely to ever have an "official" ruleset for something that is honor-based. Without having done the PCT, I'm under the impression resupply options there compared to the AT are very different. If I attempt again, I still wouldn't use any maildrops.
stranger
06-11-2013, 07:48
I'm confident my planning and training was good. I wasn't happy that I didn't get my own gear designs ready for this trip, but what I brought was adequate. I wouldn't recommend cuben fiber for dry/stuff sacks (or packs).
Uncertain about next year. Not at a point right now to decide.
The easiness is concerning resupplies. I obviously disagree on maildrops for this record but also recognize it's unlikely to ever have an "official" ruleset for something that is honor-based. Without having done the PCT, I'm under the impression resupply options there compared to the AT are very different. If I attempt again, I still wouldn't use any maildrops.
If you trained well and felt prepared, why not try again now? Probably in great shape after a few 37 mile days? Just curious?
Lone Wolf
06-11-2013, 07:50
Ward's record will not be broken
jersey joe
06-11-2013, 09:28
I believe the record will be broken eventually. Maybe even this year(Kirk).
Does anyone know what the second fastest unsupported hike is after Ward's 60.5?
Slo-go'en
06-11-2013, 11:46
Ward's record will not be broken
This is one thing I agree with LW on. Those who have been trying to beat Ward's record haven't had nearly the experiance or the conditioning Ward had at the time. So far, everyone who has tried hasn't gotten very far before they had to quit for one reason or another.
Violent Green
06-11-2013, 13:16
Of course it will be broken. The only reason it hasn't been broken yet is because no one has attempted it who was actually prepared. I think Matt Kirk has a great shot - UL hiker with previous AT experience, plus is used to doing big miles for days on end. If Matt doesn't break it, it will be within the next five years.
Ryan
Of course it will be broken...
Absolutely.
MDSection12
06-11-2013, 15:32
Ward's record will not be broken
The only logical reason I could see to hold that position would be if Ward didn't really accomplish it in the first place. If Ward fudged the numbers a bit then I could see it actually being an impossible goal... But if he did it then you better believe someone else will do better eventually.
It is far from impossible. If someone can hike the trail in mid Oct they late December in 70+- days then cherry picking long days with good weather would make this very achievable. I can think of at least a half dozen folks that could break this record, not that ever attempt would be successful. I'm trying to talk one of these people out of retirement so this "can't be nonsense" will stop. It is so very easy to say it can't be done, then to say wow, look at what just happened when the record is broken which it will.
max patch
06-11-2013, 17:24
Of course the record will be broken at some point although I hope it never is. Roger Maris broke Babe Ruths record with an asterisk because the season was longer. Ward carried equipment from the 80s - so whoever breaks his record will also have an asterisk in the minds of many.
Studlintsean
06-11-2013, 18:11
Maybe we should test for PEDs also...
stranger
06-11-2013, 19:32
The only logical reason I could see to hold that position would be if Ward didn't really accomplish it in the first place. If Ward fudged the numbers a bit then I could see it actually being an impossible goal... But if he did it then you better believe someone else will do better eventually.
Haha...Ward was a machine, an absolute machine, remember he did this of his own free will, in 1990, the same year he completed 3 thru-hikes plus 340 more miles...he also had a 1000 mile warm up before trying.
The strongest natural hiker in AT history, with 1000 miles preparation, with an obsessive mind and little desire to socialize...that's why no one else has broken it.
Even if broken today it's not the same..., so many advantages now compared to 1990, there will never be another Ward, and I'm glad he is still remembered for his amazing accomplishments.
Lone Wolf
06-11-2013, 20:54
Haha...Ward was a machine, an absolute machine, remember he did this of his own free will, in 1990, the same year he completed 3 thru-hikes plus 340 more miles...he also had a 1000 mile warm up before trying.
The strongest natural hiker in AT history, with 1000 miles preparation, with an obsessive mind and little desire to socialize...that's why no one else has broken it.
Even if broken today it's not the same..., so many advantages now compared to 1990, there will never be another Ward, and I'm glad he is still remembered for his amazing accomplishments.
yup :)........
Last I heard or recall, Nature Boy was doing great until he got "bonked" on the head outside of Waynesboro......was tracking at like 45+ miles per day unsupported
Jennifer Pharr was headed South at the same time, was wondering how much time they would spend chatting when they passed.
Sadly, never happenned.
Who is next? I am just curious. How many brawled mens without experience (or with some, by theirs measurements) will try to do it again, and again, and again...? I am just curious.
fiddlehead
06-11-2013, 22:22
Even if broken today it's not the same..., so many advantages now compared to 1990, there will never be another Ward, and I'm glad he is still remembered for his amazing accomplishments.
And one disadvantage today: The internet and cyber hikers obsessive following and looking for the slightest bump in someone's challenge.
What happens if he or she gets a ride to Cabelas with the public bus?
Or a piece of the trail gets flooded and people go around it?
Or he walks into a shelter to get water by a blueblaze and hikes out by another blueblaze?
Each and any of these would have someone probably reporting it and some disqualifying the hiker.
What else? If he fords the Kennebec instead of taking the boat? I don't know for sure but imagine Ward forded it once or twice.
Or even another hiker offering to throw his trash away for him at a grocery store.
Rules are too strict anymore.
Just hike folks.
The only logical reason I could see to hold that position would be if Ward didn't really accomplish it in the first place. If Ward fudged the numbers a bit then I could see it actually being an impossible goal... But if he did it then you better believe someone else will do better eventually.se
Also, since Ward set the record in 1990 the trail has grown by 30-40 miles. That's an extra day right there.
Of course the record will be broken at some point although I hope it never is. Roger Maris broke Babe Ruths record with an asterisk because the season was longer. Ward carried equipment from the 80s - so whoever breaks his record will also have an asterisk in the minds of many.
Does Jennifer Pharr-Davis have an asterisk? If anything a longer trail would make up for any perceived modern-day advantage.
stranger
06-12-2013, 07:01
Last I heard or recall, Nature Boy was doing great until he got "bonked" on the head outside of Waynesboro......was tracking at like 45+ miles per day unsupported
Jennifer Pharr was headed South at the same time, was wondering how much time they would spend chatting when they passed.
Sadly, never happenned.
Yeah he was doing well, strange circumstances, or perhaps he just quit, the whole thing was very odd, I thought he was gonna do it!
Trillium
06-12-2013, 11:34
Well, Ward Leonard holds the UNsupported record. Are there any wrinkles in a SELFsupported attempt that warrant a new category? Or is Matt saying the same thing just using different words?Never heard of this hiker before so I googled. Interesting article: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-07-12/features/0007120018_1_appalachian-trail-trail-bosses-hot-summer/2
Ridgerunners are trained to tread gently around such personalities, but to take careful note as well, in case trouble develops later.
Perhaps the trail's most famous hiker ever, and one who eventually became a problem, is Ward Leonard, 39. He began thru-hiking in 1981 and is believed to hold the unofficial record for the fastest hike - 58 days - for an "unsupported hike," meaning no one helped feed him along the way. That's an average of about 37 miles a day across the most rugged terrain east of the Mississippi. One year he did a "yo-yo," going up and down the trail.
A bit possessive
But as the years passed, Leonard grew possessive of the trail, shouting down hikers or lecturing them on his achievements. Thru-hikers began calling him Spooky Boy. Two years ago, he awakened an overnighter at a shelter by shining a flashlight in his face. He ordered the man off the trail.
Authorities banned Leonard from the trail for two years and helped him get counseling. But he did apparently make a cameo stop at a trail shelter on a summer weekend trip with his father. He left behind bar graphs of his hiking achievements in the shelter logbook, plus a multiple choice quiz about himself.
Slo-go'en
06-12-2013, 12:39
The interesting thing is, none of the recent attempts to break the speed record have come even close to finishing. If one or more speed hikers were to actually finish the trail, maybe not breaking the record but at least coming in with-in a week or so, then maybe there would be a chance someone would eventually achive the goal. But since no one has even come close, it seems likely the chances of someone doing so are really slim.
The interesting thing is, none of the recent attempts to break the speed record have come even close to finishing. If one or more speed hikers were to actually finish the trail, maybe not breaking the record but at least coming in with-in a week or so, then maybe there would be a chance someone would eventually achive the goal. But since no one has even come close, it seems likely the chances of someone doing so are really slim.
In 2010 Galilee Man claimed to have hiked the trail in 65 days...just short of Ward's record.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=322013
Lone Wolf
06-12-2013, 21:17
you may have the miles and fit body to do a 60 day walk but nobody has the mindset of Ward Leonard. he did 50s for training. good luck all you wannabes :)
Captain Blue
06-12-2013, 22:02
In 2010 Galilee Man claimed to have hiked the trail in 65 days...just short of Ward's record.
Claim is right. On July 2, 2010 he claimed to do 53 miles in one day in the Whites. Then claimed to finish at Katahdin on July 10. There are lots of gaps in his trail journal to support such a claim.
I have never understood these "records" . there is one record for speed, and that's the fastest anyone has done it.... not supported/unsupported..... maybe we can start a semi-supported record (one conjugal visit and a ride out of town ???) .... someone even told me there is a bare foot record !! I guess we should start doing all records like this... 100 meter dash, under 5 feet record, long haired record.....
just seems these are all made up so dumb people like us can have something to talk about.
There is one speed record, and Jennifer Pharr Davis has it.
Lone Wolf
06-12-2013, 22:25
There is one speed record, and Jennifer Pharr Davis has it.
sorry kid, you're wrong
sorry kid, you're wrong
Oh im sorry, I guess she hiked that OTHER Appalachian trail, I always get them confused... sorry my mistake.... just because you don't like the way she did it doesn't mean she didn't do it.... unless you are saying someone has done it faster then her 46 days ?? in which case I would love to hear about it, I like to learn new things about the trail.
Lone Wolf
06-12-2013, 22:35
Oh im sorry, I guess she hiked that OTHER Appalachian trail, I always get them confused... sorry my mistake.... just because you don't like the way she did it doesn't mean she didn't do it.... unless you are saying someone has done it faster then her 46 days ?? in which case I would love to hear about it, I like to learn new things about the trail.
she was SUPPORTED. lot easier than UNSUPPORTED;. kids...
and im saying you're walking the same trail !! doing the same activity !! I guess we should have a marathon supported/unsupported record.. if you take water while running its supported, I mean someone helped you, if you make it all the way without water ( and you don't die) its unsupported ???
its the same activity on the same trail. its going from point A to point B as fast as you can.
Lone Wolf
06-12-2013, 22:48
and im saying you're walking the same trail !! doing the same activity !! I guess we should have a marathon supported/unsupported record.. if you take water while running its supported, I mean someone helped you, if you make it all the way without water ( and you don't die) its unsupported ???
its the same activity on the same trail. its going from point A to point B as fast as you can.
you don't get it. good night.
you don't get it. good night.
oh I understand just fine
Maybe we should start a supported/unsupported academic records in school.. supported record are for kids with both parents, unsupported is with only 1 or none.... I mean they are doing the same classes, learning the same material.... but those supported kids have it so much easier!!! SOB's!!! lol
Oh I think I have the unsupported/keys in my left shorts pocket, while wearing a goofy hat record, 142 days.
MuddyWaters
06-12-2013, 23:39
and im saying you're walking the same trail !! doing the same activity !! I guess we should have a marathon supported/unsupported record.. if you take water while running its supported, I mean someone helped you, if you make it all the way without water ( and you don't die) its unsupported ???
its the same activity on the same trail. its going from point A to point B as fast as you can.
Nope. LW is right, you dont get it.
Jen didnt have to carry anything, people walked with her frequently and even carried her water for her so she could maintain a 4+mph pace.
She was guided thru certain areas by people so she wouldnt get confused and waste even a minute.
She was met at road crossings with food and water, picked up in evening at 10pm -ish and went to hotel or camp that was pre-set up. Brought back at 5am to start hiking again.
Not taking anything away from her, she is absolutely an amazing athlete. Its just quite different task from having to carry your gear, supply yourself, make your camp at night, etc. To not differentiate the difficulty is absurd. There is interest in self-supported hiking speed record, because that is what many thru-hikers actually do, to some extent. Few slackpack the whole trail.
The really amazing thing, is wards record is only 13 days longer, than Jens fully supported record.
No doubt re-supplies have gotten much more available in the past 20+ yrs, and higher levels of traffic making getting a hitch easier , the internet and the trail guides put all the information you need at fingertips while on trail with a smart phone, and still Wards record stands.
and im saying you're walking the same trail !! doing the same activity !!
Go to the FKT website
http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=midatlantic&action=display&thread=6
These people, some of the most accomplished trail runners, adventurers, and so on, may disagree with you. :)
Basically, there are three types of records:
Supported - Basically ultra run style. A support crew at trail crossing and/or camps, hiking/running with the equivalent with a day pack
Self Supported aka Traditional Thru-hike - well, a thru-hike. :) You know backpack, go into town for re-supply, hitch back out and so on
Un-Supported - A newer twist in recent years. Arguably only possible on a "regional" trail (BMT, Colorado Trail, Long Trail and so forth). ALL your food is taken with you from the start. No extra food along the way
http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=west&action=display&thread=10
Why the difference? Because they are all different challenges.
Yes, JPD holds the fastest over-all, but I doubt many people would say it is the same as as a traditional backpack (including her..since she is an a avid backpacker, too). Hence the different records.
Put it you this way, there are many ways to climb Grand Teton, but there is a reason why different routes are rated differently and given a rough time for most people to complete. :)
So, you can disregard the different challenges and records. That's cool. But most, myself included, would argue there is a difference. Otherwise, let's lump in mtbikers and equestrians with hikers on The Colorado Trail for FKTs! ;)
The really amazing thing, is wards record is only 13 days longer, than Jens fully supported record.
I 100% agree his record is amazing, he is 10x the hiker I can ever hope to be. I completely understand the difference between supported/unsupported.... unsupported is MUCH MUCH harder! Ward Leonard is a stud, I bow to his greatness!
All im saying is these records are made for people like us to talk about, nothing more. what I mean by that is it only matters to think hiking community.
if I asked you the question, what is the fastest plane ever flown? simple answer SR71.... now we can sub conversations about fastest bi wing, or open cockpit.... but the answer is SR71 ( which might not be the fastest anymore, I heard they are testing some kind that goes faster now) and maybe the fast bi-wing record is more impressive when you set down and look at it, but its still not the overall record.
when someone asks what's the fast anyone has done the Appalachian trail, then answer is JPD.
Yes, JPD holds the fastest over-all, but I doubt many people would say it is the same as as a traditional backpack (including her..since she is an a avid backpacker, too). Hence the different records.
Put it you this way, there are many ways to climb Grand Teton, but there is a reason why different routes are rated differently and given a rough time for most people to complete. :)
So, you can disregard the different challenges and records. That's cool. But most, myself included, would argue there is a difference. Otherwise, let's lump in mtbikers and equestrians with hikers on The Colorado Trail for FKTs! ;)
where do you draw the line on 'different challenges " should there be a no hiking poles record ? no sleeping bag record ?? a wake up at 10am record ??? an only hike at night record ?? they are all different and unique challenges, so does that mean there should be records to go with them ? to me the record holder is whoever gets from point A to point B the fastest in whatever activity is going on.
its clear we have a difference of opinion, I hope I didn't offend anyone.. well maybe lonewolf j/k...
I personally don't think there should be ANY AT record!! but that's another story.
I think a better analogy here is the record for the 100m dash vs. the record for the 100m hurdles. But of course all records and their categorizations are just human constructs based upon human interests. Which records and categorizations are "worthwhile" is entirely subjective.
where do you draw the line on 'different challenges " should there be a no hiking poles record ? no sleeping bag record ?? a wake up at 10am record ??? an only hike at night record ?? they are all different and unique challenges, so does that mean there should be records to go with them ? to me the record holder is whoever gets from point A to point B the fastest in whatever activity is going on.
its clear we have a difference of opinion, I hope I didn't offend anyone.. well maybe lonewolf j/k...
I personally don't think there should be ANY AT record!! but that's another story.
We have a few famous records like the fastest unsupported and supported and then we have some honorable mentions like the youngest/oldest thru hiker of AT or the first blind hiker or barefoot hiker and records like that. They are all honorable mentions but not so many hikers are interested in breaking honorable records. One may decide to hike AT backward and he/she could be the first and the achievement is interesting but not something that many hikers will talk about it. When it comes to Everest these days there are so many record holders and still just one fixed summit. Same goes for AT.
stranger
06-13-2013, 08:56
I have never understood these "records" . there is one record for speed, and that's the fastest anyone has done it.... not supported/unsupported..... maybe we can start a semi-supported record (one conjugal visit and a ride out of town ???) .... someone even told me there is a bare foot record !! I guess we should start doing all records like this... 100 meter dash, under 5 feet record, long haired record.....
just seems these are all made up so dumb people like us can have something to talk about.
There is one speed record, and Jennifer Pharr Davis has it.
Sorry...this is just not the case. Ward Leonard left Springer with a backpack and hiked to Maine in 60.5 days without any support team. He made his own way into trail towns to resupply, he set up his own tent, he relied only on himself, and more importantly...he set the bar. What JPD did is impressive, but another thing entirely. History proves this...Horton, Maineak, Palmer, Thompson, JPD...the supported record keeps falling, but Ward's 1990 record still stands. Gailee Man aside, no one has even come close.
I agree with Lone Wolf, people have no understanding of what Ward was like, how his brain worked. Machine, pure hiking machine.
Odd Man Out
06-13-2013, 09:57
...Which records and categorizations are "worthwhile" is entirely subjective.
Which is why they have telephone pole throwing contests in Scotland :)
Claim is right. On July 2, 2010 he claimed to do 53 miles in one day in the Whites. Then claimed to finish at Katahdin on July 10. There are lots of gaps in his trail journal to support such a claim.
But you'll take Ward's word for it?
hikerboy57
06-13-2013, 10:01
Which is why they have telephone pole throwing contests in Scotland :)
its called tossing the caber:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrCdN2j7SQA.
Sorry...this is just not the case. Ward Leonard left Springer with a backpack and hiked to Maine in 60.5 days without any support team. He made his own way into trail towns to resupply, he set up his own tent, he relied only on himself, and more importantly...he set the bar. What JPD did is impressive, but another thing entirely. History proves this...Horton, Maineak, Palmer, Thompson, JPD...the supported record keeps falling, but Ward's 1990 record still stands. Gailee Man aside, no one has even come close.
How many have tried to break it (self-supported backpack)? For the most part all you hear of supported attempts at the fastest time.
to me the record holder is whoever gets from point A to point B the fastest in whatever activity is going on.
So hiking, mtn biking and equestrian records should all be in the same bit bucket for FKT? :)
So hiking, mtn biking and equestrian records should all be in the same bit bucket for FKT? :)
Don't forget Pogo-Sticks!
Feral Bill
06-13-2013, 11:08
its called tossing the caber:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrCdN2j7SQA. I once worked cutting small trees for grape stakes. We tossed them down the hill, in stages, to the truck, Tossing the caber then made sense ad a useful skill.
MDSection12
06-13-2013, 11:20
I guess we should have a marathon supported/unsupported record.. if you take water while running its supported, I mean someone helped you, if you make it all the way without water ( and you don't die) its unsupported ???
Terrible analogy. With marathons the activity is running, none of the other stuff matters because the race is about who runs fastest. With hiking the activity isn't just walking; it's about the whole strategy of how to arrange the logistics... As a hiker I'm not interested in how fast someone can run the trail with zero gear and a team waiting for them at every trailhead, I'm interested in how fast someone can hike it, as I would, with gear.
This may be the only time you can get Lone Wolf to admit it's not just walking, but I'd bet he'll agree with me in this case. :)
jersey joe
06-13-2013, 15:19
I believe that Ward's record has stood for so long because there really haven't been many SERIOUS attempts to break it. Most people who say they are going for it are young, inexperienced, first time hikers who barely make it through 5 days of hiking.
The only serious/legit attempt I can recall in the recent past was by Nature Boy who was is a legit long distance hiker. (he's done a couple 500 mi. trail runs lately) He was on pace to break Ward's record and had an unfortunate incident.
Of course, Matt Kirk did just start a record attempt SOBO. This seems like a serious/legit challenge to me.
stranger
06-13-2013, 18:01
How many have tried to break it (self-supported backpack)? For the most part all you hear of supported attempts at the fastest time.
Every year there seems to be 1-2 people who have a crack at it, none get very far, then there are those who try and keep it quiet
stranger
06-13-2013, 18:11
I believe that Ward's record has stood for so long because there really haven't been many SERIOUS attempts to break it. Most people who say they are going for it are young, inexperienced, first time hikers who barely make it through 5 days of hiking.
The only serious/legit attempt I can recall in the recent past was by Nature Boy who was is a legit long distance hiker. (he's done a couple 500 mi. trail runs lately) He was on pace to break Ward's record and had an unfortunate incident.
Of course, Matt Kirk did just start a record attempt SOBO. This seems like a serious/legit challenge to me.
I agree somewhat, I would put my money on a number of people to break it, interestingly enough, clearly, those people are not interested in doing it. It's the more impressive record for me, I find no interest in the supported trips, don't know why...just seems like a completely different thing.
I've never hiked 40 miles and had someone take me to a motel and cook me dinner, or meet me at a road crossing and patch up my feet, but I have walked a 30 mile day carrying my pack, hitched into town and had a pizza... So this is what I relate to.
MuddyWaters
06-14-2013, 00:04
I personally don't think there should be ANY AT record!! but that's another story.
Well your in luck because there really isnt.
I mean, its all anecdotal. Not formal, no rules. Honor system
No way to insure someone didnt cheat, or yellow blaze.
And its probably a good thing too
You can be fairly certain that someone WILL try to achieve almost any record by cheating.
When someone previously unheard of comes out of the woodwork and does the impossible, they probably have.
CELTIC BUCK
06-14-2013, 00:57
What's the record and what's the point of it?? To be a speeder & push your self to the kill zone? June 2 running July& August thru Virginia ;Pa and New England humidity ; good Luck to ya Lad cause you are going to need it and then some.
stranger
06-14-2013, 02:21
What's the record and what's the point of it?? To be a speeder & push your self to the kill zone? June 2 running July& August thru Virginia ;Pa and New England humidity ; good Luck to ya Lad cause you are going to need it and then some.
What's the point in anything? VALUE
Either you value something like this or you don't...you clearly don't. I don't like cheese, but I don't go around asking people why they eat it.
Lone Wolf
06-14-2013, 05:58
What's the record and what's the point of it?? To be a speeder & push your self to the kill zone? June 2 running July& August thru Virginia ;Pa and New England humidity ; good Luck to ya Lad cause you are going to need it and then some.
what's the point of a thru-hike? the destination for sure
What the point of golf?
To have some fun for 4 hours, I think
Keeping score and having a personal goal for your round isn't required to have fun, but it sure adds something to that meaningless activity.
Same principle applies to thru hiking.
Every year there seems to be 1-2 people who have a crack at it, none get very far, then there are those who try and keep it quiet
If you can point out 4 people that attempted a unsupported or self-supported hike in the last 5 years I'd be surprised. Stealth record attempts? What's the point?
If I'm not mistaken the PCT record is 64 days and it's nearly 500 miles longer. It also has its unique challenges, the AT doesn't have. It's only a matter of time before Ward is removed from the record books.....
In 2011, Williamson set a new PCT speed record, unsupported, by completing the trek in 64 days, 11 hours, 19 minutes. Like the 2009 record, this new record broke both the supported and unsupported speed records. The new record equates to an average distance of approximately 41.1 miles (66.1 km) per day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Williamson_(hiker)
Lone Wolf
06-14-2013, 18:21
It's only a matter of time before Ward is removed from the record books.....
pretty unlikely
max patch
06-14-2013, 21:44
I wonder what Ward's record would be if he could have gotten rid of his 1980s era backpacking equipment and carried the same 14 pounds that Matt Kirk is doing.
stranger
06-14-2013, 22:25
If you can point out 4 people that attempted a unsupported or self-supported hike in the last 5 years I'd be surprised. Stealth record attempts? What's the point?
If I'm not mistaken the PCT record is 64 days and it's nearly 500 miles longer. It also has its unique challenges, the AT doesn't have. It's only a matter of time before Ward is removed from the record books.....
Stealth attempts...funny you mention Williamson, well you ever hear of Adam Bradley? Adam Bradley is the guy Williamson first set the overall record with, which happened to be unsupported...they broke Horton's record. Well Bradley left unannounced 12 days behind Williamson/Kinsey the year they hiked, so yes, people try things without announcing them. Not everyone shouts it out on the internet, when Ward hiked there was no internet.
In terms of the PCT vs the AT, they are different trails. How much rain to you think the PCT hiker sees between Campo and the Oregon Border, some 1700 miles? An AT hiker might see more rain before they get out of Georgia. Plus all miles are not equal, my hardest days have not been my 30 mile days, my hardest days have been 20 miles over PA rocks, or 8 mile days in New Zealand where I had to ford a waist deep river 6 times. So while yes, the PCT is longer, it does not necessarily equate to a harder trail to hike.
I do think IF Williamson wanted to break Ward's record, he could do it. So could Skurka, Lichter, Robinson, The Onion, Kinsey, Bradley, etc... But the fact remains, Ward Leonards record has not been broken. Even when it does fall, as others have said...it's still not the same. It's much, much harder to set the bar than break it, especially mentally. And Ward set the bar back in 1990, the same year he thru-hiked 3 times plus another 340 miles or so. Remeber 1980's hiking gear? I do, no thanks.
It will be cool to see someone break the record, but until they do, they haven't. And even when they do...they will be no Ward Leonard.
Stranger,
i hiked the PCT the same year that Scott set the PCT record. I met him in Wa and I can assure you that his send off from the Canadian border had quite a lot of snow. In spite of this he still keep his record pace. And the rocks in PA don't even come close to the area around Glacier peak at least in '11. I gave a 100% day and only eeked out 28 miles yet was able to pull off a 52 mile day north of Port Clinton in the heart of the PA rocks. I have zero doubt that Scott could give the AT record a run but his absolute love for the PCT will likely keep the record safe from at least him.
I would also throw Swami into the mix as someone that could best the record. Hiking 70 days in the winter after doing 13,000 in the previous 15 months and setting the CDT record and hiking more miles in a year than anyone proves that he has the ability. But again I seriously doubt he has the desire, he has moved on to more ambitious activities much like Skurka.
Edit: Swami hiking the AT in 70 days in the winter
stranger
06-15-2013, 04:18
Stranger,
i hiked the PCT the same year that Scott set the PCT record. I met him in Wa and I can assure you that his send off from the Canadian border had quite a lot of snow. In spite of this he still keep his record pace. And the rocks in PA don't even come close to the area around Glacier peak at least in '11. I gave a 100% day and only eeked out 28 miles yet was able to pull off a 52 mile day north of Port Clinton in the heart of the PA rocks. I have zero doubt that Scott could give the AT record a run but his absolute love for the PCT will likely keep the record safe from at least him.
I would also throw Swami into the mix as someone that could best the record. Hiking 70 days in the winter after doing 13,000 in the previous 15 months and setting the CDT record and hiking more miles in a year than anyone proves that he has the ability. But again I seriously doubt he has the desire, he has moved on to more ambitious activities much like Skurka.
I just used the rocks as an example cause that was my experience, Williamson is the strongest hiker I've ever heard of, so won't debate you there. But regardless, he stays off the AT for whatever reason.
k2basecamp
06-18-2013, 06:15
I wonder what Ward's record would be if he could have gotten rid of his 1980s era backpacking equipment and carried the same 14 pounds that Matt Kirk is doing.
Hey, nothing wrong with 1980's equipment !
Stealth attempts... you ever hear of Adam Bradley? ... Well Bradley left unannounced 12 days behind Williamson/Kinsey the year they hiked, so yes, people try things without announcing them. Not everyone shouts it out on the internet, when Ward hiked there was no internet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20iLz0uuoc
In terms of the PCT vs the AT, they are different trails.
I'm well aware of that, I've hiked them both.
I just used the rocks as an example cause that was my experience, Williamson is the strongest hiker I've ever heard of, so won't debate you there. But regardless, he stays off the AT for whatever reason.
Williamson completed a thru-hike of the AT in 1995, by starting at the southern tip of Florida, hiking northward on the Florida Trail, continuing northward 400 miles (640 km) to get to the official start of the AT in Georgia at Springer Mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springer_Mountain), then completing the entire AT.
pretty unlikely
That's what they said about the sub four minute mile.
stranger
06-19-2013, 03:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20iLz0uuoc
I'm well aware of that, I've hiked them both.
I'm a little confused by your comments...we seem to be agreeing on things, am I missing something?
Scout620
11-14-2013, 06:28
Thanks for sharing lilricky!