View Full Version : I meant to go light, but I accidentally hit 20 lbs.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 00:24
I was really excited when my spreadsheet was totaling around 7 to 8 lbs. Somehow it quickly grew, roughly around 20 lbs right now.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agg0uMQ1NNE0dExWOHVTY3JJLWV6cGxWUVktZEVzY Wc&usp=sharing
I did hike in the rain for two fifteen mile days with an 18 lb. pack last weekend and it was great. So with food and water, I'm going to be pushing 25 to 30? I thought I was going light, but man, everything just adds up. All advice is appreciated and taken in for consideration, but if it isn't apparent yet, I blaze my own trail :)
And this still may be missing a couple things and of course I'll be wearing some of this stuff.
Much love,
Andrew
Maybe that is light wt. Depends on your standard.
"I was really excited when my spreadsheet was totaling around 7 to 8 lbs. Somehow it quickly grew......"
That can also apply to the 35 % Of Americans who are considered O B E S E. These statistics come from the Center for Disease Control(CDC). You might notice that this is NOT MERELY BEING OVERWEIGHT but being O B E S E or in in other words having a BMI > 30. Might also notice that the CDC studies diseases. Obesity = DISEASE. America is experiencing an Obesity Epidemic.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 02:48
Maybe that is light wt. Depends on your standard.
"I was really excited when my spreadsheet was totaling around 7 to 8 lbs. Somehow it quickly grew......"
That can also apply to the 35 % Of Americans who are considered O B E S E. These statistics come from the Center for Disease Control(CDC). You might notice that this is NOT MERELY BEING OVERWEIGHT but being O B E S E or in in other words having a BMI > 30. Might also notice that the CDC studies diseases. Obesity = DISEASE. America is experiencing an Obesity Epidemic.
You kind of lost me on the O B E S E part. Can you be more transparent? What do you mean?
Tuckahoe
06-02-2013, 06:55
Dont worry about Dogwood, he just likes to pontificate.
My take is that you should go over your list and think about each item, do you really need it? For example, your quilt is rated for the 25 to 30 degree range and unless you are pushing that tempreture rating, do you need the bag liner? And if you are using compactor bags to line your pack, do you need the protection of a pack cover? That is nearly 10 ounces there. You list three water container, a 2lt a 1 lt platy and a smart waterbottle. Can you leave the water bottle? You also list lighters and matches and two different strengths of deet. Can drop the lighter and one of the deet repellents as well? Thats to about 19oz total.
Personally, the items I want I'm going to carry, and I'll reduce weight by leaving things behind that I really do not want or need.
nastynate
06-02-2013, 06:57
Most people don't count the clothes they are going to wear in their pack weight. If you take out that and your poles, that drops total weight by almost 2.5 lbs. After that its a lot of little things. Are you thru hiking or just weekends? You have two different Deets at 8 oz total. Make your own first aid kit with just what you need in a ziploc. Should be 6-8 oz or less. You have 1.5 lbs in electronics. Maybe save some there? I don't know, I'm not a photographer. Your headlamp is listed at 64 ounces. If your spreadsheet is calculating off of that there is a huge chunk of weight. Could drop the pack cover since you have a liner maybe. Thats all I've got. Pretty nice list.
You've got room to cut some weight if you want.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 07:22
Your headlamp is listed at 64 ounces.
You sir, are awesome! It was 64 grams :) Converted it to ounces and now I'm below 16.5 lbs. Like I said, somehow it quickly grew.
I'll definitely look further into what everyone else has said to see how I may be able to shave some weight, but I must say I'm now quite happy. I also have started a Winter tab in the document in case it starts getting too cold. I'll probably look into a down jacket and a higher rated down sleeping bag. I also have an Alternatives tab which includes some lighter weight items such as a pack towel, backpack cover, trekking poles, and knife.
From experience, 30 lbs or maybe a little more is the norm. I carry about that much and I have never seen anyone out there any lighter. Don't know where these people hike that claim they are hiking with 20 lbs or less. Maybe they have already starved to death.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 07:45
From experience, 30 lbs or maybe a little more is the norm. I carry about that much and I have never seen anyone out there any lighter. Don't know where these people hike that claim they are hiking with 20 lbs or less. Maybe they have already starved to death.
I don't know. I'm now at 16 lbs and 3.4 oz. I could shave another 1.5 lbs by removing the electronics another lb by removing some other non-essentials and replacing some gear with lighter gear. And as also stated, some of this stuff won't be in my backpack (some clothes and shoes). Then I would be somewhere around 12 lbs. Fill that with food and water, and you would be at 20 lbs or less.
You sir, are awesome! It was 64 grams :) Converted it to ounces and now I'm below 16.5 lbs. Like I said, somehow it quickly grew.
When you corrected your spreadsheet did your shoulders feel better? :) in my light weighting process I was shocked how much all the little crap weighed. This is where gram weenieism is helpful just because of the number of items. Next time you hike, make note of every item not used and look to POTENTIALLY eliminate it. It is all too easy to just "throw it in and take it"
airman,
my total pack weight rarely exceeds 20 lbs, mostly less than 20. Where do I hike? Winter on AT(va,nc,tn), Bob Marshall Wilderness in Montana last weekend, PCT. once you have experience using a UL setup, it is easy to add or subtract a couple of items to match conditions. The following list is close to what I now carry. I added lightweight rain gear and substituted an xlite or xtherm for the airman and pad listed. Winter conditions will see a couple of additions. See http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/266a730bae662ff33a551a141c610474.pdf
hikerboy57
06-02-2013, 07:59
I don't know. I'm now at 16 lbs and 3.4 oz. I could shave another 1.5 lbs by removing the electronics another lb by removing some other non-essentials and replacing some gear with lighter gear. And as also stated, some of this stuff won't be in my backpack (some clothes and shoes). Then I would be somewhere around 12 lbs. Fill that with food and water, and you would be at 20 lbs or less.
yes you could shave a bit more weight,but if you're comfortable carrying the things youd like to have, it really doesnt matter. i use the sawyer squeeze bags for bladders.managing food and water weight is just as important as your base weight.as you hike, you'll figure out what you dont really need,you could always send stuff home.with 4 days of food and a liter of water, i was usually around 27-28 lbs on my section hike this spring, and i was lighter than most thrus i met.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 08:18
For example, your quilt is rated for the 25 to 30 degree range and unless you are pushing that tempreture rating, do you need the bag liner?
The bag liner is pretty much intended to keep the inside of the quilt cleaner longer and to provide some sense of luxury when I feel like sleeping in the nude.
And if you are using compactor bags to line your pack, do you need the protection of a pack cover?
Could drop the pack cover since you have a liner maybe.
I have two pack liner bags weighing 0.6 oz each and a pack cover weighing 3.9 oz. One pack liner is used to wrap my sleeping bag which is placed at the bottom of my pack. The other liner is used to wraped my extra clothes which is higher in my pack and also doubles as my pillow. The pack cover is blaze orange for hunting season and also I heard that a wet pack is a heavy pack. I'd rather carry the extra 3.9 oz the entire hike than worry about a pound or more of water soaked in the bag.
You list three water container, a 2lt a 1 lt platy and a smart waterbottle. Can you leave the water bottle?
You are right, I may be pushing the water containers. The platys are for gathering water and the water bottles are for after the water has been filtered. I thought two platys was being safe, in case one starts to leak. I also thought three water bottles was being safe, in case I start hiking into hot weather and water can be dry. Maybe I'm playing it too safe with the water containers?
Can drop the lighter and one of the deet repellents as well?
You have two different Deets at 8 oz total.
I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with having only one source of fire, but maybe I can drop the bic for a mini bic? As for the deet, yeah, I didn't put too much effort into this one. How long can I expect 1oz of 98% deet to last? I don't mind sending myself resupplies, but I would like to have around a weeks worth.
Are you thru hiking or just weekends?
Thru-hiking.
Make your own first aid kit with just what you need in a ziploc. Should be 6-8 oz or less.
I saw a good youtube video that modified the first aid kit I'm using. I'll look into this.
You have 1.5 lbs in electronics. Maybe save some there? I don't know, I'm not a photographer.
I'm probably pushing it with the electronics. The camera is also my GPS. I'm planning on tracking the entire trail along with lean-tos. I'm hoping to utilize the GPS logs to start making a hiking application that is built around a map. This is why I'm bring two camera batteries and a backup external battery for recharging. I also forgot to include my phone.
No water treatment?
I'm using a Sawyer Squeeze.
When you corrected your spreadsheet did your shoulders feel better?
Physically, no. But it relieved a lot of mental stress :)
Also, I may eventually cave on getting a sleeping frame. The closed-cell foam for my torso and backpack for my legs are comfortable enough, but sometimes I find the ground too cold and it seeps right through the pad/backpack and my sleeping bag.
coach lou
06-02-2013, 08:19
PLEASE..someone tell him....he's going to die out there!!!!!!!:eek:
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 08:21
PLEASE..someone tell him....he's going to die out there!!!!!!!:eek:
I heard you loud and clear. Why am I going to die?
hikerboy57
06-02-2013, 08:23
I heard you loud and clear. Why am I going to die?
coach lou's daypack is heavier than my full pack.he feels if you're not carrying a 5 lb cheesecake, you're not going to survive.
coach lou
06-02-2013, 08:27
PLEASE..someone tell him....he's going to die out there!!!!!!!:eek:
I heard you loud and clear. Why am I going to die?
Wait, I forgot 1 smiley:bse............just kidding:)
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 08:32
Wait, I forgot 1 smiley:bse............just kidding:)
Oh, you were being sarcastic. Well played :)
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 08:35
I'm totally bummed out. I wanted to use the last post as my signature, but smilies are not allowed :(
coach lou
06-02-2013, 08:38
Oh, you were being sarcastic. Well played :)
No No, not sarcastic......see the big smile in my pic....:D.....just joking around.....I have nothing useful to contribute to discusions about 'How to keep weight down'. I myself have learned much from the WB on how in fact to lighten the load. I have lowered my base weight down to perhaps ......30/35lbs!:sun
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 08:45
No No, not sarcastic......see the big smile in my pic....:D.....just joking around.....I have nothing useful to contribute to discusions about 'How to keep weight down'. I myself have learned much from the WB on how in fact to lighten the load. I have lowered my base weight down to perhaps ......30/35lbs!:sun
I started reading "AWOL on the Appalachian Trail" and AWOL writes of backpacks weighing 35 to 50 pounds. My jaw kind of dropped when I read this, but than I thought, "that was in 2003, surely this doesn't happen anymore." :)
Now I know I can sneak a three pound laptop in my backpack and no one would know unless they caught me in the act.
coach lou
06-02-2013, 08:50
I started reading "AWOL on the Appalachian Trail" and AWOL writes of backpacks weighing 35 to 50 pounds. My jaw kind of dropped when I read this, but than I thought, "that was in 2003, surely this doesn't happen anymore." :)
Now I know I can sneak a three pound laptop in my backpack and no one would know unless they caught me in the act.
See, now your gettin' the UL picture........................................... .........ultra-LOAD!:D
Maybe that is light wt. Depends on your standard.
"I was really excited when my spreadsheet was totaling around 7 to 8 lbs. Somehow it quickly grew......"
That can also apply to the 35 % Of Americans who are considered O B E S E. These statistics come from the Center for Disease Control(CDC). You might notice that this is NOT MERELY BEING OVERWEIGHT but being O B E S E or in in other words having a BMI > 30. Might also notice that the CDC studies diseases. Obesity = DISEASE. America is experiencing an Obesity Epidemic.
BMI is a bunch of BS, as it is merely a function of height and weight. Someone who is 5'11" and 190 lbs. is labelled as overweight, whether he has 30% body fat or 5% body fat. Percentage body fat is a meaningful measure.
HikerMom58
06-02-2013, 12:47
BMI is a bunch of BS, as it is merely a function of height and weight. Someone who is 5'11" and 190 lbs. is labelled as overweight, whether he has 30% body fat or 5% body fat. Percentage body fat is a meaningful measure.
That is true ^ ! The only way to accurately measure the percentage of body fat is to get in water.
Yeah don't mind me AF. It was a little obscure. Kinda unrelated. That's what you sometimes get at 2 :30 in the morn. Pontification
What are you looking to do AF, drop more wt? That's hard to gram weenie dial in unless we know where and when your hiking, how you hike, etc.Taking kit wt out of that context leads to potential issues including making unfair comparisons between the kit wt you listed and other folk's kits. When UL folks get into pissing contests describing obscene low wt it's often under their best case scenario. Make sure you compare oranges to oranges and apples to apples. We can make general suggestions if that's what you want. You already have a low wt kit IMHO. I wouldn't get stressed over the wt of your kit. That's a decent light wt kit!
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 14:31
What are you looking to do AF, drop more wt? That's hard to gram weenie dial in unless we know where and when your hiking, how you hike, etc.Taking kit wt out of that context leads to potential issues including making unfair comparisons between the kit wt you listed and other folk's kits. When UL folks get into pissing contests describing obscene low wt it's often under their best case scenario. Make sure you compare oranges to oranges and apples to apples. We can make general suggestions if that's what you want. You already have a low wt kit IMHO. I wouldn't get stressed over the wt of your kit. That's a decent light wt kit!
Thanks dogwood. I am happy after that 3lb+ error was found. I believe I was also given enough information to cut some more ounces if I want. I can also fork up some more money for lighter equipment if needed.
I think my only unanswered question is about the Deet. How long could I expect this (http://www.amazon.com/Repel-94098-100-Percent-Repellent-0-475-Ounce/dp/B0037TQLRM/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1370197727&sr=1-2&keywords=repel+100+deet&tag=r601000010-20) to last in the most buggiest part of my trip (starting Mt. Katahdin on July 5)?
That is true ^ ! The only way to accurately measure the percentage of body fat is to get in water.For men you can get a pretty accurate estimate of %fat using your waistline. For myself, I am 6' tall, and currently my lean body mass is about 150 pounds.
So for me...
33" waist = 10% fat (as percentage of lean body mass)
36" = 20%
39" = 30%
42" = 40%
Needless to say, I would like to be 33" to 36", but I am stuck in the 40-43" range.
Biggest problem for me, junk food. When I exercise, I feel better, and eat less junk food.
So the real secret is to exercise regularly, and the secret to that is motivation.
So what's the secret to motivation ???
Read somewhere recently... motivation comes from 3 sources
1. Self-determination = feeling you are in control, or feel good about doing what you do
2. Belongingness = feeling you are part of a group, or valued by others for what you do
3. Competence = feeling you are good at something, doing something well, or getting better at it
I think nature can play a strong roll in all three aspects of motivation. Nature has a lot of bandwidth.
Stay tuned.
So a good rule of thumb might be to get and keep your waistline less than half your height.
hikerboy57
06-02-2013, 17:23
So a good rule of thumb might be to get and keep your waistline less than half your height.
some people are just short for their weight
da fungo
06-02-2013, 17:52
When Andrew Skurka completed the first Sea to Sea thru-hike in 2005, he handled the spare battery problem (he carried a full sized DSLR) by having his mom mail fully charged spares to his mail drops. He'd mail back the depleted batteries for recharging (and his dirty clothes for laundering).
Unless you, too, have a martyr for a mother, you might want to make other plans.
Gray Blazer
06-02-2013, 17:53
For my weight, by the height/weight chart, I'm supposed to be eight and a half feet tall.
For what it's worth, I like you AF. I like that you are appreciative and willing to here folks out even if they do pontificate at times.:o
OK so here's the big pic of what I'm getting: AT SOBO starting July 5 doing some GPS tracking trying to squeeze out a bit more wt. You already have been given some good suggestions. Agree, when attempting to squeeze out another 2 lbs or so it is ALWAYS nice to find a 64 oz(4 lbs) to 64 gm(2.26 ozs).
All these ideas involve choices and consequences! DO NOT lose sight of that. These are only ideas. See if any appeal to YOUR WAY of doing thrings.
Unless you plan on cowboying or want it under you in shelters ditch the polycro. Be mindful of where and what's under the Contrail though.
Sierra Sniveler is rated 25-30* You can go to warmer bag/quilt at some pt. An Enlightened Equip, Zpacks, Mount Laurel Designs, warmer rated JRB etc quilt can save you between 7-11 0z. Heck, even my WM Highlite SLEEPING BAG in LONG is 17 oz(with hood, 1/2 zip). Remember the integration of your gear. If you are mainly going to be in a shelter or in the Contrail that's going to add some warmth to the sleeping equation.
I personally NEVER take along a silk bag liner JUST to keep my bag clean. I primarily do it to extend the warmth of my sleeping bag/quilt. Ditch it. Choices have to be made! It's either the Cocoon mummy silk liner or the thermal bottoms. The thermal bottoms and one of your several tops will keep your bag clean.
You can get lighter trekking poles saving another 6+ ozs. i have the BD Ultra Distance collapsable trekking poles in the 130 cm length that weigh just under 11 oz. You might even be able to shave another 2 ozs off that if you really want to be a hard edge gram weenie
AM two part drops.
Why so much sunblock? 1 0Z tubes are available.
Too much DEET. You can get it in 2-3 oz bottles or a little spritzer or even get the Don't Bite me patches weighing less. It's the AT; ressuply pts every 3-6 days or so. Buy more when you need it. NO NEED hauling stuff you can regularly find along the way and buy as you run out.
Two mini bics stored in different places or a mini bic and WP matches are fine.
That 3.3 oz food cook system included the wt of fuel too? How much fuel? Hmm?
Look for a multi function watch for the AT. - watch, altimeter, compass, etc To each their own but the AT is well marked well signed and you're heading SOBO in July. Compass not needed.
As far as bear bagging all you need is 25 ft of UL spectra and a stuff sack to tie onto.
Too many water bottles. The AT Thru-Hikers Companion lists reliable often occurring enough water sources. it's not the desert.
NEVER did TP on even one hike. Sticks, stones, leaves or privies sometimes have TP.
WHY running shorts, skateboarding shorts, UA boxer briefs, pants, AND thermal bottoms - REDUNDANT. Tighten that up! Lose a piece. Freeball if necessary. Don't forget you can hike with thermal bottoms under a pr of UL nylon running shorts. I also guess you are going to let your bottom half get wet when it rains? You have, what I guess, are two tees and one long sleeve top? OK Don't forget the Marmot Essence is for warmth and wind protection too. It's not just for the rain!
I use the USPS Priority mail to bounce stuff ahead. I do that with battery charges for my 4 oz digital camera, cell ph., extra memory cards, batteries, etc.
If you want to Kindle fine but you may find you don't read on a thru-hike as often as you might think you will. It's one of the reasons why you'll notice books in shelters. People leave them behind. If you do want to read tear out 40 pages or so at a time from a paperback and bounce the rest of the book ahead(BE careful you don't lose those last few pgs though:D)
Again, don't fret the wt AF. You have a nice light wt kit especially for someone just starting their AT thru. Don't try to be an UL perfectionist from the get go. You'll learn a few new things about gear, the AT thru-hiking lifestyle, and your own hiking style as you get more and more into the hike. Keep things in perspective. REMEMBER, why you are doing this, embarking an an AT thru-hike. It's TO HIKE not have the absolutely lightest wt kit! The two are not inclusive! You can have one without the other. You'll be fine with what you have.
Andrew Ferk
06-02-2013, 23:19
Thanks Dogwood. I'm not sure if I'll go that UL to start, as I've never hiked like this before and I want to feel at least some sort of comfort. But maybe when I get going I'll find that I don't need so much and your advice will come in handy. I'm bookmarking your post for sure! I'll definitely look into cutting down the deet and sunblock. I really want to try the GossamerGear LT4 trekking poles, but they've been OOS for a while now. I'll probably purchase a pair when I'm on the trail.
I think you are wise to recognize that you, your gear, and as a hiker evolve. I notice TOO OFTEN ULers wanting to immediately get to the front of the UL line. Most of those posting super UL kits came to that place where they can do that after some hard earned experience, after knowing what UL gear is available, understanding themselves well, taking MANY other factors into account, etc. Give yourself the time to grow. I think that's the path you are wisely choosing.
Have a GREAT hike AF. Again, my apologies for the first comment.
I can do--and have done--some SUPER ultralight hiking. I am one of those silly folks who can do much of that wilderness survivalist stuff that you see on those silly TV shows. My lightest "hike" was a week long northwoods training event---where I had just the clothes that I was wearing and a small knife. (No jacket or rain gear. No tarp, canteen or backpack etc.) I lived off of of the land and covered 60-75 miles. It wasn't a super comfortable week and it wasn't the safest hiking or camping that I have ever done. However is was SUPER ultralight. I will call this end of the spectrum the extreme of: UNCOMFORTABLY LIGHT.
I also did what a lot of people did in the 1970's--I often hiked with a 45-65 pack. (I think that I even hit 70 lbs once). I had with me just about every comfort, luxury and safety item that someone could ever want while in camp and while on the trail--but it was super heavy to carry. I will call this end of the spectrum the extreme of: UNCOMFORTABLY HEAVY.
Somewhere in the middle is: COMFORTABLY LIGHT (and safe). That particular point will vary from person to person--and it will even vary from trip to trip and even change from section to section on some trips. The trick is to find the gear and the weight that works best FOR YOU and which will have you feeling happy, comfortable and safe.
Try to not get caught up in all of the ultralight "gram weenie stuff"--especially early on in your hiking career. As Dogwood pointed out (or was that "pontificated" :)) many UL hikers got down to that ultralight pack weight over a period of years or decades--after learning what worked for them and after developing more outdoor experience. It is ultimately EXPERIENCE (and $$$$$) that make it possible to safely and (semi-comfortably) have an ultralight pack weight. In MY opinion, too light AND too heavy can BOTH be uncomfortable and unsafe--especially for many newer hikers. Find what works best FOR YOU! (and throw away your scale :))
Carry enough stuff to keep you reasonably comfortable and reasonably safe (including some possible "luxury items" that YOU really want to carry--in order to make you happy)--but also keep the weight at a point where you are both physically and mentally comfortable carrying it (without slowing you down too much and without tearing up your body over the long haul). Pack weight is just an arbitrary number and it means very little. Yes, ultralight is nice. HOWEVER, if you don't have the items that YOU want to have with you--in order to keep YOU reasonably happy, keep YOU reasonably comfortable and keep YOU relatively safe--what good is a lower pack weight?
Like I said at the beginning of my post--I can do (and have done) some super ultralight survivalists hiking trips. Thus, I KNOW that I can do EXTREME ultralight hiking. However, I CHOOSE to have about a 12-15 lb base weight on many hikes-because that amount of gear is what is most often in the COMFORTABLY LIGHT range FOR ME on most hikes. What is comfortably light for you (on any given trip) most likely will differ from what is comfortably light for me. (As lightweight technology continues to improve, and as my knees continue to age, and as I replace worn out gear--I suspect that my idea of what is "Comfortably Light" for me will probably drop by a couple pounds or more).
Happy hiking! HYOH and don't stress out about your pack weight--or regarding how much other people are carrying. It is nice to be comfortable, happy and safe--in addition to having lightweight gear.
The Solemates
06-03-2013, 15:03
things you dont NEED (emphasis on need...I dont carry these things but you may want to):
Ear Plugs
Liner Bag - carry 1 plastic bag for a pack cover
Backpack Cover
Trekking Poles
Trowel
Compass
Watch
Knife
Bear Bag
Coord
Carabiner
Rock Pouch
Floss
Towel - my bandana doubles as this
First Aid Kit
Sunblock
Acne Face Wash
Soap
Cotton
Insect Repellent
Head Net
Shirt (Laundry) - wear your raingear while doing laundry
Shorts (Laundry)
Boxer Briefs - buy pants with built in liners
Battery Charger - put in bounce box
AAA Bateries - put in bounce box