E-vent fabric "Rain Jacket" Vs other options... Your thoughts is it overrated?

[Wise Old Owl]

E-vent fabric "Rain Jacket" Vs other options... Your thoughts is it overrated?

I wear several rain jackets on the job and on the trail. For me the E-vent product is no Gortex or plain ripstop..

This LL Bean jacket is about 2-3 years old keep in mind its only worn in downpours. The sweat separated e-vent from the ripstop as the ripstop isn't DWR I am getting wet across the back and neck. Its $120 of failure.

21888
So a rain jacket with DWR at 8 oz vs E-vent at 12oz in the same size... is over-rated. Be careful when getting "performance" rain gear....






A couple of things I noticed. Poncho's really never caught on, squalls and high winds well blow the thing around... no need for pit zips - its airy... And it works...

So I am asking the WB community what should be my next rain jacket?... not poncho... as light as possible. What excites you?

[WILLIAM HAYES]

I have had an Integral Designs Event rain Jacket for years used in heavy down pours never had an issue like you had could be a design issue with the brand you had versus the event fabric

[Tipi Walter]

Go with an Arcteryx GTX Pro Shell jacket. See the link below.

Anything else won't be around after 5 years of hard use. You save money in the long run too by not having to buy rain gear repeatedly.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/With-Hootyhoo-in-a-Bob-Bald/i-8rTLnQ2/0/M/TRIP%20106%20143-M.jpg
This jacket has saved my butt many times in terrible conditions. And if you read the link below you'll see how Pro Shell stays alive longer after hard use. Sure it's expensive but it's a Once Bought and Once Done.

http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/06/15/field-trip-arcteryx-factory-tour/

[Wise Old Owl]

Well this is good to know guys,,, keep in mind I didn't toss it totally under the bus, but I do have separations and other issues... The quick question is ... IS there something better?

[T.S.Kobzol]

Goretex delamination is guarranteed for life. Get a patagonia or arcteryx gtex rainjacket and you get a goos quality garment for many years thst can be replaced in case of delamination.

Now whether it is overrated is another story. It probably is. I wear them fall, winter and spring in Maine, but summer months I go with a poncho that covers the backpack as well

sent from samsonite using tapioca 2

[Kerosene]

I have had an Integral Designs Event rain Jacket for years used in heavy down pours never had an issue like you had could be a design issue with the brand you had versus the event fabricSame here. Works really well on colder days, but could use pit zips to handle the humid, all day AT downpour. My guess is that the performance of an e-Vent jacket is similar to the latest generation Gore-Tex, but I have not had the opportunity to compare and contrast.

If you really think that a poncho might work for you, then I would really check out The Packa (http://www.thepacka.com), ideally in e-Vent or super-light (but not breathable) Cuben fiber.

[BradMT]

[QUOTE=Tipi Walter;1481790]Go with an Arcteryx GTX Pro Shell jacket. See the link below.

Anything else won't be around after 5 years of hard use.

Please... lets get a bit real here.

There are a plethora of excellent Goretex shells on the market. I like Gore's Paclite as it's, well, lighter.

For the money, the finest Paclite jacket I've used is the OR Foray Jacket... nice, long-lasting tooth zipper, great pit zips, and hipbelt zips.

And yeah, I've got two Arcteryx Paclite jackets too...

[BradMT]

Go with an Arcteryx GTX Pro Shell jacket. See the link below.

Anything else won't be around after 5 years of hard use.

Please... lets get a bit real here.

There are a plethora of excellent Goretex shells on the market. I like Gore's Paclite as it's, well, lighter.

For the money, the finest Paclite jacket I've used is the OR Foray Jacket... nice, long-lasting tooth zipper, great pit zips, and hipbelt zips.

And yeah, I've got two Arcteryx Paclite jackets too...

Would add, the new OR Foray doesn't have a tooth zip...

[Meriadoc]

In summer I use a driducks poncho or a rip stop nylon shell or nothing. The poncho is by far the best if there is not too much wind. If there is wind, the rip stop nylon shell keeps me warm and means that I don't have to deal with a flapping poncho.
Rip stop nylon shell: http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11812598&cp=3677345.3737442.3696723

In winter I control my temperature by layering and delayering and speeding or slowing activity. No shell has ever breathed enough, not even eVent (although eVent came close). Therefore I use a nonbreathable shell for rain and snow protection and watch my layering and activity level. Simple and effective. When my rain jacket wears out (hopefully a long time in the future) I will probably get something made from silnylon to save weight. Antigravity Gear and Lukes Ultralite each have a silnylon rain jacket for sale.


You may already know all the science behind it, but if you haven't, I would read and understand the following article about how different types of rainwear work before buying anything. It is well written.
http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/rainwear-how-it-works.html

The thermodynamics of sweating is a good topic to read about too. Warmlite has a writeup, but it's confusing at times. I'm not sure where else I would point someone to go read about it. Look for a discussion of vapor barriers.

[Meriadoc]

And I want to point out that vapor barriers are for use in very cold situations. It's just one place I know that discusses the thermodynamics of sweating.
Here's another decent writeup:
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/breathability-its-importance-mechanisms-and-limitations/

[Kerosene]

There are a plethora of excellent Goretex shells on the market. I like Gore's Paclite as it's, well, lighter.

For the money, the finest Paclite jacket I've used is the OR Foray Jacket... nice, long-lasting tooth zipper, great pit zips, and hipbelt zips.

And yeah, I've got two Arcteryx Paclite jackets too...Note that the OR Foray weighs in at 15.4 oz (according to Backcountry.com), versus the 9.6 oz of my Integral Designs e-Vent jacket but lacks those great pit zips.

[Wise Old Owl]

TSK I agree when I shop on line on those brands I see a staggering $200-500 on line... in the store not so much. No mention of weight

[Wise Old Owl]

Simple stuff looking for 6oz and pit zips

[Wise Old Owl]

I can see folks are checking out the thread and not posting..

come on your UL's need to post please and 5-6 ounces...favorites anyone?

[T.S.Kobzol]

It is useful to note that goretex is guaranteed for life agInst delamination from the gore company. Therefore it is not necessary to purchase a jacket from a company with a great warranty. Save your receipt and in caee you get pushback from the vendor or if the seller went out of business you can contact gore for warranty replacement.

sent from samsonite using tapioca 2

[Wise Old Owl]

Well this old jacket is LL Bean - I still would like to get into the 6 ounce zone in a Xl with pit zips... any cottage manufactures?

[Cedar Tree]

Well this old jacket is LL Bean - I still would like to get into the 6 ounce zone in a Xl with pit zips... any cottage manufactures?

What do you think is a fair price for a custom cuben fiber < 6 oz. jacket with pit zips (not a packa, but a jacket)?

CT

[Wise Old Owl]

Uh my guess is about $165? XL? don't know and it would have to be green or brown. please not blue...


Hey as someone who is working I completely understand the effort and time invested... I have a way that would interest you .. PM me.

[Razor]

I am also looking for a lightweight jacket. Use an Arc for winter but is overkill for 9 months. My super mica(8 0z) wore out --It was good but after about 1 1/2 years was not as waterproof as I would .Currently use a frog toggs jacket 5 oz very waterproof but not good on breathing .I ran duct tape around the pit area and cut pit zips out (without the zipper). It works and is a good budget jacket but still on the lookout for a more balance between breath ability and waterproof.

[Tinker]

Nothing that I have tried (old two and three layer Gore-tex, Driducks rainsuit - actually Drop-Stoppers Micropore - basically lighter version of same thing, Gore Paclite - basically Gore-tex coated with polyurethane, and even eVent - basically Gore-tex withOUT internal polyurethane coating breathe well enough for active hiking unless you unzip them and inv ite the rain in in an effort to let the steam out). Coated nylon with a hood and big pit zips is what I would buy today knowing what I know now. A stiff fabric helps with air movement inside the garment as well.)

[Wise Old Owl]

I agree Tinker - my 8 oz Granite Gear is still a go to piece of kit. it's still going... just trying to look around and get a handle on the new stuff - I don't get that Patagonia lacks pit zips and appears to be the same prices as Cuben Fiber.

[FamilyGuy]

Gortex is a really poor performer in comparison to eVent. I have used a number of different fabrics and still use Gortex for the winter precisely because it doesn't breath very well and keeps me warmer than eVent. However eVent is so much more breathable and yet just as waterproof that it is hard to compare. As far as durability, Tipi is once again speaking out of left field. Durability has much to do with jacket construction, rather than fabric choices in this case. 3 ply eVent is just as durable from an abrasion perspective as 3 ply Gortex. TiPi's Arcteryx Theta jacket is over $550 new. It had better be durable.

if you can find eVent with pit zips, you may never need another jacket.

[Wise Old Owl]

We are on the same page Family Guy - but I thought I had found a eVent with pit zips at LLBean... here we are 2-3years later and the jacket is done... hence the thread...

FYI TIPI if you see this the cheapest I can get a Artyrex is $385 so its out of bounds nice jacket though.

[Slo-go'en]

I've been using a Cabela's "Dry Plus" rain jacket the last few years. It works as well as any other non-gortex, "breathable" fabric I've tried. Which is to say, it will keep you dry for a little while in a light rain if your not moving around much. At $99 it wasn't too expensive and at 9 oz, not to heavy, plus it packs small.

The best you can expect from any rain jacket is that it will keep you from becoming soaked to the bone and will keep you warm.

[FamilyGuy]

We are on the same page Family Guy - but I thought I had found a eVent with pit zips at LLBean... here we are 2-3years later and the jacket is done... hence the thread...

FYI TIPI if you see this the cheapest I can get a Artyrex is $385 so its out of bounds nice jacket though.

Comparable in price and quality to the Arcteryx brand is Westcomb, which uses eVent exclusively. But they are expensive. Rab uses eVent as well. Mountain Hardwear has some eVent jackets under the Dry Q name. I recently purchased a Stoic eVent jacket for $70 but it may be too heavy for you. So far the quality has been really good.

[Wise Old Owl]

I think I will wait till Ceder Tree gets back to me...

[Cedar Tree]

WOO, I've tried calling you a couple times this evening. I am thinking $165 is not enough, for me anyway.

Where can you buy a cuben fiber jacket? I know Zpacks offers a breathable cuben jacket for $225 + $15 for pit zips. Is that for both pit zips or per pit zip?

I thought Luke's Ultralight carried them but didn't see them on his website.

CT

[BradMT]

Gortex is a really poor performer in comparison to eVent. I have used a number of different fabrics and still use Gortex for the winter precisely because it doesn't breath very well and keeps me warmer than eVent. However eVent is so much more breathable and yet just as waterproof that it is hard to compare.

if you can find eVent with pit zips, you may never need another jacket.

I've heard this repeated so many times regarding E-vent I want to give it a try...

[Kerosene]

Gortex is a really poor performer in comparison to eVent. I have used a number of different fabrics and still use Gortex for the winter precisely because it doesn't breath very well and keeps me warmer than eVent. However eVent is so much more breathable and yet just as waterproof that it is hard to compare. As far as durability, Tipi is once again speaking out of left field. Durability has much to do with jacket construction, rather than fabric choices in this case. 3 ply eVent is just as durable from an abrasion perspective as 3 ply Gortex. TiPi's Arcteryx Theta jacket is over $550 new. It had better be durable.

if you can find eVent with pit zips, you may never need another jacket.I've worn the Integral Designs e-Vent jacket for a number of years and believe that it is much more breathable than the original versions of Gore-tex, although I'd still like pit zips. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of the relatively new Gore-tex Active variant which they are using for high aerobic clothing applications. The new Gore-tex Pro variant is more ruggedized yet not as breathable (yet still 28% more so than the prior verison of Gore-tex Pro).

[HeartFire]

http://blistergearreview.com/articles/outerwear-101
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/outerwear-201-marketing-wars-new-technologies-paradigm-shifts

2 very good articles on just what is 'waterproof breathable', how they work, the difference between Gortex brand, Event brand etc. Personally, my take on 'waterproof / breathable' is that it's an oxymoron. The breathable barrier will transmit water "vapor" when hiking, you are putting off water drops, not vapor. Standing around, going to the corner store - it's vapor. Hiking it's sweat.
Anyway, I ( LightHeart Gear ) am working on a rain jacket design, one that is waterproof - not breathable, it will not wet through, to go with my rain wrap. It has a full brim that can get crushed when the jacket is scrunched up to pack away, but will not crease. It should be ready for production within a few months.

[Wise Old Owl]

Heartfire - wow super thank you! I am half way through you links... very cool !!!!!!!

[FamilyGuy]

http://blistergearreview.com/articles/outerwear-101
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/outerwear-201-marketing-wars-new-technologies-paradigm-shifts

2 very good articles on just what is 'waterproof breathable', how they work, the difference between Gortex brand, Event brand etc. Personally, my take on 'waterproof / breathable' is that it's an oxymoron. The breathable barrier will transmit water "vapor" when hiking, you are putting off water drops, not vapor. Standing around, going to the corner store - it's vapor. Hiking it's sweat.
Anyway, I ( LightHeart Gear ) am working on a rain jacket design, one that is waterproof - not breathable, it will not wet through, to go with my rain wrap. It has a full brim that can get crushed when the jacket is scrunched up to pack away, but will not crease. It should be ready for production within a few months.

What's your experience with eVent?

[HeartFire]

Family Guy - I have never bought anything with eVent! I always thought it was too expensive, the only rain jacket like this stuff I ever bought was a marmot Precip. It began to delaminate quickly, and it started wetting through once it got dirty, but, it was warm in a cold rain. I think while hiking the biggest issue is to stay warm in the rain, - you are going to get wet - either from the rain or sweat, so something that is plastic like (all of these jackets) that act more as a wind block and keep your body warmth locked in works.

[BIG TIGER]

Hey HeartFire Will your new jacket have pit zips. Thanks Ron

[HeartFire]

Yes, it will have pit zips, it also has deep inseam side pockets (no zippers on this) and, it has deep 'map' pockets on the inside. So if you have something you need to keep dry- it can go inside.

[BIG TIGER]

Sounds good! Can't wait to see it. Ron

[susiecruise]

Goretex delamination is guarranteed for life. Get a patagonia or arcteryx gtex rainjacket and you get a goos quality garment for many years thst can be replaced in case of delamination.

Now whether it is overrated is another story. It probably is. I wear them fall, winter and spring in Maine, but summer months I go with a poncho that covers the backpack as well

sent from samsonite using tapioca 2

Ya Know? I really think a poncho is the way to go for the summer. I am really interseted in exploring the new fabrics. It keeps evolving and it's great because we all want to keep prettty dry, and we all want to feel comfortable.

[Deacon]

I personally think eVent is an extremely comfortable fabric to wear in rain. That said, it's a little too heavy. My eVent Packa is 17 oz. But its so comfortable in a cold rain, it feels like I'm inside next to a fire.
However, I can't live with 17 oz. so I've settled for Zpacks cuben rain jacket w/pit zips at 5.7 oz. I can walk for hours in a driving rain and it has not leaked.

[Dogwood]

EVent is the MOST breathable YET TRULY WP fabric/technology available for rain wear. Lab tests bear this out repeatedly.

After saying that a few pts that are critical. EVent, Gore Tex, Silny, other WP membranes are offered in different versions having slightly different characteristics. For example, EVent comes in 2, 2.5, and 3 ply versions, that I know of. It's also no secret Gore Tex comes in different versions some being more breathable than others. I'll also pt out that what fabric a rain jacket is made from IS ONLY ONE FACTOR in determining how breathable or how comfortable it will be in individual use.

Construction and design factor into gear characteristics too. For example, with a one piece Gore Tex membrane in one of my WP trail runners my feet will not get wet by water leaking in from outside through the GoreTex while with a different brand and model trail runner that has sewn seams in a multiple piece GoreTex membrane(same version of Goretex as the one piece Gore Tex membrane) water eventually leaks in though the seams. Same can be true for rain jackets.

If there ever were some misleading conclusions about hiking gear IMHO I think it concerns what's considered breathable. No matter how breathable or not a rain jacket is IT IS ONLY AS BREATHABLE and COMFORTABLE to the user in relation to the extent of the user's knowledge in employing one! I see it regularly on trails - hikers blaming how uncomfortable they are SOLELY on it being the GEAR'S FAULT as if they have NO control over how their gear performs or how they feel. IMHO, more emphasis needs to placed on the user's ability to manage core body temp by making adjustments. It's a fallacy to expect gear such as rain jacket to realistically maximally perform when we take our behavior out of the equation.

WOO, I know of no TRULY WP 6 oz rain jacket w/ pit zips. Personally, I think they are over rated anyhow.

[Dogwood]

Meant to say: WOO, I know of no TRULY WP 6 oz rain jacket w/ pit zips made of a fabric that is breathable. Cuben is impermeable. It's not going to breathe. With a cuben rain jacket you're going to have to vent through features or with careful use.

[Tipi Walter]

If eVent is so good, why did Feathered Friends dump it from their product line? It used to be in all their bags and parkas. Beyond this, I think I'll stick with my beloved and butt-saving Arcteryx Alpha---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/10-Days-In-The-Cold/i-Mrk4z2W/0/L/TRIP%20117%20089-L.jpg
It has saved my butt more than once and doesn't have a single pinhole. Anyway, I'm not the only one who thinks so---read the reviews---
http://www.backpacker.com/gear-guide-april-toughest-gear-arcteryx-alpha-sv-jacket/gear/14069

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hardshell-Jacket-Reviews/Arcteryx-Alpha-SV

http://www.summitpost.org/outdoor-gear/arcteryx-alpha-sv-pro-shell-2009/4841

Of course, NO PIECE OF GEAR IS PERFECT. No matter the price. Everything will break, rot, rip, leak, tear and snap. It's just that this orange baby will do it later than sooner. The ProShell is way beyond my old Marmot PacLite. What does a person get with the money? Longevity.

[Dogwood]

Valid question Tipi. I think it was because there isn't a lot of call for Event top cover sleeping bags and didn't fit in nicely with FF's product lines. EVent is also proprietary as is Gore Tex so gear companies seek to come up with their own WP membrane technology to avoid the continuing costs of these membranes. And, don't get me wrong. I have an EVent top bivy and a couple prs of trail runners with EVent but no EVent rain jacket. I get along fine with other membranes including the ArcTeryx Alpha which I like for certain uses.

[Dogwood]

ArcTeryx is the most high priced clothing I own. At $450+ for the AT Alpha this is a pricery jacket but WOW if you want performance and durability for cold weather, above treeline, and for reliability abroad AT is hard to beat.

[FamilyGuy]

If eVent is so good, why did Feathered Friends dump it from their product line? It used to be in all their bags and parkas. Beyond this, I think I'll stick with my beloved and butt-saving Arcteryx Alpha---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/10-Days-In-The-Cold/i-Mrk4z2W/0/L/TRIP%20117%20089-L.jpg
It has saved my butt more than once and doesn't have a single pinhole. Anyway, I'm not the only one who thinks so---read the reviews---
http://www.backpacker.com/gear-guide-april-toughest-gear-arcteryx-alpha-sv-jacket/gear/14069

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hardshell-Jacket-Reviews/Arcteryx-Alpha-SV

http://www.summitpost.org/outdoor-gear/arcteryx-alpha-sv-pro-shell-2009/4841

Of course, NO PIECE OF GEAR IS PERFECT. No matter the price. Everything will break, rot, rip, leak, tear and snap. It's just that this orange baby will do it later than sooner. The ProShell is way beyond my old Marmot PacLite. What does a person get with the money? Longevity.

your logic is flawed. Why don't they use Gortex? Because it doesn't breathe worth a darn.

[Del Q]

"The difference between men & boys is the price of their toys"

[Dogwood]

That's truly a great pic. Were you practicing for you Great Himalyan Tr trek?

[Tipi Walter]

That's truly a great pic. Were you practicing for you Great Himalyan Tr trek?

Thanks for the words. There's a tendency in the mountains of NC and TN to get what I call "snowdowns" whereby the higher elevation trails become blocked by rhodo and evergreens leaning over and down onto the trail with a heavy layer of snow. Then the "green tunnel" becomes the Hellslog of the Moment. That pic was taken right after crawling on my belly under a mile of snowdowns, and the worst was yet to come as I had another mile to go.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/In-The-Citico-With-Hootyhoo/i-CdgnnwZ/0/M/trip%2090%20045-M.jpg
This pic sorta shows what I mean if you can imagine the branches of snow on the right coming down to the ground being your trail---and the whole trail is blocked by such stuff. It's difficult to belly crawl underneath when wearing a 60lb pack. But it's the kind of conditions the old Alpha SV jacket was designed for.