Shuttling the AT

[speedbump]

This may sound crazy, but, has anyone ever shuttled their thru ? Just thinking that the car can be packed with supplies, no need to hitchhike, can drive to campgrounds or even sleep in the car when needed, or should the unthinkable happen, you can leave the trail.

Just a thought. If anyone has done this, let me know.

[max patch]

PJ Wetzel did it last year. Did what he calls a "double thru hike" by dayhiking the AT and sleeping every nite in his car. (The spending every nite in his car and not camping at all on his hike was a big deal to him.) Basically, park at traihead A and hike to trailhead B and then turn around and hike back to trailhead A. Then drive to trailhead B and hike to trailhead C and then turn around and hike back to trailhead B.And so on. I believe he jumped around a bit during the year.

Trailjournal:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=362525

[max patch]

Just want to point out that my explanation above is a simplified version of how the hike and car progressed up the trail.

[Cookerhiker]

It helps a lot if you have a support person to drive and meet you at Point B while you're hiking from Point A to Point B. Perhaps a (very) understanding spouse.;)

[Disco]

My strategy is to park at trailhead A, hike HALFWAY to trailhead B, then back to parked car at A. Drive car to trailhead B, and hike back the remaining half towards A, and back to car at B. This way, you are never the entire distance AB away from your vehicle, only half that distance. For example, if AB is 8 miles, hike 4 miles from A toward B (and 4 miles back to car), then drive to B and hike 4 miles toward A (and 4 miles back to car). Yes, it takes 16 miles of hiking to check 8 miles off your list, but the advantage is that you are always relatively close to your car in case of trouble. For those with a sense of humor, here's another example: Suppose you hiked out 8 miles, and back 8 miles. At the 8 mile mark, you twist an ankle, and now you must limp back 8 miles to car. With my strategy, you hike out 4, back 4, twist ankle, and are in the car!

[Disco]

PS, I followed PJWetzel's (SeeksIt) journal as he 'double-thru'ed' last year and highly recommend it!! Try www.pjwetzel.com and there should be a link to his journal. For any section hiker, he has very valuable info available.

[speedbump]

Thanks everyone! I will check out that journal. It sounds doable, and I think this may have its benefits too.

[Cookerhiker]

You will find some sections e.g. the Smokies, White Mountains, parts of Maine where it's more difficult to avoid backpacking. But most of the AT can be done this way.

[Lone Wolf]

i slacked a guy from mass. to maine once with his conversion van. had a ball!

[Lemni Skate]

I read about a twosome that did it this way (sounded good to me): Hiker A starts from southern trailhead heads North. Hiker B drives to northern trail head and then hikes south. They have lunch together on the trail and then finish their days. Hiker A finishes and gets car and drives back to get hiker B. They sleep in vehicle wherever convenient (or in town or whatever). Do it all again the next day. Sounded like a good way to do it.

[MuddyWaters]

This may sound crazy, but, has anyone ever shuttled their thru ? Just thinking that the car can be packed with supplies, no need to hitchhike, can drive to campgrounds or even sleep in the car when needed, or should the unthinkable happen, you can leave the trail.

Just a thought. If anyone has done this, let me know.

Well, what you suggest sounds very similar to what Warren Doyles AT hiking groups do when they thru hike. Basically, they are slackpacked much of the way.

I think Warren has hiked the AT 16 time, and several of them were that way with his groups I believe.

[DavidNH]

Shuttling your thru hike.. You want Warren Doyle's Circle hike. That's exactly what he does. A series of van supported day trips covering the whole AT in 4 months. Me.. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!

[tawa]

Are u sure he hiked it 16 times ---heard it was more like 11. But I might be wrong too.

[Malto]

I believe someone did this on the PCT with two cars. He started at point B with a car at A and B. he hiked to A then drove to C. Hiked to B then drove to D and so on. This allowed him to southbound his hike while moving north and only hiking it once. In theory you would meet the same group of folks over and over if your average was the same. Seems a lot easier than a single car. You end up driving the distance twice and hiking once vs the opposite

[MuddyWaters]

Are u sure he hiked it 16 times ---heard it was more like 11. But I might be wrong too.

I think he differentiates between thru hikes, and complete hikes of it. The thru hikes is the lower number. Not sure what it really is either anymore. It was 9 at one time. But he claims to have walked the entire trail 16 times.

[Bronk]

In 2002 there was a couple that towed a car behind a van and slackpacked the trail. I don't know if they made it all the way or not, but they were still on the trail when I got off in Waynesboro.

[Jeff]

Hikers I have talked to regarding these strategies always emphisize how many more driving miles are involved. From Trailhead A to Trailhead B might be only 15 hiking miles on the AT, but sometimes 50 or 60 road miles to get the car from A to B.

[peakbagger]

There was a good trail journal from Big Red about 10 years ago about someone who switched over to shuttling. He hooked up with another couple which made it a lot easier.

Near the end of my section hiking, my partner has some ankle issues that showed up if we backpacked but was fine when we slackpacked. We did a couple of sections with two cars but in the end we used one car and did key swaps half way. This worked well for hiking but the navigation to and from trail heads was a challenge. In much of the south there are plenty of road crossings but many are very rural roads and forest service roads. Car nav software is generally poor for these roads and frequently inaccurate showing roads that are long since closed. We used a Delorme Atlas for GA, NC and Tn. The trick is in the AM after I dropped off my friend at a trailhead, I had to then find my way to the other trailhead and take good notes. I would leave them in the car and when we met halfway on the trail I would fill him in the best I could but he still had to navigate his way back. Some of the FS roads tend to start out as local roads or what looks like a driveway to a farm, only after driving literally right up past the house and through the barnyard on both sides of the road did the road make it FS property and look like a road. I would use the Delorme books to set coordinates at these turns off the main roads so we didn't inadvertently go up the wrong driveway.

Some of these shuttles were quite long if the access was only one side of the ridge. We did the smokies in two section starting at the gap in the middle. To spot a car on the north end of the park at the interstate, we then had to drive back to Gatlinburg and back into the park to the gap and start hiking, that was 60 plus miles. Then when after we had hiked back to the car on the north end we had to spot a car at Fontana and then drive back to the gap. It was easily 4 hours of steady driving. Good thing I had a civic that got 40 MPG and had AC. I kept a cooler and big box of hiking staples in the trunk so we could make meals going into town.

A very large number of the AT shelters are readily accessible from side roads usually accessed via by a blocked off old road. The access isn't marked but with an AT map or the atlas we would get coordinates and walk in usually only a couple of hundred yards. We would usually pick one of these shelters to use for a base camp for a few nights. We hiked off season so usually had the shelters to ourselves. On occasion if the shelter has a lot of trash we would carry it out to be disposed in town and in general would try to leave it better than it was. A frequently project was to burn out the campfire pit of the big chunks and then haul out all the aluminum foil. On occasion we used hostels or stayed in motels.

One big plus is by doing it this way you get a lot more exposure to the areas on either side of the AT. We ran into a lot of nice areas that thruhikers would never know existed while getting to the trails. The area south of the Smokies had a lot of this, some of the roads are world class (like the tail of the dragon) and go through some very nice territory.

It worked well down south but I do not know if would work well in the NJ, NY, CT and Mass stretch as its more developed.

[Cookerhiker]

...It worked well down south but I do not know if would work well in the NJ, NY, CT and Mass stretch as its more developed.

While the greater development might make for slower driving speed, my guess is that the frequency of road crossings and their proximity to the Trail would make it easier.

[Lone Wolf]

While the greater development might make for slower driving speed, my guess is that the frequency of road crossings and their proximity to the Trail would make it easier.

this is correct. i was involved in several speed hikes over the years and meeting the hiker multiple times a day was no problem. except the smokys and between gorham and grafton notch. slackpacking the AT with a support vehicle is very easy to do

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

I've pondered a long section done via a 2 vehicle shuttle for some time now, inspired in part by PJ Wetzel's 2012 effort. In recent months, I've done some field work checking out road crossings and noting time and distance from certain campgrounds. I've still got some work to do, but what is becoming apparent is, as noted above, there are some areas where there would be hours of driving per day in order to drop one vehicle at a take-out and the two hikers ride together back to the put-in, do the day's hike, go fetch the put-in vehicle, and get back to camp. An increase in hiking speed would offset some of the driving time, as would the ability to spend less time preparing meals since you could do a big cook-off every second or third day plus have access to refrigeration to keep leftovers for a quick warm-up. Surely the "meet in the middle" between put-in and take-out strategy works well and would likely be wise for some of the longer drive-time areas. I strongly suspect a two-vehicle shuttle system, with two or more hikers hiking together between the two, would consume somewhat more time than might be saved on the trail itself.

Something like this is surely not for everybody, but a full-on backpacking experience, overnighting in the shelters or tenting, isn't for everybody, either. I regard a vehicle-supported hike as one method of HYOH which provides access to an AT experience to some who might not otherwise attempt a long section or a through. I would agree that a full time support person doing the drop off at the put-in and a pick-up at the take-out would be ideal, particularly if that person would be doing all of the other logistics like food shopping, prep, laundry, and moving the camper from time to time.

AO

[Malto]

I've pondered a long section done via a 2 vehicle shuttle for some time now, inspired in part by PJ Wetzel's 2012 effort. In recent months, I've done some field work checking out road crossings and noting time and distance from certain campgrounds. I've still got some work to do, but what is becoming apparent is, as noted above, there are some areas where there would be hours of driving per day in order to drop one vehicle at a take-out and the two hikers ride together back to the put-in, do the day's hike, go fetch the put-in vehicle, and get back to camp.
AO

Read my post below. This cuts your shuttle distance by a factor of three and also allows it to be done with a single hiker. One other note. The higher your mileage ability is the greater your flexibility. Also, since you would be slack packing you ability to hit seemingly inaccessible road crossings increases.


I believe someone did this on the PCT with two cars. He started at point B with a car at A and B. he hiked to A then drove to C. Hiked to B then drove to D and so on. This allowed him to southbound his hike while moving north and only hiking it once. In theory you would meet the same group of folks over and over if your average was the same. Seems a lot easier than a single car. You end up driving the distance twice and hiking once vs the opposite

[peakbagger]

My reference to it being more difficult up north was mostly the options for low cost not the actual hiking. Down south it was easy to find a dirt road and forest service land to set up a tent if a shelter wasn't nearby while this would be less easy in New England (especially CT) as the camping options are very limited and there aren't a lot of motels nearby. Most of the shelters in New England tend to be up on the ridgelines (with some exceptions) to keep the weekend partiers in check.

Must admit Malto's concept is intriguing. I think I would buy the smallest motorcycle that's road legal and pickup or a van and hopscotch with two of them. Use the car for the long runs and the bike for the shorter runs. Then again it sure looked like there was a lot more driving between road crossings on the PCT.

[fredmugs]

I believe someone did this on the PCT with two cars. He started at point B with a car at A and B. he hiked to A then drove to C. Hiked to B then drove to D and so on. This allowed him to southbound his hike while moving north and only hiking it once. In theory you would meet the same group of folks over and over if your average was the same. Seems a lot easier than a single car. You end up driving the distance twice and hiking once vs the opposite

I have six years before I can retire and I'm always thinking about what's possible and this is very intriguing.

[Malto]

Another advantage to the SoBo northbound hike detailed above is that the shuttle moves are two day distance not a single days distance. This can be a big advantage in some areas where the main traveling artery is miles from the trail head or where the trail makes a major jog. To illustrate we can look in my backyard, boiling springs to Swatara Gap a trail distance of 61 miles. Doing the option listed by AO you would be driving a total of 456 miles with Duncannon being the stopping point on day 1 and Swatara Gap hit on Day two. For the SoBo option the total drive is 100 miles to shuttle both vehicles the 50 miles. ( in reality you are only shuttling 1 between those locations, the second goes between Duncannon and somewhere like Port Clinton.). This is the efficiency that is gain by doing double shuttles vs the single shuttles. That is a huge difference, 456 vs 100 which is far greater than even the 3:1 that I referred if there was no efficiency gain. Granted I cherry picked the locations knowing the trail has a big bend but the total efficiency will never be less than 3:1.

[joshuasdad]

I have "freedom packed" most of the AT, and use Malto's strategy on occasion. More often, however, I get a shuttle behind my car so as to sleep off trail, and still get two freedom packing days in. For example, started at VA 42 in afternoon, hiked SOBO to Atkins for pickup, next day I was shuttled 18 miles behind my car, then hiked SOBO to car. Added benefit: confuse NOBO thrus who see you twice in 24 hours...

Strategy can also be used for fast and light (single overnight) type hiking, e.g., hike SOBO two days from car, eventually get shuttled behind car. This is good for locations where transit is available for the long shuttle, e.g., NJ through NH, and also good for Weekend Warriors.

[Cookerhiker]

My hiking partner and I did the 2-car shuttle for the 57 northernmost miles of the Long Trail, from Smuggler's Notch to Canada (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=203585). Lot of driving but otherwise, things worked out well. We also did it last Fall for an 85 mile hike on the Allegheny Trail (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=395198) in WV.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Malto http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1484248#post1484248)
I believe someone did this on the PCT with two cars. He started at point B with a car at A and B. he hiked to A then drove to C. Hiked to B then drove to D and so on. This allowed him to southbound his hike while moving north and only hiking it once. In theory you would meet the same group of folks over and over if your average was the same. Seems a lot easier than a single car. You end up driving the distance twice and hiking once vs the opposite


If I follow Malto's program correctly, it would be necessary for a vehicle to be left at or near a crossing nightly. Not leaving a vehicle out overnight is one of my self-imposed planning parameters as I study this potential. I have also started looking into shuttle costs, where there are surely cases where a shuttle from the take-out back to camp, where the second vehicle is, can be cost comparitive with a two-vehicle out-and-back to drop the second vehicle at the take-out.

My potential hiking partner and I are looking to maximize the purely nobo direction and the hiking together aspects of the overall plan. We are, however, realistic and understand we may need to do some nobo-sobo "meet in the middle" segments, employ shuttlers, and just remain flexible.

One of my other working hypotheses is the base camp is ideally set up for 2-5 day periods and that daily hiking segments should be selected more on time/distance from a day's put-in and take-out from and to camp than on the particular nature of the trail segment itself. Simplified, it seems better to have either a short or a long day which would end at a more quickly and easily accessed trailhead than to do "x" miles/day and end up at whatever the closest trailhead may be. The April and May 2013 field work went from Davenport Gap to Pearisburg, focused on the more remote segments from Davenport Gap to Erwin and from Atkins to Pearisburg, and I logged a number of access points which were close to an hour from a highway-speed route. Furthermore, some of the "moving the camp days" could be short hiking days, with bugging out of Camp A occurring in the morning, dropping off the take-out vehicle enroute to the next camp (or at least "while we're on the road"), dropping the camper at the Camp B campground, and returning to the put-in in the second vehicle for a short day's hike.

Again, this is certainly not for everybody. I have enormous respect for those who can and do through-hike the AT in more traditional ways. I just don't see any time in the next 10-12 years that I can likely take 6 full months to do it. Walking the entire AT in a single season appeals much, much more to me, individually, than section hiking it over a multi-year period does. My working plan as it now exists allows three 7-day absences, with a day each way driving a vehicle home and back to the trail, to tend to business and visit my family, including a grandson who I want to remain as close to as possible as he passes through his toddler years. I have a professional practice to remain in close contact with at least every few days, and that's not going to change for at least a decade.

AO

[perrymk]

Last hiking season (winter here in Florida) I started section day hiking the Florida Trail on weekends. I park my car at one trailhead/roadcrossing, use my electric bicycle to shuttle to another, then hike back to my car. The e-bike makes the hike much more enjoyable for me, but each to their own. I knocked out 110 miles this way. I plan to continue this when the weather cools again in the fall.

[max patch]

Thanks everyone! I will check out that journal. It sounds doable, and I think this may have its benefits too.

More disadvantages than advantages. If you want to hike on a schedule, spend your nites in gaps beside a road, and miss out on the total thru hiker experience then you'll probably enjoy it. Or just wait until 2015 and tag along with Mr Doyle. Pretty much the same thing and you don't have to drive.

[perrymk]

I think I would buy the smallest motorcycle that's road legal and pickup or a van and hopscotch with two of them.

I looked into the hopscotch concept for myself some time ago. I believe a 250cc motorcycle is generally as small as one can go and still be street legal on most interstate highways. The small Honda Rebel is a popular model.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

More disadvantages than advantages. If you want to hike on a schedule, spend your nites in gaps beside a road, and miss out on the total thru hiker experience then you'll probably enjoy it. Or just wait until 2015 and tag along with Mr Doyle. Pretty much the same thing and you don't have to drive.


For sure, hop-scotchers would miss out on the total thru-hiker experience, and that's exactly the point. Hop-scotching isn"t for everybody, and neither is 6 months in a shelters, a tent, or a hostel. All part of HYOH.

I haven't caught back up with his updates, yet, but PJ is said to be posting some updates on the logistics of his 2012 effort. While he surely spent some nights in remote road-crossing gaps, I believe most of his nights were spent away from the trail at places allowing overnight parking for his van. All in all, he did it in a way which suited him and there's something to admire about it, even if it's not our first preference of a way to see the trail from Springer to Katahdin.

AO

[MDSection12]

I looked into the hopscotch concept for myself some time ago. I believe a 250cc motorcycle is generally as small as one can go and still be street legal on most interstate highways. The small Honda Rebel is a popular model.

Honda CRF-250L just came out this year... 250cc dual sport that is literally the same bike as the CRF-250 dirt bike, just with added mirrors and signals. It'd be perfect. :)