Becoming a mobile trail angel....

[Lemni Skate]

I came up with this year about ten years ago and I can't seem to let it go. I considered being a mobile trail angel one season. The thought was to "thru-drive" the Appalachian Trail. Here's the idea. Get a mobile home (of some sort) and follow the thru hikers north one year. Maybe start at Amicalola Falls around Feb. 1 and just meander up to Baxter and try and end up there by October. I'd just stop at places where I was likely to see a lot of thru hikers...road crossings, trail towns, etc. and I'd try to be a help to hikers. I'd try to have things they might need, like shoe strings, bandanas, trail money, etc. I'd also try to stay stocked with beverages and food I could share if somebody came by at just about any time. I'm not talking luxury...I'm talking gatorade mix and hotdogs and cheap chips most of the time, though if somebody caught me when I was grillin' a steak or boiling some spegs I'd share. I'd also be available for rides into town. I really imagine not having the actual motor home at the trail heads that often, but parking that at a campground and sitting at trailheads with a pickup truck, a cooler and a grill.

I'd be moving a lot slower than the thru-hikers so I'd probably only encounter a few of them more than once or twice, but that would kind of be the point. I imagine taking pictures of all of them and getting a story or two and writing it down and maybe self-publishing a book about everybody I met out there.

I think it would be an interesting way for my wife and I to spend 8 months, and it seems like I'll be able to afford it (unless I get to generous and serve up lobster to every hiker to offer everyone a brand new sleeping bag), we're looking pretty good financially for retirement.

The other great thing, is I imagine there'd be a lot of good day hikes in this for us, too.

Any thoughts...problems you'd anticipate...helpful suggestions for someone doing this.

[Lone Wolf]

would be awesome if you did something like that with truly needy folks like tornado victims and such. hikers are on vacation. they're partyin' all the way north

[Pedaling Fool]

That sounds totally depressing to me, but then again I can't stand to be in a car for too long. Just an hour in a car nearly kills me.

[Lemni Skate]

I can't imagine I'd be in a car very long. I'm driving 2175 miles over 240 days. 8 miles a day. I drive farther than that to work every day now. I also drive farther than that to church, the grocery store, and much farther to go hiking.

[Lemni Skate]

Exactly what I'm trying to avoid Lone Wolf...I've been trying to save the world enough these past 50 years.

[Pedaling Fool]

Then what will you be doing? Sitting around waiting for hikers to go by, doesn't sound fun to me. If you have that kind of time, then just thru-hike it. Hikers don't need help.

[Flounder940]

A guy named Nomad is doing this right now. He started out as a thru hiker and made it to Erwin. He bought a van from Grimm, who runs Uncle Johnny's, back in early April and has been doing mobile trail angel activities ever since. If you're on Facebook, here he is: https://www.facebook.com/NomadsVanMagic?fref=ts

[Lone Wolf]

this year was a banner year for so-called "angels" here in damascus. lotsa vans supporting walkers on vacation. pretty sad and disgusting. no sense of discovery and adventure on the AT anymore

[curtisvowen]

would be awesome if you did something like that with truly needy folks like tornado victims and such. hikers are on vacation. they're partyin' all the way north
Yep, thanks for leaving all your trash for the bears to eat. Thanks for the trash period that we pick up after you.

[curtisvowen]

this year was a banner year for so-called "angels" here in damascus. lotsa vans supporting walkers on vacation. pretty sad and disgusting. no sense of discovery and adventure on the AT anymore
very few would give to those that need it. don't understand so-called "angles" that would support hikers but not someone that really needs help.

[Malto]

There is so much of this type of "trail Angeling". If you must come up with something original. Sponsor a vet to hike the trail,dog sit thru dogs in the smokies etc. Soon there will be more "trail angels" than trail travelers.

[HikerMom58]

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[Lemni Skate]

Wow, wasn't expecting to get attacked so much. Since the insinuation seems to be that by wanting to spend 8 months around the trail makes me a bad person because I'm not in Haiti, let me ask about all these people who thru-hike instead of spending that time researching cures for cancer or who run Hostel's in Damascus instead of in Equatorial Guinea. What about jerks who go to major league baseball games instead of spending time in the children's hospital? Maybe some people who get out for the weekend for a drive on the Skyline Drive ought to be visiting the nursing home.

I am a pastor, a school teacher, a parent, a coach and a husband who has not done anything for myself (except for an 11 day hike through part of Virginia on the AT) in the summer since I can remember. I just thought it would be cool to spend a summer camping near where the hikers come thru. The AT is what I've been dreaming about for 20 years, I want to thru hike it with my son and I'd love to do the triple crown, but who knows what kind of shape I'll be in then? I think it sounds fun. Those of you who are better people than me give all your money to charity and spend your retirement in disaster areas. I'm not going to stop helping people, but I do plan to enjoy myself.

[OzJacko]

Being a "trail angel" all the way would to me in some ways encourage the "entitled" attitude of some hikers to be fed and nurtured. However I fully understand the sentiment and my son and I have discussed that it would in many ways be a fun experience - sort of feeding on the hiker experience without the pain of hiking.
All that said what might be a better deal would be linking up with a few reasonably funded hikers (Army ant, myself and invisible Man would definitely have been keen this year) and essentially slackpacking them all the way to Maine for a (modest) fee. You could also make a few dollars or do trail magic with shuttles or sodas etc at trail crossings while waiting for your "clients".

[chief]

Careful, once you cross over from trail angel to pack sniffer, it's tough to go back. I hear it takes rehab and a 12 step program to regain your sobriety.

[Gray Blazer]

All the best free car camping spots in the East are in the gaps that the AT passes through. You could be a thrubie groupie. I'm sure you'll be helping someone even if you are just helping the US economy. Even if Curtis and LW gave all their money and time to all the Hillbillies that live around them, as a wise man once said, "There will be poor always."

[Pedaling Fool]

Wow, wasn't expecting to get attacked so much....There's no attacking here, just giving our perspective.


The AT is what I've been dreaming about for 20 years, I want to thru hike it with my son and I'd love to do the triple crown, but who knows what kind of shape I'll be in then?The only way to be "in shape" is to work on it, that is the only way, you can't just wait until you see what happens in x-years from now; you have to make it happen.

And if you don't make it happen now, your body will continue to breakdown, which it's doing now, because of your age. But you can reverse that and ultimately slow it way down. That's why I recommend you spend this time to do a thru-hike. It will be difficult, but the longer you wait the worse it'll be.

I'm very near your age, I can tell you I'll still be hiking in my 80's, but only because I keep doing things now, not my rules. Mother Nature is a bitch that way.

[MDSection12]

I don't really have any problem with it, but I don't get it either... If I'm on the trail and I can be of help to a hiker (any hiker, not just a thru) then I'm happy to do it. Same goes for mountain biking; we are a community and it's important that we look out for each other, considering some of the remote areas we tend to find ourselves in... But I don't understand the people who actually go out with the express purpose of 'helping.'

Why don't you plan a vacation the way you want to and just go with the added intention of helping hikers as you see fit? You talk about wanting to help, then talk about having helped enough in your life and doing this for yourself. If that's the case then do it all the way; plan it entirely for yourself. Take the budget you had in mind for helping thrus and put it towards yourself. Use it to get a nicer camper, use it to have a really nice meal once a week on your trips, use it to rent a condo at the beach for a weekend while on the road...

Obviously you should do what you want to do, but I see some contradiction here; are you helping hikers or seeking personal enjoyment... Not to say they are mutually exclusive, but you will have to decide which one will be your focus. :D

[Sampson]

It's a fine idea and it sounds like a fun way to start off your retirement. There's nothing wrong with wanting to explore the AT and its culture, and providing a few good times and some support for folks you meet along the way is not hurting anyone. You don't need validation from WB and its seasoned members. Some are way too salty to see this from your fresh perspective anyways. Go out there an live it up!!

[MDSection12]

From the ATC:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/suggestions-for-providing-trail-magic.pdf

[TD55]

Ignore the naysayers, critics and party poopers. Prolonged road trips with an RV or Pick-up camper are fantastic. My suggestion would be that your primary purpose would be to have a fun adventure and the trail angel stuff be secoundary. Explore the Appalacians and all the wonderful things they have to offer. See the sights and meet great people. You will meet lots of folks doing the same. Don't miss all those church and volunteer fire company dinners! Good food at ridiculous low prices. Your main concern at this point should be what kind of rig do you want. Pulling a tag-along RV can be hard on your vehical. Make sure you have a pick-up with plenty of muscle. Them hills can be steep, curvy and long, up and down. If you decide on a self contained unit, the smaller the better. If you make one of your purposes to map your route, write a journal, etc., that would be great and probably helpful to others.

[fcoulter]

I'm not near the AT, but I provide a little trail magic here in Florida. The FT has road crossings near my job, and is usually pretty dry.

I buy water in those 24 bottle packages at a big box office supply store. When I run out in my office, I buy three packages. One goes to my office. One goes to a road crossing to my south. One goes to a trail crossing to my west. When I drop off new bottles, I pick up any unused olds ones and any trash left behind. (Only once was there trash left behind, and it was easy to pick up.)

This time of year is not hiking season, so there are left overs when I restock. The bottles disappear during the winter, which is high hiking season here.

(I'm interviewing for a new job on Wednesday. Assuming I am offered a job and decide to take it, I've already decided where the new bottle drop would be.)

I know this violates one of the rules on the PDF file, but there are so few hikers on the FT that hanging out and waiting would probably be an exercise in futility. And I haven't seen much, if any, evidence that the local wildlife is trying to eat the water bottles.

[HikerMom58]

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[MDSection12]

I thought that PDF was very well written. It addresses the pure joy that a hiker can feel when receiving a cold drink on a hot day, but it also addresses the eye-sore that a pile of well-intentioned goodies can become in some circumstances. Neither point of view is 'right' but neither one should be ignored either. :)

^I think water is the simplest, most thoughtful, least detracting thing that a 'trail angel' (still don't like the term) can supply. I still kind of cringe at leaving bottles somewhere, but it's not nearly as problematic as candy bar wrappers or other small, food-scented trash. Leaving some water at a trailhead with a note that says 'next spring is an unpleasant walk, fill up here' makes perfect sense to me, cooking two dozen burgers to hand out to passing hikers does not... Different strokes I suppose. :D

[HikerMom58]

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[rickb]

this year was a banner year for so-called "angels" here in damascus. lotsa vans supporting walkers on vacation. pretty sad and disgusting. no sense of discovery and adventure on the AT anymore

Before anyone puts a plan together to interject themselves into another individual's adventure, I think it is incumbent upon them to ask whether their well-intentioned activity has the potential to change the character of the hikers' adventures-- even if only for a hour.

Then, they should ask themselves what the impact would be if 10, 20 or more like minded individuals came to the trail to do exactly the same kind of thing. I can almost see a day when Grandma and Grandpa follow the grand kids up the AT in the same way they folles the Dead in the 70s.

To my way of thinking, the answers to these questions should make one's choice clear.

[TD55]

Perphaps a supply of over the counter medicines and first aid supplies made available to hikers would be more helpful than free grub. Different kind of trail angel activity. Let people donate the cost or at least what they had available at the time at the particular location. Sounds like lots of hikers could have used that assistance this year. Leaving coolers full of drinks and bottles of water sucks. Not doing the trail and bulk of hikers any favors. Actually, as well meaning as it sounds, it's doing a diservice and helping to trash the trail. If hikers can't figure out their water supplies they don't belong on the trail.

[Rasty]

To each his own. My opinion is that excessive trail magic would ruin my hike. Even having to walk past the well intentioned "trail angels" would bother me if it was every road crossing. At some point this is supposed to be backpacking. What's next, a Starsucks at each trail intersection, solar panels on shelters for recharging your iPhone, flushing toilets?

[HikerMom58]

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[RED-DOG]

Would you also be willing to offer free shuttling to and from towns, and how about letting the hikers take showers in your R.V, and how about slack-packing? these types of services is what the Long Distance hiker really needs:cool: Not FOOD.

[MDSection12]

Your way of thinking may change when you're not hiking the trail as opposed to hiking the trail. Jus sayin...:D

In this type of adventure (life) we all need 3 things, everyday.... shelter, food (and H20) and clothes. Thank God for people interjecting themselves into another's individuals adventure/life, when needed. :D You make a good point- sometimes it's not helpful but we are so thankful for the times when it is....

Comparing a thru-hike to life just doesn't work. A thru-hike is really only an option for those that already have the basic necessities covered at home. A thru-hike literally is a luxury, despite what it may seem. :)

Every time this comes up you (HM) say something to the effect of 'I know how happy it can make a hiker, so I know it's right.' I really have a problem with that logic. Just because something has a positive effect on an individual does not mean it is a positive thing for the group as a whole. That's really just a poor rationalization.

And a couple of these for good measure: :) :D :sun :cool: :p :banana

[HikerMom58]

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[max patch]

and how about slack-packing? these types of services is what the Long Distance hiker really needs:cool:

LD hikers don't need slack packing services.

[Lone Wolf]

LD hikers don't need slack packing services.

or feeds......

[MDSection12]

or feeds......

In my ideal world all LD hikers need is a trail...

[Lone Wolf]

In my ideal world all LD hikers need is a trail...

and a town to hitch to every so often

[max patch]

The ATC document on trail magic is a well intentioned effort that apparently no one pays attention to.

DON'T do trail feeds on the trail; do it close to the trail on hard packed surface.

DON'T advertise feeds in advance.

[MDSection12]

and a town to hitch to every so often

Ah, so now they need a ride somewhere? Asking too much, I think... If we let that slide someone might call it 'magical.' ;)

[max patch]

WF used to state that trail feeds were really for the benefit of the giver, not the recipient.

Lot of truth in that statement.

[Lone Wolf]

Ah, so now they need a ride somewhere? Asking too much, I think... If we let that slide someone might call it 'magical.' ;)

hikers don't suffer anymore. weather gets bad? call for a shuttle from a shelter. then they get to town and bitch about the price of the shuttle while drinkin' $5 beers and $18 pizzas

[Rasty]

I agree with you Rasty. I also think that section hikers come from a different place than thru-hikers, maybe. But, after being out on the trail( in sections ) myself, I am beginning to wonder what the difference really is... with all the places for resupply and easy access to getting on and off the trail. It might be safe to say that thru-hiking is just a bunch of section hiking strung together without a super long break. A lot of thru-hikers don't seem to actually be staying on the trail that much.

I agree with OZ and others. I think the better "help" might come in the form of shuttles/rides into towns for resupply etc... No one really seems to want to be "disconnected" for very long. You can tell things are really changing when it comes to hiking the AT.

Thru hiking is not a pilgrimage where the hikers must rely on the generosity of the villagers. There isn't any difference between a thru and a section hiker when it comes to resources and resupply. Isn't the challenge supposed to be part of a hike? Why bother to thru hike if it becomes too easy?

[HikerMom58]

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[keepinitsimple]

Only on WB could a person offer such an idea, with all the good intentions he could have, and then have others come out with daggers. As I read the OP I feel like I knew the negative from others was just a moment away. This is one thing that sucks about posting sites like this. Hey Lemni Skate, go do what is in your heart, sounds like you know right from wrong, and enjoy your retirement.

[Rasty]

For the hikers trying to loose weight, are trail feeds just mean?

[Jack Tarlin]

The negativity on this thread is astounding. If you want to do some trail magic and help folks out while doing some hiking on your own.....well I think that's great. And as to trail magic or kindness "interjecting" on someone's hike, or "ruining it," well here's a thought: While on the Trail, just as when at home, when someone kindly offers you something you're not interested in, you look them in the eye, smile, say "No, thank you!" and you go about your business. This is not that difficult a concept. Those not interested in Trail magic have a simple expedient......decline it and keep walking. If the guy who hits the crossing or parking lot five minutes behind you decides to accept a Pepsi or a burger from a stranger, well how this negatively impacts or damages your own journey completely escapes me.

[TD55]

Only on WB could a person offer such an idea, with all the good intentions he could have, and then have others come out with daggers. As I read the OP I feel like I knew the negative from others was just a moment away. This is one thing that sucks about posting sites like this. Hey Lemni Skate, go do what is in your heart, sounds like you know right from wrong, and enjoy your retirement.

Egaactly, but in fairness, it's pretty much the same old crew that goes into negetive attack mode whenever the oppurtunity arises.

[HikerMom58]

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[joshuasdad]

Fresh Grounds, who I saw near Erwin, is following a group of early season thrus up the trail. Pretty sure that Curtis knew of him. I think he stays at a given location for about two weeks, then heads a couple weeks up trail.

I personally would not like to see too much of this, but the early season thrus seem to be big fans. On that particular day, a long hot dayhike, I was a fan too. If done LNT, seems pretty harmless, except to businesses located just after the "angel" locations.

[MDSection12]

Being able to set their life aside for that time, logistically and financially, is what's amazing to me, not the walking... I suspect that most thru-hikers already were exceptional people in one way or another before setting foot on the trail. The walking is the only part that doesn't impress me, really.

[Rasty]

Only on WB could a person offer such an idea, with all the good intentions he could have, and then have others come out with daggers. As I read the OP I feel like I knew the negative from others was just a moment away. This is one thing that sucks about posting sites like this. Hey Lemni Skate, go do what is in your heart, sounds like you know right from wrong, and enjoy your retirement.

Egaactly, but in fairness, it's pretty much the same old crew that goes into negetive attack mode whenever the oppurtunity arises.

He did ask for thoughts about providing additional trail magic. There are others here who have a different opinion and have expressed it. Not sure why this is a problem? The amount of "magic" is no longer magical if it's at every road crossing.

[HikerMom58]

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[Rasty]

For the hikers trying to loose weight, are trail feeds just mean?

No...... some hikers are afraid of loosing weight on a hike... they need to be careful not to loose more. Should you just consider the hikers trying to loose weight? People have choices to make for themselves. There are many choices for people everyday.

If someone has an addiction to food maybe a trail feed would be a temptation for them to loose control with it. If someone is a recovered alcoholic offering them a cold beer wouldn't be a good idea either.

I think the point you are trying to make is .... leave everyone alone while they are hiking, unless they ask for or obliviously need help.:D Some hikers would not be happy with you for suggesting this... jus sayin. Trail magic is just part of the tradition for hiking the trail, right now. Like anything, it can be taken too far or done "wrong". It has it's up and downside.

I guess being left alone is too much to ask. This is why I usually hike the AT during the off season. I hiked for a week in the bubble and the only thing I didn't like was the support crews where I was told I was doing it wrong twice by non-hikers.

[MDSection12]

No...... some hikers are afraid of loosing weight on a hike... they need to be careful not to loose more. Should you just consider the hikers trying to loose weight? People have choices to make for themselves. There are many choices for people everyday.

If someone has an addiction to food maybe a trail feed would be a temptation for them to loose control with it. If someone is a recovered alcoholic offering them a cold beer wouldn't be a good idea either.

I think the point you are trying to make is .... leave everyone alone while they are hiking, unless they ask for or obliviously need help.:D Some hikers would not be happy with you for suggesting this... jus sayin. Trail magic is just part of the tradition for hiking the trail, right now. Like anything, it can be taken too far or done "wrong". It has it's up and downside.

I'm fairly new to the trail 'culture' despite not being new to the trail at all, so I may be wrong here but my understanding is that 'trail magic' used to mean chance instances of this kind of thing, not pre-planned, staged events. The ATC FAQ even lists sightings of 'elusive wildlife' as an example... I just like this idea a lot more than setting up 'feeds' at every gap, which seems to be becoming the 'tradition' from what I read here.

[HikerMom58]

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[Malto]

I don't think many would argue that an OCCASIONAL bit of edible "trail magic" is nice, I know the half dozen or so times on my thru I appreciated it. But to many what is good in moderation becomes obnoxious in excess. And when there are massive hiker feeds located miles apart like in GA in peak season, it is no longer a thing of magic and it changes the very character of the experience. Yes, you can walk on by without stopping but it is a further encroachment on what for many is a wilderness experience or as close as the AT allows.

Finally, while not directed at the OP....... I do think there are a few too many hiker groupies. Thru hikers aren't rock stars or heros, they are people on vacation.

[HikerMom58]

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[MDSection12]

1. That's cool MD... tell us if you feel the same way after you do your first long distant hike. Tell us how the walking felt for you. It may not be a big deal to you. :D

2. A lot of thru-hikers are trying to find themselves out there. They don't have it all together, like you say. That's been my feelings when actually interacting with some of them.

1. While it's true that I haven't thru-hiked, I don't think you have either... Perhaps neither of us is qualified to be speaking for that group. The difference is I'm leaving them alone while you're not only going out and seeking them out to interact but also encouraging others to do the same. Both our opinions may be ill-informed but mine is passive. I'm not going out and trying to stop 'trail angels,' I'm simply not encouraging them on here either.

2. They must have it together or they wouldn't be out there, that was my point. Kids 'trying to find themselves' are generally doing so on mommy and daddy's money. I've met two people on the AT that were homeless and out there out of need, and both of them had government checks that were simply easier to stretch on the trail than in town... You compared the real needs of people in every day life with the wants of those on the trail, there is no comparison... That was my only point. :)


Ok.. so, no matter what type of trail magic is given some amount of planning has gone into it for the person actually doing it.

Not true. On one of my very first section hikes I found a can of orange soda on the ground... Not left for someone, just accidentally left. That was 'magic.' ;)

[chief]

In 2000 there was this guy who kept showing up at shelters, road crossings, etc. The first couple of times it was like, "heck yes you can give us a ride into town to pick up beer and pizza for everyone". Then the 3rd. or 4th. time he showed up, it became "this guy is a weirdo".

Also in 2000 there was this couple who had a magnetic sign on their van saying they were "trail angels". Yep, we ate their food, but when they insisted we sign their guest book and handed out "trail angel" cards with their name and address (supposedly we were to send them post cards along the way), it was a little creepy.

My point is, a little random trail magic is good, but don't go too far with it cuz nobody likes or trusts a pack sniffer.

[Pedaling Fool]

In my ideal world all LD hikers need is a trail......and some tail:)

If some one wants to make some hikers happy, then release the loose women:eek:;)

[MDSection12]

...and some tail:)

If some one wants to make some hikers happy, then release the loose women:eek:;)

Well now this is starting to sound like a National Lampoon's production. :p

[rocketsocks]

Well now this is starting to sound like a National Lampoon's production. :p

do you mind if we dance wif yo dates?

[hikerboy57]

what does this"trying to find yourself "mean?
i think the op should do what he wants to do, regardless of all our opinions.the at continues to change, for better or worse.
this ties right into the entitled hikers thread, in that the more trail"magic" that comes about each year, the more there will be hikers who come to expect this "magic" expect there to be a support sytem in place for their every need.and for some of us, it doesnt jibe with the way we've hiked for so many years, to rely as much as possible on your own skills, your own ability.these "support systems"will continue to attract an number of hikers who shouldnt be out there in the first place, feeling that theres always someone around to hold their hand.for many, a trail angel was a miracle. now its more of a job description.but i cant see how we can hold back people who just want to help others. if you dont want the help, then just say no.

[HikerMom58]

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[tawa]

Your doing just fine Hikermom and have no need to justify to these drama creating queens why u do what u do! I've read numerous times when u have offered to help fellow hikers get to the trail in and around your area. Don't change a time about your positive nature the world and the trail needs more hiker moms types and fewer control freaks that think their name is spelled GOD.

[hikerboy57]

Your doing just fine Hikermom and have no need to justify to these drama creating queens why u do what u do! I've read numerous times when u have offered to help fellow hikers get to the trail in and around your area. Don't change a time about your positive nature the world and the trail needs more hiker moms types and fewer control freaks that think their name is spelled GOD.
oh i think hikermom will continue to be the trail angel shes been.shes a great lady and she helps a lot of hikers out there. i had a great time this spring, experienced both real and manufactured trail magic on my trip, and i realized that the at has changed.not better, not worse, just changed.it seemed commercialized and almost cheapened somehow by the festivals and feeds and this is becoming an ever growing circle in that it is what attracts many to the trail, and the more that are attracted to the trail, the more commercialized its destined to become.i enjoyed meeting captain doom who cooked us red hot dogs and gave us iced cold mountain dews. and it was great sitting listening to his stories.it was also great coming upon a full cooler of iced cold pepsis on a warm april morning.
but i do understand and relate to the other side of the coin, and i do believe that more and more trail magic will continue to develop more entitlement issues among hikers.
so i have choices. i can hike the at and accept what it is and have fun with it on those terms, or i can find other trails that will challenge me more and i can find solitude. theres still plenty of those trails out there.i cant expect the trail to change just because i want it to just like i cant expect the world to change either.what i can change is my attitude towards it and learn to have fun with it, and maybe change the trail and the world one person at a tiime.

hikermomkd. i love you.keep on spreading the joy!

[HikerMom58]

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[MDSection12]

We can agree to disagree... But I'm not sure what is so weird? You seem to imply that the opposite of passive is aggressive, which is not true and twists my meaning. Maybe that's why you found my comments so strange?

[atmilkman]

Can't one be passively aggressive and aggressively passive at the same time. Can't one rock Kumbaya.

[HikerMom58]

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[Rasty]

We can agree to disagree... But I'm not sure what is so weird? You seem to imply that the opposite of passive is aggressive, which is not true and twists my meaning. Maybe that's why you found my comments so strange?

Don't worry about it MD... :D


Can't one be passively aggressive and aggressively passive at the same time. Can't one rock Kumbaya.

We can rock the Kumbaya... :) Rasty will jump out of the car if we do! :o

I only say things I believe without parsing words. Love me or hate me!

[hikerboy57]

I only say things I believe without parsing words. Love me or hate me!
i hate you.

naysayer.
and you were doing it wrong

[Malto]

i hate you.

naysayer.
and you were doing it wrong

That was mean!!!! Meany butt!

[Rasty]

I only say things I believe without parsing words. Love me or hate me!
i hate you.

naysayer.
and you were doing it wrong

Excellent! :D

[HikerMom58]

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[Rasty]

If the shelters and feeds were removed the trail would be an improved trail. When I'm able to thru it will be either the PCT or CDT for the above reasons.

[HikerMom58]

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[Malto]

I did a quick count today of the "trail magic" on my PCT thru and there was 1 feeders , one cooler of fruit, a great cooler of beer and soft drinks at one of the worst spots on the trail, snacks from a hostel on the trail, snack and drinks, a barrel of snacks, a cooler of drinks and several beers in an ice cold stream. A total of eight in 2653 miles. But the real angels were the folks that hauled countless gallons of water to some very dry areas. Those I really appreciated but could have managed to handle even if they were there. Trail magic isn't yet out of control onthe PCT, though I was in the back of back in the beginning and front at the end so there may have been more when the much elongated pack went through. There were also a few VERY generous folks that opened up their homes to hundreds of hikers every year. Donna Saufley comes to mind as a true trail angel, no quotes needed.

[rickb]

And this is interesting... if you listen long enough to the ones that aren't a fan of trail magic, it will most likely come out that they have had a really negative experience with it.

I think you are missing something very important. Jack, too.

While in a practical sense you might both correct to observe that the extension of good will by an ever increasing number of angels is all good --and can be easily bypassed with a smile and a nod by those who don't want to participate-- I know my my negative reaction has more complex underpinnings.

Someone used the word "commercialization" in the context of Trail Magic. That comes to close to how I see some of it. Hikers seem to have become a commodity to cuddle and entertain, and to entertain their benefactors in return.

If that really what one want's on the Trail?

[Sly]

Comparing a thru-hike to life just doesn't work. A thru-hike is really only an option for those that already have the basic necessities covered at home. A thru-hike literally is a luxury, despite what it may seem. :)


You're assuming everyone has or wants a home. For some thru-hiking is a live style in which case a home would be a luxury.

[rocketsocks]

Some come for riches
some come to play
some come to find themselves
while others come to stay

[RED-DOG]

Heck in a few years a hiker want even have to carry food just go from one hiker feed to the next and be just fine, it's getting that way know.

[HikerMom58]

............................................

[Trillium]

Great post HM.

I don't understand why many hikers mouth the mantra HYOH but then when circumstances are not in accords with their likes, they say those circumstances should be eliminated. Hikers who don't like shelters should just hike their own hike and hike past them and allow those who do like shelters to hike their own hike by staying in or near them. Same with trail magic. If you are opposed to trail magic, then I say fine, go ahead and hike your own hike and hike right past or do not partake at all. However, you should be willing to let those who wish to partake of trail magic to hiker their own hike and to partake in trail magic.

I started hiking on April 5 and did not do long daily mileage. So, I really wasn't part of the huge hiker bubble. However, during the almost 3 weeks that I was hiking, I only experienced 2 instances of hiker magic related to food. One was 2 gents set up in a gap somewhere between Hawk and Gooch who were grilling hotdogs and sharing cold sodas. The other was a cooler of Little Debbie snacks in a tree shortly after Hog Pen Gap. The trail angel who left the cooler then hiked to Low Gap Shelter where she collected all the trash accumulated from the site and hikers who wanted to offload, then after staying a night, hiked back to collect the cooler and any trash left. In both instances there were hikers who just hiked past and didn't partake. I don't understand how their hikes could have been negatively impacted.

So, my thought is just HYOH and Let others HTOH, that is, don't impose your way of hiking on others.

[Jack Tarlin]

Rick---

Not sure what you mean by "commercialization." If someone is providing rides, shuttles, meals, etc., and only after doing this tries to ding the hiker for money, well of course this is wrong. But if a service is provided and the hiker knows well ahead of time that there's a fee expected for the service, whatever, then I think that's fine. The hiker can decide for themselves whether or not this is something they want. But as for regular "trail magic", which usually involves food but sometimes other things, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would object to this. What is really astounding are the folks who accept these kindnesses......and then say mean things later about it. Real simple: This is the kindness of strangers. If you want to graciously accept it, by all means do so. If you're not interested, then graciously decline. I swear, this isn't rocket science, tho this issue comes up every year. Anyone ever hear the phrase "No, thank you?"

[hikerboy57]

hey jack, it was actually me who used the word commercialization, and i was alluding to the feeds and festivals with vendor booths,etc., not trail angels or trail magic.I honestly found them to be fun on my section hike this spring, neither pro or con, but understand those whove seen the AT evolve into something other than theyd like.
and yes, its easy enough to say no.

[fcoulter]

I did a quick count today of the "trail magic" on my PCT thru and there was 1 feeders , one cooler of fruit, a great cooler of beer and soft drinks at one of the worst spots on the trail, snacks from a hostel on the trail, snack and drinks, a barrel of snacks, a cooler of drinks and several beers in an ice cold stream. A total of eight in 2653 miles. But the real angels were the folks that hauled countless gallons of water to some very dry areas. Those I really appreciated but could have managed to handle even if they were there. Trail magic isn't yet out of control onthe PCT, though I was in the back of back in the beginning and front at the end so there may have been more when the much elongated pack went through. There were also a few VERY generous folks that opened up their homes to hundreds of hikers every year. Donna Saufley comes to mind as a true trail angel, no quotes needed.

I think this leads to a very important point. Each trail has a very different "feel" to it. The more I read about it, the AT is the "social" trail. You hike it if you want to deal with other people. Other hikers. Stuffed shelters. Lots of towns. Zero days that can turn into zero weeks. A NYC zero day. A Broadway show.

And trail magic.

If you don't want to deal with people, there are other, similar length trails out there where people will be rare. Heck, there are similar length trails where the trail itself is in short supply. Hike the trail you want to hike, but don't try to turn all the trails into the same trail.

On the other hand, if there aren't enough people for you on the AT, and you think slackpacking is the way to go, look towards Europe. Several of the long English trails have support options, where you just carry a day pack and sleep in a hotel/hostel/bed&breakfast every day with your luggage being transported for you. Again, look for the trail that meets your needs and expectations. I don't want to turn the AT into the Cross-England, nor do I want to turn the Cross-England into the CDT.

[HikerMom58]

.............................................

[Pedaling Fool]

Everyone is so damn sensitive. People ask for opinions/inputs and we give them, then we're called naysayers, I guess because we hurt someone's feelings:rolleyes:

If you don't want to have your feelings hurt then don't ask the question. It's like everyone wants us just to nod our head and mindlessly agree with everyone.

Now lets all sing Kum bah fuk'in yah ... geez, stop being so sensitive:rolleyes:

[MDSection12]

Everyone is so damn sensitive. People ask for opinions/inputs and we give them, then we're called naysayers, I guess because we hurt someone's feelings:rolleyes:

If you don't want to have your feelings hurt then don't ask the question. It's like everyone wants us just to nod our head and mindlessly agree with everyone.

Now lets all sing Kum bah fuk'in yah ... geez, stop being so sensitive:rolleyes:

This issue is particularly difficult in that respect, because us 'naysayers' are telling really nice, thoughtful people that we don't appreciate their efforts. I understand why that's an unpopular opinion.

I wouldn't say any of the stuff I've said here to a 'trail angel' out on the trail, unless they specifically asked my opinion... But this is a discussion forum, we discuss things. I feel that this is the perfect place to express my opinion and hear the opinions of others. I don't get offended if someone tells me something I don't want to hear. As long as the conversation remains civil (which it almost always does on this site) then I see no problem with a little disagreement. :)

[TD55]

Some, maybe most, folks come here with questions and posts expecting or in need of accurate, rational and reasonable responses. Not everyone is looking for a kind of chat room full of opinions that are far removed from the OP. This thread is a good example. Person posts about plans to cruise the AT in a RV and maybe do some trail angle stuff. He gets a little in the way of advice and suggestions, but tons of negative bs and all kinds of opinions about the trail angel topic in general. The part I find disturbing is that some posters give their opinion over, and over, and over and a relatively small group or clique seems to just take over and in the end, kind of wreck the thread by imposing their own chat room nonsense into it. Even when other posters point out in a subtle and nice way, the the thread is getting ugly, they ignore the other members and seem to give themselves underserved self importance and isnsist that everyone has to listen to them, or else.

[MDSection12]

The OP said 'any thoughts?' :-?

I'm sorry if people need a lesson on the internet, but don't come onto a discussion forum and ask for 'any thoughts' and not expect a range of responses. In fact there's a 'straight forward' forum for those that would like to avoid that outcome. I don't go into those threads unless I have specific advice. :)

[TD55]

So if people disagree with your demeanor, they need a lesson on how to use the internet, by who MD, you?? You feel comfortable telling people what forums they can go on? BTW, I notice many of your post refer to "us" and "we". Do you represent some AT Hiker group we are unaware of?

[Rasty]

So if people disagree with your demeanor, they need a lesson on how to use the internet, by who MD, you?? You feel comfortable telling people what forums they can go on? BTW, I notice many of your post refer to "us" and "we". Do you represent some AT Hiker group we are unaware of?

Same questions addressed to you.

[MDSection12]

So if people disagree with your demeanor, they need a lesson on how to use the internet, by who MD, you?? You feel comfortable telling people what forums they can go on? BTW, I notice many of your post refer to "us" and "we". Do you represent some AT Hiker group we are unaware of?
No if someone disagrees with my demeanor, meaning they think I'm being disrespectful or rude and not just they disagree with the content of my post, then I'd like them to tell me that so I can address it... Not make vague posts about 'some posters.' I can get out of line at times and when someone points that out to me I apologize and do my best to correct the behavior, like most civil people. I asked HM what she found 'weird' in my post because I genuinely did not see where I had crossed a line, she declined to answer me so I still don't see it... Care to correct me?

In this case 'us' refers to those that share my opinion. There were several in this thread and your post was vague enough that I couldn't tell who you were referring to... But now I'm guessing it was directed at me. No biggie, I'm open to criticism. :)

[MDSection12]

Same questions addressed to you.
I was thinking the same thing. That entire post could be turned the other way. :-?

[rickb]

If you want to graciously accept it, by all means do so. If you're not interested, then graciously decline.

Of course. And whether one accepts the generosity of a stranger or not, I hope that all of us would appreciate the kind spirit in which it is given.

Perhaps my take is too theoretical. People like Jack -- who really live the hiking life -- certainly have a clear take on the reality of the day. I recognize they may hold the greater truth.

It's just that I see the Trail itself providing the magic. And I am not just talking about the views and animals and the like. I most definitely include the churches, and bars and abutters and hunters and day hikers and neighbors -- each with a proximate relationship to the AT -- some who become angels for a day and others for a lifetime.

I know the distinction is small, but I can't help but think that (by and large) those of us "from away" can sort of dilute the magic that is born from the trail itself-- when we come to the trail with the express surprise of dolling out our largess to the current crop of thru hikers. Or at least it's import.

But yea, I do recognize that an ice cream cone scooped by one of 10,000 (and growing)former thru hikers who drove 200 miles to seek you and your brethren out, will be just as delicious as one provided by a local who was once puzzled baby the parade of grungy men and women walking down his road.

i am sure we share a similar hope that the magic found along the AT endures for decade upon decade no matter how it evolves.

[curtisvowen]

Fresh Grounds, who I saw near Erwin, is following a group of early season thrus up the trail. Pretty sure that Curtis knew of him. I think he stays at a given location for about two weeks, then heads a couple weeks up trail.

I personally would not like to see too much of this, but the early season thrus seem to be big fans. On that particular day, a long hot dayhike, I was a fan too. If done LNT, seems pretty harmless, except to businesses located just after the "angel" locations.
Yea that's what got my goat and part of the reason I responded and I'm not good at putting "paper to pen" but I'll take the heat.
I lost over $400 dollars worth of business just this year alone because of him and another like it last year.
Hikers countered "but he's sending people to you" ....as if I need that. He knew about me and the Hostel.
So, I'll jack up my prices to counter what I've lost? etc...etc...etc.
Every nickel and dime goes back to keeping everything running. I'm just a middle man to the bank.
If wasn't for hikers I wouldn't be an all year...full-time self employed guy nor enjoy living the life I do taking car of hikers.....for that I thank you my dear hiker.
However, if you want to leave your "trail magic" along Interstate 40 and I have to clean the trash up that ain't right.
Did I tell you about the bear problems we have? No. Thanks for feeding them with your "left out in the woods" trail magic.
Other then that I don't care if there's a steak dinner for all the thrus at all the Gaps from GA/Ma.
Should be to "stickys" on the homepage of Whiteblaze....how to hike GSMNP and how to conduct trail magic.

[HikerMom58]

.......................................

[TD55]

Oh goodness HikerMom, my post wasn't meant to be reflection on you at all. It's obvious you are a natural born angel with or without a trail. You grasp things quickly, re-adjust and adapt with no complaints and always listen to what others have to say. Sorry you thought the shoe fit. It doesn't.

[Double Wide]

If you don't like Trail Magic, just go hike the damn CDT. Ain't too many hiker feeds going on out there.... :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you don't like it, ignore it, say 'no thank you', and move on.

I really don't understand the hostility of people against hiker feeds and trail magic and the people who provide it. Nobody begrudges you if you prefer to be an anti-social hermit, especially while you're out on the trail, and the miles under your boots didn't give you a deeper understanding than the rest of us about how the trail 'should' be. Clearly experience doesn't equal wisdom.

If a guy wants to be generous and spend his extra time and money doing something nice for hikers, WHO THE EFF ARE YOU TO DUMP ALL OVER IT???? Who are you to tell him how he SHOULD spend his money instead? That is the height of arrogance.

Y'all may have a lot of miles on the trail, but you've never walked in anyone's boots but your own. If somebody chooses to be part of the trail community by being generous and providing a service, instead of doing a thru hike, what's it to you?

Here's an idea--instead of sitting here on WB telling people how wrong they are, why don't you go out and actually do something nice for somebody else, just for giggles, without any expectation of getting anything in return. Then you might actually *understand* where the original poster is coming from.

Or you could just sit there and be a bitter grump.

[max patch]

If you don't like Trail Magic, just go hike the damn CDT. Ain't too many hiker feeds going on out there.... :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you don't like it, ignore it, say 'no thank you', and move on.

I really don't understand the hostility of people against hiker feeds and trail magic and the people who provide it. Nobody begrudges you if you prefer to be an anti-social hermit, especially while you're out on the trail, and the miles under your boots didn't give you a deeper understanding than the rest of us about how the trail 'should' be. Clearly experience doesn't equal wisdom.

If a guy wants to be generous and spend his extra time and money doing something nice for hikers, WHO THE EFF ARE YOU TO DUMP ALL OVER IT???? Who are you to tell him how he SHOULD spend his money instead? That is the height of arrogance.

Y'all may have a lot of miles on the trail, but you've never walked in anyone's boots but your own. If somebody chooses to be part of the trail community by being generous and providing a service, instead of doing a thru hike, what's it to you?

Here's an idea--instead of sitting here on WB telling people how wrong they are, why don't you go out and actually do something nice for somebody else, just for giggles, without any expectation of getting anything in return. Then you might actually *understand* where the original poster is coming from.

Or you could just sit there and be a bitter grump.

Or you could explain to us why you are right and the ATC is wrong.

I'm serious.

What do you (and others) know that the ATC doesn't?

[Double Wide]

I did not know that the ATC was against people providing trail magic.

[max patch]

I did not know that the ATC was against people providing trail magic.

They're not. They're against hiker feeds.

They state that if you want to "give back" to the trail that you get involved with trail maintenance.

They state that if you feel you "must" do a trail feed that you do it away from the trail. Preferably in a town, but at a minimum away from the trail and on a hard surface.

They go on to state that if you are going to give a trail feed that you do not advertise it.

I believe in erring on the side of the trail.

So if the ATC is wrong tell us why. Convince us that they are wrong.

I'm serious.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I did not know that the ATC was against people providing trail magic.

As recently as last year, the ATC FAQ page included a passage directly discouraging hiker feeds. They seem to have recently replaced it with the following:
WHAT IS TRAIL MAGIC?
The term “trail magic” was coined by long-distance hikers to describe an unexpected occurrence that lifts a hiker’s spirits and inspires awe or gratitude. “Trail magic” may be as simple as being offered a candy bar by a passing hiker or spotting an elusive species of wildlife. The work of A.T. volunteers, who devote hundreds of thousands of hours to the A.T. every year to maintain and protect it, is sometimes considered the “ultimate trail magic.” If you are considering providing trail magic, please click here to review these suggestions.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/faqs

Additionally they have provided this .pdf on the subject:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-document-library/suggestions-for-providing-trail-magic.pdf

[Lone Wolf]

I did not know that the ATC was against people providing trail magic.

trail magic has nothin' to do with feeds

[Colter]

The negativity on this thread is astounding. If you want to do some trail magic and help folks out while doing some hiking on your own.....well I think that's great. And as to trail magic or kindness "interjecting" on someone's hike, or "ruining it," well here's a thought: While on the Trail, just as when at home, when someone kindly offers you something you're not interested in, you look them in the eye, smile, say "No, thank you!" and you go about your business. This is not that difficult a concept. Those not interested in Trail magic have a simple expedient......decline it and keep walking. If the guy who hits the crossing or parking lot five minutes behind you decides to accept a Pepsi or a burger from a stranger, well how this negatively impacts or damages your own journey completely escapes me.

Right on Jack.

[joshuasdad]

Yea that's what got my goat and part of the reason I responded and I'm not good at putting "paper to pen" but I'll take the heat.
I lost over $400 dollars worth of business just this year alone because of him and another like it last year.
Hikers countered "but he's sending people to you" ....as if I need that. He knew about me and the Hostel.
So, I'll jack up my prices to counter what I've lost? etc...etc...etc.
Every nickel and dime goes back to keeping everything running. I'm just a middle man to the bank.
If wasn't for hikers I wouldn't be an all year...full-time self employed guy nor enjoy living the life I do taking car of hikers.....for that I thank you my dear hiker.
However, if you want to leave your "trail magic" along Interstate 40 and I have to clean the trash up that ain't right.
Did I tell you about the bear problems we have? No. Thanks for feeding them with your "left out in the woods" trail magic.
Other then that I don't care if there's a steak dinner for all the thrus at all the Gaps from GA/Ma.
Should be to "stickys" on the homepage of Whiteblaze....how to hike GSMNP and how to conduct trail magic.

I think that Fresh Grounds may have learned a few lessons there at Davenport Gap, and was setting up in spots not right before an existing business. Last location I heard was about 8 miles north of Route 60--PAST the turnoff to Buena Vista--in mid-April.

I hope to be stopping by in November with an appetite and can help make up that $400 deficit. Thanks for all the help you have provided to hikers!

[HikerMom58]

I think that Fresh Grounds may have learned a few lessons there at Davenport Gap, and was setting up in spots not right before an existing business. Last location I heard was about 8 miles north of Route 60--PAST the turnoff to Buena Vista--in mid-April.

I hope to be stopping by in November with an appetite and can help make up that $400 deficit. Thanks for all the help you have provided to hikers!

Sweet!! :)

[Gray Blazer]

They're not. They're against hiker feeds.

They state that if you want to "give back" to the trail that you get involved with trail maintenance.

They state that if you feel you "must" do a trail feed that you do it away from the trail. Preferably in a town, but at a minimum away from the trail and on a hard surface.

They go on to state that if you are going to give a trail feed that you do not advertise it.

I believe in erring on the side of the trail.

So if the ATC is wrong tell us why. Convince us that they are wrong.

I'm serious.

They would have done well in the old Soviet Union.

[max patch]

They would have done well in the old Soviet Union.

When you make a comment like that in the interest of full disclosure you should state that you have conducted trail feeds in the past.

[max patch]

I'd love to think that Jack's "just smile and say no thank you" philosophy is fine.

But the ATC obviously has a reason for the policy they have adopted.

I'd love to see Laurie and Jack in a thread open only to them debate this issue.

[MDSection12]

I'd love to think that Jack's "just smile and say no thank you" philosophy is fine.

But the ATC obviously has a reason for the policy they have adopted.

I'd love to see Laurie and Jack in a thread open only to them debate this issue.

I think you're reading too much into the ATC's statement to be honest... Maybe it used to be more harsh, and maybe that's how many at the ATC really feel, but for whatever reason they changed it to a much more accepting wording. It certainly doesn't seem to be encouraging pre-planned 'trail magic' but I don't think it's condemning it either.

I basically just think people need to be aware that just because they're 'doing something nice' doesn't always mean it's the right thing to do. That's really my only point in all my posts, though I didn't articulate it particularly well. That doesn't mean no one should do it, just means that people should be aware of the different perspectives on this behavior before they decide to go out and do it.

[rickb]

L
But the ATC obviously has a reason for the policy they have adopted.
.

Policy?

What policy?

The ATC has simply expressed its opinion.

People can and will do whatever they want.

I think it obvious that the ATC wants to protect the character of trail experience as well as the physical trail

[Sarcasm the elf]

They would have done well in the old Soviet Union.
In Soviet Russia, hikers feed you...

[HikerMom58]

..........................................

[susiecruise]

I'd love to think that Jack's "just smile and say no thank you" philosophy is fine.

But the ATC obviously has a reason for the policy they have adopted.

I'd love to see Laurie and Jack in a thread open only to them debate this issue.

Other than providing water during dry times or a lift into town, I think its better to not feed the wildlife

[Rasty]

other than providing water during dry times or a lift into town, i think its better to not feed the wildlife

love it! Love it! Love it!

[Jack Tarlin]

Just to clarify a few things: I've seen the ATC "guidelines" and suggestions regarding Trail magic, feeds, etc., and in truth, i have no problem with them at all. I think a lot of what the ATC is saying makes great sense. Leaving (and collecting/refilling) water jugs at Trail crossings during dry periods? Very cool. Leaving untended coolers that become trash magnets within days? Not cool. Throwing a big noisy bash at a secluded place like Antler's Campsite in Maine? Unacceptable. Throwing a cookout in a public park like Bear Mountain? Perfectly fine. But the anti-Trail Magic chorus can get a little shrill sometimes. There are certainly times and places where people might want to re-think what they're doing and where they are doing it. But grilling some hot dogs and giving away a few orange sodas in a parking lot is not a diabolic plot to destroy anyone's woodland experience. As has been stated many times before, people who disapprove of such things or simply don't wish to partake can simply keep walking. The amount of time and energy spent on this subject annually is astounding. The simplest way to express your displeasure over someone with a hibachi in a parking lot is to leave the parking lot. That this concept seems to be so difficult for some folks to fathom amazes me.

[Malto]

The type of "trail magic" that I like to do is different from what the OP is thinking about doing. I live really close to the trail, as you all know. I feel connected to this community. I have made a lot of life long friends while interacting with this group of people, both on and off the trail.

I will say this.... if you don't like making connections with others and don't like accepting kind gestures as a result of those friendships than feel free to do what makes you feel the most comfortable. All "you guys" will pay the going rate for shuttles and pass up countless offerings to make your journey a lil more comfortable... that's really what it's all about.

If you talk the talk on here then we expect you to walk the walk out there. The true character of a person is what a person does when no one is looking.

HM, I think you are missing the point that many are making. Few will argue that an occasional bit of "trail magic" can really hit the spot. If you read through my thru hike journal you will see that I loved it and i listed a couple of pages back all the occasions i saw. But what is good in moderation is not good in extreme. When there are feeds just miles apart it become too much AT LEAST TO ME. And to the original point of this thread, a roving feed, it becomes an order of magnitude more intrusive. Combine that with other kind hearted people doing the same thing and it hits extreme. So no hypocrisy if in the future I sit and drink a beer from an ice cold spring that someone left, regardless of whether folks are looking or not.

[Lemni Skate]

For the record, I already knew some people thought trail magic was a bad thing. I wasn't surprised by people saying things like, "Too many people feeding hikers already." I was amazed by people who thought they should tell me to go work in a disaster area as if I'm being evil to try to enjoy myself. AS if only counts as being a good person if you help who they think should be helped in the way the think the help should be delivered. Not that I need to defend myself, but I've done mission work all my life, I am looking to do something a little different.

However, I shouldn't have been surprised after pastoring a church for 11 years. If you go repair a house for an elderly couple in your neighborhood there will always be someone who thinks the couple didn't deserve it because of something about their lifestyle and there will always be others who knew a better project you could've done. Not that those people often take it upon themselves to do the other project.

Different visions for what the trail should be have existed ever since the very beginning. Some people think it should never pass through a town. Some people think it should go through as many towns as possible.

[Pedaling Fool]

Every time one of these threads comes up you always hear something to the effect of: "If you don't want it, just smile and politely decline and keep walking...".

Well, that's exactly what I started doing somewhere in NC in 2006. When I first started in Georgia in Mar. '06 my first Trail Feed was not too far in the trip and I did partake, not really knowing anything about them, I just thought it was an abnormality.

However, I quickly learned they are quite common, so common I started to get sick of them, mainly because there was this crazy frenzy, even before you got there, sometimes days before you got there (hence that is a major reason some are so much against referring to them as Trail Magic).

So, like I said, somewhere in NC I finally said, No Thanks. At the time there we're not too many hikers around, it turned out to be a church group (bible thumpers) that were shuttling hikers to a house ~1/4-mile away, so all that I heard was, "Are you sure, we got....Are sure, it's free....blah, blah, blah" I finally got away from them, only to later hear from hikers that they had to sit thru a sermon before they got their "Magic" :D


Like I said, in that instance I only had to say No Thanks to the offerers, but I soon learned that when I tried to say No Thanks (with a smile :)) to offerers as well as a gaggle of hikers, it wasn't so easy to just Smile and say No Thanks.


I can only compare it to a really drunk friend or just a really drunk person that tries to get you to drink with them and they will NOT accept NO for an answer, despite you not being able to drink. I think everyone has had that experience at least once. The really persistant drunk, or worse drunks that do everything to persuade you to drink with them.


Yeah, sure just say No Thanks and keep walking, that'll work:rolleyes:

[Lemni Skate]

It's amazing that the trail attracts all types of people. Not just your type of people.

[Pedaling Fool]

It's amazing that the trail attracts all types of people. Not just your type of people.
And I understand I'm in the minority, actually I'm very much a minority and I'm just giving that minority opinion.

[Jeff]

If you don't like feeds, do your thru SOBO. Those folks don't get the love.:)

[rickb]

I wish that I had never participated in this thread. The conclusion I have finally come to is that Feeds and Preplanned Trail Magic are as inevitable and unavoidable as cell phones. Hardly matters what on's opinion is. Those who think differently are good people and have the tide behind them.

That being that, any further input on the topic from me here or elsewhere is irrelevant at best, and potentially hurtful. Though never intended that way.

Party on. The trail will still be there tomorrow.

[1azarus]

admittedly, I only read the first page of posts... but I have read most of the How to Speak Bear book someone posted (elsewhere on WB) about being a free kindle book. I can't help but think we should treat thru hikers like grizzly bears. Admire them...from afar. Certainly don't try to feed them. Maybe take pictures of them with a telephoto lens.

[Slo-go'en]

If someone wants to give me food, sure I'll take it. Why the heck not? If they went through all that trouble, hate to disapoint them. Somebody's got to eat it, so why not me?

[tawa]

Every time one of these threads comes up you always hear something to the effect of: "If you don't want it, just smile and politely decline and keep walking...".

Well, that's exactly what I started doing somewhere in NC in 2006. When I first started in Georgia in Mar. '06 my first Trail Feed was not too far in the trip and I did partake, not really knowing anything about them, I just thought it was an abnormality.

However, I quickly learned they are quite common, so common I started to get sick of them, mainly because there was this crazy frenzy, even before you got there, sometimes days before you got there (hence that is a major reason some are so much against referring to them as Trail Magic).

So, like I said, somewhere in NC I finally said, No Thanks. At the time there we're not too many hikers around, it turned out to be a church group (bible thumpers) that were shuttling hikers to a house ~1/4-mile away, so all that I heard was, "Are you sure, we got....Are sure, it's free....blah, blah, blah" I finally got away from them, only to later hear from hikers that they had to sit thru a sermon before they got their "Magic" :D


Like I said, in that instance I only had to say No Thanks to the offerers, but I soon learned that when I tried to say No Thanks (with a smile :)) to offerers as well as a gaggle of hikers, it wasn't so easy to just Smile and say No Thanks.


I can only compare it to a really drunk friend or just a really drunk person that tries to get you to drink with them and they will NOT accept NO for an answer, despite you not being able to drink. I think everyone has had that experience at least once. The really persistant drunk, or worse drunks that do everything to persuade you to drink with them.


Yeah, sure just say No Thanks and keep walking, that'll work:rolleyes:

Yep remember that free meal offer just off the trail. Passed the offer and kept on hiking my buds went up for the free food and said later they had to sit through a sermon etc. Trying to Christianize and Civlize thru-hiker trash! lol
Moral to the story---NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!!**

[HikerMom58]

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[susiecruise]

HM, I think you are missing the point that many are making. Few will argue that an occasional bit of "trail magic" can really hit the spot. If you read through my thru hike journal you will see that I loved it and i listed a couple of pages back all the occasions i saw. But what is good in moderation is not good in extreme. When there are feeds just miles apart it become too much AT LEAST TO ME. And to the original point of this thread, a roving feed, it becomes an order of magnitude more intrusive. Combine that with other kind hearted people doing the same thing and it hits extreme. So no hypocrisy if in the future I sit and drink a beer from an ice cold spring that someone left, regardless of whether folks are looking or not.

My husband claimed to be a beer angel these last two years.. I said, I didn't know if that was a good idea.. He said, "No one has ever refused a beer"

[hikerboy57]

Malto- I think that's the problem. "Trail Magic" is too broad of a word. It means too many different things. So, if you are going to say negative things about "trail magic" define exactly what you don't like and why? If you don't then it all gets thrown in together.

Enjoy that cold beer! :)

I just got back from doing a shuttle, for a section hiker. While I was going to get her, I saw a thru-hiker with his thumb out needing a ride. He needed to go right where I was going so it worked out perfect. :) I was telling him about this thread. I said, "There's a thread on WB where peeps are complaining about trail magic". Before I could say anything else, he goes, "Oh you mean they are complaining b/c there's not enough trail magic?"

I said, "NO, they are complaining about there being too much, TM."... and some don't like it at all. He said, "Whaaat?!?!" He went on 2 say that it was just internet BS, people just say crap & act like * holes.

We didn't break it down very far and didn't discuss all the truly negative aspects and actual negative encounters some hikers have had with TM.

That's why threads like this are so difficult. Everything is not black & white and is hard to define. Experiences always vary from person to person.
"Trail magic" takes on many different forms.

OP.. I hope you can wade through all of this and do what you feel is right in your own heart. Also, realize that TM, to some, doesn't always bring a smile to their face for different and sometimes ligament reasons. Be sensitive to every hikers feelings, have a blast and go spread some joy!! :)

Have a great time hiking the trail, yourself. :)

your thru hiker encounter is a perfect example of people coming to expect "magic" as part of their ticket.i saw a few incidents of hikers actually being disappointed at the road crossings when there was no magic waiting for them, almost like they felt cheated.

[atmilkman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKX6GOmTGBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SKX6GOmTGBA

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

I wish that I had never participated in this thread. The conclusion I have finally come to is that Feeds and Preplanned Trail Magic are as inevitable and unavoidable as cell phones. Hardly matters what on's opinion is. Those who think differently are good people and have the tide behind them.

That being that, any further input on the topic from me here or elsewhere is irrelevant at best, and potentially hurtful. Though never intended that way.

Party on. The trail will still be there tomorrow.
so glad most of my walkin on the AT was "back in the day". real "trail magic" was rare. sittin' around the shelter area we talked about what we were gonna eat when we got to town. there were no feeds at roads, no shuttle services, cell phones. hitching for 3 hours was a part of the gig. good times

[HikerMom58]

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[hikerboy57]

Ahhh.... I didn't get the vibe that he expected it at all, HB. He was just blown away by the fact that people would complain about "too much", TM. Even more so by the fact that some wouldn't like it all. He just talked about how friendly Daleville was to hikers and how much he appreciated it. He went to the Troutville Trail days and said he enjoyed that more than the bigger Damascus Trail Days.... just so nice, he was....
I ended up helping out 2 other hikers that needed a shuttle back to Glascow. It just worked out perfect. I didn't go out of my way at all and I helped out 3 hikers, unexpectantly. I will say that the 3 hikers that I gave a ride too were extremely polite and extremely appreciative. They thanked me over and over. They even wanted a hug from me. They apologized for their smell but I told them I didn't care... I love those smelly hugs! :)

They just appreciate running into people that understand what they are doing, can talk "trail talk" with them and are willing to help them out. They asked if they could be my friend on WB... so funny!! So young too... like 22-25 years old. One was from CT. I can't remember where the girl was from.. the other guy was from Birmingham AL.
I don't know, I just like meeting them and helping them out. I didn't detect any entitlement issues with them at all.

i too found everyone i came across this spring to be friendly and helpful, but i also saw hikers that were truly disappointed when there was no magic waiting for them at a road crossing, especially when they had heard other hikers had recieved trail magic at the same spot the day before.

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

"a footpath for those that seek fellowship with the wilderness". but so-called "angels", packsniffers and do-gooders wanna feed you at every road, shelter, town, privy. blah blah blah. STAY OFF THE FOOTPATH!

[TD55]

There used to be a guy in New York that would put a table and chair with a pitcher of lemonade and little paper cups on the trail. Ok, there was a note there with an invitation to follow the side trail to his place for other stuff, but the point is, the pitcher would last all day and hikers would be satified with one or two small cups of lemonade and leave the rest for the hikers that followed. For some reason I'm not sure that would work today. To me, that was magic on a hot day and water supply being what it is on that section of trail. Magic from the guy and magic from other hikers who cared about the hikers that followed.

[Pendragon]

On my section to Damascus, I had too suffer the horrors of wonderful, generous people being there just when I needed them the most, not always when I wanted them. If only we could get rid of them so getting into town or being rescued from life-threatening weather conditions could truly be hard to come by......

Some of you guys need to go join the French Foreign Legion where you can enjoy your deprevations and suffering.....we'll enjoy and APPRECIATE our trail angels, TYVM!

[shelb]

Wow, wasn't expecting to get attacked so much. .

I think the idea is cool... HYOH should be DYOT (do your own thing!).

Your intentions, spirit, and actions will be in the interests of others! Thank you!

[finish9]

I am for more angels not less. They have a heart of gold.

[Gray Blazer]

When you make a comment like that in the interest of full disclosure you should state that you have conducted trail feeds in the past.

There you go again ... I'm just not into one or two or a minority of people telling others what they must do.

In the interest of full disclosure, which I have nothing against, I did make some ham and eggs for some hikers on top of Rocky Bald (the ATC would have sent me to the gulag for that) in the blizzard of March 2006 for three days. I had a blast.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/mountainsvi_165.jpg

The Soviet Russia thing was a stupid comment. I'm old and get in a mood sometimes. Peace out.

[MDSection12]

On my section to Damascus, I had too suffer the horrors of wonderful, generous people being there just when I needed them the most, not always when I wanted them. If only we could get rid of them so getting into town or being rescued from life-threatening weather conditions could truly be hard to come by......

Some of you guys need to go join the French Foreign Legion where you can enjoy your deprevations and suffering.....we'll enjoy and APPRECIATE our trail angels, TYVM!

HM is very correct on this one; we need to seperate forms of 'trail magic' in these discussions to be clear. I don't have any problem with people giving rides to hikers. I shuttled one to Harper's Ferry last night. :)

[wornoutboots]

"a footpath for those that seek fellowship with the wilderness". but so-called "angels", packsniffers and do-gooders wanna feed you at every road, shelter, town, privy. blah blah blah. STAY OFF THE FOOTPATH!

.....Privy :D

[HikerMom58]

There you go again ... I'm just not into one or two or a minority of people telling others what they must do.

In the interest of full disclosure, which I have nothing against, I did make some ham and eggs for some hikers on top of Rocky Bald (the ATC would have sent me to the gulag for that) in the blizzard of March 2006 for three days. I had a blast.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/mountainsvi_165.jpg

The Soviet Russia thing was a stupid comment. I'm old and get in a mood sometimes. Peace out.

We love ya GB!! :) This pic is AWESOME!!

[Lone Wolf]

nothing should be left unattended in trees or on the ground or in streams. period

[MDSection12]

nothing should be left unattended in trees or on the ground or in streams. period

Agreed....

[HikerMom58]

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[HikerMom58]

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[Alligator]

Disagree.....A bear would be more than happy to tear up a bag of apples.

[MDSection12]

Fresh mandarin oranges may be nice to eat, but they don't belong in the woods around here... How is that any different from any other type of litter?

[MDSection12]

Oh that's right, anything pleasant for hikers doesn't count as litter. :rolleyes:

[HikerMom58]

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[MDSection12]

Disagree.....
http://lnt.org/learn/7-principles

Looks like you'd be breaking at least four by leaving that bag of oranges.

[Lone Wolf]

Hey... do I need to come down and give you another hug? :-? What if there were fresh mandarin oranges hanging from a tree?... you like them... I noticed. ;) Moonshine left in streams for LW... magical. It could happen, you never know... what goes around comes around.... You gave out TM- it may come back to you!! ;) Feel the love!! :)

like i said, nothing should ever be left unattended. ever

[HikerMom58]

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[Alligator]

I saw the bag of oranges in the tree around Cold Mtn. in the middle of hiker season. I think they would be snatched up pretty quickly by humans. I hope so, if not, the bears got some free fruit. They get free fruit all the time in the woods. You didn't use a "face" are you nay or yay about bears getting free fruit? I watch deer in my back yard eating my apples from my apple tree every year.
Bears get food from wild sources. When they habituate on human provided sources they become problems. Problem bears get shot. No smilie for that. Food should not be left unattended (accessibly) per LNT. Not feeding the wildlife is expert opinion on the subject.

[MDSection12]

I can understand why you feel that way. I accept that you feel that way. I don't do it much myself. I can see the "downside" to doing it, I know that's why I don't do it that much. I don't have a problem when others leave stuff unattended & like I said, I occasionally do it myself.

I have received positive feedback when I have left things in the shelters... It was very much appreciated- it was slightly off season so section hikers enjoyed it. :) I went back to see if there was any trash left behind... there was none. Just the notes of appreciation. :D I was trying to do something for SOBO's since they seem to be ignored.

See, again you reference appreciative hikers as if that enters into the argument... Why does that matter? It's against LNT principles... Several of them, in several categories... Why does making hikers happy trump LNT?

[HikerMom58]

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[HikerMom58]

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[hikerboy57]

I can understand why you feel that way. I accept that you feel that way. I don't do it much myself. I can see the "downside" to doing it, I know that's why I don't do it that much. I don't have a problem when others leave stuff unattended & like I said, I occasionally do it myself.

I have received positive feedback when I have left things in the shelters... It was very much appreciated- it was slightly off season so section hikers enjoyed it. :) I went back to see if there was any trash left behind... there was none. Just the notes of appreciation. :D I was trying to do something for SOBO's since they seem to be ignored.
many sobos choose to go sobo because it is a less social hike.aside from time constraints, if they wanted to be a part of "trail magic experience",they would go nobo with the bubble

[MDSection12]

Just b/c they are appreciative doesn't mean anything to me, either. I'm not saying that at all. I don't have a problem with leaving things unattended as long as I go back and make sure there's no trash left behind. I don't know if everyone does that or not but I do. I wasn't as aware of that being a problem until someone brought it up on WB... now it's a "biggie" to me. I make sure I go back and check to see that there is no trace. :)

You're not getting it. I'm not gonna continue though, because you'll accuse me of being rude and threaten to ignore me again. I suppose I'll just leave it with one of these. :)

[HikerMom58]

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[MDSection12]

That's fine MD... if we could sit down and talk in person, I'm sure we would understand each other so much better. I don't have bad feelings towards you at all. You're fine! We'll just leave :)'s for each other... I like that! :)

Ya we're good. Even if it means different things to each of us, we both have a love for the trail. It's best we remember we're on the same team. :)

[hikerboy57]

[QUOTE=HikerMomKD;1486340]I was encouraged by a NOBO thru hiker living on the West Coast to go out there and not to forget about the SOBO's. I've heard a lot of them complain about getting left out... not in a entitled way at all ....just noticing they don't get much TM. It's fine! :) This is the first I've ever heard that hikers purposely try to "escape" TM... whatever floats ones boat. Here we go again! :)
if youve heard a lot of them complain, then theyve got entitlement issues.
neither escaping or expecting. hiking.magic happens. let it be magical

[HikerMom58]

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[fcoulter]

[QUOTE=HikerMomKD;1486340]I was encouraged by a NOBO thru hiker living on the West Coast to go out there and not to forget about the SOBO's. I've heard a lot of them complain about getting left out... not in a entitled way at all ....just noticing they don't get much TM. It's fine! :) This is the first I've ever heard that hikers purposely try to "escape" TM... whatever floats ones boat. Here we go again! :)
if youve heard a lot of them complain, then theyve got entitlement issues.
neither escaping or expecting. hiking.magic happens. let it be magical

The question is what do they feel entitled for? If it's the free food, etc., then you've got a point. But many of the people I've heard talking about trail magic received talk about getting together with some other hikers, conversations with the hikers and the angels, etc. I have a hard time defining people who are social as havnig entitlement issues.

[fcoulter]

Boy, the quote attribution was messed up on that last post. Sorry.

[hikerboy57]

yes i was talking about the free food.

[Lone Wolf]

I can understand why you feel that way. I accept that you feel that way. I don't do it much myself. I can see the "downside" to doing it, I know that's why I don't do it that much. I don't have a problem when others leave stuff unattended & like I said, I occasionally do it myself.

I have received positive feedback when I have left things in the shelters... It was very much appreciated- it was slightly off season so section hikers enjoyed it. :) I went back to see if there was any trash left behind... there was none. Just the notes of appreciation. :D I was trying to do something for SOBO's since they seem to be ignored.maybe SOBOs want to be left alone. hikers do have food and water and money

[HikerMom58]

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[hikerboy57]

thats where theres a big disconnect here. why does anyone expect trail magic? at all?you dont think thats an entitlement mentality? i do.

[HikerMom58]

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[Rasty]

thats where theres a big disconnect here. why does anyone expect trail magic? at all?you dont think thats an entitlement mentality? i do.

If you know it's coming it's no longer Trail Magic.

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

thats where theres a big disconnect here. why does anyone expect trail magic? at all?you dont think thats an entitlement mentality? i do.
this "trail magic" feed crap has totally changed the face of the trail. it's not even trail magic. it's B S

[Lone Wolf]

It is a part of the trail tradition. If you look at the video- Beauty beneath the Dirt, it's right in there.

NOT tradition at all

[hikerboy57]

It is a part of the trail tradition. If you look at the video- Beauty beneath the Dirt, it's right in there.
but it aint in the sobo tradition, so if you chose to hike sobo, why would you be disappointed you didnt recieve something you shouldnt have expeted in the first place

[HikerMom58]

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[HikerMom58]

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[max patch]

It is a part of the trail tradition. If you look at the video- Beauty beneath the Dirt, it's right in there.

How old is this "tradition"?

I thru'd back in the day and had zero trail feeds.

[Lone Wolf]

How old is this "tradition"?

I thru'd back in the day and had zero trail feeds.
yeah really.

[Lone Wolf]

Are we talking about the same thing?

trail feeds are a new "tradition" that are outa control. especially when it's for "thru-hikers only"

[HikerMom58]

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[HikerMom58]

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[Gray Blazer]

Since I've been outed and persuaded to give a full disclosure (not forced) I will say that my outing was more like a party out in the woods that a person could come to but they had to walk there. A year ago last march I camped near Indian Grave Gap near Helen. I noticed there was a big feed at Unicoi Gap, a big one at Indian Grave Gap and a big one at Tray Mountain Gap. Personally I felt this was a little much but who am I to say?

[HikerMom58]

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[Gray Blazer]

Max, the pics of me at my truck were after I walked out with everything. A lot of hikers showed up at Tellico Gap when I was getting ready to go. One thrubie kinda ticked me off. He asked for some cocoa mix and took half of what I had. To tell you the truth, I was a newbie on WB and I was kinda hoping to meet LW since he posted he would be walking. I had a piece of bread just for him. :D

[Gray Blazer]

What is a "big feed?", GB... I'm not familiar with them at all. Who does them?
One was the boy scouts at Unicoi Gap. Tray Mountain Gap had a church group and Indian Grave Gap was a church group. They all had trailers and tent pavilions set up with lots of cars and people.

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

This is not trail magic at all. At least not in it's traditional form.

pre-planned feeds at roads is not trail magic at all. there is no traditional trail magic.

[HikerMom58]

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[tawa]

When I was at Tray Mt Shelter a couple of yrs ago it looked like the city dump. Not kidding several trash bags full of cans, bottles and trash and no hikers around!

[Sarcasm the elf]

Oh, I'm not talking about trail feeds....I don't know anything about that. Again, it's hard to define trail magic. I really don't much about these trail feeds. I'm not interested in them, myself. I don't have an opinion about them. Totally neutral.

Hikermom, I think that this is the source of the disconnect.

Most of us who have voiced concerns on this thread are specifically talking about either preplanned hiker feeds (especially larger ones) and people leaving unattended coolers full of food in the woods. These are two of the most disruptive activities that are often considered "trail magic," also they are both against LNT principles. The unattended coolers in particular are notorious for contributing to litter on the trail and causing problems with the wildlife (I wish I had taken a picture of the trail side cooler I passed last year that had been left for several days and had been ransacked by animals, the food wrappers were everywhere!)

Other acts such as giving a hiker a ride into town, giving them a soda on a hot day, helping them get water during a drought and other small scale acts of kindness are closer to the real meaning of trail magic and I think we'd have a hard time finding anyone who has a problem with them.

[hikerboy57]

what once began as random acts of kindness has developed into preplanned feeds.
trail magic for me was this spring when i had just run out of fuel that morning with another day to resupply, came to a road crossing, and at a parking turnout.on top of a trash can sat a fuel can with just enough fuel for a couple of boils.
we've come to refer to food left in the woods, hiker feeds as trail magic, almost like some trademark term. nothing magical about it at all.

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

BINGO... I think you are on to something!! I didn't realize that's what you guys were talking about at all. It was all lumped together so I couldn't tell what was the issue really was... it makes sense now. :) I agree with you guys.. I also have learned a great deal on here about the TM that I do, sometimes. I really didn't stop and think about the fact that the hikers that participate in TM ,unattended, wouldn't pack out the trash part of what they took. I've really learned a lot of things! :) Helpful things!
you really need to stop using the term "trail magic". what you do for hikers is not that

[Del Q]

So, I am not going to pass judgement here...............what I experienced during my spring section hike this year on this great trail we ALL love, was more of a "human experience" than any other hike so far. Have hiked from Erwin to Franconia Notch thus far...........my hike from Damascus to Erwin was one of the most special experiences in my life as a 54 year old man

I heard about Nomad but did not meet him, sadly, what I shared with many of the NOBO's is that all of this nice trail magic was not going to continue up North.

Ate at the "Leapfrog Cafe", left a donation and moved on into Erwin.

Bob Peoples at Kinkora, slept in the tree house, $7 for two plates of pasta and steak & eggs for breakfast shared with the NOBO's.

Norovirus, now in PA, kind of freaky if you think about it, like 80% of the hikers I met had it or had already had it.

On this hike, met more thru hikers than I ever met on a 2 week hike - as I get further South this will expand

I had a GREAT time, came home sore & beat up, daily thoughts about my Fall section hike in NH and Maine

[HikerMom58]

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[HikerMom58]

So, I am not going to pass judgement here...............what I experienced during my spring section hike this year on this great trail we ALL love, was more of a "human experience" than any other hike so far. Have hiked from Erwin to Franconia Notch thus far...........my hike from Damascus to Erwin was one of the most special experiences in my life as a 54 year old man

I heard about Nomad but did not meet him, sadly, what I shared with many of the NOBO's is that all of this nice trail magic was not going to continue up North.

Ate at the "Leapfrog Cafe", left a donation and moved on into Erwin.

Bob Peoples at Kinkora, slept in the tree house, $7 for two plates of pasta and steak & eggs for breakfast shared with the NOBO's.

Norovirus, now in PA, kind of freaky if you think about it, like 80% of the hikers I met had it or had already had it.

On this hike, met more thru hikers than I ever met on a 2 week hike - as I get further South this will expand

I had a GREAT time, came home sore & beat up, daily thoughts about my Fall section hike in NH and Maine

Glad you had a great time Del Q, that's all that matters!

[Lone Wolf]

Ok... what would you call it then? Does it have a name at all? I don't really care if it does or not....

LW... what's wrong? Why are you being so ornery to everyone? It's not just me.....

i ain't ornery. just bein' straight forward and matter-of-fact. this is just the internet. don't be so sensitive. what you do is just kindness for other humans. i volunteer with a rescue squad for the same reason. it's not rescue magic

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

I don't like being told ...your (kindness) is stupid, not needed and unwanted and that's what I'm hearing from you a lot. .

NOWHERE in this thread or any other thread did i say that. enuf

[HikerMom58]

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[Lone Wolf]

You say it in so many words....
enuf already. good night

[MDSection12]

Hikermom, I think that this is the source of the disconnect.

Most of us who have voiced concerns on this thread are specifically talking about either preplanned hiker feeds (especially larger ones) and people leaving unattended coolers full of food in the woods. These are two of the most disruptive activities that are often considered "trail magic," also they are both against LNT principles. The unattended coolers in particular are notorious for contributing to litter on the trail and causing problems with the wildlife (I wish I had taken a picture of the trail side cooler I passed last year that had been left for several days and had been ransacked by animals, the food wrappers were everywhere!)

Other acts such as giving a hiker a ride into town, giving them a soda on a hot day, helping them get water during a drought and other small scale acts of kindness are closer to the real meaning of trail magic and I think we'd have a hard time finding anyone who has a problem with them.
Perfectly stated, thank you. :D

'Pack it in, pack it out' doesn't mean in a timely fashion to me, it means literally pack it in, pack it out... I think it's best we not complicate that concept. :)

[Mizirlou]

Trail magic has been hyped up so much that the term has created a breed of expectant hikers. An example is a recent TJ entry by a hiker who’d received a gluttony of trail magic and now wished for a ride to a hostel, rather than continuing his planned mileage to the next shelter. At a road crossing, he found “just one guy looking for the warrior hikers and he did not want to help.” It struck me as a selfish expectation and a pouty reaction. An unintended consequence of "trail magic" -- hype it and they will come.

[Pedaling Fool]

I guess those of us that want to hike without all the in-your-face amenities of society are part of a minority. You really get a sense of that on these threads concerning trail feeds. Personally, I think it’s bad enough that there has been so much build up around the trail to the point that the 100-mile wilderness is no longer. But at least you can easily walk by those places without notice, giving the so-called illusion of wilderness.

Not so easy when there is a gaggle of hikers sitting around in a party-like environment and this doesn’t just happen at road crossings, I’ve seen them at shelters and gaps and other places along the trail. Even a cooler can have a negative effect on my hike, especially when I know it’s only a matter of time before I see the next one.

This is the point when someone usually says: “If you want seclusion, go out west” As if it has to be that way because we’re on the east coast. Like I said, for the most part I don’t see the towns, because I’m the type of hiker that doesn’t resupply every 3 days. If it were not for trail feeds and coolers it would be pretty easy to be society-free (go ahead and call it an illusion if you want) but that would be the experience.

But since this is the view point of the minority, we’re told to go some other place or do your AT hike in a certain way. What can I say to that; I’m a minority, I get it. It’s sad.

What’s funny though, is everyone says that the AT is no longer wild, yet they seem to think that coolers are NEEDED:confused:

And we need to change out the plaque on Springer Mountain which describes the AT as: “A footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness.”

Maybe just put a period after “fellowship”.

[susiecruise]

This is an emotional topic but I think it is important. Thanks HM and LW for your endurance. I am understanding both sides of what I guess could be viewed as a disagreement. It seems that for many ( and one day for most) the AT experience is changing.

[rocketsocks]

I too see both sides of this Argument and it seems to be one of those times when all are just gonna have to agree to disagree.....it'll come up again, but until then...happy hiking, it's all we can do!:)

[Del Q]

As I said to the NOBO's in mid April...........don't expect much trail magic up North

I experienced more than in the last 7 years as a Section Hiker

OK, shoot me, the people in the South are much nicer...........including Lone Wolf

We should gain commentary from the NOBO crowd from where they are now.

[rocketsocks]

There used to be a guy in New York that would put a table and chair with a pitcher of lemonade and little paper cups on the trail. Ok, there was a note there with an invitation to follow the side trail to his place for other stuff, but the point is, the pitcher would last all day and hikers would be satified with one or two small cups of lemonade and leave the rest for the hikers that followed. For some reason I'm not sure that would work today. To me, that was magic on a hot day and water supply being what it is on that section of trail. Magic from the guy and magic from other hikers who cared about the hikers that followed.Pretty sure you need a permit to peddle lemon aid these days....shame!...maybe they threw him in the pokey.

[Lemni Skate]

I spent the last two days getting trees out of people's yards who had them fall in the storms on Thursday. Does that buy me two days of getting to give hikers shoe strings and a gatorade?

[Lone Wolf]

hikers don't need either

[Trillium]

hikers don't need eitherhttp://24.media.tumblr.com/7c8e2612bfd8b7f4af13432854ec34fb/tumblr_mnxaf9DphK1qzniqdo1_500.jpg

[Lone Wolf]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7c8e2612bfd8b7f4af13432854ec34fb/tumblr_mnxaf9DphK1qzniqdo1_500.jpg

i'm young and have never yelled at a cloud. explain

[Colter]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7c8e2612bfd8b7f4af13432854ec34fb/tumblr_mnxaf9DphK1qzniqdo1_500.jpg

Perfect. :) Lemni Skate, I guarantee that the overwhelming majority of hikers will welcome carefully considered trail angel activities.

[Lemni Skate]

I don't think I said they need either. I want to do it.

My cross country kids don't need freeze pops after their long practices in August, either, but they all seem to appreciate them when I bring them and they never turn them down. I do it because it makes me feel good.

My neighbor didn't need that giant tree removed from her back yard. It wasn't lying on anything, but she actually tried to pay me for cutting it up and hauling it away. I did it because it made me feel good.

People wouldn't feed hikers unless those people are getting something out of the experience, too.

Look at it from my point of view. I WANT to do it, and think I will enjoy it.

I promise if I see you on the trail I want chase you down with a soda or tie you up and make you eat a Snickers bar.

I probably ought to stop doing trail work, too, since the hikers don't really NEED a trail. We could just bushwhack from Georgia to Maine. The poison ivy and briars won't get bad up here in SNP for at least two months and no one needs to not be scratched up and broken out. I'm letting my PATC membership expire in October in your honor.

[Lemni Skate]

Sorry about the bad grammar and spelling. What I was trying to say is that people miss the point that doing "trail magic" is fun for the person doing the trail magic. I helped Blissful feed some hikers one day and gave a couple of hikers rides that day. She was very respectful of LNT and I had a great time listening to their stories, and they seemed to have a great time eating the sausages I brought. The time in the truck with the hikers was cool as the conversation was even more fun. Several hikers walked by without partaking. All they had to endure was a person or two saying, "Would you like some food?" They politely said no thanks and kept moving. Most of the people passing on the food seemed to be day hikers without packs.

I was at the trail days festival in Nelson a couple of weeks ago. Sat down with a group of hikers while we were waiting for a band to start playing. All much younger than me (as a teacher, that was no problem, I can talk to kids). I introduced them to my kids, offered to buy beers for a couple who I had heard say they couldn't afford beer (they declined), and I wished them well. Fun 20 minutes for ME. In neither case was I under the delusion that I was saving any of these people's lives or even particularly making their trip better. I was just spending a little time talking to people that I thought were interesting. I couldn't even tell you the real or trail names of any of the people I've done anything for over the year (except for Spruce), but I enjoyed talking to them.

[Malto]

I did it because it made me feel good.

People wouldn't feed hikers unless those people are getting something out of the experience, too.

Look at it from my point of view. I WANT to do it, and think I will enjoy it.


Another thru hiker and had a conversation about whether there is in fact such a thing as a selfless act. My contention is that there wasn't. In the end the actor is always getting something out of the act. It started in reference to a couple of very famous "trail angels" In many cases I could clearly see the path to the gain, they were somebody that people talked about. So I personally agree 100% with what you wrote.

As it pertains to this thread. Bottom line, some like the feeds, some don't. Nothing that you will say will change that fact. People, you, will choose to do it or not. And people, like me, who are against expanding intrusions onto the trail will have a choice. Deal with it or hike another trail, or section on the AT. So on the topic we don't agree, nor is it required.

[rickb]

I guess those of us that want to hike without all the in-your-face amenities of society are part of a minority. You really get a sense of that on these threads concerning trail feeds. Personally, I think it’s bad enough that there has been so much build up around the trail to the point that the 100-mile wilderness is no longer. But at least you can easily walk by those places without notice, giving the so-called illusion of wilderness.

Not so easy when there is a gaggle of hikers sitting around in a party-like environment and this doesn’t just happen at road crossings, I’ve seen them at shelters and gaps and other places along the trail. Even a cooler can have a negative effect on my hike, especially when I know it’s only a matter of time before I see the next one.

This is the point when someone usually says: “If you want seclusion, go out west” As if it has to be that way because we’re on the east coast. Like I said, for the most part I don’t see the towns, because I’m the type of hiker that doesn’t resupply every 3 days. If it were not for trail feeds and coolers it would be pretty easy to be society-free (go ahead and call it an illusion if you want) but that would be the experience.

But since this is the view point of the minority, we’re told to go some other place or do your AT hike in a certain way. What can I say to that; I’m a minority, I get it. It’s sad.

What’s funny though, is everyone says that the AT is no longer wild, yet they seem to think that coolers are NEEDED:confused:

And we need to change out the plaque on Springer Mountain which describes the AT as: “A footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness.”

Maybe just put a period after “fellowship”.

Question for Pedaling Fool:

Did you used to post under a different name? If not, I am going to have to reopen a thread about the perils of eating out of aluminum pots.

[Pedaling Fool]

Question for Pedaling Fool:

Did you used to post under a different name? If not, I am going to have to reopen a thread about the perils of eating out of aluminum pots.Yes, I did. Got sick of people asking, despite me spelling with a "U": Who's John Galt?

[Sarcasm the elf]

Yes, I did. Got sick of people asking, despite me spelling with a "U": Who's John Galt?

Sorry about that, my bad...

[Pedaling Fool]

Sorry about that, my bad...Geez, don't tell me that the master of sarcasm is one of those sensitive types :D

[Kookork]

I came up with this year about ten years ago and I can't seem to let it go. I considered being a mobile trail angel one season. The thought was to "thru-drive" the Appalachian Trail. Here's the idea. Get a mobile home (of some sort) and follow the thru hikers north one year. Maybe start at Amicalola Falls around Feb. 1 and just meander up to Baxter and try and end up there by October. I'd just stop at places where I was likely to see a lot of thru hikers...road crossings, trail towns, etc. and I'd try to be a help to hikers. I'd try to have things they might need, like shoe strings, bandanas, trail money, etc. I'd also try to stay stocked with beverages and food I could share if somebody came by at just about any time. I'm not talking luxury...I'm talking gatorade mix and hotdogs and cheap chips most of the time, though if somebody caught me when I was grillin' a steak or boiling some spegs I'd share. I'd also be available for rides into town. I really imagine not having the actual motor home at the trail heads that often, but parking that at a campground and sitting at trailheads with a pickup truck, a cooler and a grill.

I'd be moving a lot slower than the thru-hikers so I'd probably only encounter a few of them more than once or twice, but that would kind of be the point. I imagine taking pictures of all of them and getting a story or two and writing it down and maybe self-publishing a book about everybody I met out there.

I think it would be an interesting way for my wife and I to spend 8 months, and it seems like I'll be able to afford it (unless I get to generous and serve up lobster to every hiker to offer everyone a brand new sleeping bag), we're looking pretty good financially for retirement.

The other great thing, is I imagine there'd be a lot of good day hikes in this for us, too.

Any thoughts...problems you'd anticipate...helpful suggestions for someone doing this.

I think if you can purchase an old Singer sewing machine that was made before electricity was a common commodity( works with the muscle power) and carry it in your car it would be very useful for hikers. It is not uncommon for hikers to need a sewing machine to repair their wear and tear in their gear( including where backpack straps connects to their backpack) and small tears in their pants and things like that. I imagine a sewing machine is something that is not accessible in many trails and can help hikers who need it.

I wish you a pleasant experience along the way and hope to see you in my 2014 AT thru.