View Full Version : external vs internal
diogenes
07-21-2005, 12:16
sorry im kind of new to backpacking. why are internal frame packs so much more popular than external frames? in all the pictures not one person seems to have an external pack. are they really that bad? :confused:
SGT Rock
07-21-2005, 12:23
It is a matter of preference. External frame packs provide better ventilation and are often cheaper and many times are lighter than the equivalent internal frame pack.
But, internal frame packs seem to carry better and are often more comfortable for people. So much, that the benefits of an external don't seem to compare.
The best solution IMO is to get light enough to go with a pack that has neither and has a good enough suspension system to make it comfortable for your load.
well i have used and external for five yrs and like them but i guess most people like the new style of the internals ,i dont know why just a choice and extenal packs are not really a bad choice in my opinion:dance ky
Footslogger
07-21-2005, 12:29
In addition to the points already made ...externals tend to be a little wider and shorter than internals. They have more outside pockets. On well worn trails with good clearance that is not an issue. Internals are narrower and taller, which is a big advantage on mountain trails where you are sliding between large rocks or walking along the edge of a sheer drop off.
I've used (and still own) both but I prefer the internal style for all my backpacking these days.
'Slogger
AT 2003
diogenes
07-21-2005, 13:54
thank you very much
max patch
07-21-2005, 13:55
I prefer an external...especially when hiking on a well groomed trail like the AT...but I will readily admit that I am in the distinct minority in the external/internal debate.
Spirit Walker
07-21-2005, 15:31
My first AT hike I used an external; on my second I used an internal. I never went back to the external. Every pack I've had since then has been internal. The internal s are more comfortable, quieter (externals squeak - a lot), and I have more room to swing my arms. On the rock climbing in New England, the closer fit of the internal was a real help. For bushwhacking or trails with a lot of blowdowns or when snowshoeing having the closer fit can be really helpful.
Rock's post is pretty much right on.
One thing that I would add is that currently there are very few external frame packs on the market. Kelty is about the last of them.
I suspect that the general public has been sold on internals as being better, much the same rational that so many people buy SUV's when they never go off road.
neither,no frame please:cool: neo
justusryans
07-21-2005, 19:30
Well, I guess I'm in the minority. Due to the medication I take, overheating can be a very big issue with me. The more ventilation I have the better I feel and the better I feel the more I can hike. I like internals but simply can't use them except maybe in winter. That being said, I LIKE external frame packs. It's like that first car or your first :jump, I bet you can remember everything about it. My external is 15 years old but works fine, carries everything I want to carry, weighs 4 pounds and is comfortable. Are there better packs out there? sure, but if it ain't broke don't fix it. It ain't broke!
Just Jeff
07-21-2005, 23:35
It's like that first car or your first :jump, I bet you can remember everything about it.
I just wish there were more to remember. :eek:
Right now I have a frameless pack that's good to ~30lbs (GoLite Speed). I've had more than that and it's ok, but the discomfort comes from too little padding in the straps rather than lack of support.
If you can get comfy without one, a frame seems like useless weight...not multi-use. Now if you could use your tentpoles as the frame, it might be worth considering...
Slim aka Nancy
07-22-2005, 00:12
When I started backpacking 18 years ago I used an external frame pack. Most of people in the groups I take on hikes still carry external frame packs.
What is nice about extenal is:
#1 More pockets for organizing stuff.
#2 Easily stands up on is own.
#3 Ventilation from mesh backing. Less perspiration/body odor transferred to the pack.
#4 Weight distribution is 90% on the hips; 10% shoulder straps (stabilization).
#5 Able to easily carry loads of 60+ pounds.
#6 Fully adjustable in the shoulder straps and hipbelt.
#7 Top storm flap for tucking in huge sleeping mat or bag.
#8 Pack itself doesn't get wet from perspiration, usually just the mesh backing.
#9 The Aluminum frame makes a good defensive weapon.
Negative: Ridigitity, weight. Its hard for two people to hug with external packs on. One will always knock the other on the head.
p.s. With External frame packs the heaviest items go on top.
__________________________________________________ _________
What's nice about Internal Frame or frameless packs is:
#1 The pack and your body move as one. More flexible, especially for bending over, and climbing.
#2 Pack weight is equally distributed on hips and shoulders
#3 Keeps your body warmer in winter or summer because its right against your back.
#4 Usually lighter in weight.
#5 Load lifters at shoulders are cool
#6 After awhile the pack conforms itself to your body.
#7 Lightweight, Ultralight packs for today's hiker who is weight conscious.
Negative: Not usually adjustable for back length or shoulder width.
Over time perspiration absorption gets pretty bad on the back pad and...
sometimes this wetness and odor can permeate the whole pack.
p.s With internal frame packs the heaviest items go in middle.
Slim aka Nancy AT GAME 88-98
gardenville
07-22-2005, 00:23
I use an external frame but make my own. The average weight of one of my frames is 9oz (frame only). I could use the carbon fiber tubes (3 at 23" for tent poles but I use a hammock. The last pack bag I made weighed 2.10oz and was 6.5" deep by 12" wide by 23.5" tall with a roll down top that is 10"tall before you roll it closed. My pack bag has 2 full size side mesh pockets and a full front mesh pocket that add some extra to the total cu inches. There are some pictures here in my photo gallery of one of my earlier External Frames w/Pack Bag on it. They are not hard to make and if you do it yourself you can make the frame wide or narrow to fit the type of trail or no trail you hike on. I make most of mine 12.5" wide.
I was raised on external frames and still like my Jansport D3 best. I've tried internal frames and haven't really noticed a difference in comfort. For me, the additional pockets on the D3 make it worthwhile, but I do wish it had a hydration system.
gardenville
07-22-2005, 12:32
I was raised on external frames and still like my Jansport D3 best. I've tried internal frames and haven't really noticed a difference in comfort. For me, the additional pockets on the D3 make it worthwhile, but I do wish it had a hydration system.
My latest Ultra Light External Frame uses a feature from the old, I think 30 years or so, Jansport M3. I was even able to talk to Skip Yowell a few weeks ago at Jansport about that old model. I was told that Jansport has a big anniversary coming up in a year or so and will bring out a few special packs as part of it. I think the "Wing Things" have a place on some of todays packs and hope I see a modern version of them on the anniversary specials. You can see my version here:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/1259
SGT Rock
07-22-2005, 12:38
If you are looking for an ultralight frame pack you don't have to build yourself, the LuxuryLite pack is a good choice, but expensive if you go for the carbon fiber version. The aluminum and pack cloth version is cheaper and doesn't weigh much more, and the frame is very adjustable; I'm playing with one now. I would say the jury is still out on the pack for my evaluation, but I bet there are some LuxuryLite owners here on the board that would recommend them.
dougmeredith
07-22-2005, 12:43
Rock,
If my memory is correct, you previously declined an opportunity to try this pack, because you were happy with the Gear Skin. What changed your mind?
Doug
SGT Rock
07-22-2005, 12:50
Rock,
If my memory is correct, you previously declined an opportunity to try this pack, because you were happy with the Gear Skin. What changed your mind?
Doug
Negative, that was not the story. I wanted to try this pack for review but didn't plan to switch from the Gearskin to a frame pack because of how well the Gearskin worked for my packing style and camping style. I wanted to test one, and Bruce had offered to send me one last year after trail days as a loaner to test. Well I got tied up in moving from Louisiana to TN and plum forgot about it. This year I ran into Bruce again at Trail Days and he loaned me one on the spot. So now I have one to play with. The one I have is the aluminum version with pack cloth bags, and I switched to all small sized bags because I don't carry enough to take one of his standard set ups. I also did not take a front load pack, but many of his loyal users swear by them and say this is a mistake.
One other useful feature of i-frames are that they travel better and store smaller. Rigid frames can get bent in shipping or during baggage handling.
Doug Frost