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SGT Rock
06-23-2013, 11:22
An interesting article.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/23/counting-the-costs-of-search-and-rescue-missions/ (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/23/counting-the-costs-of-search-and-rescue-missions/)

TIDE-HSV
06-23-2013, 14:07
Interesting article. In Europe, you get rescued, you get a bill - a big one, particularly in the Alps in Switzerland and Austria. When I was going over to hike, I always bought the inexpensive insurance, just in case...

rickb
06-23-2013, 15:16
Interesting that 1/3 of SARs in NPs are in GSNP.

I wouldn't have guessed that.

Here is a link showing which EU countries bill and which act more like the USA.

http://www.eccbelgie.be/images/downloads/03%20-%20Costs%20rescue%20operations%20in%20Europe.pdf

Rasty
06-23-2013, 15:25
I noticed that some are rescued from ending up in the wrong parking lot after climbing Leconte. I thought that was a little funny. Overall $100 to $250k for rescues in a park this size isn't horrible.

rickb
06-23-2013, 15:36
Just reread the article. Looks like GSNP accounts for 1/3of the SARs in the parks of the southeast region only. That make sense.

rocketsocks
06-23-2013, 17:45
Do they (GSMNP) put out an annual report on rescues like the AMC in the white mountains? Good article Sgt. Rock, thanks for posting.

da fungo
06-23-2013, 17:51
I hope someone more knowledgeable than I will jump in with details:

I believe that in Colorado, they sell what amounts to an annual "get out of the wilderness free", search and rescue card. If you need rescue and have the card, it's free. If you don't have it, you pay.

TIDE-HSV
06-23-2013, 19:23
I hope someone more knowledgeable than I will jump in with details:

I believe that in Colorado, they sell what amounts to an annual "get out of the wilderness free", search and rescue card. If you need rescue and have the card, it's free. If you don't have it, you pay.This is true. We owned a condo in Vail for 10 years and we bought the card, even though we did no OOB skiing...

TIDE-HSV
06-23-2013, 19:33
I noticed that some are rescued from ending up in the wrong parking lot after climbing Leconte. I thought that was a little funny. Overall $100 to $250k for rescues in a park this size isn't horrible.
I have to relate one tale about LeConte. I had taken my daughter and a friend up and we were waiting on the steps outside the lodge for the dinner bell. I forget what time of year it was, but it was getting dark. I glanced up at the trail that runs the length of the mountain and passes behind the lodge and there were a group of guys who appeared to be discussing something. Finally, one of them came down and asked "Where's the parking lot?" I'm sure my jaw dropped. They had thought they had arrived at Newfound Gap, where their wives had shuttled their cars. They had come up Alum Cave. Of course, hiking out the Boulevard was unthinkable that late, with no lights and no experience. I tried to explain how the trails, mountain and parking lots fit together and advised them that their best bet was to go back down Alum Cave and hitchhike up to Newfound Gap. I'm sure they had some very worried wives before they got back to them...

SGT Rock
06-23-2013, 20:13
"Where's the parking lot?"Classic! :cool:

Grits
06-23-2013, 20:24
Classic! :cool:
That is classic. Many years ago a teenager got separated from a his group while hiking on the Boulevard Trail and went down in a drainage. SAR was dispatched and eventually found him and it did not end well. That incident is still used in training SAR personal in Search Management.

Swordpen
06-23-2013, 21:08
Interesting article. In Europe, you get rescued, you get a bill - a big one, particularly in the Alps in Switzerland and Austria. When I was going over to hike, I always bought the inexpensive insurance, just in case...


Is there such insurance for hiking the Appalachian Trail? Never heard of this (but prolly a good idea for us older than 40), I guess).

TIDE-HSV
06-23-2013, 21:19
Is there such insurance for hiking the Appalachian Trail? Never heard of this (but prolly a good idea for us older than 40), I guess).I really don't know. I just never thought about needing it in this country and probably wouldn't have thought about it over there, except that it was mentioned over and over. The Swiss are very good businessmen - They charge a reasonable rate for everything on earth you can think of...

TIDE-HSV
06-23-2013, 21:22
That is classic. Many years ago a teenager got separated from a his group while hiking on the Boulevard Trail and went down in a drainage. SAR was dispatched and eventually found him and it did not end well. That incident is still used in training SAR personal in Search Management.
Despite the fact that it would have ended up at Newfound Gap, it's a lot longer and 3' wide at points, even had they managed not to get lost. I couldn't think of sending them out that way. I figured getting them back down to the road via Alum Cave + hitchhiking would get them to the Gap quicker...

HooKooDooKu
06-25-2013, 15:07
Many years ago a teenager got separated from a his group while hiking on the Boulevard Trail and went down in a drainage...
If I'm remembering correctly, that sounds like the story of the boy scout from the 70's that told in the GSMNP Trail Guide.

The story I always keep in mind when hiking with my kids is the one about the boy hiking with his family in the 90's. Again, if I'm remembering correctly, this tweenager was hiking up ahead of his family on a trail. While he was out-of-sight, he fell down the side of a hill. Apparently, the fall must have knocked him out initially and the family hike by him not realizing he had fallen. When they finally realized he was missing, they had no idea where along the trail he had gone missing. Again, the story didn't end well.

I use this tale to illustrate to my sons the importance of the buddy system and why they must stay within eye-site when we go hiking.

Ox97GaMe
06-25-2013, 18:07
An attempt to answer some of the questions posted on this thread......

a) Do they (GSMNP) put out an annual report on rescues....... The GSMNP gets over 14 million visitors annually. They average around 1100 SAR cases annually. Most of these are relatively minor and occur within 2 miles of the front country location (campground, trailhead, tourist attractions). They range from lost children, sprained ankles, or dehydrated day hikers. they have about 20-25 annually that involve extracting someone from the park with major medical issues. There is a report, but I dont know if it is publicly available.

b) believe that in Colorado, they sell what amounts to an annual "get out of the wilderness free", search and rescue card. If you need rescue and have the card, it's free. If you don't have it, you pay....... This is true. I bought this insurance several times when I was doing a lot of hiking in Colorado. It covered hiking, skiing, rock climbing, and snowmobiling (probably others too). The last time I paid for one, it was $5 and lasted for 3 years. Pretty good deal as far as insurance goes. Not sure if that is still the going price/duration.

c) Is there such insurance for hiking the Appalachian Trail? I am not aware any kind of insurance for any of the hiking trails in the US. I have heard several International hikers talk about a form of international insurance that they had gotten that would cover some types of SAR costs. One couple that I met from Australia had this type of insurance. It covered their medical bills (broken arm) and would have covered any travel related expenses incurred as a result of an injury while they were in the US. (rebooking fees, reservation cancellation fees, extra travel costs (bus, plane, rental car),etc)

rocketsocks
06-25-2013, 18:30
An attempt to answer some of the questions posted on this thread......

a) Do they (GSMNP) put out an annual report on rescues....... The GSMNP gets over 14 million visitors annually. They average around 1100 SAR cases annually. Most of these are relatively minor and occur within 2 miles of the front country location (campground, trailhead, tourist attractions). They range from lost children, sprained ankles, or dehydrated day hikers. they have about 20-25 annually that involve extracting someone from the park with major medical issues. There is a report, but I dont know if it is publicly available.

Thanks Ox97GaMe appreciate it.

ATL Backpacker
06-26-2013, 20:59
This is a good book on Smokies SAR missions over the years. Very good read if you're interested in this type of stuff. Some endings were good, others bad.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Rangers-Journal-Search-Rescue/dp/0964173417

rocketsocks
06-26-2013, 21:43
This is a good book on Smokies SAR missions over the years. Very good read if you're interested in this type of stuff. Some endings were good, others bad.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Rangers-Journal-Search-Rescue/dp/0964173417cool..."wishlist"...got some pretty good reviews there, thanks ATL

I've read "Not Without Peril" another great book on accidents and rescues in the White Mountains...for those that haven't heard of this.

http://www.amazon.com/Not-Without-Peril-Tenth-Anniversary/dp/1934028320/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372297311&sr=1-1&keywords=not+without+peril

Ktaadn
06-27-2013, 14:44
An interesting article.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/23/counting-the-costs-of-search-and-rescue-missions/ (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/23/counting-the-costs-of-search-and-rescue-missions/)

Does anyone know how the "costs of SAR missions" is calculated? Say a SAR costs $1,200. Is that 10 rangers making $40/hr and searching for 3 hours each? Aren't these rangers salaried and getting paid whether or not that are on a SAR or just driving around in a truck "on patrol"? Seems to me that these "costs" are misleadingly being reported as some sort of additional expense. I could see the potential for OT and possible extra fuel costs but not much other than that.

Ox97GaMe
06-27-2013, 23:03
Major SAR is not done entirely by park rangers in ANY National Park. When a major SAR event occurs, resources are brought in from surrounding cities, counties, and/or states. In some cases helicopters and/or cadaver dogs need to be brought in. SAR requires specialized skills that not all rangers have acquired. All of these additional resources is what drives up cost of such operations.

Resource needs are different depending on the terrain, the weather, the nature of the incident, etc. Not every SAR is equal. Locating a lost child at a picnic area is considerably simplier and less costly than rescuing a climber from a glacier field or a high mountain peak.