View Full Version : Smokies issues high water alert for Fourth of July week
SGT Rock
07-01-2013, 23:53
A warning for those visiting this week:
With potentially heavy rainfall forecast throughout this week, Great Smoky Mountains National Park rangers are advising visitors to be extremely cautious near area rivers.The warning, issued Monday, comes after several river rescues within the past month, most involving visitors floating on inner tubes.
The most recent incident occurred Friday, when a group of six tubers, including four adults, a 6-year-old and a 2-year-old child, had to be rescued after they became stranded on the opposite side of the Little River by rising waters. The Townsend Volunteer Fire Department’s swift water rescue team, assisted by park rangers, brought the group back across the river, which was about a foot above normal due to heavy rains, according to the National Park Service.
“With the forecast of rain throughout the week, I encourage all visitors to be extremely cautious around rivers as conditions can change unpredictably,” said the park’s acting Chief Ranger Steve Kloster.
A chance of storms is forecast for each day this week. Thursday, July 4, has an 80 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms throughout the day and into the evening, with possibly heavy rainfall, according to the National Weather Service.
Rangers also noted several incidents involving park visitors who attempted to cross swollen rivers and became stranded on boulders in the river channel or on the opposite bank. When thunderstorms strike, rangers said, visitors should be ready to alter their routes or wait until river levels have receded.
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ATL Backpacker
07-02-2013, 12:26
Thanks Sgt Rock. With the heavy crowds and the heavy rain I think river/creek rescues will be a matter of when and how many, not if. Maybe it's just me but the Smokies seem to attract novice backpackers and hikers, many of whom will attempt crossings that shouldn't be attempted.
Some of this could be avoided if NPS would build a few more footlog bridges. Abram's Creek crossing from the Little Bottoms trail in particular is a challenge even in normal conditions. Drives me crazy they will repave miles of road in the park but won't put in a bridge there.
Thx. Just looked at the weather for Tellico Plains and the BMT and YET AGAIN I notice HEAVY rain. What else is new? It's rained on me 17 of the last 20 days. It seems every time I go into town and dry my gear and me within 24 hrs I'm wet AGAIN. Maybe the current BMT weather is preparing me for PNT weather. I'm been so spoiled by the PCT weather.
FarmerChef
07-02-2013, 13:53
Thx. Just looked at the weather for Tellico Plains and the BMT and YET AGAIN I notice HEAVY rain. What else is new? It's rained on me 17 of the last 20 days. It seems every time I go into town and dry my gear and me within 24 hrs I'm wet AGAIN. Maybe the current BMT weather is preparing me for PNT weather. I'm been so spoiled by the PCT weather.
I can't wait to be spoiled by the PCT weather ;)
Stay safe down in the Smokies everyone (preaching to the choir here, I know). I still remember staying at John's Spring Shelter south of McAfee knob and the number of dangerously ill-equipped kids dressed like they were going to the mall (or not dressed if you know what I mean) fumbling around in the dark without flashlights. Combine that "I'm indestructible" mentality with ignorance and high water and I agree there will be a lot more rescues to come.
Some of this could be avoided if NPS would build a few more footlog bridges. Abram's Creek crossing from the Little Bottoms trail in particular is a challenge even in normal conditions. Drives me crazy they will repave miles of road in the park but won't put in a bridge there.
i think if they put a bridge at that crossing, it would keep getting washed away..........
sorta like the one further downstream near rabbit creek trail...............
SGT Rock
07-02-2013, 16:29
I'm been so spoiled by the PCT weather.
I can't wait to be spoiled by the PCT weather ;)
Me either. Maybe the JMT in a year or two.
Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk 2
HooKooDooKu
07-02-2013, 17:48
...Drives me crazy they will repave miles of road in the park but won't put in a bridge there.
There's a lot of trail out there in need of maintenance. But the money goes where the people go.
As an example, I recently took two days to hiked the Forney Creek/Jonas Creek/Welch Ridge/AT Loop:
I. The trails are in need of repair:
Some of the upper sections of Forney Creek are so thin, slanted, and crumbling, that hikers are in danger of falling off the trail (my son and I have each slipped off the trail at least once in this section). Some of the existing bridges across tributaries are in need of repair/replace. Bridges across Forney creek (especially during high water) would make crossing much safer. Parts of the trail along Welch Ridge are so over-grown, the only sign of a trail is a thinning of the tall grass where it covers the trail.
II. We hardly saw anyone the whole trip:
3 people at the falls near campsite 68,
2 day-hikers about a mile before campsite 70,
3 people who shared campsite 70 with us.
III. Lots of people at Clingman's Dome:
We took the by-pass trail between the AT and the Parking Lot, yet during that 1/2 mile, we passed about 20 people. When we got to the parking lot, every space except two at the very end of the parking lot was taken.
So rather than making repairs to make Forney Creek "safe" for a few hikers, they are installing stair cases along the Chimney Tops trail, because that's where the crowds go.
gollwoods
07-02-2013, 18:56
it is a bit hard to get around those creeks but the remoteness is nice
HooKooDooKu
07-03-2013, 19:54
I've got a permit for a camping trip this weekend and got the call from GSMNP warning about expected high creek levels. Talked to a rager that said he had been up to Clingman's Dome today and it was like a monsoon up there.
Since my plans included some trails with unbridged stream crossing, and I've got a 7yo with me, plus the fact it looks like its going to be raining through the weekend, I decided to see if things will be better if I hold out until next week.
wow a difference. I am 3.5 hrs from the Smokies and not a drop of rain. We need some rain badly
dang..should be "wow what a difference"
ATL Backpacker
07-03-2013, 21:55
I've got a permit for a camping trip this weekend and got the call from GSMNP warning about expected high creek levels. Talked to a rager that said he had been up to Clingman's Dome today and it was like a monsoon up there.
Since my plans included some trails with unbridged stream crossing, and I've got a 7yo with me, plus the fact it looks like its going to be raining through the weekend, I decided to see if things will be better if I hold out until next week.
Sorry your trip is going to be postponed. But likely a very good decision! I'm I just SW of the park abt 30 miles and its been a real soaker today with additional rain called for thurs and Friday. Those stream creeks and rivers will be raging.
Impressed/surprised that the ranger called you with the warning. Glad to hear NPS is actually offering some customer service in exchange for the new fee.
gollwoods
07-04-2013, 07:06
we had a trip down eagle creek but canceled a couple days ago, actually had palnned on site 96 the island in eagle creek. LOL. probably would have been a foot under water
illabelle
07-04-2013, 08:10
wow a difference. I am 3.5 hrs from the Smokies and not a drop of rain. We need some rain badly
bring some buckets and we'll fill 'em up
remembering a song we sang as children, over and over again, sitting on the porch swing:
rain rain go away
don't come back till another day
we finally got our rain today..a slow rain which beats a downpour any day
HooKooDooKu
07-04-2013, 23:55
Impressed/surprised that the ranger called you with the warning. Glad to hear NPS is actually offering some customer service in exchange for the new fee.
I get the impression that they've done the same thing in the past... however, in the past, they only knew about plans for people who had made reservations at the rationed camp sites. Now, every camp site you stay at they have to know about it ahead of time.
In this case, I believe I got a call because I had a reservation for #92, which is specifically listed on the trail map's list of stream crossings that might be difficult during floods.
TIDE-HSV
07-05-2013, 01:24
There's a lot of trail out there in need of maintenance. But the money goes where the people go.
As an example, I recently took two days to hiked the Forney Creek/Jonas Creek/Welch Ridge/AT Loop:
I. The trails are in need of repair:
Some of the upper sections of Forney Creek are so thin, slanted, and crumbling, that hikers are in danger of falling off the trail (my son and I have each slipped off the trail at least once in this section). Some of the existing bridges across tributaries are in need of repair/replace. Bridges across Forney creek (especially during high water) would make crossing much safer. Parts of the trail along Welch Ridge are so over-grown, the only sign of a trail is a thinning of the tall grass where it covers the trail.
II. We hardly saw anyone the whole trip:
3 people at the falls near campsite 68,
2 day-hikers about a mile before campsite 70,
3 people who shared campsite 70 with us.
III. Lots of people at Clingman's Dome:
We took the by-pass trail between the AT and the Parking Lot, yet during that 1/2 mile, we passed about 20 people. When we got to the parking lot, every space except two at the very end of the parking lot was taken.
So rather than making repairs to make Forney Creek "safe" for a few hikers, they are installing stair cases along the Chimney Tops trail, because that's where the crowds go.
I've hiked both Welch Ridge and also Forney from Clingman's Dome down to Bee Branch trail, over Noland Divide and down Deep Creek to the campground. I hate to hear the shape they're in. Back when I hiked Forney, there were no bridges over the tributaries. Each one was a ford. Seventeen, IIRC...
I got two calls from the backcountry office this week discouraging me. Triggered by my plans to camp at #70 Jonas Creek and #64 Mill Creek.
I get the impression that they've done the same thing in the past... however, in the past, they only knew about plans for people who had made reservations at the rationed camp sites. Now, every camp site you stay at they have to know about it ahead of time.
In this case, I believe I got a call because I had a reservation for #92, which is specifically listed on the trail map's list of stream crossings that might be difficult during floods.
I get a laugh about hikers describing how dangerous the fords are in GSMNP even after heavy rains.
I get the impression that they've done the same thing in the past... however, in the past, they only knew about plans for people who had made reservations at the rationed camp sites. .
they have done this in the past before.........and as you stated with the old reservation system, they already had the info....
the NPS has also crossed referenced license plate tags and called to make sure people have gotten out OK after storm events.....
i know they did this a few years ago when heavy winds hit and killed a lady near the chimney tops trail......
ATL Backpacker
07-05-2013, 15:13
I get a laugh about hikers describing how dangerous the fords are in GSMNP even after heavy rains.
What, are the fords in the park not as dangerous as those outside? Not following your statement.
Personally, I think fording the Kennebec River on the AT is more dangerous as well as those on the CDT in MT in Glacier NP as well as some of them on the Gila River in NM and on the JMT. Chest deep, COLD(often near freezing temp), VERY WIDE, high volume fast moving(and deep) are all more dangerous than the ones I've seen AFTER heavy rain in GSMNP. Of course, in their own right some of the fords in GSMNP under certain conditions can be hazardous too. Just sayin when comparing those fords in those other places IMHO the ones in the Smokys(if you don't fall on slippery rocks) aren't as dangerous.
HooKooDooKu
07-05-2013, 18:22
I get a laugh about hikers describing how dangerous the fords are in GSMNP even after heavy rains.
Try crossing Forney Creek with a 10yo when water levels are high. That's what I was doing two weeks ago (before these heavy rains fell) and it was a serious challenge making absolutely sure we both could make it safely across (just by myself would have been much easier).
But I must admit I wonder just how high the water can get around campsite #92. I've rock-hopped the creeks around 20 mile area during "normal" to "low" flows. So I'm really curious how difficult they can become. Then again, from what I understand, the name "Long Hungry Ridge" got its name from some people being stranded on the otherside of a swollen creek.
Nothing funny about dangerous conditions, ever. There is always something "more dangerous".
SGT Rock
07-05-2013, 19:21
I've never had a dangerous ford in the park. That said I can imagine there would be times on some trails, but I haven't seen it.
Hardest one I can think of lately was fording from pinnacle creek trail (now closed) over to eagle creek...
For me---that one was chest deep and moving pretty good....
[QUOTE [/But I must admit I wonder just how high the water can get around campsite #92.QUOTE]
Guessin that they factor in some other elements----like parking down by the ranger station at twenty mile....
HooKooDooKu
07-05-2013, 23:10
Guessin that they factor in some other elements----like parking down by the ranger station at twenty mile....
If you hike the Twenty Mile/Long Hungry Ridge/Gregory Bald/Wolf Ridge loop, I thought all main stream crossings were currently bridged except for the two on either side of #92?
It's been a number of years since I've hiked that loop, but the first time I did it----the first bridge going up wolf ridge was washed out.
But what I'd be more concerned about, with a significant amount of rainfall, is having a car near the ranger station.....
HooKooDooKu
07-06-2013, 12:02
The "Hiking Trails of the Smokies" guide warns of the possibility of the Wolf Ridge foot bridges being washed out. The 1st time I ever hiked that loop about 10 years ago, there weren't any foot bridges along Wolf Ridge (and didn't look like any used to be). But when I hiked it about 2-3 years ago, all the foot bridges were in place.
As for parking near the ranger station, are you afraid of the creek flooding (the parking area is right by the creek, but I recall the roadway sits high above the creek) or that the roadway itself can become a mud pit you can't drive through?
Sir-Packs-Alot
07-06-2013, 12:30
Thanks Sarge ! WOW - the weather this year (from the craziness the March northbounders went through - through heavy daily downpours - up through your current update) has been challenging and dangerous ! Despite the fact that the Smokies is a rainforest, and that we have returned to more regular weather patterns (and FAR BEYOND INTO RECORD FLOOD) ... has been startling. Strange to remember that we were experiencing drought years just a few years back (here's a picture below on the AT through the Smokies 5 years ago - when there was no water at all for 20 mile segments)
22396
Sir-Packs-Alot
07-06-2013, 12:36
Thanks Sarge! Amazing how wierd the weather has been this year. Despite the fact that the Smokies is a rainforest - we have swung back from the droughts of a few years ago - past normal - into record flooding this year.
Here's an odd memory (in the photo below) of the AT through the Smokies not too long ago ...
22397
Sir-Packs-Alot
07-06-2013, 12:50
WOW - Thanks Sarge ! It's amazing how the weather has been this year! It started with the craziness that the northbound thru-hikers experienced in March - and continues up to the present ! Despite the fact that we swung our way out of drought years (the Smokies ARE a rainforest after all ) we have "overswung" into record flooding this year! Remember not too long ago when these signs on the Smokies AT stated "No water for 20 miles"? :)
Traffic Jam
07-06-2013, 15:27
I hiked Fontana to Clingman's last week. The trail was a slippery, boot-sucking mess!
SGT Rock
07-06-2013, 20:34
11 rescued from Little River
A sudden increase in the amount of water flowing in the Little River earlier this afternoon left 11 people clinging to branches before emergency personnel rescued them.The Townsend Volunteer Fire Department, Blount County Fire Department and Blount Special Operations Response Team personnel performed swift-water rescues of individuals who were riding tubes on the river, Townsend Volunteer Fire Department Chief Don Stallions said.
The chief said the first call came into Blount County E-911 dispatchers at 12:30 p.m.
“We had rain in the national park and the river rose dramatically and almost doubled its cubic feet per second. It went from a relatively safe flow to very dangerous flow with lot of people still on the river,” Stallions said. “They were grabbing hold of trees and holding on. It was a mix of adults and juveniles,”
Rescue personnel left the scene after the last person was pulled out of the water before 2:30 p.m., officials said.
Stallions said it was a very technical rescue.
“First we had three and then six we were trying to get out and then an assistant chief found two more stranded on what was an island and that was when we called for mutual aid,” he said of requesting help from other agencies.
Eventually 11 people were located and rescued and while some of them had bumps and bruises, no serious injuries were reported, the chief said.
Stallions said this rescue comes just a few weeks after retired Deputy Chief Ranger Rick Brown with the Great Smoky Mountains National Park brought in the search and rescue coordinator for Shenandoah National Park to do scenario-based swift water rescue training.
“We have a very highly trained swift water rescue team and we spend a lot of time training,” he said.
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Ox97GaMe
07-07-2013, 15:50
The water levels in the park are deep enough to be of concern. I just finished hiking the Eagle Creek trail this week. The water on these crossings was waist deep and VERY swift. I am 6 ft and experienced in swift river crossings. There were a couple of these crossings that had me concerned. I cant imagine trying to cross these with a youngster.
I was on the lower Forney Creek Trail (below campsite 70) several years ago and saw debris in the trees 6-7 feet high. Part of the trail had been completely washed down to just bolders. Park services estimated that the water would have been about 10 ft deep at the peak of that storm.
Forecast this holiday weekend was for 5-6 inches of of additional rain over the park. That could correlate to streams being up as much as 3-4 feet higher. Given the already high levels because of the rain over the past 2 months, this will create concerns at several of the fords.
illabelle
07-07-2013, 16:47
I remember the first time visiting the little parking area at Leatherwood Ford in Big South Fork (eastern KY/TN - not that far from the Smokies). The gazebo has a photo display of very high river flooding that had occurred in a previous year. The volume of water required to fill the gorge to the level of the gazebo (not sure how high above the normal level, 20' would be a conservative guess) and also considering the widening of the channel as you go up the hill - that volume would have been stupendous! Parts of our favorite trail in BSF, the Honey Creek Loop, requires walking in a normally shallow creek bed for an extended period. I would expect that the recent rains have made that creek and many others impassable and quite dangerous.
Photo below shows river at normal levels after a lesser flood. Note the bent railroad tie at the downstream edge of the old bridge.
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4765439084726711&pid=1.7&w=310&h=188&c=7&rs=1
I hear ya HooKooDooKu. I failed to consider having wee ones with you on those fords. Glad everything went OK!. Fords in those conditions or as Ox97GaMe mentioned are things to be aware of so sorry if my post sounded like I was totally dismissing any concern.
TIDE-HSV
07-08-2013, 00:56
I hear ya HooKooDooKu. I failed to consider having wee ones with you on those fords. Glad everything went OK!. Fords in those conditions or as Ox97GaMe mentioned are things to be aware of so sorry if my post sounded like I was totally dismissing any concern.I've hiked Forney with an 11 year old daughter. The water was a bit high, but it was nothing like this year. Tough enough as it was...