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joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 01:18
Hiked Pinkham Notch to Lake of the Clouds on Sunday, accidently missing summit of Mt. Washington. Summited Monday AM, but the Summit Stage would not sell me a 1 way down ticket as a single hiker, so I spent a wet day sliding down Tuckerman Ravine, which if possible, seemed steeper than the ascent of Mt. Madison from Osgood Tentsite.

Everything pretty much hurts. First real blisters, knees making crunching sound again, banged up knees and chin, sunburn, epic chafing, a few new bug bites, even my eyeballs hurt. But otherwise, a great hike!

Going to take a couple of days off, and hope that the heavy rain outside now does not turn what little soil there is on the Appalachian "Trail" in NH into impassible mud.

rocketsocks
07-02-2013, 01:26
Hiked Pinkham Notch to Lake of the Clouds on Sunday, accidently missing summit of Mt. Washington. Summited Monday AM, but the Summit Stage would not sell me a 1 way down ticket as a single hiker, so I spent a wet day sliding down Tuckerman Ravine, which if possible, seemed steeper than the ascent of Mt. Madison from Osgood Tentsite.

Everything pretty much hurts. First real blisters, knees making crunching sound again, banged up knees and chin, sunburn, epic chafing, a few new bug bites, even my eyeballs hurt. But otherwise, a great hike!

Going to take a couple of days off, and hope that the heavy rain outside now does not turn what little soil there is on the Appalachian "Trail" in NH into impassible mud.
I wanna know what happen to the chin? oh, and I never hiked in New England yet...sounds wonderful though, gettin beat in ta hell, can't wait. Have a great hike JD.

and what's with the eyeballs?

illabelle
07-02-2013, 05:29
JD, you have my sympathy. I've only done a short section in the Whites, from Mt Washington to Mizpah. Aborted, took a side trail down. We read in the guidebook that it was hard. How hard can it be? we thought.

I wish I could claim to have done the Whites, but now that I've seen for myself how very hard it can be, I know I can't try again until I get in better shape and carry less weight, or do the hut-to-hut thing.

Crunchy knees! Ouch!

yellowsirocco
07-02-2013, 06:16
No, the only easy part of NH is between Glencliff and Hanover. I look at where the OP is from and that pretty much sums it up, NH is a completely different ballgame than northern VA.

jeffmeh
07-02-2013, 06:25
Further corroboration that:
1) Hikers who cut their teeth in the Whites have fewer surprises in terms of terrain
2) Going down sucks

Still jealous, though. :)

hikerboy57
07-02-2013, 06:37
although yu could take the ski lift up wildcat

joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 06:39
Sore eyeballs from the sun I guess--can't complain too much about that since I had some great views. Chin hit a rock when arresting from fall down Tuckerman's (that place they ski the headwall in late spring). Usually I absorb falls pretty well, but I had to flip over and grab something because of the obscene downslope.

Illabelle, IMO, descending in the Whites may be the hardest part. You hiked the Whites. Unfortunately, you may have also partially answered my question. It may not get any easier.

joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 06:53
No, the only easy part of NH is between Glencliff and Hanover. I look at where the OP is from and that pretty much sums it up, NH is a completely different ballgame than northern VA.

I did not think any given mile of that section was more difficult than something south of NH (of which I only have a couple hundred miles to do). The problem was that each of miles 5 through 14 on that first day was a 1 mph mile. On the rest of the AT, you get a tough couple miles, then an easy section, rinse, repeat. What I was hoping to hear is that north of Glencliff, you get a few easy stretches.

RED-DOG
07-02-2013, 06:56
After successfully completing three Thru-Hikes I've got to say that NH and ME is the toughest two states on the AT, and with all the rain they been having that will make twice as hard, and no NH does not get any easier in fact it gets HARDER, so GOOD LUCK and HAPPY TRAILS.:jump

hikerboy57
07-02-2013, 07:00
and dont think it ends when you get out of the whites. western maine is equally difficult.
gets easier right after katahdin

rickb
07-02-2013, 07:02
Sore eyeballs from the sun I guess--can't complain too much about that since I had some great views. Chin hit a rock when arresting from fall down Tuckerman's (that place they ski the headwall in late spring). Usually I absorb falls pretty well, but I had to flip over and grab something because of the obscene downslope.

Illabelle, IMO, descending in the Whites may be the hardest part. You hiked the Whites. Unfortunately, you may have also partially answered my question. It may not get any easier.

Sucks that they wouldn't sell you a ticket for a ride down. I know they won't promise to have space for people just descending, but I thought you could sort of count on purchasing a ticket down (on top of Mount Washington, not at the base) provided you asked early enough in the day.

I think it will get easier though. How many continuous miles did you walk without a single tree to shade you and cradle you in their loving embrace?

Rasty
07-02-2013, 07:08
The Tuckermans decent is so much fun.

joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 07:28
Sucks that they wouldn't sell you a ticket for a ride down. I know they won't promise to have space for people just descending, but I thought you could sort of count on purchasing a ticket down (on top of Mount Washington, not at the base) provided you asked early enough in the day.

I think it will get easier though. How many continuous miles did you walk without a single tree to shade you and cradle you in their loving embrace?

I asked at 930 am, and they would not guarantee me a ride down unless I bought two tickets, despite the fact a guided tour van half empty came up to the summit at 940. According to the ticket seller, they do not mix hikers and tourgroups. I asked that driver if I could ride down with that group,and she seemed to want to bring me down, but she checked with the first person I dealt with and was overruled.

At least 9 miles without a real tree...

DavidNH
07-02-2013, 08:30
My sympathies on your blisters and soreness. but I have to wonder what you were expecting. Didn't you do some research before heading to the whites?
it's not clear if you are thru hiking or just doing a long section or even a short section but just in case you are doing a long section going into Maine:

NO it's not going to get ANY easier anytime soon. The Whites are among the most challenging sections of the entire Appalachian Trail. To boot, you are hiking in what of the wettest summers in years (you probably already know that) so rocks are slippery and mud is everywhere. Going North from Pinkham you face the Carter Range. Going South There's the Presidentials, the Franconias, The Kinsmans.

Just how does on "accidentally" miss the summit of Mount Washington?

If you didn't get a ride on the stage coach.. my guess is that it was full with people not equipped for hiking and they figured some one with hiking gear could make his way down. If the van wasn't full it's hard to imagine they wouldn't sell you a ticket.

bear bag hanger
07-02-2013, 09:03
I've hiked to the top of Mt Washington twice now. Once in 2004 and a second time in 2006. Both times I was able to purchase a round trip ticket to the bottom, stay at a motel near by, and then ride back to the top in the morning. Both times had to wait a while for space on a van to go down, but otherwise didn't have any problems. The other tourist in the vans seem to enjoy the stories about my hike. Guess they have changed their policies?

joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 09:04
Van was not full (whole backseat was open), they just do not mix hikers and tourgroups. Missed misty summit by mistakenly following cairn for Westside trail. Eventually realized my mistake, but by then, had conceded that I would head to the hut or bail down the mountain and camp/shelter.

Doing short sections this week, and had intended to descend off of Washington Sunday night (missed the cog by about a hiking mile), was prepared to bail and camp, but as the thunderstorms did not come, I just kept hiking.


FYI, the Dungeon in Lake of the Clouds hut is full of ice, but I was prepared to pay for a bunk anyway.

Pedaling Fool
07-02-2013, 09:29
First off, going downhill requires greater strenght then going uphill, despite everyone talks about "climbs".

Until science gives us a pill and replaceable limbs and whatever else science will come up with to make our lives easier the only way to make the trails easier is either to drastically change the trails or for us to drastically change our bodies.

Hiking mountains is weightlifting and just as in weightlifting if you want to pick up heavier objects or pick up a given object for sustained periods of time you gotta breakdown the body and build it back up. That is the only way to make to soreness go away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD445AlUxsI

Driver8
07-02-2013, 10:52
To the OP, the Whites are super-hard relative to the rest of the A.T. corridor, with, I gather, the exception of much of Maine. There are easier hikes to be had in the Whites, but few easy ones that attain any elevation. You pay for your views.

As to descending Tuckerman, just be glad you didn't go down Lion Head. It's worse. I went up Tuck's and down Lion Head last summer, and the latter was, on the backside of a long, arduous day, much worse. Down is harder than up, for sure, but at least TRT is well graded and constructed. Your fall sounds scary. Glad you're OK. When's your next adventure up there?

Driver8
07-02-2013, 10:54
As I've put it, in my limited experience, the hardest 20 miles of CT through VT on the A.T. would probably correlate to an average 20 miles in New Hampshire.

10-K
07-02-2013, 11:07
I didn't call the AT in the Whites "hiking".....

Slo-go'en
07-02-2013, 11:23
I didn't call the AT in the Whites "hiking".....

No, it's more like mountain climbing :)

Too late now, but going up Washington from the Cog RR side is a bit easier then the Pinkham side.

Kingbee
07-02-2013, 11:49
I'm headed to the Whites on the 22nd. Cannot wait!

joshuasdad
07-02-2013, 16:11
As I've put it, in my limited experience, the hardest 20 miles of CT through VT on the A.T. would probably correlate to an average 20 miles in New Hampshire.Well, that is somewhat promising, as I have finished all but 36 miles of CT/MA/VT, and have not seen anything nearly as difficult as that Presidential section. I suggest 20 miles Vermont Green Mountains = 14 miles in Whites effortwise.

Kerosene
07-02-2013, 16:18
I think that the section from Wildcat to Grafton Notch is a bit harder than the Prezzies.

I recall the trail down to the Carlo Col Lean-to turn-off. It was a nice, dry sunny day in mid-September 2012. That final drop down a steep rock face had me cursing the trail builder. I was a bit frustrated and it was almost time for lunch, so I sat on a rock at the turn-off to eat. While sitting there I hear the "tink-tink" of trekking poles, followed by cursing as another hiker slipped/fell down the face. We had a good laugh, when a third hiker let out a lout "You gotta be kidding me!", which caused us both to crack up. I just can't imagine doing some of those descents in wet conditions.

Driver8
07-02-2013, 16:27
Well, that is somewhat promising, as I have finished all but 36 miles of CT/MA/VT, and have not seen anything nearly as difficult as that Presidential section. I suggest 20 miles Vermont Green Mountains = 14 miles in Whites effortwise.

St. John's Ledges, north side of Bear Mountain, south side of Everett, north and south ends of the Greylock Range come to mind. Short stretches, compared to the Whites.

rickb
07-02-2013, 17:28
Pain and suffering per diem = difficulty of trail X number of miles walked in day

None of us can change the difficulty of the Trail.

But we can all change the number of miles walked in a day- except in the stretch of Trail that Josuasdad just finished. To a great extent, the Presidentials set the minimum schedule there, right?

Ergo, the rest of NH is easier -- if you want it to be. Just cut back the miles.

Zippy Morocco
07-02-2013, 17:36
I just came into Gorham today. The last 3 miles before hwy 2 heading nobo were pretty easy. The rest has been pretty tough. I have enjoyed it very much. The Whites are amazing. I hope to come back when not on a thruhike and really explore this area.

Driver8
07-02-2013, 17:53
I just came into Gorham today. The last 3 miles before hwy 2 heading nobo were pretty easy. The rest has been pretty tough. I have enjoyed it very much. The Whites are amazing. I hope to come back when not on a thruhike and really explore this area.

Glad you made it through the Whites in good shape, Zippy. Hope you enjoy Gorham and have fun in the mighty Mahoosucs. Will Ann post anything new at the blog? I need a fix! :)

Zippy Morocco
07-02-2013, 20:52
Glad you made it through the Whites in good shape, Zippy. Hope you enjoy Gorham and have fun in the mighty Mahoosucs. Will Ann post anything new at the blog? I need a fix! :)

Thank you Driver8. We are looking forward to the Mahoosucs. Ann's brother joined for a week too. She has been working on a post and should have it up before we leave town. Thank you for following our adventure.

Hops53
07-03-2013, 07:59
Hey Jo...., feel your pain - spent the last 4 days in the Whites - Sat and Sunday hard, but not bad - Monday rough, Tuesday impossible - the rain has been a major issue - on entry at the Eliza Brook Shelter said "the creek is at flood stage and the track is a swimming pool" - we're taking a break for a couple of days and heading to Portland - we're going coastal before we go postal -- the rain is supposed to let up after today.

joshuasdad
07-03-2013, 10:30
Pain and suffering per diem = difficulty of trail X number of miles walked in day

None of us can change the difficulty of the Trail.

But we can all change the number of miles walked in a day- except in the stretch of Trail that Josuasdad just finished. To a great extent, the Presidentials set the minimum schedule there, right?

Ergo, the rest of NH is easier -- if you want it to be. Just cut back the miles.

You could stop at Madison Hut, if there is availability (and that is a big IF), but yes, the minimum for a section hiker that day is about 10 miles (camping at Osgood). Adding the 4 miles prior to that did not add much to the pain factor, as it was relatively easy.

Rain Man
07-03-2013, 10:39
If you didn't get a ride on the stage coach....

I was speaking with the Auto Road folks just yesterday, making plans for my August section hike starting on Washington's summit, where I left off last August. They mentioned "the stage" as if I should know what they were talking about, but we switched to "the hiker shuttle" and never discussed "the stage."

Might I ask, what is "the stage"?

Also, the hiker shuttle is $30 and the cog railroad is $60. I'm considering paying the extra $30 to do the cog. Is it worth the experience? I've already ridden the Auto Road once (last year), so already have that experience.

Rain:sunMan

.

atmilkman
07-03-2013, 10:49
I was speaking with the Auto Road folks just yesterday, making plans for my August section hike starting on Washington's summit, where I left off last August. They mentioned "the stage" as if I should know what they were talking about, but we switched to "the hiker shuttle" and never discussed "the stage."

Might I ask, what is "the stage"?

Also, the hiker shuttle is $30 and the cog railroad is $60. I'm considering paying the extra $30 to do the cog. Is it worth the experience? I've already ridden the Auto Road once (last year), so already have that experience.

Rain:sunMan

.

We're headed there in Oct. with my sister and brother-in-law who is from there. I asked him and he said the stages are now vans. Good luck on your hike. I'd like to take the train for the heck of it. Maybe see a "moonrise".

hikerboy57
07-03-2013, 10:51
I was speaking with the Auto Road folks just yesterday, making plans for my August section hike starting on Washington's summit, where I left off last August. They mentioned "the stage" as if I should know what they were talking about, but we switched to "the hiker shuttle" and never discussed "the stage."

Might I ask, what is "the stage"?

Also, the hiker shuttle is $30 and the cog railroad is $60. I'm considering paying the extra $30 to do the cog. Is it worth the experience? I've already ridden the Auto Road once (last year), so already have that experience.

Rain:sunMan

.
i actually took it down , once. i think the only benefits are
1- you can say you rode the cog.
2- you may see a full "moon"

Driver8
07-03-2013, 11:28
I was speaking with the Auto Road folks just yesterday, making plans for my August section hike starting on Washington's summit, where I left off last August. They mentioned "the stage" as if I should know what they were talking about, but we switched to "the hiker shuttle" and never discussed "the stage."

Might I ask, what is "the stage"?

Also, the hiker shuttle is $30 and the cog railroad is $60. I'm considering paying the extra $30 to do the cog. Is it worth the experience? I've already ridden the Auto Road once (last year), so already have that experience.

Rain:sunMan

.

I think the engineering accomplishment that is the Cog, plus the views you get on the ride, recommend that approach. I had a ball a year ago ascending the Jewell and Gulfside Trails, watching the trains go up and down. The views from the west are awesome, especially of the southern Presis, the Twins and, as you rise, Franconia Ridge. I intend to ride the Cog someday for the fun of it, though personally I fret about it due to the very small chance of an accident.

Driver8
07-03-2013, 12:02
P.S.: I believe the "Stage" is the shuttle van. In the old days it was a stage coach.

DavidNH
09-04-2015, 10:51
does northern New Hampshire get any easier? I presume you mean after the Pinkham Notch camp. No it doesn't. You next face the Carter range which is very steep and rough. That leads you to route 2 where you hitch into Gorham. Then you hit the Mahoosics.

rafe
09-04-2015, 12:19
I'm not clear on exactly where the White Mountains begin and end, but the short answer to the OP's question is no.

Most of Maine is comparable to the Whites in terms of difficulty and scenic views. The big difference is you lose the crowds, mostly.

There are a few short stretches of relatively easy trail. Eg., the northern half of the Hundred Mile wilderness, the stretch from Flagstaff Lake to Pierce Pond, or the few miles just north of Abol bridge.

One unfortunate aspect of the traditional NOBO thru hike is that hikers tent to be tired, weary and half-starved while hiking through Maine.

bill1980
09-04-2015, 13:44
In August 2014, I climbed Tuckerman Ravine to the top of Mt Washington along with three other hikers. Being under time constraints, we decided to take the shuttle down the auto road. They politely sold each of us a ticket for the last 4 seats in the van, and even helped load our packs and trekking poles in the rear with no questions whatsoever. Strange that they would claim that hikers don't mix with other shuttle passengers. As a matter of fact, the conversation on the way down was rather lively, with the other passengers very interested in the fact that we climbed up. Of course, they did think we were "nuts".

joshuasdad
09-04-2015, 18:10
Bill, hopefully that revised policy was the result of a few phone calls I made... ;)

As an FYI, I finished the AT near the AMC lodge near Tuckerman's Ravine in August 2014, and no, the Whites do not get easier.... I still have nightmares about that SOBO descent off of Wildcat in the face of approaching darkness and storm...

DavidNH
09-04-2015, 21:11
The white mountains start at Glencliff and finish in Gorham. After Gorham it's up into the Mahoosics. Most of Maine is also very mountainous.