Wasilik Poplar Cut Down?

[Tha Wookie]

For those of you who don't know about the Wasilik Poplar, it is rumored to be the second largest poplar tree in the nation. It is a lonely reminder of the once magnificent forests that once covered the US from the East Coast to the midwest, before logging altered over 99% of all forests in the area. It is located on a blue-blaze trail off the AT at Rock Gap in North Carolina.

I have heard from a highly reliable source that land management officials are considering cutting it down, for liability issues.

I was told, and have noticed myself, that it is dying. The cause is unknown, but some scientists reportedly say it is because of the extremely high amount of visitor traffic at its base, compacting soil around the roots, carving into it, and actually stripping its bark intentionally for some reason. Who knows, maybe it is just old and tired (and lonely). It was topped by Hurrican Opal some years ago.

So now they are afriad that it may drop its branches and kill people.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Do you think they should cut it down?

[SGT Rock]

For those of you who don't know about the Wasilik Poplar, it is rumored to be the second largest poplar tree in the nation. It is a lonely reminder of the once magnificent forests that once covered the US from the East Coast to the midwest, before logging altered over 99% of all forests in the area. It is located on a blue-blaze trail off the AT at Rock Gap in North Carolina.

I have heard from a highly reliable source that land management officials are considering cutting it down, for liability issues.

I was told, and have noticed myself, that it is dying. The cause is unknown, but some scientists reportedly say it is because of the extremely high amount of visitor traffic at its base, compacting soil around the roots, carving into it, and actually stripping its bark intentionally for some reason. Who knows, maybe it is just old and tired (and lonely). It was topped by Hurrican Opal some years ago.

So now they are afriad that it may drop its branches and kill people.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Do you think they should cut it down?Dang that is sad. I remember visiting that tree in the '70s and it was not looking good last time I was there in 2001. I hope if they do decide to cut it down, that they somehow preserve the base of the tree and put it on display to show future generations what we have lost. Last time I was there I tried to picture the forest full of trees (Chestnuts mainly) that were that size.

Edit:
Speaking of the Chestnuts,. I have heard from a reliable source that they have been able to breed blight resistant American Chestnuts in Florida. Anyone (esp Wookie who seems to be on the inside loop on these sorts of things) heard about this? Of course we would never see the same sorts of forests in our lifetime, but that would be a good thing for us to leave for our Grandchildren.

[TakeABreak]

First, I would like to see the poplar roped off, and notices put up to see if they can enough people to respect the roped area. To see if it makes a recovery, before just wacking it down.

On the chestnut thing, I have heard the same thing, I can't remember if it was something I read, saw on a nature show or heard from one of my environmental science professor's. I will take a look in the next couple of days and see, if I have anything on it.

[Alligator]

Dang that is sad. I remember visiting that tree in the '70s and it was not looking good last time I was there in 2001. I hope if they do decide to cut it down, that they somehow preserve the base of the tree and put it on display to show future generations what we have lost. Last time I was there I tried to picture the forest full of trees (Chestnuts mainly) that were that size.

Edit:
Speaking of the Chestnuts,. I have heard from a reliable source that they have been able to breed blight resistant American Chestnuts in Florida. Anyone (esp Wookie who seems to be on the inside loop on these sorts of things) heard about this? Of course we would never see the same sorts of forests in our lifetime, but that would be a good thing for us to leave for our Grandchildren.
Funny, I just read an article on this. There are two camps. The pure American Chestnuts and those bred with Chinese chestnuts, then back-crossed to restore purity. The crossbred ones are very close to completion. The article said they would be making selections in 2006. They are something like 97+% pure. Don't know which camp was in Florida.

Lately, the locations of the some of the champion trees have been kept secret, to prevent damaging them.

[trippclark]

From the American Chestnut Foundation Website
http://www.acf.org/

"The goal of THE AMERICAN CHESTNUT FOUNDATION
is to restore the American chestnut tree to its native range within the woodlands of the eastern United States, using a scientific research and breeding program developed by its founders. A blight-resistant American chestnut tree is expected to be ready for forest test-planting in 2006 and for wider distribution within the next decade."

They also have a brief history of the tree
http://www.acf.org/Chestnut_history.htm

It is quite interesting, and sad.

Tripp

[Trail Dog]

is that the giant tree near that hostle? Damn i forget the name. Well it didnt look all too healthy when i saw it and it had a whole lot of carvings in it. I think i am takling about the right tree.

If people are going to carve into the tree i dont think they will listen to a polite sign and some rope.

[SGT Rock]

Hey I just found this: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/trees/pages/chestnut.html
and this:
http://www.chamomiletimes.com/herbs/chestnuts.htm

[Tha Wookie]

Dang that is sad. I remember visiting that tree in the '70s and it was not looking good last time I was there in 2001. I hope if they do decide to cut it down, that they somehow preserve the base of the tree and put it on display to show future generations what we have lost. Last time I was there I tried to picture the forest full of trees (Chestnuts mainly) that were that size.

Edit:
Speaking of the Chestnuts,. I have heard from a reliable source that they have been able to breed blight resistant American Chestnuts in Florida. Anyone (esp Wookie who seems to be on the inside loop on these sorts of things) heard about this? Of course we would never see the same sorts of forests in our lifetime, but that would be a good thing for us to leave for our Grandchildren.
Rock, sorry, I don't know much about the chestnuts besides what has already been stated here. It is encouraging to think they might someday return to prominence. However, I am a bit skeptical, because it seems every time we modify nature it blows up in our faces.

I wonder how it would fit into the GMO (Genetic Modified) debate. I've seen some pretty convincing evidence that things like GMO corn have detrimental effects on other plants, creating a dangerously homogeneous biological situation, where the modified "frankenfood" litterally takes over, and intrudes on other plants in an invasive fashion.

Already, we've seen the terrible ecological consequences of introducing new species to an area, like kudzu, european beach grass, mongooses, rainbow trout, gysy moths, and so on, that tend to dominate and eliminate native species that are key ecological community members. I'm not saying I know this GMO chesnut to be invasive, but history is not on its side. I would like to learn more, if anyone has some more well-cited references to share.

If 97% is native, how will the other 3% behave? I hope not like most of the other species we've imported from Asia.

But it would be nice to see the Chestnuts big and brave. just not too brave...

It just occurred to me that they might not be GMO, but just cross-breeding. Does anyone know more about this? Still, it's a risk worth considering.

Anyway, I hope the Wasilik Poplar continues its legacy, and avoids the saw. I'd rather see them close the trail than finish off the old soul.

[Nean]

It is near Rainbow Springs Trail Dog.

[Ridge]

The Poplar, at Rock Gap, could be set "Off Limits" in the same way trails are closed so as to "recover". I can't believe the USFS would cut it down.

[Dances with Mice]

I own a few acres with some large, but by no means ancient, poplars. Tulip poplar wood is not reknown for hardness. We're not talking hickories or walnuts here.

Old poplars are seldom symmetrical because large branches tend to break and split the main trunk. It's not a good tree to have close to your house. Storms wreak havok on them. All the older pops on my propety have lost their original crown at least once.

The Waslik grandfather has played deep into overtime. It shouldn't be thrown out of the game before it's ready but a little respect could be shown by keeping folks away from its base.

[SGT Rock]

For people who have never see the tree:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4623/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/41/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/48/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

[Lion King]

Amusing...they find the tree a 'threat' to people by doing what it does...just dropping branches.

'They' voted to have it removed to protect people...there are chances you take with any outdoor excursion, and standing/sleeping under a big tree and having the branches fall on you are a couple of them.

Let the tree die in its own way, if it is sick, then leave it alone....I dont know what to say....it is sad, but the same people who have made this decision are the same people who make a lot o fother choices without the peoples consent or ackowledgment.

Man improving Nature...what a hoot.
Sorry to hear this.

[Rain Man]

So, far, this entire thread is based on a plainly unsubstantiated and admitted rumor.

I say please pause and count to 10 before bemoaning this and that as if it were FACT.

That's all. Thanks fer listening!

Rain:sunMan

.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm no tree hugger. I ain't gonna lose sleep over an almost dead, vandalized tree.

[The Solemates]

Isnt there another really large famous tree on or near the AT? A different one than the wasilik...

[SGT Rock]

Maybe you mean the Dover Oak:

The Dover Oak: http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7693/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

or the Keffer Oak:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mellery/webpage/hikes/Keffer%20Oak/index.html

[The Solemates]

nope not the one i was thinking about. i am thinking of a shagbark hickory or something like that.

[Alligator]

As far as I know, the crossbred chestnut is not a GMO. There has been no gene splicing that I am aware of. They don't seem to have identified the genes that confer blight resistance. I have a friend who I will double check with. It is simply a crossbreed like many of our regular domestic vegetables are. I would prefer that the purebred version be restored myself, but I think the crossbred chestnut will win the race. Given the prominence of the American chestnut in the forest canopy previously, it is a smaller concern about it taking over. Also, the Chinese chestnuts are shorter and unable to reach the height necessary to dominate in the canopy.

[Lion King]

I'm no tree hugger. I ain't gonna lose sleep over an almost dead, vandalized tree. I got pictures of you hugging a tree!

:D
:D


Not really...but imagine! ;):banana

[Tha Wookie]

So, far, this entire thread is based on a plainly unsubstantiated and admitted rumor.

I say please pause and count to 10 before bemoaning this and that as if it were FACT.

That's all. Thanks fer listening!

Rain:sunMan

.
You're right, there was no "vote" to cut down the tree. It is only something that has been talked about. I think they know there would be big opposition to it. But the USFS is forced to minimize litigation potential, especially since their budget was decreased by 2% (which is a LOT of money), and they are less and less able to defend theirselves and do there job.

If they left the tree, the might have to close the trail, build a barricade, enforce the closure, remove the tree, ect. It all ends up costing a lot of money. It's might be cheaper just to cut it down.

Of course, I don't agree with the idea, but I think it personifies what our country has come to these days when regarding anything natural.

This is not a done deal, there is no decision. I'd be surprised if they actually did it. But I know for sure it was or is on the table as a possibility. It's a sick way to deal with it, if you ask me.

I wonder how much a sign would cost that says "head's up!" I'm sure Finishin' Fred could cut 'em a deal!

[Nightwalker]

I got pictures of you hugging a tree!
I think that was a toilet...

:D

[Nightwalker]

If they left the tree, the might have to close the trail, build a barricade, enforce the closure, remove the tree, ect. It all ends up costing a lot of money. It's might be cheaper just to cut it down.
The most sensible thing to do would be to close the side trail and let the tree die on its own. That means that it's the least likely thing to happen.

[Speer Carrier]

I can't say this for a fact, however when I was at Rock Gap a few weeks ago I thought about taking the side trail down to see the poplar, but when a family came into the gap from visiting the tree and said it was dead I decided not to. I had already seen what is reputed to be the largest polar at Highlands, NC. so I didn't consider it a big deal. If that family was correct, perhaps the forest service does consider it a hazard.


Skink

[Tha Wookie]

I can't say this for a fact, however when I was at Rock Gap a few weeks ago I thought about taking the side trail down to see the poplar, but when a family came into the gap from visiting the tree and said it was dead I decided not to. I had already seen what is reputed to be the largest polar at Highlands, NC. so I didn't consider it a big deal. If that family was correct, perhaps the forest service does consider it a hazard.


Skink
Well you missed it. It's not dead. There are green leaves and new seasonal growth on it. But it does not have long. You really should check it out. It will stretch your imagination.

[Jaybird]

I'm no tree hugger. I ain't gonna lose sleep over an almost dead, vandalized tree.



Hey WOLF...

if you cut it down...are they gonna allow a BIG CAMPFIRE there to CELEBRATE????



hehehehehehehe :D

[JoeHiker]

For people who have never see the tree:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4623/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/41/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/48/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

Now that is a big honkin' tree. Does Hennessey make 30 foot-long tree huggers?

[SGT Rock]

Already, we've seen the terrible ecological consequences of introducing new species to an area, like kudzu, european beach grass, mongooses, rainbow trout, gysy moths, and so on, that tend to dominate and eliminate native species that are key ecological community members. I'm not saying I know this GMO chesnut to be invasive, but history is not on its side. I would like to learn more, if anyone has some more well-cited references to share.

If 97% is native, how will the other 3% behave? I hope not like most of the other species we've imported from Asia.

But it would be nice to see the Chestnuts big and brave. just not too brave...
You know Wookie, just yesterday I was looking at the forest as I stood there in the rain. I stood there for about half of an hour just marveling at how beautiful the place was in the rain with all the mist. And it was probably a place that most hikers would just consider a part of the green tunnel - a place to get to somewhere else like the falls or something. But I was just standing there waiting, and marveling at the big trees in that area. And I know they can't be any more than about 70 years old in that area - the Chestnuts once dominated that place. But after they left, something else took hold and made a new - yet different forest. Then I think of the top of the ridge where I was working the day before, pine trees dying up there from whatever it is killing them this time, but other plants and trees are making a new forest that will also someday take over. I read somewhere that the "balance of nature" is myth, that things always change and there is no way to really preserve something wild, just protect it. Then I thought of this post you made a few days ago.

So I guess your point about the chestnuts coming back running out other species could be true, but it seems like it would just be another wave of change that hits the forest. But, by trying to bring them back are we fixing what we screwed up, or just screwing up what is already fixed?

Honestly I don't know and I don't pretend to think I've got it figured out and I may never figure it out. But I think it is something to ponder on before we go planting a bunch of trees and then pat ourselves on the back for how clever we have become.:-?

[The Old Fhart]

Gawd, Rock! That was an amazingly deep post. I'm impressed. Way to go!

[Tha Wookie]

You know Wookie, just yesterday I was looking at the forest as I stood there in the rain. I stood there for about half of an hour just marveling at how beautiful the place was in the rain with all the mist. And it was probably a place that most hikers would just consider a part of the green tunnel - a place to get to somewhere else like the falls or something. But I was just standing there waiting, and marveling at the big trees in that area. And I know they can't be any more than about 70 years old in that area - the Chestnuts once dominated that place. But after they left, something else took hold and made a new - yet different forest. Then I think of the top of the ridge where I was working the day before, pine trees dying up there from whatever it is killing them this time, but other plants and trees are making a new forest that will also someday take over. I read somewhere that the "balance of nature" is myth, that things always change and there is no way to really preserve something wild, just protect it. Then I thought of this post you made a few days ago.

So I guess your point about the chestnuts coming back running out other species could be true, but it seems like it would just be another wave of change that hits the forest. But, by trying to bring them back are we fixing what we screwed up, or just screwing up what is already fixed?

Honestly I don't know and I don't pretend to think I've got it figured out and I may never figure it out. But I think it is something to ponder on before we go planting a bunch of trees and then pat ourselves on the back for how clever we have become.:-?
The most striking thing to me about your post is how you came to those intriguing questions. I hope everyone here sees this: Standing there in the mist, looking at the forest for a relaxing half-hour or so, and a question slips into the conscious mind. I would bet that this was not a rational question, or thought that went through a chain of logic to reach the conclusive question. Instead it is what Joseph Pieper called intelluctus, which is somewhat of a transcendent understanding (outside the physical realm of a person's mind) actually presents an answer in itself. In quite simple terms, the forest was speaking, as it always was, and Rock let himself "tune in" to the message. Judging by the majority of Rock's posts, this is not an entirely uncommon phenomena for him.

Rock was, by definition of the connection, as they say, in the moment. He was feeling the condition of the forest as it radiated its ambient existence. That is why he reached this advanced knowledge outside of media reports or scholarly papers. This skill is one of the highest skills that I am aware of for wilderness awaerness and survival skills. I hope everyone here takes note, and also goes to the forest calmly with wide eyes and an empty mind (learn the notes, then forget the notes!).

As to your question itself -at least the parts filled in my your rational mind integrated above with your pure revelation (I can't argue the other)- I have just a few comments:

The debate over what is really nature, and what amount is change is necesssary, can get very idealistic fast. But the bottom line (speaking very rationally now) is that there are natural processes that have risen out of this continent, and they are worth protection at least in the most basic question of survival. If you take a step back, out of the southeast, and the east as a whole, you soon see that the natural forces here are much different in the rest of the hemishpere. You might notice that most of North America is a desert, for at least half the year or all of the year.

What I mean is that you are quite right -that we are in a state of change. But that change is not necessarily for the better for humans, or for the many extinct, endangered, or threatened species. The question in the largest sense boils down to life support systems.

When we lost the mature chestnut, we lost much more than a tree. We lost enough annual food output to feed the entire native population. We lost eight feet (and more) of our topsoil. It's all, as Edward Abbey liked to put it, down the river.

I think your final part is right. It basically asks if returning our forests to the pre-colonial condition is the right thing to do or not. After all, if we had those forests again, wouldn't we just cut them down again? All it takes in the country is enough rational justifications, AKA rationalizations. In that sense, we might be the most rational country ever on the face on the earth, but that's debatable.

What is for sure, from intellectus, or the intuitive mind, is that if you want to repair a log home devestated by termites, you don't rebuild it on the same site before taking care of the termites. Sorry, actually that was ratio explaining intellectus there. What I meant to say is that there is a far more unhealthy presence on this continent in the grsnd scheme, and it is not a fungus. It is a state of mind, a blight on the way to know things. It makes people say, "yes, it is worth destroying the health of our environment for a, b, or c."

So whether or not a repopulation will work, I don't know. But I do know that we're just talking about a leaf in the great canopy of environmental theory.

[SGT Rock]

Dang Wookie and Old Fhart, I didn't mean to get all metaphysical and such. :D

Honestly I don't even attempt to think I know how to answer some of those questions you present Wookie. I reckon I could spend a month living in the woods and never get more awareness than I miss a cold beer, and then again, I could be digging side hill for about 10 minutes and come up with the answer to the meaning of life (I find that sort of work sort of meditative anyway) or the question of soil erosion. And if I did, would it be some deep comprehension or would it just be my emotional state combined with pre-conceived ideas to form an opinion at that point in space time. The day before my big revelation was to wipe out blackberry vines so I would never have to clear them suckers back again:mad:

As to soil erosion, my guess was that deep soil built up over a VERY long time. And that it won't matter too much which tree is over the forest, that process will take more than my lifetime, and my kids lifetime, and my grand-children's lifetime to correct. Maybe one species facilitates this better than another species, I don't know. I guess it would take someone that has studied that to give a better answer - and maybe that is something that even the educated don't know the answer to yet.

And like the forest, we as a species have adapted to the loss of the chestnut. Bringing it back and everything would have to re-adapt again. Besides, I think humans have gotten pretty darn good at adapting to its loss if you take the population increase over the last 70 years. Maybe it is true we are on a fast train to our own extinction, or maybe we will find a new way to adapt in the future. I happen to think it will be the latter because even though we are still screwing things up, there are things we are now doing to try and stop that. What was acceptable 70 yeas ago isn't today, and what was acceptable 30 years ago isn't today. So I have hope.

And my last thought before I get on the road to go do some work at another NG location. Species have a way of adapting and changing. We have seen in the past where there have been attempts to protect one species to the detriment of others. If you believe in evolution (as I do) then it could be argued that it would be impossible to stop the extinction of species. That protection of a biosphere to let the process do its thing is an achievable goal, but to try to freeze the process isn't achievable and may actually do more harm than good. If evolution is the process, there is probably a place out there in the forest where some garden variety songbird is finding its niche and after a few generations it will be a different species native to that location.

Anyway, enough deep thoughts for now, I think I am beginning to come off as a fool.:p

[Newb]

If you guys are ever down in Charleston, SC, you have to visit the Angel Oak. IT's the largest living thing East of the Mississippi. While you're there buy a Resurrection Fern.


http://sciway3.net/outdoors/park-angeloak.html

[SGT Rock]

That is a big tree. Looks like something out of The Lord of the Rings.

[justusryans]

I don't live in the same kind of country as the rest of ya'll. Around here you have pine and cypress trees, but they still get big! www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8239/size/big/sort/1/cat/all (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8239/size/big/sort/1/cat/all)

[ed bell]

Any new info on the USFS proposal to take this tree out? Large poplars are quite an awesome sight. I was absolutly floored when I first saw the poplars in the Joyce Kilmer Memorial forest.

[Tipi Walter]

I was just about to mention the big trees in Kilmer. Everyone should go once in their lifetime and check out those behemoths. Last year I heard a guy from Georgia discovered a small and remote stand of mature Chestnuts growing on a hilltop. I talked to a biologist about it later and he told me there are several such stands scattered around the southeast. And these are mature trees not saplings.

[Sly]

Does the BMT run through where the big trees are in the Kilmer?

[emerald]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've bookmarked it and will return to read it. This is subject matter most interesting to me.

Here's a page (http://www.arboretum.psu.edu/research/orchard.html) I turned up last year related to hybrid chestnuts. I hope you will enjoy reading it and I apologize if I've posted a link that's already been posted.

[ed bell]

Thanks for the link, Shades. I have not seen it before.:)

[tiamalle]

Does the BMT run through where the big trees are in the Kilmer?East side of Tellico gap there is an old slave farm 2 miles down at the bottom of the mtn which is now Tellico Trout Farm.There is an oak tree near the same size as the rock gap poplar.If weather permits for the soruck I will drive the bus up the road that passes it.The owners said it was the 2nd oldest white oak.

[Tipi Walter]

Does the BMT run through where the big trees are in the Kilmer?

The closest the BMT gets to the Kilmer Loops footwise is either Cold Spring Gap north of Beech Gap on the Cherohala Skyway or past it a ways up on the Fodderstack Ridge near Cherry Log Gap. A blue blaze of about 7.5 miles over Bob Bald and down either Horse Cove Ridge or Naked Ground trail would take you to the Loops.

[Desert Lobster]

The title of this thread made me think the tree might have already been cut down.

[trippclark]

Has anyone been to Rock Gap / Wasilik Poplar recently? Is the tree still standing? Is the trail still open? Is the tree confirmed dead? I have not been there myself in a few years.

[Marta]

Has anyone been to Rock Gap / Wasilik Poplar recently? Is the tree still standing? Is the trail still open? Is the tree confirmed dead? I have not been there myself in a few years.

The tree was definitely dead when I went to see it a couple of years ago. The trunk had no bark, and only the largest limbs were still on it. Very sad.

I don't have any more recent news about it, though.

[Mocs123]

I was there a few weeks ago, and while the tree was definitely dead, it was still standing. This was taken in October:

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/44583/2085243580086983979S500x500Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2085243580086983979AbsxPE)

[Marta]

I was there a few weeks ago, and while the tree was definitely dead, it was still standing. This was taken in October:

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/44583/2085243580086983979S500x500Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2085243580086983979AbsxPE)

Hiya, Brad!

[Dances with Mice]

I was there a few weeks ago, and while the tree was definitely dead, it was still standing. No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'!

[Spogatz]

It doesn't have "Cubby '08" carved in it does it?

[Jeff]

Boy, I hope Cubby stopped doing his carving. Did he make it to Springer? When I saw him he was hiking with Grettle and Mango.

[mariannarose]

For those of you who don't know about the Wasilik Poplar, it is rumored to be the second largest poplar tree in the nation. It is a lonely reminder of the once magnificent forests that once covered the US from the East Coast to the midwest, before logging altered over 99% of all forests in the area. It is located on a blue-blaze trail off the AT at Rock Gap in North Carolina.

I have heard from a highly reliable source that land management officials are considering cutting it down, for liability issues.

I was told, and have noticed myself, that it is dying. The cause is unknown, but some scientists reportedly say it is because of the extremely high amount of visitor traffic at its base, compacting soil around the roots, carving into it, and actually stripping its bark intentionally for some reason. Who knows, maybe it is just old and tired (and lonely). It was topped by Hurrican Opal some years ago.

So now they are afriad that it may drop its branches and kill people.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Do you think they should cut it down?
I for one would be heartbroken to see it cut down. You see the tree was dedicated to my grandfather, John Wasilik, an immigrant from Czechoslovakia, who attended Yale University, was an ambulance driver during WWI, and who surveyed the once expansive wilderness surrounding the tree. I have been there recently and seen the damage but saw no threat to those on the trail… My Dad, who is 84 years old, would be heartbroken. Just recently he wanted to know when I might be going down to Ashville so that he could take a detour and visit the tree (it might be hard for him because he isn’t too stable on his feet). I wished the Forest Service would given us a heads up on this… I’m going to find out who to contact .Very sad-How much virgin timber do we have left anyway?!

Marianna Wasilik Previti-bumming out:(:confused::mad:

[Engine]

The description of Hannah Mountain trail in GSMNP makes note of a "Tulip tree" (that I assume means tulip poplar) 10 feet in circumference. That's not as big as the tree I saw in the photos posted earlier in this thread, but it's still a big tree by today's standards. I'm heading down that trail next week and I'll try to get some photos.

[take-a-knee]

For those of you who don't know about the Wasilik Poplar, it is rumored to be the second largest poplar tree in the nation. It is a lonely reminder of the once magnificent forests that once covered the US from the East Coast to the midwest, before logging altered over 99% of all forests in the area. It is located on a blue-blaze trail off the AT at Rock Gap in North Carolina.

I have heard from a highly reliable source that land management officials are considering cutting it down, for liability issues.

I was told, and have noticed myself, that it is dying. The cause is unknown, but some scientists reportedly say it is because of the extremely high amount of visitor traffic at its base, compacting soil around the roots, carving into it, and actually stripping its bark intentionally for some reason. Who knows, maybe it is just old and tired (and lonely). It was topped by Hurrican Opal some years ago.

So now they are afriad that it may drop its branches and kill people.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Do you think they should cut it down?

No, they shouldn't cut it down, that would be way too dangerous. There is no safe way to cut down a tree of that size. They should let a combat engineer unit rig up a timber cutting charge and blow the trunk of that sucker apart, no more problem. If they know what they are doing, it'll land safely where it was intended to land, no more problem. The tree is dead, it IS coming down.

[Darwin again]

No, they shouldn't cut it down, that would be way too dangerous. There is no safe way to cut down a tree of that size. They should let a combat engineer unit rig up a timber cutting charge and blow the trunk of that sucker apart, no more problem. If they know what they are doing, it'll land safely where it was intended to land, no more problem. The tree is dead, it IS coming down.

Because it's all about the art of destruction.
Thanks for providing a perfect example of why you're one of the few people on white blaze who remain on my ignore list.

Blow up the tree -- the stoopid, it hurts. A couple of tree cutters could have it down in a twenty minutes, though it would be sad.

And another zombie thread lives to eat bandwith...

[take-a-knee]

Because it's all about the art of destruction.
Thanks for providing a perfect example of why you're one of the few people on white blaze who remain on my ignore list.

Blow up the tree -- the stoopid, it hurts. A couple of tree cutters could have it down in a twenty minutes, though it would be sad.

And another zombie thread lives to eat bandwith...

I recommend you take up cutting down dead trees Darwin, maybe it'll help you make an evolutionary leap or something.

[Darwin again]

I recommend you take up cutting down dead trees Darwin, maybe it'll help you make an evolutionary leap or something.

Skeered of a little bit of tree, hmmmmm? :banana

[Marta]

There's no reason to take down the tree. It's not near a building or anything it could damage. When I visited the tree a couple of years ago, there wasn't much left except the major branches. It'll take decades for the trunk to deteriorate enough to fall on its own.

[snowhoe]

Insted of cutting it down they should make a totum pole out of it. Its a win win for everyone. It doesnt get cut down and all the branches would be cut off to keep people safe.

[take-a-knee]

Skeered of a little bit of tree, hmmmmm? :banana

I'm scared of a lot of things Darwin, that is probably why I'm still alive. I've had one dangerous occupation after another for thirty years.

[TrippinBTM]

If they left the tree, the might have to close the trail, build a barricade, enforce the closure, remove the tree, ect. It all ends up costing a lot of money.

Really? Why? Is the Forest Service aware that there are millions of dead and dying trees in our forests, and that it's sort of a part of forest ecology?

I also doubt it was the people that killed it. Not that the carving on the trunk helped any; but I bet it had more to do with it getting "topped" in a hurricane, as someone mentioned. Also, soil compaction? I really doubt that's the problem.

[OldStormcrow]

I would have to assume that it just died of old age. All trees do that, eventually....

[JAK]

I wonder if you could just rope off the whole area and let it fall a natural death?

[take-a-knee]

I would have to assume that it just died of old age. All trees do that, eventually....

Oh no, that's just too simple of an answer, it just HAS to be somebody's fault.:-?

[JAK]

I like the site of old paper birch trees off in a clearing deep in the woods, usually on old reclaimed farm land, when they start falling apart. Whole branches fall off, but they keep raising up new shoots. They are only supposed to be short lived pioneer trees, but they don't go easy. What I rarely see is a big paper birch big enough and in good enough shape to build a birch canoe out of. I'm sort of guessing they might have been nurtured some, left alone until big enough to take the bark from. Not sure. Nut trees were also semi-cultivated in this way I think. We used to have alot of Butternut as an important food source, but they were valued for furniture making and pretty much exterminated.

[JAK]

Most human cultures by their nature are a little too quick with an axe.
This time of year I get an itching to plant, but aslo tend to cut away.
I think we all need to work at not getting a little too axe happy.

Phase II of the Fundy Trail Parkway is just about complete. It's a pretty ugly sight.
People tried to tell them not to cut so many trees down, to maybe leave a few.
But you hire people that cut trees for a living, and that's just what they'll do.

http://www.fundytrailparkway.com/
Oldest undeveloped coastline between Florida Keys and Newfoundland.
SEE IT. WALK IT. BIKE IT. DRIVE IT. BUT MOST OF ALL DEVELOP IT.

[Mocs123]

I went to see this tree last year and don't understand why anything needs to be done to it. They might take the trail sign down and quit maintaining the trail, but as someone mentioned before, there are millions of dead trees in our forests, and I walk under hundreds of them every time I do a section of the AT, I think would be an absurd waste of money to cut it down.

BTW: I thought it was a really cool blue blaze even if the tree was dead.
http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/44583/2085243580086983979S500x500Q85.jpg

[TrippinBTM]

http://www.fundytrailparkway.com/
Oldest undeveloped coastline between Florida Keys and Newfoundland.
SEE IT. WALK IT. BIKE IT. DRIVE IT. BUT MOST OF ALL DEVELOP IT.
How can they call it undeveloped if they built a paved road through it? Just like the American Park System, "developing" our natural treasures. (Edward Abbey's book "Desert Solitaire" and Arches N.P. springs to mind).

[Pootz]

I have been to see the Wasilik Poplar a couple times. During my thru hike I took many side trails to see tree/views/whatever. There are lots of great thing just off the AT. Never understood the "I am not hiking any additional miles approach" to thru hiking.

If you like trees you owe it to your self to go out west and see the Redwoods and Sequoia's. They are unbelievable. I was out there last summer for 3 weeks to do the JMT and got hurt and got off the trail. The extra days were spent touring around seeing trees, glad I did not miss seeing them.

[awinita]

For those of you who don't know about the Wasilik Poplar, it is rumored to be the second largest poplar tree in the nation. It is a lonely reminder of the once magnificent forests that once covered the US from the East Coast to the midwest, before logging altered over 99% of all forests in the area. It is located on a blue-blaze trail off the AT at Rock Gap in North Carolina.

I have heard from a highly reliable source that land management officials are considering cutting it down, for liability issues.

I was told, and have noticed myself, that it is dying. The cause is unknown, but some scientists reportedly say it is because of the extremely high amount of visitor traffic at its base, compacting soil around the roots, carving into it, and actually stripping its bark intentionally for some reason. Who knows, maybe it is just old and tired (and lonely). It was topped by Hurrican Opal some years ago.

So now they are afriad that it may drop its branches and kill people.

Has anyone else heard about this?

Do you think they should cut it down?

Just wanted to update. The trail is no longer marked but still there. My son and I were camping at Standing Indian and hiking several trails . He wanted to see a tree like the ones in the "Valley of the Giants in north GA" (trail in the cooper creek area with and uncut forest). We decided to hike to the Wasilik Poplar and the sign is gone. I did not hike down to see if the tree was still there or not, but the trail marker has been removed as of 6/1/2010. If the tree is in as bad a condition as mentioned it may be better for the tree for everyone to forget and leave it alone. There is a valley full of these type trees maybe not as big or old but last time I camped/hiked there I counted over 30 more than 20 ft around and many Hickory and Oak almost as large in the Cooper creek area of ga.

[awinita]

I agree with you SGT. I remember hiking to Clingmans Dome as a child of only 5-6 years old . We went there every summer while camping somewhere in the Smokey's but after my Father passed in 1988 I didn't hike there for almost 10 years until, Repeating what my father shared with me I wanted to take my son there to hike in the Balsam Forrest above 6000 ft. I stood there and cried for over 10 minutes and had to explain to my 4 year old son the the forest I had brought him to see was now dead and gone. It only lives now in my heart and memories. Much like many forest my Father hiked with me in and still I find new ones to hike with my son. I know I cant bring the old ones back but time must continue forward and change. Heaven to me is waking up at dawn, above 6000ft drinking my Coffee and smoking my pipe sending my payers to my ancestors and looking DOWN on the Clouds.

[GGS2]

Concening the oldest, largest tree question, I know that the krumholtz forests in places like Labrador, in the Torngats, are both big and old. Seems funny for a tree that never pokes its head above ground level, but it fills whole gullies and ravines, and I've heard that the same tree can run for many miles. Of course it takes centuries to grow that way.

Another very old forest is on the face of the Niagara Escarpment. Again, I don't have the ages, but they rival some of the bristle cone pines out west, if I recall correctly. This one is very fragile, and in danger from rock climbers in some areas. These are stunted and small trees, but very old and very successful in their niches.

A funny krumholtz story. A party was traversing the coastal ridge line in Labrador, when suddenly one person disappeared. It took a while before he was located, deep down a gully like a crevass. Everyone else had just walked over the treetops, but he had missed a step, and plunged down to the bottom of the forest or tree. Took a bit of doing to get him back out, but he was fine but for some scratches.

[TIDE-HSV]

"Krummholz" exists everywhere in mountains just at tree line. In German, it just means "crooked" or "gnarled" wood. It's a natural adaptive reaction to extremely harsh conditions. I once had to rescue myself from a bad decision by walking on the bent tops of rhododendron to reach Dry Sluice Gap near Charlie's Bunion on the AT in the Smokies. I didn't have all that distance to fall, however. In fact, I ended up on the rhododendron because my perch on the scree slope had become too tenuous...

[Blue Jay]

Oh no, that's just too simple of an answer, it just HAS to be somebody's fault.:-?

Yes, feral cats.

[mudhead]

I blame it on that "Girls Gone Wild With Chainsaws" movie.

Always sad when an old tree goes.

[Pedaling Fool]

You know Wookie, just yesterday I was looking at the forest as I stood there in the rain. I stood there for about half of an hour just marveling at how beautiful the place was in the rain with all the mist. And it was probably a place that most hikers would just consider a part of the green tunnel - a place to get to somewhere else like the falls or something. But I was just standing there waiting, and marveling at the big trees in that area. And I know they can't be any more than about 70 years old in that area - the Chestnuts once dominated that place. But after they left, something else took hold and made a new - yet different forest. Then I think of the top of the ridge where I was working the day before, pine trees dying up there from whatever it is killing them this time, but other plants and trees are making a new forest that will also someday take over. I read somewhere that the "balance of nature" is myth, that things always change and there is no way to really preserve something wild, just protect it. Then I thought of this post you made a few days ago.
I like this post best.


I personally would like to see it cut down so we can examine its rings...:eek::D;)




No reply necessary:sun