NH25 to East B. Hill Rd., ME Itinerary Review and Questions

[FarmerChef]

So I'm putting way more planning into our White Mountains section hike than any of the other sections by far. This one has more logistical support, more bailout options, more risk, more $$, more everything! It's funny to me that after hiking through a blizzard, a tropical storm, searing heat and freezing cold, and all over 3/5ths of the trail I am still (rightly so, I believe) reasonably nervous about hiking the Whites. Here's my first swag at an itinerary. Below that is a question or two of a general nature. If you have experience in this section, would you mind giving me feedback on where I'm off the mark, under or overzealous or headed to a night's stay in a really great or crappy campsite? I would also appreciate a few answers to my other questions if possible.

Some prerequisites:

1. Hikers in my group are me, my wife, and 3 of my kids (ages 13 - 8) and our Alaskan Husky, all of whom will have completed the AT from VT down to Erwin, TN by this point. They are experienced in a variety of terrain and conditions, including semi-technical climbing (even the dog)
2. We are travelling with friends who will bail us off the trail at certain road crossings so we can carry less food and lighten our load. Yes, we will be spending the night off trail on those nights. This is tough hiking and I want to make this an enjoyable experience for the kids in whatever ways I can that don't break the bank (hut stays at $90 a head...:eek:)
3. My itinerary tries to maximize the pickup points without shorting the mileage or extending it too bad.
4. If we hit bad weather, we are prepared to turn back, push forward or wait it out depending on what the safest choice is. We are not married to our schedule or a set stopping point for each day or the section as a whole.
5. We are used to 20 mile days as an average. I'm expecting much less for this section, around 14mpd average. What I don't know yet is where we can turn on the afterburners and where we should be thrilled with 5 miles for the day. Wildcat, Moosilauke (especially north end), and Mahoosuc Notch and Arm come to mind. Others?

Itinerary:



Day
Section
Mileage
Evening End Point


Saturday
NH25 to Beaver Brook Shelter
8.0
Camp


Sunday
Beaver Brook to Franconia Notch
17.8
Pickup


Monday
Franconia Notch to Guyot Campsite
15.8
Camp


Tuesday
Guyot to Crawford Notch (US 302)
11.9
Pickup


Wednesday
Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path
16.7
Camp


Thursday
Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16)
9.3
Pickup


Friday
Pinkham Notch to Gorham
21.1
Pickup


Saturday
Gorham to Carlo Col Shelter
17.0
Camp


Sunday
Carlo Col to Grafton Notch (ME 26)
14.1
Pickup


Monday
Grafton Notch to East B Hill Rd.
10.3
Home




And some questions:

1. Are there free parking areas at each of the notches or does it require a permit?
2. Weather permitting, what are the best peaks for sunrise?
3. Are there any good climbs that can be done in the dark to get to the summit for sunrise from any of the locations we'll be starting from? How about if we changed our itinerary slightly?
4. Any other questions I should be asking?

Thanks in advance for your replies. I really want this to be a memorable and, above all, safe hike.

[Kerosene]

A lot of questions here, FarmerChef, but I'll try to address some of them with a bit of advice. I did this section in Sept 2006 (NH-25A to NH-16) and Sept 2012 (NH-16 to ME-4/Rangeley).
.
First, forget about your 20 mile days. You may be able to cover 14 given the length of a day, but not on average, especially for your 8 (or 18?)-year old. Figure your hiking pace will be a full mile an hour slower than what you've averaged south of here. I know, hard to believe, but the rocks, roots and wetness really slow things down, along with elevation change in many cases. I rarely found a section in the Whites where I felt I could maintain a good (2.7+ mph) pace except north of Zealand Hut to Crawford Notch; 4-5 miles north of Gorham; and Speck Pond Shelter to East B Hill Road.
.
Day 2 is overly aggressive. I'd cap it at Eliza Brook Shelter and tackle the climb of South Kinsman the next morning, especially if it's wet. The descent of Moosilaukee is incredibly steep; to the point that I burned out my quads causing knee pain the rest of my hike. The ridge walk to Eliza Brook is incredibly rooty. Add another day to get to Franconia Notch, or at least be prepared to be hiking after dark.
.
I'd shorten your Day 3 itinerary to stop at Garfield Ridge Campsite, where you can catch the sunrise from atop Garfield Mtn. the next morning. That would leave you 17.4 to Crawford Notch, but the last 5 miles are much easier than what you will have hiked up to that point. There is a parking lot there I recall.
.
You'll have a big climb out of Crawford Notch up Webster Cliffs, but I actually enjoyed that climb and got some great pictures when the clouds moved off. If the weather is nice, then you actually might want to shorten your mileage as you're walking above treeline, but your non-reservations options are somewhat limited. In addition, the descent of Madison is nothing to scoff at, especially if it's wet or windy. I had problems on a calm evening getting down in one piece.
.
Pinkham Notch to Gorham is a big day. By that point you'll know who can handle what. It is certainly possible to slackpack in a day, but be prepared to finish in the dark. Certainly it would be easier to split it up, perhaps with a stealth camp atop Carter Dome.
.
Your second-to-last day is also aggressive when you consider that you'll slow down below 1.0 mph through Mahoosuc Notch and then up very steep Mahoosuc Arm.
.
Certainly your itinerary isn't impossible to achieve, but the fact that you're concerned about it and you are hiking with kids makes me think that you won't keep to this agenda without hurting someone physically or emotionally. Assuming you have a limited hiking window, I would suggest that you recalibrate to end in Gorham instead of Andover.
.
Other peaks you might be able to catch a sunrise/sunset from: Moosilaukee (although you will be past the summit), Mt. Liberty, and Mt. Madison come to mind
.
Note that Verizon cell phone reception is surprisingly good north of Pinkham Notch, at least well into Maine. It's been 7 years since I did the Whites so I'm outdated there.

[FarmerChef]

A lot of questions here, FarmerChef, but I'll try to address some of them with a bit of advice. I did this section in Sept 2006 (NH-25A to NH-16) and Sept 2012 (NH-16 to ME-4/Rangeley).
.
First, forget about your 20 mile days. You may be able to cover 14 given the length of a day, but not on average, especially for your 8 (or 18?)-year old. Figure your hiking pace will be a full mile an hour slower than what you've averaged south of here. I know, hard to believe, but the rocks, roots and wetness really slow things down, along with elevation change in many cases. I rarely found a section in the Whites where I felt I could maintain a good (2.7+ mph) pace except north of Zealand Hut to Crawford Notch; 4-5 miles north of Gorham; and Speck Pond Shelter to East B Hill Road.
.
Day 2 is overly aggressive. I'd cap it at Eliza Brook Shelter and tackle the climb of South Kinsman the next morning, especially if it's wet. The descent of Moosilaukee is incredibly steep; to the point that I burned out my quads causing knee pain the rest of my hike. The ridge walk to Eliza Brook is incredibly rooty. Add another day to get to Franconia Notch, or at least be prepared to be hiking after dark.
.
I'd shorten your Day 3 itinerary to stop at Garfield Ridge Campsite, where you can catch the sunrise from atop Garfield Mtn. the next morning. That would leave you 17.4 to Crawford Notch, but the last 5 miles are much easier than what you will have hiked up to that point. There is a parking lot there I recall.
.
You'll have a big climb out of Crawford Notch up Webster Cliffs, but I actually enjoyed that climb and got some great pictures when the clouds moved off. If the weather is nice, then you actually might want to shorten your mileage as you're walking above treeline, but your non-reservations options are somewhat limited. In addition, the descent of Madison is nothing to scoff at, especially if it's wet or windy. I had problems on a calm evening getting down in one piece.
.
Pinkham Notch to Gorham is a big day. By that point you'll know who can handle what. It is certainly possible to slackpack in a day, but be prepared to finish in the dark. Certainly it would be easier to split it up, perhaps with a stealth camp atop Carter Dome.
.
Your second-to-last day is also aggressive when you consider that you'll slow down below 1.0 mph through Mahoosuc Notch and then up very steep Mahoosuc Arm.
.
Certainly your itinerary isn't impossible to achieve, but the fact that you're concerned about it and you are hiking with kids makes me think that you won't keep to this agenda without hurting someone physically or emotionally. Assuming you have a limited hiking window, I would suggest that you recalibrate to end in Gorham instead of Andover.
.
Other peaks you might be able to catch a sunrise/sunset from: Moosilaukee (although you will be past the summit), Mt. Liberty, and Mt. Madison come to mind
.
Note that Verizon cell phone reception is surprisingly good north of Pinkham Notch, at least well into Maine. It's been 7 years since I did the Whites so I'm outdated there.

Great feedback, Kerosene. I've incorporated your advice regarding Eliza Brook and Garfield Ridge and updated my notes for the sunrises and points of caution. I was a bit worried that 17 miles over Moosilauke up to GR might be a bit much from what I read. Either way, we'll play that day by ear.

My son is 8 and has the energy of the sun. On even 25 mile days he is still bursting with energy while the rest of us are dog tired rolling into camp :) This is the only activity that seems to put a dent in his inexhaustible energy. No worries there.

With regard to the climb out of Crawford Notch, Israel Path was the first campsite I could find. There is another at Madison Spring Hut via the Valley Way Trail that I was considering if we had time. It's not quite as far off the trail. Was there something earlier up Washington you were thinking of?

Finally, second to last day is completely flexible. We could stop at the campsite at the north end of the notch or continue up to Speck Pond if we've still got daylight and wind in our sails. Then make the last day a bit longer or we can just hike to Grafton notch and grab a shuttle up to our end point. I can even add an extra day if need be so I'm not sweating the timetable for the itinerary too much. I figure the notch is going to be a real treat for the kids. They'll really enjoy crawling, crabbing, climbing, squeezing their way around the boulders. Me and Momma Bear, maybe not quite as much...

[Slo-go'en]

I can understand your not wanting to shell out the big bucks for AMC campsites and huts. However, you apparently have no clue as to the level of difficulty that whole streach of trail is. And with 3 kids and a dog? OMG! I'd be suprised if you can even come close to a 1 mph average pace. (BTW, Gorham to Grafton notch is typically a 5 day hike by it's self for mear mortals and you will need ropes and a harness to get the dog through some sections. In fact, I would not recommend taking a dog on that streach at all)

Check out these rebarb ladders you need to climp up Goose eye!
22336

[FarmerChef]

I can understand your not wanting to shell out the big bucks for AMC campsites and huts. However, you apparently have no clue as to the level of difficulty that whole streach of trail is. And with 3 kids and a dog? OMG! I'd be suprised if you can even come close to a 1 mph average pace. (BTW, Gorham to Grafton notch is typically a 5 day hike by it's self for mear mortals and you will need ropes and a harness to get the dog through some sections. In fact, I would not recommend taking a dog on that streach at all)

Check out these rebarb ladders you need to climp up Goose eye!
22336

I understand your concern, Slo. It is a response we get from a lot of people on the trail, but they usually have the advantage of seeing the kids in action. They have earned the respect of the thrus they have kept pace with and I am supremely confident in their ability to handle whatever the trail throws at them. Thanks for the tip on Gorham to Grafton Notch. We have both rope and a harness for the dog so we're prepared for that. If it takes longer, like I said above, we'll stop at the end of the notch. Heck, if we don't even make it that far that day we'll stop before the notch. Our itinerary is very flexible. :)

I'm also not at all opposed to paying to stay at the campsites/shelters. Sorry if I've given that impression. I understand what it takes to maintain the trail and I respect the countless hours and resources that are put into it every year.

What I'm looking for here is an honest assessment of the feasibility of the sections as indicated with the understanding that I and my family are accustomed to big miles, fully expecting that we will slow down dramatically in the whites. I've referenced Balls and Sunshine's journal (who we kept pace with for a few days last year) as a starting point as well as that of other hikers with our typical daily mileage and these distances appear doable. But I realize I cannot get all the information I need from topo maps, AWOL's guide and trail journals. Not like I can get from folks here. WB has been a big help in past sections to help us maximize our enjoyment of the section. That's all I'm looking for here.

[Mountain Mike]

Crawford Notch Parking is in a State park so no parking permits required. Most of the others you mentioned are on FS land so you will need a permit. As mentioned above your plan sounds pretty ambitious. Beyond what most thru hikers do. Only you know what you & your family can do. Just remember climbs in the Whites are often "Climbs" requiring use of hands & the same with descents. There are several exposed ridge walks that will seriously slow you down in bad weather. I would suggest you invest in a larger map that shows a larger are & bail out routes if you run into bad weather. Also I would keep the weather in mind & maybe consider bouncing around depending on it. Franconia & Presidential ridges are awesome in nice weather & can be deadly in bad weather. 22341223422234322344

[FarmerChef]

Crawford Notch Parking is in a State park so no parking permits required. Most of the others you mentioned are on FS land so you will need a permit. As mentioned above your plan sounds pretty ambitious. Beyond what most thru hikers do. Only you know what you & your family can do. Just remember climbs in the Whites are often "Climbs" requiring use of hands & the same with descents. There are several exposed ridge walks that will seriously slow you down in bad weather. I would suggest you invest in a larger map that shows a larger are & bail out routes if you run into bad weather. Also I would keep the weather in mind & maybe consider bouncing around depending on it. Franconia & Presidential ridges are awesome in nice weather & can be deadly in bad weather. 22341223422234322344

Great point on bouncing around, Mike. That's exactly what we plan to do if weather gets bad. We can cherry pick the nicer sections within the dropoff points (for as long as we have our friends/shuttle). And if it's a total wash we can always come back to finish a section later. No worries. Thanks for the tips and love the pics. Can't wait!

[Mountain Mike]

I would also suggest adding a day to the Mahosics & end at Grafton Notch. Of the six thru hikers I was with going through the notch I was the fastest at 1.5 hrs for the mile. The kids will love the climbing & crawling through it. Right after it you face the Arm requiring climbing up using roots & saplings as handholds. If you want some places to camp on your pickup night let me know & I can suggest a few.

[Slo-go'en]

I suspect you will be re-addressing your plans about half way through the first day. Realistically, you need to cut the total trip distance you expect to do in half. Just keep that in mind as you set out so it isn't a suprise.

[FarmerChef]

I suspect you will be re-addressing your plans about half way through the first day. Realistically, you need to cut the total trip distance you expect to do in half. Just keep that in mind as you set out so it isn't a suprise.

Thanks. We will definitely keep that in mind.

[FarmerChef]

Let me also ask this if I may: would it be better to do Pinkham Notch to Crawford Notch SOBO or NOBO? Weather may play a factor in what will be a 2 or 3 day hike through that section and if there is a better option of the two I can time when we hit Mt. Washington a bit better (rather than guaranteed on the first day).

[Kerosene]

Let me also ask this if I may: would it be better to do Pinkham Notch to Crawford Notch SOBO or NOBO? Weather may play a factor in what will be a 2 or 3 day hike through that section and if there is a better option of the two I can time when we hit Mt. Washington a bit better (rather than guaranteed on the first day).My opinion is that it would be easier to ascend Osgood Ridge to Mt. Madison in the rain rather than descend. It was dry on my descent and I still had problems keeping my footing secure. Of course, the descent down to Crawford Notch will be a bit hairy, but I think I'd still make that choice.

[fredmugs]

I've done the 27.7 miles form Franconia to Crawford Notch in a day and I would NOT attempt Pinkham Notch to Gorham. Carter Notch is brutal.

[Tom Murphy]

Wow, good luck with this. You will know early in the trip if ithe schedule has any chance.

Please update the post after the trip. It will be an interesting read.

[Mountain Mike]

Another thing to keep in mind for Gorham to Pinkham is going SOBO. If it gets late, or you are dragging you could use the ski lift for a ride down & back up the next day, but be sure to check hours of operation.

[hikerboy57]

Another thing to keep in mind for Gorham to Pinkham is going SOBO. If it gets late, or you are dragging you could use the ski lift for a ride down & back up the next day, but be sure to check hours of operation.
mike whats the name of the trail that runs from carter notch to rte2?
its another alternative if they dont want to climb out of carter notch and over the wildcats

[Mountain Mike]

19 mile trail? Relatively gentle.

[hikerboy57]

19 mile trail? Relatively gentle.
yup thats the one, an easy hike out if need be

[Mountain Mike]

19 mile Brook Trail & it goes to Rt 16 by Pinkham. A few miles north is the Cater Dome Trail from Zeta pass that runs into it.

[Meriadoc]

Love it! Yes, it is ambitious but it does sound like you have enough experience to either complete it as planned or modify as necessary. And the Whites are indeed unpredictable.

Some thoughts for you:
(1) I would change the split of Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch. The southern section is far more difficult. For 6 miles from Zealand Falls hut to just past the Ethan Pond campsite you'll fly - the terrain is fairly flat and easy. So I would split it Franconia to Garfield and Garfield to Crawford.
(2) Pinkham Notch to Gorham would be a rough day. In addition to stealth camping on Carter Dome to split it up, you can stealth camp on Mt Hight with a great view of the presidentials stretched out against the sunset.
(3) The most punishing terrain, especially when it is this steep, is going down. It's far easier to get hurt going down than going up. I wouldn't descend Moosilauke or Madison at the end of a long day.
(4) There is an incredible amount of exposed rock - even if your dog is good for 20+ mile days on trail, I would bring something for your Alaskan Husky's paws.


Have fun and come back and tell us about it! :)

[Meriadoc]

One more thought:
Beaver Brook to Franconia is another big day. I have heard varying reports from NOBOs, I think it must be easier NOBO, so that's good. It rained when I went through SOBO and it was one of the most treacherous stretches of trail I have ever hiked. The rocks were simply slippery and difficult even though the elevation change was not a lot. And for the record, I truly enjoyed the rocks in PA ;P.

[peakbagger]

Day Section Mileage Evening End Point
Saturday NH25 to Beaver Brook Shelter 8.0 Camp
Sunday Beaver Brook to Franconia Notch 17.8 Pickup (Major Butt Kicker especially after the day before 12 hours plus )
Monday Franconia Notch to Guyot Campsite 15.8 Camp (major butt kicker 12 hours plus, very weather dependent due to exposed ridge )
Tuesday Guyot to Crawford Notch (US 302) 11.9 Pickup (not bad)
Wednesday Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path 16.7 Camp (Major butt Kicker, possibly consider Jewell trail campsite, but many will have to use Edmonds Path 10 to 12 hours, major exposure to weather. Alternatively consider slackpacking from Caps ridge Trail to Crawford, Then next day slackpack Caps ridge to Pinkham )
Thursday Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16) 9.3 Pickup
Friday Pinkham Notch to Gorham 21.1 Pickup (major butt kicker lots of steep ups and downs, many thru hikers slackpack this stretch)
Saturday Gorham to Carlo Col Shelter 17.0 Camp ( A couple of major steep ups and downs near the end of the day)
Sunday Carlo Col to Grafton Notch (ME 26) 14.1 Pickup (mahoosuc Arm will be a killer and the steep drop off Speck will be brutal at the end of the day)
Monday Grafton Notch to East B Hill Rd. 10.3 Home (long but an okay last day).

Realistically, it looks like you are setting up 15 days of hiking in a 10 day schedule. Thru hikers with 3 or 4 months under their belts can probably do this schedule but they will miss a lot. I would suggest stopping at Gorham and cutting back your miles every day.

[FarmerChef]

Love it! Yes, it is ambitious but it does sound like you have enough experience to either complete it as planned or modify as necessary. And the Whites are indeed unpredictable.

Some thoughts for you:
(1) I would change the split of Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch. The southern section is far more difficult. For 6 miles from Zealand Falls hut to just past the Ethan Pond campsite you'll fly - the terrain is fairly flat and easy. So I would split it Franconia to Garfield and Garfield to Crawford.
(2) Pinkham Notch to Gorham would be a rough day. In addition to stealth camping on Carter Dome to split it up, you can stealth camp on Mt Hight with a great view of the presidentials stretched out against the sunset.
(3) The most punishing terrain, especially when it is this steep, is going down. It's far easier to get hurt going down than going up. I wouldn't descend Moosilauke or Madison at the end of a long day.
(4) There is an incredible amount of exposed rock - even if your dog is good for 20+ mile days on trail, I would bring something for your Alaskan Husky's paws.


Have fun and come back and tell us about it! :)

Thanks for the feedback, Meri.
1 = yes.
2. I'm fully prepared to see how we're doing around lunchtime and figure out where to spend the night there. It is a long, long shot that we would do that whole section in one day. Doable but probably not pleasant to say the least.
3. Don't plan to do either of those things. I would rather go up all day long than go steeply down. I assume that poles are more of a hindrance than a help here?
4. Oh yes. Been there. We have pad balm, styptic powder and booties. If all else fails, she can stay down in the valley with our friends for the remainder of the trip.


Day Section Mileage Evening End Point
Saturday NH25 to Beaver Brook Shelter 8.0 Camp
Sunday Beaver Brook to Franconia Notch 17.8 Pickup (Major Butt Kicker especially after the day before 12 hours plus )
Monday Franconia Notch to Guyot Campsite 15.8 Camp (major butt kicker 12 hours plus, very weather dependent due to exposed ridge )
Tuesday Guyot to Crawford Notch (US 302) 11.9 Pickup (not bad)
Wednesday Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path 16.7 Camp (Major butt Kicker, possibly consider Jewell trail campsite, but many will have to use Edmonds Path 10 to 12 hours, major exposure to weather. Alternatively consider slackpacking from Caps ridge Trail to Crawford, Then next day slackpack Caps ridge to Pinkham )
Thursday Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16) 9.3 Pickup
Friday Pinkham Notch to Gorham 21.1 Pickup (major butt kicker lots of steep ups and downs, many thru hikers slackpack this stretch)
Saturday Gorham to Carlo Col Shelter 17.0 Camp ( A couple of major steep ups and downs near the end of the day)
Sunday Carlo Col to Grafton Notch (ME 26) 14.1 Pickup (mahoosuc Arm will be a killer and the steep drop off Speck will be brutal at the end of the day)
Monday Grafton Notch to East B Hill Rd. 10.3 Home (long but an okay last day).

Realistically, it looks like you are setting up 15 days of hiking in a 10 day schedule. Thru hikers with 3 or 4 months under their belts can probably do this schedule but they will miss a lot. I would suggest stopping at Gorham and cutting back your miles every day.

Thanks for the 15 to 10 ratio, PB. I was trying to understand what the hesitation was after reading other journals of folks with an itinerary like mine. It makes sense. We are definitely NOT trying to set a speed record and we DO want to stop and smell the roses from time to time. :)

[FarmerChef]

Here's my revised itinerary with an optional extra day to get out to a trailhead (otherwise, we would just stop in Gorham as recommended). We'll know how we'll we're doing after a couple of days and I'll have a good idea of how far we'll make it (weather permitting).



Friday
NH25 to Kinsman Notch
9.5


Saturday
Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch
16.3


Sunday
Franconia Notch to Garfield Ridge Campsite
10.3


Monday
Garfield Ridge to Crawford Notch (US 302)
17.4


Tuesday
Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path
16.7


Wednesday
Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16)
9.3


Thursday
Pinkham Notch to Imp Campsite
13.1


Friday
Imp to Gorham
8.0


Saturday
Gorham to Gentian Pond Campsite
11.8


Sunday
Gentian Pond Campsite to Full Goose Shelter
9.6


Monday?
Full Goose to ME26
9.7

[FarmerChef]

I should mention that we will be slacking Moosilauke as well as Kinsman to Franconia and then getting picked up every other day from that point until Gorham. If we choose to do Pinkham to Gorham we would be slacking that day as well. Our pack weights will be in the mid to upper teens for the adults and around 10 pounds for the older kids, including food and water. My son's pack is around 6 pounds with water (he doesn't carry food yet).

We will totally keep a daily log and, time/energy permitting, will log it daily to our TJ journal.

[hikerboy57]

I still think your schedule is somewhat ambitious I try not to plan for anything more than 12 miles when I'm in the whites

[Slo-go'en]

All I can say is good luck! Just out of curiosity, when do you plan to take your family on this death march?

[FarmerChef]

All I can say is good luck! Just out of curiosity, when do you plan to take your family on this death march?

I'm feeling the love, Slo ;) August. Why?

[FarmerChef]

I still think your schedule is somewhat ambitious I try not to plan for anything more than 12 miles when I'm in the whites

We're flexible. If 12 is all we can do then so be it. No worries either way :)

[Kerosene]

Friday

NH25 to Kinsman Notch

9.5



Saturday

Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch

16.3



Sunday

Franconia Notch to Garfield Ridge Campsite

10.3



Monday

Garfield Ridge to Crawford Notch (US 302)

17.4



Tuesday

Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path

16.7



Wednesday

Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16)

9.3



Thursday

Pinkham Notch to Imp Campsite

13.1



Friday

Imp to Gorham

8.0



Saturday

Gorham to Gentian Pond Campsite

11.8



Sunday

Gentian Pond Campsite to Full Goose Shelter

9.6



Monday?

Full Goose to ME26

9.7



I see this as a much more reasonable itinerary, especially if you're slacking from Kinsman to Franconia (although it will still be a long day given that you really don't hit the ruggedness of the Whites until Kinsman Ridge). I'd sign up for it!

[peakbagger]

Friday NH25 to Kinsman Notch 9.5 - Not a bad day slackpacking, Real steep down Beaver Brook trail (You will learn about pin steps and how making them unevenly spaced adds to the challenge)
Saturday Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch 16.3 - Still a major Butt kicker even if you slackpack If you have to you can break it up and come out on Reel Brook trail or stay at Eliza Brook Shelter
Sunday Franconia Notch to Garfield Ridge Campsite 10.3 Spectacular day, lots of ups and downs and rocks
Monday Garfield Ridge to Crawford Notch (US 302) 17.4 The twinway is the only real nasty uphill stretch but its a long way from Zealand to 302 (easy walking)
Tuesday Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path 16.7 Butt kicker (how about having them meet you at the Mt Washington Summit?)
Wednesday Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16) 9.3 (If you started at Summit this would be longer but might balance things out a bit
Thursday Pinkham Notch to Imp Campsite 13.1
Friday Imp to Gorham 8.0
Saturday Gorham to Gentian Pond Campsite 11.8 (if you need to make up a day, its an easy walk out from Gentian Pond to the North Road in Shelburne via Austin Brook Trail)
Sunday Gentian Pond Campsite to Full Goose Shelter 9.6 (Try to avoid finishing your hike by going to Success Pond Road, its closed on one end and is a very long slow bumpy dusty ride both in and out, plan on 25 MPH ). You can take the Wright Trail down off Goose Eye to the Bull Branch Road but who ever is picking you up will need detailed directions as its way in on a dirt road.
Monday? Full Goose to ME26 9.7

Do yourself a favor start as early as you can in the AM. the weather builds up in the afternoon. You really don't have any "easy days until possibly Gorham to Gentian so pacing yourselves will be the challenge.

[FarmerChef]

Friday NH25 to Kinsman Notch 9.5 - Not a bad day slackpacking, Real steep down Beaver Brook trail (You will learn about pin steps and how making them unevenly spaced adds to the challenge)
Saturday Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch 16.3 - Still a major Butt kicker even if you slackpack If you have to you can break it up and come out on Reel Brook trail or stay at Eliza Brook Shelter
Sunday Franconia Notch to Garfield Ridge Campsite 10.3 Spectacular day, lots of ups and downs and rocks
Monday Garfield Ridge to Crawford Notch (US 302) 17.4 The twinway is the only real nasty uphill stretch but its a long way from Zealand to 302 (easy walking)
Tuesday Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path 16.7 Butt kicker (how about having them meet you at the Mt Washington Summit?)
Wednesday Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16) 9.3 (If you started at Summit this would be longer but might balance things out a bit
Thursday Pinkham Notch to Imp Campsite 13.1
Friday Imp to Gorham 8.0
Saturday Gorham to Gentian Pond Campsite 11.8 (if you need to make up a day, its an easy walk out from Gentian Pond to the North Road in Shelburne via Austin Brook Trail)
Sunday Gentian Pond Campsite to Full Goose Shelter 9.6 (Try to avoid finishing your hike by going to Success Pond Road, its closed on one end and is a very long slow bumpy dusty ride both in and out, plan on 25 MPH ). You can take the Wright Trail down off Goose Eye to the Bull Branch Road but who ever is picking you up will need detailed directions as its way in on a dirt road.
Monday? Full Goose to ME26 9.7

Do yourself a favor start as early as you can in the AM. the weather builds up in the afternoon. You really don't have any "easy days until possibly Gorham to Gentian so pacing yourselves will be the challenge.

Lots of good tips in there PB. Thanks! We'll be prepared to camp the last 2-3 days (depending on the schedule). No pickup there so we can stay on the trail as long as we need to and then make camp at the closest shelter/campsite. As for going in the AM, I plan to get on trail at first light as you recommend. If the day will have all day rain, we'll plan to nero/zero.

[TEXMAN]

I know the initial reaction to the HUTS is sticker shock but you are missing one of the enjoyable experiences of the Whites by not staying in one ...After a hard climb it is great to get a cooked meal served to you,a dry place to sleep and a hearty breakfast to start out the next day ...as well as the nature and environmental talks that they have each night ....just seeing the college kids in action , doing skits for the group, explaining their backgrounds and what they expect in the future etc,... is inspirational ( they carry 100 lbs of food up to the huts on their backs) and could prove to be a real interest to the kids. After spending the money to get to NH and the trail staying atahut during your trip is money well spent ....I took my 2 grandsons to Lonesome Lake hut last year and plan on hiking up to Greenleaf this year .....

[Driver8]

Here's my revised itinerary with an optional extra day to get out to a trailhead (otherwise, we would just stop in Gorham as recommended). We'll know how we'll we're doing after a couple of days and I'll have a good idea of how far we'll make it (weather permitting).



Friday
NH25 to Kinsman Notch
9.5


Saturday
Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch
16.3


Sunday
Franconia Notch to Garfield Ridge Campsite
10.3


Monday
Garfield Ridge to Crawford Notch (US 302)
17.4


Tuesday
Crawford Notch to Israel Ridge Path
16.7


Wednesday
Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch (NH16)
9.3


Thursday
Pinkham Notch to Imp Campsite
13.1


Friday
Imp to Gorham
8.0


Saturday
Gorham to Gentian Pond Campsite
11.8


Sunday
Gentian Pond Campsite to Full Goose Shelter
9.6


Monday?
Full Goose to ME26
9.7




This looks more reasonable to me, Farmer, given what you've shared about your family's pace and ability. Be aware that the sunrise view from Beaver Brook Shelter is all-world on a nice morning, as Coach Lou and I were witness to Sunday.

Also, be advised that you start right off Rt. 25 NOBO with a ford of Oliverian Brook, which is substantial. It was nice for me at the end of a long day Sunday, my feet, ankles and knees loved it. Probably not a bonus to start the day, though. It is marked as bypassable in high water, via a nearby roadwalk. The mile-and-a-quarter of trail from there north is nice enough but totally forgettable. If you're sectioning with a view to doing the complete trail, it's there to be done. If not, I'd say you wouldn't miss or mourn the mile-and-a-half between 25 and the parking area on Sanatorium Road.

Other random notes:

* In a pinch, there's stealth camping about a mile west of the A.T. on the Jewell Trail about 1.5 mi north of Mt. Washington. It's just below tree-line and obvious on the right (north) side of trail.

* Crawford Path is easy to get down from north of Pierce, Edmands Path isn't bad on north side of Eisenhower - right near where Crawford intersects with Eisenhower Loop.
* The Dry River Wilderness on the southeast side of the southern Presi's is in disuse after Irene destroyed much of the Dry River Trail, but there are likely some stealthing options for you there, too.
* Ammo Ravine Trail down from Lakes hut is very steep and doesn't have much for steathing until you're down over 1560' at Gem Pool. Gorgeous trail, but not the option for stealthing, and I'd bet that Dry River Trail on the other side of the ridge, which ascends the headwall of Oakes Gulf, is similarly rugged if not moreso, having eyeballed that terrain though not traversed it.

* Nauman Tentsite is right next to Mitzpah Hut, which I personally love. Ann, the caretaker there, is A+.

* One option for a stopover on the Kinsman to Franconia stretch is Kinsman Pond, as well. I hear it's beautiful - Coach Lou was just there.

Hope you have a great hike. I might be up in the Whites during that time for a weekend or a day. Would be nice to cross paths with you.

[Slo-go'en]

Farmerchef is in a bit of a bind. He's hiking as a family of 5 plus a dog, so it could potentualy cost $600 a night for an AMC hut and I don't think dogs are allowed in the huts. But then, if he were going to use the huts, it would be worth joining the AMC for a year to get the membership discount.

[Driver8]

PS: One way you could change Oliverian Brook from an annoyance to a treat, while making Beaver Brook Trail up from K Notch a steep, treacherous and beautiful climb at the beginning of the day instead of a knee crushing hazard at day's end would be to do it SOBO and Coach and I just did. I'd highly recommend that, since you're planning on doing a drop-off and pick-up deal, anyway. You'll meet a lot of hikers you'll end up hiking much of the rest of the trip with, if not all of it. O Brook will be a bit of a celebration for you, rather than a PITA.

[Driver8]

PS: Meant to say "*as* Coach and I just did."

[FarmerChef]

This looks more reasonable to me, Farmer, given what you've shared about your family's pace and ability. Be aware that the sunrise view from Beaver Brook Shelter is all-world on a nice morning, as Coach Lou and I were witness to Sunday.

Also, be advised that you start right off Rt. 25 NOBO with a ford of Oliverian Brook, which is substantial. It was nice for me at the end of a long day Sunday, my feet, ankles and knees loved it. Probably not a bonus to start the day, though. It is marked as bypassable in high water, via a nearby roadwalk. The mile-and-a-quarter of trail from there north is nice enough but totally forgettable. If you're sectioning with a view to doing the complete trail, it's there to be done. If not, I'd say you wouldn't miss or mourn the mile-and-a-half between 25 and the parking area on Sanatorium Road.

Other random notes:

* In a pinch, there's stealth camping about a mile west of the A.T. on the Jewell Trail about 1.5 mi north of Mt. Washington. It's just below tree-line and obvious on the right (north) side of trail.

* Crawford Path is easy to get down from north of Pierce, Edmands Path isn't bad on north side of Eisenhower - right near where Crawford intersects with Eisenhower Loop.
* The Dry River Wilderness on the southeast side of the southern Presi's is in disuse after Irene destroyed much of the Dry River Trail, but there are likely some stealthing options for you there, too.
* Ammo Ravine Trail down from Lakes hut is very steep and doesn't have much for steathing until you're down over 1560' at Gem Pool. Gorgeous trail, but not the option for stealthing, and I'd bet that Dry River Trail on the other side of the ridge, which ascends the headwall of Oakes Gulf, is similarly rugged if not moreso, having eyeballed that terrain though not traversed it.

* Nauman Tentsite is right next to Mitzpah Hut, which I personally love. Ann, the caretaker there, is A+.

* One option for a stopover on the Kinsman to Franconia stretch is Kinsman Pond, as well. I hear it's beautiful - Coach Lou was just there.

Hope you have a great hike. I might be up in the Whites during that time for a weekend or a day. Would be nice to cross paths with you.

Thanks for those tidbits of intel. Very helpful! Nauman is definitely on our list for a stop. Glad to hear there is such a great caretaker there! And we'll definitely consider flip-flopping the section to Oliveria Brook. I'm sure we'd love to cool our heals in that after a long day as opposed to the other way around. That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! Thanks!!

As for meeting you on the trail, hopefully it works out. We'll be hard to miss :) I'd love to meet some WBers up in the Whites.

[Driver8]

Thanks for those tidbits of intel. Very helpful! Nauman is definitely on our list for a stop. Glad to hear there is such a great caretaker there! And we'll definitely consider flip-flopping the section to Oliveria Brook. I'm sure we'd love to cool our heals in that after a long day as opposed to the other way around. That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! Thanks!!

As for meeting you on the trail, hopefully it works out. We'll be hard to miss :) I'd love to meet some WBers up in the Whites.

Just to be clear, Ann is the caretaker at the hut. Not sure how the running of Nauman and the hut is allocated - might both be down to her, they are in the same clearing. In any event, that hut's Croo is friendly and Ann's awesome and gracious enough that I sent a commendation in for her to AMC after my stay there in early May.

[jeffmeh]

Thanks for those tidbits of intel. Very helpful! Nauman is definitely on our list for a stop. Glad to hear there is such a great caretaker there! And we'll definitely consider flip-flopping the section to Oliveria Brook. I'm sure we'd love to cool our heals in that after a long day as opposed to the other way around. That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! Thanks!!

As for meeting you on the trail, hopefully it works out. We'll be hard to miss :) I'd love to meet some WBers up in the Whites.

I may have missed it, but when will this heralded trip take place? I will be doing some day trips, and might be able to influence the itinerary to witness this spectacle. PM me if you wish. :)

[jeffmeh]

Just to be clear, Ann is the caretaker at the hut. Not sure how the running of Nauman and the hut is allocated - might both be down to her, they are in the same clearing. In any event, that hut's Croo is friendly and Ann's awesome and gracious enough that I sent a commendation in for her to AMC after my stay there in early May.

I think there are separate caretakers at Nauman and Mizpah. At least it appeared that way when we were at Nauman last year. On the other hand, the thunderstorms were so severe it was a bit difficult to tell.

[Driver8]

Farmer:

You asked about trekking poles on the rough descents. I find them helpful more often than not, A problem with the rough and rocky stuff, of course, is losing your balance. Easier to maintain it with two more contact points with the ground. Alleviates the impact on feat, ankles and knees on some of the 2-5 foot downs you have to negotiate, those you don't just butt-slide down. :D

[FarmerChef]

Farmer:

You asked about trekking poles on the rough descents. I find them helpful more often than not, A problem with the rough and rocky stuff, of course, is losing your balance. Easier to maintain it with two more contact points with the ground. Alleviates the impact on feat, ankles and knees on some of the 2-5 foot downs you have to negotiate, those you don't just butt-slide down. :D

Ok. That's great to know. I was a bit worried about pole vaulting down the mountainside :D I find them helpful everywhere but have had a few climbs/descents where I'd rather have my hands on the rocks than pole tips. I'm sure there's some of those too.

[Driver8]

Ok. That's great to know. I was a bit worried about pole vaulting down the mountainside :D I find them helpful everywhere but have had a few climbs/descents where I'd rather have my hands on the rocks than pole tips. I'm sure there's some of those too.

Oh, fear not, there are plenty of scrambles in the Whites, but it's easy enough to hand poles down or up to a fellow hiker for a given pass, stow them, etc.

[peakbagger]

I just throw them down to the bottom of steep stuff. Just make sure you don't use the straps. I adjust mine longer when going downhill and make darn sure they are tight as I put my full body weight on them in some spots.

[Kerosene]

I started Mahoosuc Notch (NOBO) with my poles, but I quickly figured out that I would be much faster without them. I stowed them in my side pack pockets and did great with my hands, although I wish that I had had gloves. Took me 75 minutes to get to the end, even though I was a bit nervous but thank god the rocks were dry. A young lady behind me went through in 65 minutes, but she was a bouldering pro and 35 years my junior. I do rely on my poles for the steep downhills. Sometimes they get in the way on a short, steep ascent/descent, in which case I just hold them in one hand and try not to trip myself.

[FarmerChef]

Just a general update. The trip is still set to begin next Friday with a climb over Moosilauke but, and it's a big BUT, my daughter and I may have broken a toe on our last hike. I'm guessing metatarsal for my daughter while I think I just broke a phalanges distalis (i.e. tape and keep going). So, I might get to hike the white's twice (once with the remaining fam and once with my daughter - not a bad thing) or we might have to abort and take an unplanned vacation week in the Whites since we've already reserved a timeshare up there and can't back out. For now, we're moving forward with our plans but a visit to the doc today should prove informative.

Fingers crossed.

[Meriadoc]

Just a general update. The trip is still set to begin next Friday with a climb over Moosilauke but, and it's a big BUT, my daughter and I may have broken a toe on our last hike . . . For now, we're moving forward with our plans but a visit to the doc today should prove informative.

Fingers crossed.

Good luck!

[FarmerChef]

Good luck!

So, it's official. My toes is fine - just numb and able to bend weirdly. My daughter, however, has a broken metatarsal and the doc says it won't fully heal for about 3 weeks. Looks like I get to hike the Whites twice. :D

Btw, thought I'd offer up that I learned that an interagency Park Pass is good in the WMNF for parking. It must be displayed on the dashboard but you don't need to buy a permit if you plan to park in the park.

[FarmerChef]

By the way, I thought I would also inquire as to any really great spots for kids. I usually look for streams to play in, cool waterfalls to float sticks over, visitor's centers, that sort of thing as we hike along. It gives us things to look forward to each day as the kids don't always enjoy the incredibly awe-inspiring vistas quite the same way their mom and dad do. We definitely plan to stop in at the huts to grab a bite to eat as we pass by. We'll check out the observatory or whatever we can on top of Mt. Washington. What other spots are particularly interesting for kids?

[-SEEKER-]

Your mileage expectations are too high. Leave the dog at home. Met a few in that section this year and they almost all had bloody paws from the rocks.

[FarmerChef]

Your mileage expectations are too high. Leave the dog at home. Met a few in that section this year and they almost all had bloody paws from the rocks.

Already there on the dog. She'll be staying home. We'll see about the mileage. Totally flexible. Will update as we go.

[Kerosene]

You will pass south of The Flume and The Basin (http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/state-parks/notchs-natural-wonders.aspx) in Franconia Notch, which could be really interesting to both you and the kids. Obviously it requires getting off the AT for a bit with some more walking, but they're both pretty cool. You could take a half-day off the trail, or perhaps catch these sites before/after the hike. I believe that they're within 1-2 miles of the AT trailhead, but it's not clear from Google Maps.

[hikerboy57]

theres a zipline at wildcat just north of pinkham.
kerosenes flume suggestion is a bit more natural, and just as much fun.

[Blissful]

By the way, I thought I would also inquire as to any really great spots for kids. I usually look for streams to play in, cool waterfalls to float sticks over, visitor's centers, that sort of thing as we hike along. It gives us things to look forward to each day as the kids don't always enjoy the incredibly awe-inspiring vistas quite the same way their mom and dad do. We definitely plan to stop in at the huts to grab a bite to eat as we pass by. We'll check out the observatory or whatever we can on top of Mt. Washington. What other spots are particularly interesting for kids?

We took our son at age 10 to Franconia Falls off the Lincoln Woods trailhead. He loved it. Campsites there and a rock water slide.

[FarmerChef]

We took our son at age 10 to Franconia Falls off the Lincoln Woods trailhead. He loved it. Campsites there and a rock water slide.

My kids love playing in the water. A rock water slide sounds like just the ticket. Have to see how far off trail it is. Thanks for the tip!


theres a zipline at wildcat just north of pinkham.
kerosenes flume suggestion is a bit more natural, and just as much fun.

Wow. That looks like a blast. Now that I have to hike it twice, it might be worth it to do then next time we come up. Maybe we can squeeze it in this time too.


You will pass south of The Flume and The Basin (http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/state-parks/notchs-natural-wonders.aspx) in Franconia Notch, which could be really interesting to both you and the kids. Obviously it requires getting off the AT for a bit with some more walking, but they're both pretty cool. You could take a half-day off the trail, or perhaps catch these sites before/after the hike. I believe that they're within 1-2 miles of the AT trailhead, but it's not clear from Google Maps.

Ooh that looks neat. We'll probably have time for a nice excursion over there. Thanks!

[Slo-go'en]

If you let your kids play in the water, be real careful. The streams are running high and there have been a number of drowings this year from swiming in rivers with swift currents. May not be a problem with the smaller streams you'll encounter, but there could be some which are trouble. And it's never safe to climb on the rocks along a water fall.

[Sly]

What other spots are particularly interesting for kids?

Alpine slide at Attitash


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOx4HAfsIFQ

[Driver8]

Just a general update. The trip is still set to begin next Friday with a climb over Moosilauke but, and it's a big BUT, my daughter and I may have broken a toe on our last hike. I'm guessing metatarsal for my daughter while I think I just broke a phalanges distalis (i.e. tape and keep going). So, I might get to hike the white's twice (once with the remaining fam and once with my daughter - not a bad thing) or we might have to abort and take an unplanned vacation week in the Whites since we've already reserved a timeshare up there and can't back out. For now, we're moving forward with our plans but a visit to the doc today should prove informative.

Fingers crossed.

Fingers and toes, as it were. There's lots of cool stuff to do in the Whites even if one doesn't go up high - the Flume, Lost River, lots of nice waterfalls, especially in Crawford Notch area.

[Driver8]

We took our son at age 10 to Franconia Falls off the Lincoln Woods trailhead. He loved it. Campsites there and a rock water slide.

The main trail into Franconia Falls, Lincoln Woods, will be closed except maybe for weekends during Farmer's visit, unfortunately.

[FarmerChef]

Well, we are on for a climb of Mt. Moosilauke this Friday and a celebration on the top for our daughter's birthday! After that we plunge ever deeper into the Whites. Unfortunately, we will not be joined by my second oldest daughter who broke her foot on our last hike :( We will get to rehike the Whites again next summer so she can finish that section before we finish out Maine and climb Katahdin. Luckily, she'll be healed in plenty of time for our romp over Mt. Rogers over Labor Day weekend and in time for our Thanksgiving hike of the Smokies!

If anybody WBers happen to be in the Whites through next week. I do hope to see you at some point. I'll try to post our daily itinerary as frequently as I can if anyone is interested in trying to meet up. I should have internet access frequently. If I'm lucky, I'll bump into ChinMusic, Army Ant and Coach at some point. Time will tell...

[Driver8]

It's looking unlikely I'll be able to make it up that way during your trek, as I'm busier than a hive of bees. Better than being not busy, but not as good as hiking up north!

[Chaco Taco]

Franconia to Guyot is a hell of a day. Garfield Ridge Trail is brutal after being above treeline all day. Id rethink your mileage. Yea you may have all of these miles prior to this trip, but that wont really mean much up here. Id plan more for 10-12 a day at most, especially to start. Look at the Trail Angel Hiker Services for your shuttling needs.

[Chaco Taco]

Guyot to Crawford is probably the only day that you could potentially do that sort of mileage. But with kids, why subject them to that? My suggestion that I offered to another family that I shuttled last week.

1. The Kinsmans are easy, Kinsman Pond tentsite is a neat place to stay.
2. Liberty Springs is great and leaves you Mt Liberty to hike up for sunsets and sunrise.
3. After Franconia Ridge, stay at Garfield Ridge, GRT is brutal after treeline.
4. The climb up South Twin is steep but short. After South twin, the trail gets significantly easier until Crawford Notch.
5. The Perch, off Israel Ridge will most likely be full if you arrive after 3-4 in the afternoon, as is the case with many and most AMC tent sites and shelters.

Good luck with your hike. Id seriously reconsider your mileage. Its different from anything else you have hiked thus far and can be punishing in spots. GET A WMNF MAP for bailouts and tent sites because it sounds like you are going to need to have that as a possible back up.

[jbwood5]

Farmer C.... I don't know if you left for the trip or not, but I just went through there a few weeks ago. As all the other folks mentioned, your mileage expectations are mostly out of line. There are areas where it is tough to go 1 mile an hour. The Sunday 17.8 distance would be quite a feat. I remember coming down out of Beaver Brook in wet slippery conditions. I slipped once and thought it was all over for me (about a 25 foot slide - mostly saved by the pack). This section is brutal with occasional pieces of rebar and slippery wood blocks fastened to the rock face and boulders. Yes... with poles in hand, it can be a PITA. Other times the poles save your knees.

The Climb up to S Kinsman Mtn is just plain scary when it is wet. It is like a cliff of giant bolders the size of RV's, stacked but offset. Sometimes you have to move from one side across to the other side, pull yourself up with handholds while pushing off the toe holds to grab the next handhold. It's one of those places you don't turn around until you are aways up there. Just focus on the toe and handhole grab areas.

Out of Garfield Ridge, you literally go down a waterfall, getting soaked on the way. Having the hiking poles can be both a blessing and a curse, depending on how much you need to grab a rock for stability.

All I can say is that it is exciting. You might find comfort in knowing that I came across a few outward bound youth groups and even a father, son, and daughter who navigated all this unharmed. Kids are agile and flexible and can usually handle the extremes better than the parents. :)
It won't take long to distinguish the wet slippery areas versus the wet non-slippery areas, but testing the wet rocks eats up a lot of time.

I guess I need to do a trip report when I get the time. Hopefully you'll get clear weather in the Presidentials. The area is truly astonishing. Best of luck to you!!!

[FarmerChef]

Trip update:

Day 1 - Slackpack over Moosilauke. Today's weather forecast calls for flash flooding and 1 - 2" of rain. So we're bagging our hike for today. We'll pick this up at the end instead since we can slack from Hiker's Welcome here in Glencliff. We'll pick up tomorrow from Kinsman to Franconia southbound. Section hiker luxury - cherry picking the weather. :)

[Slo-go'en]

Good call, today would not be a pleasent day of hiking. I bet Rainman and his group are not having fun going over the Carters today. I hope he got to the hut before the gully washer we had late yesterday afternoon hit.

At least the weekend and most of next week is looking pretty darn good. I might even go out and bag another peak or two myself once this clears out.

[Kerosene]

I bet Rainman and his group are not having fun going over the Carters today.I am soooo glad that I had good weather through the Carters and Mahoosucs (and Whites). I can't imagine how difficult some of those descents are in wet, windy weather.

[Driver8]

Farmer-

have a great trek. If the weather's great tomorrow, with the rains, Beaver Brook falls will be amazing, so the Moosilauke traverse could be beautiful. Food for thought. My best to Steve Smith at Mtn Wanderer if you see him.

[jeffmeh]

Achilles (2012) and Nickelodeon (2013) just finished a 3-day SOBO Presidentials traverse with a group of 14-15 year old boys. Achilles reports that it was indeed pretty wet out there today, but since they made it to Mizpah last night they only had a short trip over Jackson and out.

[FarmerChef]

Day 2 - Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch - Gorgeous weather today. Made great time with a 7:00am start and a 5:30pm finish at the parking lot (got lost in conversation with Moose ('13 and many years before) for about 45 minutes there). Saw our first moose (a cow) today at the hut (which was packed with guests). Had a blast climbing Mt. Wolf and Kinsman. Could have done with a few more steps/rebar on the descent down the backside of Kinsman but we made it ok. Tomorrow we start a 2 day section from Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch. Weather looks drop dead gorgeous with more in store later in the week for Mt. Washington. We'll take another zero on Tuesday when rain/thunderstorms are forecast. Plenty of time to sneak another one and still make Gorham on time (and swing back around to lop off Moosilauke at the end...or just come back and hit it the second time).

More detailed play by play updates to show up in my Trail Journals journal, including pics.

[hikerboy57]

Day 2 - Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch - Gorgeous weather today. Made great time with a 7:00am start and a 5:30pm finish at the parking lot (got lost in conversation with Moose ('13 and many years before) for about 45 minutes there). Saw our first moose (a cow) today at the hut (which was packed with guests). Had a blast climbing Mt. Wolf and Kinsman. Could have done with a few more steps/rebar on the descent down the backside of Kinsman but we made it ok. Tomorrow we start a 2 day section from Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch. Weather looks drop dead gorgeous with more in store later in the week for Mt. Washington. We'll take another zero on Tuesday when rain/thunderstorms are forecast. Plenty of time to sneak another one and still make Gorham on time (and swing back around to lop off Moosilauke at the end...or just come back and hit it the second time).

More detailed play by play updates to show up in my Trail Journals journal, including pics.
where you shooting for tomorrow night? the perseids are at their peak tomorrow night.garfield ridge campsite is awesome to watch from or cowboy on garfield

[FarmerChef]

where you shooting for tomorrow night? the perseids are at their peak tomorrow night.garfield ridge campsite is awesome to watch from or cowboy on garfield


Garfield Ridge is our goal! Going to SOBO the section. Hopefully we run into Chin today!

[jeffmeh]

where you shooting for tomorrow night? the perseids are at their peak tomorrow night.garfield ridge campsite is awesome to watch from or cowboy on garfield

Awesome place to watch them. Very jealous, FarmerChef!

[Slo-go'en]

Awesome place to watch them. Very jealous, FarmerChef!

If he can keep his eyes open that late! Big day yesterday, posts at 10:30 PM, then again at 5:30 AM this morning, now doing another big day - man he's got to be beat.

[FarmerChef]

If he can keep his eyes open that late! Big day yesterday, posts at 10:30 PM, then again at 5:30 AM this morning, now doing another big day - man he's got to be beat.

We stayed up till 11:00 last night trying to watch the show but clouds moved in. Some other hikers we saw said the show was great at 2:00am when the clouds cleared out. Not for me! I couldn't stay up that late! :)

Trip update: Day 3 and Day 4

Day 3 - We did the 17 miles from Crawford Notch to Garfield Ridge Shelter yesterday. Could not believe the first 7 miles were flat as a pancake and graveled to boot! We could have sworn we were on the C&O Canal portion of the AT in Maryland :D After that we hit Zealand Falls Hut for some hot cocoa and leftover breakfast. Then it was off to climb up Mt. Guyot and South Twin Mountain. Neither climb was very remarkable but there were a few rocks to negotiate. Things got interesting on the descent of South Twin and even more so on the brief climb to Garfield Ridge Shelter. We got free cupcakes at Galehead Hut (they stuck to the pan). We used them to sop up the hut's delicious potato soup. Yum! Started around 7:00 and ended right at 6:00. As we got settled in we bumped into Moose again as well as Magic Scout who didn't quite remember Mamma Bear until she mentioned giving him trail magic at Gathland State Park. Then boing! Memories came back. And I should definitely mention that I was thrilled to finally run into Chin Music on the trail :D :D :D. We chatted for a bit and then moved on. We stashed him some Diet Coke in a secret location this afternoon. Hope he finds it. More to come.

Day 4 - Garfield Ridge to Franconia Notch (10 miles). We finished the climb up Garfield Ridge and took photos across the way of our upcoming hike across Lafayette, Lincoln and Little Haystack. Then it was down and across the valley and up the fantastic climb up Lafayette. Man that was fun! Rock climbs all over the place but not very much hand over hand, if any, that I recall. Eye candy all around the whole way. Oh my gosh. We voted it the best views ever...so far. Bumped into a bunch of our newest thru friends from the past couple of days and...Violet!! Yes, we saw her coming up the climb to Liberty Springs and I immediately recognized her. Then we drove off to leave some trail magic for hikers and stash Chin's secret Diet Cokes. Started at 7:30 and ended at 2:30.

So far we are loving the Whites. We've had terrific hiking days with tons of blue blazes and trailside chats. Still making great time and enjoying ourselves with everyone in the evening.

[FarmerChef]

Day 5 - Zero. Rain and nasty weather atop Mt. Washington today. We'll postpone our summit for a couple of days and hike up either side tomorrow (weather permitting). Going to take the train ride through the valley with the kids and check out the Mt. Washington Weather Discover Center just up the street.

[FarmerChef]

Day 5 - Zero. Rain and nasty weather atop Mt. Washington today. We'll postpone our summit for a couple of days and hike up either side tomorrow (weather permitting). Going to take the train ride through the valley with the kids and check out the Mt. Washington Weather Discover Center just up the street.

[joshuasdad]

Day 5 - Zero. Rain and nasty weather atop Mt. Washington today. We'll postpone our summit for a couple of days and hike up either side tomorrow (weather permitting). Going to take the train ride through the valley with the kids and check out the Mt. Washington Weather Discover Center just up the street.

I don't know what car support you have, but consider starting a day on top of Mt. Washington, finishing at one of the notches, then flipping to the other notch and hiking up. I believe that you can get permission to leave a car up there one night. I would not suggest this to most, but it looks like you have the hiking speed to comfortably do this.

I might see you in the Mahoosics if you get there this weekend.

Hope you have great weather for the summit!

[jeffmeh]

Thanks for the updates. Now the important question: Have you made it to Moat Mountain Smokehouse yet? :)

[FarmerChef]

Thanks for the updates. Now the important question: Have you made it to Moat Mountain Smokehouse yet? :)

Yes we did! Enjoyed a fitting final meal there after our last day of hiking on Saturday. Ribs were good and we liked the pulled pork empanadas and pot stickers too! We managed to beat the rush which was a blessing as we only had to wait about 30 minutes to get a table.

[FarmerChef]

I don't know what car support you have, but consider starting a day on top of Mt. Washington, finishing at one of the notches, then flipping to the other notch and hiking up. I believe that you can get permission to leave a car up there one night. I would not suggest this to most, but it looks like you have the hiking speed to comfortably do this.

I might see you in the Mahoosics if you get there this weekend.

Hope you have great weather for the summit!

Thanks! I'll reply by providing the last days of the trip report.

Day 6: Pinkham Notch to Lake of the Clouds (14.9) - Started out bright and early at 7:30, leaving some trail magic at Crawford Notch the day before (so we could pick up the trash when we got there). Climb up Madison was steep but not too bad. Had a late lunch at Madison Spring Hut. Then bumped into Chin Music again as we got close to Mt. Washington and confirmed he didn't get our email in time to get his secret stash of Diet Coke back at Crawford Notch :( We'll try again. Had to make a decision on go/no go for Mt. Washington at this point. It was too early in the day to hit Perch or Osgood so we decided to push on to Mizpah and Nauman. Winds and fog on Mt. Washington. Blowing 60 with gusts to 80 - very exciting! Stopped into the snack shop for dinner since we knew we would get to camp late. Then pushed on down the other side. Stopped in at Lake of the Clouds at around 6:00 a bit worried about visibility if it got dark but the hutmaster let us stay in the Dungeon (we told him we were sectioners and were happy to pay). We took him up on the offer and we paid for 4 bunks but only used 2 and ate our own food. There were still 2 bunks left in the Dungeon all night.

Day 7 - Lake of the Clouds to Mt. Washington to Crawford Notch (13.9). My son (8) got up at 6:00 to help the croo make breakfast. He was a hit and earned himself "work-for-hot-chocolate." The croo gave him an apron to commemorate his stay. Our friend who has been shuttling us took the bus tour up Mt. Washington. So we hustled and burned out the 1.4 up Mt. Washington in 35 minutes to meet her after she texted she was on her way (we didn't want to get up there too early if she had to wait an hour). Couldn't believe we made it in time. Visibility was better with partly cloudy skies. Much better than the afternoon before. We filled our bellies and spent time touring the summit this time. Then we enjoyed a comfortable downhill day until we hit Webster Cliffs and did the slow descent down to Crawford Notch. Met a sectioner from Ireland who did the 26 miles notch to notch but missed his turnoff to the AMC center. We gave him a shuttle from the trailhead parking lot back.

Day 8 - Pinkham Notch to US2 (21.1 miles). Got a late start (8:15) but managed to finish by 8:15pm. Climb up Wildcat E was no picnic though we have found we do much better up than steeply down in the Whites then we plummeted down Wildcat A to Carter Notch Hut (ouch!). Had lunch there right on time (12:30). Left around 1:30 with full bellies to do the climb up Carter Dome and Mt. Hight also killer climbs. Then off to a really precipitous drop on solid rock slabs with no rebar, steps or anything to Zeta Pass. Not scary but definitely tedious. Same thing again on descent from North Carter. After Moriah it was also pretty bad until Rattle River when it magically changed to dreamy trail. We made tracks and busted out the last 3.5 miles. Found our trail magic right where we left it. Took a soda or frozen gatorade a piece and left the rest there (minus the cooler) for those coming through.

Day 9 - Fun. We were going to drive back and hike Moosilauke since we missed it on Day 1 but fate conspired against us. Late yesterday, we realized that Mamma Bear left her "wallet" at Carter Notch Hut. We called that evening and the croo happened to be hiking back to the visitor's center the next day. I was prepared to go trail running to get it. So, instead of driving the 1.5 hours to Moosilauke to drive 1.5 back and then 1.5 back again, we decided to just stick around the visitor's center and go day hiking. We headed back up the AT toward Mt. Washington and took a left on the Great Gulf Trail. We hiked along the Peabody river for a half a mile or so until we found a good swimming hole. The water was freezing! We enjoyed soaking our legs and laying on the giant rocks. We weren't the only ones out for a swim. Then back to the visitor's center/lodge and off to Moat Mountain for some barbecue. Oh and Chin found our Diet Coke stash this time. Great!

I'll be updating our journal on Trail Journals with more details, trail descriptions, photos, weather, etc. Cruise on over for an in depth look at our time in the Whites if you're interested.

Thanks to everyone for the great tips on where to go, what to do, how to divide our mileage, etc. We had a great time in the Whites and my son cried on day 8 when I announced we had "left the White Mountains." My daughter thought it was one of the best birthday's ever and my wife and I had one of the most enjoyable hikes we've ever had. Loved Franconia Ridge and the Presidentials (if it had been less cloudy, even better). We might yellow blaze the Wildcats on our thru :p :p All in all, a success by our terms.

[hikerboy57]

thankis, farmer chef. nice report

[Driver8]

Thanks! I'll reply by providing the last days of the trip report.

Day 6: Pinkham Notch to Lake of the Clouds (14.9) - Started out bright and early at 7:30, leaving some trail magic at Crawford Notch the day before (so we could pick up the trash when we got there). Climb up Madison was steep but not too bad. Had a late lunch at Madison Spring Hut. Then bumped into Chin Music again as we got close to Mt. Washington and confirmed he didn't get our email in time to get his secret stash of Diet Coke back at Crawford Notch :( We'll try again. Had to make a decision on go/no go for Mt. Washington at this point. It was too early in the day to hit Perch or Osgood so we decided to push on to Mizpah and Nauman. Winds and fog on Mt. Washington. Blowing 60 with gusts to 80 - very exciting! Stopped into the snack shop for dinner since we knew we would get to camp late. Then pushed on down the other side. Stopped in at Lake of the Clouds at around 6:00 a bit worried about visibility if it got dark but the hutmaster let us stay in the Dungeon (we told him we were sectioners and were happy to pay). We took him up on the offer and we paid for 4 bunks but only used 2 and ate our own food. There were still 2 bunks left in the Dungeon all night.

Day 7 - Lake of the Clouds to Mt. Washington to Crawford Notch (13.9). My son (8) got up at 6:00 to help the croo make breakfast. He was a hit and earned himself "work-for-hot-chocolate." The croo gave him an apron to commemorate his stay. Our friend who has been shuttling us took the bus tour up Mt. Washington. So we hustled and burned out the 1.4 up Mt. Washington in 35 minutes to meet her after she texted she was on her way (we didn't want to get up there too early if she had to wait an hour). Couldn't believe we made it in time. Visibility was better with partly cloudy skies. Much better than the afternoon before. We filled our bellies and spent time touring the summit this time. Then we enjoyed a comfortable downhill day until we hit Webster Cliffs and did the slow descent down to Crawford Notch. Met a sectioner from Ireland who did the 26 miles notch to notch but missed his turnoff to the AMC center. We gave him a shuttle from the trailhead parking lot back.

Day 8 - Pinkham Notch to US2 (21.1 miles). Got a late start (8:15) but managed to finish by 8:15pm. Climb up Wildcat E was no picnic though we have found we do much better up than steeply down in the Whites then we plummeted down Wildcat A to Carter Notch Hut (ouch!). Had lunch there right on time (12:30). Left around 1:30 with full bellies to do the climb up Carter Dome and Mt. Hight also killer climbs. Then off to a really precipitous drop on solid rock slabs with no rebar, steps or anything to Zeta Pass. Not scary but definitely tedious. Same thing again on descent from North Carter. After Moriah it was also pretty bad until Rattle River when it magically changed to dreamy trail. We made tracks and busted out the last 3.5 miles. Found our trail magic right where we left it. Took a soda or frozen gatorade a piece and left the rest there (minus the cooler) for those coming through.

Day 9 - Fun. We were going to drive back and hike Moosilauke since we missed it on Day 1 but fate conspired against us. Late yesterday, we realized that Mamma Bear left her "wallet" at Carter Notch Hut. We called that evening and the croo happened to be hiking back to the visitor's center the next day. I was prepared to go trail running to get it. So, instead of driving the 1.5 hours to Moosilauke to drive 1.5 back and then 1.5 back again, we decided to just stick around the visitor's center and go day hiking. We headed back up the AT toward Mt. Washington and took a left on the Great Gulf Trail. We hiked along the Peabody river for a half a mile or so until we found a good swimming hole. The water was freezing! We enjoyed soaking our legs and laying on the giant rocks. We weren't the only ones out for a swim. Then back to the visitor's center/lodge and off to Moat Mountain for some barbecue. Oh and Chin found our Diet Coke stash this time. Great!

I'll be updating our journal on Trail Journals with more details, trail descriptions, photos, weather, etc. Cruise on over for an in depth look at our time in the Whites if you're interested.

Thanks to everyone for the great tips on where to go, what to do, how to divide our mileage, etc. We had a great time in the Whites and my son cried on day 8 when I announced we had "left the White Mountains." My daughter thought it was one of the best birthday's ever and my wife and I had one of the most enjoyable hikes we've ever had. Loved Franconia Ridge and the Presidentials (if it had been less cloudy, even better). We might yellow blaze the Wildcats on our thru :p :p All in all, a success by our terms.

What a great report of a great trip, FarmerChef. I almost feel as if I were with you on the trip. I'm eager to get to the Great Gulf - glad you got a look at it.

Did you get a chance to stop by Mountain Wanderer in Lincoln and catch Steve? I'm thinking you might not have, cuz if you had, you'd still be there talking to him. :D

[Tom Murphy]

Day 8 - Pinkham Notch to US2 (21.1 miles).

That's impressive [with or without your overnight gear]. Your kids are strong hikers.

Sounds like you had a wonderful vacation.

[Tom Murphy]

Knowing what you know now. Do you think the original itinerary was achievable as a thru section hike with your packs?

[FarmerChef]

Knowing what you know now. Do you think the original itinerary was achievable as a thru section hike with your packs?

Short answer = yes.

Long answer:

Our performance was much higher than I anticipated given the toughness of the Whites. We trained hard the previous 1.5 weeks doing stairmaster or physical stairs for an hour each day every other day. That might have had something to do with it. Plus, we had just come off trail 1.5 weeks prior and tried to keep our trail legs if not enhance them. We set out at 7:00am most mornings and made our goal by around 5:00 each evening. Normally, we'd keep hiking until 6:00 or 7:00 in the summer which is basically what we did through the Wildcats. Now,I'm assuming by "thru section hike" you mean as my original itinerary had it, including stops. If so, then most certainly yes - even with the extra food weight. If we had to do it completely thru I would have split it up to get us from campsite to campsite and not notch to notch and I would have mailed resupply packages to the AMC centers to keep that food weight down. I'm not sure how the math would work there but I still think we could comfortably do it in 5 days if the weather was perfect. As it was, we still took two unplanned zeros due to weather and a third due to a missing item. Of course, I would be surprised to get 5 good weather days in a row in the whites and would probably have hiked down off the mountain to stay in a hotel/hostel if I knew rainy weather was forecast. Planning for 7 is much more reasonable in my opinion. That would still have left us enough time to make it up to ME26 if we included the 10th and 11th days as originally planned.

[FarmerChef]

I should also add that it was sage advice not to bring our dog. My brand new Merrell's had the lugs completely worn off in the front (still mad about that). I'm not sure even her boots would have held up on that terrain.

[Tom Murphy]

I gotta tell ya, I was skeptical given your children's ages. I was wrong. Thank you for sharing this adventure, I looked forward to reading all your posts.

There are plenty of free stealth sites in the Whites along the AT but they don't really match up with an effiicient daily mileage / re-supply schedule.

[Kerosene]

I should also add that it was sage advice not to bring our dog. My brand new Merrell's had the lugs completely worn off in the front (still mad about that). I'm not sure even her boots would have held up on that terrain.Yes, I was skeptical also. It is always difficult to accurately assess someone's abilities without seeing them 'in action' or being able to relate to their prior exploits. The last thing I want to do is over-encourage someone beyond their abilities.

I agree with you about weather in the Whites...a windy/rainy/foggy/snowy day would make for even slower hiking with more room for problems, not to mention additional discomfort. I was truly fortunate on my section hike through the Whites, with absolutely perfect weather from Glencliff to Crawford Notch, a zero day to wait for a storm to pass through, misty the next day to LOTC Hut, and another perfect, zero wind day over the Prezzies. Last Fall I had similar weather from Pinkham Notch through to Grafton Notch -- a misty day over Baldpate, and then lovely weather to Rangeley.

[FarmerChef]

What a great report of a great trip, FarmerChef. I almost feel as if I were with you on the trip. I'm eager to get to the Great Gulf - glad you got a look at it.

Did you get a chance to stop by Mountain Wanderer in Lincoln and catch Steve? I'm thinking you might not have, cuz if you had, you'd still be there talking to him. :D

I really wanted to but since we couldn't travel back to Moosilauke on the last day I didn't get to make my planned stop. I'm sure I would have had my kids pulling on me to get me out of the store :D. When we come back to rehike it with my daughter who broke her foot I'll have to work during the day but will be free during the evenings (shuttling my family around for day hikes). I think I'll get a chance to get over there then.

[FarmerChef]

I gotta tell ya, I was skeptical given your children's ages. I was wrong. Thank you for sharing this adventure, I looked forward to reading all your posts.

There are plenty of free stealth sites in the Whites along the AT but they don't really match up with an effiicient daily mileage / re-supply schedule.

No worries. Really, my 8 year old is the fastest and has the most energy. At one point, on Day 8 we bumped into one of the thrus we'd met off and on every couple of days all week. My wife was talking with him about my son and he said something along the lines of, "You mean he has more energy than this?!?" Honestly, I was surprised that we didn't struggle more with the elevation changes. Everyone had me good and scared about the terrain and weather. So we prepared for all of it, including the stair climbing. I'm sure we would not have done the same getting right off the sofa. My wife and I run marathons but that's a lot different than strapping on a pack and walking (if you can call it that) straight uphill :D. And I would be just as cautious as everyone here in giving advice to someone who's physical conditioning is unknown. It was easy to see how folks could quickly get into trouble.

As for the stealth sites, definitely agree. Our main problem is that we have a tarp sized for 5 (10x12). Finding a site that big is not as easy as finding one for a 4x6 or even a 6x8. Still, we did find some (little tent symbol, usually with the fire symbol crossed out).

[FarmerChef]

I was truly fortunate on my section hike through the Whites, with absolutely perfect weather from Glencliff to Crawford Notch, a zero day to wait for a storm to pass through, misty the next day to LOTC Hut, and another perfect, zero wind day over the Prezzies.

Sooo jealous. Our weather was great on the days it wasn't raining. But our northern Presi traverse was in the clouds from the top of Madison to LOTC. Sometimes we could see and sometimes we couldn't. It's a section I wouldn't mind doing over again in clearer skies.

[Driver8]

I really wanted to but since we couldn't travel back to Moosilauke on the last day I didn't get to make my planned stop. I'm sure I would have had my kids pulling on me to get me out of the store :D. When we come back to rehike it with my daughter who broke her foot I'll have to work during the day but will be free during the evenings (shuttling my family around for day hikes). I think I'll get a chance to get over there then.

One more thing to look forward to - I hope you get a red-letter day for Moosilauke, too. It's a special place.

[Driver8]

I was truly fortunate on my section hike through the Whites, with absolutely perfect weather from Glencliff to Crawford Notch, a zero day to wait for a storm to pass through, misty the next day to LOTC Hut, and another perfect, zero wind day over the Prezzies. Last Fall I had similar weather from Pinkham Notch through to Grafton Notch -- a misty day over Baldpate, and then lovely weather to Rangeley.

I'm working on the 48 NH 4Ks and have done 9, 3 of them twice. I have summited 3 of the 9 in zero wind - Washington on Father's Day last year, no wind as my summit pic was taken, Flume last December, and Pierce this May. I make a point only to hike up there under a good weather forecast. Hard enough even then. Washington, last June, was during a rare stretch, noted by the Observatory - first time since the '50s to have five consecutive days with average wind for the day under 10 mph. IIRC, June 17 was day 3 of the 5. Garfield was the windiest, Moosilauke, take 2 last month, second.