View Full Version : 6/12/13 Armed drunk at Rocky Mountain shelters in PA
Blue Mountain Edward
07-03-2013, 08:41
There was bad weather forecast for the night, thunderstorms and chance for a tornado. I set my tent up between the shelters in case the weather got to windy. This guy Justin and his stepson were in the one shelter. His wife came up later and spent the night. Well Justin was well armed with a machete, sheath knife, pocket knife, BB rifle and a .45 pistol. Justin was sharing his food and drinks with us real backpackers. After drinking 3 40 ounce beers at around 1 am he starts shooting the pistol out of the shelter. Well all 4 of us backpackers were scared, nobody walked over to the shelter that family was in to see what was going on. Justin was planning on staying in the shelter 4 days. I heard the next day police and a park ranger removed them from the trail. Anyone know if he was arrested and charged with any crimes?
Pedaling Fool
07-03-2013, 09:30
Charles Krauthammer has talked about mental illness and he makes some good points http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationworld/guns-mental-illness-and-culture-all-must-be-addressed_2012-12-21.html
However, I'd like to pick his brain about mental illness in comparison to the effects of testosterone and alcohol; seems like there are a lot of parallels.:)
atmilkman
07-03-2013, 09:34
Charles Krauthammer has talked about mental illness and he makes some good points
However, I'd like to pick his brain about mental illness in comparison to the effects of testosterone and alcohol; seems like there are a lot of parallels.:)
Aren't those called beer balls.
Drybones
07-03-2013, 09:43
Interesting how booze effects people differently, some become fighters, some become lovers. A scientist was trying to determine how alcohol affected people and was using arctic terns to experiment on, he'd get them drunk and make observations. He started with 1000 terns, went thru 999 with no success, got to 1000 and discovered the answer...moral to the story...never give up until the last tern is stoned.
This sounds like the same fellow who was causing serious problems elsewhere on the trail a week or so ago.
Pathfinder1
07-03-2013, 10:25
Hi...
There's never a hand grenade around when you need one, is there...?? :)
MyName1sMud
07-03-2013, 11:49
I normally stand on the side of the guns... but this guy doesn't sound like he knows how to operate one in a safe manner.
Bad shoot.
illabelle
07-03-2013, 12:09
Interesting how booze effects people differently, some become fighters, some become lovers. A scientist was trying to determine how alcohol affected people and was using arctic terns to experiment on, he'd get them drunk and make observations. He started with 1000 terns, went thru 999 with no success, got to 1000 and discovered the answer...moral to the story...never give up until the last tern is stoned.
oh bones, that was just awful (just kidding). i thought it was going to be serious. you fooled me almost to the end. :p
one question:
so he observed 999 terms with "no success"? really? what happened to them? did they go poof or something? what is success?
I had a bad experience at Rocky Mountain shelter several years ago. I was the only one there during the evening, with some scouts and other hikers camped above near the AT. At about 10:30 pm a guy, quite drunk, came down the trail with two kids in tow and proceeded to set up camp in the other shelter (it's a dual shelter, like some others in Pennsylvania) and cook far into the night. There was lots of swearing and banging of pots and pans. I left in the morning at first light. I felt sorry for the kids, but there was nothing I could do.
Drybones
07-03-2013, 15:14
oh bones, that was just awful (just kidding). i thought it was going to be serious. you fooled me almost to the end. :p
one question:
so he observed 999 terms with "no success"? really? what happened to them? did they go poof or something? what is success?
The fighters are in jail....the lovers are paying child support.
Drybones
07-03-2013, 15:16
I had a bad experience at Rocky Mountain shelter several years ago. I was the only one there during the evening, with some scouts and other hikers camped above near the AT. At about 10:30 pm a guy, quite drunk, came down the trail with two kids in tow and proceeded to set up camp in the other shelter (it's a dual shelter, like some others in Pennsylvania) and cook far into the night. There was lots of swearing and banging of pots and pans. I left in the morning at first light. I felt sorry for the kids, but there was nothing I could do.
There's nothing worse than being around a drunk when you're sober.
There's nothing worse than being around a drunk when you're sober.Sure there is. Being around a drunk who is messing around with loaded weapons-- whether you are sober yourself or not.Anyone surprised that story took place in PA?
Gray Blazer
07-03-2013, 16:49
Wouldn't it be ironical if he shot himself? Prolly would just make trouble for everyone else.
Interesting how booze effects people differently, some become fighters, some become lovers. A scientist was trying to determine how alcohol affected people and was using arctic terns to experiment on, he'd get them drunk and make observations. He started with 1000 terns, went thru 999 with no success, got to 1000 and discovered the answer...moral to the story...never give up until the last tern is stoned.
(i get the joke)
but, really, if they were stoned instead of being drunk----there would have been a different outcome......
MyName1sMud
07-03-2013, 17:57
(i get the joke)
but, really, if they were stoned instead of being drunk----there would have been a different outcome......
Yeah... he wouldn't have many cheetos left. :banana
fiddlehead
07-03-2013, 18:56
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
Tuckahoe
07-03-2013, 19:07
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
Well I'm posting now so make that two.
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
Normal gun owners cringe at these stories. Not much to say here. Not really about guns. The guy is an irresponsible tool with a drinking problem. If he hadnt brought his gun he probably would have been hacking at the shelter with his machete. Which of course would be preferable.
I can almost guarantee you he did not have a concealed carry permit. Which should have landed him in jail.
Sarcasm the elf
07-03-2013, 19:11
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
Fiddlehead, I'm a bit dissapointed to see you post a troll comment, generally I have a lot of respect for your posts. :(
You might be surprised to learn that the vast majority of gun owners are fully in favor of arresting idiots who dangerously misuse firearms. If the opening post is accurate then I hope they had enough evidence to lock this guy up and permanently confiscate his weapons.
Now that I think about it, I'm also a dog lover, using your logic does that mean by association I support dog fighting?
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
How would you even begin to identify them?
Aficionados of the shooting sports, and defenders of the Second Amendment surely find this kind of behavior abhorrent, too.
Looks like he reeled in three of us in less than 5 minutes!
Lone Wolf
07-03-2013, 19:16
How would you even begin to identify them?
Aficionados of the shooting sports, and defenders of the Second Amendment surely find this kind of behavior abhorrent, too.
uhhh, yeah
No Directions
07-03-2013, 19:18
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
It's not the gun that is to blame. It's the idiot behind it. I imagine if he could have gotten his automobile to the shelter he would have had no qualms about using that dangerous weapon also. I'm sure the good guys that removed him from the trail the next day, protecting everyone else on the trail, had guns.
I actually hate the term "gun lover". I LOVE my children, I ENJOY safe shooting. Just like I ENJOY backpacking.
fiddlehead
07-03-2013, 21:09
Fiddlehead, I'm a bit dissapointed to see you post a troll comment, generally I have a lot of respect for your posts. :(
You might be surprised to learn that the vast majority of gun owners are fully in favor of arresting idiots who dangerously misuse firearms. If the opening post is accurate then I hope they had enough evidence to lock this guy up and permanently confiscate his weapons.
Now that I think about it, I'm also a dog lover, using your logic does that mean by association I support dog fighting?
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
WingedMonkey
07-03-2013, 21:15
Most heavily armed folks on the trail are drunks.
Fortunately, most drunks on the trail are not heavily armed.
No Directions
07-03-2013, 21:36
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
This article tells a different story:
http://www.theborneopost.com/2012/12/09/crime-rate-drops-but-house-breaking-remains-rampant/
Tuckahoe
07-03-2013, 21:47
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
Sorry but as I read your post, I have to shake my head in wonder why you live in such fear and why there is such a disconect with reality.
kidchill
07-03-2013, 21:56
This is why you don't camp at shelters within close proximity to roads! If you look at the crazy crimes that happen ON the AT (I stress ON the AT, 'cause some of the heinous crimes have been committed on side-trails or other trails near the AT, but it sounds better in the news to say ON the AT), it's often times at places that are easily accessible by roads/cars. Apparently the crazies don't like to hike as much as they like to commit crimes. I intentionally avoided any shelter/campsite that was anywhere near a road! Now, sometimes, due to logistics this is difficult to do, but if that happened, I would just hike out into the woods, near the water source and throw my hammock up. I felt much more comfortable being hidden from the trail/shelter. One such shelter comes to mind. I can't remember the name of it, but it was in NY, and not only was the highway like right there, but the shelter was literally in someone's backyard! It was an enclosed cinder block shelter. Basically looked like a garage, without the garage door. The register was full of complaints of fleas, ticks, and spiders as well! Oh, and it was super-cool that they cut down all the trees on the property! There was literally only one spot I could hang my hammock, which pretty much made me stick out like a sore thumb if anyone did happen to come by!
Old Hiker
07-03-2013, 22:00
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
Oh, please.
20 million people spread out over an island vs. 311.5 million. No comparison. Not even counting the ethnic groups, ideologies, etc. we have, all working at cross purposes.
Just a reminder to please fill out an incident report form as soon as possible if you observe threatening or suspicious behavior. The form and more guidance on reporting incidents is available on ATC's website at www.appalachiantrail.org/incidents (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/incidents).
If you have difficulty with the form, you can also just send an email with pertinent information to
[email protected].
ATC has no law enforcement authority, but we work closely with the National Park Service A.T. Chief Ranger, who in turn works with law enforcement agencies up and down the entire A.T.
Laurie P.
ATC
Sarcasm the elf
07-03-2013, 22:49
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
First off thank you for the response, though I don't agree with your conclusions I do agree with the spirit of what you have said.
I think the difference is perspective.
Most of the examples of the peaceful experiences you've listed from your time abroad are things that I routinely have experienced throughout my life in the US.
I am now 32 and have lived in here my whole life. During my lifetime the violent crime rate in this country has dropped 30% - 50%, the murder rate has dropped by the same percentage. At the same time the number of news reports covering violent crime has increased by 3000%*
Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.
My real life experiences run contrary to the constant stream of fearmongering stores we fed by pop culture.
I have lived in both peaceful suburban towns and not so great areas, I also spent a year living in hells kitchen in Manhattan (at the time one of the supposedly bad areas). I have had friends and neighbors of nearly every nationality on earth. I was never scared to walk around any of the places I've lived. Many of these friends and neighbors have also been gun owners, many haven't, they've all been peaceful law abiding US citizens (or residents). Usually the only reason I lock my front door is to stop people from accidently letting my cats escape.
A couple of wreckless drunks at an A.T. shelter isn't going to change my view of the world or make me live in fear.
*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.
** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505
Sarcasm the elf
07-03-2013, 22:50
Just a reminder to please fill out an incident report form as soon as possible if you observe threatening or suspicious behavior. The form and more guidance on reporting incidents is available on ATC's website at www.appalachiantrail.org/incidents (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/incidents).
If you have difficulty with the form, you can also just send an email with pertinent information to
[email protected].
ATC has no law enforcement authority, but we work closely with the National Park Service A.T. Chief Ranger, who in turn works with law enforcement agencies up and down the entire A.T.
Laurie P.
ATC
Laurie,
As always, thanks for all that you do for the trail community!!!
Bucketfoot
07-04-2013, 00:01
No need for anybody to to take cheap shots(no pun intended) at the state of PA. This incident could have happened in any state on the AT. Idiots know no boundaries. In nine years of hiking the AT I have seen only one hiker with a visible handgun. This was in TN/NC this May. It was on his hip and he did not appear to be the type that would be a problem to anyone. I own guns myself but see no need to carry one and I can see where it would make some other hikers uncomfortable.The extra weight just is not worth it to me.
Pedaling Fool
07-04-2013, 09:41
Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.
*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.
** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505
I think the majority of people would call BS on that article by Steven Pinker, especially in a post 9/11 world.
However, I completely agree with him and I've been meaning to get his book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature
Drybones
07-04-2013, 10:03
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them
We can live in peace with them...
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
Fear of consequences is the only thing that keeps mankind in check, fear of laws or fear of God. Unfortunately, we're quickly headed to becoming a godless society so there's no fear of God and we're quickly losing rule of law so there's no fear of law...each does what's right in his own eyes.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
I'd like to hear your suggestion on what to do...many people have come to the conclusion it's arming themselves.
Drybones
07-04-2013, 10:05
I'd like to hear your suggestion on what to do...many people have come to the conclusion it's arming themselves.
Sorry Fiddlehead...I didn't mean to respond above and make it look like my words were yours.
Sarcasm the elf
07-04-2013, 11:25
I think the majority of people would call BS on that article by Steven Pinker, especially in a post 9/11 world.
However, I completely agree with him and I've been meaning to get his book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature
Life on this planet is constantly getting better and we are at the most peaceful time in human history.
The tragedy is that most people have no idea that this is true.
Life on this planet is constantly getting better and we are at the most peaceful time in human history.
The tragedy is that most people have no idea that this is true.
Maybe so in CT. Come to the west or south sides of Chicago and tell me how peaceful things are.
Drybones
07-04-2013, 11:42
Life on this planet is constantly getting better and we are at the most peaceful time in human history.
The tragedy is that most people have no idea that this is true.
History may look back on the past few decades as the golden age of man but it wont last long. Look at what's happening around the world... and it's coming to a theater near you...."because of the increase in violence the love of most will grow cold"...and it wont be because of guns.
Sarcasm the elf
07-04-2013, 12:12
First off thank you for the response, though I don't agree with your conclusions I do agree with the spirit of what you have said.
I think the difference is perspective.
Most of the examples of the peaceful experiences you've listed from your time abroad are things that I routinely have experienced throughout my life in the US.
I am now 32 and have lived in here my whole life. During my lifetime the violent crime rate in this country has dropped 30% - 50%, the murder rate has dropped by the same percentage. At the same time the number of news reports covering violent crime has increased by 3000%*
Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.
My real life experiences run contrary to the constant stream of fearmongering stores we fed by pop culture.
I have lived in both peaceful suburban towns and not so great areas, I also spent a year living in hells kitchen in Manhattan (at the time one of the supposedly bad areas). I have had friends and neighbors of nearly every nationality on earth. I was never scared to walk around any of the places I've lived. Many of these friends and neighbors have also been gun owners, many haven't, they've all been peaceful law abiding US citizens (or residents). Usually the only reason I lock my front door is to stop people from accidently letting my cats escape.
A couple of wreckless drunks at an A.T. shelter isn't going to change my view of the world or make me live in fear.
*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.
** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505
Maybe so in CT. Come to the west or south sides of Chicago and tell me how peaceful things are.
The only statistics I have quoted are at the global and national level.
We clearly will have more wars, and there will always be violent areas, but when it comes to the big picture, we are quantifiably doing quite well.
The sad thing is how many of you seem to be rooting against humanity. I'll stay optimistic.
Blue Mountain Edward
07-04-2013, 13:03
I seen people carrying pistols 3 times on the AT in Pennsylvania. Once it was a man who was with Boy scouts. Another time it was 2 off duty law enforcement types. They carried there firearms in a holster on there belt. This nut at the Rocky Mountain shelters carried his in his pants or backpack. He claimed to have a permit to carry concealed weapons but he was a liar and was telling us about his bad criminal record. I tried to talk to him the next morning about how drunk people should not play with guns. And can he take the 4 40 ounce bottles and pepsi cans with him when he leaves. He then smashed a 40 ounce bottle in the fire ring and said glass will burn. Justin and his stepson were gonna go hunting the next morning with the BB rifle. They were seen carrying a firearm or one of the other 3 hikers reported him. I did not report him though I disliked him. The nut was throwing lighters and a aerasol can of Axe body spray in the fire. It was easy for the police to remove him with the road a half mile from the shelter.
Pedaling Fool
07-07-2013, 08:58
I think the majority of people would call BS on that article by Steven Pinker, especially in a post 9/11 world.
However, I completely agree with him and I've been meaning to get his book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature
But some are still stuck in the dark ages, especially when sports are involved http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2013/07/06/soccer-referee-decapitated-brazil-stabbing-maranhao/2495199/
Excerpt:
SAO PAULO (AP) — Police say enraged spectators invaded a football field, stoned the referee to death and quartered his body after he stabbed a player to death.
The Public Safety Department of the state of Maranhao says in a statement that it all started when referee Otavio da Silva expelled player Josenir Abreu from a game last weekend. The two got into a fist fight, then Silva took out a knife and stabbed Abreu, who died on his way to the hospital.
///////////////////
Local news media say the spectators also decapitated Silva and stuck his head on a stake in the middle of the field.
P.S. Ought to be an interesting 2016 summer olympics:D
First off thank you for the response, though I don't agree with your conclusions I do agree with the spirit of what you have said.
I think the difference is perspective.
Most of the examples of the peaceful experiences you've listed from your time abroad are things that I routinely have experienced throughout my life in the US.
I am now 32 and have lived in here my whole life. During my lifetime the violent crime rate in this country has dropped 30% - 50%, the murder rate has dropped by the same percentage. At the same time the number of news reports covering violent crime has increased by 3000%*
Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.
My real life experiences run contrary to the constant stream of fearmongering stores we fed by pop culture.
I have lived in both peaceful suburban towns and not so great areas, I also spent a year living in hells kitchen in Manhattan (at the time one of the supposedly bad areas). I have had friends and neighbors of nearly every nationality on earth. I was never scared to walk around any of the places I've lived. Many of these friends and neighbors have also been gun owners, many haven't, they've all been peaceful law abiding US citizens (or residents). Usually the only reason I lock my front door is to stop people from accidently letting my cats escape.
A couple of wreckless drunks at an A.T. shelter isn't going to change my view of the world or make me live in fear.
*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.
** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505
Absolutely right, and well-stated. It is unfortunate that most people cannot discern the "signal" of real risk among the "noise" of instantaneous media accounts of the most horrible acts around the globe.
Sounds like someone needs AA. Drunks do that kinda rude stuff all the time. Just be thankful no one was trying to sleep once the pre hangover snoring started.
tophatxj
07-10-2013, 01:52
Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!
You keep wishing for a crime free paradise, and I'll keep carrying a gun.
I've decided to carry a small plastic water pistol on my thru hike. Either an orange (hunter safety) or a green (camoflage) one. I'll probably keep it only half full of water to save weight. I figure it'll come in handy if I get lost and run out of water.
What I have to wonder is not why you didn't report him the next day, but why nobody reported him THAT night. Instead he was allowed to sit and endanger everyone there all night.
Someone shoulda field stripped his weapons and tossed his rounds and machete while he was in a booze induced stupor. Sucks to try and put stuff back together with a raging hangover.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
IrishBASTARD
07-11-2013, 21:42
Sure there is. Being around a drunk who is messing around with loaded weapons-- whether you are sober yourself or not.Anyone surprised that story took place in PA? SADLY THIS HAPPENED IN ANY STATE, AND COULD HAPPEN IN PA WV GA ME MA CT NY NJ VT NC TN NH VA MD, it happens it HAPPENS anywhere on trail. MY ISSUE is this, why didn't one of the four hikers call and report him then? Had issue with some mental case before, and I hiked up and away from him, called the police they came up and arrested him. This reminds me of the beauty spot incident last year, thank god those hikers were trained in take down tactics, if you fear text someone, you're location and the info, have them call the police if afraid. BME YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED, RATHER THEN DOING A DAMNED THING, YOU ASK QUESTIONS. A Pennsylvanian you might be, a true hiker you aren't, a true hiker would help
There was bad weather forecast for the night, thunderstorms and chance for a tornado. I set my tent up between the shelters in case the weather got to windy. This guy Justin and his stepson were in the one shelter. His wife came up later and spent the night. Well Justin was well armed with a machete, sheath knife, pocket knife, BB rifle and a .45 pistol. Justin was sharing his food and drinks with us real backpackers. After drinking 3 40 ounce beers at around 1 am he starts shooting the pistol out of the shelter. Well all 4 of us backpackers were scared, nobody walked over to the shelter that family was in to see what was going on. Justin was planning on staying in the shelter 4 days. I heard the next day police and a park ranger removed them from the trail. Anyone know if he was arrested and charged with any crimes?
I googled for this incident, but I have not found anything.............
Has anyone else, found anything?
Just curious
Armywife
07-11-2013, 23:04
This thread makes me wonder; didn't anyone have a cell phone? According to my reading the AT is practically all on towers now so someone surely had bars. Right?
daddytwosticks
07-12-2013, 07:26
This thread makes me wonder; didn't anyone have a cell phone? According to my reading the AT is practically all on towers now so someone surely had bars. Right? Down here in the south, cell service is very spotty. Depends on carrier and terrain (in gaps, etc). :)
To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.
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To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.
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What about the more serious repercussions? Like getting shot in the forehead by a drunk guy while you're creeping around trying to confiscate his stuff.
What about the more serious repercussions? Like getting shot in the forehead by a drunk guy while you're creeping around trying to confiscate his stuff.
They had already been lucky enough to escape his first round of fireworks. Considering they still elected to spend the night, I would say they put themselves in greater danger and just got lucky. Of course, that is based on the details he provided. I dont know how much he did or did not embellish, but I can tell you that apart from my girlfriend, I havent backpacked with a single person that would not have done what I described. If that is beyond ones willingness to do, then the next smartest move would have been to pack up and move on, even in the dead of night. To stay put in that situation just hoping he wont wake up in a violent mood is a dumb move.
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To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.
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Yea always a smart plan to sneak up on drunks that are shooting off guns, what if he wakes up in your act of trying to get the gun ??? don't know if you have ever been in an AT shelter, but most are a little squeaky... so then you get a confrontation with a drunk that ALWAYS works out right ?? Its easy to be an internet tough guy while setting at your computer, completely different when you there. Next it was night, 1 am, so the person would have to get up and move around pack up there stuff, which would cause noise which might scare the dumbass, your thinking like a normal person, clearly this guy had some issues other then just drunk. I carried when I was on the AT, and I was drunk on the AT a few times, but not one time did I ever think" hey shooting off my gun would be fun!!!" what this guy did takes a special kind of stupid, why they didn't call the cops, good question.... but trying to "take" his gun is just dumb. and clearly if they were removed the next day someone complained and did the right thing..... any other action they did that night might of had HORIBBLE repercussions.
marti038
07-12-2013, 09:32
Honestly, I'm more concerned about running into drunks in the woods than guns (or anywhere for that matter). Seems like most bad stories I hear or have seen firsthand involve alcohol or some other form of substance abuse.
Yea always a smart plan to sneak up on drunks that are shooting off guns, what if he wakes up in your act of trying to get the gun ??? don't know if you have ever been in an AT shelter, but most are a little squeaky... so then you get a confrontation with a drunk that ALWAYS works out right ?? Its easy to be an internet tough guy while setting at your computer, completely different when you there. Next it was night, 1 am, so the person would have to get up and move around pack up there stuff, which would cause noise which might scare the dumbass, your thinking like a normal person, clearly this guy had some issues other then just drunk. I carried when I was on the AT, and I was drunk on the AT a few times, but not one time did I ever think" hey shooting off my gun would be fun!!!" what this guy did takes a special kind of stupid, why they didn't call the cops, good question.... but trying to "take" his gun is just dumb. and clearly if they were removed the next day someone complained and did the right thing..... any other action they did that night might of had HORIBBLE repercussions.
Feel free to re read my post again for a more thorough understanding. You may pick up that I mentioned 2 better scenarios, one of which was to move on immediately if not comfortable with the other suggestion. To simply stay put with no decisive action and praying for the best is dumb and irresponsible. They were lucky.
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And why would discussing why alternatives on an internet forum be any different than discussing them with a backpacking friend in person? I don't speak in a way anywhere else differently than I would face to face with people. no reason for that
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I dont know how much he did or did not embellish, but I can tell you that apart from my girlfriend, I havent backpacked with a single person that would not have done what I described.
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Your other point about just leaving is sensible even though you didn't make that clear in your first post. This point, however, is ridiculous. You're essentially telling people that it's normal to try to disarm a sleeping, unpredictable drunk in a very small space. This is simply NOT good advice. You do come off as an Internet tough guy, but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt considering you and "everyone you've ever hiked with" would do this. That being the case. I'd love for you to share some of your war-hike stories with us now.
Your other point about just leaving is sensible even though you didn't make that clear in your first post. This point, however, is ridiculous. You're essentially telling people that it's normal to try to disarm a sleeping, unpredictable drunk in a very small space. This is simply NOT good advice. You do come off as an Internet tough guy, but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt considering you and "everyone you've ever hiked with" would do this. That being the case. I'd love for you to share some of your war-hike stories with us now.
I dont have any stories like this from the trail. I have been involved in 2 similiar situations back home. I carry so that by itself makes the situation different than the one described although neither time did I expose my firearm.
I no longer carry on the trail for sections because it became logistically impractical.
I still believe the details have been stretched, but if not, then the ONLY other action if your party of 4 is unwilling (or unable) to disarm him after he went into a booze induced slumber, would have been to immediately broken camp and moved on to a place where they felt safer. Choosing the alternative of staying put in the presence of an armed active alcoholic who was shooting indiscriminately was the absolute worst decision that could have been made. They left their fate to chance, KNOWING that they had no way of KNOWING what state he woud have awoken to. They were extremely fortunate, and I can only assume they dont have children at home.
Im pretty sure im no tougher than the next guy, buy I do tend to not get flustered in scenarios that have potential for bad outcomes. This was a dangerous situation which means either fully commit with your group that you will do what's necessary to subdue and disarm him once he went to sleep or pick up stakes and move far enough down the trail to be out of range.
Im sorry, but the course of action they chose was one that removed all control they may have had over the situation and they can feel fortunate to be alive, if again, the details given are completely accurate and havent evolved over time.
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We all have a very finite window of opportunity in circumstances such as these to make the soundest choice possible. If escape is not one of them (which it was), then action using a very short opportunity for violent surprise is the next best alternative. That is standard defensive advice and is pretty well known and accepted.
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I dont mean to belabor (sp?) my point but the OP was very oddly described in an almost non chalant way and suggests a wierd interaction between all of them, even after knowing every weapon he was carrying, down to his pocket knife, the caliber of his firearm, that the other was a bb gun, etc. I get annoyed when serious situations are provided by only one side and the details don't appear to follow logic. Its as if he is simply trying to illicit empathy for his ordeal and I am having trouble with that position.
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Drybones
07-13-2013, 10:32
Your other point about just leaving is sensible even though you didn't make that clear in your first post. This point, however, is ridiculous. You're essentially telling people that it's normal to try to disarm a sleeping, unpredictable drunk in a very small space. This is simply NOT good advice. You do come off as an Internet tough guy, but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt considering you and "everyone you've ever hiked with" would do this. That being the case. I'd love for you to share some of your war-hike stories with us now.
As with dogs, let a sleeping drunk lie...he's no problem for anyone while sleeping.
Blue Mountain Edward
07-13-2013, 14:28
I was gonna camp next to the AT on the mountain top. The 3 other backpackers told me how the weather forecast was hard rain, possible 100 mile per hour winds, chance for a tornado. I still tented and woke up a bit wet. I realised he was not right when he offered me a prescription drug muscle relaxer pill. He said he got respect for life and would not shoot a person but if anyone sees a bear yell and he will shoot it. Woo boy .45 with a 15 shot clip. I did not want a pill and Justin did not share his 4 40 ounce beers. We enjoyed the food and drinks and things were okay until he started firing shots out the front of the shelter in the middle of night. He did not threaten anyone but his reckless gunfire was a threat to all. He made a mess with pepsi cans and broken beer bottles around the shelters. I tried to talk to him the next morning in a calm relaxed way but he was drunk and on drugs.
I was gonna camp next to the AT on the mountain top. The 3 other backpackers told me how the weather forecast was hard rain, possible 100 mile per hour winds, chance for a tornado. I still tented and woke up a bit wet. I realised he was not right when he offered me a prescription drug muscle relaxer pill. He said he got respect for life and would not shoot a person but if anyone sees a bear yell and he will shoot it. Woo boy .45 with a 15 shot clip. I did not want a pill and Justin did not share his 4 40 ounce beers. We enjoyed the food and drinks and things were okay until he started firing shots out the front of the shelter in the middle of night. He did not threaten anyone but his reckless gunfire was a threat to all. He made a mess with pepsi cans and broken beer bottles around the shelters. I tried to talk to him the next morning in a calm relaxed way but he was drunk and on drugs.
I simply don't know what to say. Based on your continued accounts, I have now counted so many red flags, that again, I don't know what to say. I'm obviously glad things turned out as they did....it could have turned out very very differently.
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Game Warden
07-31-2013, 15:56
The National Park Service does work closely with local agencies; I've even done foot patrols along the trail with the "lone ranger." Regarding idiots on the trail, much of the trail in PA is on State Game Lands, which are EXTREMELY regulated--no booze, no round-trip hikers, no disorderly conduct, damage to trees, etc. I'm always happy to get out of the office and into the woods if some one reports a violation. But you have to know where you are and whom to call. If you are on state game lands in SE PA, call 610-926-3136. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.
Pedaling Fool
07-31-2013, 16:37
Where's all the gun lover's posts on this thread?
I only see one.
Here's a story for gun lovers :)
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us/gun-robber-armed-with-bat/index.html
Man armed with bat and knife attempts to rob a gun store -- he fails
By CNN Staff
updated 8:31 PM EDT, Fri July 26, 2013
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
rocketsocks
07-31-2013, 16:53
Here's a story for gun lovers :)
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us/gun-robber-armed-with-bat/index.html
Man armed with bat and knife attempts to rob a gun store -- he fails
By CNN Staff
updated 8:31 PM EDT, Fri July 26, 2013
Awesome...what a jack-ass!
that's like one of the first things you learn when your comin up...don't bring a bat/knife to a gun fight.
Teacher & Snacktime
07-31-2013, 16:58
Awesome...what a jack-ass!
that's like one of the first things you learn when your comin up...don't bring a bat/knife to a gun fight.
I wonder if this will be on Leno for his Stupid Criminals segment....
The National Park Service does work closely with local agencies; I've even done foot patrols along the trail with the "lone ranger." Regarding idiots on the trail, much of the trail in PA is on State Game Lands, which are EXTREMELY regulated--no booze, no round-trip hikers, no disorderly conduct, damage to trees, etc. I'm always happy to get out of the office and into the woods if some one reports a violation. But you have to know where you are and whom to call. If you are on state game lands in SE PA, call 610-926-3136. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.
So an important post is made by a game warden and you guys decide to bury it with chat room entertainment. Thank goodness we are able to repost his message.
Pedaling Fool
07-31-2013, 17:07
So an important post is made by a game warden and you guys decide to bury it with chat room entertainment. Thank goodness we are able to repost his message.And you unburied it, thanks :D
Teacher & Snacktime
07-31-2013, 17:14
..................................
rocketsocks
07-31-2013, 17:28
The National Park Service does work closely with local agencies; I've even done foot patrols along the trail with the "lone ranger." Regarding idiots on the trail, much of the trail in PA is on State Game Lands, which are EXTREMELY regulated--no booze, no round-trip hikers, no disorderly conduct, damage to trees, etc. I'm always happy to get out of the office and into the woods if some one reports a violation. But you have to know where you are and whom to call. If you are on state game lands in SE PA, call 610-926-3136. If you don't report it, we won't know about it.
Bumpin it one time
Sarcasm the elf
07-31-2013, 17:37
The National Park Service does work closely with local agencies; I've even done foot patrols along the trail with the "lone ranger." Regarding idiots on the trail, much of the trail in PA is on State Game Lands, which are EXTREMELY regulated--no booze, no round-trip hikers, no disorderly conduct, damage to trees, etc. I'm always happy to get out of the office and into the woods if some one reports a violation. But you have to know where you are and whom to call. If you are on state game lands in SE PA, call 610-926-3136 (tel:610-926-3136). If you don't report it, we won't know about it.
Game Warden - I am not very familiar with the regulations on PA game lands and am interested to know, what do you mean when you say "no round-trip hikers" ?
Game Warden
07-31-2013, 17:50
Elf, on state game lands, a hiker must go from Point A, to a campsite, and then to Point B. You may not go from Point A, to a campsite, and back to Point A. Camping is prohibited in game lands, except for the AT corridor.
Pedaling Fool
07-31-2013, 19:15
Elf, on state game lands, a hiker must go from Point A, to a campsite, and then to Point B. You may not go from Point A, to a campsite, and back to Point A. Camping is prohibited in game lands, except for the AT corridor.Ok, now I'm confused. What's wrong with that?
Ok, now I'm confused. What's wrong with that?
They are making an accommodation to hikers who are passing through, but don't want to become a destination for locals.
Tuckahoe
07-31-2013, 21:10
They are making an accommodation to hikers who are passing through, but don't want to become a destination for locals.
I would suspect that this is the case.
If anything like Virginia, the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries views their customer base as those sportsmen that buy fishing and hunting licenses and those that have boat registrations. That is who they serve, and the wildlife management areas that they oversee are paid for by the licenses and fees received from the hunters and fishermen.
Well more and more non-spotsmen who are not buying licenses are discovering and using these management areas; like bird watchers and day hikers, and etc. As a result the management areas have become fee areas and an entry fee is collected to use the area, with tne fee waived for those that hold a hunting or fishing license or a boat registration.
I am cool with that. I like to use the public range so I get a small game license, though I have no interest in hunting.