Genuine Help Requested

[Just Bill]

I will start this thread in Straight Talk if needed,but I hope we can police ourselves. As mentioned,I am looking for actual help; despite the Naysayers I have been using this sitefor several years, even though I am a recent member. Map Man and many others have been usefulresources and I hope to tap into that knowledge. Even if you are not a “speed hiker” you mayfind this information useful. My hopethough is that we can keep this thread goat free so that we don’t need to wadethrough too many goat droppings trying to find the one in twenty usefulcomments. Sorry for the rant!
Speedhiker/ Sub60 attempt goals
The primary goal- avoiddelay.
The secondary goal- keepcarried food to 10 pounds or less leaving resupply.
The third goal-maximize “town” calories. It is impracticalto carry enough food to meet your needs, you have to supplement with town foodand calorie bombs as often as possible.
So- hopefully we canall help out with this, and help each other. This site contains so many folks that know their sectionsintimately. I live in Chicago, my memoryis only so good. I think this is atopic/resource that helps everyone- fast, slow, or in between. I will update this spreadsheet- or happilypost a link to the excel sheet once the initial fact checking, error correction,and hopefully additional info pours in.
I put it in a PDF foreasy reading/printing. If you seequestion marks- those are spots, distances, or services I’m not sureabout. Data and trail distances are fromAWOL’s 2013 northbound book.
Alittle further philosophy if you want it;
Carrythe least amount of weight possible; food is by far the heaviest item, followedclosely by other consumables.
In orderto increase trail time; reduce town time and stops.
No hitching;let’s not debate it, it’s part of the deal. As you can see it’s not that hard on the AT. As such; ideal stops are as close to thetrail as possible. Not that hard either,it would probably take longer to hitch than to walk the half mile each way- sowhy discuss it. There is something aboutnot stepping in a vehicle that appeals greatly to most of us, especially thoseof us pushing ourselves.
Find“perfect stops”; ideally a Mail Drop, shower, food, and any other servicesneeded in a one stop shop format. Example;a hostel that has an overnight attendant for late/off-hour arrivals, servesfood, and has showers. Creature comfortslike laundry, tv, internet are nice, but not critical. The downside to perfect stops, you willprobably pay more than a thrifty hiker for the convenience.
MailDrops; let’s not debate the mail drop issue. I eat healthy food, most speedy folks do. At the very least we all have our staples andsupplement with crap to keep up the calories. I also need critical items I can’t get elsewhere on trail. Food; Powdered Gatorade, homemade meals,pinole(homemade), dried fruits, nuts, chia seeds, and high quality beefjerky. Supplies; Leukotape, utralightrefills of other consumables like soap, first aid supplies, gear repairs, newshoes and socks, etc.
Hybrid;that said- other than “staples” I (and most hikers really) use a hybridapproach to resupply. I may go six daysfrom point to point, stocking up on my staples but purchasing other food itemsas I go to supplement and stretch my supplies.
Example: On a stretch like Daleville, Va (723.5) toBears Den Hostel (998.6) you would cover 275.1 miles of trail, at 37 MPD that’s7.5 days of food @ 2 pounds per day (if not more) you have 15 pounds of food. However, 7.5 days of staples, at about apound each, with stops at Big Mommas, all the waysides and resorts in Shenandoahleaves you only carrying about 10 pounds of food or less for that stretch. A speed hiker doesn’t carry all their foodand toss the extras when they encounter some goodies, a speed hiker plans onthe goodies and only carries what they need. (It works for regular hikers too!)
Short Carry; Even ifyou only get a few hot dogs at the stand in New York, it’s one less meal tocarry to that point. If you eat a fewthere, and take a few to go- that’s two less meals carried to that point. Nobody would eat 10lbs of subway in a sitting,but buying 4 footlongs and eating them up over a six hour period is a goodexample of a short carry strategy.
My opinion/experienceonly- regardless of your hiking style; 5 pounds equals 2 MPD. Not a critical number for a regular hike, buta monumental number for a speed hike or record.


22534

[Alligator]

Not trying to be a goat but if you could use the Preview Post button before posting you might better see that your posts could be better formatted. This is difficult to read without proper spacing and my detract from the number of responses that you receive. The Preview Post button does not appear unless you use the Go Advanced button.

[Just Bill]

sigh... I did- it looked okay on my screen in the preview, but once live it still sucked. Got the size down, and figured out attachments, but yeah- I'm hurting. I typed it in the newest version of Word (times new roman), maybe that's the issue, but I can't figure out how to type anything but a blob of text if I type it direct. Making progress over my first post, but still a long trail ahead...

[Alligator]

sigh... I did- it looked okay on my screen in the preview, but once live it still sucked. Got the size down, and figured out attachments, but yeah- I'm hurting. I typed it in the newest version of Word (times new roman), maybe that's the issue, but I can't figure out how to type anything but a blob of text if I type it direct. Making progress over my first post, but still a long trail ahead...On the Go Advanced set of buttons there is a paste from Word button, top row, second from left. I don't normally use that and perhaps you did but it might help. Before that button was added, I found that copying over from Word was problematic. I have not adopted using that button myself so I can't say if it works properly.

Sorry for the difficulties.

[Just Bill]

LETS TRY AGAIN- (I suck, bring on the goats) I will start this thread in Straight Talk if needed,but I hope we can police ourselves. As mentioned,I am looking for actual help; despite the Naysayers I have been using this site for several years, even though I am a recent member. Map Man and many others have been useful resources and I hope to tap into that knowledge. Even if you are not a “speed hiker” you may find this information useful. My hope though is that we can keep this thread goat free so that we don’t need to wade through too many goat droppings trying to find the one in twenty useful comments. Sorry for the rant!
Speedhiker/ Sub60 attempt goals
The primary goal- avoid delay.
The secondary goal- keep carried food to 10 pounds or less leaving resupply.
The third goal-maximize “town” calories. It is impractical to carry enough food to meet your needs, you have to supplement with town food and calorie bombs as often as possible.
So- hopefully we can all help out with this, and help each other. This site contains so many folks that know their sections intimately. I live in Chicago, my memory is only so good. I think this is a topic/resource that helps everyone- fast, slow, or in between. I will update this spreadsheet- or happily post a link to the excel sheet once the initial fact checking, error correction,and hopefully additional info pours in.
I put it in a PDF for easy reading/printing. If you see question marks- those are spots, distances, or services I’m not sure about. Data and trail distances are from AWOL’s 2013 northbound book.
A little further philosophy if you want it;
Carry the least amount of weight possible; food is by far the heaviest item, followed closely by other consumables.
In order to increase trail time; reduce town time and stops.
No hitching; let’s not debate it, it’s part of the deal. As you can see it’s not that hard on the AT. As such; ideal stops are as close to the trail as possible. Not that hard either,it would probably take longer to hitch than to walk the half mile each way- so why discuss it. There is something about not stepping in a vehicle that appeals greatly to most of us, especially those of us pushing ourselves.
Find “perfect stops”; ideally a Mail Drop, shower, food, and any other services needed in a one stop shop format. Example;a hostel that has an overnight attendant for late/off-hour arrivals, serves food, and has showers. Creature comforts like laundry, tv, internet are nice, but not critical. The downside to perfect stops, you will probably pay more than a thrifty hiker for the convenience.
Mail Drops; let’s not debate the mail drop issue. I eat healthy food, most speedy folks do. At the very least we all have our staples and supplement with crap to keep up the calories. I also need critical items I can’t get elsewhere on trail. Food; Powdered Gatorade, homemade meals, pinole (homemade), dried fruits, nuts, chia seeds, and high quality beef jerky. Supplies; Leukotape, utralight refills of other consumables like soap, first aid supplies, gear repairs, newshoes and socks, etc.
Hybrid;that said- other than “staples” I (and most hikers really) use a hybrid approach to resupply. I may go six days from point to point, stocking up on my staples but purchasing other food items as I go to supplement and stretch my supplies.
Example: On a stretch like Daleville, Va (723.5) to Bears Den Hostel (998.6) you would cover 275.1 miles of trail, at 37 MPD that’s7.5 days of food @ 2 pounds per day (if not more) you have 15 pounds of food. However, 7.5 days of staples, at about a pound each, with stops at Big Mommas, all the waysides and resorts in Shenandoah leaves you only carrying about 10 pounds of food or less for that stretch. A speed hiker doesn’t carry all their food and toss the extras when they encounter some goodies, a speed hiker plans on the goodies and only carries what they need. (It works for regular hikers too!)
Short Carry; Even ifyou only get a few hot dogs at the stand in New York, it’s one less meal to carry to that point. If you eat a few there, and take a few to go- that’s two less meals carried to that point. Nobody would eat 10lbs of subway in a sitting, but buying 4 footlongs and eating them up over a six hour period is a good example of a short carry strategy.
My opinion/experience only- regardless of your hiking style; 5 pounds equals 2 MPD. Not a critical number for a regular hike, buta monumental number for a speed hike or record

[theoilman]

I don't like opening unknown attachments - too much danger of viruses, etc. This long rambling post is just that - a hard to read rambling post. The subject implies there is a question, but there is none in the ramble. Is Just Bill asking for something, or asking any question?

[Just Bill]

I really need to write that donation check sooner than later... At least the attachment is clear- that's the main thing. Sorry for the frustration, I'll try your tip next time Alligator, you and I were typing at the same time and I missed it. Looks mainly like a spacing issue, so that paste from word should help.

[Just Bill]

I don't like opening unknown attachments - too much danger of viruses, etc. This long rambling post is just that - a hard to read rambling post. The subject implies there is a question, but there is none in the ramble. Is Just Bill asking for something, or asking any question?
The PDF is clean- better than my posts, lol. I can paste it as an image but that would make it impossible for folks to use, which is the ultimate goal. The rambling post was to set some goals for adding/working on the spreadsheet together. Just so it's clearer- the question is this; What do you think of my resupply spreadsheet and do any of you have any additions, corrections, or hidden trail secrets you'd like to share.

[Storm]

Your PDF seems very thought out. I might be misunderstanding you, are you planning mail drops at most of these places? I'm not an expert but some of them look like very untrustworthy resupply points. ( i.e. "Cookie lady). Do you know that they will all accept mail drops? Also don't understand your last statement that 5 pounds = 2 MPD. Are you saying an EXTRA 5 pounds will cost you 2 MPD?

[Lone Wolf]

when and in which direction will you be tryin' for a record? have you any LD backing experience?

[Just Bill]

Storm- The plan right now is to generate the list of all the possibilities. Not every one is a full resupply, many of them are just places to grab a meal to either supplement or replace carried food. Let's take Cookie Lady- AWOL lists her as a potential resupply. So I list her, but I've never been there personally. Perhaps though you know her well and she is a "open when I'm home" sorta place and we should change her to a food stop, not a resupply. Same goes for anything on the list, each of us knows a spot pretty well and can help firm up the information. Not all the information is rock solid, some is personal experience, some is AWOL, some is other's. Yes- I am saying that, for me personally, I loose about 2MPD, on average, per extra 5 pounds of food I carry. It's my opinion only, but I'm not the first to have it.

[Just Bill]

Lone Wolf- Ideally this year or next- but this sheet and discussion is not for only me- it's set up to be an aid to anyone planning a hike who want's to know all the places you can be "trail supported" I don't care who you are, who want's to carry an extra meal for three days when you know you're about to pass a hot dog stand around dinner time on day 4. Flip this list over, and it's a southbound list. I'm short (for a section hike)- Wind Gap to Harpers, and Waynesboro to Hot Springs (with a few random trips) when it comes to the AT. All in all- about 25 years outdoors and 2500 or so miles backpacking (Paddling, climbing, day hiking, and a few other outdoor pursuits.) My biggest AT hike- Katahdin to Wind Gap in 2001- so my personal info is a bit fuzzy and out of date to say the least. My other thread has more info about me- but I'd like to keep this thread for everyone. It's based upon my personal planning, Map Man's suggest Sub60 record, several other excellent comments and even a few months of wading though posts prior to joining. The goal is to get them all in one place and create a useable PDF for folks to use when planning, or even an Excel sheet to plan more specifically.

[Malto]

I have done a speed hike plan for the AT based roughly on the approach I used for my fast PCT hike. The AT is very easy to minimize food and out of the way resupplies because there are so many. I also make my own energy drink, hence the name Malto, I laid out an approach where I might carry 5 days of Malto and do a regular food resupply on say day three. I also would be a lot less disciplined in eating on the AT since there are so many sources.

one thing that I did on my hike was have planned gear replacements, shoes socks and a couple of other items vs waiting till they were worn out. I likely could have gone longer on several pairs of shoes and sock but I treated it like preventive maintenance for equipment.

one other consideration is where you want to spend a night in town. A typical resupply might be 110 miles and you will have to set up the final day by possibly doing a couple of long days followed by a shorter day. 40,40,30 vs. 37,37,36. It makes perfect sense but this is the type of planning needed to not get stuck in town waiting for a resupply.

[Just Bill]

Malto- I agree 100% on the gear, I'm planning on 6 sets of shoes/socks- my first hike ended with a stress fracture in my shin, the shoes weren't the only factor; but definitely not worth the risk. I think you need to go "overboard" on those items, preventive maintenance is the way to go. Fresh shoes and socks are always a nice moral boost too! I like to switch my base layer, just a mental boost, but having a different shirt makes me feel like a new man. Regarding food- I think your strategy is also a winner, especially on the AT. Carry a "base" of critical, healthy foods to keep you going, but dump any crap you come across into the tank to top it off- a strict diet is bad news IMHO. That's why I'm trying to fill out this list with every possible spot for food, and plan on hitting anything practical along the way. I also know that when you're moving, having a cheat sheet like this along is a huge bonus. It's funny how quickly your mind can desert you- I knew all about Standing Bear Farm before I left on my Tune-up trip, but if I hadn't been waiting for my wife to call me back I would have forgotten about it completely while I was sitting at the I-40 underpass. Plans always change, so a handy sheet is just that- handy. I also agree with your mileage strategy- even though you can't take zeros- setting yourself up for some shorter 3/4 or even 1/2 days like you described makes all the difference. Planning on a shorter day coming into a resupply also helps prevent any delays from previous days piling up. One of the reasons I identified "private" drops was that- at some point- it's unavoidable. So my preference would be private stops that have unlimited hours (hotel with a clerk, hostel with a friendly owner), just in case. Bears Den Hostel is a nice place, but maybe a bust because you can only pick up your drop during office hours- so those are some of the things I'm hoping we can all identify or sort out. On the sheet I'm working on identifying those "perfect" stops that you could recharge your battery and resupply all in one shot. Breaking the hike down into short sections as you described, with a mental carrot like a short day at a good hostel is one of the main goal's of this sheet. Is your trip report/journal from your PCT hike available? I feel like I came across it before, but maybe your name is just familiar from reading this forum.

[Malto]

Here is the link to the journal. Enjoy.
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=b71814d3644eb4e285f4bc3d4a2a27 c5&entry_id=20018