PDA

View Full Version : Kids...with or without? Planning a NOBO '14 Thru Hike



barefootqt
07-23-2013, 20:48
I'm planning to thru hike in the spring and torn with what to do with the kiddo. I've talked to A LOT of like-minded friends, family, and random folks on the subject and have had so many different responses. He will be about 5 and a half years old at the time we begin the hike. As far as his schooling goes, he would begin Kindergarten in August 2014 - I have plans to homeschool so that is not much of an issue. Here are the two options:
A.) he stays here, with a very close and trustworthy family friend. We would see to it that she is left with a power of attorney to be used in case of any medical or other issues should arise. And provide food money and such. In the case that he does not go on the hike, we expect to spend about four months, no longer than five months on the trail as we both have always been fast hikers and we are not planning to spend a lot of time in the towns. B.) he comes along with us. I have no objections to him coming along, but then it becomes HIS hike, not MY hike. I know that sounds very selfish, but I do not mean it in to sound that way (ok maybe a little). Also, we know that if he comes along it will drastically increase our time on the trail and our expenses though neither are much of an issue for us at this time.

Some people have said to bring him, because "you can't just abandon you kid for six months"...of course these would be out non-hiking, non-hippie type friends who simply don't get it and who are entirely opposed to a thru hike, even before the kiddo existed. Then there's the folks who say to wait until he is older...well The Man nor I jive with that. We are both live & live type people and if you want to do something, and have the means to do it--well then do it! You never know what the future holds, and honestly the timing could not be more perfect. Then of course some people say to bring him along.

So I want to know...the good, the bad and the ugly. What is your input? I will not get offended by anything you say, I promise! :)

Lone Wolf
07-23-2013, 20:54
it's a selfish thing to do goin' by yourself

MuddyWaters
07-23-2013, 21:01
I will not get offended by anything you say, I promise! :)

I think your a *** for even considering sending your kid to live with a friend for 4-5 months while you go play.
You arent mature enough to be a parent. A conscientious parent would not do that.

Leaving it with one parent, while another goes is a different story.

Why not just put it in foster care and be done with it?

jjchgo
07-23-2013, 21:35
not meant to pile on but i'm utterly amazed youre considering leaving your child for 4-6 months.

HooKooDooKu
07-23-2013, 21:36
Based on my personal experience camping with my two boys, I would say that 5yo is too young to expect to do a long-distance hike.

Of course every child is different, but roughly speaking, this is what my boys have been like:

Age 4: Simply doesn't have the coordination to safely negotiate the rough and uneven surface of the trials. They can manage short day hikes, but even without a pack, they will trip on roots and rocks about three times every mile and you'll need to hold their hand on any steep descents.

Age 5: Acquired the footwork needed to negotiate day hikes. They will still occasionally trip over roots and rocks, but now about once every 5 miles.

Age 6: Can finally carry a small back-pack (no more than 20% their body weight which should allow for about 10lbs of gear). That's enough to carry the weight of a small back-pack, a sleeping bag, a sleeping pad, and their own cloths. You'll have to carry the rest. Hiking speed will only average about 1 mph, even slower if the terrain is rough.

Age 7: Can still only carry about a 10 lb pack, but can manage at almost an adult pace. Falls are rare. Expect 8 miles to be the maximum daily distance, and even that will wear them out.

Age 8: Can start to carry a little more gear (perhaps add a stove and cook set). Can keep up with an adult (usually did up hill faster than me).

max patch
07-23-2013, 21:51
You have my permission to thru in 13 years.

Until then act like a parent.

slbirdnerd
07-23-2013, 21:56
In a much nicer way: I can't comprehend how you could leave a child that young at home with no parents while you go hiking. Wait until the child is old enough to make the decision to go with you, and mature enough to understand the commitment. My 11 year old can tell you, it sounds a hell of a lot more fun until you actually get on the trail. We were shooting for just 30 miles and made 13. I would never--I COULD never--leave him and thru hike. He is so much more important than that, and the trail always be there later when he is older. My plan is to section for a week or so each summer, and when he is out of school, plan to finish whatever is left as one hike.

Marta
07-23-2013, 22:49
A thru-hike isn't always a barrel of laughs. There's a fair amount of painful slogging involved. Sort of like parenting that way, though the stakes are a lot lower.

Trebor66
07-24-2013, 00:02
If you bring your child along you are almost guaranteed to not finish the trail. By the sounds of it you then will have hard feelings toward your kid for interfering with your dream. Do the both of you a favor and stay at home until you both mature enough to make proper decisions.

shakey_snake
07-24-2013, 00:28
Alternate years.

You go next year, your SO goes the year after.

And don't you dare give me some bull**** about how that'd be bad for your relationship.

hobbs
07-24-2013, 01:19
I agree with shaky snake alternate years. The only people I give a break are military who have to leave their child because deployment..

Hill Ape
07-24-2013, 01:48
i hike, my father bicycles. as a child he pushed me into cycling, and like any boy i craved my fathers approval and attention. i did my first century at 8 years old. at 12 i rode from atlanta to dc, covering the blue ridge parkway and skyline drive. i hated cycling, and still do.

my opinion, you need to do some very long and deep soul searching. not about about hiking.

Onedawg
07-24-2013, 07:20
Troll!


(text added because the post was "too short")

Tuckahoe
07-24-2013, 08:03
In the end you have to be the one that makes the decision one way or the other. My opinion does not matter one way or the other.

I will say I though that I recently read Hiking Through by Paul Stutzman and am now reading On the Beaten Path by Robert Rubin. As you consider your decision you may want to read their books. With these two books the one thing that stands out is the level of guilt and maybe even regret they felt for leaving family behind.

Stutzman lost his wife to cancer and he used his thru-hike as a chance to heal and examine his life. But he was not home when his grown daughter needed him and missed the birth of his first grandchild.

Rubin, burnt out on carreer, hit the trail for his thru-hike and the constant theme throughout seems to be his feeling of guilt that he abandoned his wife and left her to hold things together at home while he went on his thru.

Check them out and take the time to read these.

perdidochas
07-24-2013, 09:44
I'm planning to thru hike in the spring and torn with what to do with the kiddo. I've talked to A LOT of like-minded friends, family, and random folks on the subject and have had so many different responses. He will be about 5 and a half years old at the time we begin the hike. As far as his schooling goes, he would begin Kindergarten in August 2014 - I have plans to homeschool so that is not much of an issue. Here are the two options:
A.) he stays here, with a very close and trustworthy family friend. We would see to it that she is left with a power of attorney to be used in case of any medical or other issues should arise. And provide food money and such. In the case that he does not go on the hike, we expect to spend about four months, no longer than five months on the trail as we both have always been fast hikers and we are not planning to spend a lot of time in the towns. B.) he comes along with us. I have no objections to him coming along, but then it becomes HIS hike, not MY hike. I know that sounds very selfish, but I do not mean it in to sound that way (ok maybe a little). Also, we know that if he comes along it will drastically increase our time on the trail and our expenses though neither are much of an issue for us at this time.

Some people have said to bring him, because "you can't just abandon you kid for six months"...of course these would be out non-hiking, non-hippie type friends who simply don't get it and who are entirely opposed to a thru hike, even before the kiddo existed. Then there's the folks who say to wait until he is older...well The Man nor I jive with that. We are both live & live type people and if you want to do something, and have the means to do it--well then do it! You never know what the future holds, and honestly the timing could not be more perfect. Then of course some people say to bring him along.

So I want to know...the good, the bad and the ugly. What is your input? I will not get offended by anything you say, I promise! :)

Try a weekend backpacking trip, then a week long one with him. I think that will probably change your mind.

Feral Bill
07-24-2013, 09:59
Your wants and dreams are utterly irrelevant. Get over it.

Hill Ape
07-24-2013, 10:32
i'll suspend my disbelief for just a moment. your avatar says you thruhiked in '08. obviously you know about the trail. so where are your priorities mysti? is it more important to you to be a parent to your child, or go thru hike again? or did you postpone your attempt because you had the child, and now you want your life back, needs of the child notwithstanding. it may be time to stop pretending to be a hippie.

tangentally related... for perspective

three years ago i lost my youngest son in a car accident. three days in a coma to be declared legally brain dead. i pulled him screaming into this world, i was the first person he saw when he opened his eyes. and when it came time to sign a fracking piece of paper, i'll be g_d damd if anyone but me was going to make that decision. he is my son, i owed it to him. he would be ten years old now. i postponed a hike "because" of him. i have no regrets about that. the longest hike in my life was carrying my little boy to a hole in the ground. think about that for a little while. you talk about power of attorney like you're making a responsible decision. if something happened, if you weren't there, if you couldn't be contacted. if your child had to be buried before you could say goodbye. how would you feel?

you are talking about abandonment, or a brutal force march on a child that can't make informed consent.

value every moment you have with your children. it can be taken in an instant. children need their parents.

go with god, hike your own hike, raise your own children.

Que Sera
07-24-2013, 10:36
i'll suspend my disbelief for just a moment. your avatar says you thruhiked in '08. obviously you know about the trail. so where are your priorities mysti? is it more important to you to be a parent to your child, or go thru hike again? or did you postpone your attempt because you had the child, and now you want your life back, needs of the child notwithstanding. it may be time to stop pretending to be a hippie.

tangentally related... for perspective

three years ago i lost my youngest son in a car accident. three days in a coma to be declared legally brain dead. i pulled him screaming into this world, i was the first person he saw when he opened his eyes. and when it came time to sign a fracking piece of paper, i'll be g_d damd if anyone but me was going to make that decision. he is my son, i owed it to him. he would be ten years old now. i postponed a hike "because" of him. i have no regrets about that. the longest hike in my life was carrying my little boy to a hole in the ground. think about that for a little while. you talk about power of attorney like you're making a responsible decision. if something happened, if you weren't there, if you couldn't be contacted. if your child had to be buried before you could say goodbye. how would you feel?

you are talking about abandonment, or a brutal force march on a child that can't make informed consent.

value every moment you have with your children. it can be taken in an instant. children need their parents.

go with god, hike your own hike, raise your own children.

Hill Ape, I'm so so sorry for your lost.

Wow...I really hope the OP reads your post.

Que Sera
07-24-2013, 10:37
lost = loss

HikerMom58
07-24-2013, 10:50
i'll suspend my disbelief for just a moment. your avatar says you thruhiked in '08. obviously you know about the trail. so where are your priorities mysti? is it more important to you to be a parent to your child, or go thru hike again? or did you postpone your attempt because you had the child, and now you want your life back, needs of the child notwithstanding. it may be time to stop pretending to be a hippie.

tangentally related... for perspective

three years ago i lost my youngest son in a car accident. three days in a coma to be declared legally brain dead. i pulled him screaming into this world, i was the first person he saw when he opened his eyes. and when it came time to sign a fracking piece of paper, i'll be g_d damd if anyone but me was going to make that decision. he is my son, i owed it to him. he would be ten years old now. i postponed a hike "because" of him. i have no regrets about that. the longest hike in my life was carrying my little boy to a hole in the ground. think about that for a little while. you talk about power of attorney like you're making a responsible decision. if something happened, if you weren't there, if you couldn't be contacted. if your child had to be buried before you could say goodbye. how would you feel?

you are talking about abandonment, or a brutal force march on a child that can't make informed consent.

value every moment you have with your children. it can be taken in an instant. children need their parents.

go with god, hike your own hike, raise your own children.

This post ^^^ deeply touched my emotions!! :( It doesn't get any better than this. Hill Ape shared so much with you, barefootqt, I would take this post very seriously.

Hill Ape
07-24-2013, 14:25
22947

miss you little man.... kid was a natural born hillbilly. i won't be back to this thread, i have a feeling OP was sort of trolling. she hit alot of raw nerves with people. picture was taken at mountaintown creek in ellijay ga, just a few weeks before the accident. last time he walked with me. he was pissed i didn't bring a fishing pole.

max patch
07-24-2013, 14:35
I don't think the OP is a troll. The OP posted once before - 5 years ago or so when they announced their thru - and like many of us want to do it again. I think it was a honest question by someone who has their priorities in the wrong place. The trail will still be there be waiting for them in 13 years.

Lemni Skate
07-24-2013, 14:47
I always wanted to be a head football coach at a high school. I was good assistant and j.v. coach (46 wins, 4 losses over 5 seasons). I was applying for jobs and felt I would soon have one, when my daughter was born. As soon as I held her, I became torn about my dream to be a head football coach. I knew it would take a lot of time away from my family, not a big deal when my wife and I were both pursuing our career dreams, but suddenly a little one made a lot of difference. I was talking about those feelings with my father and he said a sentence that changed my life, "When you get to be my age, you'll never regret any time you spent with your kids." My priorities changed. I quit coaching altogether for a good long while and really spent time raising my kids (my son, believe it or not, has never shown any interest in playing football). When my daughter turned 11 I found out she could run forever (maybe because she was in shape from so much hiking) and fast. To make a long story, short: I'm the CROSS COUNTRY coach at my high school and I've turned the program around. I've very happy with what I do and proud of myself, too. On Friday nights, I watch the football games and sometimes silently tell myself how much better I would have been as the head coach than the guys out there, but I really have no regrets. I've got 16 and 13 year old kids for whom I could fill up a post listing their accomplishments, but the main thing is, I have been there for everything for them. They adore me almost as much as I adore them and they both WANT TO THRU HIKE with Dad in eight more years when I retire. I really don't expect them to be able to do the hike with me, I know at 24 and 21 they'll be starting careers, getting married and whatever else, but just knowing they'd like to and MAYBE one or both of them can (or at least do some) and it's not going to be something I chose for them makes me feel good.

My suggestion, spend this time taking the little guy on some shorter backpacking trips (heck three miles out and set up camp is fine) and make sure he has a blast. Turn over rocks in the streams and look for crawdads, fly fish a little, make some smores, tell some stories, whatever. In five or six years, if you've made great memories like that it's possible he'll be begging you to take him on a thru.

flemdawg1
07-24-2013, 17:23
I just got back from Shenandoah NP after a week of hiking and camping with my kids. My wife and I had previously thought about taking the trip without them, we're really glad we didn't. My advice to you would be to either do section hikes until they can join you for a TH or alternate THs. Yes you might have to put off your dream, but your child will always know you're there for them.

Slo-go'en
07-24-2013, 21:13
I don't see what the big deal is.

It's not like the kid is a baby or toddler which needs constant attention. The kid is going to being looked after, not abandoned on the streets. Gezz. And who knows, maybe living at the friends for the summer might be benifical.

And we all know the chances of them actually being away for 6 months is a long shot. But I guess I got to agree, the timing isn't great. Unless there are strong compeling reasons to take the trip next year, it might be best to wait a few more years until your son is more self suficent. And maybe old enough to come along.

Lone Wolf
07-24-2013, 21:16
pretty simple. you chose to have a kid. stay home and raise that child. your little dream of walkin' the trail can wait. thru-hikin' the AT ain't all that anyway

Feral Bill
07-24-2013, 23:41
You might ask any of our veterans returning from long and multiple deployments what they think about missing big chunks of their kids lives.

chief
07-25-2013, 00:21
Poor hippy kid doesn't stand a chance

tophatxj
07-25-2013, 04:31
You're a ****ing scumbag to even consider something like this.
Ditch your kid for 6 months so you can **** off and "live your dream" for 6 months or force him to walk through the woods for 6 months for your pleasure.

5 years old are you ****ting me?

I'd like to say more, but don't want to be banned.

tophatxj
07-25-2013, 04:33
At second thought, the kid might be better off being raised by someone else anyway.

Go ahead on your hike it might be the only chance your kid has at a responsible upbringing.

rickb
07-25-2013, 07:21
Yikes.

Not so much for the original poster, but reading this thread does remind me how special people can find a way to include small children into their lifestyles. For those who are not familiar with this book by Cindy Ross, you might want to check this link: http://www.amazon.com/Scraping-Heaven-Familys-Journey-Continental/dp/0071373608

Tuckahoe
07-25-2013, 08:25
You're a ****ing scumbag to even consider something like this.
Ditch your kid for 6 months so you can **** off and "live your dream" for 6 months or force him to walk through the woods for 6 months for your pleasure.

5 years old are you ****ting me?

I'd like to say more, but don't want to be banned.

Was that really necessary?

HikerMom58
07-25-2013, 08:34
Was that really necessary?

Someone else gets to decide, Tuck... ;)

HikerMom58
07-25-2013, 08:35
22947

miss you little man.... kid was a natural born hillbilly. i won't be back to this thread, i have a feeling OP was sort of trolling. she hit alot of raw nerves with people. picture was taken at mountaintown creek in ellijay ga, just a few weeks before the accident. last time he walked with me. he was pissed i didn't bring a fishing pole.

Sweet lookin boy Hill Ape! :)

Tuckahoe
07-25-2013, 08:52
I am not a parent and can never fully imagine the feelings and emotions involved with being a parent and how deeply those of you that are parents love your kids. Hill Ape's post has affected me more than anyother I have read on this forum and reading the post made me think of my dad's motorcycle accident and the emotional roller coaster that was. I never gave a second thought to canceling backpacking trips that summer; and three years later I get a feeling of worry and guilt just planning a week long trip.

Lemni Skates also hit a cord with me as I so often think of the things in my dad's life that he gave up or sacrificed for us kids, without ever a second thought. I and my brother and sister are rare navy brats, because we never moved. Seventeen years of my dad's navy career were in Norfolk and when they wanted to send us to Bahrain or the Great Lakes, he he retired rather than uproot us kids from the place we were born and raised. He loved the navy and gave it up for us.

And with those in mind, I think that Slo-go'en has a point as well. I do not think its necessarily a bad thing, and can be beneficial all around.



i'll suspend my disbelief for just a moment. your avatar says you thruhiked in '08. obviously you know about the trail. so where are your priorities mysti? is it more important to you to be a parent to your child, or go thru hike again? or did you postpone your attempt because you had the child, and now you want your life back, needs of the child notwithstanding. it may be time to stop pretending to be a hippie.

tangentally related... for perspective

three years ago i lost my youngest son in a car accident. three days in a coma to be declared legally brain dead. i pulled him screaming into this world, i was the first person he saw when he opened his eyes. and when it came time to sign a fracking piece of paper, i'll be g_d damd if anyone but me was going to make that decision. he is my son, i owed it to him. he would be ten years old now. i postponed a hike "because" of him. i have no regrets about that. the longest hike in my life was carrying my little boy to a hole in the ground. think about that for a little while. you talk about power of attorney like you're making a responsible decision. if something happened, if you weren't there, if you couldn't be contacted. if your child had to be buried before you could say goodbye. how would you feel?

you are talking about abandonment, or a brutal force march on a child that can't make informed consent.

value every moment you have with your children. it can be taken in an instant. children need their parents.

go with god, hike your own hike, raise your own children.


I always wanted to be a head football coach at a high school. I was good assistant and j.v. coach (46 wins, 4 losses over 5 seasons). I was applying for jobs and felt I would soon have one, when my daughter was born. As soon as I held her, I became torn about my dream to be a head football coach. I knew it would take a lot of time away from my family, not a big deal when my wife and I were both pursuing our career dreams, but suddenly a little one made a lot of difference. I was talking about those feelings with my father and he said a sentence that changed my life, "When you get to be my age, you'll never regret any time you spent with your kids." My priorities changed. I quit coaching altogether for a good long while and really spent time raising my kids (my son, believe it or not, has never shown any interest in playing football). When my daughter turned 11 I found out she could run forever (maybe because she was in shape from so much hiking) and fast. To make a long story, short: I'm the CROSS COUNTRY coach at my high school and I've turned the program around. I've very happy with what I do and proud of myself, too. On Friday nights, I watch the football games and sometimes silently tell myself how much better I would have been as the head coach than the guys out there, but I really have no regrets. I've got 16 and 13 year old kids for whom I could fill up a post listing their accomplishments, but the main thing is, I have been there for everything for them. They adore me almost as much as I adore them and they both WANT TO THRU HIKE with Dad in eight more years when I retire. I really don't expect them to be able to do the hike with me, I know at 24 and 21 they'll be starting careers, getting married and whatever else, but just knowing they'd like to and MAYBE one or both of them can (or at least do some) and it's not going to be something I chose for them makes me feel good.

My suggestion, spend this time taking the little guy on some shorter backpacking trips (heck three miles out and set up camp is fine) and make sure he has a blast. Turn over rocks in the streams and look for crawdads, fly fish a little, make some smores, tell some stories, whatever. In five or six years, if you've made great memories like that it's possible he'll be begging you to take him on a thru.


I don't see what the big deal is.

It's not like the kid is a baby or toddler which needs constant attention. The kid is going to being looked after, not abandoned on the streets. Gezz. And who knows, maybe living at the friends for the summer might be benifical.

And we all know the chances of them actually being away for 6 months is a long shot. But I guess I got to agree, the timing isn't great. Unless there are strong compeling reasons to take the trip next year, it might be best to wait a few more years until your son is more self suficent. And maybe old enough to come along.

BobTheBuilder
07-25-2013, 09:10
I'm not sure that I would make decisions about my kids based on the feedback from an internet chat board.

Water Rat
07-25-2013, 09:13
Not sure the OP is even reading at this point... But, what does your kid think of the idea? Is he good with separation, or will it be traumatic for him? I should think that the kid would have something to say on the topic.

DandT40
07-25-2013, 10:05
Not sure the OP is even reading at this point...

You mean when people troll others on message boards they don't even go back to see the results? Stop feeding the trolls everyone...

Fortunately Hill Ape's post is worth the price of admission to this thread and gives some great perspective to all us parents. Sorry for your loss but thanks for sharing your story.

Ender
07-25-2013, 10:55
Shutting this thread. Can only go downhill from here. Thanks to Hill Ape for the touching story though.