Tarp Question

[Studlintsean]

Im hoping some of the more experienced tarping folks can help me out. I recently picked up a cheap 8X10 tarp (Equinox) to give tarping a try. I have been messing around with the tarp quite a bit around my house before taking out in the woods. I was using some line and stakes I had lying around at the house and could get a pretty nice A- frame pitch (both on ground and raised) and a half pyramid. I liked what I was seeing with the tarp so I went and picked up some new stakes ( I was using the stakes that came with the tarptent contrail) and guylines. When I went to set up the tarp last night I was able to set up the A-frame raised using the pre cut guylines but I realized the MSR groundhog stakes I picked up would not fit in the grommets in the tarp and therefore I was having a hard time pitching an A- fram or half pyramid directly to the ground. I was able to lower the A-frame pretty close to the ground but with a nasty side wind/rain im sure I a directly on the ground pitch would be preferred. Besides the obvious (buy a new tarp or new stakes), any suggestions or ways to utilize the guylines but still get the at ground pitch?

Thanks and any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[jeffmeh]

How about a small loop of shock cord tied to each grommet you want to stake down?

[Just Bill]

How about a small loop of shock cord tied to each grommet you want to stake down?

+1 I use tent pole shock cord on all my stake points regardless of shelter. The little bounce helps prevent blown stakes or over stressed corners on lightweight fabrics and helps sil-nylon stay taught overnight as it sags. If you can't find some locally I buy it from Thru-Hiker or quest outfitters. 1/8" dia.

[Alligator]

A similar problem you might encounter is using your trekking poles and not being able to get the tip through the grommet. A small loop can help there as well.

[Studlintsean]

Thanks for the replies. That is kind of what I was thinking but I was leaning more towards small loops at the very front of each guyline which is already connected. I will look into the shock cord idea. As for the trekking poles, I am able to get the tips into the grommets but thanks for the suggestion.

[Just Bill]

Loops on the grommets/tie offs- that way if you choose stake or guyline at that point you still get the protection/benefits of the shockcord. In addition if you choose to pitch differently you have extra options. I leave a simple overhand loop on the ends of my guylines to reduce the number of knots I need to tie. The stretch of the shock cords keeps everything tight, most pitches require no new knots.

[coach lou]

Bill, I use a tarp.....since I was 10. I like your loop idea.....I may give it a try!:-?

[daddytwosticks]

...or pick up some cheap aluminum shepard's hook stakes from Wal-Mart or other big box store. :)

[Just Bill]

Bill, I use a tarp.....since I was 10. I like your loop idea.....I may give it a try!:-?

If you go basic A-frame or variation- 4" loops on minor points- 8" loops on the ridge has been about right. My first tarps were all TNF footprints I bought on clearance at the outlet- so they already had the stretch built in- couldn't figure out why my pitches were so ****ty when I switched to a regular tarp, lol. On a bigger tarp I sometimes double up the ridge loop- takes that late night sag right out on dewy nights.

[Dogwood]

Good tips folks! I've been meaning to try that out JM and JB. I just have to figure out how not add in another backbreaking knee buckling 1 oz to my shelter system doing it.:)

[Dogwood]

JB, you nailed it Score 10 10 10 10 10. You hit the landing too by answering all my questions.

[Just Bill]

JB, you nailed it Score 10 10 10 10 10. You hit the landing too by answering all my questions.

Well then- I'm going for the bonus round, shock cord available from Thru-hiker-http://thru-hiker.com/materials/rollgoods.php 1/8" is listed at .20 oz/yd, 1/16" is listed at .10/yd. 4 corners and two main ridges- (4x4" +2x8"= 32") @ 1/8" = .2 ounces. Do your mid point and lifter tie offs (if that's your thing)- (8 x 4"= 32") @ 1/16"= .1 ounces. All tie offs shocked and loaded- .30 ounces. Add the extra loops at the ridge- 2x8"= 16" @ 1/8" =.1 ounce. OR- Go Crazy and do the whole thing in 1/8" for well under 3/4 of an ounce.

[Just Bill]

...or pick up some cheap aluminum shepard's hook stakes from Wal-Mart or other big box store. :)
Galvanized or aluminum Pole Barn Nails at the lumber store (40d or 60d)- scout troops can buy them by the 50lb box and never cry about lost tent stakes again! Edit- the liddle d stands for penny- 40d is a 40penny nail for you non carpenter types (typed little that way on porpoise)

[Dogwood]

That would make you the grand prize winner of this brand new never been used your very own - authentic close to matching the real thing shiny silver plastic secret decoder ring. Just send $9.95 for postage, packaging, and handling and I'll send it off today to you. You even got the wt of the various shock cord thrown in. Ferris, I mean JustBill, you're my hero.

[Just Bill]

Well, at least I don't need to buy any ovaltine to get my prize, I'll send the money shortly.

[Dogwood]

Stretchy shock cord is prolly going to make a grommeted tarp hold up better too rather than just tying off with static cord.

[Dogwood]

LOL :You've been watching too much late night game show channel reruns in order to catch on to what I was saying.

[Dogwood]

We've got to hike the same trail at the same time. Notice I said nothing about hiking together? I suspect we would either have a blast or throw each other into the campfire ring.

[Just Bill]

Depending on how much we're drinking we'd have a blast on our hands even if one of us goes into the fire- I'm sure we'd both survive it though.

[Studlintsean]

Just Bill- Do happen to have a picture or can you explain better how your attaching the shock cord to the grommets? Im not quite following.

[Just Bill]

As mentioned, I use about 4" loops, about 6" of cord I suppose for minor points, and 8" loops, about 10" cord for main points. I do this for all of my shelters, not just tarps. (I've found this method lets me get away with 1.1 oz sil-nylon without the typical seam stress) On a tarp though you may want to double up at the ridge on an A-frame if you are getting sag, mostly with lighter sil-nylon tarps in shoulder season. You can either use two loops or fold a longer loop in half (4 pieces of shockcord total). Tie them at half to 3/4 stretch and like a rubber band they will keep your ridgeline taut. Don't over stretch them or you are loosing their bouncy protection during wind gusts or late night bathroom stumbles. Attach to the shock cord using whatever method you prefer, just pretend it's a grommet.22968If pics aren't clear enough PM me, I couldn't upload a full rez document because of the file size.

[Dogwood]

Sag problem is also solved by proper taut equally tensioned guyout pitches and using cuben tarps.

[Just Bill]

Sag problem is also solved by proper taut equally tensioned guyout pitches and using cuben tarps.

That's cheating. But def. one of the main reasons to go CF for a tarp in my book.

[Studlintsean]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated and ill pick up some of this cord before I get the tarp out this fall when the bugs die down a bit.

[Dogwood]

I'm thinking about the shock cord from the perspective of also reducing stress on the tarp although it sounds like it would certainly help with sag too if that's an issue for ya. I don't know if this idea has been posted in Backpacker Mag yet but I wouldn't be utterly surprised to see it in one of the near future gear articles! I've noticed it happening before. They don't come up with all their articles and info all by themselves.

[Just Bill]

Well, with you as my witness I should have a successful suit against BM! (note the clever abbreviation) My original "tarps" we just TNF footprints with the stretchy attachments sewn on, so I stole from them I suppose. But yea, the main reason I use them is not to fight sag, but to protect delicate fabrics. When I started using Sil-Nylon I found too much stress on tie-outs forming, rather than give up and go to a heavier version, I added the shock cords and haven't had problems since. Works on my tarps and bivy sacks too. Keeping them at half tension or so keeps everything tight, but more importantly protects delicate fabrics from thread elongation due to over-tension, bumping into it, or gusting wind. I haven't ever had enough stress for a true blowout, but the shock corded points no longer have any thread elongation. Although I don't have much CF experience, when I do perfect my designs I will be making the switch. With the shock cords I anticipate being able to use the light .51 oz CF, but for financial reasons I think I will stick with the .7 oz weight above ground and the 1oz for floors/ground sheets to be safe. I think most tarp folks realize that a "lazy" pitch is fine for most situations, but a tarp gets trashed fast in a storm without a drum tight pitch, the shock cords definitely reduce damage from over-eager tarp tensioners in my experience (used to work with a lot of scouts who like to crank on everything).

[Dogwood]

What you say here is not protected. This is a public forum on a privately owned web site. I sometimes have to be reminded of that.

[Just Bill]

LOL- only at night for your reminders I'm guessing:D No biggie- that's a five dollar idea, if BM wants to put in in one of their "articles" it's about the perfect length for an in depth piece for their new format. Speaking of million dollar ideas though- back to the sewing machine- need to get my new tent and pack done, do some local trips and see if can get myself up to a Long Trail in a muddy state... STUDLINT- can you post some pics of your studly belly button lint to keep Dogwood entertained while I'm away?

[jeffmeh]

I have been doing this type of thing with tarps for decades. If someone decides to write an article on it, I wouldn't sweat it. :)

[Studlintsean]

I was able to pick up some shock cord tonight and ill try to rig up the tarp this weekend. Sorry Dogwood, you're on your own. Thanks again.

[Just Bill]

I have been doing this type of thing with tarps for decades. If someone decides to write an article on it, I wouldn't sweat it. :)

Have you tried some of the lightweight Cuben with the shock cord trick? When BM calls to publish the article I'll send half the free subscription your way.

[Dogwood]

He's fresh out of belly button lint. been using it all for firestarter. I got some toenail fungus, blister, and cactus needle impalement pics to entertain us though.

[daddytwosticks]

He's fresh out of belly button lint. been using it all for firestarter. I got some toenail fungus, blister, and cactus needle impalement pics to entertain us though. You forgot earwax...great fire starter. :)

[Studlintsean]

He's fresh out of belly button lint. been using it all for firestarter. I got some toenail fungus, blister, and cactus needle impalement pics to entertain us though.

Im trying to lower my skin out weight so I already cleared it out before I hit the trail

[Studlintsean]

Finally got the tarp out last night for a Sunrise hike of Old Rag. Here is a photo .By the way the shock cord idea works great but I left my stakes at home by accident last night so I had to improvise with trees and rocks. It worked out surprisingly well.2421424215 Thanks again