3 Day/4 Night Route Possibilities

[Wanderlust77]

Hello all...

I am looking for some help planning a 3 day/4 night hike through the Smokies for the end of September. We are looking at beginning on a Tuesday and ending on Friday. We are looking to do 10ish miles per day. This will be my friends first hiking trip and really want to make it memorable. The views are what we are really looking for. It seems the one commonality I am seeing in most recommendations I have read has been Gregory Bald. Any ideas?

[SGT Rock]

Do you want it to be a loop?

[Namtrag]

Is this Gregory Bald area in the park so you have to get a permit?

[SGT Rock]

Permits are needed to camp. So one could hike to Gregory Bald without a permit, but to camp near there you would need one.

[Namtrag]

Permits are needed to camp. So one could hike to Gregory Bald without a permit, but to camp near there you would need one.

Thanks, Rock!

[Wanderlust77]

Sorry Sarge, a loop would be preferable simply to save the cost of a shuttle. But that's not set in stone. If a shuttle hike will get us more sights, I would say lets do the shuttle.

[SGT Rock]

I just realize you said 4 night and 3 days. So want about 30 miles of hiking with a camp on each end, or did you mean 4 days and three nights? By your post I think you want 4 days and three nights.

[Wanderlust77]

Jeez...I didn't even realize I said that. I have it backwards, it should have read three night four day.

[SGT Rock]

Let me make a suggestion that doesn't include Gregory Bald, although it is a nice place. I would suggest parking at the Tunnel to Nowhere near Bryson City and hike through the tunnel to 74 for your first night. That would only be about 3 miles of walking so you are not rushed. Then the next day walk up Bear Creek trail to Forney Creek Trail and stay at 68, it would be a nice walk and about 10 miles I think. That would be a nice creek walk for the most part. Day three you will walk up Forney Creek and pass the cascade, then get up to Forney Ridge Trail and walk down it through Andrews Bald. At Springhouse Branch go east and camp down at campsite 64. That would be about 10 miles or so +/-. The last day hike down Noland Creek past the chimneys, cemeteries, and bridges to Lakeshore Drive and do a short road walk back to your car. The hike that day would be about 5 miles, so an easy day your last day.

[SGT Rock]

And if you are feeling your oats, you could make a side trip to Clingman's Dome on day 3.

[Wanderlust77]

That sounds pretty good, Sarge. So far that's at the top of the list. I just posted another thread looking for pretty much the same thing but opening the range to include GSMNP and everything to the south.

thanks again!!

[HooKooDooKu]

If it's views that you want, and don't mind paying for a shuttle, from what I've read, the following might be something of a "Grand View Tour":
Day 1: Park at the trail head to Gregory Bald Trail. Get a shuttle to Clingman's Dome parking lot. Hike to Clingman's Dome, then follow the AT east to Derrick Knob Shelter.
Day 2: Continue on the AT to either Russle Field or Mollies Ridge shelter.
Day 3: Continue on the AT to Doe Knob. Then follow Gregory Bald Trail to campsite #13 (don't forget the side trip to Moore Spring)
Day 4: Return to Gregory Bald, then proceed down to your car via Gregory Ridge Trail.

An alternative to the short Day 4 hike is to park at the Cades Cove Ranger Station. Then simply change the last day to hike over Gregory Bald to Doe Knob, then the AT and Russle Field Trail to return to your car. This should save some money on the shuttle as it would cut at LEAST an hour out of the time the shuttle service would have to spend driving the Cades Cove Loop.

[sliderule]

Hello all...

I am looking for some help planning a 3 day/4 night hike through the Smokies for the end of September. We are looking at beginning on a Tuesday and ending on Friday.

How does Tuesday - Friday amount to three days and four nights?


We are looking to do 10ish miles per day. This will be my friends first hiking trip and really want to make it memorable.

Ten miles per day in the Smokies WILL be memorable for a first-time hiker. I guarantee it.

[TNhiker]

Ten miles per day in the Smokies WILL be memorable for a first-time hiker. I guarantee it.



agreeded...........

if you take a friend who has never hiked on a ten mile day for 3 days----im pretty sure you wont return as friends.....

i'd cut it to 5 to 8 miles per day....

or start with a 10 miler day, then back it down each day.......

[Wanderlust77]

I corrected day/night thing in a later post. And he's a recon Marine...I'm not sure I will be able to keep up...lol

[HooKooDooKu]

I've hiked both the Gregory Bald area and the Forney Creek area. IMHO, a trip to Gregory Bald is better than a trip along Forney Creek. For starters, Andrews Bald only has about a 180 degree view, where as Gregory Bald has a 360 degree view. Gregory is also a larger and clearer bald than Andrews. Second, the only other memerable thing doing Forney Creek is a nice water slide and the intrest in several deep creek crossings (all the creek crossing of Forney Creek are unbridged).

And unless your friend is a very strong hiker, I would agree to the suggestion of cutting back to 5 to 8 miles per day.

Unfortunately, most loop hikes I've come up with over the years limiting distances to 5 to 8 miles per day are either two night hikes, or 4+ night hikes.


Given all that, here's my best suggestion:
Do a two night loop hike from Twenty Mile Ranger Station to camp site #113 (with a side trip to Shuckstack) to Gregory Bald, to camp site #13 and back to Twenty Mile Ranger Station. Then add another day of day hikes either at the start or end of your trip.
If you don't want to stay in a hotel that 3rd night, you could spend the 1st day seeing Cades Cove with a day hike to Abram Falls (4 mile round trip). Late in the afternoon, exit Cade Cove via Parson Branch Road and drive to Twenty Mile Ranger Station. Hike to camp site #93 for your first night. Then complete the circle staying at #113 & #13.
Day 2:

[sliderule]

I corrected day/night thing in a later post. And he's a recon Marine...I'm not sure I will be able to keep up...lol

I see. A recon Marine…on his first hiking trip. You can fool some of the people some of the time...

[gollwoods]

start at big creek ranger station.
head up chestnut branch to A T see Mt camerer, spend night at Cosby shelter.
day 2 west on A T to pecks
day three Mt leconte passing the charlies bunion and also the jump off.
day 4 out at the rainbow falls trail head passing by rainbow falls.

[HooKooDooKu]

I'm planning a loop hike myself to Mount Sterling. That combined with gollwoods' suggestion gave me the following idea:
Day 1: Start at Big Creek Ranger Station, hike up Chestnut Branch to the AT and see Mt camerer, spend the night at Cosby Shelter
Day 2: Follow the AT to Mount Guyot, then go off trail following some of the man-ways to the top of Mount Guyot and find the geological survey marker. Mount Guyot is the highest mountain East of the Mississippi River without a trail to the top (reason I'm interested in this trip some day). Note that from what I've read online, you're likely to be spending some time climbing over downed trees and generally slow going (it's a lot more difficult than it looks on a map). Spend the night at Tricorner Knob.
Day 3: Hike Balsam Mtn Trail to Mount Sterling Ridge Trail to camp site #38 and climb the fire tower.
Day 4: Hike down Baxter Creek back to your car.

This "Adventure" allows you to see Mount Camerer Fire Tower (great views, pretty tower), go off trail to Mount Guyot (a place not frequented since there is no trail, plus the fun challenge of seeking the USGS Marker), a stay at Tricorner Knob (considered to be the most remote shelter in the Park), and a climb up into the 60' Mt Sterling Fire Tower. It's a loop to boot (no shuttle).

[madgoat]

HooKooDooKu, that sounds like a great trip. I like everything about it except going down Baxter Creek and going up Chestnut Branch, but they are necessary evils. That stretch of the AT with Cammerer, Guyot and Old Black is fantastic. That is one of the few places in the park that you can do a loop hike that keeps you up on the ridgelines for so long. Balsam mtn is a great ridgeline hike, and so is Mt. Sterling ridge. That is pretty close to the perfect trip.

I have only gone down Chestnut Branch, and I recall it being steep, heavily eroded trench of a trail. Maybe my perception of the trail was somewhat flavored by the buckets of rain that were cascading down upon me.

[HooKooDooKu]

you're likely to be spending some time climbing over downed trees and generally slow going (it's a lot more difficult than it looks on a map).
I've done some research on trying to summit Mt Guyot. Here's a few examples of some information I've been able to find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nTtLqROEQ
http://exploro-orbis-terrarum.smugmug.com/Great-Smoky-Mountains/Mt-Guyot/12151111_SMSDpD#!i=863400940&k=r9qrcQd
http://www.peakbagger.com/climber/ascent.aspx?aid=291286
http://www.peakbagger.com/climber/ascent.aspx?aid=272265
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-guyot/710504

Pretty much everything I've read described getting to the top a bush-whack and you don't get any views once your on the top. So the only reason to climb to Guyot summit is simply so that you can say you've been there.

[BigMW]

I know when I plan a trip car travel time comes into play. Since you are from Florida, I believe the south west or south central part of the GSMNP would be preferrable.

Given your preference for views, and a loop hike, I would park at Fontana Dam and make it a short day (approximately 4.7 miles) by hiking to #113, Birch Spring Gap campsite. Along the way, on the AT, partial views are offerred along the trail and atop Shuckstack firetower there are full 360 degree views (including Fontana Lake). The second day, from #113, you take the AT to the Gregory Bald Trail to #13, Sheep Pen Gap (approximately 6.3 miles). There are 360 views from atop Gregory Bald (both day and night). Plus, if it is a clear night atop the bald, the light pollution is minimal, so the night reveals a starlit sky where the milky way can be seen as well (we saw this in October of 2007). On the trip in 2007, I also woke up early to see the sunrise on the bald which was equally spectacular. From here, you can double back to the Long Hungry Ridge trail or continue on the GBT to the Wolf Ridge trail and down to any one of numerous campsites (probably #93 or #92), returning your final day to the Shuckstack firetower for one more beautiful view on your way to Fontana Dam.

You could also start at the Twentymile ranger station and do this trip in reverse, depending on what suits your travel schedule.

[HooKooDooKu]

HooKooDooKu, that sounds like a great trip. I like everything about it except going down Baxter Creek and going up Chestnut Branch
Took my boys on the Big Creek/Swallow Fork/Baxter loop this past weekend.

Baxter wasn't too bad. It was a little slick in spots from the rain the night before. But Big Creek awaits you to cool off once you get to the bottom. Now I'll admit my calves are pretty sore today, but it was worth it.

Perhaps Baxter didn't seem that bad after hiking part of Mt. Sterling Ridge the day before. I've hiked about 40% of all the 'official' GSMNP trails, and Mt. Sterling Ridge was the absolute worst mile of trail I've ever hiked in GSMNP. The trail kept swapping from rocky to muddy (and I mean DEEP mud the entire width of the trial with no place to walk around) interlaced with horse $#!^.

The saving grace is that the apex of Mt. Sterling is off limits to horses (riders are required to leave their mounts at a hitching post about 0.1 miles before the top of the mountain, and it looked like recent riders had been following that requirement).

We got to set up our tent at the fire pit that's almost right under the fire tower. The 1st time I've ever setup a tent on grass.

BTW, anyone staying at Mt. Sterling take note: The water source for the camp site is a total of 0.4 miles away from the camp site. You hike down Baxter Creek about 0.25 miles, where you will encounter a sign pointing you down a 0.15 mile long trail. I avoided the extra 0.8 mile round trip for water by noting where Swallow Fork Trail crossed the creek at the highest point along the trail and cameled up on water there and tried to be conservative for the rest of the trip. (Made it down Baxter Creek with 8oz to spare)

[harmonjazzman]

My girlfriend and I are looking for a similar trip in GSMNP. We plan to leave early Fri 10/4. We'd like to hike Sat, Sun, and Mon, ending with a nice cabin or cottage stay on our last night. Tues, drive home. Apx 10mi days would be ideal, but we can handle more (our longest to date being 20mi). She's very set on at lease one night in a cabin, so my real question is: Are there any hike-to-cabins or anything accessible from GSMNP trails?

[Rasty]

My girlfriend and I are looking for a similar trip in GSMNP. We plan to leave early Fri 10/4. We'd like to hike Sat, Sun, and Mon, ending with a nice cabin or cottage stay on our last night. Tues, drive home. Apx 10mi days would be ideal, but we can handle more (our longest to date being 20mi). She's very set on at lease one night in a cabin, so my real question is: Are there any hike-to-cabins or anything accessible from GSMNP trails?

Drive or Hike? Tons of cabins near Gatlinburg, Cherokee or Bryson City. Also check out the Fontana Village Resort. http://www.fontanavillage.com/accommodations/cabins.html The Village is about 1-1/2 miles off the Trail

[harmonjazzman]

hookoodooku posted this on another thread...thinking something like that with a stay in the village for our final day...

"The single best loop hike I've ever done (so far) in the Smokies is a 2 night loop from TwentyMile Ranger station to Gregory Bald.
The distances for this loop are a little on the low end of what you are looking for, so I would suggest starting with Twentymile Trail. At the intersection with the AT and Lost Cove Trail, turn right and check out Shuckstack fire tower. Then head back up the AT and spend the 1st night at campsite 113. The second day, continue on the AT to Doe Knob, then turn left to go to Gregory Bald spending the 2nd night at #13 just a short distance from the bald. Then finish the loop with Wolf Ridge. With this trip, you'll get some great views from Shuckstack tower (if you're brave enough to climb the stairs) and Gregory Bald. What's also cool is that once you're on Gregory Bald, you can see Shuckstack tower (where you were the day before)."

[TNhiker]

"Are there any hike-to-cabins or anything accessible from GSMNP trails?"


Depends upon what you mean by "cabin"

If you mean cabin as in developed amenities and such, asnoted above, the area has a ton of rental cabins all around the park...

Now if you mean rustic cabin, the closest you come to this in the park is the lodge up top leconte (although it does have limited amenties).....or if you want real rustic, the closest you'd come is a shelter....

Also if you have a bunch of money (think 4 bills a night), there's a place over in cataloochee that is right off a trail.....

[harmonjazzman]

Thanks! Checked out Leconte, they're booked for like a year... I think We're actually just going to camp 3 nights instead of the cabin.

Is there parking at or near Fontana Dam?

I think we'll start there, hike about 6 mi to #113 and camp.
Day 2: 5-6 mi to Gregory Bald and camp at #13.
Day 3: 7-8 mi to #93.
Final Day: about 8 mi back to car.

We'll get to see Shuckstack Tower and Gregory Bald, along with a [very] small stint on the AT.

[HooKooDooKu]

Thanks! Checked out Leconte, they're booked for like a year... I think We're actually just going to camp 3 nights instead of the cabin.
LeConte Lodge will start booking for the 2014 on Oct 1, 2013. You can attempt to get a reservation by emailing a request now, or waiting until Oct. 1st and attempt to call them on the phone. On Oct 1st, there will effectively be two operators, one filling requests by phone, the other randomly selecting email requests that were received by the end of September. If you get a reservation, a bill is sent to you that isn't due until the 1st of Nov.


Is there parking at or near Fontana Dam?
You can park on the south side of the dam where the visitor's center has lots of parking. You can also drive across the dam and park right at the trail head.


I think we'll start there, hike about 6 mi to #113 and camp.
Day 2: 5-6 mi to Gregory Bald and camp at #13.
Day 3: 7-8 mi to #93.
Final Day: about 8 mi back to car.

We'll get to see Shuckstack Tower and Gregory Bald, along with a [very] small stint on the AT.
Do you like climbing hills?
This particular path will cause you to effectively make the 2000' climb from the dam to Shuckstack twice.
But if you start at Twentymile Ranger Station, you only make that 2000' climb once, and reduce your total mileage. You can still spend three nights in the woods by stopping off at #95 on your way back down, or hike Twentymile Loop over to #92 before returning back to the car.

[TNhiker]

And parking is available at twenty mile ranger station.....

IMO---campsite 113 is the best layout of any campsite in the park......great tent spots with a view of Gregory's bald....

The other ones that hookoodooku listed are also nice....cs 13 gets heavy use though......

[gollwoods]

there's cabins in townsend that are pretty close to the road going out of cades cove. you could plan to end at cades cove and then drive over the road and right to a cabin pretty much.

[Ox97GaMe]

" At the intersection with the AT and Lost Cove Trail, turn right and check out Shuckstack fire tower. "

This is not quite correct. Shuckstack fire tower trail is just before you get to the summit of Shuckstack Mountain, .5 miles S. of the Lost Cove junction. As you are climbing from Fontana, you will be switchbacking for most of the way to the summit. Near the top, the trail takes a hard switchback to the right and becomes VERY rocky and steeper for .25 miles. Start looking for the side trail to the firetower when you get near the top of this location. The trail from Lost Cove junction to the firetower is on the old roadbed that the fire rangers used to drive to the tower and park at the top. If you get to this roadbed, you have missed the side trail. It is pretty easy to find.

[daddytwosticks]

" At the intersection with the AT and Lost Cove Trail, turn right and check out Shuckstack fire tower. "

This is not quite correct. Shuckstack fire tower trail is just before you get to the summit of Shuckstack Mountain, .5 miles S. of the Lost Cove junction. As you are climbing from Fontana, you will be switchbacking for most of the way to the summit. Near the top, the trail takes a hard switchback to the right and becomes VERY rocky and steeper for .25 miles. Start looking for the side trail to the firetower when you get near the top of this location. The trail from Lost Cove junction to the firetower is on the old roadbed that the fire rangers used to drive to the tower and park at the top. If you get to this roadbed, you have missed the side trail. It is pretty easy to find. There was no sign there last weekend when I hiked by. Just about every other trail intersection in the Smoky's seemed to be well signed. I found it odd that the trail to this feature was without a sign. :)

[HooKooDooKu]

There was no sign there last weekend when I hiked by. Just about every other trail intersection in the Smoky's seemed to be well signed. I found it odd that the trail to this feature was without a sign. :)
Signs are MOSTLY limited to "official" trails found on the back country trail map. There are a few exceptions (the sign to the JumpOff off the Boulevard trail being one of them).

But otherwise, Shuckstack tower is NOT something the park wants to encourage people to visit. The tower is in terrible disrepair. While most metal supports look sound, the wood of the platforms and stairs are not. Many bolts that should be holding these boards in place are missing. Many of the boards are so rotten, I would not trust putting my full weight on. Some boards have been replaced, but the haphazard nature of what has and has not been repaired leaves me with the impression that private individuals are making these repairs without the parks permission.

The park seems to be unwilling to make any commitments regarding Shuckstack tower. They apparently don't have the money to spend to tear it down. While private individuals have tried to raise money to save the tower, the park service has so far been unwilling to make a commitment, making it even more difficult to raise money.

The tower is in such a limbo and continues to fall into further disrepair, my (and other's) fear is that one day, someone is going to get hurt, and when that happens, the park service will close access to the tower by doing something on the cheap... like removing the bottom flight of stairs, and we'll no longer be able to see the view from the cab again.

Simply put, Shuckstack Fire Tower is a dangerous hazard (by modern standards). The only reason it is still there is because it would cost a lot of money to remove it, nobody has gotten seriously hurt, and it's relatively remote that not many people see it (AT through hikers being an obvious exception).

By contrast, the Mount Sterling Fire Tower is in much better condition. But again, that's partially because it's relatively remote with few visitors... and because it is miles off the AT, it doesn't see the AT traffic Shuckstack sees.

[harmonjazzman]

Sooo....with the govt. shutdown comes the closure of GSMNP. I received notice today that all our sites have been closed. We already have non-refundable reservations at Fontana Village Thursday night, 10/3.
I'm wondering...what would happen if we hiked our intended route anyway. How would they catch us if they're all on furlough? Should we even risk it? What great sights/hikes are there just south of the park in NNF and CNF?

[HooKooDooKu]

Sooo....with the govt. shutdown comes the closure of GSMNP. I received notice today that all our sites have been closed. We already have non-refundable reservations at Fontana Village Thursday night, 10/3.
I'm wondering...what would happen if we hiked our intended route anyway. How would they catch us if they're all on furlough? Should we even risk it? What great sights/hikes are there just south of the park in NNF and CNF?

It doesn't matter if there is someone there to enforce the closure or not, the park is closed and therefore illegal to enter the back country during this shutdown.

The WhiteBlaze User agreement states:

4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts, or involving the use, production and/or distribution of illegal drugs are forbidden. (http://whiteblaze.net/cmps.php?page=agreement)

As such, discussions involving entering the GSMNP back country during this shutdown are prohibited.

[ADD]
Otherwise, all I can say is "Sorry about your non-refundable reservation". I hear the Fontana Dam parking lot will still be open. You could at least go check out the dam if you haven't seen it before. (yea... not much of a consolation prize)

[harmonjazzman]

National forests will still be open though, correct?

[marti038]

Just curious, does anyone know what the fines/penalties are for entering a national park during the shutdown?

(This isn't a question about whether or not someone should break the law so please save the debate and lectures for someone else.)

[HooKooDooKu]

Just curious, does anyone know what the fines/penalties are for entering a national park during the shutdown?

(This isn't a question about whether or not someone should break the law so please save the debate and lectures for someone else.)

But the problem with even asking the question implies someone is considering the risk/reward of breaking the law.

In any case, the story I heard about someone caught using the jogging trails in another national park (like Valley Forge or some place like that) was that they were given a $75 ticket plus $25 in processing fees ($100 total).

There was a story about a week ago about a woman who went down the trail between Gatlinburg and Surgarlands, fell, and had to call for rescue services. The story didn't say what if any sort of fine was imposed on the woman (the story focused on the fact how thin resources were stretched and how this simple problem near park roads caused major problems for the understaffed crew... and they didn't want to contemplate what would have happened had this woman been on a trial miles in the back country and required rescue).

[marti038]

But the problem with even asking the question implies someone is considering the risk/reward of breaking the law.

Maybe for you. I'm just asking out of curiosity.

As you know being from Birmingham, I do not live near a national park and have no plans to visit one in the near future.

[HooKooDooKu]

As you know being from Birmingham, I do not live near a national park...
GSMNP is only a 5 hour drive from down here in Birmingham.

Just have your car already packed up; get home from work on Friday and get some sleep; wake up about 2 a.m., get a shower, get in the car and drive. If you're going through Pigeon Forge, you'll get there about the time Cracker Barrel opens. Get some grub and drive to the trail head. It won't be long after sunrise and you're already on the trial.

Something like that was my plan for tonight... until Congress screwed things up.

[TNhiker]

There was a story about a week ago about a woman who went down the trail between Gatlinburg and Surgarlands, fell, and had to call for rescue services. The story didn't say what if any sort of fine was imposed on the woman (the story focused on the fact how thin resources were stretched and how this simple problem near park roads caused major problems for the understaffed crew



she should be charged criminally (for trespassing) and charged for the cost of the rescue....

plain and simple....

[marti038]

GSMNP is only a 5 hour drive from down here in Birmingham.

Just have your car already packed up; get home from work on Friday and get some sleep; wake up about 2 a.m., get a shower, get in the car and drive. If you're going through Pigeon Forge, you'll get there about the time Cracker Barrel opens. Get some grub and drive to the trail head. It won't be long after sunrise and you're already on the trial.

Something like that was my plan for tonight... until Congress screwed things up.

Like I said, and as you illustrated through your ten step plan to the smokeys, it's not very close.