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Arsenul
07-26-2013, 23:47
I was looking at some packs and I was having trouble picking the liter. I know that I'll need to pack a sleeping bag, tent, clothes, food, and extra gear. And because I'm unsure of doing mail drops, I am planning on hiking with everything for each season as a precaution. With that in mind I still have to pick a pack liter. I currently have a outer frame pack but I'll be looking for a inner frame pack. I was thinking of getting the Osprey Xenith 105 Pack because of the pack size and how much it can store. But again, I'm unsure. The AT is going to be the longest hike I've done so I'm just unsure on how much I need. So I'm curious if 105 might be too big. What Liter have you used before and suggest, and do you personally think that the Osprey Xenith 105 Pack is to much?

MuddyWaters
07-26-2013, 23:54
It depends on all the rest of your stuff. Some gear is less volume than others.

Yes, 105 is ridiculously huge. Past ridiculous.

You have yet to grasp how important weight is when you are carrying it every day, for 15 miles, up and down steep mountains.

snifur
07-26-2013, 23:54
In my opinion it is way too big. Too big means you are going to put too much into it and add too much weight. I sent you a PM.

Arsenul
07-26-2013, 23:56
In my opinion it is way too big. Too big means you are going to put too much into it and add too much weight. I sent you a PM.

I got it. What liter would you suggest then?

MuddyWaters
07-27-2013, 00:01
65-70 L is a popular size.

Lighter minded individuals get by with less, some as small as 35L

Not all packs are measured equally, or with any accuracy at all

What counts, is does your gear and a weeks food fit in it?

snifur
07-27-2013, 00:12
MW, you hit the nail on the head. I would like to add that a pack should not be purchased blind. get your gear together and see how much you have and then try on the packs in the volume range of your gear.

stranger
07-27-2013, 07:08
70 litres is big enough for anything in 2013, too many hikers get a 50-60 litre pack thinking it's light then end up strapping crap all over the outside, packs work best 100% full with NOTHING outside

105 litres is huge, the pack alone will be 6lbs...if you are asking the question I would say error on the safe side, but without being too conservative...70 litres will be big enough and still be able to compress if you end up going lighter, worst case scenario throw a Ridge Rest inside to eat up your extra room

snifur
07-27-2013, 07:59
stranger, you sound like a pack salesman. i would never suggest for someone to throw a ridge rest inside to eat up volume. never put anything in the pack to just eat up volume. that makes no sense and changes the balance of the pack. one should thoughtfully plan their gear and pack according to its use before the hike. everything has its predetermined place. never ever never ever just fill it up because there is extra room. i have been to so many dumb outfitters selling packs saying the same thing. "look here, you can always add more gear here and look at thus space, out this new stove, pot, and extra boots over here".

Zippy Morocco
07-27-2013, 08:13
I would suggest putting all your stuff in a box and then measure the actual volume of your kit. Be sure to include the space for food.

Just Bill
07-27-2013, 08:51
Arsenul- As mentioned, you need to figure out the contents before the container. Here's a simple rule of thumb too- lightweight backpackers can go 35l or less, midrange folks are in the 35-50l range, and old school, folks are 50-65l. Over 65L is for folks with families, on expeditions, guides- basically people who carry gear for others. Packs over 30lb (total) need a frame. Packs over 40lb typically also need a good hipbelt. You will get different answers based upon hiking style. What is your style? With your pack dry (no food or water) for the AT it should have enough spare volume to hold up to six days of food and a few liters of water. Put an empty gallon of milk and two empty 2l bottles of pop inside to represent food and water. Many folks (rightly so) would also advocate a bit of spare room for heavier clothing/sleeping gear for a spring start/white mountain area list. A versatile pack should have an expansion collar that adds roughly 1/3rd of the original volume. Typically you need a roughly 12" tall collar and the rest of the math does itself. When you pick up a drop, the outside of your pack shouldn't look like a gypsy junk collector. Putting you pad inside to eat volume (at the end of your stretch) is a good trick- but at roughly 3-4 days of food (about an empty milk jug) you should have everything inside or stowed in it's place. Clothes and other light bulky items sit in the collar when you are fully loaded, as you eat food, the clothes go back in the pack. Below is a picture of my pack and a fellow hikers 88l Osprey. Not saying anything- one style on either end- both have enough food to cover the same miles. One weighs about 20, the other weighs over 50. 22991

Two Speed
07-27-2013, 08:57
. . . Yes, 105 is ridiculously huge. Past ridiculous. . .

In my opinion it is way too big. . .Nah, you guys got it all wrong. 105 liters is perfect for a snug little one man shelter.
. . . 105 litres is huge, the pack alone will be 6lbs . . . Nope, a mere 5 1/2 lbs.

daddytwosticks
07-27-2013, 13:26
OK, in all seriousness, the above response got me to thinking...if a cuben pack WAS big enough, could it be used as a shelter? :)

Just Bill
07-27-2013, 13:42
I may or may not have some prototype designs of that sort- That said- I shot down the idea upon experimentation because of one simple issue. On bad days, when you want a shelter, when the convenience of packing gear and having a dry place to live are the main reasons you brought said shelter: you loose all the advantages by having to take down your shelter prior to/in conjunction with packing. Also, the "features" needed to make it work ended up weighing more than the savings of eliminating the yard or two of fabric from the combination. Have at it though- one possibility that does have promise is a day pack/bivy. Not ideal for much but emergencies or overnighters, but good in a pinch.

Venchka
07-27-2013, 14:10
I may or may not have some prototype designs of that sort- That said- I shot down the idea upon experimentation because of one simple issue. On bad days, when you want a shelter, when the convenience of packing gear and having a dry place to live are the main reasons you brought said shelter: you loose all the advantages by having to take down your shelter prior to/in conjunction with packing. Also, the "features" needed to make it work ended up weighing more than the savings of eliminating the yard or two of fabric from the combination. Have at it though- one possibility that does have promise is a day pack/bivy. Not ideal for much but emergencies or overnighters, but good in a pinch.

I arrived at a similar conclusion when weighing the poncho as shelter vs. poncho + shelter conundrum. While the poncho may serve as temporary or emergency shelter, I wouldn't want to rely exclusively on my poncho for shelter for multiple months.

Back on topic:
Arsenul,
I own, and still plan to use a pair of backpacks.
The first is a frameless pack of approximately 51 liters and can expand to 63 liters with the addition of the two removable outside pockets that came with the pack. In the summer, in Colorado at 8,000' and up it has served me well. I naturally have to carry a smaller, easily compressed down sleeping bag (a 20 degree variety) and everything else suitable for the season at hand.
The second is a 95 liter Extreme Load Hauler that also expands to over 100 liters when needed. It also compresses down to large day pack size if needed. If I filled it up I probably couldn't carry it. However, it handles bulkier, colder weather gear with ease. A zero degree bag, cold weather fleece, etc. It is also very comfortable when loaded and fits me perfectly.

I have recently examined the current pack market. There are a huge number of packs in the 55 liter to 65 liter range that should, if your gear is selected accordingly, handle mild winter conditions to hot, wet, humid, buggy summer conditions. Any pack you consider should have ample adjustments to expand & contract as your load varies. It should also have adjustments to accommodate your weight & size changes during 8-9 months of hiking. Make sure that the hip belt can be replaced or adjusted for girth if needed.
There is also Dan McHale who will custom build a one of a kind, made to your measurements, Super Wonder Pack.
The net result of my recent back pack shopping adventure: Keep and use what I have.
Have fun!

Wayne

Rocket Jones
07-27-2013, 15:27
...And because I'm unsure of doing mail drops, I am planning on hiking with everything for each season as a precaution.

This is a bad choice. When it's cold, carry your cold weather gear. When it warms up, send it home and trade it for your warm weather gear. Carrying it all for the entire way is just not sensible.

Here's a respected gear list (http://www.backpacker.com/november_08_pack_man_/articles/12659?page=4). Use this as your starting point, although some think that this is ideal.

Venchka
07-27-2013, 17:42
I was looking at some packs and I was having trouble picking the liter. I know that I'll need to pack a sleeping bag, tent, clothes, food, and extra gear. And because I'm unsure of doing mail drops, I am planning on hiking with everything for each season as a precaution.

Don't dismiss your external frame pack. Use it. Use it on your practice trips while you are deciding what gear to keep and what gear to get rid of. You may find that your external frame pack fits you and is comfortable to carry all day. Use the money you save on a new pack to buy 2 really good, really light sleeping bags.
If, after about a month on the AT, you find that the external frame pack is not the right choice, you can buy a new pack from a very good shop right on the trail in Hot Springs, NC. By then you should have a very good idea of what you want and need in a pack.
By the way, the capacity (volume-liters) of a pack is not the important size to look at. Packs come in 3 or more sizes based on your body size. You really would benefit by being measured for a pack in a store. After you know what body size you need, then you can focus on pack capacity, and several other features that combine to make the best pack for you.
In the meantime, give some thought to a 20 degree F down bag, not over 2 pounds, for cold weather use. Then start looking at 2-3 pound tents.
One more time: Work out a system for exchanging gear. You really don't need to carry 2 complete sets of gear.

Wayne

kayak karl
07-27-2013, 18:04
somebody made a gear-skin pack that doubles as a hammock. i could see one doubling as a bivy.

Two Speed
07-28-2013, 07:55
How did pack / hammock work out?

FWIW I spent far too much time contemplating using a pack as part of a shelter system, basically to cover my lower legs. Long story short I might go that route if my shelter got damaged, lost, whatever but as a go-to system it doesn't begin to cut it for me.