Want to change my shoe

[FarmerChef]

Ok. So I know this has been discussed ad nauseum in here and I've reviewed the relevant threads. So please forgive me for yet another, "Which shoe is the best" thread. The problem is I haven't quite found what I'm looking for so I'm posting here in the hope I can get some specific recommendations based on my specific situation.

My current shoe (until recently) was a Merrell Mix Master and the Mix Master Glide for my wife. This shoe was comfortable and more "sticky" on rocks when we first wore it. But the tread quickly wore down and the shoes developed fatal holes/tears in the side mesh about 600 trail miles later. Perhaps this is "good" for a minimalist style trail runner. I don't know - it was our first pair after using NB street runners. In a week and a couple days, we will be hiking the whites and we need a new shoe now so we can get them broken in before starting.

I'm looking for a durable shoe that grips rock well, is minimalist/flat (I do not wear shoes with a big heel drop or stack height), features some kind of rock plate or protection and is lightish (not like my running flats but not a boot either).

Is this too mystical a list to compile? :-? If not, please give me your recommendations on a good trail shoe that fits most or all of these features. Thanks!

[Hill Ape]

ask a thousand people, you'll get a million answers. i wear keens targhees, but if i bought today i'd go back to moabs, and get the ventilators. maybe i wouldn't like them. there is no holy grail

[FarmerChef]

ask a thousand people, you'll get a million answers. i wear keens targhees, but if i bought today i'd go back to moabs, and get the ventilators. maybe i wouldn't like them. there is no holy grail

Understood. I'm not looking for the "perfect" shoe but would like to know if my 600 miles per pair is average for trail runner and what would be similar to what I've got. I'm leery because my street runners have lasted almost 1,000 miles per pair.

[jeffmeh]

I think 600 trail miles for a minimalist shoe is pretty reasonable. Even if you go to a non-minimalist Merrell Moab Ventilator (which I happen to like), you may get more if you use them occasionally and they dry out in between, but four pairs for an AT Thru seems about right. That's how many Achilles went through.

[BuckeyeBill]

+1 on the Merrell Moab Ventilators

[slbirdnerd]

+1 on the Merrell Moab Ventilators (from a girl), best of both worlds IMHO. Pretty light, dry fast, breathe, very comfortable, durable so far.

[slbirdnerd]

+1 on the Merrell Moab Ventilators (from a girl), best of both worlds IMHO. Pretty light, dry fast, breathe, very comfortable, durable so far. Sorry, meant to add your wife might try on the Merrell Siren. Flatter, harder foot bed, less to it, but wasn't for me.

[FarmerChef]

Thanks for the tips on the Moabs and the Siren. I'll check them out. Anybody used an Altra Lone Peak?

[q-tip]

Montrail AT Plus-Non-Goretex--I love em'

[fredmugs]

I have a pair of Ventilator's and highly recommend them as well. I recently got a pair of Hoka One One Mafate's. They are like mall walkers for the trail, they dry out very quickly, but they don't have the greatest grip when it's wet.

http://hokaoneone-na.com/mafate-detail-men.html

[Meriadoc]

600 miles is fairly typical for a trail runner.

-1 on the Moab Ventilators for minimalist. I gave them a shot after wearing Tevas for hundreds of miles and really felt the heel lift and super stiff sole. (Prior to going minimalist I loved them.)

I wore the Altra Lone Peaks for 400-500 miles. They didn't grip all that well on rocks when wet. The small nubs were great in mud but didn't seem to have enough area for rock and especially wet rock. Overall not a bad choice though.

I'm using Luna sandals. I haven't really put them through the wringer yet. The Lunas have plenty of cushion and surprisingly good grip and durability for the Mono. I'd guess the Leadville ones are even better. I run, hike, and walk about town in mine. There is zero heel lift so this may be more minimalist than you are going for.

With your criteria of more minimalist but with a rock plate, I recommend:
1: Sticking with what works, 600 miles is pretty decent
2: Giving Tevas a try. Terra FI Lite and Tanza are the two I have tried and can heartily recommend. I got 800 miles on the Terra pushing it close to the limit. Best grip I have ever had in any shoe, bar none. Rock plate is there and there is some cushion. The heel lift is small.

[jeffmeh]

I should also add that I use the Superfeet Green insoles with the Merrell Moab Ventilators, making them even less minimalist, lol. Given all of the rock-hopping in the Whites, I appreciate the stiffer, more substantial insole.

I do have a pair of VivoBarefoot Ultras that I use on easier terrain, and for exercise. I'm still not brave enough to try to do anything too long or rugged with them, though.

[Just Bill]

FarmerChef- I am a big Altra fan, also a minimalist/zero drop user. I also had to pass on the new mix master line as Merrell has narrowed their forefoot slightly in this years lineup. I am a Lone Peak fan, the new model is very good overall, I only have a few hundred miles on them but so far I am happy. I wore the Torin's on my last longer hike (springer to Hot springs). I actually find that for open rock a "road" shoe performs better, but I am trying the Lone Peaks for slightly better durability (regarding rock kicking/toe snagging) the torin's got a little beat up on that front but grip well on everything but slightly loose rock dust such as found in the smokies area. The lack of a rock plate and toe bumper is their only ding. Overall I think the Lone Peak handles 90% of conditions fairly well and it has a rock plate in it. You mentioned you want a more minimal stack height though, and these shoes are on the high end, but for backpacking I think you will find you enjoy the extra cushion. In all other aspects they are a minimalist shoe and the extra stack shouldn't affect your stride. I love hiking in a Merrell bare access, but switched to the Altra for higher mileage days. REGARDING DURABILITY- There are two definitions; does the shoe "look" done, or is it actually done. I have a pair of Altra Instincts that I wore to run in, then worked in for over a year doing remodeling. They are still fine, not a popped stitch, decent tread and look fine. By appearance you can get 1000 miles out of a shoe if you aren't too hard on them, sometimes more. But EVA and other foams/rubbers do wear out. Internally shoes crush out, backpacking shoes faster than running shoes because we wear them longer and don't rest or rotate them. 300-500 miles is a safer number in this regard, despite all outward appearances, at some point the cushion looses it's ability to bounce back. Let your feet tell you when that is, but the internal damage, not the external appearance should dictate your replacement. Shoes/feet are too important to risk it. A three times a week trail running schedule, you may get 600 miles. A twelve hour a day, seven days a week, rough terrain backpacking shoe, could fail in as little as 300.

[FarmerChef]

FarmerChef- I am a big Altra fan, also a minimalist/zero drop user. I also had to pass on the new mix master line as Merrell has narrowed their forefoot slightly in this years lineup. I am a Lone Peak fan, the new model is very good overall, I only have a few hundred miles on them but so far I am happy. I wore the Torin's on my last longer hike (springer to Hot springs). I actually find that for open rock a "road" shoe performs better, but I am trying the Lone Peaks for slightly better durability (regarding rock kicking/toe snagging) the torin's got a little beat up on that front but grip well on everything but slightly loose rock dust such as found in the smokies area. The lack of a rock plate and toe bumper is their only ding. Overall I think the Lone Peak handles 90% of conditions fairly well and it has a rock plate in it. You mentioned you want a more minimal stack height though, and these shoes are on the high end, but for backpacking I think you will find you enjoy the extra cushion. In all other aspects they are a minimalist shoe and the extra stack shouldn't affect your stride. I love hiking in a Merrell bare access, but switched to the Altra for higher mileage days. REGARDING DURABILITY- There are two definitions; does the shoe "look" done, or is it actually done. I have a pair of Altra Instincts that I wore to run in, then worked in for over a year doing remodeling. They are still fine, not a popped stitch, decent tread and look fine. By appearance you can get 1000 miles out of a shoe if you aren't too hard on them, sometimes more. But EVA and other foams/rubbers do wear out. Internally shoes crush out, backpacking shoes faster than running shoes because we wear them longer and don't rest or rotate them. 300-500 miles is a safer number in this regard, despite all outward appearances, at some point the cushion looses it's ability to bounce back. Let your feet tell you when that is, but the internal damage, not the external appearance should dictate your replacement. Shoes/feet are too important to risk it. A three times a week trail running schedule, you may get 600 miles. A twelve hour a day, seven days a week, rough terrain backpacking shoe, could fail in as little as 300.

Great feedback, JustBill. In reference to the condition of the shoe, I know what you mean. My bare access road flats still work great after at least 1,000 miles. My feet are comfy and I just ran a marathon in them a couple months ago. No visible damage and the cushion still feels good. My Mix Masters are a different story. On probably my second hike with them, I stepped just wrong on a broken stick and it punctured the side mesh (not me, thank goodness) and I had to pull it out of the shoe. On this last hike I noticed early on that both shoes had large gashes through the mesh on both sides of the shoe - large being about 1 to 2 inches long. I knew then the shoe was done. Also, the incredible mud in Vermont/NH provided a grinding surface on the insole causing it to wear at an alarming rate. From beginning to end, there is now a see-through hole in the insole and the heels are worn down to the nubs. I completely burned through a pair of wicking socks in 3 days in the stuff. Probably a good industrial use for Vermont mud ;)

With regard to the Altra's, I will definitely give them a try on the next go around. I have wide (3E to 4E) feet and appreciate a shoe with a bit more room in the toebox. Due to time being short, I had to order up another pair of MM's so my wife and I could get them broken in by next Friday. We've only got about a 600 miles of trail left so we'll see if we can't coax this pair to go the distance.

[Just Bill]

Best of luck on your trip! I've never been a gator guy, but I have grudgingly admitted to myself after my last trip that the time has come. Consider some dirty girls or other light gaiter to add to your shoe. Mud is mud, but at least you can cut down on the grit that accumulates in the rockier zones of your upcoming stretch. I also toss conventional (UL) wisdom out the door and started carrying four pairs of socks for that reason and wash them well each day. As you say, in bad terrain a gritty sock will do you in faster than a shoe. My feet aren't that wide, but I like the extra room. (Torin's are cut a bit wider than the Lone Peak for future reference, and my 11.5 or 12 in Merrell's matches well enough with a 12 in Altra's) You may know this trick but consider this alternate lace up and skip the first or even second eyelet depending on your shoe. 23053

[Slo-go'en]

I buy new boots every year. Just a fact of life if you hike a lot. It seems every time I find a pair of boots I like, the next time I go to buy some they have been discontinued or changed in some way. Lately, I've had pretty good luck with Scarpa boots, but I hear thier not for everyone.

For a pair of boots which will last a life time, there are the Limmer classics. They make your feet "bullet proof", but at 3 pounds a boot, lifting ones feet after a long day is not easy! I'm suprised my knees still work after wearing out two sets of vibrum lug soles on those boots.