why in blazes isn't there a direction pointer on those blazes???

[jefals]

Hi folks; I'm in the planning stages, doing my research and just wondering if the "blaze" shows which direction is N or S, and, if not, then "why in blazes" not? Wouldn't that be a good idea? Because my reading suggests that folks don't actually get lost too often; however, (again, according to what I've read) they DO sometimes, after taking a break, come back to the trail, and then wander off in the wrong direction -- sometimes for miles... What do y'all think? ( I know, that's what compasses are for -- still, it might be nice if you didn't need a compass -- one more thing you can do without, right?)
Thanks!,
Jeff

[hikerboy57]

i would estimate somewhere close to a million blazes from springer to k, not including the cairns in the whites above treeline, which would be difficult to mark anyway.
map&com[pass, can help, but sometimes switchbacks will take you in the opposite direction than that which you're traveling. best advice,just pay attention. its one of the easiest trails to follow anywhere.

[FarmerChef]

I'm no expert but that just isn't standard practice. Complete guess here but I would think that the expectation has always been that hikers have an orienteering device (such as a compass and map) to know which way they were headed. That said, I have seen some places where the blazes at intersections are marked North/South so you won't come off at the intersection and head the wrong way. Other places have signs next to roads or at cross trail intersections. Just not every blaze. That would be a bit tedious since you'd have to first mark the blaze then wait for it to dry before painting on an "N" or "S." Stenciling that could work but as the bark expands it could make it unreadable, just like some of the blazes themselves...

My two cents. Any other speculators out there? :D

[Pedaling Fool]

Actually compasses won't necessarily work, because say you're doing a NOBO, while you may be traveling northbound as your aggragate direction, there's a good chance you can be going any direction at any one time, including south.

[The Snowman]

north south whatever all the matters is you are on the trail

[gizzy bear]

north south whatever all the matters is you are on the trail

hahaha!! well it does kinda matter....if say, someone has a destination :P

[Tennessee Viking]

Thats funny...I almost thought this was the Humor Forum for a second.


If a hiker really needs a N or S with the blazes. They shouldn't be hiking. By the way, there are always maps and compasses to find one's way. There are a number of trailheads and turns that are marked N/S or the next set of points of interests.

By the way, each blaze takes a few minutes to create by ATC standards. You have to locate a suitable area and tree for blazing, de-bark a small area on the tree, then depending on the painting technique its painted on. Times that by a several thousand.

Yes people can get turned around every so often. But with how much the trail is hiked, those instances are rare. And yes there are some points on the trail where you are hiking compass south but you heading trial north.

[theoilman]

It is assumed that hikers have at least a little common sense.
But then, common sense is not very common with too many people.
Assuming anything is also a reach for too many.

[Jeff]

i would estimate somewhere close to a million blazes from springer to k, not including the cairns in the whites above treeline, which would be difficult to mark anyway.

Some years ago a northbound thruhiker counted every blaze and claimed there was a bit more than 80,000 northbound blazes. I guess you could double that number to include the southbound blazes.

Here is his journal: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=22746

[Alligator]

Com'n folks just tell him the truth. The convention is, they flip the blazes over and put them in the other direction to indicate southbound.

[rocketsocks]

In the old days of travel and trail drives, it was a common practice for the Cook to place the tongue (hitch) of the chuck wagon facing North, so next morning there would be a direction to follow should it be cloudy, snowy.

[atmilkman]

Some years ago a northbound thruhiker counted every blaze and claimed there was a bit more than 80,000 northbound blazes. I guess you could double that number to include the southbound blazes.

Here is his journal: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=22746

That's about a 1 in every ¼ mile average give or take. I think that's the ratio the ATC is looking to maintain.

[Hill Ape]

but but but, the trail doesn't actually run along magnetic north/south. it runs more north/northeast. there are places, switchbacks, where you may be traveling trail north, but walking southeast, or northwest.

there are places that are blazed with an arrow.

its just one trail, it goes this way, or that way. stay alert.

[Hill Ape]

or south/southwest, depending on which way you're walking

[Rolls Kanardly]

i would estimate somewhere close to a million blazes from springer to k, not including the cairns in the whites above treeline, which would be difficult to mark anyway.
map&com[pass, can help, but sometimes switchbacks will take you in the opposite direction than that which you're traveling. best advice,just pay attention. its one of the easiest trails to follow anywhere.
5,280 feet in a miles, 2,180 miles, total = 11,510,400 feet. That would put a white blaze every 11.51 feet. Do not think the blazes are that close, Rolls Kanardly

[ki0eh]

Some years ago a northbound thruhiker counted every blaze and claimed there was a bit more than 80,000 northbound blazes. I guess you could double that number to include the southbound blazes.


Maybe not, since there seems to be someone usually claiming there are fewer southbound blazes. ;)

[hikerboy57]

okay half a million, counting the southbound blazes.or 80000. whichever.

[Rasty]

okay half a million, counting the southbound blazes.or 80000. whichever.

Nice estimate there Hikerboy75

[Rasty]

How about just remembering left or right before getting off trail?

[hikerboy57]

How about just remembering left or right before getting off trail?
well because coming back you'll go in the wrong direction.if we're facing each other, my left is your right.if you're not paying attention, this can be easily confussed.
pay attention!!

[daddytwosticks]

Screw the north/south blaze request, I want some comfortable benches at appropriate intervals for rest stops! Frequent trash cans would be nice too. :)

[jefals]

Yeah, but I can definitely see how a person, at some point (or many points), on a 6 month hike -- cold, wet, tired, hungry -- can easily get disoriented....



its just one trail, it goes this way, or that way. stay alert.

Yeah, but I can definitely see how a person, at some point (or many points), on a 6 month hike -- cold, wet, tired, hungry -- can easily get disoriented....

[Hill Ape]

pay attention to which side of the tree moss is growing, which side of the mountain the sun is on, and the biggie, which way does the water flow downhill

sorry, i kid too much. first have a compass, second, just have situational awareness of where you and where you came from and where you want to go.

[BuckeyeBill]

What if they put the NB blazes on the right side of the trail and SB blazes on the left then you would know within a 1/4 mile if you are going the wrong way.

[atmilkman]

What if they put the NB blazes on the right side of the trail and SB blazes on the left then you would know within a 1/4 mile if you are going the wrong way.

In other words put all blazes on the east side of the trail?

[hikerboy57]

What if they put the NB blazes on the right side of the trail and SB blazes on the left then you would know within a 1/4 mile if you are going the wrong way.
what about the cairns above treeline?

[Lone Wolf]

Hi folks; I'm in the planning stages, doing my research and just wondering if the "blaze" shows which direction is N or S, and, if not, then "why in blazes" not? Wouldn't that be a good idea? Because my reading suggests that folks don't actually get lost too often; however, (again, according to what I've read) they DO sometimes, after taking a break, come back to the trail, and then wander off in the wrong direction -- sometimes for miles... What do y'all think? ( I know, that's what compasses are for -- still, it might be nice if you didn't need a compass -- one more thing you can do without, right?)
Thanks!,
Jeff
this is a non-issue on the AT. it rarely happens. ya gotta pay attention is all

[Hill Ape]

or, just ask the next hiker you see, are you hiking nobo or sobo? they may think you're making conversation, when really you're too sneaky for them, you're lost and need guidance

wolf is right, its a non-issue. its the type of things newbies overanalyze with too many what ifs. thats kind of the reason most of the answers are sarcastic.

[jefals]

Thanks guys. I came across this, I think, in a youtube some fellow with cancer was doing a thru hike and mentioned -- not that it happened to him, but he says it has happened to people. ( or it might have been in one of the books, but I think it was the youtube...)

[BuckeyeBill]

Milkman if that is possible to put them on the east side yes

Hikerboy the cairnes could also be on the eastside of the trail if possible.

[kayak karl]

they are painted in two different shades of white. its hard to tell because one is always in the shade.
SOBO is Benjamin-Moor Winter White
NOBO is Marshmallow White from the Martha Stewart collection:rolleyes:

[hikerboy57]

Milkman if that is possible to put them on the east side yes

Hikerboy the cairnes could also be on the eastside of the trail if possible.
not that easy

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/8/4/8/1/dsc00585_591981.jpg

[atmilkman]

they are painted in two different shades of white. its hard to tell because one is always in the shade.
SOBO is Benjamin-Moor Winter White
NOBO is Marshmallow White from the Martha Stewart collection:rolleyes:
My wife is LHAO.

[BuckeyeBill]

not that easy

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/8/4/8/1/dsc00585_591981.jpg

I see what you mean.

[hikerboy57]

not that easy

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/8/4/8/1/dsc00585_591981.jpg

I see what you mean.above treeline a map and compass can come in handy, especially in the whites, which can be shrouded in fog or clouds as you see, sometimes cant even see the next cairn.the left side/right side thing sounds good, but practically, there are many areas of the trail it would be impossible.

[Omaha_Ace]

I think they should just lay a solid stripe down from Springer all the way north to Katahdin. Maybe a double stripe with dashes on the straights so we know when to pass slower hikers. :cool:

[hikerboy57]

I think they should just lay a solid stripe down from Springer all the way north to Katahdin. Maybe a double stripe with dashes on the straights so we know when to pass slower hikers. :cool:
the plan's in place already, theyre just waiting until it gets paved first to make the striping easier

[Hill Ape]

if you always painted the blazes on the right side of the path of travel, wouldn't that be east going north, and west going south?..... oowwww, my head hurts

[The Ace]

Yeah, but I can definitely see how a person, at some point (or many points), on a 6 month hike -- cold, wet, tired, hungry -- can easily get disoriented....



Yeah, but I can definitely see how a person, at some point (or many points), on a 6 month hike -- cold, wet, tired, hungry -- can easily get disoriented....

And end up saying the same thing twice. And end up saying the same thing twice.
I recommend that when you get off on a blue blaze or go for water, toilet, or overnight camping that you immediately stop, turn around, look at the trail and say to yourself out loud, “when I come back go left (right).” You can teach yourself to do this so that it becomes routine. Hike alone long enough and you will talk to yourself frequently (and end up saying the same thing twice). You can also use your map and make a mental note of the next expected destination and approximate time it will take you to arrive, or, observe the next elevation ascent or descent on the map. You could take along a GPS or similar gadget and watch how the reading changes, keeping in mind that the trail to Maine does not always go north, and vice versa. You can also ask the next person you meet on the trail – am I headed in the direction of Maine (Georgia). But, ask more than one hiker; as this thread demonstrates, you may encounter someone who does not know where he is going. (However, usually these types are at home typing smarty remarks on their computers.) If you are unwilling to this, then all I can say is just sleep with your tongue pointed north. Getting confused does happen, I remember getting confused at Deep Gap, NC after coming up from the campground. Even though the trail was marked there as N and S, it did not make logical sense to get on the AT and go back in the same direction that I had just come from. The very worst case is that you will lose one day, because the destinations on the map are so close together, and you will usually see or even be with others.

[hikerboy57]

i think it was 10k who had a tip a while back when you have to blue blaze to a shelter, he put his water bottle on the side of his tent to remind him which way to turn.

[Migrating Bird]

they are painted in two different shades of white. its hard to tell because one is always in the shade.
SOBO is Benjamin-Moor Winter White
NOBO is Marshmallow White from the Martha Stewart collection:rolleyes:


Too funny, but seriously, no wonder I get screwed up, my seeing eye dog book said it was Sherwin Williams Dreamy white for NB and SW Hush white for SB because they are generally too mouthy I guess.

[Drybones]

[QUOTE=BuckeyeBill;1512063]above treeline a map and compass can come in handy, especially in the whites, which can be shrouded in fog or clouds as you see, sometimes cant even see the next cairn.the left side/right side thing sounds good, but practically, there are many areas of the trail it would be impossible.

Put them on the sides so they can't be seen when approaching? I have enough trouble seeing them as it is.

[Drybones]

I'll have to confess, I must be directionally dyslectic, I have started back in the wrong direction but it doesn't take long to realize the scenery looks familiar. Once you realize your prone to do that you find a way to mark which way to go.

[snifur]

On more than one occasion i have headed in the opposite direction i intended trying to get away from the old people that snore too loudly around shelters. This has occurred more often at night and during the pre-light hours. Some blazes at shelter junctions do have "N" and "S" with them.

[Rolls Kanardly]

Okay, how about we put magnetic filings into the paint for all the NoBo blazes and then put your compass near a blaze and if it is a NoBo then the compass would be erratic. Wait a minute, if I had a compass...... Rolls

[Slo-go'en]

I have seen the occasional blaze someone has marked an "N" or "S" on with a marker. Usually in places where one might get turned around.

But really, it isn't all that hard to keep track of which way to go. If you have trouble remembering, use a wrist band you can put on the hand for which direction to turn when getting back on the trail from a shelter or other off trail attraction. If you turn right onto a side trail, you need to turn right again when returning to the main trail. Thankfully, I'm not quite old enough yet to need such a reminder :)

[hikerboy57]

Com'n folks just tell him the truth. The convention is, they flip the blazes over and put them in the other direction to indicate southbound.
the sobo blazes are upside down

[Wise Old Owl]

Actually compasses won't necessarily work, because say you're doing a NOBO, while you may be traveling northbound as your aggragate direction, there's a good chance you can be going any direction at any one time, including south.


unless there is a better exsplantion or defing gravity or magnetism the trail name I think is appropriate...

[Hill Ape]

the obvious answer everyone has missed. SOBOs are going the wrong way

[Lone Wolf]

the obvious answer everyone has missed. SOBOs are going the wrong way

beg to differ. SOBO is the way to really get "that feeling" of accomplishment.

[Biggie Master]

Now available at REI, Campmor, and Sierra Trading Post...

http://progresso.com/~/media/Images/Product_Detail_Other/breadcrumbs_italian.ashx

[Hill Ape]

follow the bread crumbs? what do you, make a line on the trail in the direction you need to go? i can see the mice thanking you, or the stoner hikers doing what they do best with lines

[Sly]

i think it was 10k who had a tip a while back when you have to blue blaze to a shelter, he put his water bottle on the side of his tent to remind him which way to turn.

Right in, right out, left in, left out.

[Sly]

beg to differ. SOBO is the way to really get "that feeling" of accomplishment.

Except if you're trying to set a speed record?

[Lone Wolf]

Except if you're trying to set a speed record?

correct. only the truely tough go NOBO for records. it's the contrarion in me :cool:

[Sarcasm the elf]

How about just remembering left or right before getting off trail?


The Right in right out/left in left out rule has saved me from a lot of aggravation over the years.

Oh and always hike with a good dog, they always seem to know the right way to go. If you get lost, just remember back to the last time the dog wanted to go in a different direction than you turned and walk back to that point. :sun

[Sly]

correct. only the truely tough go NOBO for records. it's the contrarion in me :cool:

Lol........

[Biggie Master]

Right in, right out, left in, left out.

Also heard of folks pointing their hiking poles or a few sticks (anything) in the directness of travel before settling in for the night...

[Rasty]

the obvious answer everyone has missed. SOBOs are going the wrong way

beg to differ. SOBO is the way to really get "that feeling" of accomplishment.

Or NOBO if they are going SOBO

[Hill Ape]

i'm not saying i'd do it, but there are hikers (trash) that would move said poles and sticks to point the wrong way. not me of course, i would never do such a thing.

is there a general humor forum? we all seem to be having too much fun here, you know what will become of that

[evyck da fleet]

Ugh, hikers can't do math. 80,000 blazes/ 2,000 miles or 80/2= 40 blazes/mile =blaze every 40 yds. Gotta believe he counted SOBO & NOBO blazes considering the lack of blazes painted by the AMC would make the other blazes closer together.

[MuddyWaters]

Do you realize how many great stories, and trail names, would never be possible if the trail had direction signs?

[atmilkman]

Ugh, hikers can't do math. 80,000 blazes/ 2,000 miles or 80/2= 40 blazes/mile =blaze every 40 yds. Gotta believe he counted SOBO & NOBO blazes considering the lack of blazes painted by the AMC would make the other blazes closer together.

You're right. For some reason I was figuring 8000 blazes in 2000 miles. 1 every 40 yds is plenty.

[moldy]

To the OP, you are correct, it would in fact make an improvement to the trail. It also would be easy to implement. As you head up the trail you will see several blazes that have been improved just as you suggest by hikers who take matters into their own hands with a sharpie. When hikers see this improvement they appreciate it, even those hikers who mock your question here on WB. The real objection they have is that you are proposing an improvement to the trail. Change is one of the hot button issues that will have them howling like scalded hogs. They don't want a better trail, it will just encourage even more hikers. They would remove all the blazes, tear down all the shelters and remove the signage. All trail improvement posts here on WB are treated the same.

[Deer Hunter]

In the old days of travel and trail drives, it was a common practice for the Cook to place the tongue (hitch) of the chuck wagon facing North, so next morning there would be a direction to follow should it be cloudy, snowy.

Yes, I saw that on a western one time. Oh, I love your signature song by the way. :)

[rocketsocks]

Yes, I saw that on a western one time. Oh, I love your signature song by the way. :)
Yeah, I think I saw "Mushy" on a episode of "Rawhide" do that....but I read about it somewhere.

I'm just getting ready to change it to a Christmas song.

Deer Hunter, love "Rio Bravo" one of my favorite movies of all time and that song is great...nice find!....and getalong home Cindy Cindy, a true classic.

[Deer Hunter]

Yeah,I think I saw "Mushy" on a episode of "Rawhide" do that....but I read about it somewhere.

I'm just getting ready to change it to a Christmas song.

Deer Hunter, love "Rio Bravo" one of my favorite movies of all time and that song is great...nice find!....and geta long home Cindy Cindy, a true classic.


I saw Jimmy Stewart do it in Winchester '73. Christmas song? lol Wish I would have thought of that. Ahh...Dylan. :)

[rocketsocks]

I saw Jimmy Stewart do it in Winchester '73. Christmas song? lol Wish I would have thought of that. Ahh...Dylan. :)Ah yes..73' another clasic

[JustaTouron]

If you carry a digital camera. When you leave the trail take a photo of the direction which you wish to continue.

[hikerboy57]

build a huge cairn to point the way.
or just pay attention

[hikerboy57]

ive gotten off trail , turned around a few times, and taken the wrong blueblaze for sometimes a 1/4 mile or so before realizing my mistake. believe me you learn to pay attention, when you're whacking your forehead telling yourself what an idiot you were.
so far, though, ive never gotten turned around on the at.

[Just Bill]

Not the worst idea I've ever heard- especially if convicted taggers are forced to do it. With a pencil. Until dark enough to be seen from 50' away. The N/S project may not get completed, but I'm guessing the tagging would be cured pretty quick.

[shakey_snake]

Blaze NOBO with white, blaze SOBO with [cornsilk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_of_white#Cornsilk).

[BirdBrain]

Follow the blazes you can see and not the ones painted on the back side of the tree and rocks and you will be fine.

All kidding aside, I think someone has passed a standard mandating the height and angle to the trail of the blazes. On my recent hike, I noticed many blazes that were painted black and a new white blaze painted inches away from the old one. It appeared to me the old one was too low or not directly facing the trail. It looked like the old one was functional, but some pencil pusher saw it a not uniform enough.

[QuabbinHiker]

Generally, I use the sun to tell which way to go. I also leave several distinct sticks pointing me to the way I want to go. Worst case is I go the wrong way, but as I always hike with my better half only twice did we both get confused on our 2012 thru hike.

Worst case: you go the wrong way down the trail, realize it, and go back the way you are supposed to go. It's all good because you are on the trail. The trail is why you are out there. Don't fight the trail or you will lose.

[Drybones]

Made my best time last year on the wrong trail, I was making up time lost going back to Double Springs Shelter to get the phone I left there, but, hey, what's an extra 10 miles of rocks pounding your feet to make you sleep good at night. I propose we put a white blaze with an X through it on all other trails to indicate it's not the AT for those that dont pay attention, every 10 yards should be enough.

[JustaTouron]

I don't think the trail would benefit from every single blaze having a directional marker. But maybe slightly more directional markers at trail and road crossings, shelters, etc.

[Another Kevin]

Follow the blazes you can see and not the ones painted on the back side of the tree and rocks and you will be fine.

All kidding aside, I think someone has passed a standard mandating the height and angle to the trail of the blazes. On my recent hike, I noticed many blazes that were painted black and a new white blaze painted inches away from the old one. It appeared to me the old one was too low or not directly facing the trail. It looked like the old one was functional, but some pencil pusher saw it a not uniform enough.

I've seen that - but where I saw it was a spot where the Trail had been rerouted onto a former blue-blaze. Any chance that the black was painting out blue rather than white?

[Doctari]

Yea, there are a LOT of places where a compass can do more harm than good; I got off trail at the base of Roan Mt, 3 years later I was absolutely sure I knew which way to go. AND, my compass agreed with me, for you see, NOBO from the "South" base of Roan, is actually compass SOUTH!! 2 miles of wrong way hiking & I was again a NOBO hiker, even though my compass said I was going south for about 4 miles AFTER getting back to my start point. So I did an 8 mile hike, but only clocked 4 trail miles.

Lesson learned: I now take a compass bearing EVERY TIME I get off the trail, for any reason. AND, I write it down.

[BirdBrain]

I've seen that - but where I saw it was a spot where the Trail had been rerouted onto a former blue-blaze. Any chance that the black was painting out blue rather than white?

It is possible that has been done elsewhere, but not where I saw them. It helped my OCD. I like uniform, straight, and standardized. I really believe it was done to standardize or it was done by a person with OCD. Many sections had their own style. Some places had nailed on blazes. Some places had white blazes painted on brown to make them stand out. It just struck me how precise the new ones were. I wish I had a tape measure at the time. I swear the new ones were measured. Either way, the MATC is doing a great job.

[JustaTouron]

All kidding aside, I think someone has passed a standard mandating the height and angle to the trail of the blazes. On my recent hike, I noticed many blazes that were painted black and a new white blaze painted inches away from the old one. It appeared to me the old one was too low or not directly facing the trail. It looked like the old one was functional, but some pencil pusher saw it a not uniform enough.


There are standards. But as the trails are mostly maintained by volunteers conformity with those standards varies. And the pencil pushers have a heard time enforcing anything. It is possible that a new trail maintainer who is OCD took over for one that was a bit more lax. I know one trail maintainer who owns 3 miles of trail (not AT) he is quite OCD and painted over and put up new blazes.

[max patch]

The AT and BM trails share the same pathway from Three Forks to Long Creek Falls (mile marker 4.3 to 5.2). Twice this year (different trips) I was asked by thru hikers if they were still on the AT. What may be obvious to us may not be obvious to a new hiker.

[Drybones]

Yea, there are a LOT of places where a compass can do more harm than good; I got off trail at the base of Roan Mt, 3 years later I was absolutely sure I knew which way to go. AND, my compass agreed with me, for you see, NOBO from the "South" base of Roan, is actually compass SOUTH!! 2 miles of wrong way hiking & I was again a NOBO hiker, even though my compass said I was going south for about 4 miles AFTER getting back to my start point. So I did an 8 mile hike, but only clocked 4 trail miles.

Lesson learned: I now take a compass bearing EVERY TIME I get off the trail, for any reason. AND, I write it down.

I'm directionally challenged....I could get lost with a compass and a can of bread crumbs.

[BirdBrain]

I'm directionally challenged....I could get lost with a compass and a can of bread crumbs.

Replace the bread crumbs with a map. (Now where is that "I'm just kidding" big grin icon?) :D

[max patch]

I have fallen asleep on the trail one time in my life (after lunch in Maine on top of Moody). I woke up and for the only time in my life hiked the wrong way. Got to the the bottom and ran into some fellow thru's and asked them why they were back tracking.

So don't take naps and you'll be fine. :)

[atmilkman]

I have fallen asleep on the trail one time in my life (after lunch in Maine on top of Moody). I woke up and for the only time in my life hiked the wrong way. Got to the the bottom and ran into some fellow thru's and asked them why they were back tracking.

So don't take naps and you'll be fine. :)

That's next to impossible. When you fall asleep just make sure your feet are headed the right way before you go out. Then when you wake up just head that way. (That's what I do when I'm pulling maintenance unless I'm runnin' the mower).

[BirdBrain]

I have fallen asleep on the trail one time in my life (after lunch in Maine on top of Moody). I woke up and for the only time in my life hiked the wrong way. Got to the the bottom and ran into some fellow thru's and asked them why they were back tracking.

So don't take naps and you'll be fine. :)

Wow! Had to hike Moody twice. At least they stopped you before you went up Hall.

[QuabbinHiker]

I predict someday soon a hiker will demand that each white blaze on the tree somehow provide him or her with a constant wi-fi signal.

[nu2hike]

I believe it would be beneficial to put some sort of directional indicator at road crossings and blue blazed trails heading to shelters!
I found myself "momentarily displaced" once getting back onto the trail after leaving a shelter! It was the one and only time that my " leave right turn right or leave left turn left" montra has failed me!

[Another Kevin]

On the other hand, this is probably a trifle excessive:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7881561738_6cf173d928_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/)
IMG_2558 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/) by ke9tv (http://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr
(How long am I supposed to stand there reading the signs?)

[hikerboy57]

On the other hand, this is probably a trifle excessive:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7881561738_6cf173d928_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/)
IMG_2558 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/) by ke9tv (http://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr
(How long am I supposed to stand there reading the signs?)seeing that harriman state park has about 80 trails,its really not overkill.

[QuabbinHiker]

On the other hand, this is probably a trifle excessive:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7881561738_6cf173d928_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/)
IMG_2558 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/) by ke9tv (http://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr
(How long am I supposed to stand there reading the signs?)

I think you are supposed to stand there as long as it takes reading the signs until you know where you are going. Kinda obvious. The signs are needed and we should be thankful for the people that take the time to place them.

[CanadianEh]

One of the best marked trails I've been on used orange reflective triangles tacked to trees along the hike. The direction the triangle faced was the direction the trail took. It was extremely useful over rocky sections or when you can to sharp, hidden corners. I certainly don't expect all trails to be marked like that (in fact, most trails I hike aren't marked at all), but wow I was impressed with the volunteers who maintained those blazes on that route!

[Rolls Kanardly]

I think I just tossed my "Spot" in my dresser. If my wife got her "Spot" message showing I was going backwards on a hike I have been dreaming about and planning for the last two years she would know I was nuts and would hold it in reserve forever. Rolls Kanardly

[Rolls Kanardly]

One blaze every quarter mile works out to be about 8,700 white blazes for a 2,180 miles trail. After all the "Points to Ponder" while hiking for six months I think it will probably be 80,000 blazes to me too. Rolls Kanardly

[Monkeywrench]

We used to blaze trails with a double blaze at turns where the upper blaze was off-set in the direction one should turn. For some reason the standard was changed some years ago so that the double blaze is done without the off-set.

I never understood this change as there are still two blazes so it is no more of a visual intrusion on the landscape, they just are configured to convey less information. I'm sure some reason exists for this, I just don't know what it is.

[Another Kevin]

We used to blaze trails with a double blaze at turns where the upper blaze was off-set in the direction one should turn. For some reason the standard was changed some years ago so that the double blaze is done without the off-set.

I never understood this change as there are still two blazes so it is no more of a visual intrusion on the landscape, they just are configured to convey less information. I'm sure some reason exists for this, I just don't know what it is.

Probably some reactionary on the maintenance committee thinks that Garvey blazes are a newfangled thing that makes things too easy.

Longish WB thread on the subject here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?59832-To-offset-or-not-to-offset).

[Deco]

I think they should replace all white blazes with the picture of a hiker. Head facing in one direction and the hind end facing the other. You decide which end faces what direction.

[Feral Bill]

I should mention that most trails in North America have no blazes whatever, yet people successfully hike them.

[Dogwood]

Hi folks; I'm in the planning stages, doing my research and just wondering if the "blaze" shows which direction is N or S, and, if not, then "why in blazes" not? Wouldn't that be a good idea? Because my reading suggests that folks don't actually get lost too often; however, (again, according to what I've read) they DO sometimes, after taking a break, come back to the trail, and then wander off in the wrong direction -- sometimes for miles... What do y'all think? ( I know, that's what compasses are for -- still, it might be nice if you didn't need a compass -- one more thing you can do without, right?)
Thanks!,
Jeff

NO, that wouldn't be a good idea. Yeah, that's what we need, solar powered blinking neon compass direction pointers above all the umpteen blazes.
Let's not give the technocrats anymore invasive ideas. It's not needed even if it was just an added decal or marker. Where's your sense of adventure.

Do you know the AT doesn't always take a direct N/S direction? Do you know there are places on the AT that I've visually seen ahead up to 8 blazes and then have turned around and counted another 8 in the opposite direction? That's up to 16 blazes in 1/4 - 1/2 of a mile. Do you know there is an AT Shelter about every 6-8 miles. Do you know the AT Thru-hikers Data Book has described benchmarks not more than 4-5 miles from each other more often closer than that?

If you have a problem hiking the AT with ALL THE INFO already available well.... Isn't it enough already? Let's at least maintain some sense that its "A walk in the wilderness."

[Dogwood]

One of the best marked trails I've been on used orange reflective triangles tacked to trees along the hike. The direction the triangle faced was the direction the trail took. It was extremely useful over rocky sections or when you can to sharp, hidden corners. I certainly don't expect all trails to be marked like that (in fact, most trails I hike aren't marked at all), but wow I was impressed with the volunteers who maintained those blazes on that route!

Have you ever hiked at night with a headlamp on a trail with such highly reflective blazes, especially one that's been over blazed? It can be intrusive IMHO. These types of highly reflective blazes are mostly used on trails when the trail is widely experienced under specific conditions such as rain, fog(smoke), at night, or trails that are experienced by many under snow/ice, etc They use blazes like this on snowmobile, sking, snowshoeing, and winter hiking trails. Where you live it can make sense though as long as it's not overdone.

[Lemni Skate]

I really don't think the original idea is that bad. There's all sorts of little ways they could indicated direction. Even if they only did it once every ten blazes. Put a dot above the blaze for north bound, and one below the blaze for south bound. I'm by no means suggesting we need to do that, because I'm not into making somebody else do work I'm not willing to do, but shooting down the idea as ridiculous is a little harsh.

[max patch]

We used to blaze trails with a double blaze at turns where the upper blaze was off-set in the direction one should turn. For some reason the standard was changed some years ago so that the double blaze is done without the off-set.

I never understood this change as there are still two blazes so it is no more of a visual intrusion on the landscape, they just are configured to convey less information. I'm sure some reason exists for this, I just don't know what it is.

I wasn't aware of this so I went to the ATC website. Apparently it is up to each club to decide. I agree that since you are painting 2 blazes anyway that the use of the offset is preferable. I wonder why a club would choose to do otherwise?

Double-Blazing Standards: The standard (two-inch by six-inch) white paint blaze has marked
the A.T. footpath since the 1930s. ATC has advocated the use of the double blaze to indicate
turns or other places where hikers should be alert. In July 1995, ATC adopted the following
amendment in response to the increasing variations in blazing standards:
Individual clubs may elect to choose one of two alternatives for double paint blazes,
the in-line double paint blaze or the standard offset double paint blaze, but no other
variations. Painted arrows or blazes that are slanted or at an angle are nonstandard
and should be removed and replaced by standard blazes. Only one of the two
variations for double paint blazing at turns may be chosen, and it must be chosen for
application to the club’s entire Trail section. In areas where clubs choose the offset
blaze, an in-line blaze may be desirable at locations other than turns, where a
double-blaze warning is necessary.
If a club intends to change its blazing style, it should consult with its agency
partner(s) before implementation, and it should incorporate these changes into its
local management plan prior to implementing the change. Individual maintainers
should not effect a change to the offset blaze on the basis of their personal
preferences. It is hoped that—by giving maintaining clubs discretion to choose only
one of two variations—nonstandard blazing should be reduced, if not eliminated.
Both the in-line and the offset double blaze should be used sparingly, since they
become meaningless with frequent use. Double blazes are used to indicate abrupt
changes in the direction of the A.T. or at other points where hikers should be
especially alert. Use two standard (two-inch by six-inch) white blazes, one above the
other and two inches apart; if using the offset, the upper blaze should be clearly offset approximately two inches in the direction of the turn.

[Dogwood]

On the other hand, this is probably a trifle excessive:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7881561738_6cf173d928_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/)
IMG_2558 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/7881561738/) by ke9tv (http://www.flickr.com/people/ke9tv/), on Flickr
(How long am I supposed to stand there reading the signs?)

That's a sign post in NY possibly at the Long Path/AT junction. This is what can happen when you let Naw Yarkers sign trails. Surprised there wasn't a Tony's Pizza Shop at the intersection. :)

[Plodderman]

Cannot take all the fun out of the hike.

[Dogwood]

I think they should replace every third blaze with a scratch and sniff decal. The smells associated with going north draw a hiker north and the smells associated with going south draw a hiker south and are appropriately used in degree with how far north or south you are.

How about adding a decal of a confederate soldier in uniform to every 5th blaze going south and the picture of a union soldier above every 5th blaze going north?

[Dogwood]

I just got an email from Sherwin Williams. They say they are in favor of adding more paint to ANYTHING including trees, rocks, walls, bridges, etc.

[Dogwood]

Home Depot wants to support the AT too. They are in favor of increasing the number of shelters and rebuilding all the old ones. They are offering a 30 % discount on all building materials used for shelters.

[JustaTouron]

Do you know the AT doesn't always take a direct N/S direction? Do you know there are places on the AT that I've visually seen ahead up to 8 blazes and then have turned around and counted another 8 in the opposite direction?

That is too many blazes. I was taught (when doing the painting on a trail) is as you pass one blaze, you should see the next. If you can stand in any one point and see three blazes (let alone 8) then there are too many. If you walk more than 15 feet and don't see one, there isn't enough.

[JustaTouron]

That's a sign post in NY possibly at the Long Path/AT junction. This is what can happen when you let Naw Yarkers sign trails. Surprised there wasn't a Tony's Pizza Shop at the intersection. :)

Oh, like AT thru hikers would object to a pizza shop being on the trail......

[Rasty]

I think they should replace every third blaze with a scratch and sniff decal. The smells associated with going north draw a hiker north and the smells associated with going south draw a hiker south and are appropriately used in degree with how far north or south you are.

How about adding a decal of a confederate soldier in uniform to every 5th blaze going south and the picture of a union soldier above every 5th blaze going north?

If it smells of bacon which direction should you go?

[Dogwood]

If it smells of bacon which direction should you go?

Never saw a Piggly Wiggly grocery store with their logo of a pig on their signage in Vermont! What immediately comes to mind when you think Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine? If you say bacon Rasty you need counseling. You've been thinking too much of dogs saying "I love BAAACON!" For me it's maple leaves, maple syrup, Vermont cheese, skiing, The White Mountains, lumberjacks, evergreen forests, etc. As you go north the scratch and sniffs become scents of a fir forest, maple syrup, etc. and as you go south the scents become..... This is where southern pride kicks in. Help me southerners.

[Dogwood]

Seeing a blaze every 15 ft is WAY TOO DAMN often! Who told ya that? That's close enough for me to experience a blaze every 3-4 steps! I see Sherwin Williams emailed you too. Are they giving you free hiking gear to say that? You must be an unemployed painter.

[Rasty]

Never saw a Piggly Wiggly grocery store with their logo of a pig on their signage in Vermont! What immediately comes to mind when you think Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine? If you say bacon Rasty you need counseling. You've been thinking too much of dogs saying "I love BAAACON!" For me it's maple leaves, maple syrup, Vermont cheese, skiing, The White Mountains, lumberjacks, evergreen forests, etc. As you go north the scratch and sniffs become scents of a fir forest, maple syrup, etc. and as you go south the scents become..... This is where southern pride kicks in. Help me southerners.

Maple flavored bacon!

[Dogwood]

LOL. There are a few therapists you might want to your discuss your bacon infatuation with.

[lillium Superbum]

the journey IS the destination!

[Monkeywrench]

Seeing a blaze every 15 ft is WAY TOO DAMN often! Who told ya that? That's close enough for me to experience a blaze every 3-4 steps! I see Sherwin Williams emailed you too. Are they giving you free hiking gear to say that? You must be an unemployed painter.

I think you misread JustATouron's post. He didn't say there should be a blaze every 15 feet. He said you shouldn't have to walk more than 15 feet without seeing the next blaze. That next blaze could be 100 feet down the trail.

[JustaTouron]

Seeing a blaze every 15 ft is WAY TOO DAMN often! Who told ya that? That's close enough for me to experience a blaze every 3-4 steps! I see Sherwin Williams emailed you too. Are they giving you free hiking gear to say that? You must be an unemployed painter.

No, not one every 15 feet. You pass a blaze, you walk 15 feet, you should see a blaze (not be standing next to the next one)

[Rasty]

LOL. There are a few therapists you might want to your discuss your bacon infatuation with.

Do they have Bacon?

[English Stu]

Right in right out/left in left out, I tell myself that when I move off the trail to a shelter. I am also in the habit of making a twig arrow on the trail for the direction and at night pointing my poles next to my shelter in the direction of travel. I even do this at rest stops if I have moved off the trail and yes I have been turned round.

[Another Kevin]

iThe next blaze should be in sight after 15 feet from the last? I guess in an area where you have lots of confusing intersecting paths. I hike in an area where the policy of the land manager is to blaze starts/ends, junctions, and areas where routefinding is difficult. If a trail is obvious, particularly if it's following a natural handrail like a ridge, stream, or cliff, then a blaze for reassurance every quarter mile is enough. But there may be multiple blazes in sight for a tricky rock scramble, although it seems to be commoner to blaze the top and bottom and say to the hiker, "you figure it out."

[Monkeywrench]

iThe next blaze should be in sight after 15 feet from the last? I guess in an area where you have lots of confusing intersecting paths. I hike in an area where the policy of the land manager is to blaze starts/ends, junctions, and areas where routefinding is difficult. If a trail is obvious, particularly if it's following a natural handrail like a ridge, stream, or cliff, then a blaze for reassurance every quarter mile is enough. But there may be multiple blazes in sight for a tricky rock scramble, although it seems to be commoner to blaze the top and bottom and say to the hiker, "you figure it out."

In the winter with 4' - 6' of snow on the ground, few trails are obvious.

[Another Kevin]

In the winter with 4' - 6' of snow on the ground, few trails are obvious.

Don't I know it! On the other hand, off-trail travel is often easier on snowshoes or skis. You can cruise right over rocks and brush that would be ankle-breakers in the summer. (I can recall last summer coming down off one mountain and saying, "never again will I bushwhack that peak in summer!" Got cut all to hell and gone, what with pushing through all the blackberries, stinging nettles, red spruce, and viburnum. When I got back in to work on Monday, my labmate said "what did you do, make love to a pricker bush?"

I'm not sure more frequent blazing would help the "few trails are obvious in the winter" problem very much. A blaze on the upwind side of a tree gets encrusted with snow and blends into the trunk. Big tall cairns work, but they're worthwhile only in a few special circumstances (like above-treeline in the Whites). But infrequent blazing still works when the trail is following a handrail feature. Ridges, streams and cliffs are still in the same place in the winter. (We hope! Some of the places around here have names like "Slide Mountain," "Avalanche Pass," "Cascade Mountain," for a reason!)

But it's a pretty safe assumption that a winter hiker spends a fair amount of time... well, not lost, exactly, quite, but following trails only approximately.

Just as this thread is straying a fair distance from the original topic of whether blazes ought show the direction. But I've said many times, WB threads don't drift, they blue-blaze and occasionally bushwhack.

[jefals]

NO, that wouldn't be a good idea. Yeah, that's what we need, solar powered blinking neon compass direction pointers above all the umpteen blazes.
Let's not give the technocrats anymore invasive ideas. It's not needed even if it was just an added decal or marker. Where's your sense of adventure.

Do you know the AT doesn't always take a direct N/S direction? Do you know there are places on the AT that I've visually seen ahead up to 8 blazes and then have turned around and counted another 8 in the opposite direction? That's up to 16 blazes in 1/4 - 1/2 of a mile. Do you know there is an AT Shelter about every 6-8 miles. Do you know the AT Thru-hikers Data Book has described benchmarks not more than 4-5 miles from each other more often closer than that?

If you have a problem hiking the AT with ALL THE INFO already available well.... Isn't it enough already? Let's at least maintain some sense that its "A walk in the wilderness."

Where's my sense of adventure? Well, we're talking about a 2,180 mile, 6 month, arduous challenge here, you know...I don't know -- where do you think my sense of adventure is?

Did I know the trail doesn't always take a direct N/S direction? REALLY? GEEZ!!! Well, I guess, then instead of just N/S, we would need actual compass headings, huh? But do you know that a simple "N", for someone who started at Springer mountain with the intent of getting to Katahdin, would probably be sufficient to let him know he is heading in the correct direction, regardless of the actual declination adjusted compass heading, while an "S" would suffice for someone heading in the opposite direction? (You're not the first person that felt the need to point out that you may be going in a direction that isn't actually north or south; I guess, I should have, instead of asking for "N" and "S", just asked for "S" - for Springer and "K" for Katahdin...This will work just as good and would have eliminated some childishness.
As for the shelters every 6 to 8 miles and the benchmarks every 4 or 5 miles. I guess you're implying that, worse case, you walk 8 miles in the wrong direction, so no big deal, you just walk 8 miles back, right? (From what I read, btw, some of these miles can be pretty tough, btw). See, I figure, I'm already planning on hiking 2180 miles, (or whatever the current exact mileage is). And those shelters you mention? They may be 1/2 mile off the trail, which adds another mile or so for each of those. Plus the walking you do to towns or in towns along the way; it adds up. And there's a time limit, with that park closing in October. So, I figure, I'm already doing enough mileage, and the fewer wrong turns the better!

[Dogwood]

I predict someday soon a hiker will demand that each white blaze on the tree somehow provide him or her with a constant wi-fi signal.

Did you have to say that? If Bill Gates can make money from it he'd put a team of engineers on it right now. Wi-Fi paint?

[middle to middle]

Getting turned around happens !

[Monkeywrench]

Getting turned around happens !

Twice on my thru-hike I got turned around and walked backwards. First time coming downhill into DWG I stopped at an overlook, took off my pack and enjoyed the view, put my pack back on and headed back the wrong way on the trail. Second time was in New Hampshire when I missed a switchback, noticed it right away, but when I turned around and got back on the trail I took the wrong side of the switchback and started heading back south.

In the first instance I walked about 5 minutes before realizing my mistake. In the second instance I probably walked about 15 or 20 paces before I figured it out.

If you're paying attention I think it would be pretty hard to walk any significant distance in the wrong direction without realizing something is amiss. If you're not paying attention, you probably shouldn't be out in the woods.

[Monkeywrench]

Don't I know it! On the other hand, off-trail travel is often easier on snowshoes or skis. You can cruise right over rocks and brush that would be ankle-breakers in the summer. (I can recall last summer coming down off one mountain and saying, "never again will I bushwhack that peak in summer!" Got cut all to hell and gone, what with pushing through all the blackberries, stinging nettles, red spruce, and viburnum. When I got back in to work on Monday, my labmate said "what did you do, make love to a pricker bush?"

I'm not sure more frequent blazing would help the "few trails are obvious in the winter" problem very much. A blaze on the upwind side of a tree gets encrusted with snow and blends into the trunk. Big tall cairns work, but they're worthwhile only in a few special circumstances (like above-treeline in the Whites). But infrequent blazing still works when the trail is following a handrail feature. Ridges, streams and cliffs are still in the same place in the winter. (We hope! Some of the places around here have names like "Slide Mountain," "Avalanche Pass," "Cascade Mountain," for a reason!)

But it's a pretty safe assumption that a winter hiker spends a fair amount of time... well, not lost, exactly, quite, but following trails only approximately.

Just as this thread is straying a fair distance from the original topic of whether blazes ought show the direction. But I've said many times, WB threads don't drift, they blue-blaze and occasionally bushwhack.

Yup, winter hiking can be a challenge but it's a rewarding challenge. Even the most heavily used and abused back-country site is pristine in the winter. And there's no mud and no mosquitoes!

[hikerboy57]

Where's my sense of adventure? Well, we're talking about a 2,180 mile, 6 month, arduous challenge here, you know...I don't know -- where do you think my sense of adventure is?

Did I know the trail doesn't always take a direct N/S direction? REALLY? GEEZ!!! Well, I guess, then instead of just N/S, we would need actual compass headings, huh? But do you know that a simple "N", for someone who started at Springer mountain with the intent of getting to Katahdin, would probably be sufficient to let him know he is heading in the correct direction, regardless of the actual declination adjusted compass heading, while an "S" would suffice for someone heading in the opposite direction? (You're not the first person that felt the need to point out that you may be going in a direction that isn't actually north or south; I guess, I should have, instead of asking for "N" and "S", just asked for "S" - for Springer and "K" for Katahdin...This will work just as good and would have eliminated some childishness.
As for the shelters every 6 to 8 miles and the benchmarks every 4 or 5 miles. I guess you're implying that, worse case, you walk 8 miles in the wrong direction, so no big deal, you just walk 8 miles back, right? (From what I read, btw, some of these miles can be pretty tough, btw). See, I figure, I'm already planning on hiking 2180 miles, (or whatever the current exact mileage is). And those shelters you mention? They may be 1/2 mile off the trail, which adds another mile or so for each of those. Plus the walking you do to towns or in towns along the way; it adds up. And there's a time limit, with that park closing in October. So, I figure, I'm already doing enough mileage, and the fewer wrong turns the better!
then try to pay attention.

[Just Bill]

This thread is still going huh?
Why don't they pave the trail and make it ADA compliant, provide guides, hold your hand, and pay for thru-hikers to hike the trail? Why are we wasting time debating direction when there are serious issues to discuss?

[Dogwood]

Follow Just Bill. He know which way is north. Wait. Cancel that. He's a speed demon. He'd leave most of us behind in short order.....which would soon have us wondering again.....which way north is.

Can't we talk about speed hikes? I haven't seem enough of those threads lately.

Has anyone heard of taking personal responsibility for their hikes?......as in carrying a compass or GPS unit? if they were that concerned about getting lost. Where are all the people professing HYOH when you need them.

The way I look at it the odds of going the right direction - north or south- are pretty good. 50% isn't that bad. Take those odds at Vegas any day.

This pack is so heavy. Can you carry it for me?

Will you zip up my sleeping bag for me? i'm having a hard time reaching the zip.

Those damn hostels want me to pay them? The nerve of some people.

So how much does it cost to do a thru-hike?

What's the BEST tent?

How long will it take me to do a thru-hike?

A bear attacked me for my food.

I want to carry a blow gun on my thru-hike. what do you think?

What size handgun did you carry on your thru-hike?

What's your pack wt? Is my pack too heavy?

What kind of food do you eat when hiking? Can i buy hiking food at a grocery store?

How many miles per day do you hike?

Trail runners or boots - that is the question?

What's the BEST rain jacket?

Can I put up my tent, hammock, tarp in a shelter?

Can anyone recommend a GOOD backpack?

What's the wt of your BIG 3?

Do I need maps to hike the AT?

Can you recommend some food for the trail?

What's a SEARCH feature?

What's Google used for?

Lightest 1 person tent?

[Another Kevin]

Dogwood: Some of those questions are stupid. Some are sensible questions that recur year after year, that we all just tire of answering. But even those threads sometimes wind up containing a new insight.

The answers to the questions, in order, are: No, I won't carry your pack or zip your bag. Yes, it costs too much. Live with it. It depends. It depends. Oh, I'm so sorry. A blow-gun? That's a new one for me. Why on earth would I carry a handgun? Yes, your pack is too heavy. I buy almost all my hiking food at grocery stores (or grow it myself). It varies. It depends. It depends. No, you may not. What do you need to carry in it? See below. Probably. Sure, but read my other messages about that. LOL! http://lmgtfy.com/ I have no idea.

My Big 4 are 9 lb 1 ounce:

Pack 3 lb 12 oz
Tent 1 lb 11 oz
Bag 2 lb 11 oz
Sleeping pad 15 oz

:)

[fredmugs]

If you're that concerned / scared buy a GPS and add this to it:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/digital/maps/on-the-trail-maps/trails/trailhead-series-appalachian-trail/prod91298.html#gallery-dialog