I really don't get the fear

[Pedaling Fool]

GREAT IDEA. Trade a species that MAY charge you, for one that will LIKELY STALK YOU. The mountain lion is a much more dangerous species then a feral pig. Growing up in the Adirondacks of NY I had several encounters with Pumas (mountain lions). Put of course according to the government there are no mountain lions left (wrong). I rather take my chances with a feral pig, then a mountain lion any day.


First off I'm not worried about a pig charging me.

However, beyond that, I've heard this opinion before and I really don't understand it, in light that this is a hiking website with people supposedly who like to seek fellowship with the wilderness (I know not much of a wilderness, but that's besides the point) we should be doing all we can to return it as much as possible to its former glory.

What do people want? Just to walk in the woods, period:confused: I really don't get it.

If they are making a comeback, should we exterminate them again? Is that your plan birchy?




P.S. I was responding to birchy's remarks in the other thread, but then I noticed it was in the Straight Forward forum, so I opened another thread.

[Jim Adams]

Pigs and moose are probably the most dangerous wildlife on the trail. Pigs are very aggressive as well as moose...especially female moose. Most bears (key word most) will run from humans. Most dangerous animals along the trail are strange dogs...both domesticated and feral. I learned a lot about mountain lions while on the PCT...they don't like human meat and therefore don't attack for food. They do attack mt. bikers and runners because that fast movement excites their attack instinct but hikers are just too slow to excite them into aggression. The one that I saw easily watched me walk toward him / her for 300 yards and was very calm and just laid there until it knew that I saw it...then it was gone. Pigs are very aggressive as well as moose...especially female moose.

[Hill Ape]

i hunt, for food only never trophy. i also raise animals, that cute chicken in the yard, will one day be on my plate. its not the killing that bothers me.

i understand the need to hunt for population control. whitetail around here would explode if not managed. that leads to a massive depletion of their food sources, and results in a greater loss of life.

i don't report bears, because of the kill policy.

and i really don't understand the policy of wholesale killing of apex predators. can't we all just coexist? we are not really prey, no animal hunts humans. attacks by any animal are exceeding rare, and usually the end result of a series of mistakes.

[kayak karl]

fear NO, respect YES

[Odd Man Out]

...and i really don't understand the policy of wholesale killing of apex predators. can't we all just coexist? we are not really prey, no animal hunts humans. attacks by any animal are exceeding rare, and usually the end result of a series of mistakes.

Do some degree, I suspect is a byproduct of an attitude from years ago. People's attitudes do change, but it is a slow process:
This is from the 1920 NPS Guide to Yellowstone NP, under description of wildlife:

Mountain Lion.—Felis hippolestes Merriam.—These most destructive of the predatory animals in the park have been hunted and destroyed until at the present time there are comparatively few remaining. A small number are still to be found within the park, however, where they continually destroy the game animals such as elk, deer, and mountain sheep.

Canada Lynx.—Lynx canadensis canadensis Kerr.—A few of these big cats are found scattered over the timbered area of the park, where they feed largely on snowshoe rabbits, but where also they are suspected of destroying much game in the way of young elk, deer, and sheep.

Gray Wolf.—Canis nubilus Say.—These big wolves, although not present in great numbers, are sufficiently numerous to cause the destruction of much game. They follow the elk herds back into the mountains in summer and return with them in winter to the lower levels, especially the Lamar and lower Yellowstone Valleys and Blacktail and Hellroaring regions. They are great wanderers and quickly seek fresh hunting grounds if disturbed or if game becomes scarce in their accustomed haunts.

Coyote.—Canis latrans Say.—Coyotes are abundant throughout the park, especially in the open areas, but their tracks may be found on the trails through forest areas as they pass from one opening to another of their favorite hunting grounds. Hundreds have been killed in the park for the protection of game animals, but their numbers are still sufficient to form a serious check on the increase of many species.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/brochures/1920/yell/sec7.htm

[jeffmeh]

I suspect the reason that many government agencies here in the Northeast deny that the cougar is back, despite pretty conclusive evidence, is that they don't want to rile up populist "kill them" sentiment. It's for the children, you know. :)

[Hill Ape]

one of the reasons why i have so much wildlife across my property is some years ago a piece was sold off, its now part of a wildlife rehabilitation center. lots of bears, coyotes, deer, and yes panthers in large cages. i hear some strange things at night. so they rescue these injured panthers, treat them, but then are prevented by law from releasing them back into the wild. reason being, we no longer have them in the wild. you know, where they were injured and rescued from. all the while state officials keep saying there is no wild panther population anymore. they even toured the rehab center, saw the animals there. who are you going to believe, the politicians or your lying eyes?

[Pedaling Fool]

They do attack mt. bikers and runners because that fast movement excites their attack instinct but hikers are just too slow to excite them into aggression. You sure? I thought it was because we taste like chicken ;)

[Sarcasm the elf]

i hunt, for food only never trophy. i also raise animals, that cute chicken in the yard, will one day be on my plate. its not the killing that bothers me.

i understand the need to hunt for population control. whitetail around here would explode if not managed. that leads to a massive depletion of their food sources, and results in a greater loss of life.

i don't report bears, because of the kill policy.

and i really don't understand the policy of wholesale killing of apex predators. can't we all just coexist? we are not really prey, no animal hunts humans. attacks by any animal are exceeding rare, and usually the end result of a series of mistakes.

+1, that response was perfect.

[Hill Ape]

i've heard vegans taste better, like grain fed meat. meat eaters never taste good, its why we don't eat predators for the most part. women taste better than men too.

so, any vegan ladies need a hiking partner? i promise not to eat you unless its the last resort

[Just Bill]

PF- Pretty well everyone posting thus far has gotten over the fear with experience. Although I have a recent fear of Ape attack. I used to work more often with Scout groups, and still take newbies out often enough to be reminded that for those that haven't grown up hiking and camping- the woods are way more dangerous than you can possibly imagine they are imagining. The imagination is a horrible thing- while most folks get over the basics after a few years- some parts of the imagination are hard to let go. Simple answer- how many town folks you speak to ask you if you are afraid of being eaten by a bear? Town folks still deeply believe that they have a 50/50 chance of being attacked/injured/killed if they spend a week in the woods. Simplest answer- people are ignorant.

[Hill Ape]

apes are by far the biggest danger on the trail, if you smell one coming, run, run fast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Mowhcj8OM

[BirdBrain]

fear NO, respect YES

+1 on that. Proper respect, knowledge, and precautionary measures will keep you safe. Even a beaver can kill you if you don't show it the proper respect it deserves. People make the mistake of not grasping that we are in their backyard and on their terms. They don't want anything to do with us. When we do something stupid and force their hand, they will defend themselves if they feel threatened. In the 100-mile wilderness a moose almost walked into me. When it realized I was there it changed course. When I realized it was there. I stopped in my tracks and let it do what it wanted to do. I also looked for the nearest tree to keep between us if it decided it felt threatened.

[Pedaling Fool]

PF- Pretty well everyone posting thus far has gotten over the fear with experience. Although I have a recent fear of Ape attack. I was speaking specifically about the mountain lion issue, not in general terms. And it was in direct response to birchy's post. I've heard this same concern in the AT hiking community. I don't get it.

[Just Bill]

I think the general terms explain your specific question. Experienced folks turn fear into respect. Inexperienced folks never get past the fear. Respect is a rational term that garners rational thoughts on the subject. Fear is an irrational term; resulting in irrational responses like the one you put in your OP. Your signature line perhaps describes the issue best. One side is rational, the other is emotional- and they are incompatible.

[Another Kevin]

I'd think it was wonderful if Puma concolor came back, and if Canis latrans X lupus were to breed itself back into the timberwolf (as appears to be happening). Exterminating the top predators has been an ecologic disaster for the Eastern woodlands, turning deer from valued game into nuisance vermin, and ruining large tracts with their overbrowsing.

jeffmeh is probably dead on with his comment about not admitting to their existence, to avoid arousing the "kill them to protect the children!" sentiments.

I know that my uncle spotted and tracked a cougar once in the upper Delaware valley. My brother still has the plaster casts he made of the tracks. The environmental conservation people pooh-poohed his report, saying "it must have been a big lynx." A couple of weeks later, he saw a newspaper story about a cougar being captured in the Catskills. That one had apparently, according to the story, been a captive that had escaped some time earlier from a wild animal park in (?) Pennsylvania. Was it the same beast, crossing the river at Minisink Ford? Who knows? My uncle didn't get a good enough look at it to have seen its ear tag, although he saw the long tail (which a lynx doesn't have).

For that matter, I'd appreciate a few more Lynx canadensis (or even Lynx rufus) around here. I'm overrun with both rabbits and hares. And chipmunks. Why can't I get my cats to take any interest in chipmunks?

[Drybones]

Fear can save your life or get you killed depending on how you react. If my wife is startled she screams, I instinctively stay quiet and immediately focus to determine what caused the adenaline rush. A high pitched noise is like a dinner bell to a predator.

[Wise Old Owl]

Getting back to Pedaling Fool's original question... people will post more about their subconscious thought's here than actually verbalize their fears in public. So a predominate feature of threads is "fear of?" and lets talk about it till I feel better because in public I might get laughed at. But please do not solve my problem, I am amazed at the large majority of people though will call out to get help on a issue but do not want to hear about a solution...They can't or won't move past the problem... Lately - I have been thinking we need a cyber couch at WB.

For example... "I think/fear I have lyme disease... " Ok we can talk about that... but go see a doctor. "I don't like western medicine." - is the reply.

For example ...."I have Ants in my kitchen...." Ok here is a good solution, one of several ideas. Call a Pest Control operator... "I am allergic to chemicals and insecticides" - is the reply....


Oh the above post... Drybones... do you salivate when you hear the bell or the scream?:rolleyes:

[Wise Old Owl]

For that matter, I'd appreciate a few more Lynx canadensis (or even Lynx rufus) around here. I'm overrun with both rabbits and hares. And chipmunks. Why can't I get my cats to take any interest in chipmunks?


Why do you want to get rid of Rabbits & Chipmunks? They are so cute....

[BirdBrain]

I think the general terms explain your specific question. Experienced folks turn fear into respect. Inexperienced folks never get past the fear. Respect is a rational term that garners rational thoughts on the subject. Fear is an irrational term; resulting in irrational responses like the one you put in your OP. Your signature line perhaps describes the issue best. One side is rational, the other is emotional- and they are incompatible.

+1 on that. Great answer.

Wow! Where did that come from? I have seen many of your posts. You seem to be having way too much fun on here. That is the most logical and serious thing I have seen you post.

[fiddlehead]

I've been charged by a few different animals in the wild and everytime, no matter how much I prepared myself mentally for these situations, every time, I was scared.
The adrenaline starts pumping fast and you want to go into action.

Sometimes, like a black bear charge, you have to hold it back and be calm. (VA)
When an ape attacked me (5 times he jumped on my back) I did everything wrong because I couldn't stay calm. I screamed and attacked. (Thai)
When I snuck up on a large mountain lion who was stalking a dog, the fear came fast and hard. (CA)
I probably never ran faster than when the adrenaline kicked in because a cow moose was following me and got to within 4 feet away (WY)
I couldn't believe the wild boar was that stupid to charge me even though I had a machete in my hand. I still got scared until he veered away in the last few seconds. (Thai)
Or hiking alone and just watching a griz working his way towards you from 1/4 mile away as you're climbing a mountain and you realize the wind is blowing away from him so, he has no idea you are there.
That feeling is fear, no matter how experienced you are

So, tell yourselves you are not scared. Till it happens. Then tell us how you lost it.

[Another Kevin]

Why do you want to get rid of Rabbits & Chipmunks? They are so cute....

And I'd imagine that an owl would find chipmunks pretty darned tasty. ;)

[Hill Ape]

[QUOTE=fiddlehead;1512534
When an ape attacked me (5 times he jumped on my back) I did everything wrong because I couldn't stay calm. I screamed and attacked. (Thai)[/QUOTE]

LOL ah that made my day, really. I have a feeling it was monkey, not an ape, they are just uncouth and uncilvilized. And that wasn't an attack, that was a mating dance. Sadly, they never write, they never call.


I'm sticking to my question. Has anyone here, ever had a violent encounter with a black bear or boar along the Appalachian Trail corridor?

Anyone? Hello crickets. Goodbye horses.

[Wise Old Owl]

And I'd imagine that an owl would find chipmunks pretty darned tasty. ;)



You can hire me......:cool:


Hill Ape - NOpe.

[jeffmeh]

In terms of why we fear, one must realize that evolutionarily, those humans who were afraid of the rustling sound in the bush and ran away were more likley to pass on their genes than those who were not, when that rustling turned out to be a large predator. We are quite literally the descendants of the fearful.

This also explains why in the media, only bad news is news, and why people think this has been a terrible wildfire season even though the real numbers are relatively low historically. I would like to think that people can look at data critically and discern facts from exaggeration, but my experience tells me otherwise.

I'll cite a reference on the wildfire thing. :) http://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/nfn.htm

[The Ace]

I'm sticking to my question. Has anyone here, ever had a violent encounter with a black bear or boar along the Appalachian Trail corridor?

Anyone? Hello crickets. Goodbye horses.
Yes, I have had a violent encounter with a black bear on the AT. At least the violence was committed by me, and as far as I know the bear is still running. If you take the time to read some of the various threads, and there is plenty of information here, you will see that a number of people on here have had face-to-face encounters (and in one case paw-to-hair) on the AT. The general consensus of the reports indicates that the hikers prevail, although there are reports that a lot of bears that just forfeit.

[Marta]

Not along the AT corridor..but I was in my tent in a front-country campsite just after dawn day before yesterday when I heard some shouting nearby. Apparently a young bear came into a neighboring site and ran his paw along the tent, patting a guy's head in the process. The bear was driven off by shouting and throwing things at him.

Today there was a notice on the GNP website that Rising Sun campground has been closed while they engage in some "aversive conditioning" on a bear or two.

[vamelungeon]

I responded in the feral hog thread about getting charged by one, and did that hog charge scare me? You're damn right. Am I afraid to go into the woods? No. I have seen a mountain lion on the AT, and I've seen bears in the woods and all sorts of other wildlife. I've gone in the woods my entire life and never been hurt by anything. I would like to see some of you FEARLESS types not get unnerved by a charging feral hog though. He was too close and closing on me too fast for me to climb or even get behind a tree, so I'm glad he (or she) had a change of heart. I guess the hog was bluffing but I don't know. I wasn't able to do much other than yell and wave my hiking poles above my head, but that apparently worked. This was my first encounter with a feral hog and totally unexpected. I don't think feral hogs are attacking humans, but perhaps this one was startled by me or had young pigs with it- there were other pigs there, this was the largest in the herd. But anyway, I've always had a great respect for wildlife, and I don't try to "interact" as I see some people do. It's always been my experience that if you leave them alone they will leave you alone.

[Pedaling Fool]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by birchy http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1511890#post1511890)
GREAT IDEA. Trade a species that MAY charge you, for one that will LIKELY STALK YOU. The mountain lion is a much more dangerous species then a feral pig. Growing up in the Adirondacks of NY I had several encounters with Pumas (mountain lions). Put of course according to the government there are no mountain lions left (wrong). I rather take my chances with a feral pig, then a mountain lion any day.






First off I'm not worried about a pig charging me.

However, beyond that, I've heard this opinion before and I really don't understand it, in light that this is a hiking website with people supposedly who like to seek fellowship with the wilderness (I know not much of a wilderness, but that's besides the point) we should be doing all we can to return it as much as possible to its former glory.

What do people want? Just to walk in the woods, period:confused: I really don't get it.

If they are making a comeback, should we exterminate them again? Is that your plan birchy?




P.S. I was responding to birchy's remarks in the other thread, but then I noticed it was in the Straight Forward forum, so I opened another thread.
Well, I guess I'm not going to get an answer to my question.

People are focusing too much on the word "fear". I'm not trying to say I'm fearless. I don't fear dogs because I've had so many encounters on them, both from cycling and running. However, when a big rottweiler charges me (which was my latest encounter with a dog) I still get a rush of adrenaline and yes, you can say a rush of fear. But thanks to experiene and the human brain I can control that fear and do something about that dog rushing me.

And when I see a bear or moose or whatever on the trail there is, in part, a slight feeling of fear. But that's not the point of my question.

I'm not going to restate my question, because I see I'm not going to get an answer. Evidently there are a lot of people that want the experience of wilderness without the wilderness.:confused:

[JustaTouron]

Quick trivia question:

Does anybody know that the most deadly animal in the world is? Hint: It is quite prevalent on the AT.

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm sure you're going to say it's the human animal.

[Hill Ape]

oh oh i know this one!!! i'll keep quiet though, just to see the funny responses

[Sarcasm the elf]

Quick trivia question:

Does anybody know that the most deadly animal in the world is? Hint: It is quite prevalent on the AT.

You're probably lookkng for Mosquito, though I would argue that it is actually the malaria bacteria that is the deadly animal.

[jeffmeh]

Worldwide, it would be the mosquito, but not here in the U.S. I would imagine it would be bees and wasps.

[Hill Ape]

ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner, not much of a game, i'm disappointed. the elf gets a small bottle of ben's deet

and yeah, i agree, its not the bugs, its the bugs in the bug. i've always said the most dangerous things out there are the things you can't see. whether water borne, insect borne, or hiker trash borne.

people spend so much time and worry on bears, not so much on norovirus, crypto and cyclo, giardia, sars. seems misguided to me.

[JustaTouron]

Yes, worldwide mosquito are number one.

In the USA -- Humans come in first, in fact humans murder more humans than the rest of the animals do combined here in the US. Number two, which very prevalent on the AT, is deer. Although they tend to leave hikers alone they typically kill a couple hundred motorists a year. #3 is mosquito not malaria but west nile virus. #4 is Bees. #5 are dogs. So you actually need to be more worried about your fellow hikers Fido than you do bears which come in at #8,

[Hill Ape]

just to keep beating this poor horse, number 8, is a bear granted, but not a black bear. can we please stop fear mongering, the appalachian trail isn't grizzly country. not that grizzly's should be feared either, just respected on a different level.

black bears are getting killed. not for aggressive behavior, but because people leave their food out, condition the bear to human interaction, and then report them as nuisance bears. it's just wrong.

[JustaTouron]

just to keep beating this poor horse, number 8, is a bear granted, but not a black bear. can we please stop fear mongering, the appalachian trail isn't grizzly country. not that grizzly's should be feared either, just respected on a different level.

black bears are getting killed. not for aggressive behavior, but because people leave their food out, condition the bear to human interaction, and then report them as nuisance bears. it's just wrong.

What about my post suggest bear fear mongering??????

Bears kills on average 3 Americans a year. Seven animals are worse, (six if you don't count humans) including Fido and Bambi.

[Hill Ape]

it wasn't a personal attack JT. i was thinking more about the general climate on this forum regarding black bears. there are like five ongoing threads about fear of bears. i can't imagine how a complete newb would react to reading some of the stuff said here. like i said, #8 is a bear, but not all bears are the same. black bear behavior is far different from grizzy bear behavior. how many times in the last 100 years has a black bear attacked a human? how many deaths have resulted from a black bear?

and my question still stands. has anyone here ever had an encounter with a violent black bear? only one response seemed to to lean that way, but that poster admits that he is the one that got violent, not the bear. and what did the bear do? ran away. i wonder if bears have a bulletin board where they swap stories about nuisance humans?

[JustaTouron]

i. i was thinking more about the general climate on this forum regarding black bears. there are like five ongoing threads about fear of bears.

My biggest fear is number five on the list. Unleashed dogs -- I won't hesitate to use the bear spray on one of them if they get close enough. And I never trust an owner who claims their dog is friendly (words said to me right before the neighbor's dog bit me). I only trust the leash. Dog gets close enough I will defend myself exactly like I would a bear that got within 10 feet of me. Not a popular position on this board.

[fiddlehead]

LOL ah that made my day, really. I have a feeling it was monkey, not an ape, they are just uncouth and uncilvilized. And that wasn't an attack, that was a mating dance. Sadly, they never write, they never call.


I'm sticking to my question. Has anyone here, ever had a violent encounter with a black bear or boar along the Appalachian Trail corridor?

Anyone? Hello crickets. Goodbye horses.

It was a gibbon. Which is an ape.
By the way, I was false charged to within 8' by a black bear in SNP on my '95 thru-hike on the AT.
She came to about 8' away, stood up on hind legs and roared. 3 times. Scary.
I was alone.

[Hill Ape]

so far we've got one bluff charge, which is fairly normal for a black bear given the right circumstances, thats normal behavior for most mammals. and one human strikes black bear and bear flees in fear.

anyone been mauled? thats kind of what i'm getting at here.

[vamelungeon]

I don't believe I've ever met anyone in person who was actually mauled or attacked by anything in the southern Appalachians, discounting yellow jackets and other bugs.

[Pedaling Fool]

Note to self:

Next time I start a thread about hiking in the wilderness or re-introduction of predators to their native habitat I'll be sure and NOT include the word, Fear, oh my...:dance

[Sly]

It was a gibbon. Which is an ape.



Gibbons are apes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape) in the family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_(biology)) Hylobatidae / (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English)ˌ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)h (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)aɪ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)l (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ɵ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ˈ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)eɪ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)t (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ɨ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)d (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)iː (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbon

[Sly]

Note to self:

Next time I start a thread about hiking in the wilderness or re-introduction of predators to their native habitat I'll be sure and NOT include the word, Fear, oh my...:dance

I'm not going to read the entire thread, if it gets out of control just report the post,

[Pedaling Fool]

Posts are fine other than showing how fearful many are here. Not just on this thread but so many threads seem to always boil down to people's fears. That's why that brown blazer thread is still going on.

What can you do...

[Sarcasm the elf]

My biggest fear is number five on the list. Unleashed dogs -- I won't hesitate to use the bear spray on one of them if they get close enough. And I never trust an owner who claims their dog is friendly (words said to me right before the neighbor's dog bit me). I only trust the leash. Dog gets close enough I will defend myself exactly like I would a bear that got within 10 feet of me. Not a popular position on this board.

I really hope that either i'm reading your post wrong, or you are just venting on the internet. If you are approached by an aggressive dog that's one thing, but you dont have the right to bear spray someone's pet simply because it was close to you and you will find that neither the law nor other hikers will be on your side.

Hikers have many tens of thousands of encounters with unleashed dogs every year and they result in maybe a handful of bites. Alternately, going around using bear spray unnecessarily WILL get you arrested or assaulted, depending who you choose to start an unneeded altercation with. In other words, it's safe out there, but if you go looking for trouble you WILL to find it. (This is not s threat, just a reminder of reality)

[JustaTouron]

I really hope that either i'm reading your post wrong, or you are just venting on the internet. If you are approached by an aggressive dog that's one thing, but you dont have the right to bear spray someone's pet simply because it was close to you and you will find that neither the law nor other hikers will be on your side.

Hikers have many tens of thousands of encounters with unleashed dogs every year and they result in maybe a handful of bites. Alternately, going around using bear spray unnecessarily WILL get you arrested or assaulted, depending who you choose to start an unneeded altercation with. In other words, it's safe out there, but if you go looking for trouble you WILL to find it. (This is not s threat, just a reminder of reality)

Any dog that continues to come towards me and doesn't back off after I raise my hiking pole in an aggressive manner is an aggressive dog.

If there is an owner around I will tell that owner to leash their dog so we can go around each other. But I am not going to let a dog get close enough to bite me just b/c the owner claims their dog is friendly.

So far I have only had to spray one dog.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Any dog that continues to come towards me and doesn't back off after I raise my hiking pole in an aggressive manner is an aggressive dog.

If there is an owner around I will tell that owner to leash their dog so we can go around each other. But I am not going to let a dog get close enough to bite me just b/c the owner claims their dog is friendly.

So far I have only had to spray one dog.

Like is said before, that's a recipie for creating a problem where one doesnt exist and you need to seriously refhink your actions before you get yourself in trouble with the law or worse. Eventually you are going to try this on the wrong person and it's not going to be pretty. (Again, I'm saying this as advice, not a threat. I wish you the best but think you are setting yourself up for serious trouble.)

[Odd Man Out]

Note to self:

Next time I start a thread about hiking in the wilderness or re-introduction of predators to their native habitat I'll be sure and NOT include the word, Fear, oh my...:dance

Note in my post, the 1920 Yellowstone Guide did not focus on the danger/fear of predators, but rather on their "destruction of game animals". I speculate that this attitude originated in seeing predators as competition with hunters desire to hunt and carried though to wildlife management inside the parks even though there was no hunting there.

[WingedMonkey]

I dream of the day when I get to see a black bear and a panther fighting over a feral hog.

Of course that will only happen in Florida, because that's the only place east of the Mississippi that actually has breeding Mountain lions and bears in the same place.

I can only hope that I'll be so lucky.

[Wise Old Owl]

By the way, I was false charged to within 8' by a black bear in SNP on my '95 thru-hike on the AT.
She came to about 8' away, stood up on hind legs and roared. 3 times. Scary.
I was alone.

I too was false charged but not by a bear (so it doesn't count) By a 3 point (uh each side is that six?) buck on a back trail in Valley Forge Park. Stood my ground until it lost interest. Wasn't scared a bit...But I completely understand. (trampled by a horse) sucks.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv__-nyO1M

[Sarcasm the elf]

I too was false charged but not by a bear (so it doesn't count) By a 3 point (uh each side is that six?) buck on a back trail in Valley Forge Park. Stood my ground until it lost interest. Wasn't scared a bit...But I completely understand. (trampled by a horse) sucks.




Has happened to me as well, bucks get real brave during the height if the rut in the late fall. I've never felt genuinely threatened by them but they sure like to get ​into standoffs with hikers when it's mating season. Truth is I only truly fear them when I'm driving in a car :eek:

[Hill Ape]

when things go wrong, horribly wrong
23205

[Game Warden]

My employer, an agency which manages wildlife in my state, has never said there are no cougars here. We have said there is no PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of of a WILD cougar population.We have individuals who report sightings, but no sighting has yet been corroborated by PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. We have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of tame cougars released into the wild going back decades, but no PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of WILD cougars, to date.

I investigated about a dozen reports in my career, and I also teach crime scene investigation for my agency and other police departments. The witnesses I interviewed were sincere, but a strong personal belief is only an opinion without PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to support it.

[rocketsocks]

I dream of the day when I get to see a black bear and a panther fighting over a feral hog.

Of course that will only happen in Florida, because that's the only place east of the Mississippi that actually has breeding Mountain lions and bears in the same place.

I can only hope that I'll be so lucky.I see this all the time in the city.

[canoe]

You guys have missed a bigger preditor. BIGFOOT.... that is what all those strange noises are

[Hill Ape]

this thread reminds me of the cartoon movie open season, i keep expecting a dachshund to come running through

[Wise Old Owl]

My employer, an agency which manages wildlife in my state, has never said there are no cougars here. We have said there is no PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of of a WILD cougar population.We have individuals who report sightings, but no sighting has yet been corroborated by PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. We have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of tame cougars released into the wild going back decades, but no PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of WILD cougars, to date.

I investigated about a dozen reports in my career, and I also teach crime scene investigation for my agency and other police departments. The witnesses I interviewed were sincere, but a strong personal belief is only an opinion without PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to support it.

although its been quite a few years - there was physical evidence in White Clay of mutilated deer, paw prints and finally chickens when a person took an early morning photo and it ended up in the local paper. It was later spotted moving south over several state borders.

http://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/local/article_7ca658cf-6d4f-51bf-b591-e095b64e1c4d.html 2010

Locally, mountain lions have been spotted in the forests of the Poconos and a few years ago; a large cat, which some thought was a mountain lion was seen several times on South Mountain and in Lower Saucon Township. No proof of that cat’s existence was ever found. In 2010, in Lycoming County a trail camera took a picture of an adult cougar. In 2008, a small cougar was sighted in the woods near a townhouse development in Downingtown. The next day it was sighted again by some nearby construction workers who were able to contain it with some temporary fencing; however, the cougar reacted so violently, the construction workers fearing for their safety killed the animal. So for now, the PA Game Commission’s stance is that any sighting of a mountain lion is one that was “released,” or “escaped.” They were pets, introduced into the wild illegally. The Eastern Puma Research Network (EPRN) is not so sure. Too often, Pennsylvania deer hunters and others have spotted them. “Unfortunately, they seldom have a camera to record their unexpected sightings,” said John A. Lutz, executive director of the Eastern Puma Research Network. Hunters, hikers and other outdoors enthusiasts can help prove their existence by gathering valuable evidence and contacting EPRN.

[Drybones]

Any dog that continues to come towards me and doesn't back off after I raise my hiking pole in an aggressive manner is an aggressive dog.

If there is an owner around I will tell that owner to leash their dog so we can go around each other. But I am not going to let a dog get close enough to bite me just b/c the owner claims their dog is friendly.

So far I have only had to spray one dog.

Now this is the dumbest post I've seen on this site, you're the one doing the provoking, not the dog. You start swinging a hiking pole at a dog and he will do one of two things, run away or attack, and I expect the owner will do the same...as the proverb says, "he who looks for trouble will find it".

[Marta]

Note in my post, the 1920 Yellowstone Guide did not focus on the danger/fear of predators, but rather on their "destruction of game animals". I speculate that this attitude originated in seeing predators as competition with hunters desire to hunt and carried though to wildlife management inside the parks even though there was no hunting there.

I went to an interesting presentation on predators in Glacier NP last weekend. The ranger brought up the Park Service's history of suppressing predators, and the bad effects that had on the ecosystem. Wolves, in particular, are a keystone species because of their ability to keep the population of large herbivores in check.

Rocky Mountain NP, for example, has no wolves today, and has a huge overpopulation of elk and deer. So many that they eat all the saplings to the point that they've starved out 90% of the beaver population. Rather than try to introduce a wolf population artificially, though, the Park is waiting for wolves to reintroduce themselves, either grey wolves coming down from the north, or Mexican wolves coming up from the south.

Fortunately for GNP, it is well surrounded by good wilderness corridors for the reintroduction of predatory species. GNP today has an almost complete range of animals living here. The two species still missing are bison and caribou. There are no plans to introduce them artificially.

[Pedaling Fool]

I didn't mean to cast such a wide net, this frustration of mine with reading all the fearful posts/threads far precedes this thread. I'm done with it. BTW, I did find your 1920 Yellowstone Guide very interesting; it's always fun looking back.

[jeffmeh]

Regarding the general human condition to harbor irrational fears:

23230

[Hill Ape]

if two cats escape captivity, and then breed, are their kittens wild? if cats escape, and do the same, and then their kittens grow to maturity and breed, are they wild? hmmm

i say lets just kill everything larger than mouse, hell, kill the mice too. how dare an animal live outside of a cage. we're there to hike, and commune with nature, and have a wilderness experience. we don't need no stinking animal interfering with that.

ah sarcasm, hello old friend

[JustaTouron]

Regarding the general human condition to harbor irrational fears:

23230


Hey, on the plus side: hikers really get to minimize the the top on that list. Home appliances and bathing.

[Sarcasm the elf]

ah sarcasm, hello old friend

Um...Hi.

:rolleyes:

[Hill Ape]

lol, wasn't thinking about you, elf, but hi anyway! how ya been?

justa, so we're down to our biggest fears on the trail, terrorists and deer.

[Game Warden]

Lutz and his ilk are kooks.