fall start for sobo?

[BadLatitude]

It seems like there isnt much fall start south bound info. I guess kind of a snow bird hike. Why is that? It interests me because.... being hot and getting eaten alive kinda sucks. Any input is more than welcome.

[Malto]

There are always a few either speedy late starts or slow pokers that meander their way through the winter down south. I ran into a few of those hiking in VA this winter. No reason it can't be done, the only watch out is getting out of NH before a major storms socks the mountains in.

[moldy]

You need to start early enough to get through New Hampshire before deep snows hit. It's about 445 miles which takes about 6 weeks if you work at it. So if you start 1 September you should make it to Vermont be 15 October. Even with a 1 September start you will need good luck with the weather. If you have bad luck then it's questionable if you will be able to continue.

[Ironbelly]

Why Is it that a snowstorm prevents you from hiking? I hiked for 3 months on the AT in winter. Dec-feb 2001. Sure you need a few more supplies and know how, but it's still doable. Biggest concerns would be having a traction aid of some sort and being able to navigate in a white out .

[Papa D]

You can do it - - weather should cooperate nicely especially if you're an experienced winter camper - you'll hit some December snow for sure but it's a beautiful time to hike. I hiked your state in March of 2011 and rarely took a step out of snow - did St. John's ledges iced over -- you can handle my state in Dec. for sure! Hit me up if you go - - fall is my favorite time - - I pretty much keep my trail legs and can hold down 20s pretty much anywhere on the trail. FYI, you do need to be clear of Maine and most of NH by the end of September so get your hike on.

[Slo-go'en]

Mostly because being out in the cold 24/7 and having to deal with frozen stuff all the time kinda sucks a lot more then being hot and eaten by bugs.

Sure it's all fun and games until you loose a finger or toe to frostbite. Hey, I love the woods in winter or I wouldn't live in Northen NH. But try to through hike in it? Very, very few are that hardy.

[BadLatitude]

I grew up in the woods. Im a trapper by trade and the coldest ive slept in is -14. How bad can sept/oct really be? Wool saves lives imho.

[Hill Ape]

you're a trapper? seriously? i thought that went out a hundred years ago. biggest argument against winter hiking, is the skill level required. its not something a newb should just jump right into. more gear, more expense, more risk, more skill. thats alot of mores

[snowblind]

First snow I got hit with last year on my SOBO, was half way through Vermont, mid October. My first legitimately cold night on trail. Snowed half a dozen more times by the time I got to Harpers Ferry.

Check the Farmers Almanac to see what it says for this years(next years?) winter. Or NOAA long-term forecasting. It's entirely possible you could be snow-shoeing 2 months into your SOBO, depending on when you start. And snow-shoeing for 3 to 4 more, depending on speed.

[BadLatitude]

you're a trapper? seriously? i thought that went out a hundred years ago. biggest argument against winter hiking, is the skill level required. its not something a newb should just jump right into. more gear, more expense, more risk, more skill. thats alot of mores
My biggest concern is iced up rock. In sept oct im hoping that wount be an issue. And yes even though i live in greenwich. I am indeed a full time trapper. In summwr i literally keep my ac on 65 in boxers and a t shirt. Whats bad sept oct weather up north? 30s?

[fiddlehead]

I grew up in the woods. Im a trapper by trade and the coldest ive slept in is -14. How bad can sept/oct really be? Wool saves lives imho.
I wish you wouldn't have said that.
I'm always behind an endeavor to winter hike the AT IF the person is experienced.
There is a big difference between winter camping in below zero temps wearing lots of wool, and thru-hiking the AT in winter.
Please tell me that you know about how important keeping weight down is and how long the nights will be and how you've done continuous 15 mile days in snowshoes before.
And have hiked the whites.
I'll enclose a picture from our 2001/2002 winter hike of the AT, taken in early Nov in the whites.23207


Here's another one from Moosilauke. 23208

Certainly not saying it can't be done.
Just know what you are getting into.
Have fun!

[BadLatitude]

you're a trapper? seriously? i thought that went out a hundred years ago. biggest argument against winter hiking, is the skill level required. its not something a newb should just jump right into. more gear, more expense, more risk, more skill. thats alot of mores
My biggest concern is iced up rock. In sept oct im hoping that wount be an issue. And yes even though i live in greenwich. I am indeed a full time trapper. In summwr i literally keep my ac on 65 in boxers and a t shirt. Whats bad sept oct weather up north? 30s?

[BadLatitude]

Plus i can dump gear in ct/ny and in Va.

[BadLatitude]

you're a trapper? seriously? i thought that went out a hundred years ago. biggest argument against winter hiking, is the skill level required. its not something a newb should just jump right into. more gear, more expense, more risk, more skill. thats alot of mores
My biggest concern is iced up rock. In sept oct im hoping that wount be an issue. And yes even though i live in greenwich. I am indeed a full time trapper. In summwr i literally keep my ac on 65 in boxers and a t shirt. Whats bad sept oct weather up north? 30s?

[BadLatitude]

Excuse the last post my phone evidently decided to have a mind of its own and repost for no reason.

[Slo-go'en]

How bad can it be? Pretty frigg'en nasty bad. September/early October weather is fine and the best time of year to hike IMOHO. It's after that is when things start to get "interesting" if your not well into Vermont by then.

It's when the temps are in the low 30's and it's raining is when it's the most misserable and dangerous. Then a cold front comes and pushes out the rain, but temps drop and everything freezes solid. Then it really gets fun. Yes, ice is the biggest problem early on.

[Feral Bill]

[QUOTE=. Biggest concerns would be having a traction aid of some sort and being able to navigate in a white out .[/QUOTE] There is no being able to navigate in a whiteout. Not a real one, as in the Whites. That said, I'm considering a late SOBO as well.

[Feral Bill]

In addition, on the projected hike, the slower you go after clearing northern New England, the better your weather when you eventually reach the southern high mountains.

[Slo-go'en]

In addition, on the projected hike, the slower you go after clearing northern New England, the better your weather when you eventually reach the southern high mountains.

It's no picnic in the mid alantic states during January and Febuary either. The jet stream often directs serious snow storms which miss New England completely but pound PA/NJ/NY. And a lot of times its that wet, sticky stuff which is real nasty to deal with. Then turns into 6-12" of slush to try and plow through.

[BadLatitude]

I think im going to stick to my original plan and do something local like CT to Killington VT and maybe back again and plan for next year. No reason to play Russian roulette. I forgot about early season PA snow storms. Been in one of them before during bow season. Wasn't all that enjoyable. So wet and heavy.

[JustaTouron]

I think im going to stick to my original plan and do something local like CT to Killington VT and maybe back again and plan for next year. No reason to play Russian roulette. I forgot about early season PA snow storms. Been in one of them before during bow season. Wasn't all that enjoyable. So wet and heavy.

The other option if you just care more about hiking than doing a "thruhike" is just start your hike and play it by ear. If there is too much snow in NH/VT, take a bus to Mass. Maybe do a flipflop start in ME in Sept, then the first week of Nov take the bus to Springer. There is bound to be some section of the trail that is passable, if you are prepared for normal winter camping.

[BadLatitude]

Ya know what. You are right Just. It seems like this thread turned into the worst possible case scenario on the planet will happen if I go into the woods without starting in GA in spring. I think im going to still shoot for fall. Worst case ill bounce or lay up during weather. Gonna do a shake down soon. Will report back.

[Slo-go'en]

What I would do is start SOBO ASAP and continue south until about Thanksgiving, then skip down to SW Virginia and contiue on from there. You'd be mostly done before the really bad weather catches up in late Jan/Feb. Go back and finish the middle part someday. I'd also invest in some really good rain gear, there's a very good chance it will be used a lot.

[hobbs]

Your gonna want to watch Virgina's weather also.They had alot of water this past summer, theres no tellin what the winter will bring..

[The Solemates]

this guy is clueless. i dont care if he does claim to be a trapper. so do terminix pest control employees.

[BadLatitude]

Wow that's pretty rude coming from someone who doesn't know anything about me. I am indeed a trapper. NOT a bug spraying tard in a van. Why is it you feel I'm clueless? Is it because I asked a simple question? Do I require a resume to ask a question on this forum in your mighty presence? I've backpacked sections of the trail in years past. I'm just getting back into backpacking and trying to obtain info. I'm sorry I'm not an elite backpacker such as yourself. I surely should just crawl in a hole and not try to achieve a dream I've had since I was a kid. I've spent the time upgrading my gear from the last time I did CT through saves ravine and want more.

[Slo-go'en]

Going from casual backpacking years ago to winter thru-hiker is quite a leap. Yes, a resume is handy so we can judge your exeriance and taylor the responce. Without that info and based on your questions, we can only assume limited experiance.

Does trapping give you the skill set needed to pull off a winter thru-hike? I don't know, maybe. BTW, what and where do you trap and how long do you stay out in the woods doing that? Or do you trap pests like skunks and groundhogs in peoples back yards?

[Symba]

I have a friend who is a trapper. It takes knowledge and expertise. He, and his father, do this as a family trade. They sell the pelts in NJ at the Sussex County Farm and horse show arena not far from the AT (Branchville, NJ/Rt 206). I live just over the boarder in PA. I would only worry about winter weather in new England areas. I'm leaving for a two month hike soon. I would love to go SOBO starting soon (two weeks) if your interested. I thru hiked in 2000, sectioned in 2013, and now would like to go from Maine to Mass or visa versa. I originally intended to follow Autumn, but don't want to get stuck in under 30 degree weather. I'm thinking of packing my Patagonia pull over puffball just in case, good as a pillow too. I'm doing mail drops and intend on stopping in a tow every five to seven days. If you guys are interested give me a call 570-832-2157. I am seriously leaving soon. I can rent a car and drive it to Bangor Maine if you set up our shuttle to the trail. I'm easy going. I NEED to be in nature on the AT again. Let me know. After research it looks like I may not have to worry at all about cold weather if I leave in two weeks or even less. I'm doing a shakedown hike tomorrow on the AT from the buttermilk, falls side trail to the AT, then ridge walk to crater lake; the back. The hill climb is 2 miles to the AT; kinda hard but will definetly help weed out issues. ~ryan (aka: symba).

[Symba]

I meant about the weather up north. there WILL be ice overs after November in the middle states that I have come across. *town, not TOW. ffs. darn fingers go numb typing.

[BadLatitude]

I don't know if this is the norm for this forum but being personally attacked the opposite of what I expected here. Symba. If you want to get some trips going. Be it short over nights or more. I would like that very much. I will gladly Pm you my personal contact info.

[Malto]

I don't know if this is the norm for this forum but being personally attacked the opposite of what I expected here. Symba. If you want to get some trips going. Be it short over nights or more. I would like that very much. I will gladly Pm you my personal contact info.

This tends to be a bit harsher than some other forums, I know I am a bit more direct. One reason that you may have been a target is that there have been scores of folks that come on and say "I have no experience, I'm going to do a winter hike." There was a classic case of this with a hiker named Rifle late last year. So, while you may or may not fall into that category there tends to be triggers that tell folks "here we go again." Take the helpful advise and ignore the crap.

I did hundreds of the AT this last winter in Va and NC. Yes there was snow and one section a lot of ice. But I have a lot of experience with snow and it was some of the best hiking that I have had on the AT. Be prepared and flexible in your schedule and you can wait out some of the worst weather and let snow consolidate and continue on. There are few areas south of NY that I would worry me in all but the worst weather.

good luck on your trip, regardless of where you head.

[stranger]

The cold changes everything, everything

- water freezes overnight (sometimes during the day)
- tent poles become unbearable to hold after 30-40 seconds
- wind cuts through you
- need to drink more
- need to eat more
- need a stove (melting snow for water)
- need much more stove fuel
- frozen shoes in the morning
- short daylight
- long nights
- need more insulation from the ground when sleeping
- might need a VPL
- post holing or snowshoes makes travel difficult and slow
- but yes, no bugs!

I used to love winter backpacking, it's amazing, but its a different game completely IMO

Winter camping is often very time consuming, and hiking is slower....therefore it doesn't line up to be a good time to hike long distances in my experience, but leaving Katahdin 1 August would probably be a awesome hike, still chilly without the harsh stuff (in all likelihood). Leaving Katahdin in early Sept? Things will get interesting

[Symba]

I looked at weather reports and such, if one was to leave, say, August 25 from Maine and SOBO generally, on average, would it go below 50 until Oct? Higher elevations predict this, but i'm wondering if winter gear is not needed until Oct. 1st in New England? When I NOBOed in 2000 I did need winter gear (no snow that stuck more than two days, mainly dustings) but only until April 1st. I have memory block, major, what is up in New England. I don't generally section hike north of NY. Getting away soon. I' looking forward to my next hike.

[JustaTouron]

I looked at weather reports and such, if one was to leave, say, August 25 from Maine and SOBO generally, on average, would it go below 50 until Oct? Higher elevations predict this, but i'm wondering if winter gear is not needed until Oct. 1st in New England? When I NOBOed in 2000 I did need winter gear (no snow that stuck more than two days, mainly dustings) but only until April 1st. I have memory block, major, what is up in New England. I don't generally section hike north of NY. Getting away soon. I' looking forward to my next hike.


In the Whites you would not sure about before that.

[Snowleopard]

... if one was to leave, say, August 25 from Maine and SOBO generally, on average, would it go below 50 until Oct?
Yes, it's already been below 50F here in north central Mass this month. By Oct.1, occasional night temps below freezing are likely in the Mass Berkshires and colder in VT, NH, ME.

Higher elevations predict this, but i'm wondering if winter gear is not needed until Oct. 1st in New England?
Oct. 1 is usually not what I would call winter conditions, except sometimes in the mountains of NH and ME. You'd normally be fine with a 20F sleeping bag and some warm clothes. By late Oct. in the Whites conditions could get much more severe. For Mt. Washington, temps are:
Sept: average low = 36, record low = 9
Oct.: average low = 24, record low = -5
By the end of Oct. there could be lots of snow if it's a bad year. Two years ago, most of southern New England got 2' to 3' of snow on halloween.
You can check the Mt. Wash. weather archives for weather history on specifice dates at http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/summit.php

Symba and BadLatitude, as long as you're willing to change plans if the weather forecast turns bad you're probably OK with normal 3 season gear up to mid October in a normal year. Just be aware that the northern mountains can be very dangerous if you misjudge the weather, especially above tree line. In a bad year you might need to skip to southern VT or Mass early.

[Slo-go'en]

It hasn't gotten much above 50 on Mt Washington all summer if that is any indication. We typically have a cold snap which lasts a few days at the end of September or early October which can bring the first snow. As October progresses, the chances of a more significant snow storm and consistant below freezing temps increases. Sunny days will be pleasent and very nippy at night. Stormy days will be down right unpleasent.

By early November, all bets are off. By Thanksgiving, there is typically significant snow and ice at higher elevations. We also seem to always get a nasty, cold rain storm over Thanksgiving weekend, give or take a few days.

Of course, every year is different in the exact timing. In general, it seems that fall lingers longer then it used to with the brunt of winter being short but intense. Febuary and March have been the worse in recent years. I'm hoping for a reasonably mild winter temp wise with lots of snow :)

[1peanut]

Fall is a awesome time to hike. Just keep your phone handy and keep a eye on the weather. You can always get off the trail if you need to. :)

[The Solemates]

Sorry if I was rude, but making statements like the ones noted below make it obvious that you have not spent winter nights in the New England mountains. I dont claim to be elite. But continually stating it cannot be that bad when others have warned you is foolish, and can get yourself killed. It can be fun, if you are prepared. I would suggest you head out in a blizzard for a weekend hike this coming winter, and then come back and report if you think it wasnt all that bad. You will encounter many similar storms with a winter sobo thru hike starting in sept/oct, which is what was inferred were your plans in your first post ("snowbird hike").


I grew up in the woods. Im a trapper by trade and the coldest ive slept in is -14. How bad can sept/oct really be? Wool saves lives imho.

Many people grow up in the woods but have no experience in this type of endeavor. Spending a day trapping in -14 degree weather is different from being in -14 degree weather for 3 months. Sept/Oct can be bad. Not always, but certainly has the potential to be. Up to 3 feet of snow in sept/oct may not be bad at all if you are used to it. The problem may not be sept/oct, but nov/dec, which would also be encountered during a sobo hike, with drifts over your head. And go use wool for days on end in 6 foot drifts and see if it saves your life.



My biggest concern is iced up rock. In sept oct im hoping that wount be an issue. And yes even though i live in greenwich. I am indeed a full time trapper. In summwr i literally keep my ac on 65 in boxers and a t shirt. Whats bad sept oct weather up north? 30s?

Iced up rock will be the least of your concerns. You will be elated when you reach an iced up, windswept, treeless summit and not have to deal with the snow. Bad weather up north can be bad. Real bad.




I think im going to stick to my original plan and do something local like CT to Killington VT and maybe back again and plan for next year. No reason to play Russian roulette. I forgot about early season PA snow storms. Been in one of them before during bow season. Wasn't all that enjoyable. So wet and heavy.

You forgot ? Again, doesnt sound like someone who should be saying 'it cant be that bad' or who has done any research.



Ya know what. You are right Just. It seems like this thread turned into the worst possible case scenario on the planet will happen if I go into the woods without starting in GA in spring. I think im going to still shoot for fall. Worst case ill bounce or lay up during weather. Gonna do a shake down soon. Will report back.

You are right that people generally make a big deal out of nothing and underestimate others. It is just that the trail can turn into the worst possible case scenario real quick in the New England mountains in the winter. Go look at the average temperatures for the time you will be traveling through the Whites. Look up Mount Washington weather. 40+ inches of new snow, 15 degree highs, 0 degree lows, 40 + mph winds for the time of year you would be going through there. that dips down past -30 degrees with the windchill. still think it couldnt be that bad?