View Full Version : What is your ratio of hiking to trail maintenance?
JustaTouron
08-14-2013, 12:42
Typically for every eight to twelve weekends I spend hiking, I spend one day doing some sort of volunteer trail maintenance. (That doesn't include hiking out other people's trash I see when hiking, that I do almost every time I hike)
I know some people who spend more time doing trail maintenance then hiking. And I know other hikers who do zero trail maintenance.
What do you think is a good ratio? So that everyone shares in the burden and we get to have the trails we love.
How much trail maintenance does a thru-hiker owe the trail?
coach lou
08-14-2013, 13:09
WB is not a 'Thru' exclusive site, so this question should be addressed to ALL of us. In '13' I've only spent 22 days on the trail. 1 of those days was spent doing trail work. Clearly not enough, I will get out again....but when?:-?:sun
JustaTouron
08-14-2013, 13:18
WB is not a 'Thru' exclusive site, so this question should be addressed to ALL of us. In '13' I've only spent 22 days on the trail. 1 of those days was spent doing trail work. Clearly not enough, I will get out again....but when?:-?:sun
Thanks for your response.
I agree, it is addressed to all and whiteblaze is not thru exclusive.
I thought I had multiple questions in there, but I guess it wasn't clear.
1) what is your hiking to maintenance ratio.
2) what do you think is a good ratio
3) how much does a thru hiker owe the trail
BTW -- I don't think one needs to necessarily do trail maintenance on each trail they hike. If you do trail maintenance on the PCT 'cause you live in CA, but hiked the AT, that balances out.
It would be nice if every thru-hiker got on one of the ATC trail crews (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/trail-crews) for at least a week. That's what I did! :D
Slo-go'en
08-14-2013, 13:40
Hikers that follow behind me rarely find sticks or loose branches in the trail as I flick them to the side with my poles. Keeping sticks off the trail is a never ending job.
They will also rarely find a branch sticking out into the trail which could poke thier eye out. If my face brushes up against something, I stop and get rid of it. I may start to carry a small pair of prunning shears when I hike, it would make minor brushing jobs go quicker.
Try to get in 5 days of trail work a year (a work week basically). Many times, it is local open space projects. Could always do more, though.
Jack Tarlin
08-14-2013, 15:39
Also, hikers need to do the right thing when they encounter maintainers working on the Trail. A good friend of mine who has maintained in Tennessee for years told me that many hikers walk right by trail workers without so much as a "Hello!", never mind a "Thank you!" or stopping for a few minutes to talk. And the number who ask the workers if they need help with anything or an extra set of hands for a little while is such a tiny fraction of hikers so as to be non-existent. So please, if you see men and women out digging, building walls or staircases, moving logs or boulders.......if you're in too much of a hurry to offer them a hand, at least offer a smile or a word of thanks. Your trip and your Trail would not exist without them.
Pedaling Fool
08-14-2013, 16:45
I wonder how you would compute this guy's ratio. I remember seeing him in 2006, kind of curious to see exactly what the ATC did with his data.
BTW, he did get Volunteer of the Month
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/get-involved/volunteer/volunteer-of-the-month/2013/07/30/july-2013---tip-ray?utm_source=SORO+Newsletter&utm_campaign=a40005d3d3-SORO_ENewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c591928094-a40005d3d3-234936393
Meriadoc
08-14-2013, 19:18
Also, hikers need to do the right thing when they encounter maintainers working on the Trail. A good friend of mine who has maintained in Tennessee for years told me that many hikers walk right by trail workers without so much as a "Hello!", never mind a "Thank you!" or stopping for a few minutes to talk. And the number who ask the workers if they need help with anything or an extra set of hands for a little while is such a tiny fraction of hikers so as to be non-existent. So please, if you see men and women out digging, building walls or staircases, moving logs or boulders.......if you're in too much of a hurry to offer them a hand, at least offer a smile or a word of thanks. Your trip and your Trail would not exist without them.
Thank them but don't be too profuse about it! It becomes embarrassing for the ones doing the trail work. At least it does for me.
(1) Current year ~10-15 days hiking and 30 mornings for 10-15 days of maintenance. I've been lucky to have extra time this year.
All time: I'm way behind on maintenance.
(2) A good ratio for me is working at least a few days per year at a minimum. That minimum should be raised if there are any trail issues that need work.
(3) Goodness. That's hard to say. A lifetime of good trail stewardship and outreach with trail work a few times per year, every year.
I bet this thread doesn't go 10 pages with everyone stating ALL THE TIME they devote back to the trail or hiking!
The Cleaner
08-14-2013, 20:01
I bet this thread doesn't go 10 pages with everyone stating ALL THE TIME they devote back to the trail or hiking! Justa Touron brought up a good point.If all hikers would simply just clean-up after themselves and stick to LNT guidelines this would help a lot.Seems more and more these days some hikers still leave unneeded clothes,gear and trash at shelters.Others abuse facilities with graffiti and someone had burned the wooden trail markers on Max Patch.IMO just a lot of folks with an entitlement problem.( I hiked all the way up here and I can do what I want,screw everyone coming behind me).I'm still finding trash bags left on the bear cables,hikers who leave half empty fuel canisters and food at shelters because it's their last day and someone will use it(too lazy to carry their stuff the final miles of a few days hiking) I made 4 trips packing a chainsaw to cut firewood for hikers hiking in the late spring snows at 2 shelters.Most of them were very thankful but I did meet a few so concerned with trying to hike 20-30 miles just to get to a town or hostel they didn't care who I was. Well I've ranted enough and maybe others can add to this thread with positive ideas....
It would be awesome sitting at a road crossing cooking some burgers with ice cold soda and when a bunch of thru-hikers approached say, "sorry for work crew and trail maintainers only." :p
coach lou
08-14-2013, 21:15
Also, hikers need to do the right thing when they encounter maintainers working on the Trail. A good friend of mine who has maintained in Tennessee for years told me that many hikers walk right by trail workers without so much as a "Hello!", never mind a "Thank you!" or stopping for a few minutes to talk. And the number who ask the workers if they need help with anything or an extra set of hands for a little while is such a tiny fraction of hikers so as to be non-existent. So please, if you see men and women out digging, building walls or staircases, moving logs or boulders.......if you're in too much of a hurry to offer them a hand, at least offer a smile or a word of thanks. Your trip and your Trail would not exist without them.
Jack, I must say that that was not my experience at all, back in June. Now I only worked that one day, maybe 5 hours on 3 miles of trail, but every single person that past us thanks us for our work, most of the thrus said they would make some plan to do some work in the future.
I like Slys idea. I would also think that those folks that were silent, were so out of embarassment.
^^^^^^, the weeks work, but the cross road cookout is cool to.:D
The Cleaner
08-14-2013, 22:04
It seems that HYOH is all most want to hear.How about HOOH (Help Out Other Hikers).Not everyone can do trail work,but little things like pick up some extra litter,move a few limbs off the trail or leave a little firewood for others on a cold & wet day.This spring's Norovirus outbreak could be even worst next spring if it does appear. Seems like more hikers seem to be more concerned with hiking more miles with less gear.The AT is a great experience, let's try to keep it that way so that other generations can enjoy it too...:)
HikerMom58
08-14-2013, 22:10
It seems that HYOH is all most want to hear.How about HOOH (Help Out Other Hikers).Not everyone can do trail work,but little things like pick up some extra litter,move a few limbs off the trail or leave a little firewood for others on a cold & wet day.This spring's Norovirus outbreak could be even worst next spring if it does appear. Seems like more hikers seem to be more concerned with hiking more miles with less gear.The AT is a great experience, let's try to keep it that way so that other generations can enjoy it too...:)
Awesome Post!! I agree!! :)
MuddyWaters
08-14-2013, 22:17
I always thank trail maintainers, but I have been almost ignored by them too while thanking them before.
Perhaps they were just tired, or perhaps after cleaning trash out a privy, their perception of hikers was temporarily affected.
Nice posts JT and The Cleaner. I decided om making an impromptu stop for a day in NJ in 06 during my AT thru to help build a log bridge over a small muddy stream on the AT. I make it my duty to show appreciation and respect to the maintenance croos and individuals who make it possible for me to continue doing one of the things I love - hiking. I donate about 7 days per yr doing trail work, usually in Hawaii and NJ/NY. Sometimes, I just go out impromptu style by myself and clean up hiking areas.
As I'm typing this and looking down at my scratched and chigger bitten legs I'm really feeling the urge to carry small bypass hand pruners on my next hike to cut some of the overgrowth along trails especially brambles and thorny branches. I get real satisfaction knowing that I'm giving back to a community that has been so good to me and countless others. This attitude has taken my hiking, and life, to a greater level!
Meriadoc
08-15-2013, 07:58
It would be awesome sitting at a road crossing cooking some burgers with ice cold soda and when a bunch of thru-hikers approached say, "sorry for work crew and trail maintainers only." :p
Haha. Especially in Maine. Those work crews do amazing work in an awesomely rugged area.
I'm out at least three times a year, the past three years for volunteer maintenance on a 2.2 mile section. The amount of time each visit varies greatly. Never thru'ed but hike it and other area trails weekly. A GREAT long weekend on the LT in the Mad River area last weekend!
As others have said, take care of it as you go. That wrapper or empty bottle is a lot lighter now than when it was carried in. I like the idea of leave it better than you found it. But the more I am out there the more the AT looks like a pseudo socialism, some give, some give and take, some just take.
Tipi Walter
08-15-2013, 08:40
Currently I'm of the opinion that all backpackers should carry a pair of hand pruners and clip out the trail as they hike. Why not?
Beyond this, I have many trails I backpack which are my favorites and they never seem to get maintained so occasionally when I pull a normal backpacking trip I will bring pruners and a Corona folding saw and do extensive trailwork myself. The hardest part is putting on the pack 20 or so times a day while I range up the trail to work and then return back to the pack.
On a recent 18 day trip into the Slickrock wilderness I spent 7 of those days doing trailwork on the the Nutbuster of the Upper Slickrock Creek trail. See trip report---
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Tipi-Walter-Upper-Slickrock/29799851_cpDPQR#!i=2554284982&k=q6Tp89X
And then on this next trip I did many days of trailwork on most of the lower portion of Slickrock Creek and all of the Cold Spring Gap trail #149 in the Citico wilderness. See---
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Tipi-Walter-Slickrock/30534477_3Rrg5Z#!i=2634142244&k=GQCMVDd
I just returned from a 16 days trip where I spent 6 days on a 6 mile trail and completely cleared it---the North Fork Creek trail in the Citico.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Tipi-Walter-Upper-Slickrock/i-6M43BP7/0/L/TRIP%20145%20057-L.jpg
JustaTouron
08-15-2013, 10:00
It would be awesome sitting at a road crossing cooking some burgers with ice cold soda and when a bunch of thru-hikers approached say, "sorry for work crew and trail maintainers only." :p
Then you would like this.
My brother in law was doing some trail work on the AT a few years back with his local hiking club. A a couple of long distance hikers past thru w/o saying anything.
Then one thru hiker stopped and not only did he thanked them he asked if they wanted some help. They said yes and he spent about an hour helping them finish installing some steps.
While that hiker is helping out, one of his buddies walks by without acknowledging the trailworkers or even his friend, when his friend called out to him.
When they're done, the guy running the work crew told the hiker that if he is in a hurry to get to that nights campsite not to feel obligated, but there is hot dogs and hamburgers waiting for the work crew down at the parking
lot. And he was free to join them.
The hikers said he would love the food, but didn't know if it was right taking food meant for others being he had only been helping for a short while, the crew leaders responded, "nonsense, we don't get hikers who stop and help that often, actually I think you are the first plus Betty never brings just enough, we always have twice as food than we can possible eat "
While they were eating one person mentions to the hiker that they thought his buddy was quite rude, and suggested he say something, to his buddy next time he sees him. The hiker responds by asking a question, "he came by us only about 10 mins before we quit for lunch, had he stopped and helped for those ten mins, would he have been invited to lunch too?" The group leader responded, "yeah, of course, you see how much food we got." The hiker responded as he picked up his fifth hamburger, "oh, then don't worry, next time I see him and tell him about lunch, he is going to seriously regret not stopping to help. Odds is that will be tonight, I'll be sure to tell him all about lunch while he is cooking up his ramon noodles."
Tom Murphy
08-15-2013, 10:02
I go out for two long weekends a year. My adopted trail is Lincoln Brook trail from 13 Falls to the Owl Heads slide. If you are on the Franconia Ridge it is down in the drainage to the east of you.
I think the correct balance is different for each person and likely varies over time.
I'm one of those people who currently do a lot more trail maintenance than hiking. Plus most of my trail work is on "other trails" not the A.T. Honestly I would like to try to get more hiking in but I'd also like to get more trail work in. Family is not into backpacking, or even much day hiking anymore. I suppose there's a bit less guilt going off by myself if it's for trail work.
Trail work seems best done for its own reward. I've almost never encountered other hikers while doing work. Even my A.T. section is far back enough in that it's only the more determined day hiker that gets to it.
JustaTouron
08-15-2013, 11:38
I think the correct balance is different for each person and likely varies over time.
Absolutely. I for one, would be bored to tears "owning" section of trail and going out solo to work on it. Although I can see why someone could take pride in owning a portion of a trail and taking pride in its up keep.
My trail maintenance as always been one of those a whole group of us working together for 4-5 hours followed by lunch. Never worked on the same stretch of trail twice.
LOL... good story Justatouron.
I don't think I've helped like that when hiking but I'll always stop, chat and thank trail workers. When I remember I'll ask for a photo.
garlic08
08-15-2013, 13:26
Build one foot for every mile walked. I owe a couple of miles and I'm working on that now.
Tip Walter, those are exactly the trails and areas I was talking about. Were on the same page. Was up at Whigg's Meadow on the BMT with three campers who told me I had just missed you in Slickrock/Citco/Kilmer
No doubt, it's wonderful to feel appreciated and to show you appreciate the work of others but I wouldn't expect to always be recognized for what little trail work I do. IMO, it's really not why trail maintainers are doing what they are doing.
With due respect, I wouldn't read too much into these types of ratios. However, I absolutely do think(KNOW) more people, especially members of the hiking community(that means YOU if you hike!), can and should be giving back to a greater extent to their activity/sport - hiking!
I go out for two long weekends a year. My adopted trail is Lincoln Brook trail from 13 Falls to the Owl Heads slide. If you are on the Franconia Ridge it is down in the drainage to the east of you.
I hiked it when doing the Pemi Loop last year. Thanks! The Caretaker at 13 Falls said he was told not to do any maintenance on that trail.
JustaTouron
08-15-2013, 14:13
LOL... good story Justatouron.
I don't think I've helped like that when hiking but I'll always stop, chat and thank trail workers. When I remember I'll ask for a photo.
I got to think stopping and helping is pretty rare. But my local hiking club has picked up quite a few new members when hikers walking by stop and ask what we are doing.
My experience most people have stopped, often its to ask what we are doing and why as it is their first time seeing trail maintenance. My interaction has only been with day hikers and a couple of weekenders, because of the trails I worked on.
Only had one negative experience. It was with two female dayhikers. And the comments probably top some of those of the most entitled thruhiker.
We had a huge crew (~30) out doing several project all along the trail and our presence no doubt impeded the flow of hiking.
While waiting to get by as we installed some water bars, one grumbled to the other, "do they really need to do this stuff on the weekends, when people are out hiking, couldn't they do it during the week?" The other responded, "probably do it this way to get time and half." One of the women with our group, gave them the riot act. They apologized and left.
I have done three thru-hikes,and i have done several sections, and i haven't done any trail maintenance I don't think a thru-hiker needs to do trail maintenance in order to give back to the trail, It's up to the person, some do and some don't.
Tipi Walter
08-15-2013, 14:46
Tip Walter, those are exactly the trails and areas I was talking about. Were on the same page. Was up at Whigg's Meadow on the BMT with three campers who told me I had just missed you in Slickrock/Citco/Kilmer
It's neat you ran into the group on the Whigg as here's a pic of the group when they dayhiked to the Bob. Bob Butterfield is on the right.
http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/3/a/9/2053033/TRIP-147-264.jpg
I am fortunate in that I live close to the AT and oversee a campsite on the trail. I average 2 trips a week to the site knowing that there will be some trash in the fire rings, new fire rings to dismantle, and huge tree limbs laying across the rings that the inexperienced hikers thought would eventually burn in two. I don't see work trips to the campsite as truly work. I get great satisfaction in knowing that I am keeping this area clean and enjoyable for folks who love the trail as much as I do.
As far as how much does a thru-hiker owe: if he/she truly loves the trail, hiking and trail maintenance is a lifestyle, not just a one time, long hike. A thru-hiker who continues to section hike or even thru-hike years after their initial thru-hike would be more likely to be active in trail maintenance than a thru-hiker who did a one time hike and then gave up hiking altogether.
It's a lifestyle. One who loves the trail is just as happy maintaining it as they are hiking it.
Seatbelt
08-15-2013, 16:20
I think the correct balance is different for each person and likely varies over time.
I'm one of those people who currently do a lot more trail maintenance than hiking. Plus most of my trail work is on "other trails" not the A.T. Honestly I would like to try to get more hiking in but I'd also like to get more trail work in. Family is not into backpacking, or even much day hiking anymore. I suppose there's a bit less guilt going off by myself if it's for trail work.
Trail work seems best done for its own reward. I've almost never encountered other hikers while doing work. Even my A.T. section is far back enough in that it's only the more determined day hiker that gets to it.
I know that you and PA Hiker do a lot of work on trails in central PA and I thank you for that!
As for me, most of my hiking is on trails other than the AT because it is so far away and many times these trails are not maintained as well as the AT is. I try to do some while hiking and still stay on schedule, but I haven't had a "trail maintainance only" day for quite a while.
Does reporting fallen trees and other obstacles to the maintainers count?
My schedule has been so crazy this year that I had more time for volunteering than for really hiking. I take it as a good way of knowing new trails. If you have worked on it... you will not forget it. Hopefully I'll be able of adding more miles to my section hiking next year:)
Ground Control
08-15-2013, 19:18
I appreciate the spirit of this thread, and I fully support the get/give ratio equality that is implies within...
...but my last two sections have really motivated me to invest more time and resources into efforts related to homelessness and hunger. Suffice it to say that these issues have been brought to the forefront of my mind while on the AT.
:-?
Absolutely. I for one, would be bored to tears "owning" section of trail and going out solo to work on it. Although I can see why someone could take pride in owning a portion of a trail and taking pride in its up keep.
My trail maintenance as always been one of those a whole group of us working together for 4-5 hours followed by lunch. Never worked on the same stretch of trail twice.
I'd bet you're not married JustaTouron. :D
Tipi is that Bob Bald? Yes that's Bob Butterfield. He, as well as the rest were great to share their site and campfire with me at the top of Whigg Meadow.
When I was in Tellico Plains on a three day non stop rain delay I thought I might run into you at Telico Bakery(great on site homemade bakery goods and joe!) but Bob told me you moved. then I thought for sure I would see you in Big Frog. I was looking forward to picking your brain about trails in the area that I haven't hike that I know you have virtually lived on.
HikerMom58
08-15-2013, 19:41
It's neat you ran into the group on the Whigg as here's a pic of the group when they dayhiked to the Bob. Bob Butterfield is on the right.
http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/3/a/9/2053033/TRIP-147-264.jpg
It's beautiful there!! :)
HikerMom58
08-15-2013, 19:52
I appreciate the spirit of this thread, and I fully support the get/give ratio equality that is implies within...
...but my last two sections have really motivated me to invest more time and resources into efforts related to homelessness and hunger. Suffice it to say that these issues have been brought to the forefront of my mind while on the AT.
:-?
Not a thing wrong with that... we all don't have the same passion & invested our time/energy into different things. Thank goodness we do!! :)
It's nice that you can enjoy the fruits of someone elses's labor- that, in turn, motivates you to help out on the homeless and hunger front... that's great. I'm not actively involved on that front but I support a 5k run every year that counts on that $$ to fund the place in Roanoke that help with this problem. We all do our part! :)
Ox97GaMe
08-15-2013, 20:40
Everyone is different. Not everyone that hikes the trail should be expected to, or feel obligated to perform trail maintenance. Most hikers that I have met feel a desire to give back in some way to society, not just to the trail. When I completed my thru hike, I got involved with mentoring inner city kids in Atlanta. That led to opportunities to help families in need during the Christmas holiday season (gifts, food, transportation, etc). It was 2 years after my thru hike before I got heavily involved in trail maintenance. I have been blessed to have been able to have the time to give back more than an hour of trail maintenance for every mile of my thru hike. Even when I am on a pleasure hiking trip, I find myself in mainteanacne mode. I am always kicking away loose rocks and removing limb debris. I cant help myself.
rocketsocks
08-15-2013, 21:43
Ratio, No where near what it should/could be. :-? thanks for the reminder to give back.
Monkeywrench
08-16-2013, 07:13
Also, hikers need to do the right thing when they encounter maintainers working on the Trail. A good friend of mine who has maintained in Tennessee for years told me that many hikers walk right by trail workers without so much as a "Hello!", never mind a "Thank you!" or stopping for a few minutes to talk. And the number who ask the workers if they need help with anything or an extra set of hands for a little while is such a tiny fraction of hikers so as to be non-existent. So please, if you see men and women out digging, building walls or staircases, moving logs or boulders.......if you're in too much of a hurry to offer them a hand, at least offer a smile or a word of thanks. Your trip and your Trail would not exist without them.
I probably spend more weekends doing maintenance than I do "just out hiking." I've been working maintenance in Vermont with the GMC for decades. Most hikers we meet out on the trail are friendly and appreciative. A small minority are complaining jerks ("You need to cut the ferns. They get my socks all wet in the morning!") I can't recall anyone ever offering to help, though I never expected anyone to either; after all, they're out for a hike.
A small minority are complaining jerks ("You need to cut the ferns. They get my socks all wet in the morning!") I can't recall anyone ever offering to help
You need to hand out scythes, "just leave it at the next road crossing, we'll pick it up, thanks."
I have done three thru-hikes,and i have done several sections, and i haven't done any trail maintenance I don't think a thru-hiker needs to do trail maintenance in order to give back to the trail, It's up to the person, some do and some don't.
You're right of course, threepeat thru-hikers don't have to do trail maintenance to give back to the trail. They can do other stuff like volunteer for a week at the ATC in Harpers Ferry, or clean toilets at the Place.
lambsknoll
08-16-2013, 09:43
To some degree hiking is itself a form of trail maintenance. For example animal trails are solely maintained by the passage of said animals. So in that sense one's ratio is always one to one.
Having said that, dedicated trail maintenance is as important to the AT as it is rewarding to the participant. Volunteer today!
coach lou
08-16-2013, 10:03
Having said that, dedicated trail maintenance is as important to the AT as it is rewarding to the participant. Volunteer today!
I can attest to this sentiment!:sun
LIhikers
04-15-2014, 11:36
My wife and I are boundary monitors in NY, near Graymoor. We make at least 2 trips a year, spring and fall. Depending on how much time we spend clipping, cutting, and clearing, each trip is 1 or 2 days. If there's painting and blazing to be done we usually do that in extra trips. But no matter how much we do you'll probably never see it as our "trail maintenance" takes us out to the edges of the property the trail runs through, not along the trail itself. But that's ok because we do it for our own satisfaction and enjoyment. We've had such good times hiking sections of the AT that we wanted to help maintain this fantastic resource so that others can enjoy it too.
Back to the original idea of a ratio of maintenance to hiking, I have no idea. We are required to keep track not only of our time working but also travel time when we do our boundary thing but I don't have a clue how much time we spend hiking, except to say, not enough.
RedBeerd
04-15-2014, 11:55
Don't do too much. Us trail workers will be out of a job!
I don't really think anyone should feel that they have to contribute in order to hike. Many contribute to other things in other ways. That said, I've been a trail or shelter adopter for more than 10 years, and wouldn't think of not doing something.
One caveat for those that want to do some ad-hoc trailwork... please check with the club or agency responsible for that trail before you begin. Someone else may be assigned to that trail and have plans. It sucks to haul tools for miles only to find that the work you had planned is already done!
My ratio, alas is infinite, as I have done zero formal trail maintenance. I do have hopes of retiring soon, and that's certainly something I plan to do when I have the time.
Starchild
04-15-2014, 14:02
My ratio is about 0:1 and I am very OK with that. There are no hard requirements nor would I ever want them to be. That said I do help out fellow hikers, my knowleage of medicinal plants has earned praise from some and my out of my way drives to see if a thru needs a lift into town also speaks to trail maintenance being not a requirement or obligation, and to semi-quote a highly controversial source, to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability.
gregpphoto
01-07-2015, 22:31
Im not sure how to tabulate this because in addition to doing two seasons of trail work with the SCA and with the Montana Cons. Corps, I find myself doing trailwork on every hike I go on. Ooo theres a shortcut developing, let me brush that in.. Knock that crud out of the waterbar with your heel (dont use toe! destroys boots faster)... hey you, stay off those alpine plants!
Traveler
01-08-2015, 11:22
I don't really think anyone should feel that they have to contribute in order to hike. Many contribute to other things in other ways. That said, I've been a trail or shelter adopter for more than 10 years, and wouldn't think of not doing something.
One caveat for those that want to do some ad-hoc trailwork... please check with the club or agency responsible for that trail before you begin. Someone else may be assigned to that trail and have plans. It sucks to haul tools for miles only to find that the work you had planned is already done!
Very good point. The only obligation people should feel to maintain trails should be from their own internal drivers.
I maintain about 8 miles of Blue Trail in CT, which has a very popular high spot view at the end of about a mile or so of trail. The balance of my trails go into the back country without attractions to the casual walker but provide nice, challenging hikes. The high spot trail I have to visit every few weeks just to remove litter and make repairs to the viewing area, removal of dog crap, etc. The back country trails are twice a year, removing mostly deadfalls and tree branches. If anyone has an itch to maintain a trail, they could be most effective in moving branches or small, easily move limbs from the treadway. That can be done with low effort and not slow a hike much if you are good with the pole. If every fifth or tenth hiker were to flip a branch or two off to the side of the trail and pick up a little litter (or clean up after Fido) my job would be a lot easier and I could spend more time doing trail improvements instead of custodial work.
Deadeye is absolutely correct about doing trail maintenance without talking to the managing organization. Many times work that is done ad-hoc has to be torn out and redone. Train maintainers typically have standards of repair, construction, routing, and treadway care that people may not be aware of. For the same reason leaving a scythe at a trail head for people to use to keep brush down (as was suggested, and a pretty neat idea) isn't an option for organizations that manage trails due to the liability of use by untrained people. Our organization requires supervision of people using tools who are not members of the organizations trail maintenance group(s) and have completed a training process.
gregpphoto
01-08-2015, 12:13
Deadeye is absolutely correct about doing trail maintenance without talking to the managing organization. Many times work that is done ad-hoc has to be torn out and redone. Train maintainers typically have standards of repair, construction, routing, and treadway care that people may not be aware of. For the same reason leaving a scythe at a trail head for people to use to keep brush down (as was suggested, and a pretty neat idea) isn't an option for organizations that manage trails due to the liability of use by untrained people. Our organization requires supervision of people using tools who are not members of the organizations trail maintenance group(s) and have completed a training process.
This is going to sound incredibly conceited, but I've been trained well enough to know my strengths and limitations. The stuff I do while Im hiking is the simple stuff that I KNOW is necessary and not so much a matter of opinion (brushing in a developing shortcut, not exactly rocket appliances). Sure, I would love to build some bog bridges while Im at it haha, but Ill leave the technical stuff for when there are management types around to direct the action.
somers515
01-08-2015, 12:54
Interesting topic. One thing that made me laugh was JustaTouron's quote. "Mt. Katahdin would be a lot quicker to climb if its darn access trail didn't start all the way down in Georgia." Is that quoting someone or is that a JustaTouron original?
Traveler
01-08-2015, 13:06
This is going to sound incredibly conceited, but I've been trained well enough to know my strengths and limitations. The stuff I do while Im hiking is the simple stuff that I KNOW is necessary and not so much a matter of opinion (brushing in a developing shortcut, not exactly rocket appliances). Sure, I would love to build some bog bridges while Im at it haha, but Ill leave the technical stuff for when there are management types around to direct the action.
Not conceited at all, many people know how to use trail tools, know what needs to be done, and perhaps more importantly understand the standards that have to be followed in various projects. Cleaning out water bars, brushing out game/illicit trails, and doing light maintenance is a great help. I'll take that kind of help anytime I can get it and sure wish you lived near here!
Putting in rock stairs, or puncheons are pretty technical and are not routine in trail maintenance as much as clearing/cutting brush and the above activities. However these projects are usually beyond an individuals ability or desire to do by themselves. We get requests to do work like this by folks outside of the organization, both individuals and groups like Scouts. They more often than not get the green light too. The person responsible for the trail section usually has to be involved to ensure the proper surveys are done prior to the work and construction/repair standards are maintained. Its when people don't contact us that problems can arise. Like rerouting a bit of trail around an eroded spot that goes through a stand of protected plants.
I have Thru-Hiked the AT three times done several Long/short sections, Hiked the FootHills Trail, The MST and several other trails, including trails in the Colorado Rocky Mountains and Yellowstone National Park, Glacier National Park. and several other places through out the Rockies but the only time I have actually done trail work Is on my 2006 AT thru I was in the SNP and I came across the trail club that does that section, they was putting water breaks in so I stopped and helped them It took 6 hrs and i had a very nice lunch with them, they treated me to a Bolagna/cheese sandwich a bag of chips and cola, so any body that has the opportunity to stop and help out even if your on a Thru-Hike stop and help.
I brought the longest handle loppers and a curved blade green saw to my first "trail grooming". Me and one man made short work of the trail assigned to us. Others came back to have lunch there and to help us. We had finished our trail in half a day. Those are thr best tools for what long handled loppers and a curved green saw will cut growing over a trail. We could easily handle "the big stuff" as well as "the little stuff". We didn't hack or whack. The trail looked entirely natural.
Second Saturday of every month spent with the Red River Gorge Trail Crew. I haven't missed a Saturday in ages. On the other hand, I haven't gone on an overnight hike in years.
gregpphoto
01-08-2015, 16:17
I'll take that kind of help anytime I can get it and sure wish you lived near here!
Well give it a couple million years and another orogeny and maybe Connecticut will have big enough mountains to attract me!
Last couple of years. Just trash picking up at the 3 trail heads within 5 miles. Once in awhile clean out the Oct Mt firepit which I should do regular since I know the back way in. Years ago I helped out abit with the relocation.
coach lou
01-08-2015, 18:07
29469294702947129472294732947429475
I hooked up with this crew in July, I had walked about 75 miles up to then in '14'. Worked every month since but only managed to get out for about 30 more.
Unfortunately, the more trail work I do, the less miles I've walked.
handlebar
01-08-2015, 19:58
I've put in over 26 ATC trail crew "weeks" and lots of outings with local NCNST trail chapter. Then again, I've also put years under my boots/shoes in that time frame.
Traveler
01-09-2015, 09:28
Well give it a couple million years and another orogeny and maybe Connecticut will have big enough mountains to attract me!
Well, get another 30 years on ya, and I'll bet you'll find most any mountain between NJ an VT a challenge lol
coach lou
11-28-2015, 21:22
Well so far in '15' I've only walked about 100 miles, but I've done 250 hrs of trail work!
The GF and I just did a 7 mile loop hike up Caribou Mountain and along the way we cleaned the leaves out of the water bars on the trail. Something as simple as that goes a long way to make sure the trail stays in decent shape. We usually dedicate a couple weekends during the in the Spring to clean blowdowns off the Grafton Notch Loop Trail. Memorial weekend, we had two older couples thank us for clearing the trail, but the younger hikers just walked on by, stepping over and around the branches on the trail.
coach lou
11-29-2015, 10:15
The GF and I just did a 7 mile loop hike up Caribou Mountain and along the way we cleaned the leaves out of the water bars on the trail. Something as simple as that goes a long way to make sure the trail stays in decent shape. We usually dedicate a couple weekends during the in the Spring to clean blowdowns off the Grafton Notch Loop Trail. Memorial weekend, we had two older couples thank us for clearing the trail, but the younger hikers just walked on by, stepping over and around the branches on the trail.
I am glad to say that in these 2 years of building trail..............99.8% of the folks walking thru, voice their appreciation. Many folks say they want to get involved...............I tell them that when we are gone and they are our age they will be taking our place.
At the annual RPH shelter Work/BBQ, many LASHers and thrus stop for the weekend and chip in!
It is indeed 'All good'
Its just like anywhere else you go in life...if you see something that needs done, do it. It doesn't have to be an organized and planned out thing.
Sarcasm the elf
11-29-2015, 10:28
Well so far in '15' I've only walked about 100 miles, but I've done 250 hrs of trail work!
And does that include all the miles you walk back and forth while performing the trail maintenance?
coach lou
11-29-2015, 10:48
I walked that .123 miles 18 times on that West Mtn. relo, plus the .75 to the worksite....with tools! :)
LIhikers
01-10-2016, 21:54
In 2015 didn't do as much hiking or trail maintenance as I would have liked to.
My wife and I have a section of trail corridor in NY where we are boundary monitors.
I especially like doing trail grooming, using long handled loppers.
I trim the brush that grown over the trail.
I haven't don't much of that, lately: our group isn't active.
However, I do trail grooming every hike: I carry a large lawn and leaf bag, or a contractor's bag, and pick up any trash in fire pits, or elsewhere, I see.
If more trash than I can pick
up, I report it.
I've started taking Tipi's rec and hiking with hand pruners doing some pruning as I go. Problem, or maybe not a problem, I like hand pruning so much that I take it to the level of professional arboriculture artistry.
Regularly pick up and pack out others trash.
Volunteer 10 days or more per yr on trail maintenance crews on various trails. SO MANY trails need help! How do you assist?
My ratio is so dismal though as it's typical to avg 2500 hiking miles on trails and routes annually.
I've started taking Tipi's rec and hiking with hand pruners doing some pruning as I go. Problem, or maybe not a problem, I like hand pruning so much that I take it to the level of professional arboriculture artistry.
Me too. I had seen the bigger stuff hacked with hachets.
When I had a chance to go with a group, contracted to do trail work, I brought my long-handled loppers and a green saw I tucked in a rifle scabbard.
I hadn't thought of taking hand pruners along on a hike: individuals are highly restricted about cutting, taking, etc. in wilderness and parklands near me.
How about National Forests? No?
My ratio, alas is infinite, as I have done zero formal trail maintenance. I do have hopes of retiring soon, and that's certainly something I plan to do when I have the time.
RPH summer work party for the last couple of summers, and hopefully this summer as well. Spent a day hacking out a short local trail as part of an AMC work party last summer.
Wife and I are still debating where to retire to, but my non-negotiable requirement is that it be near the AT (or some other major trail, but preferably AT) so I can do lots more. Williamstown and Great Barrington are top candidates.
windlion
02-26-2017, 05:40
PATC Cadillac Crew in central Virginia welcomes thru hikers at the table for our monthly evening potluck, as long as we have enough to go around. We also welcome volunteers for our weekends, of course, and some of us come in from as far away as Philadelphia. (We're one of seven trail crews here, and we've got a lot of people doing shelters also.)
Yes, thanks and LNT are appreciated, but a lifelong commitment to maintaining all our naional trail systems is needed also. The underfunded fed and state rangers depend on us all; more hands are desperately needed, young and old, all persuasions.
One of the cooler trail experiences I have enjoyed is sidehilling in a relo while our lead puts up those white blazes, knowing that our work is going to be a part of one of the long Trails that we walk for years to come.
Oh, and I only freeblaze about 5 days for every maintenance day. Planning to increase that this year.
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windlion
02-26-2017, 05:41
Awesome Post!! I agree!! :)
Agreed!
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windlion
02-26-2017, 05:45
I always thank trail maintainers, but I have been almost ignored by them too while thanking them before.
Perhaps they were just tired, or perhaps after cleaning trash out a privy, their perception of hikers was temporarily affected.
Too tired is true. Also, many hikers just thank, never turn back at the end of their journey to get back out on trail weekends with picks and shovels. Come on out! AFAIK there are no UL sledgehammers and rockbars, sorry.
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29469294702947129472294732947429475
I hooked up with this crew in July, I had walked about 75 miles up to then in '14'. Worked every month since but only managed to get out for about 30 more.
Unfortunately, the more trail work I do, the less miles I've walked.
I am glad to say that in these 2 years of building trail..............99.8% of the folks walking thru, voice their appreciation. Many folks say they want to get involved...............I tell them that when we are gone and they are our age they will be taking our place.
At the annual RPH shelter Work/BBQ, many LASHers and thrus stop for the weekend and chip in!
It is indeed 'All good'
Good stuff Coach Lou. Nice NJ/NY Trail Conference doubling back stone work steps. I can't place the location though?
Don Louigi were you in Good Fellas? :cool: