View Full Version : A sincere question about all the speed records, trail records, most times, etc.
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 10:52
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
hikerboy57
08-19-2013, 10:55
no. it will never stop.
still waiting for someone to jump the english channel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvk2wNWmB20
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
Driver personalities tend to do stuff like this. Amiable personalities tend to wonder why they are going so fast.
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
Why? Because people like to push themselves to and beyond their perceived limits.
Will it stop? No.
do people do it without publicity? Yes, but you don't hear about it so it didn't exist, so nothing to talk about.
I think this may fall in the Hike Your Own Hike category. Some people enjoy pushing themselves. Some prefer a more mellow approach. I don't see either as right or wrong.
Of this recent batch of records being broken I haven't seen any of the hikers other than possibly Josh on the PCT raising money for a cause he strongly believes in that sought any kind of publicity - they all were hiking for themselves for their personal enjoyment without trying to score a book deal or TV appearances. What makes you think that because someone is hiking faster than you - or faster than anyone else ever has - that they are not enjoying themselves? Have you ever set a personal goal that took a lot of work and then achieved it? Take one look at the smiles and tears on their faces when they finish and tell me that they are crying over all the fame they are about to receive. Please... No one hikes for fame or publicity or to write a book or any of that crap. If they do, they are a complete idiot because there is very little fame to be had. Hike your own hike and let others hike theirs.
Why do people run marathons? Why do people long distance bike ride? Why do we backpack? Why hike the AT? The answer to all these questions are the same as the answer to your questions about speed hiking. If you have to ask the question you will never understand the answer.
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 12:21
I think this may fall in the Hike Your Own Hike category. Some people enjoy pushing themselves. Some prefer a more mellow approach. I don't see either as right or wrong.
Not saying it's right/wrong, just wondering how hard will people push themselves before anything bad happens that was caused by pushing themselves so hard.
Why do people do thru-hike? Isn't it better to do only a few miles per day, perhaps make basecamp, and really explore an area? Wouldn't say 5 mos in Yellowstone be more rewarding than racing through the mountains and only knowing a small, 3 foot wide section of a trail for a few months?
Another view from people who can't comprehend thru-hiking. One actually heard expressed in one form or another over the years. Is their view any different than how people may view faster hikes?
(Keeping this thread in the general forum as the speed hiking forum really is not for debating the merits of speed hikes)
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 12:28
Of this recent batch of records being broken I haven't seen any of the hikers other than possibly Josh on the PCT raising money for a cause he strongly believes in that sought any kind of publicity - they all were hiking for themselves for their personal enjoyment without trying to score a book deal or TV appearances. What makes you think that because someone is hiking faster than you - or faster than anyone else ever has - that they are not enjoying themselves? Have you ever set a personal goal that took a lot of work and then achieved it? Take one look at the smiles and tears on their faces when they finish and tell me that they are crying over all the fame they are about to receive. Please... No one hikes for fame or publicity or to write a book or any of that crap. If they do, they are a complete idiot because there is very little fame to be had. Hike your own hike and let others hike theirs.
Why do people run marathons? Why do people long distance bike ride? Why do we backpack? Why hike the AT? The answer to all these questions are the same as the answer to your questions about speed hiking. If you have to ask the question you will never understand the answer.
So okay, maybe it's just me noticing all the recent attempts at going faster, least days, most miles in a day, least food, unsupported/supported.
I myself will be doing a walk from Florida to Maine and back to GA, then ME then GA again in about 3 years. But I am only doing all those miles to enjoy myself and see if my 50+ year old body can do it. I won't go telling anybody about it unless I am asked or I am asking for assistance to do it. What that means is that I'll require someone willing to be a base of operations.
After that long adventure, I'll go do another really long one. But again I won't be telling people about it unless asked.
So okay, maybe it's just me noticing all the recent attempts at going faster, least days, most miles in a day, least food, unsupported/supported.
I myself will be doing a walk from Florida to Maine and back to GA, then ME then GA again in about 3 years. But I am only doing all those miles to enjoy myself and see if my 50+ year old body can do it. I won't go telling anybody about it unless I am asked or I am asking for assistance to do it. What that means is that I'll require someone willing to be a base of operations.
After that long adventure, I'll go do another really long one. But again I won't be telling people about it unless asked.
Did someone ask you about these hikes to cause you to tell everyone on this site about them?
Personally I love to run until I puke. I like the challenge of trail runs, half marathons, and marathons. I'd be beyond happy to run an ultra if I didn't break down all the time.
Kudos to Garrett, Davis, Wilkinson, et al. I totally admire their accomplishments and wish that others who are attempting such things would publicize their efforts more thoroughly so that I could follow along. I really enjoy reading about them..
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 12:44
BTW, I'd would like to say that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Yes, it is a HOH and I do admire them for doing what they do.
Perhaps it would be nice to know whom these others are that have done such as the "records" hikers so I can read about them just doing it, not because they have to beat the other person or best them.
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 12:45
Did someone ask you about these hikes to cause you to tell everyone on this site about them?
Personally I love to run until I puke. I like the challenge of trail runs, half marathons, and marathons. I'd be beyond happy to run an ultra if I didn't break down all the time.
Kudos to Garrett, Davis, Wilkinson, et al. I totally admire their accomplishments and wish that others who are attempting such things would publicize their efforts more thoroughly so that I could follow along. I really enjoy reading about them..
I'm not telling everyone about them. I merely stated the planning of them.
Odd Man Out
08-19-2013, 12:55
I chalk it up to human nature and thus it won't change. If you look at a lot of sports, it is pretty easy to imagine how it got started. One guy pulls his car up to a stop light along side another car, revs his engine in neutral to get the attention of the driver next to him, the light turns green, and drag racing was invented. Cave man Og drags a gazelle back to the cave and brags about being able to chase it down and kill it. His friend Thog say "ug, I could do that, ug", and Cross Country Foot Racing was invented. Ever been to a Highland Games competition? The sports are either based on farming (who can throw a bale of hay the highest, or a tree trunk over a stream) or they just started at the pub when Angus says to Calum "Aye, I bet you a pint I can throw that rrrrock farther than you can". Of course eventually we ran out of practical (or even impractical) things to compete in so we had to invent completely arbitrary games like football and baseball. This has come to its zenith with the X-games, which are completely stupid (motorcycle high jump???). Let's face it, speed hiking makes more sense than Cricket (although they both involve tea breaks).
Different Socks
08-19-2013, 13:12
I chalk it up to human nature and thus it won't change. If you look at a lot of sports, it is pretty easy to imagine how it got started. One guy pulls his car up to a stop light along side another car, revs his engine in neutral to get the attention of the driver next to him, the light turns green, and drag racing was invented. Cave man Og drags a gazelle back to the cave and brags about being able to chase it down and kill it. His friend Thog say "ug, I could do that, ug", and Cross Country Foot Racing was invented. Ever been to a Highland Games competition? The sports are either based on farming (who can throw a bale of hay the highest, or a tree trunk over a stream) or they just started at the pub when Angus says to Calum "Aye, I bet you a pint I can throw that rrrrock farther than you can". Of course eventually we ran out of practical (or even impractical) things to compete in so we had to invent completely arbitrary games like football and baseball. This has come to its zenith with the X-games, which are completely stupid (motorcycle high jump???). Let's face it, speed hiking makes more sense than Cricket (although they both involve tea breaks).
Thanks for the reply ODO.
Actually whenever I see some kind of record being broken I always think that there should be competitive hiking for those kinds of hikers. People push themselves in all kinds of ways so why not have those who are interested in this kind of thing compete against each other. As for the rest of us who couldn't care less, we can continue to ignore the whole thing.
BTW, I'd would like to say that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing. Yes, it is a HOH and I do admire them for doing what they do.
Perhaps it would be nice to know whom these others are that have done such as the "records" hikers so I can read about them just doing it, not because they have to beat the other person or best them.
Check out Swami's triple crown hike from last year. He made almost no fuss other stating that he intended to do 12 hikes with the last three being the triple crown. He set the CDT record, if there's such a thing and told no one. To this day I don't think he has once written about it on his site or elsewhere because he did it to meet his aggressive schedule not set the record. I suspect there have been others that have set records and not made a big deal as well.
rocketsocks
08-20-2013, 04:52
I don't think it's always a either or. I like pushing myself at times, seeing how far and how fast I can go. then there are other times I just want to sit and explore the three foot around me, I gotta think the're others that feel this way too, cause we're all more the same than different.
warren doyle
08-20-2013, 12:07
As a former long distance trail record holder (AT 1973-78, 66.3 days, 66% supported/33%unsupported); (LT 1978-2007 unsupported); (Springer to Katahdin w/ground transportation - 30 hours - 2010-present); mentor/sole support for 19 y.o. Sam Swisher-McClure (LT supported record-1997; AT supported attempt 1998 - 24 days Springer to Pine Grove Furnace); mentor/coach Jennifer Pharr's (2007 unsupported record for the LT - since broken); mentor/coach/limited support for Jennifer Pharr Davis (2008 supported women's record for the AT); and, mentor/coach/limited support for Jennifer Phar Davis (2011 overall AT record supported record 46.5 days), I firmly support most of the endurance record attempts on the AT. I find that most AT record-holders are the true Olympians. I admire and respect them more then drugged up professional athletes and heavily subsidized elite Olympic athletes. Life isn't all about enjoyment and fun. There is no growth without struggle. No dream is realized without effort and discipline. My hat's off to Avery, Leonard, Palmer, Swisher-McClure, Horton, Thompson, Palmer, Pharr Davis and Kirk for their singular achievements!
WingedMonkey
08-20-2013, 17:14
If 80% of thru-hikers fail (I believe in is higher), 99.9 % of attempted record breakers fail.
:sun
Sunshine82
08-20-2013, 21:35
I think it's amazing.the human body can adapt to almost anything and I think it's awesome that people test their abilities
As a former long distance trail record holder (AT 1973-78, 66.3 days, 66% supported/33%unsupported); (LT 1978-2007 unsupported); (Springer to Katahdin w/ground transportation - 30 hours - 2010-present); mentor/sole support for 19 y.o. Sam Swisher-McClure (LT supported record-1997; AT supported attempt 1998 - 24 days Springer to Pine Grove Furnace); mentor/coach Jennifer Pharr's (2007 unsupported record for the LT - since broken); mentor/coach/limited support for Jennifer Pharr Davis (2008 supported women's record for the AT); and, mentor/coach/limited support for Jennifer Phar Davis (2011 overall AT record supported record 46.5 days), I firmly support most of the endurance record attempts on the AT. I find that most AT record-holders are the true Olympians. I admire and respect them more then drugged up professional athletes and heavily subsidized elite Olympic athletes. Life isn't all about enjoyment and fun. There is no growth without struggle. No dream is realized without effort and discipline. My hat's off to Avery, Leonard, Palmer, Swisher-McClure, Horton, Thompson, Palmer, Pharr Davis and Kirk for their singular achievements!
Well said. And put your own name in the list of great acheivers. You guys are amazing.
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
Your goal and their goal is the same. To enjoy the trail like you want to enjoy it. Many people ask me why do I want to go to the woods on my vacation when I could go on a cruise or sit on the beach or go fishing. Because this is what I want to do. So you see when we go to the trail its because we want to. That may be to hike like a snail (as in my case) hike 10-15mpd or hike 45mpd for 48 days/ We are all differant and there in lies the answer to your question
Different Socks asked a primary question: "Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things?" He even came back to it repeatedly restating this question and still received so many tangental answers.
I think Odd Man Out gave him the closest or best or most on target answer to his question. It CAN BE part of human nature - the part that caters to the ego. So to answer Different Sock's question pointedly, I think it's mostly because people are catering to the ego. What's the purpose in a record if it's not acknowledged publically? to be recognized for it? What's the purpose in competition if their aren't winners? Don't tell me that people who attain records don't want to be recognized for their achievements? Perhaps, to varying degrees based on the individual(as in individual ego) but none the less people want to be recognized to cater to the ego. Often those doing speed hikes want them to be acknowledged publically too for the same reason. It's the same with some thru-hikers. People don't like admitting this though - which is probably catering to the ego too!
You would think some are applying for a stuffed shirt multimillion dollar salaried position with their answers. I didn't know we we're posting resumes today. I'll have to sharpen up mine. Uh oh there goes my ego. Better keep it in check.
Different Socks
08-20-2013, 22:55
Different Socks asked a primary question: "Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things?" He even came back to it repeatedly restating this question and still received so many tangental answers.
I think Odd Man Out gave him the closest or best or most on target answer to his question. It CAN BE part of human nature - the part that caters to the ego. So to answer Different Sock's question pointedly, I think it's mostly because people are catering to the ego. What's the purpose in a record if it's not acknowledged publically? to be recognized for it? What's the purpose in competition if their aren't winners? Don't tell me that people who attain records don't want to be recognized for their achievements? Perhaps, to varying degrees based on the individual(as in individual ego) but none the less people want to be recognized to cater to the ego. Often those doing speed hikes want them to be acknowledged publically too for the same reason. It's the same with some thru-hikers. People don't like admitting this though - which is probably catering to the ego too!
Well said!
You would think some are applying for a stuffed shirt multimillion dollar salaried position with their answers. I didn't know we we're posting resumes today. I'll have to sharpen up mine. Uh oh there goes my ego. Better keep it in check.
if you got one post it. because we egotist love to see a resume we can beat. LOL
Certainly there is a role for ego in record attempts. For me, hiking the AT once, at a very mundane pace, set a record for me--my hiking PR, if you will. Going into it, and all the way along, I feared failure. Knowing that most people quit their hikes, which would have been failure in my book, I used every tool I could think of to encourage myself to succeed.
Pride was one of those tools. I told everyone I could think of that I was going to hike the whole Trail, if I had to crawl. And pride kept me going through some rough spots.
A record attempt is hugely more difficult than my little hike. Publicly throwing down the gauntlet would be an important tool. It signifies commitment more than a secret pact with one's self normally does.
I've always enjoyed doing difficult things. I enjoy pitting my wits against certain kinds of challenges--it perks me up and puts a sparkle in my eyes. I'm not world-class in any of my endeavors, but I relate to the lure of the challenge, and can understand the desire to go farther, faster, higher.
"Fortune favors the brave."
very nice marta. what you dont see is that you are world class. You just dont have record breaking speed. You are a successful world class thru hiker. Very few can say that.
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
.
You know. I just re-read this sentence above.
There seems to be a negative connotation to doing something hard.
To pushing one's self.
To try to attain a goal that most people think is bit off.
So, I guess the question to ask:
Why hike 2180 miles when some day hikes locally would be less strenuous?
Why train for a marathon? Isn't a 5k quicker and easier?
Why cook from scratch? McDonald's is apparently the best bang-for-the-buck calorie wise and so much more convenient.
Why work full time and get a masters part time? Wouldn't my wife be happier with the job she has now and all the free time she would have?
So yes Double Socks..why do people push themselves?
Life would be better if we did not challenge ourselves. If we did not go past self-imposed limits. If we took the easy way out.
I think it would be better if we all stayed home. Watch TV. And come no where near something physically, mentally or emotionally challenging.
stranger
08-21-2013, 06:27
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
A friend of mine was one of the first ever thru-hikers of the North Country Trail, he did the trail in the early 90's and never reported it, in many ways it was a pioneering hike, but he wouldn't say that. Not everyone seeks publicity, he also went on to hike the AT and PCT in the same Calander year, etc...
WingedMonkey
08-21-2013, 09:29
You know. I just re-read this sentence above.
There seems to be a negative connotation to doing something hard.
To pushing one's self.
To try to attain a goal that most people think is bit off.
So, I guess the question to ask:
Why hike 2180 miles when some day hikes locally would be less strenuous?
Why train for a marathon? Isn't a 5k quicker and easier?
Why cook from scratch? McDonald's is apparently the best bang-for-the-buck calorie wise and so much more convenient.
Why work full time and get a masters part time? Wouldn't my wife be happier with the job she has now and all the free time she would have?
So yes Double Socks..why do people push themselves?
Life would be better if we did not challenge ourselves. If we did not go past self-imposed limits. If we took the easy way out.
I think it would be better if we all stayed home. Watch TV. And come no where near something physically, mentally or emotionally challenging.
First, I like to say thanks for leaving this discussion in the "General" forum.
Why hike 2180 miles when some day hikes locally would be less strenuous?
Of the hundreds of backpackers that finished a thru-hike this year, I have no idea nor does the ATC keep count of who came in first, second or last.
Why train for a marathon? Isn't a 5k quicker and easier?
Thousands of people run in marathons across the country for the accomplishment. Outside of the few Kenyans that place in the top three (even in our local race) no one expects to "win".
Why cook from scratch? McDonald's is apparently the best bang-for-the-buck calorie wise and so much more convenient.
Even though I know I am the best cook in my family, none of us enter cook-offs or Betty Crocker recipe contests. Other than a cooking merit badge I have no ribbons.
Why work full time and get a masters part time? Wouldn't my wife be happier with the job she has now and all the free time she would have?
A wonderful and difficult accomplishment. However, just one of thousands. And unless some fourteen year old prodigy gets one there will be no fastest or slowest record for her to set or beat.
Of course life is better if we challenge our selves and give an honest effort to make accomplishments. But some things , like hiking the AT just don't need a first place.
I do hold the 1995 record for the last thru-hiker that did not skip, yellow blaze, or flop flip to reach Katahdin. I've tried to beat it since, but there is always someone behind me.
:banana
All valid points and good points for discussion, but our friend from Montana directly said
"Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things?"
Are we really debating the sentence above?
While an argument can be made for not publicizing, I scratch at my head why people are opposed to the very basics of endurance hiking.
Why is speed hiking "wrong"? Is there really something wrong with "pushing yourselves so hard to go out and do things?"
As for the publicity angle...
Where would our passion be if Colin Fletcher, Ed Abbey, Ed Garvey and so on did not share their adventures and accomplishments?
Sure. Some people are more narcissistic than others..but someone like JPD is a wonderful ambassador for the trail, hiking and the outdoors. Every account I've read about her states how much she seems to give back to community and the generosity of her spirit.
Personally, I love it when people challenge themselves and share their experiences.
I remember by 6th grade teacher. Mrs. Daley. She was tough. She had high standards. She challenged us. She was one of my favorite teachers ever.
She had a large sign above her desk "A man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for?"
In the same way, when someone goes for these record hikes, climbs, ski traverses or what-have-you, I am often inspired myself.
Not to set a record hike (I look more like a dock worker than a marathon runner. :D), but to push my own limits.
When I saw an excellent documentary (http://www.ridethedividemovie.com/) on the GMDBR race, I had no desire to mt bike, much less race on one. ;) I was, however, again inspired to hopefully do a journey again of own.
There is something to be said for being anonymous.
There is grace, honor and admiration for the person who anon. hiked through the Grand Canyon.
But think of how many more people he inspired by chronicling his hike (http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064)?
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
Yes i did the AT three times and several long sections cause i love the out doors, i didn't do it for the Materialistic stuff, 2000 miler patch, certificate, i also got a necklace with three medalions on it one for each thru-hike, i never wear it and i don't have my patches on my pack, i did it for myself and my self only, i will probably never write a book either. all those records, Speed whatever else thats just kinda stupid in my oppinon, but no it will never stop.
Yes i did the AT three times and several long sections cause i love the out doors, i didn't do it for the Materialistic stuff, 2000 miler patch, certificate, i also got a necklace with three medalions on it one for each thru-hike, i never wear it and i don't have my patches on my pack, i did it for myself and my self only, i will probably never write a book either. all those records, Speed whatever else thats just kinda stupid in my oppinon, but no it will never stop.
I hear what you are saying reddog. But while you think speed hiking is stupid some one out there thinks that hiking a thru is stupid. And hiking it 3 x is insane. As I said earlier we are out there for the same reason, no matter how we do it, to enjoy the trail. Will record hiking end? Heck no. record setting has been going on since the begining of mankind. And while you think it is stupid I and many others find it quite insprational to see how far we can reach. Me, I aint reaching too far....but I am reaching. Its OK that we see things differantly. This world would be quite boring if we all thought alike.
Pedaling Fool
08-21-2013, 15:57
Different Socks asked a primary question: "Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things?" He even came back to it repeatedly restating this question and still received so many tangental answers.
I think Odd Man Out gave him the closest or best or most on target answer to his question. It CAN BE part of human nature - the part that caters to the ego. So to answer Different Sock's question pointedly, I think it's mostly because people are catering to the ego. What's the purpose in a record if it's not acknowledged publically? to be recognized for it? What's the purpose in competition if their aren't winners? Don't tell me that people who attain records don't want to be recognized for their achievements? Perhaps, to varying degrees based on the individual(as in individual ego) but none the less people want to be recognized to cater to the ego. Often those doing speed hikes want them to be acknowledged publically too for the same reason. It's the same with some thru-hikers. People don't like admitting this though - which is probably catering to the ego too!And let's not forget about the people that attempt to discredit those that speed hike. They are also catering to their ego.
Why? Because people like to push themselves to and beyond their perceived limits.
Will it stop? No.
do people do it without publicity? Yes, but you don't hear about it so it didn't exist, so nothing to talk about.
Once again, Malto has spoken words of wisdom.
Sir-Packs-Alot
08-21-2013, 22:16
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? Will there ever be a limit?
Has there been anyone that simpy does it to do it and doesn't require publicity, or writes a book about it, no newspaper stories, no TV appearances.....they just do it because they want to?
One other question: Will it ever stop?
I am out there to enjoy myself, not to set a new record or standard for future hikers.
Good for you "Different Socks" ! This makes me think of Benton MacKaye and his fear that Americans were too "goal oriented" and "alpha" to appreciate the trail ... and all about "the journey" and not about the "destination". It is what it is - seems everyone writes a book and everyone has an argument pro or con about record holders. My hope is that be what it may - folks "hike the trail, see the trail and SEE what they see" as Benton Mackaye did.
Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 22:21
It's a whole different kind of walk, but I've done the Camino. Speed isn't an issue. You stay in a hostel every night. If you skip one, you don't get your pilgrims passport stamped, you won't be allowed to stay at the next village.
Actually he wrote (on the purpose of the AT) i "To walk. To see. To see what you see".
And that is different for everyone.
Personally. I to think we should chastise Myron Avery. Unlike the more idealistic Benton MacKaye, Myron Avery was goal oriented. Because he was so goal oriented, the AT was completed as a continuous trail. ;)
In fact, if Different Socks completed an AT thru-hike, that makes him goal oriented as well....
Benton MacKaye never envisioned a goal oritented thru-hike with its goal of getting from one point to another.
His vision was camps and retreats in the mountains. Not this manic imperative to hike a whole trail in six months. Only goal oriented, alpha types want to hike something from beginning to end. Better to go to the mountains, make camp and take in the area. No journey. No destination. Just contemplating the beauty of nature and getting away from goal oriented society and goal oriented activities like thru-hiking.
Aye?
THru-hiking is not compatible with the gospel you are preaching. ;)
Different Socks
08-21-2013, 23:59
All valid points and good points for discussion, but our friend from Montana directly said
"Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things?"
Are we really debating the sentence above?
While an argument can be made for not publicizing, I scratch at my head why people are opposed to the very basics of endurance hiking.
Why is speed hiking "wrong"? Is there really something wrong with "pushing yourselves so hard to go out and do things?"
As for the publicity angle...
Where would our passion be if Colin Fletcher, Ed Abbey, Ed Garvey and so on did not share their adventures and accomplishments?
Sure. Some people are more narcissistic than others..but someone like JPD is a wonderful ambassador for the trail, hiking and the outdoors. Every account I've read about her states how much she seems to give back to community and the generosity of her spirit.
Personally, I love it when people challenge themselves and share their experiences.
I remember by 6th grade teacher. Mrs. Daley. She was tough. She had high standards. She challenged us. She was one of my favorite teachers ever.
She had a large sign above her desk "A man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for?"
In the same way, when someone goes for these record hikes, climbs, ski traverses or what-have-you, I am often inspired myself.
Not to set a record hike (I look more like a dock worker than a marathon runner. :D), but to push my own limits.
When I saw an excellent documentary (http://www.ridethedividemovie.com/) on the GMDBR race, I had no desire to mt bike, much less race on one. ;) I was, however, again inspired to hopefully do a journey again of own.
There is something to be said for being anonymous.
There is grace, honor and admiration for the person who anon. hiked through the Grand Canyon.
But think of how many more people he inspired by chronicling his hike (http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064)?
I was also asking this question as to what would be the limit? Would someone have to die before others realize pushing that hard is not necessary?
Hill Ape
08-22-2013, 00:15
What is necessary? That's a philosophical question, each of us have a different answer. I would still hike my own hike even if a friend died hiking. In fact, on one level I would still hike to honor them
Different Socks
08-22-2013, 00:22
What is necessary? That's a philosophical question, each of us have a different answer. I would still hike my own hike even if a friend died hiking. In fact, on one level I would still hike to honor them
Yes, I understand. But would you hike at the same level that killed them?
Hill Ape
08-22-2013, 00:35
I speak only for myself, not in judgement of anyone else's hike.
I would push myself to meet or exceed my friends goal. And I would carry something of them with me. They would, in a symbolic way, still achieve their goal.
Just Bill
08-22-2013, 03:11
Why do people push themselves so hard to go out and do things? .
You asked a question about life in general, in the context of the outdoors. Take it out of that context first-
What made me work for 18 hours, fall asleep at my desk and get up and do it again? What made me do it for three days in a row? What makes me do things like that all the time?
What makes one man strive to be better, while another man strives to get by. What makes one parent propose that all children should receive a participation trophy, while another parent prefers the trophies only go to those who worked hard and did better?
What drives an entrepreneur to work long hours to build a business, while another person punches the clock and works for the weekend?
What makes one person come home and watch TV, and another do things?
What makes one person settle and another demand more?
Ego, pride, self-esteem, type-A personality. Sure, all those things fit. They all fit me personally. I often find myself asking the reverse of your question- Why do people refuse to make their lives better?
Put it back into the outdoors, I get it. For many folks the outdoors is a vacation, an escape, a church, a place to find peace. I can understand the question you ask and the motivation for asking it. A record for the sake of a record is a pointless pursuit. Can you put yourself in the shoes of the folks you are asking about?
For some of us the outdoors is not an escape, or a vacation. It is a church, it is a place to find peace. It is a place we go not to get away from our lives, but to fully live them. As such, the way we live our life is the same in town or in the woods. Something makes me want to be better. Not better than another person, just better. Most experienced outdoorsman readily accept that the outdoors is not a place for ego, that Nature rules, not man; and certainly not an individual. That knowledge though does not negate our desire to be better people.
I read something different in Doyle's post than others may have, I may even be putting words in his mouth. I read about a guy who wants to be better. A guy who set records before there were records. A guy who pushed himself because that's who he is. But also a guy who is able to recognize that quality in others. If it was all ego, would he have mentored JPD to break his own Long Trail record? A record Jen didn't even realize she broke until she called him to let him know? In some rare cases, someone's "better" happens to be the best. But the best thing about being better in the outdoors, is that it isn't about being best. Sure there's an exception to every rule, but for the most part outdoorsman don't break records to break them. They strive to be better and occasionally turn out to be the best. They also help others do so, oftentimes at the expense of their own record. Even when they never directly meet another person- they still inspire them. I've never met Warren, but when Jen shared his words to her in her latest book- I might as well have been the one hearing them directly. Anish's post about being the fat kid growing up and achieving a dream in setting her record made me cry, and then it made me wipe my face and go for a hike. In the outdoors at least, it's not about setting records, those are simply a by product. To me; that's what makes it so much different than other sports, and so much better.
If I never break a record, I won't cry over it. I won't be disappointed. I do go to the woods for peace. If I didn't go there and do my best, didn't strive to be better- I would not find peace. I would cry over that- because for me, not being better is as good as being dead.
The title of this thread was that this was a sincere question. My response isn't a rant or attack- it's a sincere answer. I also sincerely don't understand why a fellow outdoorsman would have difficulty understanding it. Every backpacker who walks away from the ease of town life, to take their life in their hands and travel afoot is pushing themselves. Maybe not to the same degree- but certainly in the same category. When you strap on your pack you do it to be better. We're all just backpackers- we're all just being better. When I see you on the trail, you get a smile and a nod from me just for being there. I hope I'd get the same from you.
I was wondering where you were Bill. I knew you'd have something great to share as well as some BS on the subject. :)
Just Bill
08-22-2013, 03:44
Inspirational sappy BS is my specialty. Lotta working lately...all work and no play makes Bill work harder to play longer. 50 hours in three days- so I could take tomorrow off to sew a pack. Just being better...
JB, when you hitting the LT? Still rollin with that?
Just Bill
08-22-2013, 04:24
Yar- Hoping mid to late September at this point. Behind schedule though since going back to work... only getting out to train a day or two a week and only had a few overnighters in the last month. I'll be going no matter what- not sure how speedy I'll be at this point- but record or not- it'll still be a good trip. :D
I was also asking this question as to what would be the limit? Would someone have to die before others realize pushing that hard is not necessary?
So, the limit is what you define? ;)
IS 5 mos too fast? 4? Again, why not just make base camp in Yellowstone for a few weeks and really get to know nature. What's with this mania you have to go northbound from Springer to Katahdin?
Tell us the pace, equipment and MPD average so we know the correct way to hike. Your way? :D
ps. Pushing yourself so hard you'll die? Did you major in melodrama in college???
OK..I've probably done enough sarcasm...for today. :)
hikerboy57
08-22-2013, 08:25
Yes, I understand. But would you hike at the same level that killed them?
that level is different for every one of us.
for me , its when im out of my comfort zone that im really alive.i accept the inevitability of my death, so im not afraid of it. and id much rather die doing something i love,than sitting at home holding my remote control.when i was younger, i would push myself rock climbing.i would take fall after fall trying to master a move. and when i finally stuck it, it felt pretty darn good.this spring, when i was hiking through an ice storm,branches falling around me,i remember thinking"i could die out here", and then smiling , thinking"then i'll die happy."
im no record setter, but ive always looked for trails that would challenge me and my skills.its very satisfying to push through that "this really sucks" moment and see whats on the other side.
dzierzak
08-22-2013, 10:52
.....
OK..I've probably done enough sarcasm...for today. :)
HMHDI!!!!
:D
and more to make 10...
“I chalk it up to human nature and thus it won't change.” OMO
I’d say this pretty much answers the question (although I could be wrong :)).
FWIW - why is it human nature? I would argue that living things that were driven to adapt and overcome adversity are the ones that statistically were more likely to survive to pass on their genes. To put it another way, those who won the competition for food (energy) and mates became our ancestors.
Under this paradigm, it makes sense that we would have inherited this genetic predisposition to “compete”.
“If you look at a lot of sports, it is pretty easy to imagine how it got started…. eventually we ran out of practical (or even impractical) things to compete in so we had to invent completely arbitrary games” ODO
Exactly. To quote a line from a movie, in our society, “everything is a copy of a copy”. Just as we (many of us) have removed ourselves from nature, so we have removed ourselves from the original purpose of competition. We invent “games” (or become investment bankers;)) to give an outlet/expression for our inate drive to overcome obstacles. Record breaking and winning “games” are just abstract goals that replace/stand in for the original, basic goal: survival/successful reproduction.
“for me , it’s when I’m out of my comfort zone that I’m really alive I accept the inevitability of my death” HB
I expect that many of us feel exactly the same way. Perhaps it is because we “feel” most alive when we are engaged in activities and circumstances that are most in line with the original, nature-based conditions that our animal ancestors had to survive in? Just a thought….
“I often find myself asking the reverse of your question- Why do people refuse to make their lives better?” JB
Perhaps in a sense they are making their lives “better”, just not in a way that you are. I would suggest that unlike solitary animals that succeed or fail based on their individual abilities and effort, humans, as a social animal, may have adapted a second way of “survival”. In our social world, some will continue to “obey” the genetic predisposition to compete – putting their energy towards striving to be “better”, to put it in your terms. Others may have adapted the strategy of “conservation of energy”, and simply “play the system” for their survival. Which adaptive path we “chose” will depend on the social situation we find ourselves in and/or our past experiences.
In order to break a so called record, someone has to be the official record keeper. This record keeper should verify any claimed record and record all the data. I don't believe that hiking has such a person. At least I never heard of one.
that level is different for every one of us.
for me , its when im out of my comfort zone that im really alive.i accept the inevitability of my death, so im not afraid of it. and id much rather die doing something i love,than sitting at home holding my remote control.when i was younger, i would push myself rock climbing.i would take fall after fall trying to master a move. and when i finally stuck it, it felt pretty darn good.this spring, when i was hiking through an ice storm,branches falling around me,i remember thinking"i could die out here", and then smiling , thinking"then i'll die happy."
im no record setter, but ive always looked for trails that would challenge me and my skills.its very satisfying to push through that "this really sucks" moment and see whats on the other side.
I see we indulge in the same drugs. I read this written on the wall in the delapidated Fire Lookout Tower on Parkview in Colorado when on the CDT "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room." Spoke to me. If something isn't worth dying for I question the usefulness of it. Facing death or serious injury or rejection or failure is crucial to my life. I need it regularly. I thrive off it. Mediocrity or that idea that says "all things in moderation" is like a stench in my nostrils that I abhor. Settling for mediocrity is the enemy of greatness. I want to experience greatness.
In order to break a so called record, someone has to be the official record keeper. This record keeper should verify any claimed record and record all the data. I don't believe that hiking has such a person. At least I never heard of one.
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