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Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 10:09
Simple Question:

I hate shelters, I like Shelter locations...I have seen people do it, I have not but would like to in the future.

Can I tent camp on the AT, at shelter sights, and not get penalized. I have seen people tent at Mollies Ridge and they were quick to leave the next morning and sure enough a ridgerunner(a rude one) came along with his gripes.

I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught"

I would not necarily be apposed to ghost camping but I would like the security of bear cables, fire rings and shelter conversation. The more info the better on this so please feel free to respond. No short stories lol

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 10:20
If shelters are full, you tent. You seem to want all the benefits of a shelter, without the shelter. Why was your post so important?

Slo-go'en
08-21-2013, 10:20
Yes, ridgerunners can be rude when they have to keep dealing with people who break the rules. Break the law if you wish, but if your caught, you could be fined and expelled from the park.

If you don't like shelters, then don't go to the Smokies or hike someplace other then on the AT. Its a big park with lots of tenting sites scattered around.

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 10:27
I dont like shelters because of the obvious reasons, And if it were up to alot of people there wouldnt be any shelters. They are a magnet for filth, party people mice rats which = snakes, bears and doomoss' lol

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 10:28
Yes, ridgerunners can be rude when they have to keep dealing with people who break the rules. Break the law if you wish, but if your caught, you could be fined and expelled from the park.

If you don't like shelters, then don't go to the Smokies or hike someplace other then on the AT. Its a big park with lots of tenting sites scattered around.


Did you answer any of my quesitons? NOPE! so either be proactive or dont post thanks

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 10:32
WOW seriously?!?

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 10:37
I dont see the issues here, It was a simple series of questions, I didnt recieve straight forward answers.

Slo-go'en
08-21-2013, 10:40
The question your asking is it alright to break the law and the answer is NO.

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 10:42
Tent where you want. Accept the consequences. Happy trails

max patch
08-21-2013, 10:49
The answer is NO you can not camp on the AT in the GSMNP.

One possible exception - if you hike during thru hiker season and the shelter is full you can camp in site of the shelter.

The fine is at the discretion of the judge. It legally can be as much as $5,000 and 6 months in jail. It won't be near that much for a first time offender.

Now some advice since I've answered your questions. If you are going to hike in the GSMNP get your permit and follow the rules. If you hate shelters and rules do as I do - don't hike in the park. You have 2,100 other miles to choose from.

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 10:50
No you ignorant old man! My question was not:"Is it okay to break the law!" Did it say that? Nope! MY Exact words, If you can read is :"I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught" What are the Real rules?! I have only heard from other people, not read it in the regulations of the smokies.

It is hard to not get a crotchety ass resonse on this damn site, every body wants to act like a know it all smartass.

Go take a long walk
Off of a short peir.

Slo-go'en
08-21-2013, 11:07
No matter the exact wording of your question, the implication is you want to fluant the regulations, given your statement about not liking shelters.

I belive the regulations are spelled out pretty clearly on the web site. You must stay at designated sites and if that is on the AT, you must stay in a shelter. With one expection - if you are a thru-hiker (having started at least 50 miles outside the park) and the shelter is full of people with reservations, then you can tent near-by in the poop zone.

Maybe you should call the park and ask the question exactly as you asked it here and see what they have to say....

Oh, when you go to pay for your reservations, there is quite a lengthy list of rules and regulations your suppost to read and then when you pay, you have aggreed to follow those rules and regulations.

Sandy of PA
08-21-2013, 11:09
The rules are available to all on the Smokies National Park website, please feel free to read them there.

RED-DOG
08-21-2013, 11:17
All you have to do is go on the GSMNP website and you will find out all the Rules and Regulations concerning the Park.

Sly
08-21-2013, 11:17
No you ignorant old man! My question was not:"Is it okay to break the law!" Did it say that? Nope! MY Exact words, If you can read is :"I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught" What are the Real rules?! I have only heard from other people, not read it in the regulations of the smokies.

It is hard to not get a crotchety ass resonse on this damn site, every body wants to act like a know it all smartass.

Go take a long walk
Off of a short peir.

It's apparently not hard to give one (smart ass response) either.

Here's the short answer. No camping at shelters unless they're full and you're a thru-hiker (start/end 50 miles outside the park).

Double Wide
08-21-2013, 11:22
Ok. Pretty sure the OP knows the rules.

His question seems to be more along the lines of "What happens if I get caught breaking them?" with the hope that the rules, like the Pirate Code, are more like "guidelines".

bfayer
08-21-2013, 11:27
Where's the bridge, I smell a troll.

MkBibble
08-21-2013, 11:34
No you ignorant old man! ... Go take a long walk Off of a short peir. *Pier And, http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm "...Please direct questions concerning backpacking trip planning to the Backcountry Information Office at (865) 436-1297... Failure to abide by park regulations may subject you to a fine under Title 36, Code of Federal Regulations. Maximum fine for each violation is $5,000 and/or 6 months in jail." http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-regs.htm "... Reservations and permits are required for all overnight stays in the backcountry. To make reservations, please visit the backcountry reservation website (https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=1)... 7. Backcountry permit holders may not use tents at shelters." You're welcome, Another Old Man

Edro
08-21-2013, 11:38
hummm.. i think i get it... if you dont get the answer you want to your question ..... get pissed?
Just when i thought i had figured this place out too..

canoe
08-21-2013, 11:41
Where's the bridge, I smell a troll. You think. LOL Nobody talks like that right off the bat unless they are fishing.

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 11:42
1. Camping is permitted only at designated backcountry campsites and shelters.


7. Backcountry permit holders may not use tents at shelters.

8. Hammocks may only be used within designated backcountry campsites. They may not be used inside shelters and may not be attached to shelters in any way.

Thanks to all for the help.

Now to my next Question:

Why cant people Tent camp? It seems harmless as building a bigace shack in the woods to me :/

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 11:45
You think. LOL Nobody talks like that right off the bat unless they are fishing.


Believe what you wish, Why would I waste my time screwing around trying to piss people off on the internet, Im trying to get straight forward answers.

The Ace
08-21-2013, 11:48
Believe what you wish, Why would I waste my time screwing around trying to piss people off on the internet, Im trying to get straight forward answers.

Straight forward answer to your above question: I do not know, but you did.

The Ace
08-21-2013, 11:55
No you ignorant old man! My question was not:"Is it okay to break the law!" Did it say that? Nope! MY Exact words, If you can read is :"I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught" What are the Real rules?! I have only heard from other people, not read it in the regulations of the smokies.

It is hard to not get a crotchety ass resonse on this damn site, every body wants to act like a know it all smartass.

Go take a long walk
Off of a short peir.

This one is a double:


23595

(And, no Hiker Mom, this one is not directed at you, either. :))

MkBibble
08-21-2013, 11:55
Keeping everybody in a shelter limits the damage to a very small area.

illabelle
08-21-2013, 11:59
Now to my next Question: Why cant people Tent camp? It seems harmless as building a bigace shack in the woods to me :/

This is the way that the Park Service has chosen to interpret and implement LNT (Leave No Trace) principles. Yes, the shelter is an impact to the environment, but it's limited. If they can concentrate users into the shelter, their impact is reduced as compared to tents spread out all over the place. The Smokies are a high-use area. Other national parks or forests with lower use may choose to interpret and implement differently.
http://lnt.org/learn/7-principles

On another topic, some on WB can come across as rude or know-it-all or whatever, whether they mean to or not. Most often it's not intentional. Responding in kind is not helpful.

canoe
08-21-2013, 12:03
Believe what you wish, Why would I waste my time screwing around trying to piss people off on the internet, Im trying to get straight forward answers.

Not sure WHY. But you are doing a good job of pissing people off.

yaduck9
08-21-2013, 12:08
Believe what you wish, Why would I waste my time screwing around trying to piss people off on the internet, Im trying to get straight forward answers.


I suggest that you try the "straight forward" forum.

Drybones
08-21-2013, 12:43
[QUOTE=Slo-go'en;1519602]Yes, ridgerunners can be rude when they have to keep dealing with people who break the rules

Or........ they could just be a** hol*s on a power trip.

bfayer
08-21-2013, 12:48
You think. LOL Nobody talks like that right off the bat unless they are fishing.

I use some highly sophisticated surplus soviet era equipment to identify these folks. Not always 100% accurate but it works for me :)


23597

For the OP: Troll is a curable condition, just treat people with a little respect and step away from the attitude. Folks are entitled to their opinion and most folks on here will be more than helpful if given half a chance.

Drybones
08-21-2013, 12:48
hummm.. i think i get it... if you dont get the answer you want to your question ..... get pissed?
Just when i thought i had figured this place out too..

You'll never figure this place out.

Drybones
08-21-2013, 12:52
No you ignorant old man! My question was not:"Is it okay to break the law!" Did it say that? Nope! MY Exact words, If you can read is :"I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught" What are the Real rules?! I have only heard from other people, not read it in the regulations of the smokies.

It is hard to not get a crotchety ass resonse on this damn site, every body wants to act like a know it all smartass.

Go take a long walk
Off of a short peir.

Please specify which ignorant old man.........

Gray Blazer
08-21-2013, 12:54
Did you answer any of my quesitons? NOPE! so either be proactive or dont post thanks

What's wrong with answering a quesiton with another quesiton? Here's a clue. Even a simple quesiton has a (?) at the end for punctuation. Right?

To the point. The hikers I was with gave me the dirtiest looks when I announced I was gonna set up my tent. Call me a sheeple. They were prolly sorry when I was snoring.

Slo-go'en
08-21-2013, 13:14
[QUOTE=Slo-go'en;1519602]Yes, ridgerunners can be rude when they have to keep dealing with people who break the rules

Or........ they could just be a** hol*s on a power trip.

Having worked a number of seasons as a caretaker in busy locations in both the Green and White Mountains, I can appreciate what a ridgerunner has to deal with. Trying to get people to follow the rules is not a power trip, it's thier job. I've had to deal with a number of people who thought that the rules don't apply to them for some reason. Talk about A hol*s...

jburgasser
08-21-2013, 13:34
Why cant people Tent camp?

Smoky Mountain Nat'l Park is the most visited park in the entire country; more than Yosemite, more than Yellowstone, more than the Grand Canyon. I believe the intent to keep people from using tents is to limit the number of people in the backcountry at a given time. I think it is the hope of those in charge that in 100 years the Smokies will look and feel and smell the same as today. If hikers are allowed to camp at any clearing or even around an empty shelter, a lot of fragile and diverse plant life will get trampled, smushed, generally affected.
The rules as I understand them: On the A.T. in GSMNP - section hikers must first reserve shelters through the park website and get a backcountry permit through the same website. You must print both your permit and your itinerary which shows which shelter you are at each night and carry them with you to show the ridgerunners when you get to your shelter(s). I did 2 nights in May and had a ridgerunner at our shelter the 1st night. You must only stay at that shelter that night, then move on the next day. Each shelter has 3 spots for thru hikers. Thru hikers do not need an itinerary or reservation. If you show up at your shelter and it is full of thru hikers and other sectioners that have reservations, the thru hikers are obligated to move to outside of the shelter to make space for you. As a section hiker, you are required to only stay in the shelter, you are not allowed to sleep on the ground outside of the shelter. During the reservation process when you select a shelter it will tell you immediately if there is not enough room (ie: full). So the shelter, on paper anyway, will never be full to capacity with section hikers when you get there - if everyone is following the rules.
To be considered a thru hiker you must start and finish your hike 50 miles to the south and 50 miles to the north of the park. Thru hikers are required to sleep in the shelter unless it is full and another section hiker with a reservation shows up. Only then can a thru hiker move out to the ground.

There are miles of trails in the Smokies that can get you from Fontana to Davenport, or vice-versa, allowing you to hike without the strict regulations that hiking the A.T. presents. In short, the rules are in place, I believe, to keep the Smokies a place of natural wonderment and beauty for our children, their children, and even their children, God willing.

Truly, Ickybod

tawa
08-21-2013, 15:17
Simple Question:

I hate shelters, I like Shelter locations...I have seen people do it, I have not but would like to in the future.

Can I tent camp on the AT, at shelter sights, and not get penalized. I have seen people tent at Mollies Ridge and they were quick to leave the next morning and sure enough a ridgerunner(a rude one) came along with his gripes.

I would like to know what the real rules are here as far as the park goes, and what the penalty is if "caught"

I would not necarily be apposed to ghost camping but I would like the security of bear cables, fire rings and shelter conversation. The more info the better on this so please feel free to respond. No short stories lol

Are u asking us if its ok to break the law!? Why don't u just do what is asked of you and not try and see if u can beat the system.

HooKooDooKu
08-21-2013, 16:18
No you ignorant old man! My question was not:"Is it okay to break the law!" Did it say that?
I believe you're getting people pissed off because the tone of your question implies (and almost flat-out states) your willingness to break the rules.

1. The tone of your question that includes asking what the penalties are implies that you are weighing the risks of camping illegally.
2. Your statement that you are willing to 'ghost camp' pretty much flat-out states your willingness to break the rules.

The Ace
08-21-2013, 16:39
Can this thread be closed now? The question has been answered and both my palm and forehead are starting to get severely bruised.

Drybones
08-21-2013, 16:40
[QUOTE=Drybones;1519691]

Having worked a number of seasons as a caretaker in busy locations in both the Green and White Mountains, I can appreciate what a ridgerunner has to deal with. Trying to get people to follow the rules is not a power trip, it's thier job. I've had to deal with a number of people who thought that the rules don't apply to them for some reason. Talk about A hol*s...

I'm not disagreeing with your point about some hikers being a problem, I am saying that there are some people with a badge that think the badge makes them feel like Matt Dillon, I've met a few, dont read this to mean I'm anti-authority, I'm not, just saying there are jerks in all secments of society....and good one as well. BTW....having to deal with an occassional problem person is a piss poor excuse for acting rude to another...every waitress and customer service person in the world has to do that... and keep smiling.......change jobs if you cant.

rocketsocks
08-21-2013, 16:43
I use some highly sophisticated surplus soviet era equipment to identify these folks. Not always 100% accurate but it works for me :)


23597

For the OP: Troll is a curable condition, just treat people with a little respect and step away from the attitude. Folks are entitled to their opinion and most folks on here will be more than helpful if given half a chance.
Yeah really, if this were an altimeter, my advice would be..."bring it down a thousand" :)

Plodderman
08-21-2013, 17:04
No tenting in the Smokies except on approved sites for camping.

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 17:04
I doubt I'm the only one that reported post #11, I'm sure a moderator will be along in due time.

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 17:13
lol close this thread, I am saying that and I started it. Never ment to step on toes, And if you are calling ME a troll...there were no grey or underlying messages in my question...I did not know if tenting in the smokies was frowned upon, or against the law. And all it would have taken was the first guy to respond to say;

"Gambit it is against the law, here is the link to the GSMNP backcountry regulations", and that would have been the end of it. But instead, look at all this time wasted on everyone flogging the point of trying to decifer what was really ment.

I call you ignorent because your more willing to spend time "facepalming" and "rollmetering" then you are to get straight to the point, and nip the questions in the bud.

Thank you to the ones like jburgasser and a few earlier that gave ligitimate answers. To the rest, get off the internet, and take a hike.

max patch
08-21-2013, 17:14
I doubt I'm the only one that reported post #11, I'm sure a moderator will be along in due time.

I reported his spelling to his English teacher.

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 17:19
Mine was the first response. I answered your question. You escalated things

Gambit McCrae
08-21-2013, 17:29
lol hill ape funny thing is i had ignore YOUR response through out this intire thread, not one time did i reference or direct action toward you. My comments were directed at the post#3 :)

And for an engineer my English teacher is very proud of me thank you very much

jj2044
08-21-2013, 17:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JlzkiKbCE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JlzkiKbCE

canoe
08-21-2013, 17:32
lol close this thread, .

I call you ignorent because your more willing to spend time "facepalming" and "rollmetering" then you are to get straight to the point, and nip the questions in the bud.

Thank you to the ones like jburgasser and a few earlier that gave ligitimate answers. To the rest, get off the internet, and take a hike.

WHoa bro... you need to ween yourself off of that 5hour energy, calm down, and show a little respect to some very experianced hikers. You are not making any friends here.

hikerboy57
08-21-2013, 17:35
mutual disrespect. the internet is a wonderful thing.

Rasty
08-21-2013, 17:36
Any responses to your hooking up thread?

hikerboy57
08-21-2013, 17:50
Any responses to your hooking up thread?
trail name-- dale carnegie

bfayer
08-21-2013, 18:12
trail name-- dale carnegie

And for the people that understand that one, that makes you officially old (Like me) :)

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 18:26
And for the people that understand that one, that makes you officially old (Like me) :)

How to make friends and influence people. See, you don't have to be a crotchety ignorent old man to get that. Intirely

hikerboy57
08-21-2013, 18:27
How to make friends and influence people. See, you don't have to be a crotchety ignorent old man to get that. Intirely
you're older than your years

hikerboy57
08-21-2013, 18:28
And for the people that understand that one, that makes you officially old (Like me) :)
i think they interviewed him on the dick cavett show

Hill Ape
08-21-2013, 18:37
you're older than your years

Yeah, my son used to count my grey hairs, then I grew my beard out. He told me he can't count that high and that means I'm old now. My beard went solid grey in my 20s

Mags
08-21-2013, 20:41
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGxoes1p9C9Wa5Rdio4XXsOj7LvCLdH S7nqfNzMR8g94YY0Kv1rw

Don't feed the trolls folks. Best way to make them go away.

And since the OP asked the thread to be closed. There it is...