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View Full Version : White Blazes from Sam's Gap to Erwin TN



Juneau
08-21-2013, 20:25
Will someone please tell me how well the trail is marked from Sam's Gap to Erwin Tenn. I plan to hike it alone and it is very important to me. Two weeks ago I hiked from Devil's Fork to Allen Gap. The trail was so poorly marked in so many sections of the trail I could not tell if I was still on the trail or lost on a pig path through the woods. A very scary situation for a lone hiker.

Astro
08-21-2013, 21:28
I had no problems with the blazes there in July.

chiefiepoo
08-21-2013, 23:03
Broaden your view beyond looking up for blazes. Look wider and ahead to view the tread of the trail as it moves through the surrounding terrain. Lots of boot prints have traversed the path you are about ti walk. They leave trace that contrasts with surroundings. Have confidence, you'll learn as you go.

peakbagger
08-22-2013, 07:38
Not sure if you aware of the blazing standards generally used on the AT but good blazing tends to be far more stretched out than most folks expect. Generally if you can see one blaze from another, the blazing is too close. On straight flat level trail, the blazing could be as much as 1/4 of a mile apart. Generally where the trail has many intersecting trails, the blazing will be closer and in areas where the trail diverges off a more established route, its going to be heavily blazed. Of course heavy blazing is not going to help someone who always look at their feet while hiking or those list in thought. After awhile most folks get in tune with the trail and it pretty easy to follow the trail without paying attention

Gray Blazer
08-22-2013, 07:51
Funny you mention it. Right before Erwin, the trail goes up Temple
Hill a little. I missed the blaze and started downhill. The dirt berms clued me in to my mistake. Otherwise I've never had a problem.

Juneau
08-22-2013, 08:09
Yes I watch the trail with every step I take and it is a reassuring to look up and see a white blaze. I love to back pack but care nothing about getting lost or wasting my time finding the trail. I disagree, trails should be well marked! The Allen Gap trail apparently did not meet AT standards. Twice I came up to a double blaze with none of three options of the trail providing an apparent blaze on which direction to continue. That is scary stuff for a lone hiker. I want to continue the trail to Erwin TN but care nothing about re-experiencing the situation of two weeks ago. Thank you for your advise. I will use it on my next hike.

Tennessee Viking
08-22-2013, 08:12
I never had any troubles with the blazes around Camp Creek, Shelton Graves, Devils Fork Gap, and up the ridge to Sams Gap. There are a lot of old logging roads and ORV trails around the trail. But the trail is pretty obvious and worn. There are blazes on the rocks and signs on the exposed trail and blazed posts in the open areas. Throw Cleaner a PM, he helps maintain some the trail around that area and can forward the info to CMC.

But Sams Gap to Erwin is well marked. There is a blue blazed trail for a bad weather route. An old road. And side paths to some of the houses. But very obvious.

Further on, Beauty Spot is only marked by white tipped metal posts.

Juneau
08-22-2013, 08:13
I'll build confidence because I love to back pack. I just do not want my confidence building to include being lost in the middle of no where for several days.

10-K
08-22-2013, 08:25
No problem at all between Sam's Gap and Erwin. When you get to Spivey Gap the trail forks and another trail goes about 50 or so feet.

The left fork is the AT. The right fork goes to the little parking area. If you take the right fork by mistake the AT is uphill, on the right, about 30 or so yards - it's a set of steps.

FWIW, the times I've got turned around were when I was just having an off day and "not on my game". When that happens I just pay more attention and focus.

Kerosene
08-22-2013, 08:26
Don't be Scared about poor blazing as much as Prepared:

Prepared to get lost, and not panic when you do so.
Prepared to sit and think about how you might have gotten off track and not blindly react
Prepared to feel frustrated that you just wasted time and energy, but oh well
Prepared with a map and direction-finding ability so you can try to figure out where you are
Prepared to setup camp somewhere in the woods should you not be able to find your way back
Prepared to treat yourself should you get injured


Remember that the AT really isn't a wilderness trail; some form of civilization is almost always within a few miles of the official path. You may need to bushwhack to get to a road (which is where a map can help so you don't step off a cliff), but it's not the end of the world unless you severely injure yourself while doing so.

I've probably hiked a thousand miles by myself. I've gotten lost a few times, but never for very long. I've certainly gotten frustrated a lot, even when I'm pretty sure I'm on the AT but the blazing is non-existent for over a mile (e.g., AT north of Pinkham Notch). I've followed experienced thru-hikers down the wrong path a few times! I've night-hiked twice, which is probably "scarier" but exhilarating; it's amazing how obvious the trail is at night, in that there are no weeds in the middle of the trail, but you do have to be careful about subtle turns and intersecting trails.

Have fun, and just realize that poor blazing is part of the outdoor experience. If you're prepared you should be able to be self-sufficient for a few days at least.

Magic_Mack
08-22-2013, 08:29
Just tore my meniscus coming off little hump mtn this past weekend. Blazes are fine in that area.

Venchka
08-22-2013, 08:53
I'll build confidence because I love to back pack. I just do not want my confidence building to include being lost in the middle of no where for several days.

Kerosene beat me to it. Map. Compass. Learn how to use both. You won't need the blazes. Except for periodic confirmation that your map and compass skills are working.
If you master using a map and compass, you will be ready to go backpacking in the Rocky Mountains where blazes (if there are any) are few and far between. Major junctions sometimes have signs. Otherwise, you navigate on your own.
I also doubt that you could be lost for several days in the vicinity of the AT. You aren't in the Middle of Nowhere. Roads and towns are too close together to be lost for that length of time.
Good luck! Have fun!

Wayne

moldy
08-22-2013, 09:07
I love this post. Do you club weenies see that some hiker has worries and needs information? They are not worried about water conditions, weather conditions, bears or any of the usual things. The OP is wondering how well the trail is marked. He or she wonders if this area is one of the areas that a club has decided to poorly blaze? This is a sad state of affairs. Gee, I wonder if we have a Blazing problem that needs to be addressed? Perhaps we should call on "The Outlaw Blazer"?

Hill Ape
08-22-2013, 09:16
Perhaps we should all hike with a bucket of paint. And a paintbrush. Be a part of the solution. Be the change we want to see in the world. If we walk a mile with no blazes, volunteer to blaze that mile.

Venchka
08-22-2013, 09:16
I love this post. Do you club weenies see that some hiker has worries and needs information? They are not worried about water conditions, weather conditions, bears or any of the usual things. The OP is wondering how well the trail is marked. He or she wonders if this area is one of the areas that a club has decided to poorly blaze? This is a sad state of affairs. Gee, I wonder if we have a Blazing problem that needs to be addressed? Perhaps we should call on "The Outlaw Blazer"?

Aye! And limit access to the AT. 3 consecutive days on the Trail. Maximum!
Backpacking implies, actually requires, a moderate amount of self-sufficiency. Route finding is one of the requirements. Perhaps the AT Clubs should string rope from blaze to blaze?
Frankly, I would prefer to find my own way. I am probably a minority of one.

Wayne

hikerboy57
08-22-2013, 09:36
just pay attention.
if not, follow kerosenes advice.

Gray Blazer
08-22-2013, 09:51
Is this better?

23610

Kerosene
08-22-2013, 09:59
For me, it's not necessarily the amount of blazing but the consistency. If you're walking along with a blaze every 300 feet and then suddenly they peter out, then that increases anxiety. I don't want every switchback to be double-blazed if there is no obvious alternative, but I do want it to be clear where I should go when I get to any sort of intersection. There is a well-published standard for AT blazing, but the interpretation and execution varies between maintainers and clubs. Unless you have blazing experience or guidance, taking the problem into your own hands isn't necessarily a good thing. Then again, I really appreciate it when someone leaves a clarifying mark, such as an AT arrow at a key turn missing a blaze, or a brush pile to keep you from inadvertantly walking down a side trail/woods road straight ahead.

Nooga
08-22-2013, 10:17
I've hiked the southern AT a number of times and the only times I'm really careful is when the trail is following a forest service road. It is easy to blow past the point where the trail diverts off the road. Thankfully, someone has usually marked the spot with branches or marked AT direction in the road. I agree with Kerosene's post that blazing consistency is a key factor.

10-K
08-22-2013, 10:52
For me, it's not necessarily the amount of blazing but the consistency. If you're walking along with a blaze every 300 feet and then suddenly they peter out, then that increases anxiety.

You do not ever want to hike the Sheltowee Trace trail.... Blazes start and stop randomly and it has consistency issues from start to finish. After a while you sort of get used to it and realize that as long as you're on some trail you're not 'lost-lost' - you just may be hiking into nowhere. :)

Seatbelt
08-22-2013, 11:48
The only potential problem I can remember hiking this stretch was at the north base of Big Bald where other trails cross. Just remember to go uphill and you will be fine. If you have fog, the trail around the high rocks is kinda tricky.

moldy
08-22-2013, 12:05
On one hand Kerosene offers great advice, sort of like in that Clint Eastwood movie" the un-forgiven", where he says" who owns this establishment"? Then shoots the saloon keeper. Gene Hackman says "you just shot an unarmed man". To that Eastwood say's, "he should have armed himself"! So, when it comes to the trail, arm yourself...with a map that is. On the other hand, the clubs and other interested entities along the trail have been reducing the blazing on purpose. In Southern Virginia I also noticed that they are altering the color of the blazes by mixing light blue or green paint. They think that overblazing is unsightly and unnecessary so they send out maintainers fix the problem. Over zealous people go to far. It's worse in the North. Each club ignores the established guidelines in there own way by the leeway granted by the ATC. Rather than hard and fast rules they have loose language. If we had hard and fast rules that the clubs followed the problem would go away. What is a "wilderness area" anyway? The clubs won't even acknowledge that it is a problem and there answer "we don't need no stink'in blazes" Davy Crockett didn't need them. To that, I say, What about the missing Hiker in Maine?

Slo-go'en
08-22-2013, 12:49
It does take some experiance to learn the "feel" of the trail. Once you learn this, if you do wander off the trail it shouldn't take too long to notice that the path your on no longer "feels" right. Such as it's not as well trodden, it's gotten too narrow, there's too much forest litter on it and you suddenly realise you haven't seen a blaze in a while.

At this point you need to turn around and go back the way you came. It might happen that you are still on the AT and by turning around, you see a blaze. More likey, you'll have to keep going until you find where the trail went one way and you went another.

This happend to me once in Virginia. The trail was following an old woods road along the top of the ridge. At one point the road started to drop off the ridge, but the trail continued straight. However, I did not notice this and continued down the old road. About 100 yards later I realised something didn't seem right so I turned around. Back at the top of the ridge, I saw where the trail left the road was obscured by some brush, along with the blaze on the tree next to it. At that point I took out my trusty Buck knife and cut back the brush so anyone following would not have the same problem.

Later that day another hiker caught up to me while I was eating a snack. This suprised me as he had left well before me in the morning, so I asked how he got behind me. It turns out he made the same mistake I did, but walked a good mile down that road before he noticed something was wrong!

Another trickly part can be at road crossings. Sometimes the trail does not continue directly across the road, but takes a little jog one way or the other. I've run across a few road crossing where I had to look around to find where the trail went back into the woods. Sometimes brush will grow in which obscures the trail crossing, which can be a problem in late summer.

Anyway, the Sams gap to Erwin is an obvious, well trodden and well blazed path, you should have no trouble there.

Juneau
08-22-2013, 17:05
For several years I was a member of a mountainous county recue squad. We had the job of searching, finding and sometime carrying out injured lost hikers from our wilderness areas. Of the many we helped, I don't remember one saying it was a fun experience and he/she was looking forward to doing it again. Everyone who backpacks hikes at his/her unique skill level. Regardless at what level one hikes, it should be an enjoyable and rewarding experience. Getting lost is no fun. A well marked trail is still the best prevention of someone getting lost, injured or worse. Yes, we also carried out the bodies of those who did not survive.

Juneau
08-22-2013, 17:09
Thank you for you good advise and a straight answer.

winger
08-22-2013, 17:30
Map and compass.

10-K
08-22-2013, 17:36
If you really need a navigational aid on the AT a GPS would be a better choice than a map and compass IMO.

With a GPS you can see exactly where the trail is in relation to where you are standing - well... at least better than you can figure out with a M&C.

Note that I'm not saying a GPS is *better* than a M&C - just that they are different tools and a GPS is superior for a quick "YOU ARE HERE" fix.

I can read a topo map and use it with a compass pretty handily but I tend to rely on my GPS. But generally only take a map on the AT and that's so I know where bailout points and what not are moreso than worried about getting lost.

The Cleaner
08-22-2013, 18:49
I never had any troubles with the blazes around Camp Creek, Shelton Graves, Devils Fork Gap, and up the ridge to Sams Gap. There are a lot of old logging roads and ORV trails around the trail. But the trail is pretty obvious and worn. There are blazes on the rocks and signs on the exposed trail and blazed posts in the open areas. Throw Cleaner a PM, he helps maintain some the trail around that area and can forward the info to CMC.

But Sams Gap to Erwin is well marked. There is a blue blazed trail for a bad weather route. An old road. And side paths to some of the houses. But very obvious.

Further on, Beauty Spot is only marked by white tipped metal posts. I don't know exactly what area you were confused at but for some reason this is one of the biggest complaints I get from passing hikers. When I speak with hikers and tell them I do a little maintenance work on this section several tell of going wrong here, missing turn, ect., I always thought this to be an easy section to find your way because all most all of it is ridgetop travel. I did a quick touch up job, early this spring, to almost all white blazes at almost all trail intersection,from Log Cabin Rd., till just beyond Jerry's Cabin shelter. Beyond that when heading south, one could get confused when the AT leaves the old jeep road at the north end of the field about 3/4 mile past the shelter. The reroute takes you off the road and onto the "new" AT which zig-zags across the jeep road 3 times and them dumps you back on to the jeep road which the AT follows till just above Flint Gap. I always take the old road and usually tell hikers to do also to avoid any confusion....

10-K
08-22-2013, 21:31
I always take the old road and usually tell hikers to do also to avoid any confusion....

Definitely the way to do it. It's a lot simpler but you can understand why a hiker wouldn't take the suggestion of getting off the trail and following an old road from a stranger..... :)

MuddyWaters
08-22-2013, 22:42
with a little hiking, you will develop a feel for where the trail goes, even when there doesnt appear to be a trail.

visual clues that will tell you which way the trail goes even without blazes, or without you thinking about them. Things that just dont look totally natural. Its normal to be a bit paranoid about getting lost at first, but it goes away.

Wilderness area regulations pretty much prohibit blazing, so its really minimal in some places.
There are places where you dont see blazes for what seems like miles. But curiously enough, you do see drips of white paint on the rocks on the trail.

Also if you arent seeing blazes, look behind you at the OTHER side of the trees from time to time.

Tennessee Viking
08-23-2013, 01:42
I don't know exactly what area you were confused at but for some reason this is one of the biggest complaints I get from passing hikers. When I speak with hikers and tell them I do a little maintenance work on this section several tell of going wrong here, missing turn, ect., I always thought this to be an easy section to find your way because all most all of it is ridgetop travel. I did a quick touch up job, early this spring, to almost all white blazes at almost all trail intersection,from Log Cabin Rd., till just beyond Jerry's Cabin shelter. Beyond that when heading south, one could get confused when the AT leaves the old jeep road at the north end of the field about 3/4 mile past the shelter. The reroute takes you off the road and onto the "new" AT which zig-zags across the jeep road 3 times and them dumps you back on to the jeep road which the AT follows till just above Flint Gap. I always take the old road and usually tell hikers to do also to avoid any confusion....

I am wondering if the OP accidently took Jerry Miller, Fork Ridge, or the cliff trails.

Sly
08-23-2013, 02:34
Here you go, brand new guidebook and maps...


Fourteenth edition, 2013. Covers 300 miles from Damascus, Virginia, near the Tennessee line to the southern end of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park at Fontana Dam, North Carolina. Includes parts of the Cherokee and Pisgah national forests and the park. Includes four five-color topographic maps on two sheets, with elevation profiles (scale, 1:63,360), plus the five-color topographic map of the park (scale, 1:62,500) published by Trails Illustrated. 275 pages.

https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=60&compid=1