View Full Version : Alcohol stoves reconsidered
As I getting ready for a trip, here's why I am not taking an alcohol stove.
Re-thinking my personal use of the alcohol stove.
http://www.pmags.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pepsi_can_stove.jpg
When I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail back in the dark ages of 1998, it was just before lightweight gear became more mainstream. I had a large, 5500 cubic inch pack. Wore beautifully made leather boots that were heavy and very overkill for any well maintained trail. Boiled water in a stainless steel cook kit (http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/cookware/simple-cooking/alpine-2-pot-set/product). And my stove was a Whisperlite International. (http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/simple-cooking/whisperlite-international-2012/product)
http://pmags2.jzapin.com/gallery2/d/6296-2/aas.jpg
Summit Killington Peak (http://www.summitpost.org/killington-peak/154527) in 1997. Wooden hiking stick, old school Nalgene and a ginormous pack!
If one someone was to perform a straw poll on 1990s and early 2000s backpackers, esp those who were thru-hikers, Whisperlites would often be the stoves of choice.
A marvelous little device that was fairly durable, worked well and heated up water quickly. Though there were only have two settings (blast furnace and off!), veteran users were able to finagle a low flame and make a reasonable facsimile of a simmer.
http://www.pmags.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/msr-whisperlite.jpg
But these stoves had their downsides: A bit of a learning curve to use efficiently, relatively heavy overall, expensive, they can get sooty and were a bit overkill for what was often the simple act of boiling two-three cups of water during moderate, three-season backpacking weather.
In the past few years (perhaps around 2005 or so), canister stoves have replaced white gas stoves among main stream backpackers as the “go to” stove. Not to be confused with the one pound propane tank stoves (http://www.coleman.com/product/perfectflow-1-burner-propane-stove/2000010642?contextCategory=2005#.UhZzoJK39ic), these backpacking canisters stoves are quite compact and light. The typical backpacking canister stove is only around 3 oz, relatively inexpensive (~$35 for an MSR Pocket Rocket as of 2013), easy to use, efficient and the fuel canisters can be obtained in many places: Outdoor stores, hardware stores in outdoor areas and evenWally Worlds (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Butane-Propane-Mix-Fuel/20595064). Different brands of canisters are interchangeable on different brands of stoves, too. (As long as they use the Lindal valve for canisters. As most newer stoves do (http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm#CanisterTypes))
http://www.pmags.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/coleman-f1.jpg
If a person wants even more efficiency and “oomph” if mainly boiling water (if with a price and weight penalty), the Jet Boil (http://www.rei.com/product/813621/jetboil-sol-titanium-stove) and MSR Reactor (http://www.rei.com/product/736977/msr-reactor-stove-system) stove systems really crank out the heat while still using the same canisters as the other canister stoves.
Learning to use a white gas backpacking stove used to be a rite of passage for most backpackers: The fine art of pumping the canister, filling the fuel cup just so, lighting the fuel, let the flame die down, open the fuel valve, ignite the gas, perhaps give another pump or two or three and then have a nice blue flame. If done correctly, a backpacker would have a hot meal in minutes. If done wrong? Well…more than a few of us burnt some hair on our knuckles while learning to use the stove correctly. :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/BLU-82_Daisy_Cutter_Fireball.JPG/800px-BLU-82_Daisy_Cutter_Fireball.JPG
A slightly exaggerated view of what a flaming Whisperlite may look like! http://www.pmags.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif (From Wiki Commons)
Today? Most backpackers, and outdoors people in general, would rather not futz with the procedure above and just screw the stove into the canister, turn on, light and go. Easy-Peasy/Mac-n-Cheesy. The stoves are so popular that many sub-$10 dollar (http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpacking-Canister-Ignition-silvery/dp/B004U8CP88/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t) canister stoves are now available similar to the more expensive models. The stoves seem to work well enough based on reviews.
White gas stoves are mainly used by those who winter backpack when snow must be melted and for large group use. Even in winter, inverted remote canister stoves (http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/gourmet-cooking/windpro-ii/product) are starting to be used in lieu of the traditional white gas stove. In a nut shell, the amount of white gas stove users seems to have declined steeply in the past decade.
Among long distance hikers and lightweight backpacking enthusiasts, another stove type has become popular in the past decade or so: Homemade alcohol stoves. Something as simple as a cat food can (http://andrewskurka.com/2011/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/) is able to be made into a piece of effective and inexpensive gear. These stoves will boil two-three cups of water in about five minutes or so, are lightweight (less than a half ounce) and works very well for the solo backpacker making ~10 meals or less between resupplies.
http://www.pmags.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pepsi_can_stove.jpg
Over the course of my hiking “career” , I have used various forms of alcohol stoves for many miles of hiking. The DIY gear, simplicity and frugality of acquiring the stove appealed to me.
But,I rarely use an alcohol stove any more. Here’s why:
Fire bans in Colorado (and the west in general). This PDF from a Colorado sherrif’s office specifically says (http://www.jcfpd.org/coburndefinitions.pdf) that stoves need an on/off valve and UL designation to be used during such bans. Alcohol stoves are out. A major fire was started by an alcohol stove user in Colorado (http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_20654312/) and many ranger districts have individual interpretations of the restrictions. Some offices are on record on saying yes to alcohol stoves beings allowed; some say no (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=78984). Though there have been debates about how alcohol stoves are allowed under these bans, I’d rather not deal with uncertainty and possible fines.
On solo trips and/or trips with long hiking days, I’d rather take no stove (http://www.pmags.com/going-stoveless-cold-food-for-thought). I find at the end of the day, I just want to eat and keep it simple. Even on shorter trips, esp when it is hot out, the simplicity of going without a stove is nice.
For social trips or casual trips in general, I started taking a canister stove because I often find myself heating up more water and spending more time in camp. Since I’m in a casual mode anyway, the sheer ease of the canister stove appeals to me. Not that an alcohol stove is hard to use by any means, but I found the canister stove to be easier. And when my wife and I backpack, I find the canister stove is easier to use for the two of us esp with a larger cook pot.
For winter trips? I am melting snow. An alcohol stove is not as efficient for this task IMO.
The end result is that in the past two seasons (see fire bans above!), I have only used an alcohol perhaps two or three times.
If I were to go on a long hike and absolutely wanted a stove, I suspect I’d take the alcohol stove. Even before I adopted going stoveless, I tended to only do one hot meal a day during longer trips (even when I did the Appalachian Trail). For longer trips into colder weather, I just may mail myself a cook pot and a an alcohol stove. A hot meal and a hot drink is undeniably psychologically satisfying at the end of the day during colder weather.
Now, these are just my personal preferences. :) I don’t claim this approach is the best for everyone, but it is best for my own style of backpacking and outdoors use. I have seen the more technical hikers (aka the spreadsheet hikers or, as I call them, The Excel Spreadsheet Brigade http://www.pmags.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif ) throw numbers around to prove that alcohol, Esbit or canister stoves are “the best” stove.
But numbers only tell part of the story.
For me, and again this is my own personal use, I find that an alcohol stove has less use in my kit. That does not mean that an alcohol stove will get no use at all for me, just a lot less use versus previous years. If 2014 proves to be a better wildfire season than the past two years, an alcohol stove may get broken out a little more often.
One small thing to add is the thrill of mistakenly cleaning the orifice on the Whisperlite while the stove is on. That is something you only do once.
You got me thinking. How do you know how much fuel is left in a canister? I am sure you could weigh it on a scale and compare to a virgin one, but that seems like a lot of work.
I'd probably end up carrying one canister too many, and that would impact my self-esteem even if I kept that a secret.
You got me thinking. How do you know how much fuel is left in a canister?
Experience..like anything else. :)
Use the canister on very low heat mode, and they last a while.
the goat
08-22-2013, 19:32
carried a whisperlite for a while, it was good for it's purpose (boiling water). I also found that i could deep fry pancakes in the morning (much oil needed so as not to torch the pancake) it ended up more like a johnny cake. however, i find that hiking stove-less is much easier, and far less frustrating these days.
Different Socks
08-22-2013, 19:34
I was amazed the first time I saw the ease of use of an alky stove, but........I 'll stick with my Whisperlite that's been with me for over 10,000 miles and in the shop only once for an overhaul.
Different Socks
08-22-2013, 19:35
I was amazed the first time I saw the ease of use of an alky stove, but........I 'll stick with my Whisperlite that's been with me for over 10,000 miles and in the shop only once for an overhaul.
BTW, for the most part, I've had no problems with my MSR stove.
I was amazed the first time I saw the ease of use of an alky stove, but........I 'll stick with my Whisperlite that's been with me for over 10,000 miles and in the shop only once for an overhaul.
BTW, for the most part, I've had no problems with my MSR stove.
Same here. Almost 20 years old and only of few o-rings replaced.
Wise Old Owl
08-22-2013, 21:00
Mags I do get it, but why is this important to you? Some folk just take both.. one is a backup. I am guessing for the last 5-10 trips most are on alcohol or a few diehards on pocket rocket... just curious.
Mags I do get it, but why is this important to you? Some folk just take both.. one is a backup. I am guessing for the last 5-10 trips most are on alcohol or a few diehards on pocket rocket... just curious.
Because it is good to share thoughts. To give other people ideas. To show there are multiple ways to do something rather than just one way. To get a discussion going.
If we did not share thoughts, ideas and suggestions, we'd still all be using canvas, leather and a primus stove.
:)
ps. Do you wear suspenders and a belt, too? ;)
Wise Old Owl
08-22-2013, 22:00
Uh..belt and suspenders.. both but not at the same time... the analogy is lost on fine men and professional clothiers...
13 years ago I managed a Men's Wearhouse, my wardrobe daily had a well managed mix. Some of my best customers were the local tv press and coaches in the NFL. A few mayors too. I spent a bit of money on a new wardrobe at one point... to show what I could do to excel ... Oh the CFO of Yungling was a customer..
I hung out with George Zimmer every year, just never played golf with him. He was cool, someone who I actually looked up to for his successes.
Another Kevin
08-22-2013, 22:04
You're a Western Real Hiker. I'm an Eastern clueless weekender.
I seldom if ever have to face a fire ban, so I go with alcohol in three seasons, white gas if I might not be able to find any water that isn't frozen. (And I suspect that you and I have similar definitions of "three seasons" - it isn't winter until you can't travel without crampons, snowshoes or skis, according to the snow conditions.)
I don't go stoveless. If I can't have coffee I'm not going. And lukewarm instant "iced" coffee - feh!
I may eventually try one of the wood-burners that are out there. I went hiking last winter with a guy who had one of Qi Wiz's titanium numbers. It looked pretty sweet. Particularly if it'll double as the pot stand and windscreen for the alcohol burner.
I also carry an ounce or so of other gubbins associated with the alcohol stove - a simmer ring (that works fairly well, actually, if I have the time I can do real rice), and a Fauxbaker (the disc doubles as a heat reflector under the stove if I'm not steam-baking). I do use a pressurized-jet stove, so life gets interesting if I overprime it.
I've been using alcohol for a long time. Back in the 1970s I did a fair amount of cooking on a Turmsport. All the disadvantages of white gas and alcohol in one convenient package.
Why do I get the feeling that I'm about 15 years behind the times?
Whisperlite back in 2000, pocket rocket now. Not sure how long the small canister will last me; guess I'll rough it if I run out of fuel. I'll only be quick boiling though.
Tuckahoe
08-22-2013, 23:17
I know this is one of those things discussed often, but the one issue I have with canister stoves is being able to know how much fuel you really have. I've never used one up completely on a trip and always bring a partially used can home. But I also never remember how many times its been used and the half used cans ends up in my box of hurricane supplies.
I use to have little interest in alcohol stoves, but the potential for an adjustable alcohol stove got me to take a second look. And while that idea doesnt seem to be realistic, I really got interested in multi-fuel stoves. I like the concept of a wood/alcohol/esbit stove and have found myself building one.
rocketsocks
08-22-2013, 23:46
You got me thinking. How do you know how much fuel is left in a canister? I am sure you could weigh it on a scale and compare to a virgin one, but that seems like a lot of work.
I'd probably end up carrying one canister too many, and that would impact my self-esteem even if I kept that a secret.
You could always weigh it, if you have one of these old scales layin around....I do.
23621
I can tell roughly how much fuel is left by shaking the canister. I haven't carried a backup canister since the first trip after I bought the thing, in 2002.
I do end up accumulating several mostly-empty canisters after a while. They go in the car camping pile.
In more than ten years of use, I've had canisters fail to light three times. Always in below-freezing weather, with partial canisters. My husband's theory is that the more volatile of the gases had been used up and the remaining, less-volatile gas wouldn't light. So in cold weather I bring either an alcohol stove or a white gas stove, depending in how much water I expect to be heating.
a quick question, with the cat can alcohol stove (shown in original thread post picture) I know a lot of people use HEET from the car section of the store. Can you use rubbing alcohol, the higher alcohol content one? Reason is, I use it to clean my skin of all things and this would be awesome if it can. I did consider doing an alcohol stove on my upcoming trip but was assured there are plenty of places to get fuel canisters for it (Seen as Walmarts everywhere).
Siestita
08-23-2013, 01:58
"a quick question, with the cat can alcohol stove (shown in original thread post picture) I know a lot of people use HEET from the car section of the store. Can you use rubbing alcohol, the higher alcohol content one?"
Use either Heet, OR one of its generic equivalents (also made from methol alcohol), OR the alcohol that sold in the paint departments of Walmart and also hardware stores. Sometimes labeled as "marine stove fuel", the later type may be a mixture of methol alcohol and ethyl alcohol.
It takes me a while to figure things out. I first burned alcohol using as my "stove" just a plain 8 oz. tuna fish can. Ignoring sound advise posted here on White Blaze, I starting out using the cheaper rubbing alcohol, which is only 70% alcohol (isopropyl). That burned poorly and left lots of water in the can after the flame burned out. Next, I tried burning 92% rubbing alcohol (also isopropyl, but diluted with less water), which I believe is primarily marketed for injection related sterilization purposes. That worked much better, being more flammable and not producing any liquid residue. But, it was very sooty. I quickly tired of getting sticky black grime on my gear and clothes. I can cook using 92% rubbing alcohol, but because of its soot these days it would be my "fuel of last resort."
Today, my "stove" remains a simple can, albeit now a tiny "Fancy Feast" cat food one. (I downsized because alcohol burned up much more quickly, producing more heat than needed, within my larger tuna can.) If my current "stove" were more complex, requiring liquid and/or vapors to pass through small openings, burning rubbing alcohol might clog it up.
garlic08
08-23-2013, 07:14
Because it is good to share thoughts. To give other people ideas. To show there are multiple ways to do something rather than just one way. To get a discussion going....
I wish someone had told me stoveless was an option about thirty years ago. On my early backpacking trips in the 80s, when the Svea was the pinnacle of stoves and the Whisperlite (neither of which is true) hadn't even hit the market, I often thought about going stoveless but never saw anyone doing it or talking about it, besides me. I was a lousy camp cook and got no pleasure from the warm, salty glop I produced. I finally met that guy on the PCT about ten years ago. He told me what he ate, how it worked, so I tried it and it made my hiking better.
It was about the same time I met people hiking in trail runners, using single-wall tents, counting out sheets of TP, etc, and smiling all the time. Exchanging ideas is a good thing. File it away and maybe someday it'll make some sense, and if it doesn't, that's OK. (I don't listen much to religious fanatics knocking at my door, but maybe they're onto something....)
Tri-Pod Bob
08-23-2013, 08:03
"a quick question, with the cat can alcohol stove (shown in original thread post picture) I know a lot of people use HEET from the car section of the store. Can you use rubbing alcohol, the higher alcohol content one?"
Use either Heet, OR one of its generic equivalents (also made from methol alcohol), OR the alcohol that sold in the paint departments of Walmart and also hardware stores. Sometimes labeled as "marine stove fuel", the later type may be a mixture of methol alcohol and ethyl alcohol.
It takes me a while to figure things out. I first burned alcohol using as my "stove" just a plain 8 oz. tuna fish can. Ignoring sound advise posted here on White Blaze, I starting out using the cheaper rubbing alcohol, which is only 70% alcohol (isopropyl). That burned poorly and left lots of water in the can after the flame burned out. Next, I tried burning 92% rubbing alcohol (also isopropyl, but diluted with less water), which I believe is primarily marketed for injection related sterilization purposes. That worked much better, being more flammable and not producing any liquid residue. But, it was very sooty. I quickly tired of getting sticky black grime on my gear and clothes. I can cook using 92% rubbing alcohol, but because of its soot these days it would be my "fuel of last resort."
Today, my "stove" remains a simple can, albeit now a tiny "Fancy Feast" cat food one. (I downsized because alcohol burned up much more quickly, producing more heat than needed, within my larger tuna can.) If my current "stove" were more complex, requiring liquid and/or vapors to pass through small openings, burning rubbing alcohol might clog it up.
Go to any hardware/paint store & get "DENATURED" alcohol to use in your stove. Most of my cooking is done with wood, but I have an alcohol stove as backup & the denatured alcohol burns very clean.
Wise Old Owl
08-23-2013, 08:29
Well Mags if this works for you great. I get it - high country, fire bans, altitude issues, Speed of boiling water... carting extra weight.
Operator Error Mags, we see it often.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90hsmfBwkyU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_mKnIoe4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyTj3J1z7Hc
Read this whiteblaze thread:
Exploding Stoves Etc. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?15537-Exploding-Stoves-Etc&highlight=exploding+stoves)
Just to add my two cents. Made the switch to a cat can stove last summer and love it. Up until that time I used the Coleman Peak One. Had been using the peak one ever since 1981 I loved its fuel efficiency and fine touch flame adjustment. Many times someone with one of those "new" whisperlite stoves would be trying to get it lit while I was well on my way to eating thanks to my easy to use and fuel effluent Peak One.
peakbagger
08-23-2013, 10:11
When sectioning the AT, I hiked with a friend that used alcohol stove vs my pocket rocket with a handmade hanging wind screen. He tended to buy food that could be eaten cold while I usually did Lipton type meals. I think either would work for most but I generally could get my meal done faster and could be bit more creative. With the Standard iso pro cannisters I got about 10 days of two hot meals per day which consisted of one boil in the AM for oatmeal and hot chocolate and one evening meal which was 2 to 3 minutes of simmering a Lipton meal. Without the hanging heat shield, I had to be careful for stiff breezes and found that I had to keep the stove at higher flame to accommodate breezes. I usually would set up the stove in a wind break. After rigging up a piece of flashing to make a shield supported off the burner wings, I got 14 days per canister. It made a big difference in that I could set up on picnic table and I could crank the flame way down to simmer. I just mark my canisters at the end of the trip on how many days I used it and use up the near empty ones on weekends. Near empty canisters were a frequent find in hikers boxes and I expect that if someone was willing to carry an extra, they could just live off of hiker boxes for fuel. Unfortunately some slobs just dump the empties when they are done with them.
One caveat is that in cold weather, the fuel tends to fractionate with the light fractions vaporizing more quickly than the heavier fractions. The net result is when the tansk were near empty, they didn't work as well in cold weather.
The other reason for carrying a canister stove is I have occasionally used it to compensate for colder than expected weather. If I get caught in the cold and my sleeping bag isn't cutting it, I can quite quickly crank up the stove while in the bag and heat up a pot of water that goes in a Nalgene which I put in the base of my sleeping bag. It makes quite a difference and doesn't take that long. I expect it could be done with Alcohol but it sure would take longer. On the rare occasions I have done this I usually had plenty of fuel to get into town or worse case is I cooked over wood if legal.
Just Bill
08-23-2013, 10:30
An experienced outdoorsman is a master of his craft- any good craftsman should have the right tool for the right job. I own over 15 different hammers, I also own over twenty stoves. When you look at any piece of gear, and a specific trip- you can absolutely determine the best. When you consider traveling to a different area (AK traveling west or Mags heading east) then you need to reconsider your tool.
Here's some Mags style advice- Don't knock it until you try it.
Some of you may not ever go much past your backyard- so what works for you works for you. But always peek into another fellas pack, or find out what one guy does in another area. You can learn how to use a roofing hammer, even if you never plan on roofing- but that one day your kid asks you to build a dog-house- well you know what to do. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but that's okay really since most old dogs just stay on the front porch.
Thanks as always Mags- I've tried every trick in the book- but revisiting a topic always gets me thinking again, and maybe trying out something new. Slightly off topic but you've got me thinking stoveless again- a miserable experience ten years ago but now that I've honed other skills and taken on different trips it seems to make sense again. You never know what your next job will be...
Another Kevin
08-23-2013, 10:48
One thing to remember in the discussion is that commercial canister stoves are all pretty much the same design - except perhaps for the choice of windscreen - while homemade alcohol stoves vary widely. A simple cup that burns alcohol like a chafing dish will not compare in performance to a pressurized-jet stove sized to match the pot, with a properly constructed wind screen, pot stand, stove stand (it makes a big difference getting the cup of the stove up off the cold ground) and heat reflector underneath. It also makes a difference how the stove is primed: can you use any excess heat from the priming to heat your pot? (That consideration is why I don't like sideburners.) And it makes a difference if the simmer ring works. That takes some fiddling at home to get right, with most alcohol stove designs.
Another reason that nobody's mentioned so far to favor alcohol (or wood!) is that you can fight a fire if necessary. If I'm anywhere near a water source, I'm likely to cook with a half-bucket of untreated water sitting right beside me. Just in case.
If I hiked in chapparal or semi-arid forest with frequent fire bans, I'd switch to a canister stove in a heartbeat. But I don't. In the wet Eastern woodlands (I imagine that the same would hold for the Cascades or the muskeg-and-lake country further north) Horses for courses.
I too used the Whisperlite 12-15 years ago, then switched to alcohol for 3-4 years before settling on the pocket on rocket - works well for me. I simply stick a piece of masking tape with the number of boils I used it for on the used cannister, I then either take it along on the next trip or simply use it simmer a side dish while grilling on the back patio to finish using it up
Another Kevin
08-23-2013, 11:10
An experienced outdoorsman is a master of his craft- any good craftsman should have the right tool for the right job. I own over 15 different hammers, I also own over twenty stoves. When you look at any piece of gear, and a specific trip- you can absolutely determine the best. When you consider traveling to a different area (AK traveling west or Mags heading east) then you need to reconsider your tool.
Yup. As I just said (posts crossed), horses for courses. And if you're going to have dogs along with horses, they had better be foxhounds or beagles or another type that's bred to it There are a lot of things that I'd have to relearn if I were ever to hike the the West again. I haven't hiked there in thirty years, and really didn't have the proper skills when I did.
I don't own twenty stoves. I've thrown all but a couple of the alcohol-fired ones I've made into the recycle bin. But I usually carry one of the keepers. I have a Whisperlite (my go-to for winter conditions) and a Pocket Rocket. The Pocket Rocket tends to collect dust. In my hiking, I just never seem to have the trip where it seems to be the right tool for me. Who knows, that could change next year. One crazy dry summer could make the difference.
And yes, thanks, everyone, for sharing the thoughts. This sort of thing does bear re-examination from time to time.
icdaywee
08-23-2013, 11:48
I had my first experience with a whisperlite about 2 months ago... the ensuing fireball has convinced me I should stick with canister stoves for now :/
I more often go stoveless now too, but came to a different conclusion for times when a stove makes sense. If with my wife, my 6 oz "kitchen" still cooks food for two just fine, most often all in one go (rather than having to heat twice). When hiking with others where I'll be adjusting my process to theirs I might still go stoveless, else I still incline to carrying a lighter overall setup (alcohol stove) and not having to deal with the granularity issue (one canister or two? plus partial canisters left over at home, always want a full one when starting the next trip). And FWIW, in the context of "sharing ideas", sometimes the best way to share is doing so in person, by example. Seeing a lightweight setup in action might be helpful to someone I'm hiking with.
Though admittedly, generally not on the latter point. I'm not sure how much this is folks convincing themselves that the cool thing (typically jetboil variant) that they bought is really a cool thing, and how much they really do find the fast cook time to be all that big a deal.
I think a broader topic is just generally what changes when you hike with a group that has (typically) a substantially different hiking style and associated expectations. For me it's very little; about the only thing I tend to add is a clothing item or two for times when I can't stay warm enough by "just keeping going".
It takes me a while to figure things out. I first burned alcohol using as my "stove" just a plain 8 oz. tuna fish can. Ignoring sound advise posted here on White Blaze, I starting out using the cheaper rubbing alcohol, which is only 70% alcohol (isopropyl). That burned poorly and left lots of water in the can after the flame burned out. Next, I tried burning 92% rubbing alcohol (also isopropyl, but diluted with less water), which I believe is primarily marketed for injection related sterilization purposes. That worked much better, being more flammable and not producing any liquid residue. But, it was very sooty. I quickly tired of getting sticky black grime on my gear and clothes. I can cook using 92% rubbing alcohol, but because of its soot these days it would be my "fuel of last resort."
Thanks for this answer. A few years ago I made various cat can stoves and tried them out. They worked okay with the 92% rubbing alcohol but was indeed grimy. For now I'll stick with my pocket rocket canister stove and suffer the consequences of running out of fuel. Thank you again.
Wow, these guys aren't intelligent, open fire and then possible harm with shrapnel. Almost a Darwinism award given there. They lucked out!
Exploding Stoves Etc. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?15537-Exploding-Stoves-Etc&highlight=exploding+stoves)[/QUOTE]
"And yes, thanks, everyone, for sharing the thoughts. This sort of thing does bear re-examination from time to time.[/QUOTE]" Agreed! I forget A LOT! Like the cat can stoves I made, duh. I always have to re examine what I do OCD!!! No Joke, being OCD and forgetful sucks. Heck, I just taped up three drop boxes for this/next month's trip on the AT. Completely forgot what I have in them; and I'm only 41. :banana
Well Mags if this works for you great. I get it - high country, fire bans, altitude issues, Speed of boiling water... carting extra weight.
Kinda the point of what I said. It works for me, personally. ;)
When you consider traveling to a different area (AK traveling west or Mags heading east) then you need to reconsider your tool.
Absolutely! Here's what I wrote recently in an online interview (http://on-the-trail.net/jibber-jabber/2013/paul-mags.html):
What would be some of your ideal kit?
I don't think it's possible to have an ideal kit. All gear is a matter of compromise, seeing what works and adjusting as needed.
Smoke Blanchard, well known Sierra climber, put it best:
"There is no real hope of traveling perfectly light in the mountains. It's good to try, as long as you realize that like proving a unified field theory, mastering Kanji, or routinely brewing the perfect cup of coffee—the game can never be won"
If I hiked in chapparal or semi-arid forest with frequent fire bans, I'd switch to a canister stove in a heartbeat. But I don't. In the wet Eastern woodlands (I imagine that the same would hold for the Cascades or the muskeg-and-lake country further north) Horses for courses.
Absolutely! See above about the right tools. It is not by coincidence that I started shying away from alchie stoves in two back-to-back years of massive wild fires out here.
Personally, I am glad there are so many choices for different styles of hiking. :)
I've gone like this. Stoveless, than whisperlite, than pocket rocket, tried alcohol, now back to pocket rocket. Now I am rarely out for more than 3 days. Anything over 30 has always been stoveless.
Slo-go'en
08-23-2013, 17:21
Can you use rubbing alcohol, the higher alcohol content one?
Yes, the 90% rubbing alcohol will burn, but it tends to leave a lot of soot and doesn't burn as hot as the better grades of alcohol, like denatured or HEET.
"Thanks for this answer. A few years ago I made various cat can stoves and tried them out. They worked okay with the 92% rubbing alcohol but was indeed grimy."
As Slo-go-en points out you need to use the right fuel to get the job done...
Rubbing alcohol is not it, Yellow Heat or Denatured alcohol , like SLX, (the more Ethanol in the mix the hotter it will burn) are the type of fuels to use.
No point complaining about your pizza if you insist using mint instead of origano....
oruacat2
08-24-2013, 23:29
So what's the general consensus when you consider efficiency, cost, etc - HEET, or denatured alcohol?
I've got a Trangia alcohol stove that I've barely tinkered with and a PocketRocket on the way (bought off another forum) - I'll probably take them both on my trip next month and experiment, since it'll be 50% car-camping and thus weight won't be an issue.
My suggestion is to use the fuel that was used testing/tinkering with the stove.
For example Trail Designs fiddled for a year or so with what became the 12-10 by mostly using SLX.
My guess is that it will work best with that.
Tinny at MiniBull uses Yellow Heet, so my guess is that his stoves perform better with that.
I already suggested several times that 95% Ethanol (the fuel we use in Australia) possibly burns too hot in some of those set-ups .
However if you make your own and tinker with it using Ethanol, again I would guess that it will, in the end , work best with that.
stranger
08-25-2013, 03:46
I don't really like alcohol stoves that much...but they are simple, cheap and simple...so I use them. I like the simplicity of the cat can stove cause it doubles as a pot stand and fits in my mug - just too easy. I also have a Pepsi can stove from about 2000 before anyone had them, and a Trangia before that.
As for regulations, I wouldn't pay any mind...if asked I would say I didn't have a stove (which is often true) and just be careful and use your brain.
bear bag hanger
08-25-2013, 09:03
After seeing someone blow up a canister, I think they are a bit too dangerous. On the other hand, the same person who blew up his canister managed to almost burn up a picnic table with a alcohol stove a year later. I guess some people shouldn't be allowed around anything that burns! Not at all sure how to handle his request to go on my hike next year.
shakey_snake
08-25-2013, 19:06
You can reconsider adding weight to your kit as much as you want, whether it be stoves or sleeping pads or tents or boots or whatever.
The simple fact is it's all weight and not hauling it up and down the pointless up and downs always makes me feel better. ;)
So what's the general consensus when you consider efficiency, cost, etc - HEET, or denatured alcohol?
Denatured alcohol is usually about $7 for a quart. HEET runs about $2.30 for a 12oz bottle. So the price per oz is almost the same. As far as efficiency, I think they are close enough for all but the most dedicated "stovie." Usually I find HEET to be easier to find and more convenient, because I don't need a full quart at a time.
Another Kevin
08-25-2013, 21:07
So what's the general consensus when you consider efficiency, cost, etc - HEET, or denatured alcohol?
Yes. :)
They both burn clean, and they're about the same price. The chemistry says that the denatured alcohol should be a shade more efficient, but the experience says it doesn't matter.
Everclear 190 proof would be ideal - it burns clean, it's got a higher energy content than denatured, and it's fuel, antiseptic and libation in one convenient package. But it's deuced expensive in the states where it's legal, and it's not legal in a fair number of states on the AT. (North Carolina, West Virginia, New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine ban its sale outright, and the state package stores in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Vermont don't carry it.)
In eastern woodlands where fire bans are not an issue, I began many moons ago with white gas, then switched to homemade alcohol, then to Caldera Cone with alcohol, then CC with Esbit, then wood primary with Esbit backup. I have some canister stoves which I would use in fire ban areas, but so far have not had to do so. Above tree line I still use Esbit in a CC. Use what works for you. Try new things and change if it makes sense to you.
MuddyWaters
08-25-2013, 21:32
Yes. :)
Everclear 190 proof would be ideal - it burns clean, it's got a higher energy content than denatured, and it's fuel, antiseptic and libation in one convenient package. But it's deuced expensive in the states where it's legal, and it's not legal in a fair number of states on the AT. (North Carolina, West Virginia, New York, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine ban its sale outright, and the state package stores in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Vermont don't carry it.)
Well, it should burn clean, but I get a little sooty residue from straight everclear, and spotless operation from SLX. Go figure. Air supply may play a role. Everclear also doesnt light as easily because its vapor pressure is lower. I tend to spike my SLX with everclear , 75/25 to get a blend that lights a bit easier, burns a bit cleaner (in my setup) , and still burns a bit hotter than straight SLX, evidenced by slightly shorter boil times.
Everclear runs about $12 liter with tax at my grocery store, so thats double SLX price basically.
[Quote}So what's the general consensus when you consider efficiency, cost, etc - HEET, or denatured alcohol?
I've got a Trangia alcohol stove that I've barely tinkered with and a PocketRocket on the way (bought off another forum) - I'll probably take them both on my trip next month and experiment, since it'll be 50% car-camping and thus weight won't be an issue. [QUOTE] Dry Wood
Odd Man Out
08-26-2013, 17:00
You can make your own ethanol. Legal if not for drinking and you get the permit.
http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f511074.pdf
The Cleaner
08-26-2013, 17:50
Here's my 2 cents worth. I first started hiking in the mid 70s and used a Primus butane stove which the canister also fit a small heater with stand and a parabolic reflector or a lantern. Then a few years later I eyed the beautiful shinny brass Svea 123 and had to have it. Only paid $37 for it, and a few dollars for a Sigg aluminum fuel bottle. The stove lasted for over 3500 miles before blowing the relief valve and producing quite a surprising show. The fuel bottle was in the back of a pick up truck heading for a car camping trip. Never made it to that trip due to a traffic accident which I overturned the truck and the fuel bottle was pretty well half flattened under the truck. The fuel bottle did not leak a drop despite being destroyed. Now nearing the 5000 mile hiking mark I have found at shelters and some campsites probably hundreds of empty or partially empty fuel canisters. In a shelter, in the privy or half buried with other trash, some just thrown as far as could be from a campsite. Never found even 1 empty white gas fuel bottle......