View Full Version : Trail advice for hike in the Whites around Franconia Notch
I am looking for a 20 to 25 mile hike to include the Franconia Notch on the AT. I have 4 days around Oct. 11th. only have one car so a loop is what I was thinking. I have thrued in 07 and hike reg. the 2 others are sections hikers. Any advice on trails, camping, parking ect would be helpful.
Old Hillwalker
08-28-2013, 11:54
Park at Lincoln Woods Trailhead (big facility with Ranger Station, bathrooms and secure). Walk Lincoln Woods Trail to Osseo Trail then follow Osseo to join the ridge. Head north on Franconia Ridge all the way around to South Twin and then on to Guyot and then Bond and Bond Cliff. Drop off Bond Cliff back into the Pemi Wilderness and follow the trail back to Lincoln Woods. Camping opportunities: Liberty Tentsite, Garfield Tentsite, Guyot Tentsite, and plenty of legal sites in between.
peakbagger
08-28-2013, 12:47
Hard to beat the pemi loop described above. It will be crowded with dayhikers in section.
Slo-go'en
08-28-2013, 15:30
and plenty of legal sites in between.
Good luck with that - please stay at designated sites. Keep in mind that's a pretty strenuous hike - but then they all are in that area.
Thanks Hillwalker...Do you know about how many miles that is on the AT and total for the hike. Also is there a site that I could pull up a map of the loop? What do you think the temps will be 2 week in Oct.?
fredmugs
08-28-2013, 17:20
Franconia to Crawford is relatively easy and you should be able to use the AMC shuttle to get from end to the other.
There are plenty of legal -- and responsible -- places to camp in the Pemi loop described and in most of the Whites. Get a copy of the rules, then find a great site away from everyone else. Don't be fooled into thinking its all about designated sites. Hell, you can even build fires in most (not all) of the wilderness areas in the WMNF.
Slo-go'en
08-28-2013, 20:16
There are plenty of legal -- and responsible -- places to camp in the Pemi loop described and in most of the Whites. Get a copy of the rules, then find a great site away from everyone else. Don't be fooled into thinking its all about designated sites. Hell, you can even build fires in most (not all) of the wilderness areas in the WMNF.
Like I said, good luck with that - given these are weekend hikers who will be dog tired and likely trying to find a spot in the dark. Here's something I found at http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html
You can also try to find your own back-country campsite. This is not easy, due to difficult terrain and the National Forest rules.
NOTE: the rules can and do change. The following was accurate in 2012:
You may not camp (except at designated campsites) within 1/4 mile of any hut, shelter, campsite, or trailhead.
You may not camp above treeline (defined as where the trees are under 8 feet tall), except when there is at least 2 feet of snow on the ground.
You may not camp (except at designated campsites) within 200 feet of any trail within the Pemi Wilderness, nor the Liberty Spring Trail, Falling Waters Trail, nor Old Bridle Path. No camping within Franconia Notch State park.
You may not camp within 1/4 mile of the East Branch Pemigewasset River below Franconia Brook, nor within 200 feet of the East Branch Pemigewasset River up to Thoreau Falls Trail, nor within 200 feet of the lower part of Franconia Brook (below the second island above Franconia Falls).
Complete rules (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fs.usda.gov%2FInternet%2FFSE_ DOCUMENTS%2Fstelprdb5363715.pdf&ei=GeffT9P9JsWQ0QGy743XCg&usg=AFQjCNFHnKLOYTFRgeoLIWfde16vCYT8KQ) (as of 2012). These rules change from time to time - and unfortunately, the Forest Service doesn't have a stable URL for finding them. if I haven't updated the link lately, search the Forest Service website (http://fs.usda.gov/) or check my links page on SummitPost (http://www.summitpost.org/white-mountain-nh-me-links-page/393708). As a practical matter, considering treeline and terrain, this all means that you can only camp in the established campsites (see map (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/loop_map.html)), or fairly low on the Osseo or Bondcliff trails (but at least 1/4 mile above the Pemi River). Rumors and legends assert the existence of bivouac spots near the top of Mt Flume, along Garfield Ridge, and along the Twinway, but these will probably prove difficult to locate, or forbidden by the new 200-foot trail exclusion zone.
Also from this same site, the classic loop is 31 miles and change, with 9,000+ feet of elevation gain, about 18,000 of delta elevation change if you add in decents. I guess that's why I never went back to do that loop again after the first time nearly 30 years ago!
Does anyone know the mileage from parking lot to Liberty campsite, Liberty to Garfield ridge shelter and Garfield shelter to Guyout shelter and from there back to parking lot. looking to plan the trip for 3 over nights trying to get an idea of mileage between possible camp sites.....
Does anyone know the mileage from parking lot to Liberty campsite, Liberty to Garfield ridge shelter and Garfield shelter to Guyout shelter and from there back to parking lot. looking to plan the trip for 3 over nights trying to get an idea of mileage between possible camp sites.....
2.9 mi from the parking lot directly to Liberty Spring Tentsite.
About 7.3 from there to Garfield Ridge Campsite.
About 6.5 from there to Guyot Campsite.
jersey joe
08-31-2013, 12:31
Like I said, good luck with that - given these are weekend hikers who will be dog tired and likely trying to find a spot in the dark. Here's something I found at http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html
I found the trip report write-up on this site of his one day attempt of the pemi loop very entertaining/informative.
Yes I saw that site and has a nice map of the loop... I just didn't see any mileage Jeffmeh says its only 2.9 from the parking lot and looking at the map it looks further..and body else familiar with this loop and can give me approximate mileage ? I'm looking to spread this hike out over 4 days and wanted to plans about where we were going to camp each night with distance in-between each site..... ......http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html (http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html)
Slo-go'en
09-01-2013, 10:55
Yes I saw that site and has a nice map of the loop... I just didn't see any mileage Jeffmeh says its only 2.9 from the parking lot and looking at the map it looks further..and body else familiar with this loop and can give me approximate mileage ? I'm looking to spread this hike out over 4 days and wanted to plans about where we were going to camp each night with distance in-between each site..... ......http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html (http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html)
The 2.9 miles to Liberty Spring is from Franconia Notch. You want to start from Lincoln woods to make the loop. While it would be possible to loop back to Liberty Spring and down to the Notch, it's more practical to start at Lincoln woods. Keep in mind that once on the ridge, you must camp at the designated sites so there is no "about" where to camp.
First thing - get a copy of the map "Exprloring New Hampshire's White Mountains" from "The Wilderness Map Company" ISBN-13: 978-0-9785932-4-7 This map is sold locally, but I image it can be bought on line too. This map covers the whole White Mt area and has lots of little notes and milages.
So, using this map and doing the research for you,
Lincoln woods trail head to Liberty springs tent site - 7.0 miles
Liberty springs tent site to Garfield Ridge shelter - 6.8+ miles (short connector off ridge to shelter)
Garfield Ridge shelter to Guyot Shelter - 6.3 miles
Guyot to Franconia Brook East. 8 miles
Franconia Brook East to Lincoln Woods parking lot - 2.6 miles
I would probably go trail head > Liberty springs > Garfield Ridge > Guyot > out.
1 mph is typcial thru here, so even though the miles seem short, it will take all day. If the weather is good, you'll want to take your time and enjoy the views. If the weather is bad it will be a slow struggle. Guyot back to the parking lot is about 11 miles, but the last half is pretty flat and easy.
A some what easier loop is to drop off the Garfield ridge to 13 falls campsite and out. Stick to the Franconia brook trail as the Lincoln woods trail is much more difficult and not well maintained. It can be difficult to keep track of. The Fransconia Brook trail is on the old narrow gauge RR bed, so it's an easy walk.
Thanks Slo-go'em that's is good info... I will look for that map on line. from Guyout it looks like the bondcliff trail goes to parking lot I didn't see where the Franconia brooke east meets it if I stay at Guyout shelter. I do like the Idea of dropping of ridge to 13 falls campsite as an option.
Sorry about that. Slo is correct if you want to loop from Lincoln Woods.
Slo-go'en
09-01-2013, 12:00
Franconia Brook east campsite is a hop across the river from the Wilderness trail. This is a relatively new site which replaces Franconia campsite which was closed to camping for some reason a few years back. Older maps don't have this shown or the new Pemi east side trail which connects to it. Definately get the map, this is one of those areas with a maze of trails, all with different names. To do this loop the name will change six times.
I was there with a friend just as this change was being made. For some reason we didn't notice the old campsite was closed on the way in. We had been at 13 falls and took the Lincoln woods trail out and climbed Owls head just for the heck of it, which delayed us so we didn't get back to where the Franconia campsite was until after dark and found out we couldn't stay there.
The new trail to the new campsite was not well marked or very obvious and in the dark we lost it where it crossed the stream. It being dark, tired and fustrated that we couldn't find the trail, we backtracked a little to some level ground and made camp there. The next day in the light we found the trail and were sooo close.
You will love this loop. I did most of this loop but bailed down the Skookumchuck trail due to weather on Lafayette. I started at Lincoln Woods and went counter-clockwise to Garcia Ridge Shelter the first day. The next morning going up Lafayette the wind was blowing around 70 mph so I bailed and got a shuttle back. The views from Bond are incredible. The trail going up Garcia is really neat if you like steep trails which I do. This loop works well for 2, 3 or 4 days depending on your desired pace.
Thanks everyone for the input !
Oh almost forgot staying at the liberty camp site, Garfield ridge shelter and guyout shelter could I use my hammock or bring my hubba??
Another question ...leaving after work today should get to Lincoln woods area around 2 am from Pa. Is there a place to camp near there? going to start hiking Sat morning some time. Do you know if they have maps at the Lincoln trail center? and are they open Sat. am this time of year? Will I have a problem hanging hammock at Liberty springs or any of the other camping/shelters on this loop? Any other tips o or advise on this hike would be great !
Slo-go'en
10-11-2013, 12:19
The Lafayette camp ground in Franconia Notch should be open as it is state run, but it will likely be full by the time you get there at 2 AM. All the National Forest campgrounds are of course closed, so everyone will be going to Lafayette. Keep in mind this is typically a very busy weekend, with hords of hikers coming up from Mass, southern New England and down from Quebec (I belive this is Canadian Thanksgiving weekend). Everything will be full, including most motels north of Concord, which all seem to double thier rates for this weekend. It doesn't help that the weather is going to be pretty reasonable, although most of the leaves are off the trees around here already. There is still some color, but I imagine it's better in southern NH and Vermont about now.
What few "stealth" camping sites near trail heads there are will likely be full of people who already know the area and with the Foreset Service campgrounds closed, these could be busier then usual. I think your best bet is to just get a motel room before you get too far north.
I can't comment on the suitability of hammocking, but I imagine it will be okay. Just keep in mind the temps have been dipping into the low 40's and high 30's lately...
Slo-go'en
10-11-2013, 12:32
Lincon woods ranger station will be closed for the duration of the gov't shut down. If they had maps, no doubt those have been removed and if they did have any there, no doubt they would be next to useless. Oh, one other thing is the possible legality of using the shelters and campsites inside the Pemmi with the shut down. Maybe that will have an impact on the number of people showing up or maybe not.
You can get all your question answered, automatically calculate routes, mileages and elevation changes and print out itineraries with trail names and the text of the White Mountain Guide at the White Mountain Guide On-line:
http://www.wmgonline.org
Each trip can then be printed off or saved as a PDF. There is a small fee, but it is worth it.
I never thought about the shut down....Will we be able to park at the Lincoln woods trail head to do the loop?
Slo-go'en
10-11-2013, 16:26
I never thought about the shut down....Will we be able to park at the Lincoln woods trail head to do the loop?
That shouldn't be a problem. The trail head parking lots in my area are already filling up - they'll be parked along the side of the highway before dark at this rate...
peakbagger
10-11-2013, 16:46
Yup going to be busy weekend. I plan to get out real early and meet the crowds as I come down.
I never started a hike from there..leaving home here at 7pm should get there at 2am, is the parking area right at the trail head? I heard there was a fee where do you pay. Slo-go,en would you mind a phone call I sent a pm with #
I never started a hike from there..leaving home here at 7pm should get there at 2am, is the parking area right at the trail head? I heard there was a fee where do you pay. Slo-go,en would you mind a phone call I sent a pm with #
$3 per day? And the trailhead is right there. The bridge crossing the river is very close to the parking lot. It's easy to walk a while along the eastern side thinking the bridge is got to be close. Nope it's back at the parking lot.