4 night retreat

[bellawoofoo]

First, just wanted to thank everyone for the great forum. I've learned a huge amount about the trail -- elevations, time to travel, weather and more -- that I hadn't learned anywhere else after hours of searching.

I'm looking for a little extra advice. I've done week-long backpacking and paddling trips in the north, but this will be my first overnight on the AT and first time in the Smokys. I'm planning a Wednesday evening through Sunday trip in mid-September. It's my annual solo retreat. It's less about putting on a lot of miles and more about getting out in creation to pray and reflect and write.

1. So, where would you go? My draft plan is to park at Newfound Gap around 5 pm. But I've heard Alum Cave Trail is a great experience, so to make a little loop I was going to walk the road or hitch to the Alum Cave trail, then take that up to Mt. Le Conte shelter for the night. Next day across the boulevard to IceWater Spring. Next night down the AT to Peck's Corner. And then last night back at IceWater or down at Kephart and then back up Sweet Heifer Trail toward Newfound Gap. Rationale: I've got a long drive to get there and Newfound Gap seemed like a quick entry point. I figured this would at least give me a good taste of the AT and the mountains for future trips while still giving me plenty of time to explore life along the way. But being close to the road, I've wondered if the trails and shelters will be heavily trafficked. And I've thought alternatively about just picking one backcountry campsite to stay at or some other easily accessible loop.

2. Since I have a long drive to get there and could arrive late in the evening, I've also considered just trying to find a dispersed drive-in campsite the first night someplace in state or federal wilderness between Lexington and the Smokys where you can camp without reservation or fee. Any ideas? Thanks.

[HooKooDooKu]

You can expect heavy traffic on Alum Cave Trail from the trail head to Alum Cave Bluffs.

From what I've been told, Ice Water Spring Shelter is also heavily used because of its proximity to a main road.

LeConte Lodge shelter is already full for all Saturday's in Sept, and half full for Sun, Thr, and Fri (Mon-Wed looks wide open).
The Boulevard is my FAVORITE trail to LeConte... but I've never hiked it down from LeConte (because there's a 500' climb from the Boulevard's lowest point back up to the AT.) Make sure to take the extra side trip to 'The Jumpoff'. The trailhead is located on the Boulevard just before it intersects with the AT.

If you go with the plan of staying at a base-camp, you are only allowed to spend a maximum of 3 nights at back-country campsites (1 night at shelters).

From what I've read, there are some great views from Rocky Top and Thunderhead Mountain. Depending upon the miles you can do, there's loop opportunites from Tremont or Elkmont, up the AT, across Thunderhead/Rocky Top, and back down.

One of my favorite spots is Gregory Bald with campsite #13 nearby. If you can leave home early enough, you could drive strait to the Gregory Ridge Trail head and hike the 2 miles to campsite #12 your first night, then spend the next 3 nights at #13. Then, just so you don't have to hike the same way back to your car, you can hike down Gregory Bald trail to Parson's Branch Road. From the road, it's about an easy 3 mile hike back to the car.

[TNhiker]

1. So, where would you go? My draft plan is to park at Newfound Gap around 5 pm. But I've heard Alum Cave Trail is a great experience, so to make a little loop I was going to walk the road or hitch to the Alum Cave trail, then take that up to Mt. Le Conte shelter for the night


either way---walking road or hitching----you're going to be hiking in the dark..

its only a couple of miles of a road walk but a real easy hitch (usually----your arrival time may change this) down to alum cave from newfound gap...

ok.....so lets say you do make it to alum cave trailhead by 6 pm....

getting up to leconte shelter is roughly 6 ish miles.........up hill.........so that's going to take you at least 3 hours----maybe more in the dark......

shelter is easy to find----but more than likely you'll be the last person to arrive and most others will be asleep........

just keep that in mind.......

i'd almost suggest doing loop in reverse---ie go out to icewater first night.....it's only 3 ish miles to shelter from newfound gap........if you hit trail by 5 pm, you'd arrive just after dark or so.......

a wednesday night at icewater i'd imagine would have less people...........

but a saturday night at leconte---you almost guaranteed it would be full.....

as for a place you can spend the night between lexington and the smokies-----you could sleeping in car at the rest stop........or try daniel boone national forest........im not familiar enough with car camping spots within the forest but since I 75 crosses through the forest, you may be able to research a spot out......

[HooKooDooKu]

but a saturday night at leconte---you almost guaranteed it would be full.....
I've already checked online and every Saturday night in Sept, the LeConte shelter is already full... you currently can not get a permit to stay at the shelter. And this time of year, the Park Service has had a ranger stationed at LeConte Lodge, and since he's already up there, he does go up to the shelter most nights to check on those staying there (so when ever you go, make sure you've got your permit, the process changed this year, you make your reservation online now and you must pay for each night).

[TNhiker]

Oh yeah---I know that all too well...

Last year, he checked my permit 3 times in the day....

[gollwoods]

newfound gap will add up to an hour more to your drive plus the friday traffic into gatlinburg will be a pain and slow. I drive in from Toledo area so i have found that the eastern side of the park is quite easy to get to and has great hiking. you can start at cosby or big creek. a couple loops like the gabes Mt trail up maddron bald and over to cosby is a classic,
also the loop out of big creek to walnut bottoms site 37 then up gunterfork to laurel gap and over to Mt sterling firetower site 38 is nice. then you can drive over and hit leconte as a hike in one day without your full pack.
BTW I usually take 25e out of corbin it is a ok drive and will bring you through to I-81 east of the smokies. I 75 is more crowded with trucks etc.

[bellawoofoo]

Thanks for all the advice. Glad to have your time estimates, TNHiker, to help me rethink being on the trail after dark. I've also begun considering the alternative routes.

Helpful to have your thoughts on the road route too, gollwoods; I'll be coming from the same area as you and coming in Wednesday and coming out Sunday headed to Nashville. Google maps seems to think the routes are about even, but I assume the delay in going to Newfound Gap is because it's a slow road through the park.

So I'm hearing two different favorite sections:

1. On the West End, I've been able to follow the Gregory Bald Trail loop. But am confused by the road access which seems to be one-way. Do you have to come from the North and the drive out of the park South?

2. On the East End, I haven't been able to figure out the classic route you suggested, gollwoods, up maddron bald. But I've also been studying a route that HooKooDooKu was considering this summer. Given your fondness for Gregory Bald, I wondered which you think would be better for me:

HooKooDooKu:
I'm planning a loop hike myself to Mount Sterling. That combined with gollwoods' suggestion gave me the following idea:
Day 1: Start at Big Creek Ranger Station, hike up Chestnut Branch to the AT and see Mt camerer, spend the night at Cosby Shelter
Day 2: Follow the AT to Mount Guyot, then go off trail following some of the man-ways to the top of Mount Guyot and find the geological survey marker. Mount Guyot is the highest mountain East of the Mississippi River without a trail to the top (reason I'm interested in this trip some day). Note that from what I've read online, you're likely to be spending some time climbing over downed trees and generally slow going (it's a lot more difficult than it looks on a map). Spend the night at Tricorner Knob.
Day 3: Hike Balsam Mtn Trail to Mount Sterling Ridge Trail to camp site #38 and climb the fire tower.
Day 4: Hike down Baxter Creek back to your car.

This "Adventure" allows you to see Mount Camerer Fire Tower (great views, pretty tower), go off trail to Mount Guyot (a place not frequented since there is no trail, plus the fun challenge of seeking the USGS Marker), a stay at Tricorner Knob (considered to be the most remote shelter in the Park), and a climb up into the 60' Mt Sterling Fire Tower. It's a loop to boot (no shuttle).

[HooKooDooKu]

1. On the West End, I've been able to follow the Gregory Bald Trail loop. But am confused by the road access which seems to be one-way. Do you have to come from the North and the drive out of the park South?

Forge Creek Road is a two-way road from Cades Cove to Gregory Ridge Trail Head. Parson's Branch Road is a one-way road away from Forge Creek Road to the National Park Boundary. So to get to the Gregory Ridge Trail Head, you have to drive half-way around Cades Cove to get to Forge Creek road. The road is located immediately past the Cades Cove Visitor's Center.

While Parson's Branch Road is a one-way road... that's for cars. A hiker won't have any problems hiking the "wrong way" down the road. The gravel will alert you to any traffic coming before you can even see it to give you plenty of time to step out of the road to allow what little traffic you'll encounter to pass.

So your hike is a simple loop consisting of Gregory Ridge Trail, Gregory Bald Trail, and Parson's Branch Road. Then you can drive Parson's Branch Road or Forge Creek Road to leave.

The section of Parson's Branch Road that you would hike is 3.2 miles long.

[TNhiker]

Don't forget to factor in drive time to forge creek road from the entrance of the cove...

Midweek it won't be as bad but it may take an hour or more or even more to get to backside of cove...

However, if you have the will to do a long drive and forgo the car camping on the way down---you could tent at the Cade's cove campground (it's not free though) and be at gate in mornin when the cove opens and that will cut down tourist traffic time...

And personally---I wouldn't drive out forge creek road on the way home......

It will add a ton of time (think like an hour or two to get from road to 129) and then from 129 to an interstate is a haul.....

However if you like really scenic drives---it's a great drive....just very curvy and slow of a drive...

The big creek side is nice and easy to get to and from interstate.....

[TNhiker]

And I say this in every Gregory bald thread---while up there, make it a point to go by Moore spring...

Best high elevation spring in the park......

Always flowing and a much better water source than the one near CS 13 which is a hog wallow...

Just make sure to bring some sort of collection device as the spring is on the other side of the bald from the campsite......

[madgoat]

......better water source than the one near CS 13 which is a hog wallow...

Yeah, the one nearer to the campsite isnt nice.... and it can be dry depending on the weather and time of year.

[wornoutboots]

I like your original idea but I would do it in reverse. Park at NFG hike to Kephart, then to Pecks, then backtrack on the AT past Charlies Bunion to Leconte Shelter then Down Alum Cave trail. I've done a similar hike with my wife & unfortunately we night hiked into Kephart but it was a great hike, that is until we ran into a pack of hogs heading up to the AT the next day. After that experience my wife decided she wanted ot bail. Enjoy!!

[HooKooDooKu]

Check out the rules for front country campsites (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/campregs.htm). Some camps grounds require reservations, others are 1st come 1st served. Even if you arrive after hours, I believe all camp grounds have pay boxes where you're supposed to pay the camping fee. When you combine that with the new permit system that requires payment for each back country camp site, there isn't any place to camp for free inside GSMNP (except for possibly sleeping in your car... not sure about GSMNP rules on that).

[Ox97GaMe]

Some additional info....

a) there is a nice place to camp along the Sheltowee Trace trail at exit #49 just north of London KY. There is a truck stop on that exit. Take the gravel road beside the truck stop and it will take you to a large gravel area on top of the hill. I have stopped there on a number of occassions and camped (vehicle,tent, and hammock). It is close to the interstate, but you dont hear the traffic. This appears to be a teenager Fri/Sat night hangout, but Ive never had anybody there when Ive been there during the week.

b) If you are considering either the loop out of Cosby or Big Creek, there is an option for camping off exit 457 (Waterville NC). Take exit, turn right and go across bridge. follow road 50 yards and turn left (back under bridge). Rafting buses use this area, and there is a service drive that goes to a cell tower part way up the hill. You can car camp here. Kayakers used to camp here all the time, but the road has been gated that went to the really good campsites further downstream. It is close to the interstate and you may hear truck traffic throughout the night.

c) Parsons Branch road is a one way over to US129, but recommended to use high clearance vehicle as it is not a well maintained road. I would suggest driving back around the loop to Hyatt Lane, then take Rich Mtn road out to Townsend. It is shorter than driving back out to the ranger station and past Tremont. That is a very nice gravel road inside the park boundry and turns to paved when it exits the park at the top of the ridge.

d) The Cades Cove loop is closed Wed and Sat mornings to foot and bicycle traffic only until 10am. You may need to take this into consideration for your trip, depending on your arrival.

e) There are camping options on US129 near the Smoky Mtn Parkway. I dont know the rules/regulations, but have seen campers and tents set up along the river occassionally when I am driving through early Sat mornings. It will be immediately beside the road, so you will hear any traffic that goes by. This would give you fairly easy access to the Cades Cove area the next morning.

f) Mt LeConte has both a Lodge and a Shelter. In the fall, both are generally full on weekends. The Lodge is always full 60-90 days in advance. The shelter is typically available on weeknights.

g) you DO NOT want to walk from NewFound Gap to Alum Cave parking area. The road has very narrow shoulders and is under construction. This is not safe for walking. hitching is usually pretty easy from NFG. Just get friendly with people as you are trying to hitch and you should have a ride down in less than half an hour.

h) I would not recommend hiking above Alum cave after dark. There are a couple of places where the trail goes along some ledges. They have steel cables in these areas. They are scary to hike in the day and can be very trecherous at night. It takes me 2 hrs to get to the top with a 28 lb pack. I am an experienced backpacker that is hiking in the park on a very regular basis.


Hope all of this helps. Have a great hike and be safe in the backcountry. :)

[sliderule]

Even if you arrive after hours, I believe all camp grounds have pay boxes where you're supposed to pay the camping fee.

Not true.

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[sliderule]

its only a couple of miles of a road walk ... down to alum cave from newfound gap...



Sure about that distance?

When walking through the tunnel, do you recommend walking on the side or right down the middle?

[HooKooDooKu]

There was a now deleted post that claimed that if you arrive late and leave early, you could camp at the GSMNP camp grounds for free. My noting of pay boxes originate from that suggestion.

So for starter, the GSMNP rules and regulations for front country campsites (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/campregs.htm) state:
You must register and pay a fee. Check in at the campground office or follow instructions on the Pay Station sign.

I can definitely say that many GSMNP front country camp ground have after-hours pay boxes based on their "Late Arrival" (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/frontcountry-camping.htm)instruction:
At Cades Cove, Cataloochee, Elkmont and Smokemont: If you have advance reservations and arrive after the campground office closes, please proceed to your assigned site. If you have forgotten your assigned site, check the Late Arrival List posted on the bulletin board for your name and site number. Return to the campground office the next morning to check in. If you fail to check in your site may be reassigned and your reservation may be canceled.
If you do not have advance reservations, check the Late Arrival List. If there are campsites available for campers who do not have a reservation, those available sites will be posted on the list. Set up ONLY on one of the sites listed as available. All other sites are assigned to campers with reservations. Return to the campground office the next morning to check in.
At other campgrounds: Locate a vacant site and register immediately at the campground office or bulletin board. Registration involves filling out a registration envelope and depositing the camping fee in the nearby safe.

Given that Cataloochee REQUIRES advanced reservations (so pay boxes are a non-issue), that only leaves Cades Cove, Elkmont, and Smokemont that might not have pay boxes. And while I can't say for sure, I thought I've seen pay boxes at Cades Cove and Smokemont because they operate on a first-come-first-serve basis for part of the year. And if all of these have pay boxes, I would think Elkmont would as well (but again, I can't say for sure).

[DandT40]

Elkmont most defiantly has a pay box. Used it in March.

[TNhiker]

Not true.

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Sure about that?

All the ones I've stayed at or have been to have them in some capacity...

Which ones don't have the pay stations?

[HooKooDooKu]

its only a couple of miles of a road walk ... down to alum cave from newfound gap

Using Google Earth, I measure it to be 4.25 miles.

And while I'll admit to having braved this road on a bicycle once before, that was on a week day early in the morning to avoid as much traffic as possible.

Otherwise, there is only the smallest of space between the white strip and the guard rails. The upper section has lots of sharp (read blind) turns. The tunnel is 350' long and on a curve.

But even if it's possible to walk around the tunnel, I couldn't recommend a walk from New Found Gap.

[sliderule]

Sure about that?


100% sure.

[sliderule]

Elkmont most defiantly has a pay box. Used it in March.



Things operate differently during "peak (reservation) season" than during the "walk-in season."

There is no self-service option during peak season. Late arrivals are provided with a list of available sites (posted on a bulletin board) and instructed to report to the campground office when it opens the following morning.

[DandT40]

Things operate differently during "peak (reservation) season" than during the "walk-in season."

There is no self-service option during peak season. Late arrivals are provided with a list of available sites (posted on a bulletin board) and instructed to report to the campground office when it opens the following morning.

See when you reply with more than a one or two word answer we know what you are talking about. Yes you are correct that at peak times you check the list, setup on an empty spots, and then pay at the station in the morning. I believe the point that was trying to expressed to the OP was that you still have to pay even if you arrive after dark, but at least it is possible to get a front country site without reservations at the last minute assuming spots are available. Also, I don't think you would be out of line to check the list, pay with an envelope in the box (which is at every campsite), and setup camp. I doubt the rangers would be too upset you didn't pay them in the morning and instead put your fee in the box as long as you setup on an empty site. Especially if you plan to leave camp early.

[HooKooDooKu]

I doubt the rangers would be too upset you didn't pay them in the morning and instead put your fee in the box as long as you setup on an empty site. Especially if you plan to leave camp early.
Pretty much your only option if you both arrive late AND leave early.
Otherwise you are in violation of the regulations that require you to register and pay for your camp site.

But it makes sense that they don't include instructions for a situation that occurs very infrequently on signs designed to help move people through the check-in process. They obviously don't have room to print ALL the rules and regulations.

[sliderule]

Also, I don't think you would be out of line to check the list, pay with an envelope in the box (which is at every campsite), and setup camp. I doubt the rangers would be too upset you didn't pay them in the morning and instead put your fee in the box as long as you setup on an empty site.

Great theory. Except that there is no "box" at Elkmont during peak season. There is no mechanism for paying the camping fee except in person at the campground office, during normal working hours.

The "box at every campsite" is completely a figment of your imagination. The only thing at every campsite is a post on which to clip one's registration form, which can only be obtained as noted above.