Fuel canister "mileage" for section hike

[Dr Gadget]

I am heading out for a section hike, 18 days. I use an MSR pocket rocket and have never really paid much attention to my fuel consumption. :confused:.

I know I cannot ship fuel canisters in my mail drops. So I was hoping to get some guidance about

1. Whether there is an outfitter between Pearisburg and Buena Vista that I might be able to buy a fuel canister at???

2. How long do other campers using a pocket rocket find fuel canisters to last???

Thanks!!!
Dr G

[Venchka]

It's tricky & there are rules to follow and correct labeling of the box, but you can ship fuel canisters in a USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box.
How much water do you boil in a given day? When do you leave? Sacrifice a small canister for some testing. Educated guess: One middle size canister. Maybe one small canister as a back up.
I'm curious. How many mail drops do you plan for an 18 day hike?

Wayne

[DLP]

Using a pocket rocket and a 100 gram (net) fuel canister: I can get 1.5 to 2 cups of water to boiling (or a very hot simmer) about 10 or 11 times. Maybe 12. (Went out 9 days, and heated water 9 or 10 times and I came back with a little fuel... but not sure EXACTLY how many boils I returned with.) I also don't "cook" and just heat water to boiling or to a simmer.

I've found that altitude, temperature (both air and water temp) and wind are factors in fuel consumption. Wind probably makes the most difference. Not supposed to use a wind screen, but anything I can do to block wind saves fuel.

I find that using treated water for making coffee or oatmeal saves fuel. If you start with treated water, it is not necessary to bring the water to a full boil and treat the water. Simmering hot is good enough.

[HooKooDooKu]

You don't have to sacrifice a whole canister for testing if you have a left-over partial canister and an accurate kitchen scale. Just weight the canister, cook a few meals, then weight the canister again.


But something to keep in mind is that once out in the field, conditions can be very different that your test. The amount of fuel required will be strongly influenced by the following:

1. Starting Water Temperature:
Water from a mountain stream is likely to be cooler than what you get from the tap.

2. Winds:
Can greatly affect the flame and the transfer of heat from the stove to the pot. You can not mitigate this effect too much with a wind screen because a fuel canister isn't supposed to be confined within a wind screen. Doing so risks the stove heating the canister which could result in a explosion.

3. Air Temperature:
Affects the temperature of the canister which affects the vapor pressure of the fuel coming from the canister.

4. Frequency of use:
The release of fuel from the canister causes the canister to cool (has to do with thermo-dynamics and is similar to how an A/C unit cools). If you use the stove several times back-to-back, the starting temperature of the canister will be lower than what you might expect on the trail where you use the stove once and give the canister time to warm back up to air temperature.

Otherwise, off the top of my head, the best of my recollection of doing some tests myself with a 4oz MSR canister was that I was using 0.2 to 0.4 ounces of fuel per meal (so I should easily get 10+ meals out of one 4oz canister).

[Venchka]

The average is................11 boils/small canister.
Lets figure 10 boils/can with a modest safety factor.
Now, is that 5 days? Or 10 days? Your culinary habits may vary.

Wayne

[Venchka]

More than you need to know is right here...


*US220/Daleville - This isn't really a "town" stop, but there is a great deal for hikers. The largest supermarket on or very near the Trail is the 24-Hour Kroger Superstore just under half a mile to your left. There are all sorts of restaurants and shops in this mall, including a coffeehouse and a small, but quite friendly Outfitter. Motels and other restaurants are found close to the Trail crossing, or about half a mile away, to your right, uphill. Hikers should use caution here, as it's a VERY busy road. Because of the closeness and size of the market, I wouldn't send food here; also, the Post Office, in nearby Troutville, is over a mile's walk off the Trail. The motels at the 220 crossing will hold mail for guests. It is just under 93 miles from Pearisburg to Daleville; if you elect NOT to re-supply before Rt220, this stretch will likely take you about a week, or just under.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?133-Re-Supplying-along-the-Appalachian-Trail-Part-2-Damascus-VA-to-Harpers-Ferry-WV

Have fun!

Wayne

[RED-DOG]

I have used a Pocket Rocket on both of my NOBO thru-hikes, and one 8oz Canister will last me 12 days that's cooking one meal a day most of the time it's dinner unless it's cold weather then i will cook a hot breakfast, but one 8oz and one 4oz should last your entire hike.

[Kerosene]

Note that there is an outfitter that carries isobutane canisters in the shopping mall just "trail west" of the AT crossing of US-220 in Daleville.

I do most of my section hiking in the Fall, with morning/evening temps ranging from 40-55 degrees, using an old SnowPeak GigaPower stove. Warming up your canister in your sleeping bag before breakfast can help a bit, but as others have said, breezy conditions will have some of the biggest impact on boil times. I've stretched a 100 ml canister to 13 boils of 2-3 cups of water per boil, but that was pretty tight. You could go with a 250 ml canister to avoid the need to resupply, but a 100-110 ml canister should be more than enough to get you from Buena Vista to Daleville/US-220. Personally, I'd re-supply in Daleville, use up the first canister over the next few days and dispose of at The Home Place (gotta stop there!), and be careful with the second 110 ml canister to get you to Pearisburg. You can always go stoveless for a few meals to stretch gas.

[HikerMom58]

More than you need to know is right here...



http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?133-Re-Supplying-along-the-Appalachian-Trail-Part-2-Damascus-VA-to-Harpers-Ferry-WV

Have fun!

Wayne

This is good info....^^^

Outdoor Trails is the outfitter in Daleville...

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Dr. Gadget....it looks like you're planning to travel later than Snacktime and I....we're heading out on the 16th. Still willing to take you if you can travel then.

I just got a Pocket Rocket myself, so I can't advise on how long it will last personally, but I've been told about a week w/ 2 meals per day or 2 wks w/ 1 per day.

[Venchka]

It appears that my Guesstimate of one 250g & 1 100g canister is about right for 18 days. I'll remember that when it is my turn for a trip of similar length. Being a belt & suspenders, no resupply, and two hot meals per day kinda guy, I had always planned on 2 250g canisters and the occasional fire for that length of time.
YMMV.

Wayne

[Blissful]

Yes you can ship fuel canisters. I've done it many times! Info on this blog (http://blissfulhiking.blogspot.com/2012/01/postal-advice-on-mail-drops-for-long.html)

[Venchka]

Since we have done all the research, do we get to go on an 18 day section hike too? Mail drops optional. Re-supply optional.

Wayne

[kidchill]

It's seriously hard to estimate the time you get from canisters, but I must have had super canisters, 'cause I know mine lasted a hell of a lot longer then 12 days on a small. I opted for the larger canister most of the time (MSR). I would make anywhere from 1-3cups of coffee in the morning, and then cook either ramen or easy mac in the afternoon. I may have saved fuel by cozy cooking, which I would recommend if possible. One large canister should last that long just fine.

[WalksInDark]

Using a wind guard with the stove....will ensure you get closer to 12 good burns...rather than 10 maybes.

[mtnkngxt]

I can get about 15 meals worth of water out of a 100g canister with my Jetboil. I don't go for a rolling boil though, as soon the water starts bubbling I cozy cook my meal and use the rest of the water for hot chocolate or tea.

[q-tip]

I tested the Olicamp pot against my titanium to see how long it took to boil. On two tests, the Olicamp was 40% faster-saving lots of fuel.....

[Dr Gadget]

Thanks s all, I got hammered at work and so dropped off line for a while!
I am so pumped about the tons of info here to digest and what an awesome resource this forum and all you other hikers are!!!

Vencjka-at this point I am guestimating three drops. Not 100% on specifics. Thanks for the info on Daleville. Good to know there is an outfitter so accessible! North of Daleville is the stretch I am really unsure about. Looks like everything is so far off the trail! But yes, after all that research, you have an invite to join me ;)

Walks in the Dark-I thought using a wind guard with a canister set-up was a no no??

Thanks DLP, I pretty much always use treated water J

Good to know Red-Dog. I might be able to change my routine and go without my AM oatmeal but….. cannot skip COFFEE!

Thanks Kerosene- I am thinking about trying a few more stoveless meals but, I am old and set in my ways ;) I like the idea of warming the canister in your bag in the AM!!

Teach and Snacktime have a blast!!!! I look forward to hearing about your adventure!! Sadly, I cannot change my dates but we should think about making plans together for the future esp when heading so far south!

Thanks for the info about shipping canisters! I will check that out but esp as I know there is an outfitter in Daleville I will plan to grab one there…… That said, I am calling ahead as plans got trashed this summer when I arrived in Hanover NH to find that Mountain Goat was no longer there!!!

Kidchill when you say cozy cooking you are referring to when you pour hot water over over your meal and let it sit as opposed to cooking it on the stove??


Q-tip-you really like the Olicamp pot????

[Dr Gadget]

Awesome link Shmaybix

[Dogwood]

The average is................11 boils/small canister.
Lets figure 10 boils/can with a modest safety factor.
Now, is that 5 days? Or 10 days? Your culinary habits may vary.

Wayne


I have used a Pocket Rocket on both of my NOBO thru-hikes, and one 8oz Canister will last me 12 days that's cooking one meal a day most of the time it's dinner unless it's cold weather then i will cook a hot breakfast, but one 8oz and one 4oz should last your entire hike.


It appears that my Guesstimate of one 250g & 1 100g canister is about right for 18 days. I'll remember that when it is my turn for a trip of similar length. Being a belt & suspenders, no resupply, and two hot meals per day kinda guy, I had always planned on 2 250g canisters and the occasional fire for that length of time.
YMMV.

Wayne


It's seriously hard to estimate the time you get from canisters, but I must have had super canisters, 'cause I know mine lasted a hell of a lot longer then 12 days on a small. I opted for the larger canister most of the time (MSR). I would make anywhere from 1-3cups of coffee in the morning, and then cook either ramen or easy mac in the afternoon. I may have saved fuel by cozy cooking, which I would recommend if possible. One large canister should last that long just fine.


I can get about 15 meals worth of water out of a 100g canister with my Jetboil. I don't go for a rolling boil though, as soon the water starts bubbling I cozy cook my meal and use the rest of the water for hot chocolate or tea.

On the AT in summer, fall bringing warmish water to just a boil, pre warming the can so that it isn't very cold, using a windscreen of flashing, logs, or rocks, and then letting food heat through in the pot w/ a Snow Peak Lite max or MSR Micro Pocket Rocket then turned off I'll get 12/14 boils out of one small isobutane can. When the weather is hot I don't heat a b-fast. One large can would make it on 18 day hike FOR ME. If I thought I might be stretching the fuel use thin I'll eat a cold dinner or warm water over a campfire a night or two. You can also drop a small can into your last resupply box and start out with a small one. Adapt. You'll be fine.

[HooKooDooKu]

I can get about 15 meals worth of water out of a 100g canister with my Jetboil.

I tested the Olicamp pot against my titanium to see how long it took to boil. On two tests, the Olicamp was 40% faster-saving lots of fuel.....

A pot with a built-in heat exchanger should save fuel... it not only gets more of the heat from the burner to the pot, it also acts a bit like a wind screen.

[HikerMom58]

Awesome link Shmaybix

Dr. G... you can message me about what we talked about earlier. It's still OK. :) I'm here for ya!

[HooKooDooKu]

Walks in the Dark-I thought using a wind guard with a canister set-up was a no no??
I would assume that by "wind guard" they mean a wind screen that is mostly open and not very close to the stove.

The problem with the "classic" windscreen for a stove is that you have a piece of metal that tightly surrounds the stove burner so that it not only blocks the wind but also reflects some of the heat otherwise lost to the surrounding air. When you place a canister inside such a windscreen, the danger is that heat from the stove could heat the canister and over-pressurizing it to the point it might explode.

But you should be able to increase the efficiency of your stove without putting yourself in danger by having a wind screen on the windward side of your stove... tall enough and close enough to block the wind, but far enough away to prevent reflected heat from warming the canister.

You can even find some web pages showing you some home-made wide screens (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041#.Ui9FBsakp7c) that avoid placing the canister within the screen.

[Kerosene]

But you should be able to increase the efficiency of your stove without putting yourself in danger by having a wind screen on the windward side of your stove... tall enough and close enough to block the wind, but far enough away to prevent reflected heat from warming the canister.That's exactly what I do. Yes, I know that I could increase overall efficiency with a well-formed windscreen, but when it's breezy I just put my stove near a solid surface (the shelter or a rock) and use my 2 square foot piece of aluminum foil on the windward side and as a pot lid. Seems to do the trick in all but the windiest of conditions.