View Full Version : Walking the first 1/4, starting in mid jan in georgia!
Hi
I'm planning on walking the first quarter of the trail, starting in early to mid january next year. If anyone has ever started the trail at this time of the year can you please post of your experiences and any tips of how to male it successful. I'm also unsure of exactly what to pack, what size bag to carry, whether to get a 3/4 season sleeping bag, how many of certain clothes to bring etc I work at an outdoor activity centre in England, will be flying over to some friends and then going to georgia from there. Basically, any advice that anyone could give about walking at this time of year would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Paul
kayak karl
09-15-2013, 17:09
be prepared. i had snow, rain, sleet, sun shine 10 degree night and 45 degree day and that was on a Tuesday :) its is always wet and slippery, but the views are great http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=261523
http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/6625/tj6625%5F011909%5F164248%5F414482.jpg
Cheoah Bald 1/19/09
wornoutboots
09-15-2013, 17:19
I hiked from Springer to NOC started Jan 2nd a few years ago. What an Amazing time in the forest!! Several nights were in the single digits & I walked through 6-8" of snow & 50 degree weather both. make sure to bring traction gear! I had my normal 15 degree down bag, thermosrest inflatable pad, my camp clothes were the normal smart wool long johns, fleece top & pants, Marmot "Zues" down puffy jack, thick camp socks, . There are many places to bail if needed in this part of the trail. I nearo'd into Helen, Hiawassee & Franklin. I believe Winter backpacking starts with a Focused mental attitude & preparation that you'll need to toughen up your mind to be comfortable in the Winter conditions for a few weeks Along with that bring a few more days worth of food just in case you need to zero out in a shelter for a day or two. Enjoy!! It's one of the Best time to be in the Forest!!
gollwoods
09-15-2013, 17:25
24030 one thing I dislike about the winter is the snow always dropping in between the pack and my back then melting so you will probably face some of that. among other joys of winter travel on foot.
Slo-go'en
09-15-2013, 18:23
Seeing you admit to knowing nothing about winter camping or hiking, I would strongly urge you not to try. Your going to spend a lot of money on a trip which might (probably) not last long.
There is a very steep learing curve and it is best done in short dosages under somewhat controlled conditions with experianced people.
Lone Wolf
09-15-2013, 18:33
Hi
I'm planning on walking the first quarter of the trail, starting in early to mid january next year. If anyone has ever started the trail at this time of the year can you please post of your experiences and any tips of how to male it successful. I'm also unsure of exactly what to pack, what size bag to carry, whether to get a 3/4 season sleeping bag, how many of certain clothes to bring etc I work at an outdoor activity centre in England, will be flying over to some friends and then going to georgia from there. Basically, any advice that anyone could give about walking at this time of year would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Paul
you'll need lotsa $$$ for hostels and motels. you're gonna have a lot of down time
bangorme
09-15-2013, 19:04
Looking at some of these photos, wouldn't you need a four season tent?
kayak karl
09-15-2013, 19:28
Looking at some of these photos, wouldn't you need a four season tent? i wouldn't know. i had a hammock :)
Pay big time attention to what gloves you take. An non-insulated shell mittens, seperate fleece or wool mittens and liner gloves would be my suggestion. You need something for every condition including freezing rain, sleet, snow and just really cold. Freezing rain is the hardest because if your gloves are too warm then you will sweat and then the gloves freeze later. Wool is the best cold weather material.
kayak karl
09-15-2013, 19:50
Mags turned me on to these http://www.sweatersintl.com/woolmittens.html best investment i made. i have a shell over mitten http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___76029
MuddyWaters
09-15-2013, 20:11
If you have to ask, its probably not something you should try.
Someone started on Jan 1 this year. Made it almost to Va I think before he had to leave the trail due to damaged fingers from the cold
Rifle maybe?
If you have to ask, its probably not something you should try.
Someone started on Jan 1 this year. Made it almost to Va I think before he had to leave the trail due to damaged fingers from the cold
Rifle maybe?
It was rifle. He hand frostbite in Erwin Tennessee
You can do it Paul. Winters in the southeast US are cold and wet, but you're not going to get buried. Kayak Karl and wornoutboots offer great advice above. Carry plastic bags (vapor barriers) and extra wool socks to prevent frostbite. Read as much as you can about other winter thru's, proper layering systems, weather patterns/conditions for that part of the country, and just general ways of dealing with winter conditions. Knowledge trumps anything in your bag. As wornoutboots stated, your mindset and mental fortitude should form the base on which your journey begins. Can't wait to hear how things go.
The weather in Georgia and NC that time of year can be similar to Scotland then--cold and wet, possibly quite cold and snowy. Maybe you could at least take a quick test trip around Fort William to see if you can keep warm in December before you take the plunge in January.
stranger
09-16-2013, 04:16
Prepare for long nights in your sleeping bag, travelling in wet snow is very challenging, for example I can usually bank on hiking 15-25 miles per day, but in snow I wouldn't want to do more than 10, it's a game changer IMO.
Alleghanian Orogeny
09-16-2013, 05:18
--cold and wet, possibly quite cold and snowy.
And quite possibly periods of time below zero degrees F with hurricane force winds.
The game-changer is elevation. Once you're above, say, 3,500', and surely at 4,000' and above, the chances of seeing 3-4 days of high winds out of the N-NW, daytime highs in the teens or 20s, and single digit to below zero overnight lows is never out of the realm of possibilities. The southern quarter of the trail includes the Smokies, the Roan Highlands, and Mount Rogers, collectively the highest elevations along the trail south of the Whites in NH. And, as noted mid-January sunrise will be around 7:45 with sunset by 5:45, so 10 hour days and 14 hour nights.
Remember the winds and temps pulled down by Hurricane Sandy last year--the SOBO fellow marooned for 2-3 nights in the Smokies before being helicoptered out had endured--barely--at least a couple of days of daytime highs in the 20s--in October.
AO
Dachstein Mitts- A blast from the past. I was wondering just the other day if they were still available. Thanks, internet!I guess my OR over mitts are still acceptable winter gear. I also have the gaiters. Highly recommended for winter travel.
Choose your sleeping bag wisely. Not only will you need one that is rated around -18 C to -12 C, the inner girth should be adequate to allow for wearing ALL of your clothes inside the bag. And as light as possible without sacrificing warmth.
While you may think that you can get to a shelter every night, chances are good that you may not. A proper winter shelter could make the difference between reasonable comfort and disaster. Even in a shelter, setting up a tent to protect you from the wind and blowing precipitation may be a good idea.
I wouldn't dream of venturing out in winter wearing the mostly fabric, low cut trail runners that are in vogue for summer travel. Whatever you choose for footwear, size them large enough for at least 1 and probably 2 pairs of heavy wool socks. Like these Dachstein socks. And a Dachstein hat too. Folks in Austria know something about playing in the snow and keeping all of your digits.
http://www.sweatersintl.com/norsocks.html
Alcohol stoves won't work. Gas canister stoves are marginal. White gas stoves rule in winter!
You'll need a pack suitable for all this stuff.
Good luck! Have fun!
Wayne
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Just to outline, I've done lots of hiking in the past, just none for more than 3/4 days at a time, and therefore never had to worry too much about having the perfect kit. I'm in good shape, and used to working in the cold (running abseil sessions at -20 isn't fun!) but I am aware this is a massive undertaking and that I might well fail. A test go does seem like a must though.
One more thing I don't see mentioned above.
All of the weather calamities already mentioned: cold, sleet, freezing rain, high winds bring with them the greatest danger of all: Falling limbs and/or falling trees. Either of which could ruin your whole day if they landed on you. Choose your campsites carefully. Winter is obviously one time when shelters are probably the best place to be. Protect your gear and food from the critters.
Wayne
inspectorgene
09-16-2013, 07:26
As one poster said, you are usually near a road of some sort on that stretch, and surprisingly most always in cell phone reception. Bring a cheap cell phone in case you need to bail out!
I repeat--it is fairly similar to northern Scotland at the same time of year. I've hiked in both. If you can deal with Scotland, you can deal with Georgia and North Carolina in the winter. I'd recommend a test trip around Fort William before you make e long trip to the US.
There's a lot more daylight in the southern US in the winter!
Slo-go'en
09-16-2013, 11:23
Also keep in mind that working in the cold and living in the cold 24/7 are two very different things.
Also, take good maps so you can determine the best route to get out quickly, if the situation arises. The AT guides are great, but don't give you the information you need on other trails. You need that information to safely hike in winter at elevation.
Also, take good maps so you can determine the best route to get out quickly, if the situation arises. The AT guides are great, but don't give you the information you need on other trails. You need that information to safely hike in winter at elevation.
Low information hiking is best left for summertime. Bailing out happens with winter conditions. Having a good map can make the difference between bailing out to the middle of nowhere or taking another trail to a highway.
Another Kevin
09-16-2013, 17:26
Looking at some of these photos, wouldn't you need a four season tent?
Tipi Walter says that you do, so I won't argue. He's forgotten more about winter hiking than I'll ever learn.
That said, so far I do OK with a three-season tent fairly well into the snow season. I don't overnight in deep winter if I can help it. If you know how to pick your site and shelter your tent from the wind (stay away from ridges, streams and cold sinks, camp on the east side of hills, build a windbreak by piling brush or banking snow, pitch tight and low to the ground, .....) it works OK. Sometimes you have to get up in the middle of the night to shovel the rainfly. A four-season tent has a stronger set of poles. It'll take a heavier snow load and a stronger wind.A four season tent would make for a better night's sleep and a more pleasant time if you have to spend a day hunkered down, but it's not the first thing, or even the fourth, that you need to get.
You are going to need a 4 season tent a damn WARM sleeping bag and a lot of PRAYING to do that section in January, Since you have already stated that you've got zero Winter hiking experience I URGE you not to do it cause the AT in January can and will be BRUTALLY COLD so with that said GOOD LUCK.
bangorme
09-16-2013, 19:02
Just a guess, what would everything would think the impact would be on pack weight (Spring/Summer/Fall vs Winter)? I'm thinking at least 15%.
Just a guess, what would everything would think the impact would be on pack weight (Spring/Summer/Fall vs Winter)? I'm thinking at least 15%.
My winter kit is 6# heavier then my 3 season kit.
atmilkman
09-16-2013, 19:17
Mags turned me on to these http://www.sweatersintl.com/woolmittens.html best investment i made. i have a shell over mitten http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___76029
Do you use these 2 products together as a single system?
WorldPeaceAndStuff
09-16-2013, 19:24
And quite possibly periods of time below zero degrees F with hurricane force winds.
The game-changer is elevation. Once you're above, say, 3,500', and surely at 4,000' and above, the chances of seeing 3-4 days of high winds out of the N-NW, daytime highs in the teens or 20s, and single digit to below zero overnight lows is never out of the realm of possibilities. The southern quarter of the trail includes the Smokies, the Roan Highlands, and Mount Rogers, collectively the highest elevations along the trail south of the Whites in NH. And, as noted mid-January sunrise will be around 7:45 with sunset by 5:45, so 10 hour days and 14 hour nights.
Remember the winds and temps pulled down by Hurricane Sandy last year--the SOBO fellow marooned for 2-3 nights in the Smokies before being helicoptered out had endured--barely--at least a couple of days of daytime highs in the 20s--in October.
AO
I'd say your weather description starts as low as 3200'.
bangorme
09-16-2013, 19:33
My winter kit is 6# heavier then my 3 season kit.
I'm guessing that's 20-25% ?
Duramax22
09-16-2013, 20:12
Iv done a fair share of winter hiking in North Carolina and tennessee both low and high elevation and in my opinion what it all boils down to is common sense. Its cold out, If your wet get dry, if your cold get warm, control your body temp and sweating, water freezes when its cold, fuel canisters lack performance, 35 degree rain is miserable, dont eat snow it lowers body temp and waste calories, all the things you already know from playing in the snow when you were a little kid.
Another Kevin
09-16-2013, 21:01
My winter kit is 6# heavier then my 3 season kit.
Wow, how do you manage that? My snowshoes, crampons and ice axe weigh more than that by themselves, and that's before I count the weight of a Whisperlite rather than an alcohol stove, the large quantity of fuel needed for melting show, the winter-weight sleeping bag, the extra crash pad (my Thermarest isn't enough in winter!) and the puffy clothing.
Wow, how do you manage that? My snowshoes, crampons and ice axe weigh more than that by themselves, and that's before I count the weight of a Whisperlite rather than an alcohol stove, the large quantity of fuel needed for melting show, the winter-weight sleeping bag, the extra crash pad (my Thermarest isn't enough in winter!) and the puffy clothing.
My winter kit FOR THE SOUTHERN AT includes almost none of the things you list. It does include a zero-degree sleeping bag, some warm clothes, more food than during the summer (an extra day's worth) at least two light sources, a CCF pad to go on top of the inflatable, and Katoola micro-spikes. I replace the Gatorade bottles with Nalgenes, which can hold boiling water, and can be immersed in boiling water if they are full of ice. An alcohol stove will work fine, but I bring a lot of fuel for making hot drinks. Or if I'm with my husband, we'll bring a Svea. (Melting snow for water isn't part of the picture in NC and Georgia, even in winter. There is usually free-flowing water to be found.)
My winter kit FOR THE SOUTHERN AT includes almost none of the things you list. It does include a zero-degree sleeping bag, some warm clothes, more food than during the summer (an extra day's worth) at least two light sources, a CCF pad to go on top of the inflatable, and Katoola micro-spikes. I replace the Gatorade bottles with Nalgenes, which can hold boiling water, and can be immersed in boiling water if they are full of ice. An alcohol stove will work fine, but I bring a lot of fuel for making hot drinks. Or if I'm with my husband, we'll bring a Svea. (Melting snow for water isn't part of the picture in NC and Georgia, even in winter. There is usually free-flowing water to be found.)
I agree with Marta. I have hiked most of the first quarter of the AT in the winter. Will you have some snow, yes. Ice, Yes. Cold, yes. deep snow, maybe. If you are flexible with your schedule AND you enjoy the challenge then it can be a great time. The views are better, you will go days without seeing anyone and there is a certain beauty in the harshness of the season. A white gas stove may be a nice to have, certainly not a must in most cases. I found flowing water in all places. As always YMMV.
SipseyFreak
09-16-2013, 21:58
I agree with Malto ... Shelters on the GA/NC sections are going to be your best bet if you can get to one each night. Keep up with the 5-day forecasts if you have a good phone, especially before you get on the Smokies sections. You will get wet and cold, so plan accordingly--use good sense. You will spend some time during your zeros drying your gear. Don't be reluctant to spend an extra day in town. If you're used to hiking alone, you will enjoy your trip--snow makes the woods magical. Expect everything--you'll probably encounter it. Oh, and on day 3 or 4, when you come over Blood Mtn, the white blazes are on the rocks on the ground and may be covered with snow. Save daylight to hunt for the trail up there.
Get our your checkbook and buy the best gear you can---it is absolutely too late once you are on the trail. I had a 0 d bag for late Nov. worked well but I am a cold sleeper, I would get a -10--- -25, but you are looking at $600+ just for the bag.........
Alleghanian Orogeny
09-17-2013, 08:18
I'd say your weather description starts as low as 3200'.
I wouldn't argue against that one bit. I spent many a bitter cold day in Boone back in the Paleozoic Era, with daytime highs in the teens and 20s and subzero nights. Plus, we had to posthole to class in 3' of snow, and it was uphill--both ways.
AO
inspectorgene
09-17-2013, 08:39
I wouldn't argue against that one bit. I spent many a bitter cold day in Boone back in the Paleozoic Era, with daytime highs in the teens and 20s and subzero nights. Plus, we had to posthole to class in 3' of snow, and it was uphill--both ways.
AO
I spent the coldest winter of my life early one spring in Boone, NC... :)
Another Kevin
09-17-2013, 13:59
My winter kit FOR THE SOUTHERN AT includes almost none of the things you list. It does include a zero-degree sleeping bag, some warm clothes, more food than during the summer (an extra day's worth) at least two light sources, a CCF pad to go on top of the inflatable, and Katoola micro-spikes. I replace the Gatorade bottles with Nalgenes, which can hold boiling water, and can be immersed in boiling water if they are full of ice. An alcohol stove will work fine, but I bring a lot of fuel for making hot drinks. Or if I'm with my husband, we'll bring a Svea. (Melting snow for water isn't part of the picture in NC and Georgia, even in winter. There is usually free-flowing water to be found.)
OK, I get the point WHEN YOU SHOUT. Can you tell that I'm a damn-yankee, and used to the conditions Up North? But except for the traction gear, your kit does indeed include all the things I mentioned. 0-degree bag (although around here in deep winter a -20 bag is required. I don't go out ovenight then), puffy clothes, extra crash pad, microspikes, lots of fuel. The traction gear is heavy, but there are many trails Up North that can't be negotiated safely without it. 4-6 foot snowpacks aren't uncommon in the peaks.
But I'm getting the distinct impression that what the Georgians would call a winter kit is only a little beyond what the New Englanders would call a three-season kit. Or else the Georgians would say that the seasons in New England are Winter, June, July and August..
Short days, long cold nights, dress warm.......................sleeping bag ratings "lie", would bring a liner.
OK, I get the point WHEN YOU SHOUT. Can you tell that I'm a damn-yankee, and used to the conditions Up North? But except for the traction gear, your kit does indeed include all the things I mentioned. 0-degree bag (although around here in deep winter a -20 bag is required. I don't go out ovenight then), puffy clothes, extra crash pad, microspikes, lots of fuel. The traction gear is heavy, but there are many trails Up North that can't be negotiated safely without it. 4-6 foot snowpacks aren't uncommon in the peaks.
But I'm getting the distinct impression that what the Georgians would call a winter kit is only a little beyond what the New Englanders would call a three-season kit. Or else the Georgians would say that the seasons in New England are Winter, June, July and August..
You got it. Three-season kit is about right. Serious winter mountaineering gear is overkill.
Ice axe and snowshoes aren't part of the package, which reduces the total weight quite a bit. I don't bring all that much puffy clothing either. I've got a Raku sleeping bag, which takes the place of down jacket and all warm camp wear except a set of micro fleece long johns and some wool socks. Daytime wear for me is usually the same micro fleece long johns (which are warm when wet), fleece pants and a jacket, and a silnylon jacket and pants as a wind proof layer when it's extremely cold.
You can get by without traction devices of any kind, but minimal spikes make walking a lot easier and more pleasant. Ice is much more common on the Trail than deep snow.
While it can get cold, sustained cold unbroken by relatively warm daytime temps is pretty unusual. It might be down in the teens during the night, but up in the fifties during the day.
One can also eek out a bit more warmth by avoiding shelters, which tend to be in high, airy places, and pitching a tent snugly in a lower-elevation spot out of the wind.
The other thing about the southern AT is that it is well supplied with hiker services. Other than the Smokies, which might take five or six days to negotiate, one can go to town every two or three days, check weather forecasts, warm up and dry out, reload with food and fuel, and wait out storms. Expensive, true, but the usual tactic for the inexperienced hiker.
IMO, anyone who has taken winter trips in the north would be amazed at how user-friendly a winter hike in Georgia, NC, and TN can be. That said, if a person embarks on a January northbound AT hike without any prior winter camping experience of any kind, a lot of learning is going to have to take place very quickly, and the hiker is probably not going to be having a lot of fun.