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Tuckahoe
10-02-2013, 00:21
The general feeling that is apparent on so many hiking/camping forums is that we should be supporting our cottage manufacturers and that we should not buy from the big commercial made in China companies. A post in another thread got me thinking about this point...

At what point is a manufacturer a cottage producer, rather than just a small or moderately sized company?

Must a cottage producer manufacture all of their product line in house by their own hands? How many people can they employ? How much can they farm out to either domestic or foreign production shops? One item from their line? Half?

And why should I give preference to a cottage manufacturer?

Hill Ape
10-02-2013, 03:20
I've always thought it was mostly because they are "one of us" If you can call on the telephone, the "ceo" of the companies answers, you know him on a first name basis, its a home line, and he makes whatever it is in his garage... it qualifies. In general though, I just look for quality gear that best suits my need.

stranger
10-02-2013, 04:29
Supporting cottage companies won't change the outdoor industry, we aren't a big enough market, if the market tripled...we still wouldn't have enough purchasing power to change anything in terms of how the larger companies operate. I won't say who told me this information, but he owns a major backpack company with over 1000 deals just in the United States.

But on the cottage companies, it's not as it always seems...for example Lightheart Gear has some of their stuff made in China, where as Western Mountaineering is still American made to my knowledge. Western would be a much larger operation than Lightheart however.

Also, believe it or not...the quality in those foreign factories are generally vastly superior to the quality coming out of US garages. Another time I was talking with a very VERY well known and loved backpack company about this and they basically said they couldn't compete with the quality and consistency coming out of competitors in Vietnam, just for some comparison.

So I would ask WHY do you support cottage companies? Is it political? Is it to support the little guys? Is it to buy American?

It's a complex question.

Abela
10-02-2013, 06:19
I think it is generally agreed that a cottage company stops being a cottage company when they start having resellers and/or sell their gear in big box stores.

Take for example Klymit. They started off with some sweet seed money, got their business going, got a ton more capital investment, pushed into the big box stores, started selling internationally, had the big bucks to have a booth at places like the Outdoor Retailer Conventions (something that most cottage companies cannot afford any more) and etcetera. In the eyes of many they stopped being a cottage company.

But let's also be realistic here... there are not very many USA companies that have gone from being cottage to big name.

Than you have companies like SMD that have for all intents and purposes meet the requirements, yet are still a cottage company. They have resellers here in America and a big retailer in Japan, and smaller retailers throughout Europe. Yet they only have two or three employees IIRC. It just seems hard to no longer categorize a company that has under a half-dozen people working for them as not a cottage company anymore.

lush242000
10-02-2013, 06:51
Buy what you enjoy. Most of the time I shop at REI or Walmart. Why? They have stores close to home and I prefer to visit a store rather than order online.


Sent from somewhere.

Tuckahoe
10-02-2013, 06:51
I've always thought it was mostly because they are "one of us" If you can call on the telephone, the "ceo" of the companies answers, you know him on a first name basis, its a home line, and he makes whatever it is in his garage... it qualifies. In general though, I just look for quality gear that best suits my need.


Supporting cottage companies won't change the outdoor industry, we aren't a big enough market, if the market tripled...we still wouldn't have enough purchasing power to change anything in terms of how the larger companies operate. I won't say who told me this information, but he owns a major backpack company with over 1000 deals just in the United States.

But on the cottage companies, it's not as it always seems...for example Lightheart Gear has some of their stuff made in China, where as Western Mountaineering is still American made to my knowledge. Western would be a much larger operation than Lightheart however.

Also, believe it or not...the quality in those foreign factories are generally vastly superior to the quality coming out of US garages. Another time I was talking with a very VERY well known and loved backpack company about this and they basically said they couldn't compete with the quality and consistency coming out of competitors in Vietnam, just for some comparison.

So I would ask WHY do you support cottage companies? Is it political? Is it to support the little guys? Is it to buy American?

It's a complex question.

I think that the two of you have expressed many of my sentiments.

Using Hill Ape's standard I tend to think that many of the folks that are making alcohol stoves are good examples of what cottage manufacturers are -- folks like Zelph, Tinny or Smokeeater. Another at the cottage end of is Hawk Vittles.

Stranger, I am glad that you used Lightheart Gear as an example, as I have always thought that Lightheart was an example of what cottage manufacturing could or should be. I have been under the Impression that Judy approached the enterprise as a business, which is where I think many of the cottage folks stumble especially as they become successful. They never learn to stop treating their work as a hobby.

One of the reasons I started this thread was that I often get the feeling that there is an automatic assumption that the little garage production guys are noble saints fighting against the big evil corporate big box guys. Its not an assumption that I hold.

stranger
10-02-2013, 07:23
Nah...they're there to make good products and most of all, make money. Hard to run a business when your not turning a decent profit. However I don't believe the bigger companies give a damn about cutting edge products.

Dana Design and Gregory both started at cottage companies, both became huge. ULA has been sold, so has Golite, REI bought Moss Tents, MSR bought Swift Tents. There are examples of cottage going big, perhaps not many as cottage products lack mass appeal - thus interest from larger companies.

ULA seems to be doing it right, but I would love to see their books, I wonder how much they clear per annum.

1azarus
10-02-2013, 07:44
i think the best test before buying from a cottage industry manufacturer is that they make as good or better gear for your purposes than a larger manufacturer and will provide as good or better service. a large percentage of what i hike with is made by a cottage industry because the gear passes that test -- to the point where comparable gear just isn't even available on the larger market. ...yes, i get good feelings from supporting the little guy, but that only works for me if the quality of product and design are superior. wow. i may actually be more excited about cottage industries than about hammocks. go figure.

HeartFire
10-02-2013, 07:47
I've always thought it was mostly because they are "one of us" If you can call on the telephone, the "ceo" of the companies answers, you know him on a first name basis, its a home line, and he makes whatever it is in his garage... it qualifies. In general though, I just look for quality gear that best suits my need.

The "CEO" isn't always a "HIM". In my case it's "HER"



This is an interesting topic, I started LightHeart Gear on a whim - I thought it would be fun to make a few tents here and there in my spare time. After all, I'm a nurse practitioner and know almost nothing about business (but I have been sewing all my life and and did go to design school). The tents took off faster than I could make them, hence the outsourcing to China - yes, when done right, the quality that can come out of a major sewing factory with all the best equipment and trained stitchers is better than what can be done on a single sewing machine in your garage. My basement soon filled with sewing machines that do different jobs, and as I got so much flack from hikers about 'made in China' I now opened a shop in Asheville and ALL production will be done here from now on - I still have a few tents from China in stock, but when they are sold out - ALL​ my products will be flying American Flags.

Rasty
10-02-2013, 07:54
The "CEO" isn't always a "HIM". In my case it's "HER"



This is an interesting topic, I started LightHeart Gear on a whim - I thought it would be fun to make a few tents here and there in my spare time. After all, I'm a nurse practitioner and know almost nothing about business (but I have been sewing all my life and and did go to design school). The tents took off faster than I could make them, hence the outsourcing to China - yes, when done right, the quality that can come out of a major sewing factory with all the best equipment and trained stitchers is better than what can be done on a single sewing machine in your garage. My basement soon filled with sewing machines that do different jobs, and as I got so much flack from hikers about 'made in China' I now opened a shop in Asheville and ALL production will be done here from now on - I still have a few tents from China in stock, but when they are sold out - ALL​ my products will be flying American Flags.

Thank you for bringing production home. Which production facility is easier to manage?

moytoy
10-02-2013, 08:06
The cottage industry is a Labor of love for profit and without the profit it's a hobby.

SteelCut
10-02-2013, 08:38
The "CEO" isn't always a "HIM". In my case it's "HER"

This is an interesting topic, I started LightHeart Gear on a whim - I thought it would be fun to make a few tents here and there in my spare time. After all, I'm a nurse practitioner and know almost nothing about business (but I have been sewing all my life and and did go to design school). The tents took off faster than I could make them, hence the outsourcing to China - yes, when done right, the quality that can come out of a major sewing factory with all the best equipment and trained stitchers is better than what can be done on a single sewing machine in your garage. My basement soon filled with sewing machines that do different jobs, and as I got so much flack from hikers about 'made in China' I now opened a shop in Asheville and ALL production will be done here from now on - I still have a few tents from China in stock, but when they are sold out - ALL​ my products will be flying American Flags.

HeartFire, I'm in Asheville. Does your shop have a showroom ?

treesloth
10-02-2013, 09:11
Nah...they're there to make good products and most of all, make money. Hard to run a business when your not turning a decent profit. However I don't believe the bigger companies give a damn about cutting edge products.

Dana Design and Gregory both started at cottage companies, both became huge. ULA has been sold, so has Golite, REI bought Moss Tents, MSR bought Swift Tents. There are examples of cottage going big, perhaps not many as cottage products lack mass appeal - thus interest from larger companies.

ULA seems to be doing it right, but I would love to see their books, I wonder how much they clear per annum.

I asked Joe Valesko recently to do a mod that another cottage manufacturer refused to do for me on my original order. He turned it down, citing being slammed with orders. I was very surprised to hear that he had about 30 peeps under his employ. Seems like he's doing it right as well.

HeartFire
10-02-2013, 09:23
SteelCut, You can always come and visit at the shop. Not much of a 'showroom' but I do have a tent set up in the office. - We're actually in Arden, off of Old Shoals rd near Airport Rd.

HeartFire
10-02-2013, 09:30
Thank you for bringing production home. Which production facility is easier to manage?

Well, it certainly was 'easier' to have them made in China, I didn't have to do a single thing - sent in my order, and a few months later got the shipment. Now, I have to 'go to work' everyday, manage the shop - I don't get to go hiking nearly as much as I used to, I have all sorts of added responsibilities - employees, etc, but it's fun and I'm not complaining.

Coffee
10-02-2013, 09:38
I was able to backpack about 25 days in total this year (so far) and one thing that really surprised me was how very few hikers seem to use cottage gear. I didn't keep track, but I'd say that at least 90% of backpackers I met had mainstream gear that could have been purchased somewhere like REI. I have a mix of cottage and mainstream gear but my most important gear (pack and tent) are cottage. It seems to me that if the small cottage manufacturers could get distribution they would sell much more gear. There's a huge difference between the popularity of cottage gear on a site like this and on the actual trails.

Miner
10-02-2013, 10:45
I buy many things from the cottage manufacturers because their stuff is lighter and more closely matches what I want then what I can buy at REI or other outfitters. Its got nothing to do with made in China or not. The biggest buyers of Cottage Manufacturers are people looking to go UL. You see more of their stuff amongst long trail thru-hikers and those who are obsessed with being UL or SUL. You don't see as as nearly as much of it on the AT as you do out west on the PCT or CDT.

As for what is a Cottage manufacturer. Its usually pretty obvious since they make all their gear onsite and don't have a large number of employees. During the summer season, they have a backlog of orders and can't ship what you ordered for a couple of weeks since they normally make it when you order since having a large inventory costs big money until it sells. Usually the owner/founder was involved with their initial designs and continues to be involved in that.

yaduck9
10-02-2013, 11:01
And why should I give preference to a cottage manufacturer?[/QUOTE]




In my humble opinion, one should first look to reputable cottage industries first, because they are the innovators. They drive the rest of the industry to produce better products, more diverse products.

Just my 02 cents.

Mags
10-02-2013, 11:04
I buy many things from the cottage manufacturers because their stuff is lighter and more closely matches what I want then what I can buy at REI or other outfitters.

That's why I buy cottage as well. Though, I must confess, I do try to buy American made goods when practical. That can sometimes be a factor in buying one manufacturer over another (not always)

yellowsirocco
10-02-2013, 11:13
I just buy whatever piece of gear fits my system best. Sometimes it is a place like REI and sometimes it is a cottage company. I have no sentiment about which I choose. If you are going with exotic fabrics and construction then you have to buy cottage, but I don't have any loyalty to them.

Tuckahoe
10-02-2013, 12:03
Well, it certainly was 'easier' to have them made in China, I didn't have to do a single thing - sent in my order, and a few months later got the shipment. Now, I have to 'go to work' everyday, manage the shop - I don't get to go hiking nearly as much as I used to, I have all sorts of added responsibilities - employees, etc, but it's fun and I'm not complaining.

The fact that your standard tent was made in China never bothered me. I imagine that by having some of your production overseas it allowed you to continue tent design and testing, the manufacture of custome tents and still continue to deliver tents to customers in a timely manner.

Without access to overseas production, things could have been different and the story would be about a cottage company who couldnt deliver tents. And now you are able to bring production home! Congratulation and good luck!!

Tuckahoe
10-02-2013, 12:12
In my humble opinion, one should first look to reputable cottage industries first, because they are the innovators. They drive the rest of the industry to produce better products, more diverse products.

Just my 02 cents.

And one of the things that I have noticed is that there are a few companies out there that are just small companies at best, actively cultivating the image of a cottage producer.

Coffee
10-02-2013, 12:28
I'm not normally someone who is bothered by buying things made in China but for backpacking gear (especially UL gear) it sure is nice to be able to talk to the people actually making the gear who have used it themselves for thru hikes. And who can stand behind, repair and customize gear as needed. I'm not sure I would reclassify a company away from being a "cottage" manufacturer just because they grow and have lots of profits. I think that "cottage" is much more of a mentality and way of doing business than something defined by size alone.

chall
10-02-2013, 14:51
I have limited experience with the cottage industries, but to me, they are the ones that personally respond to emails about your questions or concerns. I emailed John from BearPaw about recommendations on what guyline type and lengths to use for the tarp I got from him, and he took the time to give me advice. I emailed John from Borah Gear about a bivy, and two weeks after I ordered it, I emailed him to ask about when it might get shipped. He responded by saying that he upgraded it to priority shipping for free because he was a little behind schedule. Both cases are first class customer service! That's my reasoning to continue to support these companies.

Deadeye
10-02-2013, 15:18
But let's also be realistic here... there are not very many USA companies that have gone from being cottage to big name.

I haven't read all the thread to see how many responses have picked up on this. I strongly disagree! Ben & Jerry's, JogBra, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, Apple, Clean Harbors, and hundreds more started in small spaces or garages. It's the American Way.

OCDave
10-02-2013, 15:33
I'm not religious about it but, I try to buy vegetables grown close to my home from families who grow them. It is about getting a great, fresh product but, it is also because I know $5 spent with them means something entirely different than $5 spent at the local grocery store. I believe in rewarding the guy who trudges out into the field. I try to choose seafood that is harvested in a way that is mindful of the oceans' ecology. I loved orange roughy as a kid, but as an adult I realize that the next one caught could very well be the tipping point leading to the extiction of the species. I will always try to buy from a company that employs my neighbor than one that off-shores their labor costs.

I believe the bumper sticker reads "Think Globally, Act locally". My interepretation: Make your everyday choices ones that support your view of an ideal world. The effect is cumulative; exponetial when your friends an family make choices in the same fashion. Again, I am not religious about it but, when I find myself coveting a new hardshell because of the brand logo, I try to take a step back and consider what the logo REALLY would say about me.

How one spends their dollars is more meaningful than how they vote in presidential elections.

mtnkngxt
10-02-2013, 15:47
I use a lot of Zpacks, MLD, Qiwiz, Gossamer Gear, BlackRock, GooseFeet, Western Mountaineering, and other small companies. That said, Montane, OR, Icebreaker, Montrail, Mountain Hardwear, and Montbell also resides in my pack.

We're lucky that we have so many cottage manufactures and small companies that serve us, but I won't bash on the big names either. Many of those products are much more critical to my survival in the backcountry than I'm willing to risk on DIY or basement sewn gear.

The exception I'll put up is Luke's and Zpacks shells. They are tested and proven well made and effective.

When it is 10 below and there's wet snow though, I'm sticking with Arcteryx.

hobbs
10-02-2013, 16:58
I took a break from backpacking for about 10 yrs.When I came back UL was just beginning..I came to love cottage manufacturers because they were changing how we approached gear being weighing less than large manufacturers..I also get the added bennefit of supporting am american manufacterer..Its a win win for me..

Kerosene
10-02-2013, 19:29
The following represents a bit of thread drift...something I usually try to avoid...and may be viewed as violating one of our TOS, but I'm only trying to add to the "Made in America" comments above.

--------------------

While I'm a firm believer in the benefits of capitalism and the free market, like other economic systems it has its shortcomings. In the case of non-renewable natural resources (e.g., oil, coal, ores, minerals, wild fish, et al) I don't feel that the open market adequately prices for the true cost of exporting these resources. Global competition forces down the price of these "commodities" until they become increasingly scarce, at which time the price suddenly skyrockets as if no one had predicted years earlier that this would happen. There's an economic term for this "raping" of natural resources that I don't recall right now, but the market isn't incorporating full costs, either because no one really understands the true cost, someone is ignoring them, or an entrepreneur is looking to maximize profit in the short run without a view to the future. In some ways, it is similar to the slash-and-burn farming communities in the Amazon who pick-up-and-move once they deplete the soil; it works for quite a while until you run out of nourished soil for some reason.

Even the shipping of foodstuffs across wide regions is a form of resource depletion, especially if the grower is depleting their local resources (an aquifer, nitrogen, air/soil/water quality) to maximize yield; it's just not a sustainable model in the long run, regardless of whether it is healthier or supports your local economy.

Re-reading this, you might think that I'm somewhat of a zealot or enthusiast, but I'm actually just a computer guy who sees a lot of benefits of supply-and-demand while recognizing that it manifests itself strangely in many cases. There will always be trade-offs (kind of like blazing a trail for thousands of hikers while preaching the tenets of LNT), but there needs to be conscious discussion of how to make those trade-offs. I see some evidence that we're starting to get it, but we have a long way to go and until the largest developing countries "get it", it may not matter.

To get back to the thread topic, I buy things from China all the time. If I have a choice in the matter, and the overall value and benefits are comparable, then I have no problem with buying Local. I do place a lot of value in being able to get support from the designer and provide feedback, but that only goes so far.

Another Kevin
10-02-2013, 20:51
Hmm. I don't think I have a matter of principle whether to go cottage or big-company. My general rule is to go dirtbag unless I can really gain a big benefit from good stuff, in which case, go with the best I can afford.

My day pack is cottage-industry, because the lady that makes them (well, employs the people that make them..) was able to fit me. I carry some heavy stuff in it like a big clunky laptop computer and several notebooks, so I wanted a waistbelt and an internal frame even on a small pack. None of the big manufacturers had that in my torso length, but I was able to get it from her. It was god-awfully expensive, but I use it every single day. She's local to me.

My overnight pack is big-company. It's heavier than it might be, but it was a terrific pack for the price. (I got it for about $80 at an REI garage sale.) And I'm not a long-distance hiker, so I don't use it every day.

My sleeping bag is REI. Again, it's not exactly the best, but it was fairly cheap and Good Enough. Surely better than "big box."

My 1-person tent is cottage, because that was the next area that I could win big on pack weight. My 2-person tent is REI.

My 2-person cook kit is GSI. My 1-person cook kit is a K-Mart grease strainer and a homemade stove.

My outdoor clothing runs the gamut from REI to Salvation Army. (None of it's cottage, nor high-end.)

My winter gear - except perhaps the Kahtoola microspikes - is all big company (Komperdell poles, Outdoor Research gaiters, Sorel boots, MSR snowshoes, ...) because what else is there?

Wise Old Owl
10-02-2013, 21:06
I would rather send 100 percent of my money to a guy or gal working in their basement to make something that I really wanted vs something that is mass produced and barely fills my needs... I really like working with people!

So far

General - made me a custom tarp
Stormcrow made me a 3/4 underquit
Cedar Tree made me campfire booties.
Qwiz made me a small and large ti wood stove. And was exstreamly helpful when I got stuck on a issue (should have read directions)


And some young guy in Singapore made me a custom solar panel that arrived last week after 8 months and I am testing this 5 ounce bugger as its 5 volts an 1 amp! so I will get back to you on the results... soon.

I am very happy with my lightweight stuff...

Odd Man Out
10-02-2013, 22:08
A cottage company is a hobby that got out of control.

Sir-Packs-Alot
10-03-2013, 09:23
(In response to Judy from Lightheart Gear's post above) That's GREAT Judy ! (Applause !!!). Funny - I was thinking of you specifically when I started reading this thread and "the outsourcing to China thing" was not a major issue (it was not major enough to prevent me from getting one of your great tents last year!) BUT ... I have to admit that it bothered me just a little. Take care !

QiWiz
10-03-2013, 13:35
The cottage industry is a Labor of love for profit and without the profit it's a hobby.

+1
I would call myself a "hobbyist gear maker". I started out making things for my own use; then had people ask me if I would ever make some to sell.
One thing led to another, and I'm still not sure where it will lead eventually.
I have now involved one of my sons to help out as demand has increased.

I would agree with those who go to get the gear they want from the best supplier.
I buy a lot of my own gear from cottage gear makers, because I can't find it elsewhere and customer service has been great.
I buy some gear from established gear makers for the same reasons.

Theosus
10-03-2013, 22:39
I haven't read all the thread to see how many responses have picked up on this. I strongly disagree! Ben & Jerry's, JogBra, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, Apple, Clean Harbors, and hundreds more started in small spaces or garages. It's the American Way.

Camelbak, as well... It started with one guy putting a plastic bag of water in a sock he sewed to a t-shirt for a cycling race.
I consider Hennessy a "former cottage" industry, and like them even though they got big and most of their stuff is made manufactured in China now. Face it, with unions and such the only way some companies can survive and compete is to send manufacturing overseas. It's our fault as a nation of demanding workers. Why pay someone $20 an hour plus health benefits to sew an item for two hours, when the same item can be made for $1 an hour with no benefits... there's no way someone would buy a hammock from them for $400 just because it was "made in america". And should we penalize someone for having a great idea and successfully marketing it?
Some things I will get from cottage vendors, and some things I won't. I bought my quilt set from Hammock Gear. Great people to deal with, and great gear. But when do you tell them "I'm sorry, you make great stuff and all, but now that you are successful and big, I won't buy from you any more"?
Comparably, I haven't seen a backpack I would buy from a cottage vendor. Frankly some of them look ugly or shoddy. They may be great packs, and I'm sure they serve people well (or they wouldnt stay in business). I bought mine from Deuter and have really enjoyed it. It is a solid, well-made pack that still looks nice, despite my being in some crappy situations. Some have criticized them for moving production from Germany to Vietnam, but they had to, to stay competitive, and you have to admit, those fourteen year old kids in Vietnam can sew a dam good seam...

Tuckahoe
10-04-2013, 00:03
I consider Hennessy a "former cottage" industry, and like them even though they got big and most of their stuff is made manufactured in China now. Face it, with unions and such the only way some companies can survive and compete is to send manufacturing overseas. It's our fault as a nation of demanding workers. Why pay someone $20 an hour plus health benefits to sew an item for two hours, when the same item can be made for $1 an hour with no benefits... there's no way someone would buy a hammock from them for $400 just because it was "made in america". And should we penalize someone for having a great idea and successfully marketing it?


I consider myself pretty anti-union, but I think it is a bit of over simplification to blame overseas manufacturing all on unions. And while some companies may have to look overseas for manufacturing, others are quite capable of keeping manufacturing in the US and remaining competitive.

Ever notice that the bulk of Cascade Designs products are made in the US? Compare the quality and pricing of Cascade's Thermarest products and Big Agnes products and you'll find them nearly the same -- one produced here, and the other produced overseasa.

I did notice that the Pocket Rocket is made in Korea, just as Snow Peak's Giga power stove. Korea happens to be one of those 1st world countries. What is it about the production of small canister stoves, that they get made in Korea, where as the rest of MSR's stoves are US made?

HeartFire
10-04-2013, 08:53
I haven't seen a backpack I would buy from a cottage vendor. Frankly some of them look ugly or shoddy. They may be great packs, and I'm sure they serve people well (or they wouldnt stay in business). I bought mine from Deuter and have really enjoyed it. .

Then you probably haven't seen Elemental Horizon packs - His packs are so well designed and, made. I have one, I love it, and, I'm very impressed with the quality of his work. (this from someone who own's a sewing business)

Mags
10-04-2013, 09:21
I can't speak for others, but a large part of why I try (and try being the operative word, not always possible) to buy Made In the USA is my father's influence.

He made his living as a sheet metal worker. I think the pride in making something here in the US, and supporting fellow US trades people, rub offed on me. It was something he and my grandfather stressed growing up. I strayed away from it when I was out on my own. In recent year, I have starting to rethink it since my father became active on FB.

In any case, it is me trying to support local when I can, basically. Nothing flashy, no huge motive. Just something simple, really.

It is not the only factor in purchasing gear, clothing or equipment, but it is something I do try to factor in when making decisions.

Mind you, I drive a used Kia so I am not exactly a purist. :)

As for unions..let's not touch that, and other political issue,..'eh? ;)

Astro
10-04-2013, 09:38
Nah...they're there to make good products and most of all, make money. Hard to run a business when your not turning a decent profit. However I don't believe the bigger companies give a damn about cutting edge products.


It is this way with most industries. Very seldom do you see innovative products being created by large companies. The bureaucracy tends to stifle that out unless you create a skunk works (which are allowed to play by different rules). Large companies are much more focused on managing than leading, controlling profits/costs and current product mix while minimizing risk than being creative. Small start ups by necessity are forced to be more creative and innovative and take on risk. Big companies may know the early bird gets the worm, but seem to driven more by knowing the second mouse gets the cheese. Therefor let someone else invest in being innovative and take the risk, and if it works we will join in.

A great example is the iPod which was not created by Apple. It was actually created by a small start up company led by a former Apple employee. Steve Jobs saw what they had invented, bought the company out, used Apple's marketing power, and as they say the rest is history. :)

atmilkman
10-04-2013, 09:50
A great example is the iPod which was not created by Apple. It was actually created by a small start up company led by a former Apple employee. Steve Jobs saw what they had invented, bought the company out, used Apple's marketing power, and as they say the rest is history. :)

Another example fairly similar is that show Shark Tank. Look how many small time innovative ideas are "bought out" more or less. Sad thing is I don't feel in most cases the innovator/creator/inventor is getting their fair share. Granted, they are getting monetary help they probably couldn't get elsewhere but I still feel they are getting beat by big money.

Odd Man Out
10-04-2013, 09:52
Then you probably haven't seen Elemental Horizon packs - His packs are so well designed and, made. I have one, I love it, and, I'm very impressed with the quality of his work. (this from someone who own's a sewing business)

Thanks for the recommendation. This is at the TOP of my shopping list. I want one!

Drybones
10-04-2013, 11:15
Most large corporations start as a "cottage " industry. If they provide a product that satisfies a customer at a reasonable price they grow into an "industry". One of the companies I have worked for was Merillat, it was started in Orville Merillat's garage and grew into what was the largest kitchen cabinet company in the country ($400,000,000 anual sales) when I worked for them.