View Full Version : Cheapest place to save weight?
I've been working on a packing list in preparation for an late March / early April 2014 NOBO. I have some backpacking experience, and I would like to be able to continue using as much gear as I currently have as possible. At first draft, my packing list gives me a base weight of 18.9pounds and, assuming 15 pounds for food and water, a pack weight of 33.9 pounds. Not the heaviest, but I tip the scales at a massive 125 pounds (This has been constant for 6, maybe 8 years. I'm sure there will be a time in my life in which I start to gain weight, but I don't see that happening in the next 6 months.), so my pack weight is really pushing 30% of my body weight. I don't have the funds to go UL and attempt a thru, but shaving some weight off my pack doesn't seem like a bad idea. A few things stuck out to me from my list:
Pack: Gregory Teton 60 - 5 lbs 6 ounces. Looking at other gear lists, this seems to be on the heavy side. Cutting 2lbs for about an investment of about $200 doesn't seem unreasonable. I would rather not go into the world of frameless / UL packs; I don't anticipate having a UL type base weight and I want a pack designed for the load I will be carrying.
Sleeping Bag: Marmot Trinity 20 - 2.9 lbs. I've had this bag for a pretty long time now, but significantly lighter bags appear to be out of my price range. The other option it seems would to be use a warmer (cooler?) bag, especially since I'm planning on a slightly later start. My main concern with going to a 30 or 35 degree bag is that I tend to get cold very easily (see body weight statement). I've spent enough time in the southern Appalachians to expect spring surprises. In addition to the bag, I have a liner on my gear list (so add another 9oz). Part of this is because I was originally planning an earlier start, but I've also read that this can be a good way to keep a down bag clean.
Sleeping Pad: Right now I have an older ThermaRest. I couldn't find a model on it, and I don't know the weight. My guess is that it is the BaseCamp or equivalent, so let's call it 2.5ish pounds. This seemed to be a no brainer to replace and so my gear list officially lists a ThermaRest Z Lite. The NeoAir looks nice too. I will have to lie down on one to see if it's worth the extra money.
These seem the most obvious places to cut weight, but am I missing something obvious (and cheap!)? I'm going for an alcohol stove and already have titanium cookware . I've done my best to reduce redundancy in my clothing (extra shorts, extra socks, extra polypro bottoms for camp because I get cold). There's nothing dumb like a hatchet in my pack.
I did have to guess weights for 21 items, so there is some error in my base and pack weight. I tried to be conservative with my estimates, but I cannot imagine the error being over a pound in either direction.
Tuckahoe
10-03-2013, 01:04
You have already noticed the weight of your pad. A Zlite or a Ridge Rest are pretty lightweight pards that are also fairly cheap. Many times its the accumilation of the seemingly minor items that adds weight. By themselves they dont weigh much but as a whole they will be noticed. I reminded myself of that when I weighed my water bottles and found that they were 4 ounces each -- that I was carrying a half pound of just water bottles. Go ahead and get yourself a scale and weigh things, it will open your eyes to what your weights are.
The usual gag is that one can loose weight without spending any money, in fact by saving on food and beer.
Now at 125lbs you totally ruined that joke.
Gregory Teton 60 - 5 lbs 6 ounces
That is indeed heavish.
There are 2 lbs something 60 L framed packs that can carry 30lbs with ease.
For example from ULA (Circuit) ,Exped (LightSpeed 60) and Osprey (Exos 58).
You don't list a shelter. Often you can drop weight there without having to suffer .
Sorry for the extra o..
BTW, I am with Tarptent so don't tell me you will only use the shelters or hang from a tree.
frogmonkey
10-03-2013, 06:12
I have a Gregory backpack as well, and it is indeed quite heavy. I absolutely love it, and it is so comfortable. As I look at my pack weight slowly creep up with all my winter gear I've struggled with whether or not to get a new, lighter backpack.
garlic08
10-03-2013, 08:06
If you can sleep comfortably on a closed-cell foam pad like a Ridgerest or Z-rest, that's pretty inexpensive. But if you plan on sleeping predominantly on shelter floors, you'll want a heavier or more expensive inflatable.
The pack is a big item. Ditto the suggestion on one of the fine ULA packs. They're pretty versatile for their weight and cost.
Ditto also the suggestion to invest in a good scale. Make a list. You'll be surprised where the ounces add up, like the water bottles mentioned above. Also, how many items are on your list, besides the 21 you have to guess at? My pre-AT packing list was something like 60 items long, pretty typical. Now it's less than 30 items. I used to bring more entertainment stuff, more "camping" stuff like a separate pad to sit on, way more spare clothing, a ground cloth...and that's weight lost for free. For me, a thru hike is a completely different mindset than a weekend backpacking trip. I pare down to bare necessities when I carry stuff for months and thousands of miles.
Many other items I cut ounces off for practically free, like using single-edged razor blades instead of a pocketknife. Or 1 oz Gatorade bottles instead of 6 oz Nalgenes. My 6 oz pack cover became a 2 oz compactor bag liner. Save four ounces just four times and that's one pound. It's hard to tell a 4 oz difference by feel--again, get a scale.
When I found out my fleece sweater weighed 24 oz, I traded it for a very nice Marmot Driclime at 12 oz and I found it on sale for $60. I now use it nearly all the time--I'm wearing it right now. Plus it packs way smaller so I was able to use a smaller pack, which saved more weight. (By the way, get the pack last for this reason.)
Franco's with Tarptent, but I'm not and I very highly recommend them.
It's unlikely you'll get it perfectly right before you start. I believe very few first-time AT hikers end the trail with exactly the same pack they started with. It's part of the journey.
Good luck, and welcome to the site.
Starchild
10-03-2013, 08:45
You have taken care of some low hanging fruit, such as the stove. The z-rest rest is a cheap fix but many find it not comfy enough and have difficulty sleeping. I would look at the clothes and see if you can get lighter weight clothes, that was my first way of reducing weight.
Unfortunately you are at the point where you need the large items upgraded. My suggestion is chose one item at a time and upgrade it fully to ultralight. Don't go for a intermediate level as that is more expensive in the long run as that would need to be replaced to get the full ultralight gear. The only exception is dirt cheap options that can save quite a bit of weight.
I'll definitely look at a getting a scale. Right now my pack list is at 40 individual items, but that's not including duplicates of anything (There are only a few - tent stakes, socks, stuff sacks) I own nor did I break down my toiletries into individual items. I'm sure there are a few things I've forgotten.
Franco / Garlic: As far as tents, right now I have an old 2-person Kelty. I didn't even bother checking it's weight since I will be buying a new tent anyways. I'm about 90% sold on the Contrail, and It's the tent I used for this list.
I have a few shakedown hikes I am planning for the fall / (Alabama) winter as I fine tune this list. It looks like simply switching to the ULA or something similar would already drop my base weight to about 16 pounds - much closer to where I want to be.
I appreciate the quick help from everyone
colorado_rob
10-03-2013, 09:04
Campmore still has these old-model Neoair short length matresses on sale for $80. 9 ounces. I have one of these and I can confirm the weight:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___40750
And I thoroughly endorse the ULA packs. I just finished nearly 1000 miles of the AT (springer to front royal) using the ULA OHM 2.0. 9 ounces or so lighter than the much more popular Circuit, but my base weight is more like 13-14 pounds. If you're up higher than that, the Circuit is probably a better choice. When I bought my Ohm 2.0, Chris from ULA actually shipped me both the OHM and the Circuit so I could try both of them out and return the one I didn't choose. Good little company. My OHM looks brand new after 8 weeks and 965 trail miles.
The absolute cheapest way to save weight is on your body. I lost 35 lbs . before my 1,000 mi hike- cost-$0....A pound is a pound is a pound.................
The absolute cheapest way to save weight is on your body. I lost 35 lbs . before my 1,000 mi hike- cost-$0....A pound is a pound is a pound.................
Uhhh...he weighs a buck and a quarter. I'd say he's already Ultralight.
bigcranky
10-03-2013, 09:56
A ULA Circuit will save you closer to 3 pounds for $200. That's a pretty good deal, and a Circuit will easily handle 30 pounds and still works well at 35. The Z-lite is great in all ways save comfort, but people much younger and lighter than I speak highly of it. In particular you won't crush the egg crate pattern so it will be softer.
Lots of little things can add up in one's pack, sometimes to a surprising degree. A $25 kitchen scale that weighs up to 5 kilos in grams and tenths of an ounce may end up saving you a lot of weight. (Plus you can use it in the kitchen when you get home :) ) Things like Nalgene bottles, multitools, big first aid or cleaning kits, various articles of clothing -- a few ounces here and there adds up to pounds pretty fast. Many of these can be fixed on the cheap -- leave them home, or replace with cheap light things.
Good luck!
tarantolk
10-03-2013, 10:10
I have a Gregory as well and although its heavier then most packs, the support it gives me is worth the weight. The pad is prob the easiest and cheapest to drop/change. I got a thermarest prolite small off campsaver & backcountry for btwn 45-55$ each. I believe it comes in at 11oz. It's not super lite but I couldn't afford a 100$ sleeping pad & it'll save you weight compared to the one you have now.
oleary92
10-03-2013, 10:49
If you have not purchased a pack yet, the GoLite jam is under 150$ and will save you about 3 lbs.
oleary92
10-03-2013, 10:55
Forgot to mention, your base weight is the total of ALL your gear including cook supplies, personals, extra cloths, so 18 will be a very low estimate. For my pack, the cloths and misc. gear (tie cord for bear bag, stuff sacks, spoon, knife, headlamp...) usually add up to 30-40% of my total pack weight so you will have to consider that as well. For sleeping pads, klymit x-lite is 6.5 oz I believe but may not be long enough to be comfortable (it's a torso length one). I got mine used for 45$. If you haven't checked out the GoLite site, it's worth a look. Everything is extremely cheap as well. For more general apparel, SteepandCheap.com is fantastic and at least 50% off usually. Good luck!!
When starting out, biggest mistakes seem to be...
1. 6-7 pound pack for $200 or more, when 1-2 pound pack for $100 is what most people really need.
Other stuff not so serious mistakes...
2. Big tents maybe, but at least you can still use a big tent for car camping, or hiking with kids.
3. Too much clothes, heavy boots too maybe, but at least these extra clothes and boots will eventually be used, perhaps not hiking.
4. Same as #3 with too much food.
5. Bunch of other miscellaneous stuff you don't really need.
shorembo
10-03-2013, 11:12
If you have access to a sewing machine, you can make some really cheap and good equipment.
Questoutfitters has a G4 Pack kit for less than $50. It is 14 oz and 4400 cubic inches.
Thruhiker sells climashield synthetic insulation. It is easy to work with and you can make a quilt for < $40. I have a summer quilt made of 2.5 oz climashield that weighs 13 oz. I just made a cold weather quilt out of 7.5 oz climashield that weighs 29 oz.
I swear I had NO sewing skills when I started but ended up with some nice equipment. And my sewing machine was a 1966 one that all it did was a straight line... no fancy stitching.
It did take some time with trial and error (and a seam ripper). But the last quilt I made took a total of 5 hours from first measurement to finished product.
Over the years I learned the cheapest way to cut weight is to loose the belly fat. I also learned to make sure I do a lot of walking up steps in varying heights to build up my calves big time. You can also cut your hair off and save a few ounces :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IrIiG5wDeY
The least expensive way to reduce weight is to not pack something that you won't need. Examples of this are camp shoes (just loosen the laces of what you hike in), and extra clothes beyond the minimum to hike in and sleep/camp in. The next cheapest is to use a light free or inexpensive item to substitute for a heavier one. The best example of this is to use discarded lightweight plastic bottles instead of nalgenes and similar bottles for carrying water; to use Aqua Mira drops instead of a water filter.
Emily: Clothing is about 14% of my skin out weight. I did not include worn clothing in my base weight, and I'm not carrying much in the way of extras.
shorembo: I'll look into sewing, especially for a summer quilt. I'll have a few months between graduation and hiking, so it might make a fun little project, especially if I can't find more than part time work for that time. Did you use an available pattern for the quilt, or was it easy enough to figure out yourself?
I literally cannot lose weight before I start hiking.
shorembo
10-03-2013, 13:39
Here is a link for a summer quilt.
http://kringlelight.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/sin50/
Couple of things...
1. It doesn't have to be as complex as that is. I ended up basically with a 6ft by 4ft square quilt with loops built into the seams along the bottom and sides of the bottom so I could cinch the bottom around my feet if I wanted to.
2. You can make it warmer, instead of using 2.5 oz climashield, upgrade to 5.0oz.
3. Basically....if you can run the sewing machine in a straight line... you can sew this stuff.
4. If you successfully do a quilt, you can do the backpack. The kits are as low as $35.
If you REALLY want the opinions of the ultralight backpacking crowd, go to backpackinglight.com. There are some serious hardcore (crazy?) ultralightweight backpackers there.
"Examples of this are camp shoes (just loosen the laces of what you hike in)"
That is one of my favourite camping tricks.
I carry a few bread bags (plastic wrappers) with me for that purpose. Once I have had a wash (if I have wet shoes and or is raining) I put clean socks on, cover those with the bread bag and walk around with the shoes undone.
Those plastic bags can also be used to warm your feet in bed and your hands in cold rain.
If you come across snow with uninsulated shoes, they can also keep your feet warm (but wet from perspiration) in that situation.
They will brake but are free.
As for DIY projects, I would look at used gear instead. By the time you cat all the bits and pay for postage and do a prototype or two it may not be as cheap as some make it out to be.
That is of course if it isn't a hobby type activity for you...
BTW, if you have any questions on the Contrail, PM me...
You say you have titanium cookware... How much are we talking? Your not going to be cooking gourmet meals (I don't think), so leave most of it at home. All you need is a 750-1000ml pot and something to eat with (spork).
geomaniac
10-04-2013, 21:39
I agree your pack is probably the easiest place to start trimming weight. Auburn used to have a couple of nice outfitters. Do you know if they are still there? I dont remember the names. Speaking of making a quilt, there is a thread running on hammock forums where they are talking about making quilts from some JC penny down jackets that are on sale for $25.00 each. Some folks have made some pretty nice looking quilts judging from the pictures.
I am working on my base weight too so far down to about 17lbs so still a bit of trimming to do here.
Pad: Look at the Klymit Static V. Full length pad, 19oz, $60.
If you're considering a DIY quilt, I recommend the Ray Way quilt kit. It's $89 and comes with really excellent instructions. That's only $10-15 more than buying all the materials yourself. I think the instructions and saving the hassle of buying everything separately are worth it.
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm
And if you really want to save some cash, you can get a blue foam pad from Walmart for $10 that is similar to a Ridgerest in comfort and warmth. (Very warm, not very comfortable!)
I also agree with whoever said that simply not brining something is the cheapest (and lightest!) option. Why don't you post your gear list in this thread? I think you can certainly go UL/frameless, just roll up your sleeping pad inside the pack as a frame. Once you replace that Gregory you will be very close to a UL base weight anyway.
The six moon designs Swift is $110 and weighs 15 oz! I haven't used this pack but wow you can't beat that price to weight savings ratio! On the AT you don't need to carry much water or food (unless you want to) because the water sources and towns are so close together. Just pointing out you won't ever be weighed down with 6 days of food and 6 liters of water in an UL pack like what can happen on the PCT.
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/packs/Swift.html
how experienced are you? I say go full on UL!!! Why not? I was able to get my base weight way down by just going minimalist in what I needed. Of course it doesn't help when I decide I "need" to bring 2 cans of beer with me!!
:welcome
Turk6177
10-05-2013, 06:15
I would start with clothing. I would use one set of clothes to hike in, and one set to sleep in. There is no need to carry any more. Also, evaluate your gear as systems. What items do you have that you can use in multiple ways? Wool socks can add warmth to thinner gloves for example. Do you carry a trowel? If so, use a stick to dig a hole instead. What is your bear bag line made of? Zpacks.com spectra cord saved me a few ounces over para-cord. I doubt you need more than a keychain sized swiss army knife with a blade and scissors, or a very lightweight multi tool. Platypus bags are much lighter than nalgene bottles. A sawyer squeeze filter or mini filter is lighter than a pump filter. Aqua mirra drops are even lighter than that. I got lighter by doing two things: I read Andrew Skurka's book "THE ULTIMATE HIKER'S GEAR GUIDE," and I went on a couple multi day hikes. The latter really helped me shed some things that I really didn't need. Lastly, check out some of the various youtube videos from past hikers. They often post a gear list of what they started carrying, and what they ended up carrying when they finished. I guarantee you will have your stuff whittled down within a couple hundred miles of hiking. Best of luck and enjoy your experience! Last lastly--if you spend any money, start with your backpack. I love my ULA Catalyst. I went from a 7 pound Jansport Tundra to a couple pound Catalyst and it mad a world of difference on my back.
I have extensive gear lists for U/L-Summer and 3-seaon lightweight with weights and cost. If interested PM with your email address---sorry I missed your body weight.....
A new pack could save you more than 3 pounds. I have an osprey exos 46 and I love it. It weighs just over 2 pounds. Backcountry and rei are both having 20% sales right now.
Also your user name looks like a tiger ID.
It is. Are you a student down here?
I am. Do you have your entire gear list posted somewhere? You can definitely lose weight by upgrading your big items; however, don't forget the small things. They can really add up.
MuddyWaters
10-06-2013, 11:46
Buy a kitchen scale from walmart, and weigh everything.
Or go to the post office and use theirs for FREE.
Guessing doesnt work well.
No one can help you if you only post the weight of 4 items.
But, you have the right idea, the big 4 (pack, tent, bag, pad) are where much weight resides.
After that watch the clothing. High quality light weight clothing, and no redundancy will keep weight low
Forget all the stuffsacks, they add up
Simple light stove and pot
Lightweight raingear
Lightwt water bottles and treatment option
The best 'cost per ounce-saved' ratio is to be had in your big three or four items--pack, shelter, bag and pad. It might seem like you are spending a lot of money but you are probably going to save the most weight for the least amount of money and time by upgrading to lighter gear here. Look at tarp shelters, a short thermarest self inflating or closed cell pad, a smaller capacity lighter pack, and a high quality down bag. Then you can move on to the small stuff. You may find that a you tube searh for post trail gear videos will put you on the right track for gear that works on a through hike.
I appreciate all the suggestions. A few people have suggested posting my gear list, but I want to hold off on that for a little while. I'm want to get in a few nights with what I currently have to get an idea of what I do or do not like, but without the bias of being told I need to get rid of something. There's still a good bit of time before the spring and I'll be looking at specifics quickly enough.
The Pine Mountain Trail makes a nice little overnight trip. It's about a 40 minute drive from campus. I think the entire trail is about 24 miles.
Although I am a Section Hiker...........only difference is miles, am usually out for 10-12 days.
I DEFINITELY carried too much food and too many clothes years ago. Did not allocate for meals in town. Now that I typically hike until dark and don't cook anymore, am in my sleeping bag pretty fast, use to carry camp clothes. Also stopped taking flip flops / crocs, just wear my low tops unlaced.
garlic08
10-07-2013, 07:39
...I DEFINITELY carried too much food and too many clothes years ago. Did not allocate for meals in town. Now that I typically hike until dark and don't cook anymore, am in my sleeping bag pretty fast, use to carry camp clothes. Also stopped taking flip flops / crocs, just wear my low tops unlaced.
Yeah, many here post, "One set of clothes to hike in, one to sleep in." I wonder, why do you carry clothes to sleep in? That just wasted weight the way I travel.
A lot of going lighter comes down to this--are you packing for a camping trip, or for a hiking trip? There's nothing wrong either way, just different.
wyattcothran
10-07-2013, 08:10
If you're gonna be out in rain or snow, that extra set of clothes to sleep in is real nice.
Nutbrown
10-07-2013, 08:59
I keep the extra sleep clothing in a ziplock bag. If my hiking clothes are wet, I'm assured of a dry night sleep. Here's the quilt I made. I sewed the foot box after using velcro for a trip or 2, and sewed the end up. Keeping it open never happened, even in the summer.
http://www.lytw8.com/uploads/LytW8_Summer_Quilt_Instructions.pdf
I also made my own frameless pack, saved 4 lbs. But that's not for everyone...
greentick
10-08-2013, 00:16
It is. Are you a student down here?
I am. Do you have your entire gear list posted somewhere? You can definitely lose weight by upgrading your big items; however, don't forget the small things. They can really add up.
I used to be in the Natl Guard unit over on Shug Jordan. Got some funny looks rucking on campus several years ago. Was nothing UL about that kit. Some time later, my vest alone weighed more that double what I pack now. My knees are so happy.
greentick
10-08-2013, 17:16
Since this was a gear thread...
I lightened up on a long term plan. Being a sectioneer, I could plan future purchases based on budget, sales, etc.
The "if you don't use it in 3 days" rule works well.
ULA Circuit was first buy. Next:
Had bad luck with inflatables and decided the CCF was comfortable enough - use a z-lite now.
The big one was a WM Ultralight bag, was a big chunk of change, but under 2# for a long bag. Love it. Replace an REI bag that was ~3#.
MontBell UL jacket (down) replaced a heavy fleece and is warmer to boot. However, for about $10 and minimal sewing skills you can turn an army field jacket liner into a decent equivalent. See: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=27735&catid=member&imageuser=6848
Ti pot, spoon, alcohol YACC stove. Eventually a caldera cone setup.
Tarptent Contrail.
Been dialed in for the last 4yrs or so.
Since your going to be modifying that field jacket liner, make a quilt for the warmer months OR when you are buying the field jacket liner check out the poncho liner - may suit ya for warmer weather.
oleary92
10-10-2013, 22:10
You've got to be careful with ziplocs they're not durable at all. Mine never last more than a few days, either holes in the bottom or right beneath the zipper. A large trash bag liner or a supermarket plastic bag will do you better luck with keeping cloths dry.
Nutbrown
10-11-2013, 09:37
I use the freezer bags for the clothes storage. Never had a problem. I use em for the FBC too (not the same ones obv.). If one develops a hole, it becomes the trash bag, but in all of my sections I've never had a problem. I also garbage bag line my pack. I like stuff dry :)