REI Gear Return

[frogmonkey]

I'm having a moral dilemma. I love my current backpack (Gregory Deva 60), which I've had for a year and half, but she's way too heavy (5lbs 8oz) to bring on a thru hike. I want to get a lighter backpack, and I was thinking of returning the one I have to REI because I don't need two backpacks of that capacity, and getting the money back from my Gregory to buy a new pack would definitely help my budget. Would it be wrong to return it for these reasons even though I love it?

[daddytwosticks]

How many times have you used the Deva? If it's not worn or abused and in like new condition, I'd think about returning it. :)

[Lone Wolf]

returns are limited to 1 year

[Turkey Sandwich]

Try trading or selling on Craigslist or WB. You could still get a good price for it.

[jburgasser]

Would it be wrong to return it for these reasons even though I love it?
You wouldn't ask the question if you didn't already know the answer. Returns should be because of product or manufacturer defects only.
Ickybod

[Starchild]

You wouldn't ask the question if you didn't already know the answer. Returns should be because of product or manufacturer defects only.
Ickybod

That's not REI's policy. They have a 100% satisfaction policy for 1 year (used to be unlimited). From there site:


If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund.

They have a unlimited return policy separately from that for defects:


If your item has a manufacturing defect in its materials or workmanship, you can return it at any time.

[OCDave]

Return it. It is too heavy, for that reason you are not 100% satisfied. If you purchased before the return policy change they will still honor the old policy.

[Turkey Sandwich]

Also, my PSA: speaking as a former outdoor store employee, you should know that a lot of returned merchandise is simply trashed if it can't be resold. Sure, SOME of it will go to the scratch and dent sale, but a lot of the time perfectly serviceable shoes and packs and other things will be tossed away. And by tossed away, I mean actually shredded up by the loss prevention department so that even a homeless person couldn't use them.

[Hill Ape]

returns are time limited, and even at that, their policy is not as liberal as it used to be. give it a shot, but don't be surprised if they don't go for it. if your local rei has a lot of rental/loaner activity they may be more motivated

[Umlaut Von Fluffbutt]

Since it is a 60L, why not keep it and purchase a smaller/lighter pack?

I currently own an Osprey 70L, which is quite large for my normal 2-3 day hikes; however, the pack was optimal when I spent 9 days in Costa Rica. That pack has replaced my need for any form of luggage while travelling abroad (whether for outdoor activities or just visiting family).

I would buy another and keep your current one as a spare. You can always get a good price for it on craigslist.

[Gambit McCrae]

This is the end all answer to this because I have inquired from REI what is morally correct here.

REI is a nonprofit. Its a COOP. If you have gear that is not in threads or completely destroyed due to misuse, not use *and you are an REI member, you can return it.

Example: I had REI print me a list of all purchased items from 1999 to present, and started collecting. Anything that was not used, I didnt like or needed new of I rounded up and put in a big box. Some of the stuff I had loaned out and had to collect back. I sent it off to Kent Washington. Some of the items were 13 years old! I recieved a gift card to REI for apx $815. This is why REi can get away with this:

When you become a member you pay 20 bucks, alot of people make one large purchase and pay for the membership to get a 10% kickback on a 2000 kayak at the end of the year. But after that purchase they dont really use the membership thus rei wins.

secondly, When REI recieves gear as a return they sort and save then distribute all this gear to the stores around the country and when the store has enough used stuff they price is at a greatly discounted rate and sell it back to customers but here is the kicker:

With distribution and manufacturing retailers like REI have a certain % of what they call "fail in field" with who they buy from. Example REI might have a 3% fail in field with Osprey. Thus, For however much REI buys from OSPREY they will get a 3% kickback for failures in the field. So rei is compensated for what you return to them by the company they bought it from, and THEN rei is going to sell it back to another customer at a greatly discounted rate.

[slbirdnerd]

I have a Deva 60. For the reasons you mention, I would not feel right about returning my pack after having it that long or using it. We knew it was that heavy when we bought them, right? Is what it is. In the meantime, I have tried others but come back to the Deva because it fits right and carries what I want it to. Have you considered making other gear changes to reduce your overall weight? That's what I did and am very happy with my weight right now (26 lbs, summer/fall, long weekend). Plus if you need a good pack for a thru, how much weight are you really going to save getting a lighter pack because you still need something that will hold up? Two pounds? If you like the pack otherwise, find a way to pare down somewhere else. OH, the other thing I did was cut some junk out of the pack--the strap for the fanny pack, the pockets inside the side pockets, the interior divider and its buckles--anything that is in the way and you don't need. That shaves off weight, and keeps all that crap from getting in your way.

[HooKooDooKu]

returns are limited to 1 year
From what I understand, that is only for items that were purchased AFTER the new 1 year policy went into effect. For items purchased before the new policy went into effect, the only policy still rules.

I think the new policy started sometime this year. So if I'm correct, then the OP would still be subject to the old policy.

[HeartFire]

it is morally wrong to return it for the reason you stated - you need money to buy a new/lighter pack,

Either sell it on ebay, here on WB or craigslist.

[frogmonkey]

This is the end all answer to this because I have inquired from REI what is morally correct here.

REI is a nonprofit. Its a COOP. If you have gear that is not in threads or completely destroyed due to misuse, not use *and you are an REI member, you can return it.



That's kind of what I was thinking. For short trips I am 100% satisfied with my backpack, but for long trips I'm not. My back pack is in really good shape. I don't even think it has a scratch on it. There's a little dirt on it which I can easily clean up.

I do like the Craigslist idea though. I have a feeling it would be hard sell considering I live on the beach though...


Since it is a 60L, why not keep it and purchase a smaller/lighter pack?

I currently own an Osprey 70L, which is quite large for my normal 2-3 day hikes; however, the pack was optimal when I spent 9 days in Costa Rica. That pack has replaced my need for any form of luggage while travelling abroad (whether for outdoor activities or just visiting family).

I would buy another and keep your current one as a spare. You can always get a good price for it on craigslist.

I already have a 38L that is great. I figure 55-60L is just about the right size for a thru hike, and having two backpacks that are just about the same size, but one is heavy and one is light is kind of useless.


I have a Deva 60. For the reasons you mention, I would not feel right about returning my pack after having it that long or using it. We knew it was that heavy when we bought them, right? Is what it is. In the meantime, I have tried others but come back to the Deva because it fits right and carries what I want it to. Have you considered making other gear changes to reduce your overall weight? That's what I did and am very happy with my weight right now (26 lbs, summer/fall, long weekend). Plus if you need a good pack for a thru, how much weight are you really going to save getting a lighter pack because you still need something that will hold up? Two pounds? If you like the pack otherwise, find a way to pare down somewhere else. OH, the other thing I did was cut some junk out of the pack--the strap for the fanny pack, the pockets inside the side pockets, the interior divider and its buckles--anything that is in the way and you don't need. That shaves off weight, and keeps all that crap from getting in your way.

When I first bought all my backpacking gear I wasn't thinking all that much about weight, at least not the backpack. I tried to buy my other gear light, but didn't really succeed in that either. I definitely didn't realize that the Deva weight 5.5 lbs, not until I started planning my thru hike for next year.

I really like the idea of cutting off all the extras! How much weight were you able to shave off? See, this is the thing, I've already spent close to $1k reducing the weight of my sleep system. My pack right now without food and water is 22#, and might be a little bit more if I decide to bring some additional winter gear. Looking back it might have been cheaper to just buy a lighter backpack rather than a lighter sleep system. I would easily be able to save 2 lbs if I bought a lighter backpack. Is saving 2 lbs really worth it? I feel like I'm putting way too much thought into this.

[bangorme]

Well, using this logic, I could buy a winter sleeping bag, use it for the winter, return it for a summer sleeping bag, use it for the summer, return it for a winter sleeping bag, .........

It's the same thing with LL Bean gear, which has a much more liberal return policy, I wouldn't feel morally right returning something, unless it was in NEW condition, unless it was defective in some way. I would NEVER return something because my need for gear had changed since I had bought it, unless it was unused (even then not a year down the road). Grownups have to take some responsibility for making an adult decision.

It's the abuse of these liberal return policies that is causing them to be pared back bit by bit. We have people buying LL Beans clothing at yard sales, then returning it to the stores. I don't care whether it's a coop, or not, there will be a certain number of ... people that will ruin it for everyone.

[Starchild]

It does sound to me like your current pack has served it's purpose in your hiking life and you are moving on from it. You have simply 'outgrown' it. Is that a moral reason to return it (since this is a moral question you asked), with a 100% satisfaction policy?

I could say that since you used it for that stage of your hiking life to the point that you are moving forward, it has served it's exact purpose by fact that you are now ready to move on and get something more appropriate to where you are now but that will have to be your call.

On my thru I did return quite a bit of REI stuff, summary:
Jetboil - Flux ring broke - exchanged
Hiking stick broke 3x, exchanged 2x (one was still usable while broken)
Sleeping bag, did not like material feel, found bag at 1/2 the weight - returned
Prolight sleeping mat - not cushy enough, interfered with sleep - returned
MSR Carbon tent, weight heavier then advertized, didn't like setup (hard to do and allowed rain in main area), didn't use on the thru, but found it not good for me right before the thru on training hikes - returned
Steripen - operated erratically (could always get it to purify when needed however - it would turn on on it's own) - exchanged

The only one that comes close to your situation is the sleeping bag, if it was not for finding a bag at half the weight on the thru I would have kept it. It was also ordered over REI.com so I didn't know about the feel till I got it. So really I was not satisfied with it from the beginning, but willing to give it a go, till I saw the alternative.

So morally do you qualify for the satisfaction policy is the question.

[frogmonkey]

Well, using this logic, I could buy a winter sleeping bag, use it for the winter, return it for a summer sleeping bag, use it for the summer, return it for a winter sleeping bag, .........

Thats not even close to the same thing I'm talking about, though I get your point. I'm talking about getting a lighter backpack to use in exchange for my heavier one, period. Not exchanging the lighter one for the heavier one when I get back and then exchanging it for a lighter one if I decide to do a thru hike again.

[lush242000]

Every pound counts. The less the better.


Sent from somewhere.

[Tuckahoe]

I do like the Craigslist idea though. I have a feeling it would be hard sell considering I live on the beach though...


I think you'd be able to sell it just fine locally, after all there are a lot of outdoor types in Tidewater and, we are not served by a decent outfitter.

My only concerns are the freaks that come from Craigslist

[OCDave]

I have been known to get a but OCD with shopping, comparing, rejecting and eventually purchasing my gear. On several occassions, REI staff have suggested simply buying a particular item, Backpacks included, and return it if it doesn't meet my needs. While not my style, it is part of their business model. If you are not 100% satisfied, ( I love 99% but not that last 1%) there is no moral dilemma.

[QHShowoman]

This is the end all answer to this because I have inquired from REI what is morally correct here.

REI is a nonprofit. Its a COOP. If you have gear that is not in threads or completely destroyed due to misuse, not use *and you are an REI member, you can return it.

Example: I had REI print me a list of all purchased items from 1999 to present, and started collecting. Anything that was not used, I didnt like or needed new of I rounded up and put in a big box. Some of the stuff I had loaned out and had to collect back. I sent it off to Kent Washington. Some of the items were 13 years old! I recieved a gift card to REI for apx $815.

Let me start by saying that I have worked with and for non-profits for 15 years AND I also worked in REI customer service for 5 years. There are some points from your post that I'd like to clarify, because I think you were either misinformed or misunderstood:

#1: REI is NOT a nonprofit. They are a consumer co-op, which means, in short, that you can buy a share of the co-op for $20 and you will receive a dividend at the end of the year based on how much you invested or purchased. But, like any other retailer, their #1 goal is to turn a profit.

#2: What you described doing is a complete abuse of REI's policy and is one of the reasons why they've started putting the 1 year limit on their returns. Their returns were so high that it was actually killing their profit margin and they ended up having to lay off more than 2,000 employees nationwide and scale back on higher paying management positions to try and recoup their losses. Technically, if an item is on your purchase history, they can issue you a refund based on the method of payment. They sent you a gift card so that you would reinvest it back into REI.

#3: REI has a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. If you used something enough to wear it out and require a replacement, you were obviously satisfied with it.

#4: Most members recoup the purchase price of their membership within their first year, if not their first purchase, so there's not a profit to be made off of unused memberships. You spend $200, and you get your $20 back. People don't just come in the store and buy a membership and never use it. What the membership does is help to enforce brand loyalty -- you have the membership, you get a dividend, so you continue to patronize REI.

#5: Not everything that is returned gets resold. We have to sort through all the crap customers return and anything that's in crappy condition or things that we can't legally resell (like, used sleeping bags (in some states it's illegal to resell them) or undergarments, bike helmets, climbing harnesses. etc.), gets tossed.

#6: Stuff that is truly defective gets tagged as such, with a description, and gets shipped back to the manufacturer for credit. This happens relatively infrequently.

#7: We never received shipments of used gear from HQ. I am not saying that it doesn't happen at all, but all the gear we sold at our attic sales was stuff that was returned to our store. Given the greater nationwide presence of REI these days, I'd guess that returning gear back to HQ happens with far less frequency nowadays than it did in 1999.

[Old Hiker]

OP,

I fully agree with HeartFire and OHShowoman. It is morally wrong to abuse the return policy after a year and a half (quote) simply because you've decided to cut down on the weight. If there was something wrong or it had some type of defect, it would be different.

Hope you make the right decision.

[Rasty]

Thats not even close to the same thing I'm talking about, though I get your point. I'm talking about getting a lighter backpack to use in exchange for my heavier one, period. Not exchanging the lighter one for the heavier one when I get back and then exchanging it for a lighter one if I decide to do a thru hike again.

Technically there's a difference. Morally there isn't. Integrity is what you do knowing the difference between morally correct and a technicality.

[Namtrag]

If you had to ask, I think you already know the right answer

[Hill Ape]

something my father used to say to me, and now I say the same to my children. "if you know better, do better" you're talking about committing fraud, and you're looking for absolution about it. overall, I don't think its a huge moral dilemma, but I wouldn't do it. I doubt you'll burn in a lake of fire for it though

[PeaPicker]

“Honesty is a question of right and wrong, not a matter of policy (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/honesty_is_a_question_of_right_and_wrong-not_a/196277.html)”

[Feral Bill]

Returning an item that does not suit you is the original intent of the policy in place. It is there to encourage people to buy via mail order and on line, knowing they can make a return. I have only used it for defects, but is entirely reasonable in the OP's case. It's not like he wore it out after years of use an wants a new replacement.

[fredmugs]

I'm not an REI member but it sounds like they had a very liberal return policy and as more and more people took advantage of this liberal policy it was endangering REIs ability to continue forcing them to change their policy.

Hmmm.

[Old Hiker]

Returning an item that does not suit you is the original intent of the policy in place. It is there to encourage people to buy via mail order and on line, knowing they can make a return. I have only used it for defects, but is entirely reasonable in the OP's case. It's not like he wore it out after years of use an wants a new replacement.

Ummm, no, it's not reasonable in my opinion. OP stated she had it for a year and a half and ONLY wants to return it to be able to afford a lighter pack to cut down weight. Nothing was stated that the pack was defective.

I can't buy a car, drive it for 2 years and expect to get all my money back if I decide I don't like the color. Don't tell me it's not the same thing. It's only a matter of degree.

[Mrs Baggins]

I sold my Deva 60 to a friend who was taller and stronger than me. I could not carry that pack. As for other returns, we returned 2 Big Agnes Air Core mats and an REI soft shell jacket in 2013. We bought all of them in 2006. They didn't bat an eyelash at the returns. We told them the truth - the Big Agnes were too heavy and bulky for us and I never used the soft shell jacket. The only other time I returned something to REI was a pair of winter gloves that were advertised as being warm in sub-30 temps but in fact my fingers were in such pain from the cold on a 30 degree day that I couldn't stand it. I have two REI sleeping bags - the subkilo and the subkilo plus - that are leaking feathers like mad but I've used those bags to death so I would not try to return them.

[Starchild]

IMHO you need to make the decision for yourself if it is morally correct. People who state that it is emphatically right or wrong are doing you a disservice they are asking you to submit to their morality, which they have come up with during their life's experiences. My suggestion is live life on your own terms, define what works for you, HYOH. I'm not saying don't ask for help, but use it to help define who you are and to find your own direction, not how others want to mold you to who they say you are.

Peace

[atmilkman]

I don't have the luxury of being able to go in to a store and check out items before I buy, there just aren't any around. What few stores that we do have like Dick's, Sport's Authority, etc. are about 50 - 60 miles away and the folks there don't even know which end of a hiking pole to hold. I've bought and returned many items (and not just REI) that I didn't like or didn't fit, and some after quite some time but they were only tried out at home and never really used "in the field" and were in like new condition. To me, policies like REI's and others are a blessing for someone like me who just doesn't have a store nearby. As far as the OP making a return and wondering if it's wrong, that's her call.

[Old Hiker]

IMHO you need to make the decision for yourself if it is morally correct. People who state that it is emphatically right or wrong are doing you a disservice they are asking you to submit to their morality, which they have come up with during their life's experiences. My suggestion is live life on your own terms, define what works for you, HYOH. I'm not saying don't ask for help, but use it to help define who you are and to find your own direction, not how others want to mold you to who they say you are.

Peace


THREAD DRIFT:

So, StarChild, when I see you walking down the street and my life terms, morality and what works for me tell me that I'm entitled to your money, your body, your life, whatever, it's OK?? Morality IS emphatic. It will change over time, granted, but not always for the better. Opinions are one thing, right and wrong are another.

[Rain Man]

I think the real question is: is it morally right for a corporation to promise one thing to induce money from your pocket to its, then make you think YOU are the one "morally wrong" if you hold it to the original deal. American "gotcha capitalism" is so successful, in part, because it has the critical mass of victims convinced they are the wrong-doers.

Rain Man

.

[sliderule]

I think the real question is: is it morally right for a corporation to promise one thing to induce money from your pocket to its, then make you think YOU are the one "morally wrong" if you hold it to the original deal.


Unless there is evidence that REI engages in such a practice, that is not the real question. It's an irrelevant question.

[Mags]

Guys and Gals, discussing Philosophy 101 is not the point of this thread. :) Keep it to the REI return policy and not "What is moral and good?" type discussions.

Danke!

[Old Hiker]

Mags, bitte !!

However, respectfully, the question OP posted WAS about "what is moral and good", not what the return policy was.

I do apologize for anything that seemed like an attack - it was not meant to be that.

[Starchild]

http://cdn.scratch.mit.edu/static/site/projects/thumbnails/29/5045.png

[sliderule]

Guys and Gals, discussing Philosophy 101 is not the point of this thread. :) Keep it to the REI return policy and not "What is moral and good?" type discussions.

Danke!

Refer to post #1. Clearly, you missed it.

[sliderule]

http://cdn.scratch.mit.edu/static/site/projects/thumbnails/29/5045.png

[RCBear]

Keep the Deva. Its a good pack and you will find use for it again even if as a loner to a friend that might want to do a hike with you. Or sell it online if that doesnt work for you. But don't return it.

Spend the 150-200 on a pack that suits your upcoming needs. You have obviously considered that returning it may be questionable so just buy a new pack and sleep better.

[HooKooDooKu]

I'm going to be the odd man out and make a suggestion no one seems ready to make:

I've heard it argued that hiking the AT is just a series of multi-day hikes. Since you love this 5.5lb pack for your current hikes, why not just skip the moral dilemma and plan on using this pack you so "love"? Go a head and start loading up on the other gear you're going to need. You can always come back and change your mind about the pack at a later date. After all:
1. You're not talking about changing the size of your pack.
2. If you are indeed still under the old return policy, then you can return it a year from now just as well as you can tomorrow.
(And if you're not under the old return policy, then too much time has already passed for you to return it anyway).

[Feral Bill]

[/SIZE]Ummm, no, it's not reasonable in my opinion. OP stated she had it for a year and a half and ONLY wants to return it to be able to afford a lighter pack to cut down weight. Nothing was stated that the pack was defective.

I can't buy a car, drive it for 2 years and expect to get all my money back if I decide I don't like the color. Don't tell me it's not the same thing. It's only a matter of degree.
It's not a guarrantee to be free of defects, it's a satisfaction guarantee. After a reasonable amount of use he was no longer satisfied. That's the policy (recently time limited for good reason), which amounts to a contract.

[alexandra]

I'm thru-hiking this year too. I have the same pack and have seriously been considering returning it as well... I love the pack and the suspension, so I've been trying to get my weight down in other places first. I was looking at other packs such as Osprey but just can't compare it to the Gregory so the weight difference is just not worth it. If I were you I would go find the pack you want, and if you really do love it more, then don't feel guilty for returning the Deva. When I was trying my pack at REI the sales associate pretty much told me straight up that it was OK to return the pack after a few trips if I wasn't happy.

[R1ma]

I went through something like this a few years ago, before the policy change.

In 06, I bought a pair of Vasque Breezes. Great boots. Then, 2-3 years later, my feet grew 2 sizes. Obviously, can't wear the boots anymore. They were scuffed, but in decent shape. I thought it was a stretch to return them, even with the policy in place. I obviously used them, and was satisfied for a while. I sold them on ebay for about 75% what I paid for them.

[Mags]

Refer to post #1. Clearly, you missed it.

Somehow I don't think the OP meant for a discussion about capitalism and moral relativism to come out of this discussion. You all sounds like Freshmen who took their first philosophy course. "This is way deep man!"


From the op:

Would it be wrong to return it for these reasons even though I love it?

She is discussing if it is wrong to return a freakin' pack to REI in light of the return policy. Not how capitalism is destroying us or if "Morality IS emphatic."

Cripe.

Keep it on track.

:)

[Dogwood]

Forgive me if this has been covered. REI has recently changed their return policies. It is not as liberal as it once was which was one of the reasons why I always gave REI high marks for customer service in this regard. I recently had two high end apparel torso pieces w/the REI tags still attached in unused condition. They were both too small. The gifter bought these pieces with cash and not under a REI Members account. REI would not even allow me to exchange these pieces for a larger size or offer me a Merchandise Credit because I had no receipt. I understand businesses need to protect themselves from unreasonable or fraudulent returns however I thought my recent REI return experiences have led me to shop elsewhere more often!

REI buyer beware!

[max patch]

No receipt? That's standard practice. Those items could have stolen for all REI knows.

[Starchild]

I've never ever been banana'ed before, It sort of felt good in a weird way :confused: ;)

[QHShowoman]

Forgive me if this has been covered. REI has recently changed their return policies. It is not as liberal as it once was which was one of the reasons why I always gave REI high marks for customer service in this regard. I recently had two high end apparel torso pieces w/the REI tags still attached in unused condition. They were both too small. The gifter bought these pieces with cash and not under a REI Members account. REI would not even allow me to exchange these pieces for a larger size or offer me a Merchandise Credit because I had no receipt. I understand businesses need to protect themselves from unreasonable or fraudulent returns however I thought my recent REI return experiences have led me to shop elsewhere more often!

REI buyer beware!

Your experience would likely have been the same even before REI changed their policy. If you have no proof of purchase, REI is not obligated to honor an exchange or a refund. Otherwise, it would be far too easy for someone to lift something off the shelves, march back to the customer service desk, and return the stolen item for cash/credit. I've actually caught people doing this. More than once.

People also buy stuff at attic sales and try to return the items for full price. Most stores will mark attic sale items in some way to deter this from happening.

It's people like these that you can thank for the change in REI's return policy...
The guy that wanted to return a bike that he'd owned and ridden for years because he moved and no longer had space to store it in his new place.
A woman who tried to return several pairs of padded bike shorts that she'd obviously used. Without underwear. And didn't bother to wash them before trying to return them.
Another woman who bought 3 $350 tents because the school she worked at needed them for a single overnight. She tried to claim they were unused, but when I pulled them out of the bag, they were covered with leaves and dirt. (Our store rented comparable tents to the public.)
Another couple -- with $10,000+ in purchases on their account -- who came in on a Saturday morning with no less than 6 shopping bags full of clothes that were so old and worn that you couldn't even read the labels. They were cleaning out their closet and no longer had use for the clothes and expected a refund.
Or the guy that bought a Thule car top bike rack set up and had it installed by us on a Friday only to return it the following Monday when his weekend bike trip was done.

[atmilkman]

Your experience would likely have been the same even before REI changed their policy. If you have no proof of purchase, REI is not obligated to honor an exchange or a refund. Otherwise, it would be far too easy for someone to lift something off the shelves, march back to the customer service desk, and return the stolen item for cash/credit. I've actually caught people doing this. More than once.

People also buy stuff at attic sales and try to return the items for full price. Most stores will mark attic sale items in some way to deter this from happening.

It's people like these that you can thank for the change in REI's return policy...
The guy that wanted to return a bike that he'd owned and ridden for years because he moved and no longer had space to store it in his new place.
A woman who tried to return several pairs of padded bike shorts that she'd obviously used. Without underwear. And didn't bother to wash them before trying to return them.
Another woman who bought 3 $350 tents because the school she worked at needed them for a single overnight. She tried to claim they were unused, but when I pulled them out of the bag, they were covered with leaves and dirt. (Our store rented comparable tents to the public.)
Another couple -- with $10,000+ in purchases on their account -- who came in on a Saturday morning with no less than 6 shopping bags full of clothes that were so old and worn that you couldn't even read the labels. They were cleaning out their closet and no longer had use for the clothes and expected a refund.
Or the guy that bought a Thule car top bike rack set up and had it installed by us on a Friday only to return it the following Monday when his weekend bike trip was done.

Ah yes, the old Friday night cocktail party dress return on Saturday scheme. Complete with tags of course. (that's not a wine stain)

[Rasty]

Ah yes, the old Friday night cocktail party dress return on Saturday scheme. Complete with tags of course. (that's not a wine stain)

....................

[Dogwood]

Your experience would likely have been the same even before REI changed their policy. If you have no proof of purchase, REI is not obligated to honor an exchange or a refund. Otherwise, it would be far too easy for someone to lift something off the shelves, march back to the customer service desk, and return the stolen item for cash/credit. I've actually caught people doing this. More than once.

People also buy stuff at attic sales and try to return the items for full price. Most stores will mark attic sale items in some way to deter this from happening.

It's people like these that you can thank for the change in REI's return policy...
The guy that wanted to return a bike that he'd owned and ridden for years because he moved and no longer had space to store it in his new place.
A woman who tried to return several pairs of padded bike shorts that she'd obviously used. Without underwear. And didn't bother to wash them before trying to return them.
Another woman who bought 3 $350 tents because the school she worked at needed them for a single overnight. She tried to claim they were unused, but when I pulled them out of the bag, they were covered with leaves and dirt. (Our store rented comparable tents to the public.)
Another couple -- with $10,000+ in purchases on their account -- who came in on a Saturday morning with no less than 6 shopping bags full of clothes that were so old and worn that you couldn't even read the labels. They were cleaning out their closet and no longer had use for the clothes and expected a refund.
Or the guy that bought a Thule car top bike rack set up and had it installed by us on a Friday only to return it the following Monday when his weekend bike trip was done.

This obviously was NOT the situation and I have returned things in the past without a receipt or proof of purchase for a Gift Card or even exchange. NO, this is a change in return policy by REI! I was informed of such by the Customer Service Mngr. Again, what I was asking was simply an even exchange to a larger size. The apparel was brand new this fall's version unworn with the REI tags still attached and the items would in all most likelihood have had electronic security devices attached to avoid unscrupulous returns. I will strongly consider going elsewhere with my gear purchases considering REI's new return policy.

[bangorme]

This obviously was NOT the situation and I have returned things in the past without a receipt or proof of purchase for a Gift Card or even exchange. NO, this is a change in return policy by REI! I was informed of such by the Customer Service Mngr. Again, what I was asking was simply an even exchange to a larger size. The apparel was brand new this fall's version unworn with the REI tags still attached and the items would in all most likelihood have had electronic security devices attached to avoid unscrupulous returns. I will strongly consider going elsewhere with my gear purchases considering REI's new return policy.

Someone has already explained why REI changed its return policy. It's because too many people abused it. Even LL Beans is asking now for receipts when you want to return something. It's unfortunate that LL Beans existed with this policy for decades, then within the last five years has had to change it, REI too. It's because many people feel that morality is whatever benefits them at the moment. That absolves them from having to do the right thing.

When you hear that little voice in your head telling you not to do something, that's your conscience. Listen to it. It's what distinguish you from everything else on earth.

[QHShowoman]

This obviously was NOT the situation and I have returned things in the past without a receipt or proof of purchase for a Gift Card or even exchange. NO, this is a change in return policy by REI! I was informed of such by the Customer Service Mngr. Again, what I was asking was simply an even exchange to a larger size. The apparel was brand new this fall's version unworn with the REI tags still attached and the items would in all most likelihood have had electronic security devices attached to avoid unscrupulous returns. I will strongly consider going elsewhere with my gear purchases considering REI's new return policy.

I worked at REI in customer service. This was our policy back in 2005, when I started working there, and it still stands today. The customer service specialist can -- at her/his discretion -- honor an even exchange, but REI is not obligated to unless the customer has proof of purchase, either in the form of a receipt or on their member purchase history. I am pretty sure that the customer service manager was just using the "new policy" to enforce their position. It's easier to blame it on the "new policy" than to explain that it's been their policy all along and no one's really enforced it with you until now.

The only items REI routinely puts electronic security devices on are things like electronics and Arcteryx and North Face jackets.

[slbirdnerd]

I really like the idea of cutting off all the extras! How much weight were you able to shave off? See, this is the thing, I've already spent close to $1k reducing the weight of my sleep system. My pack right now without food and water is 22#, and might be a little bit more if I decide to bring some additional winter gear. Looking back it might have been cheaper to just buy a lighter backpack rather than a lighter sleep system. I would easily be able to save 2 lbs if I bought a lighter backpack. Is saving 2 lbs really worth it? I feel like I'm putting way too much thought into this. Cutting stuff out would vary depending on what you take out, and it's ounces, not pounds. For me it was more about getting all the kinda useless stuff out of the way. So many extra straps and buckles and things. I did take out the mesh pocket dividers in the side pockets. Getting along just fine without it all. :) After trying a couple Osprey and a ULA Catalyst, I went back to the Deva and switched out my synthetic bag for down and just made some realistic choices about my clothes and some other things. Even at 26 pounds, which included food and some water, on my last long weekend, there were things I didn't use. Since I've done so much work on my gear and am willing to forget anything I'm not using, I'm comfortable with where I am. If you go lighter on the pack, you very well may end up with a space issue, or a comfort issue, or both. The Catalyst I tried was SO LIGHT, I wanted to love it, but my stuff just didn't configure right in it and it wasn't comfortable. In the end, though, you have to be physically comfortable with your pack and mentally comfortable with what you've got in it.

[Theosus]

Ah yes, the old Friday night cocktail party dress return on Saturday scheme. Complete with tags of course. (that's not a wine stain)

Same thing happens with prom dresses, from what I understand. So much so that some stores don't do returns on prom dresses.

[frogmonkey]

If you go lighter on the pack, you very well may end up with a space issue, or a comfort issue, or both. The Catalyst I tried was SO LIGHT, I wanted to love it, but my stuff just didn't configure right in it and it wasn't comfortable. In the end, though, you have to be physically comfortable with your pack and mentally comfortable with what you've got in it.

This is precisely what I have been thinking about all day today! As I look at other packs I wonder if their lighter weight will make up for how amazing the Deva is. I love that I can access the main compartment three different ways and I like that the side pockets are zippered. The kangaroo pockets are way too small, but that's neither here nor there.

Ultimately I have decided to bring my backpack and all of my backpacking gear to REI this weekend. I'm going to see if they'll let me shove my stuff into different backpacks. I want to see how accessible the other packs are and how easy it is to get to my gear. If any of them can make it past that stage then I'll cruise around the store for an hour with the weighted pack and see how it feels. If I like the pack, then I will explain my situation to the salesperson and see what they say. If they tell me, "Nah, you really shouldn't return it," then I won't. If they say, "Heck yeah! No problem!" then I will return it. It's their policy and their profits so I'll leave it up to them.

[QHShowoman]

They will probably let you return it. But you should emphasize that the pack is really too heavy for your needs and not that you want to 'trade up.'

[goody5534]

returns are limited to 1 year
LW, the new REI policy is for all purchases after 6/1/2013. Any purchases before 6/1/2013 made by co-op members are life-time, but with that said the OP's desire to buy a new pack is not a reason to return a product that doesn't have any performance or fit issues. Sell the Deva on the used forum or and use the windfall to help purchase your new pack.,

[atmilkman]

....................

It wasn't Scuppernong either Rasty.