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Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-13-2005, 19:10
This ( and the posts found when searching for "Wingfoot") was enlightening. I bought his 2003 book in preparation for the section hiking. I was thinking of getting the 2006 version, but have changed my mind. Could anyone recommend an alternative? I know there is one on the Net, but I'd like to have a tote-able printed version.

Lone Wolf
08-13-2005, 19:36
The Thru-Hikers Companion www.aldha.org

SGT Rock
08-13-2005, 22:03
Just to add to that, although I am an ALDHA member and a supporter of them, I personally feel that the Thru-Hiker handbook's lay out it better than the Companion lay out. You can make the decision not to buy WFs book because you don't like him, that is always anyones business. I've also chatted with WF and I like him for the most part, I just think he needs another partner admin like I do to keep me in check :D

Hopefully someday ALDHA makes either another book, or changes the lay out of the Companion.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-13-2005, 22:16
Guys, it was the stuff on his site that lead to my decision. This site just pointed me to his site.

Sly
08-13-2005, 22:51
Hopefully someday ALDHA makes either another book, or changes the lay out of the Companion.

For the most part, the data in either book is public domain and to my knowledge isn't copyrightable. I suggest the ALDHA Companion use the same format, with mileage details upfront and town/resupply and flora and fauna info in the back.

Sure it will be a rip-off, but no more so then WF did when he used databook to change his format.

I'd also get rid of the spriral binding and make the mileage info and each town section seperately bound and easily pulled from the main binding.

SGT Rock
08-13-2005, 23:02
For the most part, the data in either book is public domain and to my knowledge isn't copyrightable. I suggest the ALDHA Companion use the same format, with mileage details upfront and town/resupply and flora and fauna info in the back.

Sure it will be a rip-off, but no more so then WF did when he used databook to change his format.

I'd also get rid of the spriral binding and make the mileage info and each town section seperately bound and easily pulled from the main binding.
I tend to agree with your assessment Sly. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out how the Companion even worked the first time I picked it up. I would like to see a lay out that had the data for the stuff exactly how you see it with the miles as you go along, sort of how WF did the 2002 guide. I also think that the ATC would be happy to support ALDHA since they give money from their sales of the Companion back to the ATC.

Mostly what I would like to see is a database where people can select the level of detail and lay out they prefer and then print off their own book for their hiking style, but that is another subject.

digger51
08-13-2005, 23:08
While I dont agree with WFs political and social views. he does put together a good trail guide. I have bought his book every year Ive hiked since 1999, and will continue to buy it until someone else can put one together that gives all the info in a readable format like his.

Sly
08-13-2005, 23:19
I also think that the ATC would be happy to support ALDHA since they give money from their sales of the Companion back to the ATC.


Even though I've been a member for almost 10 years, I'm not exactly sure of the relationship and how the money works but the ATC publishes the Companion, so there's definitely a common interest.

I don't believe they'd be a problem if the Companion incorporated the Databook and each could be sold seperately as they do now.

I'm most likely going to miss this years Gathering, but perhaps I can have someone make the suggestions at the general meeting.

fiddlehead
08-15-2005, 00:38
I'm most likely going to miss this years Gathering, but perhaps I can have someone make the suggestions at the general meeting.
Slyman how could you??? I don't remember going to a gathering without seeing you since about '94. It definitely won't feel the same. I thought hard about not going because they tried to outlaw beer last year but i think they won't try that at Dartmouth. If they do, it'll be my last one too.
Or maybe it's the gas prices. I have to go to (work) a festival in southern NH and hope to have Rainman pick me up so i won't be using too much fuel. If you could get up to PA you could come along if you like. If not, we'll sure miss you.

Sly
08-15-2005, 01:22
Slyman how could you??? I don't remember going to a gathering without seeing you since about '94.

Would like to go and almost made arrangements, but I'll just be getting back from the JMT and ALDHA West Gathering.

We'll see, I may be able to pull it off yet! ;)

MedicineMan
08-15-2005, 03:28
if not for him then WB wouldnt thrive a it does.
also think of what WF could have done...kinda like the Jews versus the Arabs, the Arabs have recieved billions and billions of dollars and what have they done with it besides killing and teaching to kill....versus the jews who have taken a worthless piece of land and turned it into an oasis. WF could have done so much for the AT (OK maybe he did do something) but failed because of an attitude to realize what he could have done.
And back to Sgt Rocks comment on a customizable downloadable printable Trail Guide---isnt that a mission of the Articles Section here at WB???

Sly
08-15-2005, 08:03
if not for him then WB wouldnt thrive a it does.
also think of what WF could have done...kinda like the Jews versus the Arabs, .....

Did you think of this all by yourself or have the help of mind altering drugs?

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 08:45
And back to Sgt Rocks comment on a customizable downloadable printable Trail Guide---isnt that a mission of the Articles Section here at WB???
Not really. The articles could serve as some of the filler info that goes in the front of most guides and could also make some good "spot" info in places. With the idea I have, a user of whiteblaze could download the article and print it out to add to their database.

What I am talking about is a database that has it's own program for viewing, or could be imported into another program like Access or Access viewer, or some other program. for the database part it would only need be a CSV file or something similar. I've set up some fairly large databases in the past and think this is an easy to set up thing. The hard part would be entering in all the data intially, then enforcing a system within the ATC to keep it up to date. Maybe with the tech-savy new guys that just got on-board it could be done.

What I would like to see is the ATC take all that data they have about the trail and things along it that is listed in the section guides they put out, and arrange it all in one database with a key record that is "Miles_from_Springer" or "Miles_from_Katahdin" so that it all can be sorted out correctly. Then every entry would have attributes in other record fields such as water, campsite, road crossing, etc. Then take the data that is in the Companion that gives more detail about towns and shelter and make those special details fields for the items in the database. So now you have built a big honking database about the trail from end to end. The system benefits the ATC because now when they go to update trail guides and books, the local chapter can simply send them the new database entries to go into the trail database. Revisions of the new books can come directly from the database.

The database could be sold with certain rights - like the right to print and use the data for your own purposes only, no commercial use. And there could also be a commercial use version which would simply be a more expensive package that includes what usage the ATC allows you to do commercially with the info - so say if Baltimore Jack was planning to write his own preparation guide but not a full up guide and include data from the database, his cost would be lower then say a user like WF who wants to basically take the database and re-print it with his own data added.

The database should include a few different pre-set print formats for size and lay out so the user can choose how big and in what format they want their guide.

So now you have a database and certain rights to use it and you can select how you want it put together. So what do you do with it? Well some people want only a companion style book with maybe road crossings added, and they only plan to hike from Davenport Gap to Erwin. So they can select the level of detail they want for a trail guide, tell it what section to print out, and print it in whatever lay out they want - say alternating data and blank pages so they can make journal notes about sections as they travel - and have it in a top bound 4.25"x5.5" flip book style.

Another hiker may want water, town, and roads but not want shelters. That hiker may be doing a thru hike and can print out his guide in sections to meet his mail drop schedule and map sections and do so in a small 3"x5" notecard style front to back.

Another user may be a section hiker only worried about water and special points like blue-blaze trails and cool spots like Charlie's Bunion. That user may also be site impaired and want a big print version 8.5" x 11".

And the price - about $5. The same price they charge for the databook for just one user. This allows them to make the same money per sale without the printing costs. They could still offer the guidebooks for the section hikers to just buy, and the Databook as well. And if you make it available for on-line download after paying - you save shipping costs too. Make the limited commercial use version something like $100 and the commercial use be about $500 with a sales based add on (that may be a little harder to enforce).

Footslogger
08-15-2005, 10:22
I believe that dog will hunt Rock. Especially helpful is the fact that the user can print out all or some of the data and in any order they desire. Truth is ...you wouldn't have to make the entire database available to every hiker though. You could offer it as feature of membership in ALDHA or ATC. Bump the annual dues enough to cover the cost and let each member download/printout the section(s) they need or want ...some or all.

This reminds me a bit of the trend in documentation from electronics manufactuers these days. You logon to their website, enter your validation code and pull the ops manual down to your computer. Then you're free to review it on-line or print out some/all of the pages.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 10:50
I believe that dog will hunt Rock. Especially helpful is the fact that the user can print out all or some of the data and in any order they desire. Truth is ...you wouldn't have to make the entire database available to every hiker though. You could offer it as feature of membership in ALDHA or ATC. Bump the annual dues enough to cover the cost and let each member download/printout the section(s) they need or want ...some or all.

This reminds me a bit of the trend in documentation from electronics manufactuers these days. You logon to their website, enter your validation code and pull the ops manual down to your computer. Then you're free to review it on-line or print out some/all of the pages.

'Slogger
Oh I know it will 'Slogger. I came up with the thought a while back when working with a database I created for my troop using Microsloth Access. When the Army issued me a PDA and I was looking to use it as a hiking tool, I created a Access database for a section of the AT and made it exportable to my PDA and it actually did exactly what I am talking about. So you could stuff like select only shelters, and it could display just the shelter data. You could select laundry facilities and it would show only the laundry facilities for the section of trail you desired. Made planning a breeze. That is when I came up with the printing options idea - because not everyone wants to see it on the same display.

It would be VERY easy to set up the database to work in Access and include pre-made reports and queries to allow the user to select what they want. The harder part (at least for me) is setting up the different pre-set print options and programing a macro for a control panel to make interface easier. There are some bubbas out there that have more kung-fu when it comes to this though.

The absolute hardest part for any one individual would be getting the data together and proof reading it. If I were king for a day at the ATC I would get about 14 volunteers to start doing the data entry after the tables and fields were created. Each one would start with a state, and when the ones with smaller states finished, they could start helping people with the bigger states like VA. This project could be done in a year with the right help.

And think of this: since some programs, like Access, allow you to import tables, making a WhiteBlaze add on table would be easy. You could take Jack's re-supply article and add a new set of custom queries and reports that could be attached to the original ATC database. The key field would simply have to match. This way someone could add Jack's resupply article to their database and have it included at the correct spots in the lay out of their custom guide instead of having it all in one place in the back of the book (unless that is what they want). You could also have a couple of blocks for user input data so someone could customize a guide by adding info like "Camp here day 1" or type in some info that they learned here on Whiteblaze that is specific to that guide entry. Plus the Boy scouts could have an add on database for their stuff. WF could sell a database add in for TP followers. GPS nuts could create an add in for grid coordinates info to everything on the trail. It would be pandelirium! :eek:

And your idea about having it available for members. Wow, I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. BUT, if I were to do it that way, I might not have the price so high. Since a lot of members never use the Databook, maybe only raise fees by $1, or have a special membership level called "Tech Savvy" that gives the member access to the database. Heck, I would let ATC figure the best way to get that egg out of the shell based on their needs. And since you mentioned it, Maybe ALDHA would be a better organization to do this and offer it. They already have the experience with the Companion

Footslogger
08-15-2005, 11:04
[QUOTE=SGT Rock]And your idea about having it available for members. Wow, I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense.
========================================
One of the main reasons for doing it that way would be updating. The database stored at ALDHA, ATC or wherever could be updated whenever new information is received from hikers and validated. Each section would have a "last updated on" date so that a hiker would always know if they had the latest version.

It's water over the dam now so I'll share with you that a couple years before my thru I had an idea along these lines. It was inspired by the AAA Trip Ticks I used to get for car trips across the USA. I met with the muckety-mucks at AAA and shared my idea. They shyed away from it because it didn't fall in line with their charter. But I still think that sort of idea would fly. With a system like that, each hiker could assemble their own handbook for a hike, be it a section or the entire AT. Each page would be a map section with a fold out that contained info on water sources, shelters, town data and etc.

Personally, I have about 7 or 8 years of AT Handbooks on my shelf right now. Something like this would replace the whole "buy a new one each year" process and allow you to keep a manual in loose leaf format, replacing sections as they are updated in the database.

As with anything though ...getting the original database assembled will be the challenge. The more people involved the longer it will take.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 11:14
Well I tell you what I would be willing to do. I would be willing to set up a concept database (when I could get some free time) using my 2005 data book and a GA Trail guide, the ATC companion section, and Microsoft Access as the program. Once the initial concept is finished and a few users manhandle it to find some errors, we could make a WhiteBlaze on-line collaboration where folks that would be interested could do a section. It might take a while and quite a few users, but I think it could get done. And as an ALDHA and ATC member, I would gladly contribute the effort to either or both of those fine organizations to take it over as a project for continuity. A field editor could simply send in the new data, as I am sure they already do, and the data could be pasted over the older data in the databook.

As I sit here thinking about it. The level of town data could also be changed based on user needs. Imagine someone like Flash Hand or Deafsmart going into a town and having the ability to have good info for Deaf hikers in their version. And the opposite could be said for hikers that don't care about certain town things, they could choose to omit hostel data if they so choose in order make their version smaller or whatever.

sherrill
08-15-2005, 11:20
Yeah Rock, it would have to be able for a user to customize it. Imagine Lone Wolf having to download shelter data.... :D

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 11:24
I just created this thread from another one that had a completely different topic. I figured the ideas here deserved their own discussion.

Footslogger
08-15-2005, 11:27
As I sit here thinking about it. The level of town data could also be changed based on user needs. Imagine someone like Flash Hand or Deafsmart going into a town and having the ability to have good info for Deaf hikers in their version. And the opposite could be said for hikers that don't care about certain town things, they could choose to omit hostel data if they so choose in order make their version smaller or whatever.=======================================
The whole concept is solid and it gets around the various complaints that one handbook or another doesn't format things the way an individual hiker likes to see them. You could set it up front to back for a NOBO or SOBO hike and include only that information which you feel would be helpful. One example is Post Office telephone numbers. In 2003 I carried the Handbook pages, broken down into sections that I had mailed to me along the way. But ...one of the things that I kept with me the entire way was the page with Post Office Telephone Numbers. That information could be loaded into the database along with the town info and a separate page would be unecesary.

One question to consider though would be ...the impact on the current AT Hanbooks and the reaction of their publishers.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 11:36
One question to consider though would be ...the impact on the current AT Hanbooks and the reaction of their publishers.

'Slogger
That is a good question. My thought is that the database would never completely replace the printed book. For so many people it is easy to just get a book or two and do the job without much thought to it. I think eventually it would catch on more and more, but never replace the books. The fact is it would still make the organizations money, and I also think it would make their updates and lay outs easier over time. So there would be a few back-scene benefits for them. Imagine right now you have to update the data book and you basically have to re design the lay-out and make sure the pages match up every year you do it. With a database and query system with printed reports, they could simply update a few entries in the tables, maybe with the benefit of an easy to use form, and then open the report that is generated by the database and send that to the print shop. Same could be said for the Companion or the Thru-Hiker's Handbook.

MOWGLI
08-15-2005, 11:41
Here's my .02 for what it's worth. I think this site is functioning just fine as is. In fact, the best part of WB is the community that has formed here - and the way that folks can connect and make new friends. It's not the data!

The AT is the most publicized and written about trail in the world. There is an absolute avalanche of information about the trail. Personally, I see no need to reinvent the wheel. Between the ALDHA Companion and WF's book, a hiker has virtually all of the info they need to hike the trail - sans shuttle info. IMO, it's getting to the point where a planning freak can have every shred of info they need in order to do a hike - and then some. To me, that takes some of the magic out of the experience. What ever happened to not knowing what was around the next bend in the trail?

And 'Slogger makes a good point. Why spin your wheels to compete with two quality products that are already on the market?

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 11:46
Here's my .02 for what it's worth. I think this site is functioning just fine as is. In fact, the best part of WB is the community that has formed here - and the way that folks can connect and make new friends. It's not the data!

The AT is the most publicized and written about trail in the world. There is an absolute avalanche of information about the trail. Personally, I see no need to reinvent the wheel. Between the ALDHA Companion and WF's book, a hiker has virtually all of the info they need to hike the trail - sans shuttle info. IMO, it's getting to the point where a planning freak can have every shred of info they need in order to do a hike - and then some. To me, that takes some of the magic out of the experience. What ever happened to not knowing what was around the next bend in the trail?

And 'Slogger makes a good point. Why spin your wheels to compete with two quality products that are already on the market?Well I tend to agree. And to be honest I don't want to carry two books about the trail on the trail, and I also don't want the avalanche of data, but there is some info from both books (or actually a few books) I would like to carry without having to carry both books. I think having a database where you could select the level and type of info you want and make the book as superficial or as in-depth as you want it while making the format the way you want to read it is a useful idea. We aren't talking about making a new pan-dimensional guidebook, we are talking about making a customizable guidebook based on the users desire (or lack of) to carry information. And I don't really think it is re-inventing the wheel, more of a repackaging of the wheel.

And, let me make this clear from my standpoint, I don't think this should end up as a WhiteBlaze resource. I think this is a resource that I or we, or some of we could volunteer to build for one of the exsisting organizations and then give it over to them. I have no desire to sit around and edit the update every year like WF, but the ATC and ALDHA already do it, and I think the system could make that task easier.

Footslogger
08-15-2005, 11:47
[QUOTE=SGT Rock]That is a good question. My thought is that the database would never completely replace the printed book.
=====================================
Well ...I can tell you that out here in the West there are many established/printed handbooks for trails but there are also map sets and support resources made available by individual hikers. The real problem is keeping them all current. For hikers who are not interested in sifting through a database and compiling their own personal handbook there could always be the "Handbook" and the "Companion" which is specific to their hiking year.

You're correct. In the current printed AT handbooks the entire book needs to be reprinted each year due to the amount of text and flow that changes as a result of updates. In a database there are NO pre-numbered pages. Each database element has it's own identity which can be readily changed/updated. The act of printing out the desired resources is what triggers the page numbering (which itself could be an option YES/NO).

'Slogger

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 12:05
Well ...I can tell you that out here in the West there are many established/printed handbooks for trails but there are also map sets and support resources made available by individual hikers. The real problem is keeping them all current. For hikers who are not interested in sifting through a database and compiling their own personal handbook there could always be the "Handbook" and the "Companion" which is specific to their hiking year.
And your point about users sending in update reports is a good idea. If the ATC or ALDHA had a link at the download site that took the user to a form for updating trail info, the fields could replicate some of the fields needed to update the database. Then the form could result in a generated e-mail to an editor that may call and confirm the information sent. Once confirmed, the database could be updated as required, and the database page could list the last updated date of the database.



You're correct. In the current printed AT handbooks the entire book needs to be reprinted each year due to the amount of text and flow that changes as a result of updates. In a database there are NO pre-numbered pages. Each database element has it's own identity which can be readily changed/updated. The act of printing out the desired resources is what triggers the page numbering (which itself could be an option YES/NO).

'Slogger
So if I were about to go to Maine and hike, I could see that there is a new update to the database since I last downloaded it. Then select the info I want for the section I am about to hike, then print off the latest info for that section into my own user format. Since I am selecting the range to be printed, the pages would be numbered for just my printing. I wouldn't ask for pages 10-14, I would ask for trail data from say NOC to Springer heading south, and the pages would be numbered for me in the direction of travel, and for mileage I could have either miles from a fixed point like Springer or Katahdin as my milage shown, or mileage from start to end point in the direction of travel.

Since the page numbers are set when the report is generated, the same thing would happen for the ATC or ALDHA when they go anually to update their guides. I think there might also need to be a "Page Offset" settings in case they want to have a section in the front done as a Word Document and the gude sections start page numbering on page 5.

Whistler
08-15-2005, 12:08
Glad to know I'm not the only person whose thought about this. It's a brilliant idea, and I would be glad to contribute as some sort of field editor or idea man or general 3rd party armchair publisher/ critique-er :]

Building the database itself shouldn't be too hard, but a tough part will be deciding what information would be included, how many different things are we going to keep track of? Cumulative mileage Springer-Katahdin, mileage from shelter to shelter, shelters themselves, water sources, placenames and landmarks, road crossings, side trails, assorted town info [resupply, meals, lodging, PO], town maps [?], trivia, what else would be in there?

Gathering the data shouldn't be too hard, just time-consuming legwork.

I think the other tough part would be making some kind of interface. Some people, like me, get some sort of sick pleasure by playing with databases and toggling and clicking and mining information. There needs to be some sort of basic idiot-resistant menu system for the casual user to just click and print. Probably some built in templates or 'most requested' layout and print options. Of course, you'd still want to keep backdoor access for the hiker-geeks.

It's a big task. Count me in.
-Mark

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 12:13
Glad to know I'm not the only person whose thought about this. It's a brilliant idea, and I would be glad to contribute as some sort of field editor or idea man or general 3rd party armchair publisher/ critique-er :]

Building the database itself shouldn't be too hard, but a tough part will be deciding what information would be included, how many different things are we going to keep track of? Cumulative mileage Springer-Katahdin, mileage from shelter to shelter, shelters themselves, water sources, placenames and landmarks, road crossings, side trails, assorted town info [resupply, meals, lodging, PO], town maps [?], trivia, what else would be in there?

Gathering the data shouldn't be too hard, just time-consuming legwork.

I think the other tough part would be making some kind of interface. Some people, like me, get some sort of sick pleasure by playing with databases and toggling and clicking and mining information. There needs to be some sort of basic idiot-resistant menu system for the casual user to just click and print. Probably some built in templates or 'most requested' layout and print options. Of course, you'd still want to keep backdoor access for the hiker-geeks.

It's a big task. Count me in.
-Mark

That is the beauty about making it Access compatible. You can run a macro that allows the user to just do simple stuff and not mess things up without actually knowing how to use Access, but you could also dump out of the switchboard and have the full file open to the tinkerers like us. The problem with that is not everyone has Access.

Edit:

In case anyone is versed in Access and is interested. My thought is to make a basic table that has a master key, the item description, user notes, and the mileage point calculated from a known point - probably Springer Mountain since I would start the trail demo from there.

Then I would make another table for all shelters that had the same key. Each shelter would include attributes for water, distance to water, capacity, construction date, privy, and notes.

Then another table for road crossings that would include distance to towns and direction to town

Then another table for water, including regularity and notes about the source.

Then another table for Post offices including zip codes, phone numbers, and hours of operation

Then another table for towns with info about the towns. That might be the trickier of the tables which may need to have sub tables to keep it easy to manage.

There would be other tables such as points of interest, overlooks, etc. The point is to make each of these entries a table. That way if someone wants to add a table of their own data, the table can be imported. All that they would have to do is match the entry master key field to the same key in the base table.

Queries would allow the user to select which records are even displayed based on the user defined criteria. Basically a check box menu where the user can chose things like towns, roads, water, points of interest, or whatever. The query could also allow the user to pick which way to sort the field (north to south or south to north) and the start/end points of the query. Then the level of the query data could also be set, such as the amount of info from the town or shelter - so say if I just want to know a shelter is there and could care less about the extra stuff, I could do that. If I wanted to know a town was on a road and how far, but don't want a detailed description of the town, then I could select the fields I want displayed. Determining the distances would simply be a field that generates the numbers using math from the user's defined place of origin for the calculation. So even if the distances chage based on a relocation, the math will sort it out when the print is selected.

After the query is run, then a form could be generated from the query in the lay out I chose based on the type of print plan I want to use.

For Data Entry ease, a form could be created that allows the data entry person to select the type of entry and have a series of fiels to walk them through the entry of that data. There would also be a base form that lists all the entries of the database base table so that could be adjusted.

Kerosene
08-15-2005, 13:00
A few comments/suggestions from the above ideas:

MS-Access works well for a single user or a small workgroup, but I'd step up to a "real" database like SQL Server, at least for the data organization/update piece of the problem. To minimize the initial investment, an open source DBMS like MySQL or PostgreSQL could be used.
This is an ideal application for XML (where you want to be able to programmatically identify and access specific pieces of data) and XSL (where you want to dynamically arrange the data for display in a specific format).
Speaking of open source, WB users could function as an open source community to develop, refine, and evolve the underlying technology over time. The community could even serve as an inexpensive resource to the ATC and/or trail clubs to continuously update the database as new information is validated.
Guidebook publishers could use the database to create their physical book, combining the basic data with value-added enhancements like pictures, drawings, stories, etc. Most new books are printed directly from an underlying database today.
And if you really want to look out there...Eventually you'll be able to carry an "electronic newspaper"; a light, foldable piece of "paper" that displays text and images and can be updated over the Internet. It is supposed to be more readable and provide more viewing space at much less weight than a PDA (although it probably won't have much on-board storage beyond what is being displayed).
I don't view this concept as replacing WB. I view it more as replacing some of the other printed material that may work for some people but isn't as flexible as it could be.

max patch
08-15-2005, 14:33
Personally, I see no need to reinvent the wheel. Between the ALDHA Companion and WF's book, a hiker has virtually all of the info they need to hike the trail - sans shuttle info.

Nice post, Mowgli.

How in the world did we ever thru hike the Trail with only WFs book and the obviously inadequate Data Book?

SGT Rock
08-15-2005, 14:43
Nice post, Mowgli.

How in the world did we ever thru hike the Trail with only WFs book and the obviously inadequate Data Book?
LOL, and back in the early 90s Bill Gates said the Internet would never catch on because you could get everything you need on CD-ROM. See how things can change for the better :D

Kerosene
08-15-2005, 17:17
And back in the 50s Thomas Watson, Sr., CEO of IBM, remarked that, "there is a need in the world for perhaps 5 or 6 of these machines". (Everyone quotes him as referring to what would become the mainframe, although he was referring the the predecessor of the mainframe...room-sized "electronic brains" that would crash twice a day.)