REI Return Policy..

[xalex]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?

[OCDave]

Xalex,

You know not what you have unleashed. Somewhat akin to "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!"

Good Luck and God bless your soul.

[Namtrag]

I wonder if my REI 20% off coupon would be 30% if not for people like the OP...

[HooKooDooKu]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?
Didn't we just go over their return policy? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?98775-REI-Gear-Return)
(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?98775-REI-Gear-Return)


I wonder if my REI 20% off coupon would be 30% if not for people like the OP...
As I see it, since members already get a 10% rebate on full price purchases, the NET value of the 20% coupon is really only 10% (since you won't get the 20% now AND the 10% rebate later).

[Tuckahoe]

Others may not be very kind, but dont you think its wrong to use and even abuse gear thru-hiking and then turn around and exchange it for new gear? How can you in anyway justify what you suggest?

[Namtrag]

As I see it, since members already get a 10% rebate on full price purchases, the NET value of the 20% coupon is really only 10% (since you won't get the 20% now AND the 10% rebate later).

Yes, but if people didn't abuse the return policy, I would get 20% net from the 30% coupon, lol

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Xalex....ignore everyone here who will try to make you feel guilty for employing a policy REI offers. I assume your purpose is not to trash mdse and then return, but to learn what is and isn't right for you along the way (through use, not abuse), which is EXACTLY THE PURPOSE OF THE POLICY!!! REI has changed some of their criteria, but as long as your purchase is within a year, you are either a member or have your receipts, returns and exchanges for any reason are acceptable.

For all those going ballistic over the concept of returning used mdse to REI....the company still enthusiastically promotes its (revised) return policy, on the premise that you cannot know how a product will function until you use it....they wouldn't if they didn't want to. How much it is used before said return is not for you or me to say or judge, but up to the retailer to accept or decline. REI has done what it can to eliminate the fraudulent returns, but they still want their customers to be completely satisfied with the performance of their goods, and willing accept that there will be variable opinions as to what constitutes "acceptable return condition".

Besides, regardless of condition, return items are put up for resale with no warranty or return available.....let the BUYER beware there.

[Pedaling Fool]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.Maybe I'm just an outdated old fart, but this just seems so wrong to me.

[Pedaling Fool]

For all those going ballistic over the concept of returning used mdse to REI....the company still enthusiastically promotes its (revised) return policy, on the premise that you cannot know how a product will function until you use it....they wouldn't if they didn't want to. How much it is used before said return is not for you or me to say or judge, but up to the retailer to accept or decline. REI has done what it can to eliminate the fraudulent returns, but they still want their customers to be completely satisfied with the performance of their goods, and willing accept that there will be variable opinions as to what constitutes "acceptable return condition".

Besides, regardless of condition, return items are put up for resale with no warranty or return available.....let the BUYER beware there.I'm not going ballistic, mainly because I don't shop much at all for clothes; I still have same clothes for years and years and only buy little bits here and there, never shop for a wardrobe. So I'm open that maybe I'm not understanding something here that you normal consumers understand.

I just have a couple of questions: What does REI do with the used clothes that are returned? Does it matter what condition they are in?

[Namtrag]

T & S

In general I would agree, but just seems that most of the time, people that do things like this (at least the few I have met) were almost gleeful over the fact they pulled one over on REI. My through hiker friend said it was fairly common practice to wear your gear out and then return it for new stuff. Just doesn't seem right to me, but if they say it's their policy, I guess it doesn't matter.

[QHShowoman]

What you're describing doing is exactly why REI has put a limit on their returns.

As someone who worked in customer service for REI for several years, I will say this:

It is "acceptable" to return a piece of used gear because it is not performing as you thought it would at the time of purchase. It is not okay to return a piece of gear because you want to upgrade it for a newer, lighter, better model.

It is acceptable to return gear if after normal wear, the product does not retain it's original size or shape (i.e. a form-fitting t-shirt gets stretched out with regular wear, etc.). It is not acceptable to return a piece of gear because you've lost weight or gained weight if you're otherwise satisfied with the product.

REI Sales staff will tell you anything to get you to buy a membership, so they will assuage your concerns with "Don't worry, you can always return it," without getting into the particulars. What you're actually allowed to return really just depends on the customer service person that you deal with. All REI employees get a bonus based on store performance, prorated for the hours they've worked with the company. Those returns eat into a store's bottom line, so now that there's a new return policy to support it, customer service people will be less lenient than they used to be.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

I'm not going ballistic,

PF, if you're not going ballistic, then I didn't mean you. I mean those about whom the OP was warned, and who may yet appear as this thread progresses. REI returns, much like trail magic, are often the cause of heated (in my opinion unwarranted) debate.

No offense meant, just encouragement (and solace if necessary) for the OP. Been there.

[QHShowoman]

I just have a couple of questions: What does REI do with the used clothes that are returned? Does it matter what condition they are in?

If the clothing is still in serviceable condition -- no huge tears, etc. -- it gets saved for an attic/garage sale. But we did have to go through each and every article clothing and throw out the crap we couldn't re-sell.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

T & S

In general I would agree, but just seems that most of the time, people that do things like this (at least the few I have met) were almost gleeful over the fact they pulled one over on REI. My through hiker friend said it was fairly common practice to wear your gear out and then return it for new stuff. Just doesn't seem right to me, but if they say it's their policy, I guess it doesn't matter.

I'm with you there, it doesn't seem right to abuse....but I don't believe that's the OP intent. Trial by trail, while it might seem like abuse, can also just be the way you learn if a product works. There will always be abusers to a system, but it's not cool to assume someone's intent is less than honest.

[QHShowoman]

Besides, regardless of condition, return items are put up for resale with no warranty or return available.....let the BUYER beware there.

REI can't re-sell everything regardless of condition. We actually have to go through all the bins of returns prior to an attic sale and decide what can be re-sold and what needs to be trashed. Some items can never be re-sold, even if they're like new -- like climbing harnesses, bike helmets, and other kinds of protective gear. Some items we could re-sell, but wouldn't because we'd be putting the buyer's safety in jeopardy -- like stoves that were reported as faulty, etc.

[Pedaling Fool]

If the clothing is still in serviceable condition -- no huge tears, etc. -- it gets saved for an attic/garage sale. But we did have to go through each and every article clothing and throw out the crap we couldn't re-sell.Thanks, no wonder they've had to revamp their return policy, but like someone already said, if that's their policy, so be it, let them deal with the consequences. Because I saw your other post and I can see a lot of room for abuse of this policy.

What's funny is I bet a lot of people that use this REI policy probably complain about fracking and fossil fuel use, but this crass consumerism, which REI's policy helps a little in promoting, create more demand for fossil fuels. But they won't see it that way :)

[Teacher & Snacktime]

REI can't re-sell everything regardless of condition. We actually have to go through all the bins of returns prior to an attic sale and decide what can be re-sold and what needs to be trashed. Some items can never be re-sold, even if they're like new -- like climbing harnesses, bike helmets, and other kinds of protective gear. Some items we could re-sell, but wouldn't because we'd be putting the buyer's safety in jeopardy -- like stoves that were reported as faulty, etc.

Understood. I wasn't referring to clothing or items with safety issues, but nice to know there's some screening in place for that.

[greentick]

Scratch and Dent sale!

[QHShowoman]

Thanks, no wonder they've had to revamp their return policy, but like someone already said, if that's their policy, so be it, let them deal with the consequences. Because I saw your other post and I can see a lot of room for abuse of this policy.

What's funny is I bet a lot of people that use this REI policy probably complain about fracking and fossil fuel use, but this crass consumerism, which REI's policy helps a little in promoting, create more demand for fossil fuels. But they won't see it that way :)


I wonder, too, if part of the issue is that at one time, stores like REI and LL Bean really were "specialty" stores when they implemented their liberal return policies. They could have such policies in place because they were selling to serious outdoors enthusiasts that would only really return gear if it truly failed to live up to expectations. And since they were largely mail-order for years, fewer people would bother with returns.

However, with the advent of online sales, expanded merchandise selection, and more retail locations, their customer base has also changed, and their return policy is now subject to being misused in ways that REI never intended.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Maybe I'm just an outdated old fart, but this just seems so wrong to me.


Oh....and yes, you probably are. But then, so am I.

[Wise Old Owl]

Self removed

[Xristos]

Putting a bull***** return on REI's outstanding policy is lame. Test your gear out on weekends, make necessary returns before it gets trashed, get your system down, go on your thru. You can even sell your gear on forums at a slight loss...it's not like you'd be stuck with it. One day that policy will die altogether if the abuse doesn't simmer down. A business can only absorb so much.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Thanks, WOO.

[Wise Old Owl]

Sorry the op! This clearly isn't thought thru - The points are subtracted with returns - if the original poster thinks hiking and returning $2000 worth of stuff on revolving credit with membership is going to work - it wont.


Hey I want to buy a Big Screen TV for the Superbowl and have all my friends over and return it after the game with a rock in the middle of the glass.

Before I do that I am going to justify my feelings on Whiteblaze so all my friends can say "Whooo wish I thought of that! Yea go ahead!"

Do I deserve all my money back - I think not.

[Rasty]

I'm going to return my 1986 Perception Dancer kayak. It's well used but never been abused. I purchased it for $650.

[Starchild]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?

I recently posted that this is what I did with numerous pieces of equipment. I did testing in the field, both before and during my thru. I found out what worked and what didn't. I didn't use them to the point of wearing them out, I used them to the point that I realized it was not going to work. Looking back perhaps my treking poles were pushing it a bit, but treking poles are commonly lifetime warranteed anyway and I only exchanged them 2x because they broke.

And as I understand it this is the exact use of the REI return policy(exception my treking poles) of how it is intended to be used by REI. Textbook, so to speak.

It sounds to me this is exactly how you wish to use there return policy. I do beleive if you talk to the people at REI and tell them you wish to buy items that you may want to return as you refine what you need they would agree that that is the reason for their policy and they welcome your business.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Xalex....I recommend you end this now...with Starchild's appropriate and helpful post. The Blue Meanies are arriving, and it will do you no good to continue. Heed post #2, and get out now...don't look back for updates.

[max patch]

Last week Clark Howard actually had a segment on this. Talked about how REI and Costco had recently changed their long standing return policies because of the ABUSE OF THE RETURN POLICIES BY A MINORITY OF THEIR CUSTOMERS. Gave an example of how someone had returned something they bought in 1970 (!!!) because it no longer met their needs. Talked about how people would buy a TV at Costco and return it 6 months later -- nothing wrong with it -- but solely because the price had dropped and they could rebuy the same TV for less money.

[Starchild]

Xalex....I recommend you end this now...with Starchild's appropriate and helpful post. ...

That is so nice, thank you

SC

[Biggie Master]

The op clearly asked if this was a good idea or not. That's wide open for anyone's opinion, whether or not it's what he/she wanted to be told.

[xalex]

Well, I guess part of my reason for coming up with this line of thinking was to confirm the rather large purchases I've made at REI will serve me well on the trail. My intention isn't to abuse the policy, but I think testing the gear on shorter trips is a reasonable approach.

[Namtrag]

Don't many REI's have rental programs so you can do just that by renting the gear first?

[Rasty]

Don't many REI's have rental programs so you can do just that by renting the gear first?

Yes they do

[Starchild]

Don't many REI's have rental programs so you can do just that by renting the gear first?

I believe so and I also think you can apply that towards the purchase price, however their rental gear is not typical thru hiker equipment, so may be of limited value but worth checking out.

[QHShowoman]

Rentals vary by store and are completely separate from the gear you purchase -- there's no applying of the rental fee to the purchase price of similar gear.

Depending on the store and the state, you can rent tents, sleeping bags/pads, stoves, backpacks, etc.

However, Starchild is right, the gear REI rents is car camping quality (REI Base Camp tents, Camp Bed pads, external frame packs) -- not thru hiker stuff.

[atmilkman]

Xalex,

You know not what you have unleashed. Somewhat akin to "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!"

Good Luck and God bless your soul.

This is just plain good. God bless your soul for your fair warning. Too funny.

[sliderule]

Some items we could re-sell, but wouldn't because we'd be putting the buyer's safety in jeopardy -- like stoves that were reported as faulty, etc.

I am still using two Coleman single burner stoves that I bought (for $8) at an REI attic sale in about 1988. They were returned because they "flared up." That's pretty much a characteristic of any liquid-fueled stove until it warms up. Glad I got them before "buyer's safety" became so important!!!

Too bad that some spilled fuel washed off the "X" that designated the stoves as "attic sale' items.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Don't many REI's have rental programs so you can do just that by renting the gear first?

REI has very few rental options...the tents are only their quarter and half domes. They are unlikely to be what you would choose to purchase...ie too heavy. You don't get to select what you rent. The list is available online.

I've never heard of them apply the rental to a purchase. I was advised against renting if I was planning to buy, as I would lose that $, but if I bought and didn't like my purchase, I could return it. (this advice from the REI salesman)

[double d]

Others may not be very kind, but dont you think its wrong to use and even abuse gear thru-hiking and then turn around and exchange it for new gear? How can you in anyway justify what you suggest?
So true, why would anyone "abuse" this policy of REI? I've been a long time member of REI and the return policy is for legit reasons, not to manipulate a great policy. It seems to me that the OP is really saying is destroy their gear and return it. Sounds like stealing to me.

[Another Kevin]

I had the waistbelt buckle of a pack that I got at REI fail the second time I had it out. (One of the plastic snap fingers cracked.)

I had a hard time explaining to the guy behind the counter that there was nothing else wrong with the pack and I just would appreciate getting a new buckle. (There was one of the right size on the rack.) Apparently, he could replace it under their return policy, but not give me a part to repair it, or have the store repair it? But the store manager overheard, and handed me the buckle plus a $50 coupon (if I recall the amount correctly) for not saddling him with the return.

Sometimes it seems harder to do the right thing.

[Likeapuma]

I had the waistbelt buckle of a pack that I got at REI fail the second time I had it out. (One of the plastic snap fingers cracked.)

I had a hard time explaining to the guy behind the counter that there was nothing else wrong with the pack and I just would appreciate getting a new buckle. (There was one of the right size on the rack.) Apparently, he could replace it under their return policy, but not give me a part to repair it, or have the store repair it?

Bought a Flash 50 on sale, a cinch buckle broke the first day out. Tried to get a replacement buckle from REI.. Nothing, not even one for sale. They offered to replace the entire bag, but no longer had my torso size in stock. CS did reimburse me a few dollars off the order, but it's a bummer.

The good news? It gave me the incentive to take off the top lid & carry a bit less.


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 4

[rickb]

It strikes me as odd that some of those on this list, who claim to believe in sustainability and the environment, would so easily swap out perfectly good gear in the search for perfection simply because they can do so for free.

What a wasteful approach, and what a poor set of value to promote-- even if you take the money out of the equation.

If one buys a filter or pad or whatever from REI, me thinks one should do so with the intent of keeping it, and not with the intent of swapping it out.

I would no more take this approach at REI than I would order a whole slice cherry pie with the intention of sending it back after taking just the few bites I really wanted.

[rocketsocks]

shoot.....that pie wouldn't have a chance :D

[atmilkman]

Hand me that pie Rick, I'll see if I can't fix it for you.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

shoot.....that pie wouldn't have a chance :D

A cheesecake would have even less chance....especially if Coach was around. Too bad REI doesn't stock backpacking cheesecake. It would be their biggest seller......no need for a return policy.

[QHShowoman]

Actually...REI DOES stocking backpacking cheesecake: http://www.rei.com/product/722165/backpackers-pantry-dark-chocolate-cheesecake-2-servings

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Oh no....THAT'S not cheesecake....it's cardboard chips with pretty packaging.

[Starchild]

It strikes me as odd that some of those on this list, who claim to believe in sustainability and the environment, would so easily swap out perfectly good gear in the search for perfection simply because they can do so for free.

What a wasteful approach, and what a poor set of value to promote-- even if you take the money out of the equation.

If one buys a filter or pad or whatever from REI, me thinks one should do so with the intent of keeping it, and not with the intent of swapping it out.

I would no more take this approach at REI than I would order a whole slice cherry pie with the intention of sending it back after taking just the few bites I really wanted.

This is an interesting take, but one I feel one that is self defeating. The value of being in nature and the respect for the environment far outweighs a initial confusion of the selection of gear. Being able to try and make mistakes along the way is part of the human experience. We all need a chance to find out what works and what doesn't as a process of self discovery. The best way to build respect and appreciation for the environment is to be in it and to be in it often. if one has the correct gear they are more likely to gain this respect then if they give up because of hardships due to incorrect initial gear choice. I do feel this initial adjustment the OP is expressing falls under this and is overall, over a lifetime, better for the environment if they have a better experience in the environment.

Peace

[Namtrag]

I'd like to try out a BMW, Mercedes, and Audi to see which one fits best for me, but I sure can't give them back once I buy them!

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Are you kidding? If Mercedes-Benz offered unconditional returns then we'd be hearing no protests about using that policy!

[OCDave]

...Being able to try and make mistakes along the way is part of the human experience. We all need a chance to find out what works and what doesn't as a process of self discovery. ...

Life is risky. Mistakes are part of the human experience however, one must be accountable for the consequences of the risks to which they expose themselves. Without a full appreciation of the consequences of an act, where is the self-discovery? What would discourage one from a similar consequence in the future if they did not bear that burden in the past?

Just a thought

[Starchild]

Life is risky. Mistakes are part of the human experience however, one must be accountable for the consequences of the risks to which they expose themselves. Without a full appreciation of the consequences of an act, where is the self-discovery? What would discourage one from a similar consequence in the future if they did not bear that burden in the past?

Just a thought

The consequences are clear, make a mistake at REI and there is forgiveness and acceptance for you being human, Make a mistake at some of the other outfitters there may not that level of forgiveness and acceptance. Chose wisely as part of the consequence you wish to experience if you make a error.

What good is bearing any burden when the goal is learning.

[Namtrag]

Mistake is one thing. Wanting a new backpack because the old one is a lb heavier than a new one you saw is not a mistake IMO.

[Starchild]

Mistake is one thing. Wanting a new backpack because the old one is a lb heavier than a new one you saw is not a mistake IMO.

Can you show me where the OP indicated this desire? Or anything close to this?

[Namtrag]

Sorry, I mixed this up with the other REI return thread! My apologies

[OCDave]

What good is bearing any burden when the goal is learning.

We learn from the burden of our mistakes. One who would allow others and expect others to carry the burden of their mistakes- has learned an entirely diffent message. Then again, It does seem this is the would we have come to accept.

[Rolls Kanardly]

I bought a tent at REI's and only opened it up on the carpet. Decided it was good but too heavy. It was my fault I did not do my home work, not REI's. I now have two tents and will keep both. "Rolls Kanardly"

[OCDave]

I bought a tent at REI's and only opened it up on the carpet. Decided it was good but too heavy. It was my fault I did not do my home work, not REI's. I now have two tents and will keep both. "Rolls Kanardly"

No Burden, no problem- Your use of the REI return policy is exactly as intended. The OP was planning purchases that would inevitably be returned relieving themselves any burden of thought in to their gear selection upfront. Making a mistake and learning from that mistake is entirely different from the OP stated goal.

Find that after several trips your tent is too heavy, return it; that the intent of the policy. Buy a tent with the intent of using it for several trips and returning it; you are a creep. Buy a tent with no forethought whether it is right for you prior to using it for several trips because there is no burden to yourself in doing so...just plain thoughtless/spoiled/ (any other derogetory term here)

[Wise Old Owl]

Oh no....THAT'S not cheesecake....it's cardboard chips with pretty packaging.


SSSir THAT IS Cheesecake! ( for the trail! )

[xalex]

Can you show me where the OP indicated this desire? Or anything close to this?
Thanks for the defense. Some people here are pretty uptight and discouraged my partner from even getting online and posting here :| It was just an idea as REI is quite expensive for most people in just about every category of gear.

I'm a new hiker so I'm just learning.. trying to do everything right but you can only get so much right the first time, without someone with experience advising you. That's why I'm trying to learn through these forums. I will definitely be more considerate of the return policy going forward based on what I read here.. I still believe there's value in exchanging items that simply aren't working for you.

[Pedaling Fool]

The consequences are clear, make a mistake at REI and there is forgiveness and acceptance for you being human, Make a mistake at some of the other outfitters there may not that level of forgiveness and acceptance. Chose wisely as part of the consequence you wish to experience if you make a error.

What good is bearing any burden when the goal is learning.Problem is that you make something so easy on someone's mistakes they don't learn. That's not a comment on the OP, nor the return policy of REI; it's just a fact of life.

This NEW return policy may or may not work for REI, I don't know only time will tell, but the old one didn't and that's why they had to change it.

One thing is clear, you can not have these type of policies throughout business, simply because people will abuse these policies. You can talk about the "human experience" all you want, but business can't look at it that way, they have to think about human nature.

BTW, don't think that mistakes you make out in nature will be easily forgiven; nature will make you pay, the only return policy in nature is your return to the earth.

[HooKooDooKu]

It was just an idea as REI is quite expensive for most people in just about every category of gear.
From what I've seen, it's not that REI is 'expensive'... it's just that they charge "full price" on everything (excluding sales). But if you are an REI member (which is only a one-time fee of about $20), you later get a 10% rebate on everything you purchased. When you consider that some manufacturers require all retailers to charge "full price" for their merchandise (except for clearance sales), REI winds up being a net discount.

Case in point: Cascade Designs NeoAir air matrices - with the exception of a few places that sell 2nd's at a discount, EVERY retailer sells these at the full retail price. So buying at REI you at least get the 10% rebate later.

There are many other places that I can get items for about 10% off of full retail. When that happens, it is just a mater of getting your 10% discount now v. 10% discount later with REI.

So when you add in that you can purchase an item at REI, try it out to see if it meets your needs, and return it if you realize that it doesn't, REI pricing isn't out of line at all.

[Starchild]

We learn from the burden of our mistakes. One who would allow others and expect others to carry the burden of their mistakes- has learned an entirely diffent message. Then again, It does seem this is the would we have come to accept.

You are quoting me out of context. This involved sustainability and the environmental aspect of the REI return policy and using it to find out what gear works and what doesn't. The initial point, as I took the post, is it seems wasteful in such a way that such a environmentally conscious person would object to (that person being the one who is buying the gear/returning it).

I disagreed with the argument, because as one has a wonderful time experiencing the environment, they will build a deeper respect for it, which will further an environmental and sustainability mindset. So the initial adjustment period may be a little wasteful at times, but the long term benefit is better for the environment because the person will learn how to respect it better by the time spent in it.

The part about learning is this initial adjustment period, since the goal is so important, having the person come closer to the environment to grow in respect for it, is the learning process should be accelerated by allowing gear switching if a mistake is made. After all the lesson is if you make a mistake, don't continue to carry the burden, make the correction and get on with a better life. Without such policies as REI, the person may struggle with incorrect gear and give up or not spend as much time in the environment, which is a detriment to the building of the environmental respect that the poster was speaking of.

One may argue that the person should have made the proper gear selection a head of time. I contend that this is not possible for most, as being in nature is a process of self discovery, and only after being there do you find out what you really need. And I do believe this last part is the one reason behind the mindset of the REI return policy, well that and encouraging people to shop there over other places.

Peace

[QHShowoman]

Thanks for the defense. Some people here are pretty uptight and discouraged my partner from even getting online and posting here :| It was just an idea as REI is quite expensive for most people in just about every category of gear.


REI can definitely be pricey. As much as an REI loyalist as I am, I still do a lot of research before I make my purchases and see if I can find what I want cheaper elsewhere. Of my "big 3" -- only my pack came from REI and that's because I got it while I was working there and therefore, got a good deal on it.

Which leads me to another suggestion -- if you live near an REI and have the time, apply for a part-time job. It's a great way to meet people with similar interests in the outdoors, learn about gear, AND you get an awesome discount, in addition to getting paid. So you can gear up for your thru at a huge discount AND sock away any money you make (that you don't spend on gear!) for your hike. I loved working at REI and if I could afford to do it full-time, I would. You also get awesome discounts and pro-deals with vendors. Usually, part-timers only have to work 2 4-hour shifts a week and a weekend day.

[Tuckahoe]

The part about learning is this initial adjustment period, since the goal is so important, having the person come closer to the environment to grow in respect for it, is the learning process should be accelerated by allowing gear switching if a mistake is made. After all the lesson is if you make a mistake, don't continue to carry the burden, make the correction and get on with a better life. Without such policies as REI, the person may struggle with incorrect gear and give up or not spend as much time in the environment, which is a detriment to the building of the environmental respect that the poster was speaking of.

One may argue that the person should have made the proper gear selection a head of time. I contend that this is not possible for most, as being in nature is a process of self discovery, and only after being there do you find out what you really need. And I do believe this last part is the one reason behind the mindset of the REI return policy, well that and encouraging people to shop there over other places.

Peace

It's sometimes difficult to make good gear choices and as we learn through experiences we will make better choices. But as we learn isn't it our own responsibility to bear the cost of our choices? In the retail world if a vendor delivers a product that is free of defect and performs as intended shouldnt we as the consumer carry the responsibility?

[Coffee]

It's sometimes difficult to make good gear choices and as we learn through experiences we will make better choices. But as we learn isn't it our own responsibility to bear the cost of our choices? In the retail world if a vendor delivers a product that is free of defect and performs as intended shouldnt we as the consumer carry the responsibility?

There are occasions where REI sales staff explicitly suggest trying new gear to see if it works out and to return it if it does not. I was quite surprised that REI sales staff would suggest this even for footwear. It seems to me that this is part of REI's business model and baked into the somewhat higher prices vs. shopping for the lowest bid online. The calculation apparently is that customer loyalty will eventually result in profitable customers even if most people end up making some gear mistakes at REI's expense.

As long as returns are made in good faith (gear really doesn't work out, not wearing out gear and then returning it), I don't see a problem with doing so. I also agree with the one year limit. There is no way that one year isn't enough time to ensure satisfaction with a purchase.

[Starchild]

It's sometimes difficult to make good gear choices and as we learn through experiences we will make better choices. But as we learn isn't it our own responsibility to bear the cost of our choices? In the retail world if a vendor delivers a product that is free of defect and performs as intended shouldnt we as the consumer carry the responsibility?

In the retail world would not that be up to the retailer?

[hikerboy57]

all thats necessary is an internal moral compass.

[Rolls Kanardly]

When you consider that some manufacturers require all retailers to charge "full price" for their merchandise (except for clearance sales).

Making all retailers sell at one price looks a lot like price fixing.

[Starchild]

I just want to add in LL Bean's founder's quote about returns. "I do not consider the sale complete until the goods are worn out and the customer is still satisfied" yes this is a REI thread, but I think it is important to state the intent behind such a policy and I do feel this expresses it very well. Many here would seem to disagree and state if the goods are worn out you bought them, but the retailer may not agree with these posters as they value their loyalty, so even if you wear them out they would rather take them back then have you feel dissatisfied. So is not that the decision of the retailer and the person wanting to return the item and not you?

From http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cni5NMvXJJgJ:www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/guarantee.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

And this policy states even if you wear it out they will take it back, the OP expresses only trying it out and still on decent condition, and if it doesn't work take it back.


Peace

[hikerboy57]

Making all retailers sell at one price looks a lot like price fixing.
retailers cannot be forced to sell aproduct for a fixed price.they can, however, discontinue sales to a retailer who consistently discounts the suggested retail price( making it effectively the same as price "fixing". the idea behind this is primarily to retain the integrity of the label.
in the auto business,there are dealers who consistently sell below invoice, because they are big enough to sell the finance paper, could care less about what they actually sell the car for.GM is changing advertising so you will no longer see ads that advertise stupid low prices that even the dealer cant honor.the only advertising allowable will be the nationally advertised programs, putting all dealers on a level playing field. they feel that discounting the car cheapens the name.i agree.
the same philosophy applies.

[hikerboy57]

thre are companies that go over and above when it comes to customer service. osprey is one. starwin, who i hiked with this spring, had an aura65 lge that she had bought the summer before. osprey replaced the pack for her in damascus for a medium, as the old packs frame was too big for her, on the pretense that she should have been measured properly to begin with.
but i do have an issue with people who would intentionally abuse the policy simply because theyre "entitled" to return whatever they want for any reason .

[QHShowoman]

I just want to add in LL Bean's founder's quote about returns. "I do not consider the sale complete until the goods are worn out and the customer is still satisfied" yes this is a REI thread, but I think it is important to state the intent behind such a policy and I do feel this expresses it very well. Many here would seem to disagree and state if the goods are worn out you bought them, but the retailer may not agree with these posters as they value their loyalty, so even if you wear them out they would rather take them back then have you feel dissatisfied. So is not that the decision of the retailer and the person wanting to return the item and not you?

From http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cni5NMvXJJgJ:www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/guarantee.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

And this policy states even if you wear it out they will take it back, the OP expresses only trying it out and still on decent condition, and if it doesn't work take it back.



So, let's say you buy a new pair of boots. You love the boots and are so satisfied with them that you wear them on every hike for 10 years, until you wear them out. Do you, in good faith, feel perfectly okay about returning them to LL Bean, REI, etc. and claiming that you are suddenly not satisfied with them?

Because that's the real intent behind the 100% satisfaction guarantee at both REI and LL Bean. No one in their right mind expects a customer to use an object to the point of wearing it out and then return it claiming they're no longer satisfied. It's not a trade-in or trade-up policy.

And if that is what the OP intends to do, that's a misuse of such a policy. But if the OP wants to buy gear s/he thinks will work, take it on a few shakedown trips, and return it if it doesn't, that's within the bounds of the policy.

RamblingHiker said it best:
As long as returns are made in good faith (gear really doesn't work out, not wearing out gear and then returning it), I don't see a problem with doing so. I also agree with the one year limit. There is no way that one year isn't enough time to ensure satisfaction with a purchase.

[HooKooDooKu]

Making all retailers sell at one price looks a lot like price fixing.
There's nothing illegal for a company to effectively force all retailers to sell its product at a fixed price.
It is illegal for multiple companies that offer similar products to collude and force retailers to sell competing products for the same price.

Example: It is ok for Platypus to force all retailers to sell its one liter soft bottle for $8.95
Check it out - if you Google "platypus 34 oz softbottle", you will see that LLBean, Campmor, REI, and CampSaver all sell it for $8.95. The only exception is BackcountryGear (who appears to be selling 2012 models at a discount).

Example: It is NOT ok for the CEOs of Platypus, Sawyer, Camelbak, and Evernew to get on a conference call and together decide that all three of them are going to force retailers to sell all of their 1 Liter soft bottles for $8.95. - that's illegal price fixing.

[Another Kevin]

I bought a tent at REI's and only opened it up on the carpet. Decided it was good but too heavy. It was my fault I did not do my home work, not REI's. I now have two tents and will keep both. "Rolls Kanardly"

Hmm. I live about 2.5 hours drive from the nearest REI. I have ordered things, decided once they arrived that they didn't quite fit my needs, and returned them in new, saleable condition. (Generally, I ordered something else in their place.) Given that REI's return policy allowed for this, I thought it was entirely appropriate. You can't always get a full impression of a product from a spec sheet on a web site, particularly for questions like, "do I need a Large or an Extra Large?" How is this different from trying something on in the store? (And in fact, REI encouraged me to do this: they'd rather handle the product exchange than lose the sale.)


There's nothing illegal for a company to effectively force all retailers to sell its product at a fixed price.

It was indeed illegal from 1911 through 2007, which is why people still make noise about it. It wasn't until the Leegin Creative Leather Products (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leegin_Creative_Leather_Products,_Inc._v._PSKS,_In c.) case that the Supreme Court overturned the 1911 precedent finding that vertical price restraints were illegal per se under the Sherman Act.

[Starchild]

So, let's say you buy a new pair of boots. You love the boots and are so satisfied with them that you wear them on every hike for 10 years, until you wear them out. Do you, in good faith, feel perfectly okay about returning them to LL Bean, REI, etc. and claiming that you are suddenly not satisfied with them?

Because that's the real intent behind the 100% satisfaction guarantee at both REI and LL Bean. No one in their right mind expects a customer to use an object to the point of wearing it out and then return it claiming they're no longer satisfied. It's not a trade-in or trade-up policy.

And if that is what the OP intends to do, that's a misuse of such a policy. But if the OP wants to buy gear s/he thinks will work, take it on a few shakedown trips, and return it if it doesn't, that's within the bounds of the policy.

RamblingHiker said it best:

Bold mine

What you said not withstanding, it appears that the OP does not intend to come anywhere near the limits you express in the other parts of your post, and indeed wants to try things on a few shakedown trips to see what works and what doesn't, which you indicate is within the scope and intent of the REI return policy. (which I believe you indicated earlier).

[sliderule]

It seems to me that this is part of REI's business model and baked into the somewhat higher prices vs. shopping for the lowest bid online.



Just one problem with that theory. REI's return policy was around long before "online" was even a figment of anyone's imagination.

[Pedaling Fool]

Bold mine

What you said not withstanding, it appears that the OP does not intend to come anywhere near the limits you express in the other parts of your post, and indeed wants to try things on a few shakedown trips to see what works and what doesn't, which you indicate is within the scope and intent of the REI return policy. (which I believe you indicated earlier).
It kind of doesn't matter what the intention of the OP is; however, if you read it (below) you can see a lot of room for abuse by other shoppers.

They've already had to change their policy once, due to abuse, it remains to be seen if they will need to make changes in the future. One thing is for sure, it depends on how many customers take advantage of their liberal return policy, in other words it's the people that "Suck it up" that allow them to keep this policy. And "Suck it up", does NOT mean one does not return bonifide faulty gear; it means they take responsibility for their mistake.

And you're characterization of gear making one's experience in the natural pleasurable world is way overstated. Note, I said overstated, not invalid.


Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?

[Pedaling Fool]

And you're characterization of gear making one's experience in the natural pleasurable world is way overstated. Note, I said overstated, not invalid.

Should read:


... natural world pleasurable ...

[hikerboy57]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?
i would suggest calling rei customer service and posing the question directly to them.
i was in an rei this morning, and asked one of the clerks the same question,told her about the running debate here, and she said that would be a deliberate abuse of their policy.supposedly one could manufacture a legitimate complaint to justify the return without too much trouble, but they certainly wouldnt encourage the exchange of gear simply to support a hikers trial and error learning curve.

[Hill Ape]

I think yall are making this way to complicated. OP clearly said she was satisfied with the product. That's it and everything to me. OP bought a product based on her wants/needs at the time of purchase. She has used the product for a year, and been satisfied with it. Now, her wants have changed, not her satisfaction. Return Policy 100% Satisfaction GuaranteedWe stand behind everything we sell. If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase, except items purchased from REI-OUTLET which must be returned within 30 days of purchase.
REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents.

[QHShowoman]

I think yall are making this way to complicated. OP clearly said she was satisfied with the product. That's it and everything to me. OP bought a product based on her wants/needs at the time of purchase. She has used the product for a year, and been satisfied with it. Now, her wants have changed, not her satisfaction.


Wrong thread.

[Hill Ape]

Wrong thread. lol, good point, never mind

[Dogwood]

Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on exchanging used gear at REI frequently while hiking? Inevitably I know we're going to be changing and refining our gear not only prior to our 2014 thru but also on the trail.

I figure this is a cheap way to do this..I figure maybe we can just spend like $2,000 and get the money into REI, and have plenty of wiggle room and store credit to refine and return as needed.. even though it kind of feels like I may be abusing their generous policies? Does anyone have any thoughts if this is a good idea or no?


Even though I recently felt that REI was being unreasonable to me when had my first ever issue attempting to return an un-used with REI tags still on brand new one size too small pieces of clothing(one piece being REI brand!) that were gifts to me that I had no proof of purchase that I simply wished to exchange for XL sizes I think your entire scenerio is unscrupulous at best. Using gear and then returning it, even if REI allowed you to, for the specific purposes of gaining something for nothing, as in the gear to be returned wasn't defective, wrong sized, or under warranty, etc is extremely shady.

REI, as of 6/1/13 has set proof of purchase and time limit requirements on returning merchandise. REI has DEFINITELY gotten more stringent with their at one time generous and liberal return policy. I though it was unreasonable with what they did to me recently(I will shop for more gear elsewhere!), but that in no way
excuses or condones what it sounds your motives are!

[Dogwood]

REI can definitely be pricey...
Which leads me to another suggestion -- if you live near an REI and have the time, apply for a part-time job. It's a great way to meet people with similar interests in the outdoors, learn about gear, AND you get an awesome discount, in addition to getting paid. So you can gear up for your thru at a huge discount AND sock away any money you make (that you don't spend on gear!) for your hike. I loved working at REI and if I could afford to do it full-time, I would. You also get awesome discounts and pro-deals with vendors. Usually, part-timers only have to work 2 4-hour shifts a week and a weekend day.

Can I tell I'll them QHShowoman sent me? Can I put you down as a reference?:D

[Rasty]

Even though I recently felt that REI was being unreasonable to me when had my first ever issue attempting to return an un-used with REI tags still on brand new one size too small pieces of clothing(one piece being REI brand!) that were gifts to me that I had no proof of purchase that I simply wished to exchange for XL sizes I think your entire scenerio is unscrupulous at best. Using gear and then returning it, even if REI allowed you to, for the specific purposes of gaining something for nothing, as in the gear to be returned wasn't defective, wrong sized, or under warranty, etc is extremely shady.

REI, as of 6/1/13 has set proof of purchase and time limit requirements on returning merchandise. REI has DEFINITELY gotten more stringent with their at one time generous and liberal return policy. I though it was unreasonable with what they did to me recently(I will shop for more gear elsewhere!), but that in no way
excuses or condones what it sounds your motives are!

The policy doesn't fit with current American culture. It was a great policy in the kinder, gentler and more moral 1990's. :rolleyes:

[QHShowoman]

Can I tell I'll them QHShowoman sent me? Can I put you down as a reference?:D


Of course. :D:D