View Full Version : Surprised with local day hikers NY bearMT
Went for a 3 day 2 night section in Harriman St park, started at BearMT. During my hike to west mt shelter i noticed i had 2 people following me with no gear and half hour till sun down, finally one approached me and asked if i was going to the exit??? I had to stop and take it all in they had no water, map, shelter, gps, any bearing at all and no flash light. I was amazed at the people hiking that day never seen that before. I helped them out but really? anyone else run into this
Trailweaver
10-07-2013, 18:27
Wow. Never heard of that one. They didn't get a clue when the trail sign said "Appalachian Trail?" Wonder if they would have thru hiked?
when i said if they keep going that way they end up in the smokies, they laughed then the o sh$% face kicked in lol
da fungo
10-07-2013, 18:43
That sort of stupidity with regard to personal outdoor safety is very common, almost the norm, on Dunnfield Trail to Sunfish Pond in the Dealaware Water Gap. I've been told, but can't verify, that that Recreation Area has the highest annual death toll of all National Park sites. Both problems, in the water and on the trail, are due to proximity to NYC (>80 miles from the GWB on I-80), so clueless city dwellers can plan an afternoon in the outdoors with no planning. I've seen entire families in street shoes - cockroach killers on the men and high heels on the women, the kids in flipflops) 2 miles from the trailhead, and already in trouble. But I suspect that it is the same near most major metro areas.
But you know what? I'm glad that they're out there. Some will become lovers, or at least supporters, of the outdoors. Some will never come back. And a few of the worst will improve the gene pool by removing themselves from it.
Sarcasm the elf
10-07-2013, 19:02
Went for a 3 day 2 night section in Harriman St park, started at BearMT. During my hike to west mt shelter i noticed i had 2 people following me with no gear and half hour till sun down, finally one approached me and asked if i was going to the exit??? I had to stop and take it all in they had no water, map, shelter, gps, any bearing at all and no flash light. I was amazed at the people hiking that day never seen that before. I helped them out but really? anyone else run into this
Driver8 has a similar story from one of the state parks in Connecticut. He ended up having to accompany them out because they didnt have a flashlight and didnt know how to follow the trail in the dark.
I've run into many similar situations with varying degrees of unpreparedness, it's become apparent to me that a certain portion of the urban/suburban population honestly believes that all places open to the public must have ammenities and be free of hazards.
hikerboy57
10-07-2013, 19:07
that section of harriman has quite a few trails, and very easy to get off track if you dont have a map.with a map, its almost impossible to get lost. they could have day hiked in either from wm o brien parking lot, or the lot at the inn.as harriman is accessible by mass transit, as well as being close to major highways, it is also a recreational center for thousands of families.its amazing,really, that there havent been more stories such as yours, even more amazing that i havent heard of anyone ever getting nighted in the park unintentionally, although it must have had to have happened.
Very true
Lol weeding the gene pool
Sarcasm the elf
10-07-2013, 19:17
But you know what? I'm glad that they're out there. Some will become lovers, or at least supporters, of the outdoors. Some will never come back. And a few of the worst will improve the gene pool by removing themselves from it.
I certainly agree with this as well and often remind myself that sucking at something really is the first step in being good at something.
Most people i've met on the trail that are suffering from their own inexperience or stupidity seem to know that they're still out having an adventure. i really do believe that many of the will return with more respect for the trail and better prepared.
I do agree some people are not prepared/prepped properly for the job at hand.
I can relate to that as I forgot my brand new spork at home. Eating became a chore and inhaling a noodle like a savage and coughing up a lung is not fun, especially in front of a group of strangers lol.
da fungo
10-07-2013, 19:54
Yeah, I'm sure we've pulled stupid tricks on ourselves - I certainly have. Just maybe 2 years ago, my GF and I got disoriented (lost) in the woods without a map - and I could have picked one up at the trailhead. Luckiky, we ran into another couple who did have a map well before sunset.
hikerboy57
10-07-2013, 20:07
im only alive because ive had 56 years of good luck.
atmilkman
10-07-2013, 20:47
im only alive because ive had 56 years of good luck.
+1 here on that, literally. Some people say that if it wasn't for bad luck they wouldn't have no luck at all. But to me, being able to even say that means they've had some sort of good luck.
Another Kevin
10-07-2013, 21:19
I've hit the same sort of thing about half the times I've been to Harriman/Bear Mountain. I recall late one evening walking out to Tuxedo on the Ramapo-Dunderberg trail and running into a guy and his daughter. She can't be more than four. He asked which way was out to the train station. I said, "We're going there ourselves. Follow us."
He answered, "Wait, I can see it. It's right down there! You're going the wrong way." And he tried to help his daughter to cut the switchbacks and scramble down the hill. I know my group beat him out, because when the trail next passed below him, they were still struggling. I hollered up and offered to climb back up and help, but he got all huffy. I felt sorry for the kid.
Another time (OK, this was at North/South Lakes, but that gets the city folk too), a guy with a couple of kids aged about 14 and ten greeted me with, "Uhm, you wouldn't have happened to have saved a napkin or two from your lunch, would you?"
"No, but I've got a roll of toilet paper in my pack, will that help?"
"That's just what we need!"
"Then you probably need a trowel and hand sanitizer, too?"
"What's the trowel for?"
:eek: "Uhm, you dig a hole and bury it."
"What if I just have the kid step off the trail a bit?"
"No, you don't get it. You step 150 feet off the trail, and then you dig a hole."
"Busybody!"
Still, I noticed the squirmy kid looking at my stuff as I was getting the TP out - and noticing what else I had in my pack. I think he might have realized that I knew a bit more about hiking than his dad - because he saw that I'd brought other stuff I might need, like a jacket, a headlamp and a map. ("Clueless weekender" is at least a short step above "touron.") And he looked considerably less squirmy when he came back. His brother thought it was pretty weird that I did a POBO (Pack Off, Boots Off) stop while I was waiting. But he'd come about nine miles less that day than I had.
I've also dealt with "They said that there was a trail junction about a half a mile from the campground and I should turn right on a yellow trail."
"Yeah, that's right. You passed it about two-and-a-half miles back, though."
:eek:
Oh, well, I'm a fine one to talk, being a clueless weekender myself. :)
atmilkman
10-07-2013, 21:35
That's funny AK, both those stories. Especially the one with the guy playing Lewis and Clark in front of his little girl who will never remember anyway. Poor little thing, suffering over dad's ego.
importman77
10-08-2013, 06:43
I had a similar experience last spring. I left my truck at 3 forks and shuttled around to springer for my hike. It was a cool day with some rain. When I made it back to 3 forks it was nearly dark and there were two young ladies there that were lost. They had just gone out for a short walk starting at the swinging bridge over the Toccoa. I think it was somewhere around 7-8 miles away by trail. They said they kept walking trying to find their way out. I believe they hiked the BMT to get there. Anyway it took me about 2 hours round trip by road to get them back to where they needed to be. I really didn't mind. They were good company and I felt good about helping someone in trouble.
Weather-man
10-08-2013, 10:28
I moved to the upstate NY area in 1970 and lived within 2 miles of the AT in Harriman. I've seen many folks stumble out of the woods in the morning, cold and wet, after what I can only assume was a sleepless night in the woods. You'll see folks hiking in Harriman with a suit on and dress shoes....funny, I guess their point of reference is Central park.
Harriman, Bear Mountain and the W. Point training area is actually where I cut my teeth with extended winter camping and bouncing around the woods for a week or more in my early teens. In those days the woods in Bear mountain and Harriman were pretty and pristine, with hardly any hikers. In the mid to late 70s the situation began to change and droves of folks began to drive up from the Bronx and Yonkers to enjoy the park. The problem was that the NYC urban dwellers generally had a different perspective on what "enjoyment" of the outdoors meant.
Their time in the parks and lakes generally involved booze, dope and boom boxes. I have seen folks carry dozens of cases of beer into the woods, camp on the trail and then leave all of their garbage and most of their equipment at the "camp site" before they stumbled out of the woods. Especially at risk were trail heads that had parking places right off the Palisades Parkway or 7 lakes drive.
There is one particular trail that I used to use that led from 7 Lakes drive into the Pine Meadow lakes. It was a beautiful trail with moss covered rocks, streams and even a little waterfall in the Spring. The last time I visited that trail the first 1/4 to 1/2 mile was full of trash, diapers, broken bottles, discarded tents, sleeping bags and all the rest. This was in the mid 80's and I haven't used that trail since...it was that depressing. I still go to Pine meadow but over the Ramapo mountains instead....a much harder, more primitive hike and keeps the urbanites to a minimum.
A nice memory from Harriman was meeting my first AT thru hiker in 1974 at the Shelter up the mountain from route 202. A friend and I were in the mountains for a few days and bumped into this gaunt guy who's first words to us were "do you guys have any food?". In those days I had no idea that the AT ran to GA....I thought it was just a local trail by my house! In fact I thought this guy was a bum!
Needless to say we gave this guy just about everything we had and he wolfed it all down. I remember him asking where he was...NJ or NY, and how far the Hudson river was. I guess in those days there wasn't an AWOL guide! This guy apparently just started walking North from Springer with a ruck and a dream....have to admire that. We named him the "hungry hiker" and resupplied him over the next few days until he went on his way. I still admire that guy....he just went for a walk in the woods!
Driver8 has a similar story from one of the state parks in Connecticut. He ended up having to accompany them out because they didnt have a flashlight and didnt know how to follow the trail in the dark.
I've run into many similar situations with varying degrees of unpreparedness, it's become apparent to me that a certain portion of the urban/suburban population honestly believes that all places open to the public must have ammenities and be free of hazards.
That was about a year ago. The guys I ran into and helped get to trailhead got lost in Sleeping Giant State Park in CT, a busy place like Harriman, also with a lot of trails. I think they turned the wrong way and got lost, which is easy to do there. They had no maps and were using their cell phones for light, so their unpreparedness was part of the problem.
Fortunately, I knew the park well and had a good light source - it had just turned dark in the 10 minutes before I ran into them. It took us about 45 minutes to hike out about 2 miles, but we made it ok. There were quite a few local SAR people waiting for us - was a good feeling to help those kids. Fortunately most relatively unprepared people hike in the middle of the day - this was true of me when I first got into hiking, though I always brought a map and/or read a guidebook before hitting the trail.
The Greenman
10-08-2013, 12:16
Last week, after hiking Storm King mtn. with the fam - saw a vehicle stopped on the southbound side of the Palisades Pkwy. The parents and kids were outside their SUV feeding a coyote. "Nice doggie!"
" I've been told, but can't verify, that that Recreation Area has the highest annual death toll of all National Park sites."
I can verify that at least through somewhat anecdotal evidence. I go on a canoe trip down the Delaware from Milford, PA to the DWG every summer. The people that I go with have been doing this trip for the last 10+ years. They've been stopped in the water by rangers right before getting to the beach/landing area at DWG due to drowning victims more than once. People go in the river unaware of the strong current beyond the shore. I would definitely believe that this NP has the highest death toll.
Starchild
10-08-2013, 13:09
I've helped many a hiker in that area. It's a big NYC draw and the hiking trails are very tempting (as one can get to the tower on Bear Mtn), and they recently redid the AT to accommodate all the foot traffic. It's no big surprise that day trippers get a bit lost up there and head deeper into the park instead of back to Bear Mtn Inn.
My wife and I were hiking down the trail from Wheeler Peak in Great Basin NP and just as we were reaching the treeline we came across a couple with a young child. The girl was telling them that she didn't want to go any further and they were telling her that everything was fine. They were carrying no food or water that we could see and they actually asked us to tell the young girl that it wasn't far to the top. We advised them that to the contrary it was far and it was not easy and that perhaps they should rethink the hike. I think it at least dissuaded the mother because as we moved on we could hear her and the husband arguing.
" I've been told, but can't verify, that that Recreation Area has the highest annual death toll of all National Park sites."
I can verify that at least through somewhat anecdotal evidence. I go on a canoe trip down the Delaware from Milford, PA to the DWG every summer. The people that I go with have been doing this trip for the last 10+ years. They've been stopped in the water by rangers right before getting to the beach/landing area at DWG due to drowning victims more than once. People go in the river unaware of the strong current beyond the shore. I would definitely believe that this NP has the highest death toll.
~I have a Milford, PA mailing address. Every year there is at least one drowning in the DWG area. I think there were two this year. Last year a kid got bit by a rabid beaver too. That is all I can remember off the top of my head. The two this year were a boy who got sucked under and a city guy too; separate incidents. Around my area we call them Citiots. No respect for nature and bad guidance by disrespectful adults.
I was hiking through Desolation Wilderness near Tahoe. It was about a couple hours from dark and I stumble upon two guys and two girls. They had no clue where they were. There was 100% snow, they had no map, compass or GPS and no clue where they were at or even what trailhead they hiked in from. I was able to get them back on a trail (under feet of snow) and pointed them in the general direction. The best part was that the guy weren't wearing shirts. real smart on the snow. Suspect that nasty sunburn will be a good reminder of stupidity.
I rely on good luck and the kindness of strangers.....
BobTheBuilder
10-09-2013, 16:20
Six years ago I was doing a section hike of the Smokies. Around 5 p.m. I had just stopped for the evening at Siler's Bald Shelter and was unpacking my bag when a man came in from the trail to the north, asking me where Silers Bald was. He had no gear and was wearing jeans, tennis shoes, and a flannel shirt. I told him that according to my guidebook it was .2 miles back the way he had come. He told me I was an idiot because he had been to Siler's Bald as a kid and he remembered what it looked like, and he hadn't passed it. I told him that I had just done the 15 miles to the south and it definitely wasn't back there. He told me again what an idiot I was and stormed back up the trail to the north.
There was about an hour of good light left. I assume he came all the way from Clingman's Dome, so I don't know how he made it back, but since I didn't find him dead along the trail the next day, I guess he did. A wholly strange encounter.
QHShowoman
10-09-2013, 17:06
Same thing happens in Shenandoah. I wish I had a dollar for every tourist I've seen trying to scramble up switchbacks in flip flops or cotton clothes like you'd wear to someone's backyard picnic.
But then there are always people who surprise the crap out of me. I was at Sky Meadows not too long ago, hiking SB on the AT and had just entered back onto park property and stopped to get out a snack and a woman in a skirt AND flip flops -- with no map, water, etc. -- came out of nowhere from behind me, trucked on past me, and headed in the direction of park HQ. She didn't even look the least bit exerted. My expression clearly said "***???"
Odd Man Out
10-09-2013, 17:12
I spent last weekend in NYC visiting a friend. She met us at the airport and helped us negotiate the bus and rail system to get downtown. I might be able to find Katahdin from Springer, but I admit I felt clueless on NYC public transport. It goes both ways.
Me, too. Harriman is really confusing, and some of the signposts look like the ones in Alice and Wonderland. I once saw an entire class of primary school kids from nyc and their teachers heading the wrong way down a trail. I explained that it was the Appalachian Trail, and if they continued in that direction they'd eventually get to Georgia, not back to their bus. "Georgia???" they exclaimed. "We ain't goin' to no Georgia".
Reading some of these stories, brings up issues I have as a new hiker. I know I'm not as dumb as a lot of the folks you guys have run into here. But, being new at this, I realize that I could get out there and find I've neglected something important, that an experienced hiker would have thought of. My 1st hike was supposed to be an easy 10 miler, I thought...but, once I got out there, part of the trail was hard to find, and I found myself not sure if I was where I was supposed to be, with less water than I would have liked to have, in the hot part of the day, walking on very cramped legs.... I've learned that this can get real serious, and I hope that luck stays with me till I have gained the knowledge that only comes from experience...
I've been section-hiking the AT for about 6-7 years now, and each time I get a little better at it. You can learn a lot from other hikers, but you probably learn the most from your mistakes. You learn to hike your own hike, too, and what works best for you may not work best for someone else.
hikerboy57
10-13-2013, 18:05
Me, too. Harriman is really confusing, and some of the signposts look like the ones in Alice and Wonderland.
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T.S.Kobzol
10-13-2013, 21:36
Two weeks ago I drive for 3 hours to a remote wilderness lake that was on my bucket list for a few years. I unload everything and start stuffing it into my kayak, then I go to grab my food bag from the trunk and guess what? ;-) Left it on the porch at home.
My car, however is an amazing cave of outdoors stuff and I manage to find one mountain house dinner and one ramen soup. Figure if I skipped lunch and had the mountain house for dinner and the rame, for breakfast might get me through the 90 minutes of paddling return trip.
So that's what I did. Paddled to an island camp site and instead further exploration I conserved energy...took a nap on the beach, read my kindle, took another nap, listened to my pocket radio and repeated until it was dark and until I got tired to fall asleep.
Made it back the next day through dense fog and at lunch in the civilized world. :)
Bumblebee Tuna
T.S.Kobzol
10-13-2013, 21:37
Two weeks ago I drive for 3 hours to a remote wilderness lake that was on my bucket list for a few years. I unload everything and start stuffing it into my kayak, then I go to grab my food bag from the trunk and guess what? ;-) Left it on the porch at home.
My car, however is an amazing cave of outdoors stuff and I manage to find one mountain house dinner and one ramen soup. Figure if I skipped lunch and had the mountain house for dinner and the rame, for breakfast might get me through the 90 minutes of paddling return trip.
So that's what I did. Paddled to an island camp site and instead further exploration I conserved energy...took a nap on the beach, read my kindle, took another nap, listened to my pocket radio and repeated until it was dark and until I got tired to fall asleep.
Made it back the next day through dense fog and at lunch in the civilized world. :)
Bumblebee Tuna
T.S.Kobzol
10-13-2013, 21:38
Sorry for the double post
Bumblebee Tuna