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Dances with Mice
08-16-2005, 23:59
I'm kind of an industrial forensic chemist. Or forensic industrial chemist, whatever. I used to work in a forensic lab, now I do the same thing for a Fortune 400 (...but dropping rapidly...) company only now nobody goes to jail. Well, usually.

Anyway, I receive a sample from one of our tech support reps serving hospitals. One of our products was in contact with a surgical instrument (think of something like a scapel) and the instrument had a hazy film on it. Hazy films on surgical stuff equals bad news for our product, you dig? So a couple of scientific tests later (think "CSI" but for real) and I'm sure the film is some sort of carbohydrate - could be starch, could be glucose, can't tell for sure because unlike CSI this IS for real. The good news is our product doesn't contain either so we're off the hook. Still, it'd be nice to narrow down the source of contamination on the instrument so the hospital could eliminate it and our (think 'my') analysis credibility would be enhanced.

So, how to tell glucose from starch on a really thin film on a little bitty sample? If we had a bunch of sample it'd be no problem. Hell, if we were CSI it'd be no problem. But we don't and we're not so it's a problem.

But a couple years ago I made a dry camp on top of Sassafrass Mountain in Georgia. I'd hauled my water from the stream at Hawk Mtn and I didn't feel comfortable about the source - I've seen people washing dishes and soaking their feet there. So I treated it with iodine before I left. When I used the iodine water to make my supper I had purple potatoes! Iodine reacts to stain starch deep purple. Didn't affect the taste at all, I enjoyed my purple potato meal.

So I brought my bottle of Polar Pur to work, still filled with stream water from my last trip on the AT. So there's the sample under a microscope, a drop of the Polar Pur is carefully removed from the bottle with a micropipette (think 'eyedropper' only more expensive) and the iodine solution is carefully added to a portion of the hazy film on the instrument's surface. And it turns bright purple! Dude, that's STARCH!! Iodine doesn't affect sugars. SCORE!! Micrographs (photographs taken with a microscope) are developed of the result proving the results of the chemical reaction and sent to the hospital.

Polar Pur saves the day. And all thanks to that memorable purple potato meal on Sassafrass Mtn.











!

MisterSweetie
08-17-2005, 00:43
Ha, that's the best story today.

I'm a bit of a chemist myself, but not forensic. Just a bench chemist, lab rat type. :)

Deafsmart
08-17-2005, 06:00
Grew and harvested Russian Blue (http://69.36.167.227/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=R9D&Category_Code=EP&Product_Count=19) last year in Idaho. Secret is double-dig and yield could go into four-fold. Unfortunately there was a drought and continue this year. Snake River Region (Idaho Falls-Blackfoot-Pocatello-American Falls-Burley-Twin Falls-Boise) is now experience total 5+ years drought.

At any rate, scientific speaking, site like this which focus on ecology growing and environment research (http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/GROW-BIOINTENSIVE.html) will be perfect component to the very vision of Benton MacKaye's October 1921 article, An Appalachian Trail: A Project in Regional Planning. Food and Farm Camp, outlined a never-materialized visionary could comes into reality. This article in PDF is available for download at Appalachian Trail Conservancy (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.786749/k.D5F9/History.htm).

For example, it will takes numerous of acres, new forests to act as buffer zone to clean ton of dirty airs around Great Smoky Mountains and along Appalachia region. What MacKaye's proposal of having Food and Farm Camp concept has something to do with future generations to come. Surrounding piedmonts suppose to protect our "greenway" between Georgia and Maine. Forestry, sustainable farming (cycle of perseverance to the soil), development of science labs, and several other air and land and water ethic practices in that sphere. While it has nothing to do with trail management and maintenance, Appalachia might not be around if we choose not to protect it. Native animals and reptiles as well plants are at stake; they will be gone tomorrow, one by one. So, please complete that vision.

Jack Tarlin
08-17-2005, 13:06
That's an interesting story.

Incidentaly, I've used Polar Pure on my last seven thru's, and it worked just great. If used correctly, I believe it is effective as Aqua Mira but a whole lot cheaper, as one bottle (which costs about 13 bucks) will last you an ENTIRE trip; Aqua Mira costs about that but will probably have to be replaced at least five or six times at least.

For folks not wanting (for whatever reason) to deal with filters and pumps, Polar Pure is a great alternative.

Dances with Mice
08-17-2005, 13:32
There IS an "e" in 'Polar Pure", isn't there? For some reason I though there wasn't.

I had to mail order my last bottle because REI in Atlanta won't stock it anymore. Apparently it's an ingredient in meth recipes.

MOWGLI
08-17-2005, 13:55
There IS an "e" in 'Polar Pure", isn't there? For some reason I though there wasn't.

I had to mail order my last bottle because REI in Atlanta won't stock it anymore. Apparently it's an ingredient in meth recipes.


There is no E in Polar Pur. At least not on my bottle. And while I can attest to the efficacy of the product, I would recommend that anyone contemplating long-term iodine use (ie: more than 1 month) consult with your physician first.

tlbj6142
08-17-2005, 14:56
If used correctly, I believe it is effective as Aqua MiraActually this is not true. In fact, in some scenarios Iodine is not effective at all. Check out the most recent "print" edition (June '05?) of BackpackingLight for details. Its a good read on chemical water treatments and their affects on biofilms.

So, why don't folks get sick if they use Iodine? Same reason why most folks who don't use any treatment don't get sick. There just aren't that many "bugs" in the wild.

Israel
08-17-2005, 21:50
that is a great story!!

So someone tell me why vitamin C makes the brown color of iodine treated water go away, as well as the bad taste! I usually carry a vitamin C tablet with me when using iodine , wait 15-20 minutes after treating it, and scrape just a few shavings of it into the water with my knife and shake it up- poof no bad taste and no brown water. Why is that??

neo
08-17-2005, 22:13
i have been section hiking the AT with the same bottle,since 2001

plus use it on other local trips:cool: neo

Dances with Mice
08-17-2005, 22:29
Iodine is an oxidizer. Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, is easily oxidized. When Vitamin C is mixed with iodine, the iodine is converted to iodide. Iodide is tasteless and it's also an essential mineral, as in iodized salt. Simultaneously the Vit C is oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid.

Vit C is so easily oxidized that an ancient method for determining Vitamin C content in fruit juice was to mix starch in the juice then titrate with a known concentration of Iodine. The vitamin would oxidize first, converting all the iodine until the vitamin was exhausted then the next drop of iodine would react with the starch and the solution would immediately turn dark. Now wet chemistry labs are full of HPLC-Mass Specs and I can't remember the last time I saw anyone do a titration. It's been years.

I've read somewhere that the oxidized ascorbic acid was still effective as a vitamin. Sounds plausible but I really don't know.

Israel
08-17-2005, 22:37
so for the chemically limited amonst us...what does all of what you said mean??! :D

Seriously, since the ascorbic acid is altering the iodine to iodide, doe that mean that the "bad" effects of drinking iodine treated water for extended periods are negated? Does doing this make the water healthier to thru-hikers in regards to the impacts of prolonged iodine use?

Thanks!

Dances with Mice
08-17-2005, 22:49
Seriously, since the ascorbic acid is altering the iodine to iodide, doe that mean that the "bad" effects of drinking iodine treated water for extended periods are negated? Does doing this make the water healthier to thru-hikers in regards to the impacts of prolonged iodine use?

I'm not a doctor, I don't even play one on the internet. Shouldn't stain your teeth as much. Outside of that, I dunno.

Groucho
08-17-2005, 23:25
Iodine and bleach have been studied an are not effective against many nasties.

Chlorine dioxide is effective. Is Aqua Mira? About 5 years ago on their website they stated that approval for Giardia treatment was pending. Last I checked they did not state that it was effective and did not state that approval was still pending. Why? As far as I know it is still approved for killing bacteria only. If you have other information post the source, please.

Jack Tarlin
08-18-2005, 12:32
No "E" in Polar Pure, Mowgli?

This might come as a surprise to the manufacturer.

see http://www.polarequipment.com

MOWGLI
08-18-2005, 12:34
No "E" in Polar Pure, Mowgli?

This might come as a surprise to the manufacturer.

see http://www.polarequipment.com

I stand corrected. Some of us make mistakes from time to time. :D